Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-25 Thread Aaron Kaplan
On Apr 23, 2008, at 1:25 AM, Joshua N Pritikin wrote: > By my judgment, I'm glad Richard Stallman isn't running OLPC. He would > have delayed the launch until we have a GPL'd replacement for the mesh > firmware. As it is now, we have a laptop which is more pure license- > wise > than any other l

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-25 Thread Ivan Krstić
After taking a few days to collect my thoughts about everything that's going on, I'll add my last message to this thread to encourage the community to continue to stand tall and proud: You did good, folks, and it was a pleasure and a privi

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-24 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 6:59 AM, Peter Krenesky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Edward Cherlin wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 6:09 PM, Tom Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:27

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-24 Thread david
On Thu, 24 Apr 2008, Peter Krenesky wrote: > the way they were talking most of those things would just be made into > top level apis. Things like "sharing" would be available to all > applications. > > If these functions are being made into apis then there is no benefit in > developing for sugar.

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-24 Thread Antoine van Gelder
On 22 Apr 2008, at 22:52, Aaron Konstam wrote: > How may developers want to shift to developing for an XP based, rather > than a sugar based , platform? How many developers want to shift to developing for a constructivist language, rather than having to make an agonizing choice between a w

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-24 Thread Peter Krenesky
Edward Cherlin wrote: > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 6:09 PM, Tom Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:27 AM, Torello Querci <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >>> > If is possible to use normal

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-24 Thread John Gilmore
> I fought long and hard to get the principle of free and open added to > the core principles of OLPC because I believe that (a) there is power > in freedom ... (b) there is efficiency in freedom ... . Not to mention that there's freedom in freedom. :-} One aspect of freedom that has gone unmen

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-23 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Joshua N Pritikin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think the key word is "Trojan Horse": > > "I believe the best educational tool is constructionism and the best > software development method is Open Source. In some cases those are best > achieved like the Trojan H

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-23 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 6:09 PM, Tom Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:27 AM, Torello Querci <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > If is possible to use normal windows application on top Su

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-23 Thread NoiseEHC
Michael Stone wrote: > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 05:37:08PM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: > >> I certainly don't know enough about Windows to be able to answer your >> question from the technical perspective. >> > > As a former Windows developer (using both proprietary APIs and Free > APIs), I

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-23 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 1:36 PM, Joshua N Pritikin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Once we close the > deal, we can deliver Sugar ... and before anybody figures out what is > going on, all the teachers and students will fall in love with Sugar + > GNU/Linux (Troy was destroyed; clearly, there is a

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-23 Thread Joshua N Pritikin
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 03:47:13AM +0200, Shikhar wrote: > In other words, "embrace, extend and extinguish" ;-) What goes around, comes around, no? -- Make April 15 just another day, visit http://fairtax.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.or

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-23 Thread Shikhar
> To spell it out, Windows + Sugar is the Trojan Horse. However, we are > "secretly" filling up the Trojan Horse with free software. In other > words, the free software community are the Greek warriors. The idea is > that slightly indiscriminate decision makers (the Trojans) will buy our > Tro

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-23 Thread Joshua N Pritikin
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 09:09:13PM -0400, Tom Hoffman wrote: > Given that this would make Sugar accessible to millions of children > around the world already using Windows, I can't see how this would be > a bad thing. On the other hand, I can't see how either OLPC or > Microsoft has much motivatio

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-23 Thread Tom Hoffman
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:40 PM, Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:27 AM, Torello Querci <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > If is possible to use normal windows application on top Sugar+Windows the > > educational project is broken because the developers what ne

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-23 Thread Michael Stone
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 05:37:08PM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: > I certainly don't know enough about Windows to be able to answer your > question from the technical perspective. As a former Windows developer (using both proprietary APIs and Free APIs), I'm very confident that the collaborative us

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-23 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Walter Bender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I certainly don't know enough about Windows to be able to answer your > question from the technical perspective. I do know that to launch an > effort to port to Windows will require resources above and beyond what > are

Re: [Fwd: Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.]

2008-04-23 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 9:12 AM, Aaron Konstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I would suggest that you don't really understand the reason for > supporting open source. No software running on top of XP, for example, > will free of the pressures form MS to do what they want you to do. And > what the

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-23 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:27 AM, Torello Querci <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > With a lot of friends we are create a legal association called "OLPC Italia" > to allow the Italian citizens to buy OLPC using G1G1. There currently is no G1G1. Do you mean GiveMany? My organization tried to buy from

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-23 Thread Walter Bender
I certainly don't know enough about Windows to be able to answer your question from the technical perspective. I do know that to launch an effort to port to Windows will require resources above and beyond what are currently available. Is that the best use of resources? There is an argue to suggest

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-23 Thread John Gilmore
> Considering the complete sentence, it is clear to me that this is a > case of the reporter being confused by technology. We all know that > Sugar could never run on Windows as well it as can run on Linux. The > laptop might run Windows or Linux or both, but not Sugar on Windows. Do "we all know"

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-23 Thread Seth Woodworth
Between Walter Bender, who practically lives at 1cc and has been part of the entire development, and NN, who by all accounts is rarely in his office at 1cc, I say that the SD was just an offshoot of the ASIC chip. Besides that's what what I've heard everyone else at OLPC say. NN also said that Wi

[Fwd: Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.]

2008-04-23 Thread Aaron Konstam
which up to now has been minimal. Forwarded Message From: Carol Lerche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: devel-list Subject: Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP. Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:28:46 -0700 The OLPC Association has done amazing things with limited resources and deserves to

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-23 Thread C. Scott Ananian
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Jonathan Corbet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Walter Bender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Second, regarding Microsoft, I agree that if it is to be an open > > platform, it should be open to everyone, including Microsoft. That > > said, it is somewhat revisionis

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-23 Thread Jonathan Corbet
Walter Bender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Second, regarding Microsoft, I agree that if it is to be an open > platform, it should be open to everyone, including Microsoft. That > said, it is somewhat revisionist to suggest that the SD card was added > on behalf of Microsoft Such statements certai

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-23 Thread Torello Querci
With a lot of friends we are create a legal association called "OLPC Italia" to allow the Italian citizens to buy OLPC using G1G1. For us the most important thing is the "Educational Project" but sell the XO with XP is not an educational project. We accept Sugar as core of the user interface b

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-23 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 11:41 PM, Sameer Verma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Walter Bender wrote: > > First of all, just to clear, Flash does run on the laptop: there is a > > choice of both the Adobe Flash player and the FOSS Flash player, > > Gnash. We opted to install the Gnash player by def

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Sameer Verma
Walter Bender wrote: > First of all, just to clear, Flash does run on the laptop: there is a > choice of both the Adobe Flash player and the FOSS Flash player, > Gnash. We opted to install the Gnash player by default. Many of the > problems people have with Flash are actually related to codecs rath

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread M. Edward (Ed) Borasky
Mitch Bradley wrote: > But in the steady > state, the > web is the high-order bit, sufficient to qualify as education in and of > itself. Well ... it *was* at one time -- a university library made up of electrons. But in my mind, that was long ago in a galaxy far away. Oh, sure, you can still

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Y . Sonoda
Hi all! This is Spiky, Japanese volunteer. Reading through whole the discussion on Suger v.s. Windows, (or whatever) what I'm so afraid of is there's no discussion from the aspect of the very root principle of OLPC, that is, "Learning learning" or constructionism theory with which OLPC is fundame

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Y . Sonoda
> I believe Sugar was, is, and will be the greatest effort along with > OLPC principles, and constructionism point of view, > Etoys and other current activities on Sugar play very important > roles on it. This idea soon drives the simple conclusion that > Windows itself doesn't have to do with our

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Michael Stone
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 12:44:43AM +0200, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote: > The big problem is that most people see this as a Linux+Sugar vs. > Windows decision. Presently, I'm not very concerned by the role that Windows plays in OLPC's aims -- there's plenty of stuff to learn from and through Wind

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread C. Scott Ananian
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 9:41 PM, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 23.04.2008 03:09, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > In theory, mesh networking is a feature of the wireless firmware and > should work fine regardless of operating system choice. In practice, this is manifestly not t

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
On 23.04.2008 03:09, C. Scott Ananian wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 8:58 PM, Mitch Bradley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> The laptops are even more wonderful with a child-friendly UI, loads of fun >> activities, and a non-proprietary software stack. But in the steady >> state, the >> we

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 2:29 PM, Ivan Krstić <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Apr 22, 2008, at 5:25 PM, Edward Cherlin wrote: > > > > > Who says Negroponte is shifting? Certainly not Walter in any of his > > public posts. Can't happen. We would all be out of here like a shot to > fork Sugar. Nichola

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Mitch Bradley
Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos wrote: > Mitch Bradley wrote: >> No, I'm saying that giving laptops to all the world's children is a >> Good Thing, >> and worthy of being called an "education project", even if they don't >> have the >> world's friendliest UI or free software. And the reason for that

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread C. Scott Ananian
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 8:58 PM, Mitch Bradley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The laptops are even more wonderful with a child-friendly UI, loads of fun > activities, and a non-proprietary software stack. But in the steady > state, the > web is the high-order bit, sufficient to qualify as educat

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Polychronis Ypodimatopoulos
Mitch Bradley wrote: > No, I'm saying that giving laptops to all the world's children is a Good > Thing, > and worthy of being called an "education project", even if they don't > have the > world's friendliest UI or free software. And the reason for that is because > the web is so immensely valu

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Mitch Bradley
No, I'm saying that giving laptops to all the world's children is a Good Thing, and worthy of being called an "education project", even if they don't have the world's friendliest UI or free software. And the reason for that is because the web is so immensely valuable. The laptops are even more

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Andres Salomon
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:28:20 -1000 Mitch Bradley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > > Suppose, as a thought experiment, that someone were to propose giving > every child in the world > a device that could do nothing but access the web. Would you consider > that a positive > educational step? >

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Sameer Verma
Mitch Bradley wrote: > I know quite a few children in the US who benefit from laptops running a > proprietary stack. > > Web access is the core capability that transforms the computer from a > convenience to a near necessity. > > Before the web, most people in developed countries had computers at

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Mitch Bradley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Suppose, as a thought experiment, that someone were to propose giving > every child in the world > a device that could do nothing but access the web. Would you consider > that a positive > educational step? It would

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Walter Bender
I am not sure what you are driving at Mitch: web browsers are available to fundamentalists of both camps. Are you suggesting that a proprietary browser will reach more children more quickly? -walter On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 8:28 PM, Mitch Bradley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I know quite a few

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Mitch Bradley
I know quite a few children in the US who benefit from laptops running a proprietary stack. Web access is the core capability that transforms the computer from a convenience to a near necessity. Before the web, most people in developed countries had computers at work for doing "Office" stuff,

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Joshua N Pritikin
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 08:00:06PM -0400, Andres Salomon wrote: > On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:25:12 -0700 > Joshua N Pritikin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > At least Ivan quoted this part properly: "Negroponte said he was mainly > > concerned with putting as many laptops as possible in children's hands

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Andres Salomon
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:25:12 -0700 Joshua N Pritikin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 05:29:58PM -0400, Ivan Krstić wrote: > > "Eventually, Negroponte added, Windows might be the sole operating > > system ... Negroponte said he was mainly concerned with putting as > > many

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Walter Bender
First of all, just to clear, Flash does run on the laptop: there is a choice of both the Adobe Flash player and the FOSS Flash player, Gnash. We opted to install the Gnash player by default. Many of the problems people have with Flash are actually related to codecs rather than the player itself. We

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Joshua N Pritikin
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 07:29:22PM -0400, Ivan Krstić wrote: > On Apr 22, 2008, at 7:25 PM, Joshua N Pritikin wrote: >> The laptop might run Windows or Linux or both, but not Sugar on >> Windows. > > That's not accurate. Care to elaborate? Suppose Sugar was running on Windows. What's the benefi

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Ivan Krstić
On Apr 22, 2008, at 7:25 PM, Joshua N Pritikin wrote: > The laptop might run Windows or Linux or both, but not Sugar on > Windows. That's not accurate. -- Ivan Krstić <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | http://radian.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.o

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Joshua N Pritikin
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 05:29:58PM -0400, Ivan Krstić wrote: > "Eventually, Negroponte added, Windows might be the sole operating > system ... Negroponte said he was mainly concerned with putting as > many laptops as possible in children's hands." > > -- via Associated Press >

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Ivan Krstić
On Apr 22, 2008, at 7:00 PM, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote: > It confirms that this has become a > pure laptop project and not an education project as the official > mission > states (stated?). Giving laptops to children is not an education > project, it's giving laptops to children. Which is why

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Martin Dengler
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 03:52:35PM -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: > I always forget that when I reply the message does not go to the list. > On the support-gang list there is quite a bit of discouragement over > Walter leaving because Negroponte has decided to go the XP route with > the XO. And he is

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Zjnue Brzavi
"Eventually, Negroponte added, Windows might be the sole operating system ... Negroponte said he was mainly concerned with putting as many laptops as possible in children's hands." ..and credit cards with huge overdrafts for all. so this project IS about the colonization of minds and expanding 'ma

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Martin Dengler
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 05:29:58PM -0400, Ivan Krstić wrote: > On Apr 22, 2008, at 5:25 PM, Edward Cherlin wrote: > > Who says Negroponte is shifting? Certainly not Walter in any of his > > public posts. Can't happen. We would all be out of here like a shot > > to fork Sugar. Nicholas is weird, b

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
On 22.04.2008 23:29, Ivan Krstić wrote: > On Apr 22, 2008, at 5:25 PM, Edward Cherlin wrote: > >> Who says Negroponte is shifting? Certainly not Walter in any of his >> public posts. Can't happen. We would all be out of here like a shot >> to fork Sugar. Nicholas is weird, but not utterly stup

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Alfonso de la Guarda
In brief, As Peruvian collaborator and open source developer, the issue of the departure of Walter and rumors about Windows XP really worry me. In Peru there are those who have worked with politicians and authorities speaks about the freedoms that the OLPC / XO means, may lose that? We need someon

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
On 22.04.2008 23:25, Edward Cherlin wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Aaron Konstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> I always forget that when I reply the message does not go to the list. >> On the support-gang list there is quite a bit of discouragement over >> Walter leaving because N

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Carol Lerche
The OLPC Association has done amazing things with limited resources and deserves to take great pride in this. However, this Negroponte quotation from the article seems correct to me: He lamented that an overriding insistence on open-source had hampered the XOs, saying Sugar "grew amorphously" and

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Ivan Krstić
On Apr 22, 2008, at 5:25 PM, Edward Cherlin wrote: > Who says Negroponte is shifting? Certainly not Walter in any of his > public posts. Can't happen. We would all be out of here like a shot > to fork Sugar. Nicholas is weird, but not utterly stupid. "Eventually, Negroponte added, Windows might

Re: Walter leaving and shift to XP.

2008-04-22 Thread Edward Cherlin
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Aaron Konstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I always forget that when I reply the message does not go to the list. > On the support-gang list there is quite a bit of discouragement over > Walter leaving because Negroponte has decided to go the XP route with > the