Re: [IxDA Discuss] Office 2007 in 2006, two years later
The new products are always used by new users; that means the users that are right now working their way on Office 2003 will stay there till something happens; like change their PCs or Macs. The new users like the young people that will enter in college this year will be using Office 2007 and will be happy with it. @Lois: Your users will be using the old versions of your product till they feel the need to change; and when that happens they have to learn the new UI. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=35167 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Office 2007 in 2006, two years later
A classic menus add in? I guess I missed that email. Can someone please forward again? The absence of an ability for advanced, 17 year-users to elect to use the interface that they are familiar with is my biggest issue. Years ago, when Lotus moved from a command-based interface to a GUI interface, users had the ability to easily invoke the old command structure. This enabled us to maintain our productivity when that was critical and learn the new interface at our own pace...and to decide for ourselves which worked best for us for whicht tasks. The fact that a similar, simple mechanism was not built into Office 2007 was a blatant disregard for the existing user base. My productivity went down in excess of 25%. One of my most memorable examples is the Paste Special function (while using Excel). I am an avid user of keyboard shortcuts for the most common features. Thus, when I paste (regular paste), I use the keyboard shortcut. So, there would be no reason for me to take notice of a Paste button for 99% if my paste needs. However, I needed to use Paste Special one time and I know there is no keyboard shortcut for it so I needed go to into the Paste realm and find it within there. It took my about 7 minutes. Once I found it I thought, People would think I'm an idiot for not seeing that big button.. But here's why I looked at everything else but that button. The first of the 2007 products I was exposed to was Outlook. In Outlook, I noticed a new, big Send button. Ok that makles sense., I thought. But in Excel, a program that I know to also have a Send capability, that same button, in that same position, means Paste. So, I completely overlooked it thinking it was a Send button and went on a wild goose chase. Microsoft is too big of an organization to not take their huge, long- standing, user base's needs into serious consideration when embarking on such a massive change. My 2 cents... Or was that $20 worth? :) Thanks for anyone that can toss me the quickest link to the add in. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 2, 2008, at 12:31 PM, Yohan Creemers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the fact that Microsoft dared to change the interface so rigorously. The old interface with menus and toolbars wasn't perfect either. I guess that the ribbon is helping new and even intermediate users. But as a expert user I'm missing the fast overview a classic menu offers. I think the ribbon is a good concept, but too rigidly applied in the case of Office 2007. Some of the functions, like the advanced paragraph properties, don't fit within the concept and require a different interface design. I would say that it's possible to combine the benefits of the ribbon with the benefits of a classic menu. By the way: Jan, thanks for the link to Classic Menus Add In... - Yohan . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=35167 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Office 2007 in 2006, two years later
This doesn't take into account users in most corporate environments, who will get their software upgraded when the company sees fit, whether they like it or not. Cheers, Martin Polley Technical writer, interaction designer +972 52 3864280 Twitter: martinpolley http://capcloud.com/ On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 2:39 PM, Jose E. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The new products are always used by new users; that means the users that are right now working their way on Office 2003 will stay there till something happens; like change their PCs or Macs. ... Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Office 2007 in 2006, two years later
What I find most interesting about this question is how interface changes/enhancements affect an entrenched user base. It's the balance between old users and new users and an existing mental model vs. a new one. I'm all for a better interface - but I find myself still stalled using things I used to be totally comfortable with in Word like Table tools and Drawing tools. I'm currently working on a new and improved EAP product suite for my company. We are making radical changes including adding in a ribbon. As the lone User Experience person I keep voicing my concerns that we'll have low adoption from existing users simply BECAUSE the new UI is so different. It's sort of conundrum. The original UI was designed by the inmates in the asylum so its horrible - I want to radically improve it - but users have learned it. The ratio of existing users to new users is approximately 8 to 1 so there are many more who already know the product. What do you all think? How do you balance making it better with what users already know? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=35167 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Office 2007 in 2006, two years later
I personally think that new UI for the Office 2007 is a great idea. Yes, I had to readjust to new controls and their location, but after a little while I get used to it and look back at Office 2003 like it's a nightmare. You can really innovate much without breaking backward compatibility and this change was worth it all. -- Maxim Soloviev Director of Product Development www.nakea.net Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Office 2007 in 2006, two years later
A couple thoughts come to mind here: * Is it true that there's an 8-to-1 ratio of existing users to (potential) new users. That is, there will never be more than about 10% of the existing base having to learn it in the future? If so, it may not be worth trying to institute change, because you've got a super-mature, effectively dead (stagnant) product. If there's no one new coming in, there's little value in forcing new paradigms on the users. (On the other hand, if that added 10% is just the immediate new user base, and it will grow from there such that new users will eventually exceed current numbers, you can make a better business case.) * Have you done research as to what the breadth of feature usage is? If the current UI is regressive, or if there are a lot of features which are seldom accessed, then the ribbon-type UI might either have low impact on the majority of existing users (because they don't use many of the feature to start with) and could serve to open up some of the otherwise ignored features to a new audience. * Have you done research about what annoys current users -- especially the intermediate and above users? You may find that they feel limited or inhibited by the current UI and would actually welcome a new paradigm, even with a learning ramp. (I can think of a few apps that are like that, even some that I actively avoid using and do things the hard way to avoid them.) -- Jim, Seattle -Original Message- From: Lois Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] What I find most interesting about this question is how interface changes/enhancements affect an entrenched user base. It's the balance between old users and new users and an existing mental model vs. a new one. I'm all for a better interface - but I find myself still stalled using things I used to be totally comfortable with in Word like Table tools and Drawing tools. I'm currently working on a new and improved EAP product suite for my company. We are making radical changes including adding in a ribbon. As the lone User Experience person I keep voicing my concerns that we'll have low adoption from existing users simply BECAUSE the new UI is so different. It's sort of conundrum. The original UI was designed by the inmates in the asylum so its horrible - I want to radically improve it - but users have learned it. The ratio of existing users to new users is approximately 8 to 1 so there are many more who already know the product. What do you all think? How do you balance making it better with what users already know? Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Office 2007 in 2006, two years later
I've been curious, since the release of Office 2008, whether the absence of the ribbon is due to a reconsideration of its value, or simply the result of a different group within Microsoft having developed the suite for Mac OS X. Regardless, I'm not sure what the Mac Business Unit at MS might have been up to between 2004 and 2008. Very little has changed, and the integration with OS X is so poor (it often feels like you're working on a different platform) that I avoid using it whenever possible. iWork is a joy to use, in comparison. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=35167 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Office 2007 in 2006, two years later
Office 08 for Mac OS X is developed by a completely different team than the Office team for Windows. On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 7:47 PM, Chris Ryan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been curious, since the release of Office 2008, whether the absence of the ribbon is due to a reconsideration of its value, or simply the result of a different group within Microsoft having developed the suite for Mac OS X. Regardless, I'm not sure what the Mac Business Unit at MS might have been up to between 2004 and 2008. Very little has changed, and the integration with OS X is so poor (it often feels like you're working on a different platform) that I avoid using it whenever possible. iWork is a joy to use, in comparison. -- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.1281 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: semanticwill gtalk: semanticwill twitter: semanticwill skype: semanticwill - Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Office 2007 in 2006, two years later
Yes, Will, I know; that's why I wrote that I didn't know whether the absence of the ribbon from Office 2008 was the result of a different group within Microsoft having developed the suite for Mac OS X. I tend to think that the software is better in general for having been done by the Mac BU (does anyone remember the Word 6 port from Windows?), but it's still nowhere near a standard Mac user experience. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=35167 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Office 2007 in 2006, two years later
I like the fact that Microsoft dared to change the interface so rigorously. The old interface with menus and toolbars wasn't perfect either. I guess that the ribbon is helping new and even intermediate users. But as a expert user I'm missing the fast overview a classic menu offers. I think the ribbon is a good concept, but too rigidly applied in the case of Office 2007. Some of the functions, like the advanced paragraph properties, don't fit within the concept and require a different interface design. I would say that it's possible to combine the benefits of the ribbon with the benefits of a classic menu. By the way: Jan, thanks for the link to Classic Menus Add In... - Yohan . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=35167 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Office 2007 in 2006, two years later
Chris, The Mac Business Unit explains some of their rationale for the UI in this blog post: http://www.officeformac.com/blog/evolution-at-work ...and other posts tagged with Usability and Office 2008 User Experience. Basically, it's the second option you said. They see the value of the Ribbon, but they felt the UI on the Mac version was already headed a different direction. I'm curious what, specifically, feels like poor integration with OS X? For example, the version of Office 2008 that I bought came with a Microsoft application for photo management, and I worried that I would need to use their app if I wanted to easily integrate photos into my Office docs. But I was pleasantly surprised to see that all the Office apps have visibility into my iPhoto, iTunes, and iMovie libraries for importing media into my documents. So I'm just curious where you felt let down. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=35167 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Office 2007 in 2006, two years later
The Ribbon means it takes me more clicks to do just about anything. Sorry, fail. On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 2:43 AM, Will Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Some might have been favorable - I thought the Office 2007 redesign was terrible - so much so that as soon as I could afford it, I bought a Mac - Specifically b/c of the redesigned GUI in Office 07 - and mostly b/c of the ribbon. -- Martin Polley Technical writer, interaction designer +972 52 3864280 Twitter: martinpolley http://capcloud.com/ Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Office 2007 in 2006, two years later
Some might have been favorable - I thought the Office 2007 redesign was terrible - so much so that as soon as I could afford it, I bought a Mac - Specifically b/c of the redesigned GUI in Office 07 - and mostly b/c of the ribbon. On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:38 PM, Jan Cohen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Back toward the end of 2006, there was some fairly favorable discussion about the changes in Office 2007's GUI's (ref. http://www.ixda.org/discuss.php?post=12762). It's two years later now, and at least one segment of users that I know has a lot of mixed feelings about those changes. Specifically, technical communicators. Indeed, since Office 2007 was introduced, add-ons like AddInTools' Classic Menus for Office 2007 (http://tinyurl.com/36thmw) were introduced to offset what might be considered usability issues with the new version of Office; and Microsoft themselves have introduced Flash-based online help tools mapping the functionality between Office's older and newer GUIs (e.g., http://tinyurl.com/y85r6y). In that thousands of hours of usability work apparently went into Office 2007 before its introduction, what do you folks think... was the effort successful, is it more a matter of the demographics (personas?) associated with folks like, e.g., technical communicators? -- ~ will Where you innovate, how you innovate, and what you innovate are design problems - Will Evans | User Experience Architect tel: +1.617.281.1281 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim: semanticwill gtalk: semanticwill twitter: semanticwill skype: semanticwill - Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Office 2007 in 2006, two years later
Personally, I've learned to live with it, mostly by virtue of right-click menus (some increased functionality in Office 2007 Word and PPT, which I have to use for the occasional company presentation, is what encouraged me to upgrade in the first place). Certainly adoption should not be based on this is what we have and deal with it shoehorning, but that seems to be the way with Windows and MS apps. But I never thought the original UI was good enough to warrant installing a plugin to call back the old layout. I do work with technical and press writers who have gone back to 2003 after getting frustrated with the 2007 interface, however. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=35167 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
