On 17/6/2009 22:36, sashee wrote:
> this way freenet don't start all the
> fetching, just what is requested... When the page loads, freenet
> start fetching all the images,
Did you look at your /config/fproxy page ?
There is an option called "Enable prefetching of inline images" ..
>
As I see in the statistics
(http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp) IE6 has 14.5%
share and radically decreasing. In my opinion, I think it should be
left dead as it should have been a long time ago. I don't think if
somebody uses that good-for-nothing browser, he will be too
> This is going to be very inefficient for a public gateway... otoh maybe
> that's not an important use case. In fact, it's a privacy issue for a node
> serving several users over a LAN (or even more so for a public gateway). Can
> you reasonably easily make it track who is subscribed to which
Matthew Toseland skrev:
> On Wednesday 17 June 2009 16:26:35 Caco Patane wrote:
>>> Hmmm... do we care? How many people use IE6 at the moment? And what exactly
>>> happens on IE6 with 1-bit-transparent PNGs?
>> At least here (latin america) there are tons of IE6 users: because
>> hardware is
Ok, I'll schedule that then.
> One thing that *is* critical is that we stop loading the images if the user
> closes the page, but afaics the existing infrastructure will do that.
I really dont think that anything gets notified when the user closes
the tab. So I dont think fetching is stopped
reenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
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So my question is: Is it needed? If it helps, I'll do it before the
midterm evals, but if it doesnt improve anything, then no need to
program it.
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 5:44 PM, sashee wrote:
> Ok, thats true. But the browser won't show an image till all the image
> above are shown, because it
nge triggers it, and not just
> frequent polling.
>
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Thats a good summary, couldnt write it better myself.
As for the questions:
> Synchronization issues in PushDataManager: In the early commits this was
> inconsistent, are you happy with it now?
No, I'm not happy with it yet. It has a fatal bug in there, and I'll
need to debug it. Sometimes a
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; >>
> >> :)
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Ok, thats true. But the browser won't show an image till all the image
above are shown, because it uses 2-3 connections to fetch the images
sequentially. It may happen that a few image that fetches very slowly
will hang all the others, even if they are completely present.
sashee
On Wed, Jun 17,
When I said pushng, I meant pushing, really. It is achieved via long
polling, means that the browser makes a connection, and the server
wait till data changes. If it does, then it replies, and the browser
opens another connection. So a data change triggers it, and not just
frequent polling.
Matthew Toseland skrev:
> On Wednesday 17 June 2009 09:54:18 Zero3 wrote:
>> Matthew Toseland skrev:
>>> On Tuesday 16 June 2009 21:53:09 Zero3 wrote:
Matthew Toseland skrev:
> On Sunday 14 June 2009 14:24:39 Zero3 wrote:
>> a) On the front page of the website: A "What is Freenet?"
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> I think he means that users in "poor" areas usually run pirated versions
> of XP with the included IE6. Many of these installations won't have a
> functional Windows Update because of the "Genuine Advantage" stuff
> Microsoft pushes through it. Wich means that they won't get IE updates
>
Hello folks!
Some days ago, I've talked with nextgens about toadlet
continuations(it's asynchronous request processing), and he had a
point that when the user opens a site with lots of images, then it
needs many connections open for a long time, and it spawns many
threads at serverside, which is
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On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Matthew
Toseland wrote:
> On Wednesday 17 June 2009 13:27:10 sashee wrote:
>> Hello everybody!
>>
>> This is time for my first status report, because mid-term evals are
>> approaching.
>>
>> Some introduction, what I'm doing exactly. My project is to introduce
>>
ed easily.
> >
> > I asked my girlfriend for that. It should be done by tomorrow. I can't
> > have any guarantee for the result of course :)
> >
> :)
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Hello everybody!
This is time for my first status report, because mid-term evals are approaching.
Some introduction, what I'm doing exactly. My project is to introduce
web pushing to the web interface. That actually means, that the data
displayed are refreshed automatically, without the need to
'm not here from the 20th to the 27th so I will try to review all
recent changes, especially for my SoC students, and test the code where
possible.
>
> sashee
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S
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Ian Clarke wrote:
> I've been doing quite a bit of work in my day job with people who have
> done a vast amount of testing of the effectiveness of different
> website designs.
>
> If I were to condense what I've learned into a single caveman
> sentence, it would
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ne of the first things I look for is a screenshot.
> >
> > Ian.
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put easily
edited text on top via CSS.
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cking freenet-ext.jar this way, saving almost 4mb
> >> per run.
> >
> > Yes, that is exactly how it is supposed to work. Furthermore, checking the
> > .sha1 over HTTPS is a good thing in terms of security. So please go for it!
>
> I can't tell for sure because directory listing is denied on that
> folder of the website, but I don't think the .sha1 files for the
> downloads are in https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/
Hmmm, that's wierd. Get the sha1 from /latest/ then.
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set to LOW temp file handling and thus the responsiveness of the node are
> > considerably improved. Arguably we only need a friends security level if we
> > add darknet peers, but we want users to add darknet peers, and we want to
> > be secure by default, i.e. ask them BEFORE they add a peer...
> >>>> Big read warning about connecting to the network. (Agreed. Since this is
> >>>> to be expected, we shouldn't display a big, fat, red warning box. This
> >>>> makes users go FUD and think they did something wrong or something is
> >>>> broken. Make it a big, fat infobox instad.
> >>> What big red warning? "The node is trying to connect to the network, it
> >>> will be slow for a while." ??? How is this FUD? Users don't read, and
> >>> have unrealistic expectations, so it is IMHO essential to tell them,
> >>> while we have less than 10 peers, that Freenet may be slow for a while.
> >>> Several times when I have done test installs this hasn't even shown up
> >>> since it has reached 10 peers before showing the browse page!
> >> There will probably always be people around who refuse to read. I
> >> personally don't think we should sacifice usability for smart users to
> >> satisfy the stupid ones :).
> >
> > I don't see why it is a usability issue, we are simply telling the user the
> > facts.
> >> It's not so much the size that bugged the reviewer, but rather the fact
> >> that it was presented as a *red warning* and not as an white infobox or
> >> similar.
> >
> > Messages do not belong in infoboxes, they belong in messages. If you want
> > the detail you click on it and it will show you the detail in an infobox.
> > So really what he is complaining about is the little red X icon next to it.
> > The purpose of which is to draw the user's attention. This is only shown if
> > bootstrapping is particularly slow as I mentioned above...
>
> I think I'm explaining myself poorly. The format of the text is good, it
> just shouldn't be a marked red (with icon + the whole box turns red
> because of it).
The format of the text is identical for any message.
>
> Since the node won't connect to opennet peers before we go through the
> wizard, it most likely won't have 10 peers when the user sees the fproxy
> homepage for the first time.
Depends on how fast bootstrapping is, we start adding opennet peers as soon as
the network seclevel is set.
>
> - Zero3
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> Hmmm... do we care? How many people use IE6 at the moment? And what exactly
> happens on IE6 with 1-bit-transparent PNGs?
At least here (latin america) there are tons of IE6 users: because
hardware is expensive nobody installs vista, nobody buys original
windows copies and don't get the
Matthew Toseland skrev:
> On Tuesday 16 June 2009 21:53:09 Zero3 wrote:
>> Matthew Toseland skrev:
>>> On Sunday 14 June 2009 14:24:39 Zero3 wrote:
a) On the front page of the website: A "What is Freenet?" teaser linking
to the "What is Freenet?" page would be cool. Confusedly started
L+++ P-- L++ E--- W+++ N o-- K- w---
O M V- PS+++ PE-- Y+ PGP t+ 5-- X+ R+++ tv-- b++ DI-- D++
G++ e h+ r-- y**
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> Cool. We could actually do that in CSS, we should probably have hops as a png
> rather than SVG but that's easy... Would you mind exporting the logo as a
> transparent PNG of the correct dimensions, for the time being?
Be aware of PNG because IE6 does not support well PNG transparency (is
IE6
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Just a quick notes:
Blue Gradient background won't work, because:
-- BLUE have low contrast with the black text
-- our rabbit logo is blue, even lower contrast
-- the website ian suggested ( getfirefox/ jquery)
and other well-design webpage does NOT
use gradient
Evan Daniel wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Matthew
> Toseland wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday 16 June 2009 03:18:47 Evan Daniel wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Matthew
>>> Toseland wrote:
>>>
I have done the first phase of deploying this, after discussions with
Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Tuesday 16 June 2009 03:18:47 Evan Daniel wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Matthew
>> Toseland wrote:
>>
>>> I have done the first phase of deploying this, after discussions with Ian.
>>> We use the new background and the new logo, but we waste a
l/devl/attachments/20090617/675faedf/attachment.pgp>
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 02:06:06 Daniel Cheng wrote:
> Just a quick notes:
>
> Blue Gradient background won't work, because:
>
> -- BLUE have low contrast with the black text
>
I disagree here : black text on light blue have a good contrast.
> -- our rabbit logo is blue, even lower
don't hope I copied some other well known logo.
Let me know what you think!
- Gerard
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On Wednesday 17 June 2009 00:32:05 Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Tuesday 16 June 2009 22:38:26 Ian Clarke wrote:
> > Some notes on the website from a friend of mine who does usability work:
> >
> > i'd remove the cup image from the store because it becomes the most
> > prominent element on the page
In the bugtracker we have a long list of bugs that require
user/community feedback. Right now, nobody seems to notice that.
I suggest we somehow promote this need for feedback to the website.
Possible solution: A "How can I help?" page with a link to:
uscule bandwidth.
>
> I propose to start checking freenet-ext.jar this way, saving almost 4mb per
> run.
Yes, that is exactly how it is supposed to work. Furthermore, checking the
.sha1 over HTTPS is a good thing in terms of security. So please go for it!
>
> > Tag th
l to tell them, while we
> > have less than 10 peers, that Freenet may be slow for a while. Several
> > times when I have done test installs this hasn't even shown up since it has
> > reached 10 peers before showing the browse page!
>
> There will probably always be people around who refuse to read. I
> personally don't think we should sacifice usability for smart users to
> satisfy the stupid ones :).
I don't see why it is a usability issue, we are simply telling the user the
facts.
>
> It's not so much the size that bugged the reviewer, but rather the fact
> that it was presented as a *red warning* and not as an white infobox or
> similar.
Messages do not belong in infoboxes, they belong in messages. If you want the
detail you click on it and it will show you the detail in an infobox. So really
what he is complaining about is the little red X icon next to it. The purpose
of which is to draw the user's attention. This is only shown if bootstrapping
is particularly slow as I mentioned above...
I guess we could change it to something more innocuous, but people won't read
it in that case ... and then they will complain Freenet is slow and tell all
their friends Freenet is slow. Of course they'll probably do that anyway ...
Also I was hoping we could eventually eliminate ALL of the messages except for
ERROR and CRITICAL_ERROR, and just have a link to the messages page for
anything below that, and have this shown on every generated page rather than
the summaries we have now. Or is that a bad idea?
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ogo without the CamelCase? It's
always been Freenet not FreeNet.
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I've successfully (I think?) branched the master branch of
wininstaller-staging at github to a new beta branch. This branch now
contains the upcoming Windows tray icon.
Please feel free to test. Even small fixes like spelling and grammar is
more than welcome (because mine suck ;)).
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On Tuesday 16 June 2009 22:38:26 Ian Clarke wrote:
> Some notes on the website from a friend of mine who does usability work:
>
> i'd remove the cup image from the store because it becomes the most
> prominent element on the page next to the logo itself.
Agreed, current plan is to make the menu
bo-le skrev:
> Am Dienstag, 16. Juni 2009 21:40:53 schrieb Zero3:
>> Matthew Toseland skrev:
>>> On Sunday 14 June 2009 13:11:40 Zero3 wrote:
Matthew Toseland skrev:
This value is also passed on to the node via "node.l10n=Deutsch"
(example for German) in freenet.ini. (I don't think
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Ian Clarkei...@locut.us wrote:
I've been doing quite a bit of work in my day job with people who have
done a vast amount of testing of the effectiveness of different
website designs.
If I were to condense what I've learned into a single caveman
sentence, it
Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 05:26:25 schrieb Luke771:
Browse and publish 'freesites' (Freenet-hosted websites)
This one sounds very nice to me. It gets people into the freenet-speech and at
the same time tells them why we use it (what's the difference between a
freesite and a normal website).
Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 08:06:30 schrieb Daniel Cheng:
The bad thing is: our fproxy homepage don't have any picture.
Those little ActiveLinks icons got disabled by default.
Try using Firefox - at least for me it shows the activelinks.
Wishes,
Arne
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Matthew Toseland skrev:
On Tuesday 16 June 2009 21:53:09 Zero3 wrote:
Matthew Toseland skrev:
On Sunday 14 June 2009 14:24:39 Zero3 wrote:
a) On the front page of the website: A What is Freenet? teaser linking
to the What is Freenet? page would be cool. Confusedly started to read
the news
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 07:40:18 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 05:26:25 schrieb Luke771:
Browse and publish 'freesites' (Freenet-hosted websites)
This one sounds very nice to me. It gets people into the freenet-speech and
at
the same time tells them why we use
Hello everybody!
This is time for my first status report, because mid-term evals are approaching.
Some introduction, what I'm doing exactly. My project is to introduce
web pushing to the web interface. That actually means, that the data
displayed are refreshed automatically, without the need to
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 09:54:18 Zero3 wrote:
Matthew Toseland skrev:
On Tuesday 16 June 2009 21:53:09 Zero3 wrote:
Matthew Toseland skrev:
On Sunday 14 June 2009 14:24:39 Zero3 wrote:
a) On the front page of the website: A What is Freenet? teaser linking
to the What is Freenet? page
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 02:45:19 Juiceman wrote:
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Matthew
Toselandt...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 00:48:44 Juiceman wrote:
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Matthew
Toselandt...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
On Tuesday 16 June
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:03:38 Clément wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:18:28 Ian Clarke wrote:
Ok, we need some help with the website, surely someone out there knows
their way around Gimp, or Adobe Illustrator or something, or has a
friend that does?
Highest priorities:
-
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:19:23 Gerard Krol wrote:
Clément wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:18:28 Ian Clarke wrote:
Ok, we need some help with the website, surely someone out there knows
their way around Gimp, or Adobe Illustrator or something, or has a
friend that does?
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 03:16:18 Ian Clarke wrote:
I've been doing quite a bit of work in my day job with people who have
done a vast amount of testing of the effectiveness of different
website designs.
If I were to condense what I've learned into a single caveman
sentence, it would be:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 07:06:30 Daniel Cheng wrote:
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Ian Clarkei...@locut.us wrote:
I've been doing quite a bit of work in my day job with people who have
done a vast amount of testing of the effectiveness of different
website designs.
If I were to
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 08:17:56 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 08:06:30 schrieb Daniel Cheng:
The bad thing is: our fproxy homepage don't have any picture.
Those little ActiveLinks icons got disabled by default.
Try using Firefox - at least for me it shows the
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 13:27:10 sashee wrote:
Hello everybody!
This is time for my first status report, because mid-term evals are
approaching.
Some introduction, what I'm doing exactly. My project is to introduce
web pushing to the web interface. That actually means, that the data
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 14:54:21 Matthew Toseland wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:03:38 Clément wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:18:28 Ian Clarke wrote:
Ok, we need some help with the website, surely someone out there knows
their way around Gimp, or Adobe Illustrator or
Cool. We could actually do that in CSS, we should probably have hops as a png
rather than SVG but that's easy... Would you mind exporting the logo as a
transparent PNG of the correct dimensions, for the time being?
Be aware of PNG because IE6 does not support well PNG transparency (is
IE6
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Matthew
Toselandt...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 13:27:10 sashee wrote:
Hello everybody!
This is time for my first status report, because mid-term evals are
approaching.
Some introduction, what I'm doing exactly. My project is to
Hello folks!
Some days ago, I've talked with nextgens about toadlet
continuations(it's asynchronous request processing), and he had a
point that when the user opens a site with lots of images, then it
needs many connections open for a long time, and it spawns many
threads at serverside, which is
On 17/6/2009 22:36, sashee wrote:
this way freenet don't start all the
fetching, just what is requested... When the page loads, freenet
start fetching all the images,
Did you look at your /config/fproxy page ?
There is an option called Enable prefetching of inline images ..
What
sashee wrote:
This sounds very promising :) and it is certainly a nice feature we all
will appreciate very much.
However I have a rather technical questions out of curiousity, you talk
several times about pushing the content.
It is accomplished with ajax requests and javascript at the
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 14:27:28 Caco Patane wrote:
Cool. We could actually do that in CSS, we should probably have hops as a
png rather than SVG but that's easy... Would you mind exporting the logo as
a transparent PNG of the correct dimensions, for the time being?
Be aware of PNG
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 15:36:26 sashee wrote:
Hello folks!
Some days ago, I've talked with nextgens about toadlet
continuations(it's asynchronous request processing), and he had a
point that when the user opens a site with lots of images, then it
needs many connections open for a long
Matthew Toseland skrev:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 09:54:18 Zero3 wrote:
Matthew Toseland skrev:
On Tuesday 16 June 2009 21:53:09 Zero3 wrote:
Matthew Toseland skrev:
On Sunday 14 June 2009 14:24:39 Zero3 wrote:
a) On the front page of the website: A What is Freenet? teaser linking
to the
Hmmm... do we care? How many people use IE6 at the moment? And what exactly
happens on IE6 with 1-bit-transparent PNGs?
At least here (latin america) there are tons of IE6 users: because
hardware is expensive nobody installs vista, nobody buys original
windows copies and don't get the updates.
When I said pushng, I meant pushing, really. It is achieved via long
polling, means that the browser makes a connection, and the server
wait till data changes. If it does, then it replies, and the browser
opens another connection. So a data change triggers it, and not just
frequent polling.
Ok, thats true. But the browser won't show an image till all the image
above are shown, because it uses 2-3 connections to fetch the images
sequentially. It may happen that a few image that fetches very slowly
will hang all the others, even if they are completely present.
sashee
On Wed, Jun 17,
In testing, it appears to stick on some pages/files (but maybe that's just
freenet), and obviously it only updates the progress bar and not the rest of
the information about a download. I'm guessing maybe failed blocks aren't being
reported? I haven't seen any indication of any failed blocks in
Thats a good summary, couldnt write it better myself.
As for the questions:
Synchronization issues in PushDataManager: In the early commits this was
inconsistent, are you happy with it now?
No, I'm not happy with it yet. It has a fatal bug in there, and I'll
need to debug it. Sometimes a
Very nice!
sashee wrote:
When I said pushng, I meant pushing, really. It is achieved via long
polling, means that the browser makes a connection, and the server
wait till data changes. If it does, then it replies, and the browser
opens another connection. So a data change triggers it, and not
So my question is: Is it needed? If it helps, I'll do it before the
midterm evals, but if it doesnt improve anything, then no need to
program it.
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 5:44 PM, sasheegsas...@gmail.com wrote:
Ok, thats true. But the browser won't show an image till all the image
above are
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 19:23:22 sashee wrote:
So my question is: Is it needed? If it helps, I'll do it before the
midterm evals, but if it doesnt improve anything, then no need to
program it.
Yes. IMHO it is important. Prefetching has never worked well on new nodes, and
doesn't solve the
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 16:26:35 Caco Patane wrote:
Hmmm... do we care? How many people use IE6 at the moment? And what exactly
happens on IE6 with 1-bit-transparent PNGs?
At least here (latin america) there are tons of IE6 users: because
hardware is expensive nobody installs vista,
Can you make a link to another languages? (Like french wiki.) See
https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=2915
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Matthew Toseland t...@amphibian.dyndns.org
wrote:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 07:40:18 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote:
Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009
Ok, I'll schedule that then.
One thing that *is* critical is that we stop loading the images if the user
closes the page, but afaics the existing infrastructure will do that.
I really dont think that anything gets notified when the user closes
the tab. So I dont think fetching is stopped then.
Matthew Toseland skrev:
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 16:26:35 Caco Patane wrote:
Hmmm... do we care? How many people use IE6 at the moment? And what exactly
happens on IE6 with 1-bit-transparent PNGs?
At least here (latin america) there are tons of IE6 users: because
hardware is expensive
I think he means that users in poor areas usually run pirated versions
of XP with the included IE6. Many of these installations won't have a
functional Windows Update because of the Genuine Advantage stuff
Microsoft pushes through it. Wich means that they won't get IE updates
automatically,
This is going to be very inefficient for a public gateway... otoh maybe
that's not an important use case. In fact, it's a privacy issue for a node
serving several users over a LAN (or even more so for a public gateway). Can
you reasonably easily make it track who is subscribed to which
As I see in the statistics
(http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp) IE6 has 14.5%
share and radically decreasing. In my opinion, I think it should be
left dead as it should have been a long time ago. I don't think if
somebody uses that good-for-nothing browser, he will be too
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 20:19:25 sashee wrote:
Ok, I'll schedule that then.
One thing that *is* critical is that we stop loading the images if the user
closes the page, but afaics the existing infrastructure will do that.
I really dont think that anything gets notified when the user
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