Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Fri, Oct 08, 2021 at 11:10:17AM +0200, Mario Torre wrote: > > RPMs. This is a hybrid packaging model, where some Java RPM packages > > can be built in the traditional way (where code is compiled during > > rpmbuild) and some are built elsewhere, and only wrapped in RPMs. > So the only thing

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

> Am 08.10.2021 um 14:11 schrieb Kevin Kofler via devel > : > > Mario Torre wrote: > >> On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 2:11 AM Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: >>> And that is actually a problem rather than a solution. Maven artifacts >>> are basically write once only. Everything depends on a hardcoded

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Wed, 2021-10-06 at 14:37 +0200, Mikolaj Izdebski wrote: > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:50 PM Matthew Miller < > mat...@fedoraproject.org> wrote: > > > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 03:09:08PM +0200, Mario Torre wrote: > > > I'm not sure what's the best solution, but I guess the number one > > > reason

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

> Am 08.10.2021 um 14:08 schrieb Kevin Kofler via devel > : > > Peter Boy wrote: >> A valid point, but only in case the app that consumes the maven artefact >> in unmaintained. > > Many applications are maintained and never (or very rarely, only when they > encounter some issue with the

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

Mario Torre wrote: > On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 2:11 AM Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: >> And that is actually a problem rather than a solution. Maven artifacts >> are basically write once only. Everything depends on a hardcoded version >> which, once uploaded, is normally never touched again. This

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

Peter Boy wrote: > A valid point, but only in case the app that consumes the maven artefact > in unmaintained. Many applications are maintained and never (or very rarely, only when they encounter some issue with the version they currently use) bother bumping their dependencies after adding them

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 2:11 AM Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: > > Michal Srb wrote: > > Unlike RPM repositories, Maven repositories can easily hold multiple > > versions of libraries. Once a JAR is built, the resulting bytecode will > > work with current and future JVMs. There is no need to

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 2:39 PM Mikolaj Izdebski wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:50 PM Matthew Miller > wrote: > > > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 03:09:08PM +0200, Mario Torre wrote: > > > I'm not sure what's the best solution, but I guess the number one > > > reason to have packages within the

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 10:20 PM Peter Boy wrote: > > > > > Am 04.10.2021 um 21:08 schrieb Fabio Valentini : > > > > > > But then you're back to *exactly how Fedora packages for Java projects > > already work* - only with the added complication that distributing > > those build artifacts as plain

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

> Am 06.10.2021 um 14:37 schrieb Mikolaj Izdebski : > > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:50 PM Matthew Miller > wrote: >> >> On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 03:09:08PM +0200, Mario Torre wrote: >>> I'm not sure what's the best solution, but I guess the number one >>> reason to have packages within the

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

> Am 08.10.2021 um 02:06 schrieb Kevin Kofler via devel > : > > Michal Srb wrote: >> Unlike RPM repositories, Maven repositories can easily hold multiple >> versions of libraries. ... > > And that is actually a problem rather than a solution. Maven artifacts are > basically write once only.

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

Michal Srb wrote: > Unlike RPM repositories, Maven repositories can easily hold multiple > versions of libraries. Once a JAR is built, the resulting bytecode will > work with current and future JVMs. There is no need to mass-rebuild JARs > every 6 months. And there is certainly no need to try to

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

> Am 06.10.2021 um 17:04 schrieb Mikolaj Izdebski : > > On Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 1:27 PM Peter Boy wrote: >> >> >> >>> Am 04.10.2021 um 15:29 schrieb Mikolaj Izdebski : >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 2:08 PM Peter Boy wrote: However, we lack concepts on how to proceed after removing

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 1:27 PM Peter Boy wrote: > > > > > Am 04.10.2021 um 15:29 schrieb Mikolaj Izdebski : > > > > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 2:08 PM Peter Boy wrote: > >> However, we lack concepts on how to proceed after removing java-maint-sig. > >> What consequences do we draw from the

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Wed, Oct 06, 2021 at 07:08:46AM +0200, Michal Srb wrote: > @Matthew Miller Are you still trying to save Fedora > from packaging the ocean? :) Oh, you remember. Yes. :) Let's do what we do really well, really well, and not do things where we're fighting against 99.% of all actual use both

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:50 PM Matthew Miller wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 03:09:08PM +0200, Mario Torre wrote: > > I'm not sure what's the best solution, but I guess the number one > > reason to have packages within the Fedora distribution is for a matter > > of trust, if this is the case

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 at 11:02, Peter Boy wrote: > > > > Am 06.10.2021 um 07:08 schrieb Michal Srb : > > Hi folks, > > @Matthew Miller Are you still trying to save Fedora from packaging the ocean? > :) > > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 9:10 PM Fabio Valentini wrote: > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:49 PM

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

> Am 06.10.2021 um 07:08 schrieb Michal Srb >: > > Hi folks, > > @Matthew Miller Are you still trying to save Fedora from packaging the ocean? > :) > > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 9:10 PM Fabio Valentini wrote: > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:49 PM Matthew Miller > wrote:

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On 29. 09. 21 13:49, Miro Hrončok wrote: On 26. 09. 21 21:20, Fabio Valentini wrote: Should the @java-maint-sig group be removed from any packages it is still associated with? Should it be dissolved, and members be removed? Should the remaining ruins that used to be packages be orphaned?

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

Dne 06. 10. 21 v 7:08 Michal Srb napsal(a): Hi folks, @Matthew Miller Are you still trying to save Fedora from packaging the ocean? :) On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 9:10 PM Fabio Valentini wrote: On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:49 PM Matthew Miller wrote: >

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

Hi folks, @Matthew Miller Are you still trying to save Fedora from packaging the ocean? :) On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 9:10 PM Fabio Valentini wrote: > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:49 PM Matthew Miller > wrote: > > > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 03:09:08PM +0200, Mario Torre wrote: > > > I'm not sure

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Mon, Oct 4, 2021, at 3:08 PM, Fabio Valentini wrote: > But then you're back to *exactly how Fedora packages for Java projects > already work* - only with the added complication that distributing > those build artifacts as plain JARs instead of RPMs now makes them > impossible to consume as

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

> Am 04.10.2021 um 21:08 schrieb Fabio Valentini : > > > But then you're back to *exactly how Fedora packages for Java projects > already work* - only with the added complication that distributing > those build artifacts as plain JARs instead of RPMs now makes them > impossible to consume as

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Tue, 5 Oct 2021 at 12:08, Peter Boy wrote: > > > > Am 04.10.2021 um 15:07 schrieb Mat Booth : > > Like many Open Source projects, Fedora is a "do-ocracy“ — …. > > A nice phrase with a decent connotation. And it’s true without doubt. > > And at the same time it is also true, Fedora as many

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

> Am 05.10.2021 um 14:56 schrieb Stephen Snow : > > Hello, > > (snip) > > So are the meetings being held with the java-sig? When are they? All of > us interested java community members should attend I think if we want > to offer an opinion or even just have something to say. If you search

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

> (snip) > You also need people who are good at documentation which frankly many > developers are not. Be it a history of 'the only true documentation > is > the code' to 'look its simple why didn't you just no one would think of and impossible to document without knowing why > it was chosen or

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

Hello, (snip) > However, we lack concepts on how to proceed after removing java- > maint-sig. What consequences do we draw from the analyses? > > Emmanuel Seyman has made some suggestions, about 16 posts back.  > Thoughts on those? I posted on the java list some ideas some time ago >

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Tue, 5 Oct 2021 at 07:26, Peter Boy wrote: > > > > > Am 04.10.2021 um 15:29 schrieb Mikolaj Izdebski : > > > > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 2:08 PM Peter Boy wrote: > >> However, we lack concepts on how to proceed after removing java-maint-sig. > >> What consequences do we draw from the analyses?

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

> Am 04.10.2021 um 15:29 schrieb Mikolaj Izdebski : > > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 2:08 PM Peter Boy wrote: >> However, we lack concepts on how to proceed after removing java-maint-sig. >> What consequences do we draw from the analyses? > > … If you want > to improve docs, just do it. And so on.

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

> Am 04.10.2021 um 15:07 schrieb Mat Booth : > > Like many Open Source projects, Fedora is a "do-ocracy“ — …. A nice phrase with a decent connotation. And it’s true without doubt. And at the same time it is also true, Fedora as many other Open Source projects is as well about coordination

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:49 PM Matthew Miller wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 03:09:08PM +0200, Mario Torre wrote: > > I'm not sure what's the best solution, but I guess the number one > > reason to have packages within the Fedora distribution is for a matter > > of trust, if this is the case

Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 03:09:08PM +0200, Mario Torre wrote: > I'm not sure what's the best solution, but I guess the number one > reason to have packages within the Fedora distribution is for a matter > of trust, if this is the case I would argue that a curated list of > maven packages served via

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

Hello, I'm not a Fedora Maintainer, or packager, or developer. I was involved more in marketing and more "people person"[1] stuff. I hope this can close this thread. This email has a specific goal, but it doesn't have a great title: For starters, SIG can't die, because they aren't alive. Also

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 3:08 PM Mat Booth wrote: > > On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 at 13:07, Peter Boy wrote: > > > > We had a spirited and detailed discussion so far. But nevertheless, I > > think we are none the wiser at the moment. We have many informative > > contributions to the discussion and

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 2:08 PM Peter Boy wrote: > However, we lack concepts on how to proceed after removing java-maint-sig. > What consequences do we draw from the analyses? The java-maint-sig formal group ceased to exist. Java SIG continues to exist as an informal group, in the shape it

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 at 13:07, Peter Boy wrote: > > We had a spirited and detailed discussion so far. But nevertheless, I think > we are none the wiser at the moment. We have many informative contributions > to the discussion and analyses of the situation. > > However, we lack concepts on how to

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

We had a spirited and detailed discussion so far. But nevertheless, I think we are none the wiser at the moment. We have many informative contributions to the discussion and analyses of the situation. However, we lack concepts on how to proceed after removing java-maint-sig. What

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 02:40:18PM -0400, Demi Marie Obenour wrote: > That said, I am also unsure if anyone is using those bindings. Why were they > added originally? I think probably for oVirt, but oVirt now only uses the virt-* tools (ie. command line). Rich. -- Richard Jones,

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Wed, 29 Sept 2021 at 18:49, Emmanuel Seyman wrote: > > As an aside, I'm somewhat surprised that the only commit on the Java > SIG's main wiki page in nearly 4 years is one that simply fixes a > spelling mistake. This doesn't jive with the amount of discussion we've > had on this list nor

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 09:35:23AM -0400, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > In the end, we have never been able to keep a pool of people > interested in making Java work. We aren't the only ones as this > problem occurs in Debian also (and it occurs in other languages like > Ruby, JS, Python also).

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 12:13 PM Fabio Valentini wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 11:17 AM Mikolaj Izdebski wrote: > > > > On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 1:51 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > > > Since the @java-maint-sig group is esentially non-responsive, I suggest > > > we do > > > the following: > > >

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 11:17 AM Mikolaj Izdebski wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 1:51 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > > Since the @java-maint-sig group is esentially non-responsive, I suggest we > > do > > the following: > > Thanks for making this distinction - @java-maint-sig group is not the >

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 1:51 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > Since the @java-maint-sig group is esentially non-responsive, I suggest we do > the following: Thanks for making this distinction - @java-maint-sig group is not the same as Java SIG. Some of the most active members of Java SIG (like me or

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 4:06 PM PGNet Dev wrote: > > Many valid/interesting points being made. Most of them sound, reasonably, > like developer-/maintainer-centric issues. > > Question: Is a primary goal of Fedora distro (JAVA sig, etc) to 'service' its > (java app) users? There is no single

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 1:25 AM Mat Booth wrote: > > On Wed, 29 Sept 2021 at 23:48, Emmanuel Seyman wrote: > > On that topic, I've just read an interview of Nicolas Lécureuil, the > > president of the Mageia board, in which he says that Mageia's Java stack > > is based on Fedora's and that he

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

Neal Gompa writes: >> >> On that topic, I've just read an interview of Nicolas Lécureuil, the >> president of the Mageia board, in which he says that Mageia's Java stack >> is based on Fedora's and that he interacts with Fedora's Java team >> (leading me to wonder who exactly he is interacting

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On 9/28/21 8:41 AM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > On Tue, 28 Sept 2021 at 08:20, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: >> >> On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 02:06:58PM +0200, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: >>> Richard W.M. Jones wrote: OCaml library code can in principle be dynamically linked, eg: $

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

Robert Marcano via devel wrote: > Even in the case of SCM repositories committed binaries, allowing > bundling would help a lot, Well, we cannot allow just using the bundled binaries! There are various technical and legal concerns that make this a no go. But: > add some kind of automation that

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > I think Kevin's comment is meant more towards the way the language > packages itself versus the rpm packaging of the language. Going from > Kevin's comments on languages over the years, a 'good' language should > not require such sort of rebuilding. The OCaml

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Thu, 30 Sept 2021 at 00:23, Mat Booth wrote: > > On Wed, 29 Sept 2021 at 23:48, Emmanuel Seyman wrote: > > > > * Peter Boy [29/09/2021 23:29] : > > > > > > Any ideas to get it started to fly? > > > > The first step should be to empty the group in FAS and remove its > > bugzilla account from

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Wed, 29 Sept 2021 at 23:48, Emmanuel Seyman wrote: > > * Peter Boy [29/09/2021 23:29] : > > > > Any ideas to get it started to fly? > > The first step should be to empty the group in FAS and remove its > bugzilla account from component ownership in Bugzilla (I happen > to think that this is

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 6:48 PM Emmanuel Seyman wrote: > > * Peter Boy [29/09/2021 23:29] : > > > > Any ideas to get it started to fly? > > The first step should be to empty the group in FAS and remove its > bugzilla account from component ownership in Bugzilla (I happen > to think that this is

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

* Peter Boy [29/09/2021 23:29] : > > Any ideas to get it started to fly? The first step should be to empty the group in FAS and remove its bugzilla account from component ownership in Bugzilla (I happen to think that this is not a good idea in general but it's even worse when the group has no

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

> Am 29.09.2021 um 22:13 schrieb Karlis K. : > > This: > https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=Fedora-Java-Rough-Shape > > Brought my attention, what can be done to help? I take it as a question how to contribute to Fedora Java. In the end, I guess, we will need to find a group

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

> Am 29.09.2021 um 13:57 schrieb Fabio Valentini : > > On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 1:49 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: >> >> On 26. 09. 21 21:20, Fabio Valentini wrote: >>> Should the @java-maint-sig group be removed from any packages it is >>> still associated with? Should it be dissolved, and members be

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

This: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item=Fedora-Java-Rough-Shape Brought my attention, what can be done to help? ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

> Am 29.09.2021 um 13:49 schrieb Miro Hrončok : > > Since many have moved this discussion away from this question, let me please > bring back the main reason this was posted. > > Since the @java-maint-sig group is esentially non-responsive, I suggest we do > the following: > > > 1) We

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 1:49 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > > On 26. 09. 21 21:20, Fabio Valentini wrote: > > Should the @java-maint-sig group be removed from any packages it is > > still associated with? Should it be dissolved, and members be removed? > > Should the remaining ruins that used to be

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 2:50 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 26. 09. 21 21:20, Fabio Valentini wrote: > > Should the @java-maint-sig group be removed from any packages it is > > still associated with? Should it be dissolved, and members be removed? > > Should the remaining ruins that used to be

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On 26. 09. 21 21:20, Fabio Valentini wrote: Should the @java-maint-sig group be removed from any packages it is still associated with? Should it be dissolved, and members be removed? Should the remaining ruins that used to be packages be orphaned? Retired? Buried? Forgotten? Since many have

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 04:33:39PM +0200, Fabio Valentini wrote: > But as you guessed, there's no such support for gradle, sbt, bazel, or > whatever new build system Google has been cooking up recently. Nor is > there support for Groovy (no longer available in Fedora, as it > depended on gradle),

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On 9/27/21 8:31 AM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 12:15:32PM +0100, Mat Booth wrote: >> On Mon, 27 Sept 2021 at 12:07, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: >>> >>> A question about this which is semi-related to your email. >>> >>> For some C library packages we have Java bindings, eg:

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

> Yeah, there's good tooling support for packaging software that uses > ant and maven. > And ant and maven themselves will also continue to be maintained by > Mikolaj, as far as I know. > Projects that use "pure" ant or maven to handle their dependencies and > build are *very easy* to package for

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 9:09 PM Florian Weimer wrote: > > * Christopher: > > > My main point here was that treating the community as a single SIG > > makes no more sense than treating all packages whose software is > > written in C as a single "C SIG" community. It's too overwhelming for > >

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 2:26 PM Robert Marcano via devel wrote: > > On 9/27/21 7:54 PM, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: > > Robert Marcano via devel wrote: > >> I think the only way the Java ecosystem to survive in Fedora outside of > >> OpenJDK and some core components is to allow bundling (Even

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Tue, 28 Sept 2021 at 08:20, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 02:06:58PM +0200, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: > > Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > > OCaml library code can in principle be dynamically linked, eg: > > > > > > $ rpm -ql ocaml-extlib | grep cmxs > > >

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On 9/27/21 7:54 PM, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: Robert Marcano via devel wrote: I think the only way the Java ecosystem to survive in Fedora outside of OpenJDK and some core components is to allow bundling (Even JavaScript bundling is already allowed), but how do to it without compromising

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 02:00:58PM +0200, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: > Florian Weimer wrote: > > Interesting. Could you provide an example of such a dynamically linked > > binary? > > OCaml is interesting in that it does not use standard ELF .so files, but its > own dynamic linking mechanism

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 02:06:58PM +0200, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: > Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > OCaml library code can in principle be dynamically linked, eg: > > > > $ rpm -ql ocaml-extlib | grep cmxs > > /usr/lib64/ocaml/extlib/extLib.cmxs > > $ file /usr/lib64/ocaml/extlib/extLib.cmxs

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > OCaml library code can in principle be dynamically linked, eg: > > $ rpm -ql ocaml-extlib | grep cmxs > /usr/lib64/ocaml/extlib/extLib.cmxs > $ file /usr/lib64/ocaml/extlib/extLib.cmxs > /usr/lib64/ocaml/extlib/extLib.cmxs: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, >

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

Florian Weimer wrote: > Interesting. Could you provide an example of such a dynamically linked > binary? OCaml is interesting in that it does not use standard ELF .so files, but its own dynamic linking mechanism (those .cma files). This is a typical OCaml library (the ocaml-facile constraint

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 01:42:44PM +0200, Florian Weimer wrote: > * Kevin Kofler via devel: > > > Florian Weimer wrote: > > > >> * Kevin Kofler via devel: > >> > >>> (And for the record, I also think that Go and Rust should not work > >>> that way either! It is possible to build shared libraries

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

* Kevin Kofler via devel: > Florian Weimer wrote: > >> * Kevin Kofler via devel: >> >>> (And for the record, I also think that Go and Rust should not work >>> that way either! It is possible to build shared libraries of Go code, >>> at least one Go toolchain supports it.) >> >> There is no

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

Florian Weimer wrote: > * Kevin Kofler via devel: > >> (And for the record, I also think that Go and Rust should not work >> that way either! It is possible to build shared libraries of Go code, >> at least one Go toolchain supports it.) > > There is no stable Go ABI. Even minor updates change

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

* Kevin Kofler via devel: > (And for the record, I also think that Go and Rust should not work > that way either! It is possible to build shared libraries of Go code, > at least one Go toolchain supports it.) There is no stable Go ABI. Even minor updates change ABI because type sizes and struct

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

Robert Marcano via devel wrote: > I think the only way the Java ecosystem to survive in Fedora outside of > OpenJDK and some core components is to allow bundling (Even JavaScript > bundling is already allowed), but how do to it without compromising > security? The problem is that Java projects

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > The bug above is a bit worrying though. I don't think anyone ever > tried to address those issues. I don't know enough to say if they're > real or nice to haves, but they seem serious. I have never seen any handwritten JNI code doing any of the things the bug wants

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

Am 27.09.21 um 15:09 schrieb Mario Torre: However the majority of people just usually download Eclipse (or IntelliJ for what matters) from the upstream website anyway, further suggesting that maintaining Eclipse is not really a rewarding nor useful task. Just my 2 ¢: Since I switched from

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

* Christopher: > My main point here was that treating the community as a single SIG > makes no more sense than treating all packages whose software is > written in C as a single "C SIG" community. It's too overwhelming for > people to be able to know how to step in and help. I'm not sure this is

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

Hi, "" I'm not sure what's the best solution, but I guess the number one reason to have packages within the Fedora distribution is for a matter of trust, if this is the case I would argue that a curated list of maven packages served via a Fedora managed repository would be a better investment. ""

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 8:52 AM Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > > On Sun, 26 Sept 2021 at 16:35, Christopher wrote: > > > > I think part of the problem is that Java is too big. There are too > > many libraries to fit into a single community. I think there's > > probably willing volunteers to

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, 27 Sept 2021 at 17:31, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 04:39:03PM +0100, Mat Booth wrote: > > On Mon, 27 Sept 2021 at 13:31, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1536762 > > > > > > so it might be more of a saga than just

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 04:39:03PM +0100, Mat Booth wrote: > On Mon, 27 Sept 2021 at 13:31, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1536762 > > > > so it might be more of a saga than just changing a few commands. > > > > Rich. > > Hi Rich, > > TBH it looks like

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

* Fabio Valentini: > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 1:07 PM Richard W.M. Jones wrote: >> >> A question about this which is semi-related to your email. >> >> For some C library packages we have Java bindings, eg: >> https://github.com/libguestfs/libguestfs/tree/master/java >> >> These have been disabled

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 5:23 PM Fabio Valentini wrote: > I'm not sure about this (the internals of Red Hat are quite opaque), > but as far as I know, are two different, non-overlapping teams > involved here: > One that maintains OpenJDK packages (which are fine), and one that > maintains Java

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, 27 Sept 2021 at 13:31, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 12:15:32PM +0100, Mat Booth wrote: > > On Mon, 27 Sept 2021 at 12:07, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > > > > > A question about this which is semi-related to your email. > > > > > > For some C library packages we

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

So if you only rely in things like OpenJDK (like for running Minecraft, as I do, too), then you'll be fine. If you need ant or maven, you should be fine too, since those two (and their dependencies) will continue to be maintained. But everything else ... *tumbleweeds* Just one user's snapshot;

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Martin Jackson wrote: > > For what it's worth... > > I use the OpenJDK on Fedora and I'm very happy with it. I do not use or > need eclipse, or as fast as I can tell, any of the other tooling (e.g. > packaged gradle and other things). My main uses are playing

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

For what it's worth... I use the OpenJDK on Fedora and I'm very happy with it.  I do not use or need eclipse, or as fast as I can tell, any of the other tooling (e.g. packaged gradle and other things).  My main uses are playing games that depend on Java and are packaged and built outside the

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 10:24:23AM -0400, Robert Marcano via devel wrote: > 1. I propose that every package should use a modern Java build system that > resolve dependencies (Maven, Gradle, Ant+Ivy, etc), If the package doesn't > have that, a patch should be provided and contributed upstream. Any

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On 9/26/21 3:20 PM, Fabio Valentini wrote: Good evening everybody, Not sure why it's me who's writing this message, but somebody needs to do it. Community maintenance of Java packages in Fedora is, for all intents and purposes, dead. Mikolaj keeps a bare minimum of packages working for the

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

Many valid/interesting points being made. Most of them sound, reasonably, like developer-/maintainer-centric issues. Question: Is a primary goal of Fedora distro (JAVA sig, etc) to 'service' its (java app) users? If so, what's the current understanding of a user-driven ProductRequirements

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, 27 Sept 2021 at 08:45, Peter Boy wrote: > > > > > Am 27.09.2021 um 12:30 schrieb Fabio Valentini : > > > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 12:19 PM Peter Boy wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>> Am 27.09.2021 um 11:13 schrieb Pierre-Yves Chibon : > >>> > >>> On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 10:57:12AM +0200,

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 10:36 PM Christopher wrote: > > I think part of the problem is that Java is too big. There are too > many libraries to fit into a single community. I think there's > probably willing volunteers to maintain some libraries and application > packages, but these are not

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Sun, 26 Sept 2021 at 16:35, Christopher wrote: > > I think part of the problem is that Java is too big. There are too > many libraries to fit into a single community. I think there's > probably willing volunteers to maintain some libraries and application > packages, but these are not

Re: Fedora  Java: The Death of Two SIGs

> Am 27.09.2021 um 12:30 schrieb Fabio Valentini : > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 12:19 PM Peter Boy wrote: >> >> >> >>> Am 27.09.2021 um 11:13 schrieb Pierre-Yves Chibon : >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 10:57:12AM +0200, Peter Boy wrote: >>> What do you want to gain from it?

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 12:15:32PM +0100, Mat Booth wrote: > On Mon, 27 Sept 2021 at 12:07, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > > > A question about this which is semi-related to your email. > > > > For some C library packages we have Java bindings, eg: > >

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

> I believe the only requirements are javac, javah, javadoc (optional) > and a JVM to run the tests on. Is it possible to keep this going, > or would that require a lot of work? +1 on this. Having just the minimum, core packages available in the repo would be good, especially since: a) It would

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, 27 Sept 2021 at 12:07, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > A question about this which is semi-related to your email. > > For some C library packages we have Java bindings, eg: > https://github.com/libguestfs/libguestfs/tree/master/java > > These have been disabled in Fedora for ~2 years, but

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 1:07 PM Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > A question about this which is semi-related to your email. > > For some C library packages we have Java bindings, eg: > https://github.com/libguestfs/libguestfs/tree/master/java > > These have been disabled in Fedora for ~2 years, but

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