Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-03 Thread dajones via Digitalmars-d
On Saturday, 3 January 2015 at 02:22:32 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Fri, 02 Jan 2015 16:35:15 + dajones via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Friday, 2 January 2015 at 13:46:00 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Fri, 02 Jan 2015 13:29:45 + dajones

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-03 Thread dajones via Digitalmars-d
On Friday, 2 January 2015 at 19:24:59 UTC, Vlad Levenfeld wrote: Reading this thread, one gets the impression that Dconf 2015 is better off taking place in an octagon-shaped cage than a university lecture hall... Nerd cage fighting... now there's a reality TV show I would watch.

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-03 Thread eles via Digitalmars-d
On Friday, 2 January 2015 at 19:24:59 UTC, Vlad Levenfeld wrote: Reading this thread, one gets the impression that Dconf 2015 is better off taking place in an octagon-shaped cage than a university lecture hall... Is not that bad. People here make sometimes a lot of noise, but they never hold

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-02 Thread Rikki Cattermole via Digitalmars-d
On 2/01/2015 9:55 p.m., Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 1/1/15 2:48 AM, Joakim wrote: On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 19:11:04 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 12/29/14 10:58 AM, Joakim wrote: It also means more people asking for stuff, then doing nothing to contribute towards it, as though

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-02 Thread dajones via Digitalmars-d
On Friday, 2 January 2015 at 10:44:44 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Fri, 02 Jan 2015 10:36:14 + dajones via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Friday, 2 January 2015 at 01:17:32 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Thu, 01 Jan 2015 12:55:28 + Gary

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Fri, 02 Jan 2015 13:29:45 + dajones via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Jeez I feel old. then you'd better don't know how old i am... signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-02 Thread dajones via Digitalmars-d
On Friday, 2 January 2015 at 13:46:00 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Fri, 02 Jan 2015 13:29:45 + dajones via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Jeez I feel old. then you'd better don't know how old i am... There I was trying to excuse you for being full of

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Fri, 02 Jan 2015 18:45:49 + anonymous via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Friday, 2 January 2015 at 16:35:17 UTC, dajones wrote: On Friday, 2 January 2015 at 13:46:00 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Fri, 02 Jan 2015 13:29:45 + dajones via

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Fri, 02 Jan 2015 16:35:15 + dajones via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Friday, 2 January 2015 at 13:46:00 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Fri, 02 Jan 2015 13:29:45 + dajones via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Jeez I feel old.

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-02 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 1/1/15 4:55 AM, Gary Willoughby wrote: The vast majority of users of D will *never* contribute anything *ever* but they will (from time to time) ask for something. Just deal with it. Add it to an issue tracker and triage. Users should be put first in all cases, period! I agree. But please,

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-02 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 1/1/15 2:48 AM, Joakim wrote: On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 19:11:04 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 12/29/14 10:58 AM, Joakim wrote: It also means more people asking for stuff, then doing nothing to contribute towards it, as though the D community is their slave labor. If we, the D

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-02 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 2 January 2015 at 15:12, pops via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Regarding debuggers: keep in mind, windows debuggers are light years ahead of GDB and friends. What Linux people refer to as a debugger looks like a stone age tool to me. I'm pretty sure this is almost

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-02 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Fri, 02 Jan 2015 10:36:14 + dajones via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Friday, 2 January 2015 at 01:17:32 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Thu, 01 Jan 2015 12:55:28 + Gary Willoughby via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Just

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-02 Thread dajones via Digitalmars-d
On Friday, 2 January 2015 at 01:17:32 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Thu, 01 Jan 2015 12:55:28 + Gary Willoughby via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Just because you contribute to D it doesn't give you any authority to get angry at users or: that's really great.

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-02 Thread anonymous via Digitalmars-d
On Friday, 2 January 2015 at 16:35:17 UTC, dajones wrote: On Friday, 2 January 2015 at 13:46:00 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Fri, 02 Jan 2015 13:29:45 + dajones via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Jeez I feel old. then you'd better don't know how old i am...

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-02 Thread Vlad Levenfeld via Digitalmars-d
Reading this thread, one gets the impression that Dconf 2015 is better off taking place in an octagon-shaped cage than a university lecture hall...

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-01 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Thu, 01 Jan 2015 12:55:28 + Gary Willoughby via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Just because you contribute to D it doesn't give you any authority to get angry at users or: that's really great. Dicebot wrote a long text explaining that he is not a D dev team

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-01 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Fri, 02 Jan 2015 05:12:27 + pops via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Regarding debuggers: keep in mind, windows debuggers are light years ahead of GDB and friends. What Linux people refer to as a debugger looks like a stone age tool to me. ...and we, *nix

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-01 Thread pops via Digitalmars-d
Regarding debuggers: keep in mind, windows debuggers are light years ahead of GDB and friends. What Linux people refer to as a debugger looks like a stone age tool to me.

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-01 Thread jack via Digitalmars-d
+1 you are wright. i think, on the chance of being Willoughbeed, that there needs to be a real plan. It must include window users and a windows usable sdk. On Thursday, 1 January 2015 at 10:48:10 UTC, Joakim wrote: On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 19:11:04 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-01 Thread Joakim via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 19:11:04 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 12/29/14 10:58 AM, Joakim wrote: It also means more people asking for stuff, then doing nothing to contribute towards it, as though the D community is their slave labor. If we, the D community, want D to succeed, we

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-01 Thread Gary Willoughby via Digitalmars-d
On Wednesday, 31 December 2014 at 21:05:41 UTC, Dicebot wrote: So, getting back to this. What do I see wrong in this thread? It creates a clear message : you don't really want to be a D contributor. Once you start doing it, all privileges of doubt that belong to user are lost and bunch of

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-01 Thread Tobias Pankrath via Digitalmars-d
On Thursday, 1 January 2015 at 12:55:29 UTC, Gary Willoughby wrote: On Wednesday, 31 December 2014 at 21:05:41 UTC, Dicebot wrote: So, getting back to this. What do I see wrong in this thread? It creates a clear message : you don't really want to be a D contributor. Once you start doing it,

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-01 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 1 January 2015 at 23:54, Tobias Pankrath via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Thursday, 1 January 2015 at 13:25:53 UTC, Gary Willoughby wrote: On Thursday, 1 January 2015 at 13:20:46 UTC, Tobias Pankrath wrote: It's this way for years now, what the fuck are you guys

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-01 Thread Tobias Pankrath via Digitalmars-d
On Thursday, 1 January 2015 at 13:25:53 UTC, Gary Willoughby wrote: On Thursday, 1 January 2015 at 13:20:46 UTC, Tobias Pankrath wrote: It's this way for years now, what the fuck are you guys doing? I won't be doing anything, but you guys have to. --- Getting angry is totally natural. True.

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-01 Thread Gary Willoughby via Digitalmars-d
On Thursday, 1 January 2015 at 13:20:46 UTC, Tobias Pankrath wrote: It's this way for years now, what the fuck are you guys doing? I won't be doing anything, but you guys have to. --- Getting angry is totally natural. True. I hate seeing threads like this when Manu brings some really useful

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-01 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d
On 01/01/15 13:55, Gary Willoughby via Digitalmars-d wrote: I'm seriously considering writing a new blog article for reddit, highlighting the attitudes in this discussion because they are so seriously anti-success. I think that would be a bad idea, because the most likely result would be only

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-01 Thread dajones via Digitalmars-d
On Thursday, 1 January 2015 at 13:20:46 UTC, Tobias Pankrath wrote: On Thursday, 1 January 2015 at 12:55:29 UTC, Gary Willoughby wrote: Just because you contribute to D it doesn't give you any authority to get angry at users or: He does not need any permission to get angry. Don't forget that

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-01 Thread Daniel Davidson via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 05:43:13 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: Often I'll pipe the pretty-printed debug output to a file, as it can be voluminous, and then actually edit the file to bring out what I need. Not possible with a debugger. I think it is. Here is a small adjustment to

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-01 Thread Gary Willoughby via Digitalmars-d
On Thursday, 1 January 2015 at 14:24:36 UTC, Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 01/01/15 13:55, Gary Willoughby via Digitalmars-d wrote: I'm seriously considering writing a new blog article for reddit, highlighting the attitudes in this discussion because they are so seriously

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-01 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Fri, 02 Jan 2015 05:49:45 + pops via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Talks about switching from windows to Linux. There are positives, but the debugging is not one of them. *nix cultire and windows culture are very different. when switcher tries to use his windows

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-01 Thread pops via Digitalmars-d
...and we, *nix people, thinking the same... about windows debuggers. so please, don't call the tool you aren't familiar with stone age tool. https://anteru.net/2014/12/13/2596/ Talks about switching from windows to Linux. There are positives, but the debugging is not one of them.

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2015-01-01 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
Please let it go. There has been said enough to represent views of different parties, and argument for the sake of the argument is counterproductive.

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-31 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
On Tuesday, 30 December 2014 at 00:25:28 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: Criticism about documentation is actually very well-placed - it is an issue that affects everyone, can be fixed in small chunks and does not require huge effort investment for each chunk. No one loses, everyone wins, yay! I

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-31 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
So, getting back to this. What do I see wrong in this thread? It creates a clear message : you don't really want to be a D contributor. Once you start doing it, all privileges of doubt that belong to user are lost and bunch of obligations suddenly appears. And of all obligation worst

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-30 Thread Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d
On 12/29/14 8:54 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 12/29/14 4:25 PM, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/29/2014 8:51 AM, Dicebot wrote: On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 16:33:05 UTC, Joakim wrote: If anybody cared about good Windows debugging support or getting vibe.d working flawlessly on Windows,

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-30 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 12/30/14 4:30 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: Please, let's make the build of the documentation be an error on auto tester. I can say personally, there is so much more involved with building the docs than I care to deal with. You need all the repositories, and the dlang.org repository, which

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d
On 29 December 2014 at 03:52, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 12/28/14 6:43 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 27 December 2014 at 02:21, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 12/25/14 5:18 PM, Mike Parker

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread ponce via Digitalmars-d
On Saturday, 27 December 2014 at 08:32:29 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: It would also be nice to anticipate that people looking to operate on strings would look in std.string for things that are elsewhere. Once upon a time, the std.string docs actually did have a table of links for functions that

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Mathias LANG via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 09:35:25 UTC, Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d wrote: The new layout solves half the problem in that it hides the template constraints. http://dlang.org/library/std/algorithm/sort.html Shouldn't our focus also be to get the new layout out of preview mode and do

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
On Friday, 26 December 2014 at 01:11:42 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: Many bug reports and case studies, and often, a persistent voice for minority issues that don't get enough attention. My time spent arguing in this forum is substantial, and as annoying as it may seem, I think if I

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Gary Willoughby via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 14:45:37 UTC, Dicebot wrote: On Friday, 26 December 2014 at 01:11:42 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: Many bug reports and case studies, and often, a persistent voice for minority issues that don't get enough attention. My time spent arguing in this forum is

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 15:18:57 UTC, Gary Willoughby wrote: This is probably the most disgusting, selfish and deluded posts i've read on this entire newsgroup. I am pretty sure I have written worse. If D is supposed to supplant C/C++, then the needs of those users *must* be met,

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Joakim via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 15:18:57 UTC, Gary Willoughby wrote: This is probably the most disgusting, selfish and deluded posts i've read on this entire newsgroup. If D is supposed to supplant C/C++, then the needs of those users *must* be met, especially without deriding those very

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Gary Willoughby via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 16:07:59 UTC, Joakim wrote: I strongly disagree. Dicebot's post is completely true, describing exactly how open source projects actually work, No Dicebot described how open source projects *start*, big difference. I don't want to get into a massive argument

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Joakim via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 16:19:35 UTC, Gary Willoughby wrote: On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 16:07:59 UTC, Joakim wrote: I strongly disagree. Dicebot's post is completely true, describing exactly how open source projects actually work, No Dicebot described how open source projects

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 16:33:05 UTC, Joakim wrote: If anybody cared about good Windows debugging support or getting vibe.d working flawlessly on Windows, they'd have done it already. Now, Manu might bring more attention to those issues through his post and someone may decide to work

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 14:45:37 UTC, Dicebot wrote: Wasting effort of core contributors on a toolchain I will never use is against my interests and makes me naturally hostile about it. I don't think it needs to be a zero-sum game. Removing blockers to entry can make an

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Gary Willoughby via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 16:33:05 UTC, Joakim wrote: But Dicebot is right that users are not the concern of those outside a small core who contribute to D. Most contributors are just scratching their own itch, and users are just potential suckers who might add other features I want. ;)

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Joseph Rushton Wakeling via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 15:34:44 UTC, Dicebot wrote: On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 15:18:57 UTC, Gary Willoughby wrote: This is probably the most disgusting, selfish and deluded posts i've read on this entire newsgroup. I am pretty sure I have written worse. Time out, everyone. I

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Joakim via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 18:42:17 UTC, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote: On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 15:34:44 UTC, Dicebot wrote: This is widely advertised statement I can't agree with. For me goal is having working language that works. Getting users is indirect way to achieve that by

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 12/29/14 10:58 AM, Joakim wrote: On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 18:42:17 UTC, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote: On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 15:34:44 UTC, Dicebot wrote: This is widely advertised statement I can't agree with. For me goal is having working language that works. Getting users

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Mon, 29 Dec 2014 15:18:56 + Gary Willoughby via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: This is probably the most disgusting, selfish and deluded posts i've read on this entire newsgroup. fsck. i was sure that this was written about me. i sucked again. If D is supposed to

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
I'd better respond when I will not be as angry and tempted to go into accusation mode.

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Gary Willoughby via Digitalmars-d
On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 19:34:52 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: please, explain me, *whose* exactly post was disgusting, selfish and deluded? 'cause now i'm completely lost. Ok, i will explain because i think my point should be made clear and because this thread is giving

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Mon, 29 Dec 2014 20:09:08 + Gary Willoughby via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: D, as a project, already has a firmly entrenched goal and it's motivation is to reach that goal. Anyone contributing to D must acknowledge that goal and be prepared to sustain it through

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 12/29/2014 8:51 AM, Dicebot wrote: On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 16:33:05 UTC, Joakim wrote: If anybody cared about good Windows debugging support or getting vibe.d working flawlessly on Windows, they'd have done it already. Now, Manu might bring more attention to those issues through his

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d
On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 04:25:20PM -0800, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 12/29/2014 8:51 AM, Dicebot wrote: [...] Criticism about documentation is actually very well-placed - it is an issue that affects everyone, can be fixed in small chunks and does not require huge effort

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 29 December 2014 at 13:52, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 12/28/14 6:43 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 27 December 2014 at 02:21, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 12/25/14 5:18 PM, Mike Parker

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 29 December 2014 at 15:44, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 12/20/2014 10:08 AM, Daniel Davidson wrote: Sure, sounds like a winning strategy. Probably not applicable, but were you to run into an issue with vibe or websockets would you proceed to write

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 12/29/14 11:59 AM, Dicebot wrote: I'd better respond when I will not be as angry and tempted to go into accusation mode. Very much appreciated. All, please let's keep it civil. -- Andrei

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 12/29/14 4:25 PM, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/29/2014 8:51 AM, Dicebot wrote: On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 16:33:05 UTC, Joakim wrote: If anybody cared about good Windows debugging support or getting vibe.d working flawlessly on Windows, they'd have done it already. Now, Manu might bring

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 30 December 2014 at 04:08, Gary Willoughby via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 16:33:05 UTC, Joakim wrote: I don't think it needs to be a zero-sum game. Removing blockers to entry can make an orders-of-magnitude difference in the number of

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 30 December 2014 at 11:14, Manu turkey...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 December 2014 at 15:44, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 12/20/2014 10:08 AM, Daniel Davidson wrote: Sure, sounds like a winning strategy. Probably not applicable, but were you to run

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 12/29/2014 5:14 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: That if you don't have source to the library? (as is the overwhelming standard in my line of work) You can't instrument code that you don't have. It's always a big problem debugging inside code you don't have the source to. How is a

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 12/29/2014 4:49 PM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: I was away on vacation for a week, so couldn't work on this. What, not working on Christmas? How hard core are you? :-) I'll see if I can cook up a bunch of doc-related PR's this week. They *are* very low-hanging fruit that even

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-29 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 12/29/14 2:12 AM, ponce wrote: On Saturday, 27 December 2014 at 08:32:29 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: It would also be nice to anticipate that people looking to operate on strings would look in std.string for things that are elsewhere. Once upon a time, the std.string docs actually did have a

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-28 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 27 December 2014 at 02:21, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 12/25/14 5:18 PM, Mike Parker wrote: On 12/26/2014 9:48 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: Ironically, the string and algorithm functions are probably the worst offenders, but

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-28 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 12/28/14 6:43 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 27 December 2014 at 02:21, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 12/25/14 5:18 PM, Mike Parker wrote: On 12/26/2014 9:48 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: Ironically, the string and algorithm

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-28 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 12/28/2014 7:52 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Thanks, following your feedback I have recently submitted an enhancement request. Just for the sake of humblebragging, C#'s sort works only on arrays whereas D's sort (a) returns a statically-informed sorted range with specific primitives, (b) is

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-28 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 12/20/2014 6:04 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2014-12-19 20:20, Walter Bright wrote: No. It's attributable to I use different methods of debugging. The dmd source code is littered with debugging aids I've written. The classic example is having a pretty-printer for each data structure. I

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-28 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 12/20/2014 10:08 AM, Daniel Davidson wrote: Sure, sounds like a winning strategy. Probably not applicable, but were you to run into an issue with vibe or websockets would you proceed to write pretty printers for the supplied data structures, the returned data structures, etc, probably yes,

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-27 Thread Mike Parker via Digitalmars-d
On Friday, 26 December 2014 at 16:21:24 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I thought the std.algorithm stuff is decently documented. What would be the major pain points? -- Andrei It's fine for someone who is familiar enough with D to decipher it. Consider the documentation for sum. The first

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-27 Thread Daniel Murphy via Digitalmars-d
Mike Parker wrote in message news:wwonahubwyixrseqb...@forum.dlang.org... ElementEncodingType!(ElementType!RoR)[] join(RoR, R)(RoR ror, R sep) if (isInputRange!RoR isInputRange!(Unqual!(ElementType!RoR)) isInputRange!R is(Unqual!(ElementType!(ElementType!RoR)) == Unqual!(ElementType!R)));

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-27 Thread bearophile via Digitalmars-d
Daniel Murphy: I agree, the signatures are basically unreadable. In Scala they have added the @usecase annotation to face this problem: https://wiki.scala-lang.org/display/SW/Tags+and+Annotations From that page: @usecase simple definition In case the method definition is too complex, you

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-27 Thread Mike Parker via Digitalmars-d
On 12/27/2014 6:27 PM, Daniel Murphy wrote: Mike Parker wrote in message news:wwonahubwyixrseqb...@forum.dlang.org... ElementEncodingType!(ElementType!RoR)[] join(RoR, R)(RoR ror, R sep) if (isInputRange!RoR isInputRange!(Unqual!(ElementType!RoR)) isInputRange!R

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-27 Thread dajones via Digitalmars-d
docs... SortedRange!(Range, less) sort(alias less = a b, SwapStrategy ss = SwapStrategy.unstable, Range)(Range r) if ((ss == SwapStrategy.unstable (hasSwappableElements!Range || hasAssignableElements!Range) || ss != SwapStrategy.unstable hasAssignableElements!Range) isRandomAccessRange!Range

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-27 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 12/27/2014 12:32 AM, Mike Parker wrote: On Friday, 26 December 2014 at 16:21:24 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I thought the std.algorithm stuff is decently documented. What would be the major pain points? -- Andrei [...] Thank you for taking the time for a detailed accounting. This is

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-27 Thread Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d
On 2014-12-26 01:48, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: In this case, my colleague felt it was hard to understand the string functions, but he got through it (after sending me txt messages to ask questions). I recall making the same comments when I first started trying to do string manipulation in

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-27 Thread Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d
On 2014-12-27 09:32, Mike Parker wrote: The proverbial straw that prompted my blog rant back then was to do with std.string. I wanted to split a string on a specific character. So I looked in the std.string docs for a split function. There wasn't one. There's a 'splitLines' -- I don't recall if

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-27 Thread Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d
On 2014-12-27 09:32, Mike Parker wrote: auto split(R, E)(R r, E delim) if (isForwardRange!R is(typeof(ElementType!R.init == E.init))); auto split(alias isTerminator, R)(R r) if (isForwardRange!R is(typeof(unaryFun!isTerminator(r.front; Umm... all I want is to split a string on a specific

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-27 Thread ixid via Digitalmars-d
On Saturday, 27 December 2014 at 11:42:45 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2014-12-27 09:32, Mike Parker wrote: The proverbial straw that prompted my blog rant back then was to do with std.string. I wanted to split a string on a specific character. So I looked in the std.string docs for a split

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-27 Thread ketmar via Digitalmars-d
On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 12:46:09 +0100 Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: What we need is simplified signatures in the documentation. The template constrains could be hidden, then have a button to show them. Same thing with special default values, i.e. __FILE__,

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-27 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 12/27/2014 12:32 AM, Mike Parker wrote: Wtf is ElementType? Where is R defined? Searching the site for random-access range will eventually bear fruit, it doesn't help in understanding the whole function. A token improvement: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/pull/2812

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-27 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 12/26/2014 8:21 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I thought the std.algorithm stuff is decently documented. What would be the major pain points? -- Andrei A large number of the algorithms lack one or more of: 1. examples 2. any mention of what they return, and if they do, they do not use a

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-27 Thread David Nadlinger via Digitalmars-d
On Saturday, 27 December 2014 at 20:24:27 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: 4. some terms need exposition, like: Implements the homonym function present in various programming languages of functional flavor. I have no idea what that means. Googling homonym function doesn't produce anything that looks

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-27 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 12/27/2014 2:14 PM, David Nadlinger wrote: On Saturday, 27 December 2014 at 20:24:27 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: 4. some terms need exposition, like: Implements the homonym function present in various programming languages of functional flavor. I have no idea what that means. Googling homonym

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-27 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 12/27/14 12:32 AM, Mike Parker wrote: On Friday, 26 December 2014 at 16:21:24 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I thought the std.algorithm stuff is decently documented. What would be the major pain points? -- Andrei It's fine for someone who is familiar enough with D to decipher it.

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-27 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 12/27/14 3:42 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote: There's also split vs splitter and join vs joiner. This doesn't make it easier. Not to mention findSplit - my all-times favorite. -- Andrei

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-27 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d
On 12/27/2014 2:57 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 12/27/14 3:42 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote: There's also split vs splitter and join vs joiner. This doesn't make it easier. Not to mention findSplit - my all-times favorite. -- Andrei Just a minute Doc lets not start splitting hares!

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-26 Thread Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d
On 20 Dec 2014 20:40, Atila Neves via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: FWIW, I'd like to thank you for taking the time (and putting up with some undeserved abuse for it) to write about your experience in trying to get other people to adopt D. For some they might be known issues,

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-26 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
On 12/25/14 5:18 PM, Mike Parker wrote: On 12/26/2014 9:48 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: Ironically, the string and algorithm functions are probably the worst offenders, but coincidentally, there is a high chance that these are the first functions anyone will ever reach for, so they

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-25 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 19 December 2014 at 19:12, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 12/18/2014 2:24 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: Docs need to have examples which are plain and obvious, and the language will be absorbed by osmosis. I agree. Can you point to specific

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-25 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 21 December 2014 at 03:12, Martin Nowak via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 12/17/2014 09:45 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: Well... when? I've been here 6 years. When can I start to use D for my work? Other languages seem to have a higher velocity. Are we fighting a

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-25 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 20 December 2014 at 19:59, Dicebot via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Saturday, 20 December 2014 at 07:26:30 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: Thank you. I get so frustrated by the apparent majority in this forum who seem to think 'most' programmers are the type who

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-25 Thread Kiith-Sa via Digitalmars-d
Finally, contracts are overwhelming, and it's also a feature of D that nobody has seen before. When someone new to D encounters a contract in the docs, they no longer trust their ability to usefully interpret the documentation, and almost certainly become confused; nobody expects to see an

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-25 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 19 December 2014 at 23:45, Dicebot via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Friday, 19 December 2014 at 13:33:08 UTC, Wyatt wrote: On Friday, 19 December 2014 at 09:15:18 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/18/2014 2:24 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: People aren't allocated

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-25 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 26 December 2014 at 11:11, Kiith-Sa via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Finally, contracts are overwhelming, and it's also a feature of D that nobody has seen before. When someone new to D encounters a contract in the docs, they no longer trust their ability to usefully

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-25 Thread Mike Parker via Digitalmars-d
On 12/26/2014 9:48 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: Ironically, the string and algorithm functions are probably the worst offenders, but coincidentally, there is a high chance that these are the first functions anyone will ever reach for, so they present a terrible first impression. +1

Re: Lost a new commercial user this week :(

2014-12-20 Thread Dicebot via Digitalmars-d
On Saturday, 20 December 2014 at 07:26:30 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: Thank you. I get so frustrated by the apparent majority in this forum who seem to think 'most' programmers are the type who would even read or post on a forum like this. Or read a programming book! They must surely

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