Re: [ACTION REQUIRED] Retiring packages in F-16 (final warning)

2011-07-27 Thread Bill Nottingham
Marc Grimme (gri...@atix.de) said: I've done this but could not take over the ownership for Fedora-devel. It's still orphaned there. Correct, because the packages have already been blocked as stated in the mail. I also got reminders from rawhide that the dependent packages could not be

Re: Would like to claim deprecated package brandy

2011-08-01 Thread Bill Nottingham
Chris Tyler (ch...@tylers.info) said: I just found out about the package brandy and was saddened to realize that I missed the orphan-deprecation announcement. I'd like to take this one. Oddly, I see that the dead.package file states that: This package was retired on 2011-07-25

Re: [ACTION REQUIRED] Retiring packages in F-16 (final warning)

2011-08-03 Thread Bill Nottingham
Honza Horak (hho...@redhat.com) said: Hm, a bad thing has happened during my vacation, I haven't noticed my package cdrdao/gcdmaster is in the list and now I have a FTBFS problem. So I can take these packages if it's not too late yet: libgnomeuimm26 libgnomemm26 gnome-vfsmm26 Is it

Re: Default services enabled

2011-08-18 Thread Bill Nottingham
Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) said: Oh, I just noticed this: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:Guidelines:Systemd#Socket_activation Since Fedora currently doesn't want any services to do on-demand loading, all socket activated services must autostart. Uh, oh. I

Re: RFC: Fedora-medical comps patch

2011-08-22 Thread Bill Nottingham
Ankur Sinha (sanjay.an...@gmail.com) said: On Sat, 2011-08-20 at 10:41 +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 11:28:38AM +0530, Ankur Sinha wrote: Hello, You may have noticed a lot of packaging activity on the fedora-medical front[1]. There are still quite a few

Re: RFC: Fedora-medical comps patch

2011-08-22 Thread Bill Nottingham
Ankur Sinha (sanjay.an...@gmail.com) said: I agree - Medical Software or Medical Applications is better. After all, other derived distributions might pull from the repository or comps file. Description, if included, should end with a period. Other than that, looks OK. Bill

Re: Default services enabled

2011-08-23 Thread Bill Nottingham
Tom Callaway (tcall...@redhat.com) said: On 08/22/2011 01:29 PM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: I'm pretty sure that we kicked this up to FESCo and they decided to treat them the same (although the latter may not have come to a formal vote and only been discussed during their IRC meetings on the

Re: Default services enabled

2011-08-23 Thread Bill Nottingham
Stephen John Smoogen (smo...@gmail.com) said: A socket-activated service is much the same as a non-socket-activated service, in that installing the unit won't activate the service unless something calls for it, or the admin/rpm scripts run 'systemctl enable'. So A couple of questions:

Re: Default services enabled

2011-08-24 Thread Bill Nottingham
Jesse Keating (jkeat...@j2solutions.net) said: Some of the argument here is that it is difficult to do this from a remote host. You'd have to engage in remote execution of software, e.g. using nagios nrpe to remotely (from the nagios system) execute commands on the database system to call

Re: systemd not in critpath

2011-08-25 Thread Bill Nottingham
Toshio Kuratomi (a.bad...@gmail.com) said: On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 10:13:48PM -0700, Garrett Holmstrom wrote: Neither bodhi nor mash appears to consider systemd to be in the critical path. Why is this? Is that the way we want it to be? We should get that corrected. notting has ben

Re: floppy support

2011-08-30 Thread Bill Nottingham
Matthew Garrett (mj...@srcf.ucam.org) said: On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 02:50:10PM +0100, Tom Hughes wrote: On 30/08/11 14:23, Bruno Wolff III wrote: I'll need to test it. Right now I use explicit modprobe commands in rc.local, which isn't good for packages. I looked at modprobe.conf

Re: Initscript migration to systemd: triggerun called on downgrade

2011-09-01 Thread Bill Nottingham
Petr Pisar (ppi...@redhat.com) said: I'm migrating quota_nld service (provided by quota_nld subpackage of quota spec) to systemd. Offical howto https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:ScriptletSnippets#Packages_migrating_to_a_systemd_unit_file_from_a_SysV_initscript recommends:

Re: Initscript migration to systemd: triggerun called on downgrade

2011-09-02 Thread Bill Nottingham
Petr Pisar (ppi...@redhat.com) said: Then why does migration how-to use triggerun instead of triggerpostun? I cannot see reason why the code should be executed on downgrade. %triggerpostun runs after the old version is uninstalled - you can't save any state then. Bill -- devel mailing list

Re: Marking zapped bugs

2011-09-02 Thread Bill Nottingham
Matt McCutchen (m...@mattmccutchen.net) said: We have a number of options here which vary in implementation effort and how much burden they impose on user and/or maintainer to get what they want from an inadequate representation: 1. Status quo: hard to distinguish expired from WONTFIX. 2a.

Re: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SysVtoSystemd

2011-09-05 Thread Bill Nottingham
Reindl Harald (h.rei...@thelounge.net) said: the alpha was release and http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SysVtoSystemd is at 0% - why will F16 released WITHOUT making the system clean which should have been done for F15 Perhaps the feature owner should update it, as per the policy. How

Re: comps headsup: plan to drop langpacks from language-support groups in comps-f17.xml.in

2011-09-09 Thread Bill Nottingham
Jens Petersen (peter...@redhat.com) said: yum-langpacks has been working pretty well now for a while in Fedora, but all langpacks are still listed conditionally in comps' language support groups in addition to the langpacks meta-section. So for F17 I'd like to remove them all from comps,

Re: what if native systemd service is slower than old sysvinit script?

2011-09-14 Thread Bill Nottingham
Adam Williamson (awill...@redhat.com) said: Well we never had upstart (it was just a renamed sysvinit i.e we didn't use any of its parallel startup stuff). hum, I thought we were using its ability to parallel start things based on LSB deps. oh well. it's certainly *capable* of that,

Re: what if native systemd service is slower than old sysvinit script?

2011-09-15 Thread Bill Nottingham
Steve Clark (scl...@netwolves.com) said: Is there a reason Fedora starts a bunch of stuff that pretty much nobody would use in a typical desktop system ? One example of a synchronization point is the LVM/dmraid/etc. startup. If we were able to conclusively determine that there weren't any of

Re: Fedora 16 beta vice Knoppix

2011-10-05 Thread Bill Nottingham
Kay Sievers (kay.siev...@vrfy.org) said: Any system service that today relies in its core on 'udevadm settle' or scsi-wait-scan module, or any of the other bad hacks in that category, anything that uses these barriers as a checkpoint to block on, to do its synchronous actions, should be

Re: Why EDID is not trustworthy for DPI

2011-10-06 Thread Bill Nottingham
Simo Sorce (s...@redhat.com) said: My main use case here is video projectors, and in that case there is no way on earth you'll ever know the DPI as it depends on the distance from the wall, and again even if you knew the distance from the wall you'd know nothing because the optimal DPI will

Re: Firefox on Fedora: No longer funny

2011-10-10 Thread Bill Nottingham
Rahul Sundaram (methe...@gmail.com) said: On 10/10/2011 08:52 PM, Thomas Spura wrote: So there doesn't need to be more co-maintainers (which is welcomed anyway), but it would help to get such updates pushed to stable directly like it was without the forced period in updates-testing or a

Re: Firefox on Fedora: No longer funny

2011-10-11 Thread Bill Nottingham
Thomas Spura (toms...@fedoraproject.org) said: If the required updates are due to version checks in the extensions, it might be possible to have RPM have a dependency generator that checks these and outputs the appropriate Requires/Conflicts lines, such that this could be easily caught by

FESCo meeting agenda for 2011-10-17

2011-10-17 Thread Bill Nottingham
Following is the list of topics that will be discussed in the FESCo meeting today at 17:00UTC (1:00pm EDT) in #fedora-meeting on irc.freenode.net. Links to all tickets below can be found at: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/report/9 = Followups = #topic #667 Request to fix CRITPATH update

FESCo meeting minutes for 2011-10-17

2011-10-17 Thread Bill Nottingham
=== #fedora-meeting: FESCO (2011-10-17) === Meeting started by notting at 17:01:09 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2011-10-17/fesco.2011-10-17-17.01.log.html Meeting summary

Re: No install icon on Fedora 16 Live - blocker bug?

2011-10-19 Thread Bill Nottingham
Adam Williamson (awill...@redhat.com) said: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=747459 If you have hardware that starts GNOME 3 in compatibility mode there is no install icon on the desktop. Example: Jack is local Fedora and Linux evangelist, he explains to his friend

Re: Systemd conversion versus updates in back Fedora branches

2011-10-24 Thread Bill Nottingham
Tom Lane (t...@redhat.com) said: FWIW, I'm totally on board with the idea of not switching to systemd in F15 --- and even if I wanted to do that, it's pure luck that the problem doesn't apply to F14-F15 upgrades as well, where such an option is certainly not available. The reason F14 escapes

Re: UsrMove feature (was Re: FESCo meeting minutes for 2011-10-24)

2011-10-25 Thread Bill Nottingham
Alexander Kurtakov (akurt...@redhat.com) said: Someone would have to find a killer feature to justify touching this amount of packages :). Not to mention that such changes should happen upstream and I (probably a number of other maintainers too) would not maintain local patches for smth

Re: GNOME vs. Fedora logo in gdm window

2011-11-04 Thread Bill Nottingham
Jos Vos (j...@xos.nl) said: I just installed F16 RC5 in a VM and I see the GNOME (foot) logo in the gdm login window, i.s.o. the Fedora logo. Is this correct? IIRC the Fedora logo was still there in an earlier beta... This is the fallback GDM, correct? Bill -- devel mailing list

Re: GNOME vs. Fedora logo in gdm window

2011-11-04 Thread Bill Nottingham
Jos Vos (j...@xos.nl) said: On Fri, Nov 04, 2011 at 03:10:10PM -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: This is the fallback GDM, correct? Yes it is (in a KVM console). I now realize that it looks different from the GDM I saw when I tested an earlier beta on a real PC. This is a result of fixing

Re: Proposing Fedora Feature for private /tmp and /var/tmp for all systemd services in Fedora 17.

2011-11-07 Thread Bill Nottingham
Daniel J Walsh (dwa...@redhat.com) said: I know I just opened a couple of other features on Fedora 17. I just wanted to open discussion on this about what would be the best way to do this. * Make it default in systemd I think that would be problematic if it's applied to all units; it's a

Re: Heads up: bumping libnl to v3 in rawhide/F17 soon

2011-11-08 Thread Bill Nottingham
Dan Williams (d...@redhat.com) said: At some point here I'm going to bump libnl to version 3 in rawhide. The libnl 1.1 we use today is way out of date and we want version 3 for the enhanced capabilities like bonding, bridging, vlan, etc. This *does* mean an API break, so packages will need

Re: Heads up: bumping libnl to v3 in rawhide/F17 soon

2011-11-08 Thread Bill Nottingham
Dan Williams (d...@redhat.com) said: I believe libnl3 *might* be parallel installable; I've had conversations with tgraf about how to make it so. I'll investigate once the upstream git repo comes back online. In the past the problem was mainly with the devel package and the location of the

Re: Reminder of FESCo town hall meeting today

2011-11-21 Thread Bill Nottingham
Jared K. Smith (jsm...@fedoraproject.org) said: I want to remind everyone of the upcoming FESCo town hall meeting today, Monday November 21st at 18:00 UTC. For more details, see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections#IRC_Town_Halls. In the future, can we ensure that the FESCo town hall

Re: Rethinking proventester and critpath

2011-11-22 Thread Bill Nottingham
Ken Dreyer (ktdre...@ktdreyer.com) said: On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 6:06 AM, Nils Philippsen n...@redhat.com wrote: Hm. The list of (implicitly labeled) critpath packages seems to have proliferated recently Why not impose a self-restriction on the number of critpath packages? Make a rule

Re: updating goffice to 0.9.0

2011-11-28 Thread Bill Nottingham
Julian Sikorski (beleg...@gmail.com) said: Dear Fedorians, goffice-0.9.0 was released recently, along with new gnumeric [1,2]. What is your opinion on pushing the update to rawhide ASAP? To the best of my knowledge stable goffice 0.10 and gnumeric 1.12 should be out by the time Fedora 17

Re: systemd: root device on iscsi

2011-11-28 Thread Bill Nottingham
Jeremy Sanders (jer...@jeremysanders.net) said: Hi - is an iscsi root device a supported configuration setup with F16 and systemd? I asked on #systemd, and got pointed here. We're using dracut to boot diskless systems with root devices on iscsi. This works fine for booting using Fedora 16

Re: systemd: root device on iscsi

2011-11-29 Thread Bill Nottingham
Jeremy Sanders (jer...@jeremysanders.net) said: What are you using for networking - the old network service or NetworkManager? The old network service. The root device is cloned from a non-iscsi installation, however, as kickstart didn't like to install onto a non- partitioned iscsi

Re: systemd: root device on iscsi

2011-11-30 Thread Bill Nottingham
Jeremy Sanders (jer...@jeremysanders.net) said: Your patch does -bash-4.2# findmnt -m -n -o fstype,options / ext4 rw,relatime,user_xattr,acl,barrier=0,data=ordered Which doesn't show the _netdev option. If I change this to -bash-4.2# findmnt -s -n -o fstype,options / ext4

Re: systemd: root device on iscsi

2011-12-01 Thread Bill Nottingham
Jeremy Sanders (jer...@jeremysanders.net) said: Jeremy Sanders (jer...@jeremysanders.net) said: Your patch does -bash-4.2# findmnt -m -n -o fstype,options / ext4 rw,relatime,user_xattr,acl,barrier=0,data=ordered Which doesn't show the _netdev option. If I change this to

Re: Firefox 4 for Fedora 14?

2010-07-30 Thread Bill Nottingham
Rahul Sundaram (methe...@gmail.com) said: The fedora project has no control about this repos use at your own risk etc. pp ? No. Not even with a note like that. Instead of a static list of preincluded repos, would it be possible to discover repos automatically from a neutral domain and

Re: Firefox 4 for Fedora 14?

2010-07-30 Thread Bill Nottingham
Rahul Sundaram (methe...@gmail.com) said: dramatically. Even in this thread, I have talked about a standard way of accessing repositories to make it easier for users, asking remi to make Firefox 4 available in repo etc which has nothing to do with RPM Fusion. Example 1: Warning -

Re: Firefox 4 for Fedora 14?

2010-07-30 Thread Bill Nottingham
Rahul Sundaram (methe...@gmail.com) said: More seriously, can you please stop these constant pleas of 'how can I make Fedora do contributory infringement'? It's getting tiresome to have new 'can we do this? how about this? maybe this?' ideas every couple of weeks. That's just twisting

Re: [HEADS-UP] adding missing systemd links in rawhide/F14 upgrades

2010-08-04 Thread Bill Nottingham
Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) said: And here's another addition: you might also want to run this command when upgrading from older rwahide to current F-14/rawhide: # systemctl enable graphical.target This makes sure the default.target link is created properly I still

Re: [ACTION REQUIRED] orphaned packages in F-14

2010-08-04 Thread Bill Nottingham
Michael Schwendt (mschwe...@gmail.com) said: Unblocked orphan librsvg2 What's going on here? The procedure used to be for various gnome-y packages in the days before provenpackager to just assign a single maintainer and a whole slew of co-maintainers, so anyone in the Desktop SIG could

Re: [ACTION REQUIRED] orphaned packages in F-14

2010-08-09 Thread Bill Nottingham
Petr Pisar (ppi...@redhat.com) said: I suggest that these be just built without NAS support. NAS is basically an older competitor to PulseAudio with fewer features (it focuses on network transparency, which is just one of the things PulseAudio does), it is not compatible with

Re: Plan for tomorrow's FESCo meeting (2010-08-10)

2010-08-10 Thread Bill Nottingham
Michael Schwendt (mschwe...@gmail.com) said: * LINK: http://fedoraproject.org/PackageReviewStatus/MERGE.html (nirik, 19:59:05) * AGREED: : encourage provenpackagers to commit to rawhide fixes for merge reviews. said pp's should not be the reviewer. Pardon? What exactly is

Re: [HEADS-UP] adding missing systemd links in rawhide/F14 upgrades

2010-08-12 Thread Bill Nottingham
Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) said: Yes, that is correct. An already built version on f15 will always be newer than anything coming up from f14. Can I undo such a build? I did that mostly because I forgot that the branching already happened when I built systemd the first time

Re: F14/F13 - system-config-display - should it work?

2010-08-12 Thread Bill Nottingham
Felix Miata (mrma...@earthlink.net) said: So users of absent or dysfunctional DDC and/or EDID should be committed to 800x600 or 1024x768 @96DPI until they replace their (quality, antique, still working just fine) displays Just as a point, if the EDID/DDC is dysfunctional, then I don't think

Re: The slip down memory lane

2010-08-12 Thread Bill Nottingham
Jon Ciesla (l...@jcomserv.net) said: I disagree that a clockwork release schedule is required for quality, or even perceived quality. If that's the sort of metric being looked at, the user is probably best suited to RHEL, CentOS, etc. It would be interesting to look at RHEL/CentOS to see

Re: New bodhi release in production

2010-08-16 Thread Bill Nottingham
Toshio Kuratomi (a.bad...@gmail.com) said: So I've kept my voice out of this... and hopefully, now that you know that it's not just hte KDE SIG, I can go back to doing so again. ... how does that help? You've mentioned that you don't like 'this change' ... which part of it are you referring

Re: New bodhi release in production

2010-08-17 Thread Bill Nottingham
Ryan Rix (r...@n.rix.si) said: available (sometimes in front of it)... Yet even now, we can't keep up with what (some of) our users want: the latest KDE, on KDE's release day, whether it's a major release, or a point release. Yes, not every one of our users is this way, but many are, and

[ACTION REQUIRED, v2] orphaned packages in F-14

2010-08-20 Thread Bill Nottingham
The attached list shows currently orphaned packages in F-14. If they are not claimed by the end of next week, they will be blocked, potentially breaking dependencies (and causing more things to be blocked...) If you already co-maintain the package, please step up and take it. (If you don't, it

Re: systemd and filesystems with noauto

2010-08-23 Thread Bill Nottingham
Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) said: So, to turn this around. Do you think this behaviour is problematic? Can you make a good case for dropping this automatism? If so I'd be willing to do so. Yes, 'noauto' has defined semantics of 'not automatically mounted at boot'; breaking that

Re: systemd and changes

2010-08-23 Thread Bill Nottingham
Matthew Miller (mat...@mattdm.org) said: So, I'm honestly asking: what are the odds that these few things are the only improvements that cause a disruptive change to user interaction? I don't think it's unreasonable to wonder if there are other changes which fit this category. My concern

Re: systemd and changes

2010-08-23 Thread Bill Nottingham
Mike McGrath (mmcgr...@redhat.com) said: My concern with this line of thinking is that you're asking us to quantify the unknown unknown, and define a time period of testing which is 'long enough' for us to catch all the unknown unknowns. This seems impractical, in as much as it doesn't

systemd acceptance, packaging guidelines (was Re: systemd and changes)

2010-08-23 Thread Bill Nottingham
(intentionally breaking thread) Toshio Kuratomi (a.bad...@gmail.com) said: Maybe I should start a new thread since this isn't really a bug, but it is a blocker -- we need to get some packaging guidelines out for systemd. I think that the last message on the subject was this one:

Re: Packages on which Thunderbird functionality depends!

2010-08-24 Thread Bill Nottingham
Stephen Gallagher (sgall...@redhat.com) said: I'm not a Thunderbird maintainer, so I don't know how feasible this is, but perhaps we could create a subpackage like 'thunderbird-sound-support' that has the appropriate dependencies on it. Then at least someone doing a yum search on thunderbird

Re: Bodhi updates

2010-08-24 Thread Bill Nottingham
Stephen Gallagher (sgall...@redhat.com) said: Bodhi updates can have multiple packages associated with a single update as long as they are on different branches. Why this restriction? At least in the case of something like a security update, I would think that it would be beneficial to be

Re: systemd acceptance, packaging guidelines (was Re: systemd and changes)

2010-08-24 Thread Bill Nottingham
Matthew Miller (mat...@mattdm.org) said: How about: - If /etc/inittab exists and contains an initdefault line, the default target will be set accordingly. - any other non-comment, non-blank lines in /etc/inittab will be logged as warnings. This leaves a migration path (ditch the

Re: systemd acceptance, packaging guidelines (was Re: systemd and changes)

2010-08-24 Thread Bill Nottingham
seth vidal (skvi...@fedoraproject.org) said: You mean 'being passed on the kernel cmdline', I assume ? Do we consider interactive boot essential (I think not) ? Should mention something about forced fsck, maybe. What about selinux relabeling ? I can't remember interactive boot

Re: systemd and changes

2010-08-24 Thread Bill Nottingham
Till Maas (opensou...@till.name) said: I did not want to imply that PulseAudio is useless. I doubt that you would have implemented it, if you did not have any use for it. Probably a lot of people who bought their soundcard without considering to buy one capable of hardware mixing will also

Re: systemd acceptance, packaging guidelines (was Re: systemd and changes)

2010-08-24 Thread Bill Nottingham
Matthew Miller (mat...@mattdm.org) said: The intent is not to do so in the final release, AIUI. We're only keeping it around during pre-release, so that if we decide we need to fall back to upstart for final release, it's easy to do. As far as I know, the plan is to decide later

Re: systemd acceptance, packaging guidelines (was Re: systemd and changes)

2010-08-24 Thread Bill Nottingham
seth vidal (skvi...@fedoraproject.org) said: I'll test it in rhel6 in just a sec. Doesn't work in rhel6 :( If you hold down the key long enough at the right time, it sort of works. That's not really how we want to have it going forward, for obvious reasons. Bill -- devel mailing list

Re: systemd acceptance, packaging guidelines (was Re: systemd and changes)

2010-08-24 Thread Bill Nottingham
Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) said: - init shall support a mechanism to re-exec itself to not cause dirty inodes on shutdown; initscripts will use this method on shutdown. This is bad. While we support this just fine I think it is a really bad idea to reexec init at

Re: systemd acceptance, packaging guidelines (was Re: systemd and changes)

2010-08-25 Thread Bill Nottingham
Chris Adams (cmad...@hiwaay.net) said: This is a very big change. chkconfig has worked for a long, long time. Its elegance and simplicity is one of the nice administrative features of Red Hat based distributes. People like it. Yes, and they should continue to use it -- for sysv

Re: systemd acceptance, packaging guidelines (was Re: systemd and changes)

2010-08-25 Thread Bill Nottingham
Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) said: Hmm, so this is about files that are deleted but still mapped by init, and which can only be deleted when init stops referencing them, but that is required to remount the fs r/o? Did I get this right? Correct. I am not really convinced that

Re: a note on order of arguements to systemctl command

2010-08-25 Thread Bill Nottingham
Matthew Miller (mat...@mattdm.org) said: I'm not saying that systemctl's syntax needs to be changed. I am saying, however, that it's important to get the service command working with systemctl so that people can use that instead. FYI, this is done in git, will be built today/tomorrow. Bill

Re: systemd or why will user fall away from fedora?

2010-08-25 Thread Bill Nottingham
dr johnson (d...@www.uk.linux.org) said: That would be all grand and spiffy if it were actually faster bootup. Bootchart here reports that systemd is 8 seconds *SLOWER* than upstart. No idea why, but systemd just hangs for 8 seconds doing nothing that I can see. No logs anywhere that are

Re: systemd v8 for rawhide?

2010-08-26 Thread Bill Nottingham
Matthew Miller (mat...@mattdm.org) said: On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 01:58:41AM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: Sorry for breaking this (again), but with this in place things should be at the appropriate places now for F14. What about for Rawhide, where I'm testing all of this? It looks like

Re: systemd v8 for rawhide?

2010-08-26 Thread Bill Nottingham
Matthew Miller (mat...@mattdm.org) said: What about for Rawhide, where I'm testing all of this? It looks like the update was just built on F14. rawhide's currently inheriting systemd from F-14; it will get the new version when it gets to the stable tree. Really? I haven't been paying

Re: If you cannot boot after installing systemd v8...

2010-08-26 Thread Bill Nottingham
M A Young (m.a.yo...@durham.ac.uk) said: Note that version 8-2 waiting in bodhi should now handle upgrades from the alpha without problems. Does it cope with the shutdown problem? After I updated systemd to 8 I couldn't shut the computer down, because (if I am remembering correctly) it

Re: systemd v8 for rawhide?

2010-08-27 Thread Bill Nottingham
Matthew Miller (mat...@mattdm.org) said: I'm willing to sacrifice my stable rawhide desktop system in the name of getting Fedora more testing. Where should this discussion be had? FESCo. rel-eng will implement it (it's a one-line koji command), but the decision isn't really rel-eng's to make

Re: applied, non-theoretical use of systemd

2010-08-27 Thread Bill Nottingham
Petrus de Calguarium (kwhisk...@gmail.com) said: 1. I noticed that one can no longer (with v8-2) turn off the computer by clicking the 'turn off computer' button in KDE. I figured out, with help of recent threads, that one has to run: systemctl isolate poweroff.target. It worked. Is this

Re: drop default MTA for Fedora 15

2010-08-27 Thread Bill Nottingham
Chris Adams (cmad...@hiwaay.net) said: Once upon a time, Garrett Holmstrom gho...@fedoraproject.org said: While it may be debatable what benefit one might get from removing it from the default install, can we at least remove MTAs from @core to help make things easier for appliance folks?

Re: applied, non-theoretical use of systemd

2010-08-27 Thread Bill Nottingham
Petrus de Calguarium (kwhisk...@gmail.com) said: So, the problem reduces to the Shut Off Computer button in KDE not working. OK. So the question is ... what does this button do? Invoke 'halt'? Invoke 'shutdown -h now'? Invoke ConsoleKit's Stop() method? Bill -- devel mailing list

Orphan packages retired for F-14 (and rawhide)

2010-08-27 Thread Bill Nottingham
In accordance with the normal process, the following packages have been orphaned for Fedora 14 and rawhide. JSDoc bzr-gtk cdf crun django-authopenid drpython fedora-security-guide-en-US fet fish gg2 gnomecatalog gperiodic impressive kasablanca kflickr lazygal libmspack mapbender mediawiki-HNP

Re: fedora mission (was Re: systemd and changes)

2010-08-30 Thread Bill Nottingham
Gerard Braad (gbr...@fedoraproject.org) said: aggressively I do not agree this strategy is wise or even the correct way. Certain Fedora versions dropped hardware support. We can't dictate people wht they can or can not do. I still know people who run old redhat releases (5.x) as there was

Re: fedora mission (was Re: systemd and changes)

2010-08-31 Thread Bill Nottingham
Jeff Spaleta (jspal...@gmail.com) said: On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Emmanuel Seyman emmanuel.sey...@club-internet.fr wrote: Same goes for programs that scrape web pages (I'm thinking of gcstar but I'm sure there are others). If the page layout changes, the page scraper needs to be

Re: fedora mission (was Re: systemd and changes)

2010-08-31 Thread Bill Nottingham
Jeff Spaleta (jspal...@gmail.com) said: On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:31 AM, Bill Nottingham nott...@redhat.com wrote: That's gross. (I realize you're blocked on the sites you rely on, but geez, can't you find sites with real APIs?) It is what it is. Though I do like being given credit

Re: Starting Java SIG

2010-09-02 Thread Bill Nottingham
Stanislav Ochotnicky (sochotni...@redhat.com) said: Agenda TBD, but for now the idea is to: * go through Tasks listed on [1] Can non-SIG members add tasks? If we have a Java SIG, I'd like there to be some agreement on how to handle orphaned packages - right now, we've got about 30 java

Re: systemd and changes

2010-09-02 Thread Bill Nottingham
Ben Boeckel (maths...@gmail.com) said: I actually have a bug to file about that. The setting for NM_CONTROLLED is still set even if NetworkManager isn't installed. It (or Ananconda) should scrub the configs before installing the settings used during the install. IMO, NM_CONTROLLED should

Re: Starting Java SIG

2010-09-03 Thread Bill Nottingham
Stanislav Ochotnicky (sochotni...@redhat.com) said: I believe most of them have already been taken (by me, Alexander Kurtakov or someone else). But a list of the remainining would be nice of course. Sure, here you go (obviously, some of this is more eclipse-focused rather than core java):

Re: Twitter support broken in Pino

2010-09-03 Thread Bill Nottingham
Gianluca Sforna (gia...@gmail.com) said: Most FOSS client developers have simply chosen to embed their keys in their source code with the hope that Twitter won't notice. I was about to give up on Gwibber, but Canonical intervened on my behalf (special thanks to Ken VanDine) and negotiated a

Re: Pino twitter

2010-09-10 Thread Bill Nottingham
Alex Hudson (fed...@alexhudson.com) said: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=629192 I read through my archive and all I can see is a short discussion proposing changing to gwibber. Is anyone actively trying to get an exception for pino a la gwibber? Or should someone be

Re: Pino twitter

2010-09-10 Thread Bill Nottingham
Arun SAG (saga...@gmail.com) said: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=629192https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel This bug is now a F14 blocker. Nomintated as one; it needs to go through the normal review process. And the fix for this may not involve

Re: Twitter support broken in Pino

2010-09-10 Thread Bill Nottingham
Bill Nottingham (nott...@redhat.com) said: The other option would be to switch to gwibber (which has been un-desktop-couched in Fedora 14, so it theoretically won't bring in nearly as much to the live image. So, actual testing - building a livecd with gwibber instead of pino brings

Re: Broadcom wifi drivers in F-14?

2010-09-14 Thread Bill Nottingham
Ric Wheeler (rwhee...@redhat.com) said: Can we use the firmware that they have for the existing broadcom wireless driver? 'No' is what I've been told. Bill -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: Meeting summary/minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-09-14)

2010-09-14 Thread Bill Nottingham
Máirín Duffy (du...@fedoraproject.org) said: Only 5 of the 9 FESCo members voted on this issue. If all 9 had voted, even with the current 3 for / 2 against vote, systemd could easily have enough votes for inclusion in F14. I have a couple of questions for you, FESCo, since I honestly don't

Re: Meeting summary/minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-09-14)

2010-09-15 Thread Bill Nottingham
drago01 (drag...@gmail.com) said: The only real issues pointed out where lack of documentation and system-config-service integration for native services. Neither that we have with upstart so not really a regression and thus warrant a reject. system services have not been migrated to upstart.

Re: Meeting summary/minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-09-14)

2010-09-15 Thread Bill Nottingham
Richard Hughes (hughsi...@gmail.com) said: On 14 September 2010 23:01, Kevin Fenzi ke...@scrye.com wrote: 21:33:35 nirik The other 2 items I had were: 21:33:56 nirik application installer issues 21:33:57 nirik https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=488968 21:34:04 nirik and

Re: Meeting summary/minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-09-14)

2010-09-15 Thread Bill Nottingham
Toshio Kuratomi (a.bad...@gmail.com) said: Actually, iiuc, tomasz is talking about migrating sysv-init scripts to systemd unit files. There is a blocker to doing that in F15 which is that lennart, notting, and walters (that I remember) are against doing a mass migration to unit files until

Re: Linux and application installing

2010-09-17 Thread Bill Nottingham
Arthur Pemberton (pem...@gmail.com) said: Can someone please elaborate a bit what pieces of information are really needed? The .desktop files as a whole? Wouldn't that require the tool to download every package just to get the embedded information. Not if it's provided in the RPM header

Re: ImageMagick soname bump for F14

2010-09-17 Thread Bill Nottingham
Pavel Alexeev (aka Pahan-Hubbitus) (fo...@hubbitus.com.ru) said: 16.09.2010 18:35, Orion Poplawski wrote: Do we really want to do this, especially for a FTBS issue presumably against F15? https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/ImageMagick-6.6.4.1-13.fc14 Please excuse me what I did

Re: REVIEW/RFC: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kevin/Updates_Policy_Draft

2010-09-27 Thread Bill Nottingham
Jaroslav Reznik (jrez...@redhat.com) said: It's not some random day - it's when you actually accept an update! It's not easy to estimate impact of update - but banning completely is not a solution neither. We do not give nearly enough information in our updates for the user to make any

Re: x86_64 as Fedora's primary platform

2010-09-27 Thread Bill Nottingham
Mike McGrath (mmcgr...@redhat.com) said: The Fedora web resources (e.g. http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora ) continue to promote i686 installs over x86_64, the result being that only a third of fedora users are on x86_64. When will the Fedora project begin recommending x86_64 as the

Re: Broken dependencies with Fedora 14 + updates-testing - 2010-09-27

2010-09-27 Thread Bill Nottingham
Michael Schwendt (mschwe...@gmail.com) said: The following packages in the repository suffer from broken dependencies: == The results in this summary consider Test Updates!

Re: REVIEW/RFC: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kevin/Updates_Policy_Draft

2010-10-01 Thread Bill Nottingham
Orcan Ogetbil (oget.fed...@gmail.com) said: What I am trying to say is, a redesign of an interface _usually_ have valid reasons. Those users who don't want their menu items moving around want to live like automated machines. Forbidding such changes promotes lazyness. If the update removes

Re: FAILED: BuildrootError: could not init mock buildroot

2010-10-01 Thread Bill Nottingham
Neal Becker (ndbeck...@gmail.com) said: FAILED: BuildrootError: could not init mock buildroot, mock exited with status 30; see root.log for more information http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=2506706 DEBUG util.py:260: Error: Package: 4:perl-5.12.2-137.fc15.x86_64

Re: FAILED: BuildrootError: could not init mock buildroot

2010-10-01 Thread Bill Nottingham
Neal Becker (ndbeck...@gmail.com) said: Thanks, what should I do next? Wait for the build repo to regenerate and then resubmit. Bill -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel

Re: Summary/Minutes for today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-05)

2010-10-06 Thread Bill Nottingham
Matthew Garrett (mj...@srcf.ucam.org) said: But I cannot list all the RHEL6 bugs. Why not? Strip partner names if necessary, but please make it possible for people to decide whether a given update is a benefit to them. Well, he could list them in the bug field, but bodhi would elide them

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