Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On 4/7/20 1:27 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: The other piece of it is that there's a UX/psychological piece to it. If we call it .eln9.1.0, people are quite likely to skim over the 'n' and confuse themselves into thinking it's a RHEL 9.1.0 package. That way lies a support nightmare. We absolutely

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On 08. 04. 20 14:52, Nicolas Mailhot via devel wrote: Then use .el.9.dev. That should still order mostly fine .el9~dev would sort even better. -- Miro Hrončok -- Phone: +420777974800 IRC: mhroncok ___ devel mailing list --

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

Le mardi 07 avril 2020 à 14:27 -0400, Stephen Gallagher a écrit : > > The other piece of it is that there's a UX/psychological piece to it. > If we call it .eln9.1.0, people are quite likely to skim over the 'n' > and confuse themselves into thinking it's a RHEL 9.1.0 package. Then use

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

Dne 07. 04. 20 v 20:55 Stephen Gallagher napsal(a): > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:53 PM Stephen Gallagher > wrote: > > I've just published a fourth version[1] of the ELN proposal. With a > > lot of input from Miro Hrončok, I think I've finally been able to > > clarify some of the points that we

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

- Original Message - > From: "Stephen Gallagher" > To: devel-annou...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Sent: Monday, April 6, 2020 11:53:47 PM > Subject: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4 > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- &

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:53 PM Stephen Gallagher wrote: > I've just published a fourth version[1] of the ELN proposal. With a > lot of input from Miro Hrončok, I think I've finally been able to > clarify some of the points that we were getting hung

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:53 PM Stephen Gallagher wrote: > I've just published a fourth version[1] of the ELN proposal. With a > lot of input from Miro Hrončok, I think I've finally been able to > clarify some of the points that we were getting hung

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 2:49 PM James Cassell wrote: > eln9.100.0 makes the relation to RHEL cycle obvious without looking like a > RHEL tag. Is dot allowed here? Do we need eln9_100_1? The dots would be permissible here. That said, can you describe what value you see in having the RHEL cycle

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020, at 2:42 PM, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 2:27 PM Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 2:16 PM Neal Gompa wrote: > > > > > This definitely solves the issue I've been thinking of. I'm not sure I > > > > > understand why we want to disconnect

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 2:27 PM Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 2:16 PM Neal Gompa wrote: > > > > This definitely solves the issue I've been thinking of. I'm not sure I > > > > understand why we want to disconnect the ELN version from the upcoming > > > > RHEL version, even in

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 2:27 PM Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 2:16 PM Neal Gompa wrote: > > > > This definitely solves the issue I've been thinking of. I'm not sure I > > > > understand why we want to disconnect the ELN version from the upcoming > > > > RHEL version, even in

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 2:16 PM Neal Gompa wrote: > > > This definitely solves the issue I've been thinking of. I'm not sure I > > > understand why we want to disconnect the ELN version from the upcoming > > > RHEL version, even in the DistTag? It seems to be a weird hoop to > > > separate when we

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 2:11 PM Aleksandra Fedorova wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 7:55 PM Neal Gompa wrote: > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 1:50 PM Aleksandra Fedorova > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 1:13 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > > > > > > > > On 07. 04. 20

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 7:55 PM Neal Gompa wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 1:50 PM Aleksandra Fedorova wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 1:13 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > > > > > > On 07. 04. 20 12:18, Aleksandra Fedorova wrote: > > > >> What I'm confused about is the hangup with

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 2:02 PM Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 1:56 PM Neal Gompa wrote: > > This definitely solves the issue I've been thinking of. I'm not sure I > > understand why we want to disconnect the ELN version from the upcoming > > RHEL version, even in the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 1:56 PM Neal Gompa wrote: > This definitely solves the issue I've been thinking of. I'm not sure I > understand why we want to disconnect the ELN version from the upcoming > RHEL version, even in the DistTag? It seems to be a weird hoop to > separate when we all know this

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 1:50 PM Aleksandra Fedorova wrote: > > Hi, > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 1:13 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > > > > On 07. 04. 20 12:18, Aleksandra Fedorova wrote: > > >> What I'm confused about is the hangup with versioning the ELN tree. > > >> Why is this a problem? > > > I

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

Hi, On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 1:13 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > > On 07. 04. 20 12:18, Aleksandra Fedorova wrote: > >> What I'm confused about is the hangup with versioning the ELN tree. > >> Why is this a problem? > > I explained it in one of the previous threads: > > > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:10 AM Tom Hughes via devel wrote: > > On 06/04/2020 22:53, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > > Changes in this version of the proposal[2]: > > > > * Improve our explanation of why we are doing ELN in the first place > > I agree that the proposal is now a lot clearer and I

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 7:33 AM Petr Pisar wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 06, 2020 at 06:48:17PM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 6:22 PM Stephen Gallagher > > wrote: > > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 6:09 PM Neal Gompa wrote: > > >> I've personally been burned enough times by not having

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:46 AM Vít Ondruch wrote: ... > > * Added a section explaining how we will deal with side-tags > > > Thank you for addressing this. > > However, could you please elaborate what will be the actual trigger to > do rebuild of some package in ELN? It can't be `git push` if you

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On Mon, Apr 06, 2020 at 06:48:17PM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote: > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 6:22 PM Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 6:09 PM Neal Gompa wrote: > >> I've personally been burned enough times by not having versioned > >> DistTags for personal rebuilds that I would

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On 07. 04. 20 12:18, Aleksandra Fedorova wrote: What I'm confused about is the hangup with versioning the ELN tree. Why is this a problem? I explained it in one of the previous threads:

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

Hi, Neal, On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 12:49 AM Neal Gompa wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 6:22 PM Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 6:09 PM Neal Gompa wrote: > >> > >> * The DistTag should be versioned. Either .eln.elX (e.g. .eln.el9), > >> .elnX (e.g. .eln9), or

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On 07. 04. 20 10:09, Tom Hughes via devel wrote: That will mean that most %fedora conditions will need to be extended with a %rhel condition and that in many cases new features may silently not be enabled in ELN builds until that is manually discovered and the condition is amended which seems to 

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On 06/04/2020 22:53, Stephen Gallagher wrote: Changes in this version of the proposal[2]: * Improve our explanation of why we are doing ELN in the first place I agree that the proposal is now a lot clearer and I certainly see how it furthers the first goral of seeing how Fedora trunk comes

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

Dne 06. 04. 20 v 23:53 Stephen Gallagher napsal(a): > I've just published a fourth version[1] of the ELN proposal. With a > lot of input from Miro Hrončok, I think I've finally been able to > clarify some of the points that we were getting hung up on. > > Changes in this version of the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On 07. 04. 20 0:47, Justin Forbes wrote: On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:24 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: On 06. 04. 20 23:53, Stephen Gallagher wrote: * Clarify that the time limit on PRs is only for determining if the maintainer is responsive. If they reply, the timer is cleared. As a side note

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 6:22 PM Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 6:09 PM Neal Gompa wrote: >> >> * The DistTag should be versioned. Either .eln.elX (e.g. .eln.el9), >> .elnX (e.g. .eln9), or just plain .elX (e.g. .el9). >> * Likewise, I think the Koji tags should be

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:24 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > > On 06. 04. 20 23:53, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > * Clarify that the time limit on PRs is only for determining if the > > maintainer is responsive. If they reply, the timer is cleared. > > As a side note (probably out of scope of this

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On 06. 04. 20 23:53, Stephen Gallagher wrote: * Clarify that the time limit on PRs is only for determining if the maintainer is responsive. If they reply, the timer is cleared. As a side note (probably out of scope of this proposal), I think that if we have RHEL packages in Fedora with not

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 6:09 PM Neal Gompa wrote: > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:56 PM Stephen Gallagher > wrote: > > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA256 > > > > I've just published a fourth version[1] of the ELN proposal. With a > > lot of input from Miro Hrončok, I think I've

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On 07. 04. 20 0:08, Neal Gompa wrote: This version of the proposal is nearly perfect, in my view. There are a couple of things I think should change: * The DistTag should be versioned. Either .eln.elX (e.g. .eln.el9), .elnX (e.g. .eln9), or just plain .elX (e.g. .el9). The good thing is that

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:56 PM Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA256 > > I've just published a fourth version[1] of the ELN proposal. With a > lot of input from Miro Hrončok, I think I've finally been able to > clarify some of the points that we were

Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 I've just published a fourth version[1] of the ELN proposal. With a lot of input from Miro Hrončok, I think I've finally been able to clarify some of the points that we were getting hung up on. Changes in this version of the proposal[2]: * Improve

Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V4

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 I've just published a fourth version[1] of the ELN proposal. With a lot of input from Miro Hrončok, I think I've finally been able to clarify some of the points that we were getting hung up on. Changes in this version of the proposal[2]: * Improve

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 9:43 AM Charalampos Stratakis wrote: > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Michael Catanzaro" > > To: "Development discussions related to Fedora" > > > > Sent: Monday, April 6, 2020 3:37:34 PM >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On 06. 04. 20 15:37, Michael Catanzaro wrote: On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 5:08 pm, Charalampos Stratakis wrote: It is reasonable to provide a pull request to fix potential issues with ELN. What is not reasonable, is to impose a time limit and also expect the maintainers to follow up with that.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

- Original Message - > From: "Michael Catanzaro" > To: "Development discussions related to Fedora" > > Sent: Monday, April 6, 2020 3:37:34 PM > Subject: Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose > V3 > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 5:08 pm, Charalampos Stratakis wrote: It is reasonable to provide a pull request to fix potential issues with ELN. What is not reasonable, is to impose a time limit and also expect the maintainers to follow up with that. If allowing the ELN maintainers to fix build

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

- Original Message - > From: "Stephen Gallagher" > To: devel-annou...@lists.fedoraproject.org, "Development discussions related > to Fedora" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 5:31:38 PM > Subject: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Bu

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 8:32 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: ... > >> For the stated reasons I am *-1 for this change in its current form*. > > > > That is your privilege as a member of FESCo. As I've said, however, I > > think you've misunderstood the situation. > > Do you want to leave it at "this is

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Sat, Apr 4, 2020 at 8:31 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > > To clarify: In Fedora Core/Extras the separation was by access permissions. > Here > it is based on knowledge and interests (or a lack thereof). People with zero > knowledge and interest in "RHEL next" development will not be able to >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On 02. 04. 20 20:07, Stephen Gallagher wrote: On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 12:56 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: The change proposal received overly negative feedback by the packager community as represented both by RHEL¹ and non-RHEL maintainers. Despite being reworked several times, none of this feedback

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On 02. 04. 20 19:21, Aleksandra Fedorova wrote: While benefiting the entire Fedora/RHEL/CentOS/EPEL ecosystem is certainly a good goal, I believe that doing this in a way that alienates a significant part of our packagers is a disservice to Fedora. The concerned packagers believe that Fedora is

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On 2020-04-03 14:43, Aleksandra Fedorova wrote: On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 11:59 AM Petr Viktorin wrote: On 2020-04-02 20:07, Stephen Gallagher wrote: On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 12:56 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: The change proposal received overly negative feedback by the packager community as

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On 03. 04. 20 20:23, Stephen Gallagher wrote: Fabio Valenti made this comment in the FESCo ticket[1]. "Side note: I think more people would be amenable to including "conditionals" into their packages if they weren't only shown off as `%if eln this else that`. I think there's more value in doing

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 8:23 PM Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 1:27 PM Matthew Miller > wrote: > > > > On Thu, Apr 02, 2020 at 10:32:31PM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot via devel wrote: > > > Would it be possible to formalize the kind of spec processing ELN wants > > > available in

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 1:27 PM Matthew Miller wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 02, 2020 at 10:32:31PM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot via devel wrote: > > Would it be possible to formalize the kind of spec processing ELN wants > > available in a set of generic operations with generic arguments (or > > control

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Thu, Apr 02, 2020 at 10:32:31PM +0200, Nicolas Mailhot via devel wrote: > Would it be possible to formalize the kind of spec processing ELN wants > available in a set of generic operations with generic arguments (or > control variables)? > > I would not mind seeing a set of ELN macro calls in

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 11:59 AM Petr Viktorin wrote: > > On 2020-04-02 20:07, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 12:56 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > >> The change proposal received overly negative feedback by the packager > >> community > >> as represented both by RHEL¹ and non-RHEL

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On 2020-04-02 20:07, Stephen Gallagher wrote: On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 12:56 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: The change proposal received overly negative feedback by the packager community as represented both by RHEL¹ and non-RHEL maintainers. Despite being reworked several times, none of this feedback

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On 02. 04. 20 20:07, Stephen Gallagher wrote: This is a great example of the Nirvana Fallacy. Essentially, you are arguing that improvements for one group is not acceptable unless it improves things for every other group too. (I will answer the entire e-mail hopefully later today, but I could

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

Dne 03. 04. 20 v 10:46 Vít Ondruch napsal(a): > > > Dne 02. 04. 20 v 21:38 Kalev Lember napsal(a): >> On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 9:10 PM Stephen Gallagher > > wrote: >> >> And having to manually perform a sync between those packages for >> every >> update is

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

Dne 02. 04. 20 v 21:38 Kalev Lember napsal(a): > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 9:10 PM Stephen Gallagher > wrote: > > And having to manually perform a sync between those packages for every > update is somehow less work > There are two things: 1) Of course I don't

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Thu, Apr 02, 2020 at 03:56:05PM -0400, David Cantrell wrote: > On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 05:32:08PM +0200, Vít Ondruch wrote: > > Of course what can go into Rawhide should go into Rawhide, but that are > > not ELN/RHEL conditionals. > > I think this is part of what ELN is trying to address to

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

Le jeudi 02 avril 2020 à 16:04 -0400, David Cantrell a écrit : > > > * We could force all ELN builds to have epoch+100 when they rebuild > > (this has problems with future updates). > > No need to modify the Epoch. And not advisable. Wild idea (perhaps completely unworkable): upstream

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 03:55:19PM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:24 PM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 11:40:49AM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 6:46 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > wrote: > > > > On Wed, Apr

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 05:32:08PM +0200, Vít Ondruch wrote: Dne 01. 04. 20 v 16:01 David Cantrell napsal(a): On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 10:19:08AM +0200, Vít Ondruch wrote: So although this update clarifies some part, we have not moved anywhere: ~~~ === Can we do this in a branch instead of

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 9:10 PM Stephen Gallagher wrote: > And having to manually perform a sync between those packages for every > update is somehow less work than *checks notes* adding some > conditionals once and then letting it get pulled from the master > branch thereafter? I don't

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 2:07 pm, Stephen Gallagher wrote: We've collected the feedback in good faith, examined it and then identified shortcomings with it. For the sake of clarity in the Change Proposal, I've recorded that reasoning there. I don't have any comment on the overall proposal, I

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 3:02 PM Vít Ondruch wrote: > > > Dne 02. 04. 20 v 20:07 Stephen Gallagher napsal(a): > > but I *did* > > acknowledge that we are going to incorporate the possibility of > > maintaining separate specs for ELN and Rawhide for any maintainer who > > absolutely wants to do more

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

Dne 02. 04. 20 v 21:01 Vít Ondruch napsal(a): > Dne 02. 04. 20 v 20:07 Stephen Gallagher napsal(a): >> but I *did* >> acknowledge that we are going to incorporate the possibility of >> maintaining separate specs for ELN and Rawhide for any maintainer who >> absolutely wants to do more manual

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

Dne 02. 04. 20 v 17:39 Stephen Gallagher napsal(a): > On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 4:34 PM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > wrote: >> On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 03:55:19PM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: >>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:24 PM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek >>> wrote: >> I disagree, both to

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

Dne 02. 04. 20 v 20:07 Stephen Gallagher napsal(a): > but I *did* > acknowledge that we are going to incorporate the possibility of > maintaining separate specs for ELN and Rawhide for any maintainer who > absolutely wants to do more manual work. You see, this is precisely the point where the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 12:56 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > The change proposal received overly negative feedback by the packager > community > as represented both by RHEL¹ and non-RHEL maintainers. Despite being reworked > several times, none of this feedback was reflected in the proposal, only new >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Thu, Apr 02, 2020 at 07:21:33PM +0200, Aleksandra Fedorova wrote: > ELN is a tool to develop Fedora. Conditionals for ELN packages are going > to be applied in those places where it makes sense and where it is > approved by the Fedora packager. Yes, we believe that adding the > flexibility in

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

Hi, Miro, On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 6:56 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > > On 31. 03. 20 17:31, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > I sent out the V2 version of the Change on Friday and then promptly > > managed to injure myself and be away from email until today. I've read > > through the email threads again

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On 31. 03. 20 17:31, Stephen Gallagher wrote: I sent out the V2 version of the Change on Friday and then promptly managed to injure myself and be away from email until today. I've read through the email threads again this morning and I decided that, rather than try to address them one by one,

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 4:34 PM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 03:55:19PM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:24 PM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > > wrote: > I disagree, both to "aren't design documents" and to the usefulness of > providing

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 03:55:19PM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:24 PM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > wrote: > > > > On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 11:40:49AM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 6:46 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > > > wrote: > > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On 01. 04. 20 21:55, Stephen Gallagher wrote: Well, Change Proposals aren't design documents. I would prefer to change the document to read more like "This will need to be implemented in such a way that contents of the ELN repository would be preferred by the software management tools over the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 3:24 PM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 11:40:49AM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 6:46 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > > wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 12:30:13PM +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: > > > > On

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 11:40:49AM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 6:46 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > wrote: > > > > On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 12:30:13PM +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: > > > On 01. 04. 20 10:53, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > > >On Tue, Mar 31, 2020

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 10:02 AM David Cantrell wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 10:19:08AM +0200, Vít Ondruch wrote: > >So although this update clarifies some part, we have not moved anywhere: > > > > > >~~~ > > > >=== Can we do this in a branch instead of in master? === > > > >This adds no

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 6:46 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 12:30:13PM +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: > > On 01. 04. 20 10:53, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > >On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 11:31:38AM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > >>I sent out the V2 version

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

Dne 01. 04. 20 v 16:01 David Cantrell napsal(a): > On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 10:19:08AM +0200, Vít Ondruch wrote: >> So although this update clarifies some part, we have not moved anywhere: >> >> >> ~~~ >> >> === Can we do this in a branch instead of in master? === >> >> This adds no value to the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 10:19:08AM +0200, Vít Ondruch wrote: So although this update clarifies some part, we have not moved anywhere: ~~~ === Can we do this in a branch instead of in master? === This adds no value to the current approach where Red Hat maintainers would manually merge their

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

- Original Message - > From: "Vít Ondruch" > To: devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 10:19:08 AM > Subject: Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose > V3 > > So although this update clarifies some p

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 12:30:13PM +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 01. 04. 20 10:53, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > >On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 11:31:38AM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > >>I sent out the V2 version of the Change on Friday and then promptly > >>managed to injure myself and be

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 6:31 AM Miro Hrončok wrote: > > On 01. 04. 20 10:53, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 11:31:38AM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > >> I sent out the V2 version of the Change on Friday and then promptly > >> managed to injure myself and be away

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On 01. 04. 20 10:53, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 11:31:38AM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: I sent out the V2 version of the Change on Friday and then promptly managed to injure myself and be away from email until today. I've read through the email threads again

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 11:31:38AM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > I sent out the V2 version of the Change on Friday and then promptly > managed to injure myself and be away from email until today. I've read > through the email threads again this morning and I decided that, > rather than try to

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

So although this update clarifies some part, we have not moved anywhere: ~~~ === Can we do this in a branch instead of in master? === This adds no value to the current approach where Red Hat maintainers would manually merge their changes into the internal build infrastructure. There's no way

Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

I sent out the V2 version of the Change on Friday and then promptly managed to injure myself and be away from email until today. I've read through the email threads again this morning and I decided that, rather than try to address them one by one, I'd try again with a V3 that hopefully answers

Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V3

I sent out the V2 version of the Change on Friday and then promptly managed to injure myself and be away from email until today. I've read through the email threads again this morning and I decided that, rather than try to address them one by one, I'd try again with a V3 that hopefully answers

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose

Aleksandra Fedorova wrote: > The goal of the ELN project is to continuously build Fedora Rawhide > packages and composes in the way which resembles the CentOS and RHEL > build process and to provide a feedback loop for Fedora maintainers on > the status of those builds. I don't see why it would

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V2

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 08:10:30PM +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 30. 03. 20 18:35, Kevin Fenzi wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 01:13:03PM +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: > > > > > > I'm afraid that this won't be good enough. Other (Fedora) builds will be > > > submitted with lower prio as well.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V2

On 30. 03. 20 18:35, Kevin Fenzi wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 01:13:03PM +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: I'm afraid that this won't be good enough. Other (Fedora) builds will be submitted with lower prio as well. For example our Python 3.N+1 rebuilds are usually submitted as such, so the wave of

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V2

On 27. 03. 20 16:07, Stephen Gallagher wrote: Please see the newly-updated https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ELN_Buildroot_and_Compose for more details[1]. Assume I have the following CI Test in Fedora: https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/python-setuptools/blob/master/f/tests/tests.yml

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V2

Petr Pisar writes: > On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 12:56:42AM +0100, clime wrote: > >> You can make a separate namespace for this in dist-git. It doesn't >> need to be a separate branch. That way, you won't be disturbing >> anyone elses space. > > A different name space means a different repository.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V2

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 01:13:03PM +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: > > I'm afraid that this won't be good enough. Other (Fedora) builds will be > submitted with lower prio as well. For example our Python 3.N+1 rebuilds are > usually submitted as such, so the wave of 3k packages doesn't block >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V2

On 3/30/20 2:33 PM, Petr Pisar wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 01:57:22PM +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: On 30. 03. 20 13:52, Petr Pisar wrote: If I undeestand the proposal correctly there there will be an ELN branch or a name space. But not by default. Only for those packages that reject the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V2

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 01:57:22PM +0200, Miro Hrončok wrote: > On 30. 03. 20 13:52, Petr Pisar wrote: > > If I undeestand the proposal correctly there there will be an ELN branch or > > a name space. But not by default. Only for those packages that reject the > > change in Fedora. > > I wonder

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V2

On 3/30/20 12:54 PM, Aleksandra Fedorova wrote: On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 11:11 AM Vít Ondruch wrote: It is kind of irony, that the ELN branch idea is still rejected. I've made several attempts to explain this decision. You are ignoring them. Therefore there will be PRs coming from Stephen's

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V2

On 30. 03. 20 13:52, Petr Pisar wrote: I'm more curious what will happen with the ELN branch once the change is merged into Fedora's master. Will the ELN branch be removed? Will the ELN branch be reset to Fedora's master indefinetely and automatically? Or will be stalled and once ELN maintainer

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V2

On 30. 03. 20 13:52, Petr Pisar wrote: If I undeestand the proposal correctly there there will be an ELN branch or a name space. But not by default. Only for those packages that reject the change in Fedora. I wonder where is this coming from, because that's exactly what we want and exactly

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V2

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 11:10:17AM +0200, Vít Ondruch wrote: > It is kind of irony, that the ELN branch idea is still rejected. > Therefore there will be PRs coming from Stephen's and Alexandra's (or > anybody else in ELN SIG) forks of packages, containing changes needed to > build some packages

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V2

Hi, On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 1:13 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: > > On 30. 03. 20 12:59, Aleksandra Fedorova wrote: > >> Put all the other feedback aside, if we actually decide that this change is > >> happening, can we not build ELN during the datacenter move [1], when Koji > >> will > >> have a very

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change Proposal: ELN Buildroot and Compose V2

On 30. 03. 20 12:59, Aleksandra Fedorova wrote: Put all the other feedback aside, if we actually decide that this change is happening, can we not build ELN during the datacenter move [1], when Koji will have a very limited capacity [2]? I think we should go with Kevin's suggestion and

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