Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

Thanks Chris for the follow up. I also wanted to go for OTC fonts, but both Akira Tagoh and Owen Taylor who are fonts rendering experts advised against switching this late in the cycle to the .ttc fonts in case there are any serious regressions for any apps (we are not aware of any yet but there

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 11:30 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Tue, 2018-04-10 at 08:27 -0400, Gerald Henriksen wrote: >> Shouldn't the priority be to make Fedora welcoming to all, and not to >> limiting the audience based on an artificial size limitation? > > This is

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

On Tue, 2018-04-10 at 08:27 -0400, Gerald Henriksen wrote: > On Tue, 10 Apr 2018 13:36:33 +0200, you wrote: > > > Tomasz Torcz ?? wrote: > > > While we at it, let's drop all latin fonts, too. Cyrillic should be > > > enable to cover most of the world's usage and is quite similar to basic > > >

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

On Tue, 10 Apr 2018 13:36:33 +0200, you wrote: >Tomasz Torcz ?? wrote: >> While we at it, let's drop all latin fonts, too. Cyrillic should be >> enable to cover most of the world's usage and is quite similar to basic >> latin. > >???! ;-) > >But more seriously, this is not a fair comparison.

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

Tomasz Torcz ️ wrote: > While we at it, let's drop all latin fonts, too. Cyrillic should be > enable to cover most of the world's usage and is quite similar to basic > latin. Нет! ;-) But more seriously, this is not a fair comparison. Latin fonts typically take less than 1 MiB (for a pure

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

Le 2018-04-10 02:11, Kevin Kofler a écrit : Jens-Ulrik Petersen wrote: Failing all this should we drop the Serif fonts for Japanese and Korean - but it seems unfair to single them out? So just drop ALL the CJK Serif fonts, Yes, there’s nothing unfair there, better a single working complete

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 06:27:10AM +0200, Tomasz Torcz ?️ wrote: > On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 02:11:40AM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: > > Jens-Ulrik Petersen wrote: > > > Failing all this should we drop the Serif fonts for Japanese and Korean - > > > but it seems unfair to single them out? > > > > So

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 02:11:40AM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Jens-Ulrik Petersen wrote: > > Failing all this should we drop the Serif fonts for Japanese and Korean - > > but it seems unfair to single them out? > > So just drop ALL the CJK Serif fonts, and also the monospace ones (CJK Sans >

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 9:11 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: > And IMHO the KDE and LXQt Spins should revert to shipping only > wqy-microhei-fonts and no other CJK fonts. They never promised CJK support > beyond "we can bring up SOME rendering for every character of the typical >

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

Jens-Ulrik Petersen wrote: > Failing all this should we drop the Serif fonts for Japanese and Korean - > but it seems unfair to single them out? So just drop ALL the CJK Serif fonts, and also the monospace ones (CJK Sans is essentially monospaced anyway), bringing us back to where we were in F26

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 7:35 PM, Nicolas Mailhot < nicolas.mail...@laposte.net> wrote: > Le vendredi 30 mars 2018 à 16:45 +0900, Akira TAGOH a écrit : > > The problem on this workaround is that we need an exception for > > packaging because the packaging guidelines mentions we must package > >

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

Le mercredi 04 avril 2018 à 17:23 +0200, Kevin Kofler a écrit : > Akira TAGOH wrote: > > And I also don't think we really > need > all 3 of Sans, Serif and Mono. Technically, those are three separate font families that happen to be more or less coordinated, and culling along font family lines

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

Akira TAGOH wrote: > of course if we can go ahead without any workaround on this, that would be > better though. FYI, the plan of the KDE SIG is to simply bump the target size of the image yet again. I do not like that approach, but I am not the one who decides (anymore – I used to de-facto

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

Sorry for late response. I somehow missed this mail. On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 7:35 PM, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > And the problem is not so much the exception to guidelines but why it > was written in the first place. > > Installing just part of a font family is

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

Le vendredi 30 mars 2018 à 16:45 +0900, Akira TAGOH a écrit : > > The problem on this workaround is that we need an exception for > packaging because the packaging guidelines mentions we must package > variants into the same (sub-)package for family[1] And the problem is not so much the

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

On Sat, 31 Mar 2018, 03:07 Chris Murphy, wrote: > On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 8:15 AM, Gerald Henriksen > wrote: > > > Consult the relevant experts, and based on their recommendations > > mandate a base set of fonts that provide a quality first

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 8:15 AM, Gerald Henriksen wrote: > Consult the relevant experts, and based on their recommendations > mandate a base set of fonts that provide a quality first experience > with Fedora for everyone regardless of where they live and what > language they

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

On Thu, 29 Mar 2018 22:37:12 +0200, you wrote: >The one thing that speaks for it is size: it is only ~4 MiB xz-compressed, >whereas a typical font for any single CJK language (which may or may not >have the same limited support as described above for the other 3 languages; >often, there are no

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 1:22 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Thu, 2018-03-29 at 16:12 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: > > wqy-microhei-fonts is very effective, but unfortunately it only covers > > Simplified Chinese and the syllabic parts of Japanese and Korean, not the >

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

Hi, Well, there should be things can be improved in the long term as some topics on the thread already raised and need to keep discussions, investigation and fixes as needed though, I'd suggest for quick workaround. that is to ship limited variants only and move other extra variants into

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 6:16 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Thu, 2018-03-29 at 17:29 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: >> Short version: >> I suggest setting the Live ISO size limit to 4GB (3.7GiB), and >> including whatever fonts the g11n folks think a global operating >>

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

On Thu, 2018-03-29 at 17:29 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: > Short version: > I suggest setting the Live ISO size limit to 4GB (3.7GiB), and > including whatever fonts the g11n folks think a global operating > system should have. Alternatively, have Latin and Global Live media > but I think the

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 5:29 PM, Chris Murphy wrote: > Short version: > I suggest setting the Live ISO size limit to 4GB (3.7GiB), and > including whatever fonts the g11n folks think a global operating > system should have. Alternatively, have Latin and Global Live media

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

Short version: I suggest setting the Live ISO size limit to 4GB (3.7GiB), and including whatever fonts the g11n folks think a global operating system should have. Alternatively, have Latin and Global Live media but I think the download savings having two separate media is probably outweighed by

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

On Thu, 2018-03-29 at 22:37 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Adam Williamson wrote: > > AIUI, this means it really only works for simplified Chinese users > > (which means, approximately, mainland China; other Chinese-speaking > > territories tend to use traditional Chinese). > > AIUI, WQY MicroHei

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

Adam Williamson wrote: > AIUI, this means it really only works for simplified Chinese users > (which means, approximately, mainland China; other Chinese-speaking > territories tend to use traditional Chinese). AIUI, WQY MicroHei actually tries to cover the traditional-only, Japanese-only or

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

It sounds like what we are doing is shipping the "regional subset" fonts for all 4 CJK scripts. I wonder if we would do better to ship one unified font - I believe that at least with the GNOME stack, the rendered results will be equivalent, since Pango+Harfbuzz should set appropriate 'locl' tags

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

On Thu, 2018-03-29 at 16:12 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: > wqy-microhei-fonts is very effective, but unfortunately it only covers > Simplified Chinese and the syllabic parts of Japanese and Korean, not the > Traditional Chinese, Japanese or Korean renderings of the CJK Unified > Ideographs.) AIUI,

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

On Thu, 2018-03-29 at 15:57 +, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 10:12 AM Kevin Kofler > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > we did more debugging on #fedora-kde (thanks in particular to lupinix) and > > we found what seems to be the primary source of the

Re: Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 10:12 AM Kevin Kofler wrote: > Hi, > > we did more debugging on #fedora-kde (thanks in particular to lupinix) and > we found what seems to be the primary source of the bloat: CJK fonts! > > CJK fonts are by far the largest of all fonts due to the

Unacceptable size increase to ALL live images in F28: Noto CJK Fonts

Hi, we did more debugging on #fedora-kde (thanks in particular to lupinix) and we found what seems to be the primary source of the bloat: CJK fonts! CJK fonts are by far the largest of all fonts due to the huge number of characters used in those languages. Up to Fedora 26, Fedora shipped 4 CJK