Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

On 3 Aug 2017, at 09:04, Xavier Brochard wrote: > > A lightweight browser for reading docs is good _only_ if the engine is embed > in the documentation browser There are some other places where a lightweight embedded HTML engine would be good. For example, I use

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

A lightweight browser for reading docs is good _only_ if the engine is embed in the documentation browser — see what kde has done with konqueror. Otherwise it doesn't make sense to launch 2 browsers (Firefox for "monstrosities" and a second, lightweight one, for docs and lightweight sites),

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

Context of this discussion is offering a representative desktop to users. It started due to comments on osnews, right? If we are discussing what kind of browser we would have to offer to make comments less negative, then something that cannot run "monstrosities" is not the answer. Actual users

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

Hi, Ivan Vučica wrote: That is, if we added manhours which we don't quite have, and SWK could become usable on, say, top 50 sites of the modern web, it would no longer be lightweight Would you consider it lightweight once it could run Facebook desktop experience? Or Google Docs? No matter

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

Oh, and similar comment applies to Dillo. I know little of NetSurf. On Wed, Aug 2, 2017, 19:50 Ivan Vučica wrote: > As discussed previously :) I have come to agree that having SWK is a good > lightweight idea, but I'm just not sure that it would be as "simple" if it > started

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

As discussed previously :) I have come to agree that having SWK is a good lightweight idea, but I'm just not sure that it would be as "simple" if it started to support all a common user expects in a browser. That is, if we added manhours which we don't quite have, and SWK could become usable on,

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

Hi, Ivan Vučica wrote: WebKit is a good candidate, just, let's not present it as a lightweight project because it's anything but. that is why I liked SWK approach so much: with the same interfaces, a lightweight engine. Almost hot-pluggable :) Alternatives would be to "port" a lightweight

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

I'm not discarding, I'm saying that there is a lot of work. If we are interested in non-steppy browsers, it's not hard to embed Chromium/Blink using CAF, nor is it hard to just be silly and reparent an X11 browser window. Or, well, just use a web engine inside its common host browser. If we are

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

Le 02 août, 15:43:30 Riccardo Mottola a écrit : > A quick browser is always good to browse documentation or such... For that purpose, Dillo looks better Xavier ___ Discuss-gnustep mailing list Discuss-gnustep@gnu.org

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

I don't have evidence for that one way or another, but the point stands that the Mac port uses CALayer. I was stating that featuresets are so striking that even without looking at the code I can guess there is a tight interaction between DOM and CALayers. On Wed, Aug 2, 2017, 15:20 David Chisnall

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

On Wed, Aug 02, 2017 at 03:14:28PM +0200, Liam Proven wrote: > > It's a neat little browser but it doesn't support Javascript, so it's > very limited on the modern web. Depends upon what one wants. My day to day browsing tends to be in Firefox with noscript installed, and most everything works.

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

On 2 Aug 2017, at 14:42, Ivan Vučica wrote: > > WebKit's Mac port uses loads of APIs that are available only under macOS, > too. It should not come as a surprise that it heavily relies on Core > Animation, for example, if you compare CA with some of the more recent >

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

On 2 August 2017 at 15:42, Ivan Vučica wrote: > WebKit's Mac port uses loads of APIs that are available only under macOS, > too. It should not come as a surprise that it heavily relies on Core > Animation, for example, if you compare CA with some of the more recent > additions

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

On Wed 2 Aug 2017 at 14:14, Liam Proven wrote: > On 1 August 2017 at 15:50, Derek Fawcus > wrote: > > > > I recently stumbled across NetSurf [0], which currently has OSX support > > (but is about to have it dropped due to it always

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

Hi, On 08/02/17 15:14, Liam Proven wrote: (Another niche OS and desktop I follow. This is the Linux version of the desktop: http://rox.sourceforge.net/desktop/ ) It's a neat little browser but it doesn't support Javascript, so it's very limited on the modern web. I wanted to fill that

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

On 1 August 2017 at 15:50, Derek Fawcus wrote: > > I recently stumbled across NetSurf [0], which currently has OSX support > (but is about to have it dropped due to it always breaking), and pondered > how difficult it'd be to get workig on gnustep. > >

Re: bindings to non-ObjC [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

On 1 Aug 2017, at 19:12, Graham Lee wrote: > > There are two Smalltalk bindings I know of too, StepTalk and GNU Smalltalk. I also wrote a JIT / AoT compiler that used the ObjC ABI, though the code is sadly somewhat bitrotted. I hope to have time to resurrect it at some

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

Hello Steven, I have a very similar use-case to yours, and would not mind helping with testing your themes, xrandr app, other things. And do you come to irc? What timezone are you in? There is TalkSoup, it allows you to connect to freenode and join #gnustep if you like this method of

bindings to non-ObjC [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

On 01/08/2017 15:52, Matt Rice wrote: On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 2:18 AM, David Chisnall wrote: On 31 Jul 2017, at 20:43, Liam Proven wrote: GNUstep apps can _only_ be written in Objective-C? Kind of. They can only be written in a language that has good

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 2:18 AM, David Chisnall wrote: > On 31 Jul 2017, at 20:43, Liam Proven wrote: >> >> GNUstep apps can _only_ be written in Objective-C? > > Kind of. They can only be written in a language that has good bridging to > Objective-C[++].

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 09:48:08PM +0200, Riccardo Mottola wrote: > > Sadly firefox is moving to a quite ugly UI without menus, preferences inside > panes.. Lately, I've been using Palemoon on the Mac; this is 'cause I'm expecting Classic Theme Restorer to soon cease wotking in the next

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 08:01:42PM +0200, Steven R. Baker wrote: > > My computing needs are simple: I need a mail client, a calendar, an > address book, a web browser, and emacs. I need a few other things, but > I'll make those myself. The basics are listed here. GNUstep already has >

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

On 31 Jul 2017, at 20:58, Steven R. Baker wrote: > > PulseAudio is pretty ubiquitous these days, so a PA-coupled Sound Prefs app > would be reasonable. Wifi is a different ball of wax entirely, but I think > the hard work there is in getting the UI right, and we could

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

On 31 Jul 2017, at 20:43, Liam Proven wrote: > > GNUstep apps can _only_ be written in Objective-C? Kind of. They can only be written in a language that has good bridging to Objective-C[++]. All of the interfaces are exposed as Objective-C objects, but there are bridges

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

Also, `id -u` to get current UID `ps -o uid -p $PID | awk 'END{print $1}'` to get the UID owning process ID $PID. These work on at least Solaris and Linux, and probably many others. --Robert > On Jul 31, 2017, at 18:49, Ivan Vučica wrote: > > > >> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 11:16 PM Bertrand Gmail < bertrand.dekoni...@gmail.com> wrote: > Le 31/07/2017 à 20:02, Steven R. Baker a écrit : > > Any chance you could document your setup with screenshots and code? A > > blog, perhaps? Or a video? This overlaps *very much* with some stuff > > I'm

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

That hack would result in integrating with dbus-menu. We'd want some GNUstep app that draws global menus published via dbus-menu, and we'd also want our apps publish menus via dbus-menu. Gtk and Qt apps, as well as Firefox and Java, have already been taught how to publish stuff on dbus-menu, so

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

Le 31/07/2017 à 20:02, Steven R. Baker a écrit : Any chance you could document your setup with screenshots and code? A blog, perhaps? Or a video? This overlaps *very much* with some stuff I'm doing right now, and I'd love to see what you've got, and what's left. I'll try to put

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

On 31/07/17 10:19 PM, Liam Proven wrote: On 31 July 2017 at 21:58, Steven R. Baker wrote: Firefox's UI is highly configurable, so I think it can be made to look "close enough". But you're right, Firefox looking firefox-y means it won't be a stumbling block for people.

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

On 31 July 2017 at 21:58, Steven R. Baker wrote: > > Firefox's UI is highly configurable, so I think it can be made to look > "close enough". But you're right, Firefox looking firefox-y means it won't > be a stumbling block for people. We can ignore the web browser issue

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

On 31/07/17 09:48 PM, Riccardo Mottola wrote: Hi, On 31/07/2017 20:01, Steven R. Baker wrote: My computing needs are simple: I need a mail client, a calendar, an address book, a web browser, and emacs. I need a few other things, but I'll make those myself. The basics are listed here.

Re: Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

Hi, On 31/07/2017 20:01, Steven R. Baker wrote: My computing needs are simple: I need a mail client, a calendar, an address book, a web browser, and emacs. I need a few other things, but I'll make those myself. The basics are listed here. GNUstep already has excellent options for each of

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

On 31 July 2017 at 21:20, Riccardo Mottola wrote: > Hi Liam, > > > you actually sum up several of GNUstep's goal, but at the same time, the > issues to show it of.. Er, good? :-) > On 31/07/2017 15:56, Liam Proven wrote: >> >> The main concern is if installing a 5MB

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

Hi. Fred, thanks a lot for your Linux OBS work: it is also useful as a build test. On 31/07/2017 19:05, Xavier Brochard wrote: That's why a little how-to is necessary! It would start with For a good experience try with - freeBSD - Fedora - SuSE - forget Debian and derivative Install this

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

Hi Liam, you actually sum up several of GNUstep's goal, but at the same time, the issues to show it of.. On 31/07/2017 15:56, Liam Proven wrote: The main concern is if installing a 5MB app sucks in 500MB of dependencies and thrashes the disk for 10sec when you load it. The issue is that

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

Hi On 31/07/2017 15:20, David Chisnall wrote: Also, as a sysadmin I have many friends developers who ask to macOs compatibility. Then I talk about GNUstep but they ask "show me, show me something that works" and they mean show me a complete environment because they want to be convinced that

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

Hi All, good that we have a civilized discussion. On 31/07/2017 13:04, Ivan Vučica wrote: It's slightly unfortunate we don't have one yet, but Live CDs like this are a good thing to address this problem. I need to try it out... :) The other reference was the Live VM image, very nice and

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

Any chance you could document your setup with screenshots and code? A blog, perhaps? Or a video? This overlaps *very much* with some stuff I'm doing right now, and I'd love to see what you've got, and what's left. Cheers! -Steven On 31/07/17 05:36 PM, Bertrand Dekoninck wrote: Hi Riccardo

Boiling the Oceans [was Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

This thread tangent has come along at a very convenient time for me, because I've spent some time over my vacation planning out and designing a GNUstep-based desktop. I'm going to write a bit about that here. My computing needs are simple: I need a mail client, a calendar, an address book, a

Re: Little how-to to build a usable desktop [was : Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

On 31 Jul 2017, at 18:21, Xavier Brochard wrote: > > Now, people who wants to help me to write a little how-to about a very simple > Desktop using GNUstep apps, libs and themes, please contribute here. > If you disagree, please remember that this is only a private and

Little how-to to build a usable desktop [was : Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews]

Le 31 juillet, 18:12:30 Ivan Vučica a écrit : > On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 6:05 PM, Xavier Brochard > > wrote: > > Le 31 juillet, 18:46:22 Fred Kiefer a écrit : > > > That just shows the main issue we have. People, even the one interested > > > > in > > > > > GNUstep, are

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 6:05 PM, Xavier Brochard wrote: > Le 31 juillet, 18:46:22 Fred Kiefer a écrit : > > That just shows the main issue we have. People, even the one interested > in > > GNUstep, are not aware of what is already there. > > That's why a little how-to is

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

Le 31 juillet, 18:46:22 Fred Kiefer a écrit : > That just shows the main issue we have. People, even the one interested in > GNUstep, are not aware of what is already there. That's why a little how-to is necessary! It would start with For a good experience try with - freeBSD - Fedora - SuSE -

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

Hi Liam, > Am 31.07.2017 um 15:31 schrieb Liam Proven : > > However, soon I will start a contract job with SUSE, so I may see if I > can build one using SUSE instead. This would solve the issue of > missing system-administration tools, as SUSE has its own complete > integrated

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

> > Hi Riccardo > > One problem is that the GNUstep project has nearly nothing to show to end > users (except screenshots and descriptions). As a consequence a lot of people > doesn't understand the project. They want to do a quick try but they can't. > (in France we have the great

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

Le 31 juillet, 14:20:27 David Chisnall a écrit : > On 31 Jul 2017, at 12:58, Xavier Brochard wrote: > > I don't think it's a loosing battle as long as it is kept light. LXDE, > > LXQt, and XFCE are successful while they offer far less "fun" than the > > big ones. > There’s

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

On 31 Jul 2017, at 14:56, Liam Proven wrote: > > On 31 July 2017 at 15:20, David Chisnall wrote: >> On 31 Jul 2017, at 12:58, Xavier Brochard wrote: >>> >>> I don't think it's a loosing battle as long as it is kept light. LXDE,

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

On 31 July 2017 at 15:20, David Chisnall wrote: > On 31 Jul 2017, at 12:58, Xavier Brochard wrote: >> >> I don't think it's a loosing battle as long as it is kept light. LXDE, LXQt, >> and XFCE are successful while they offer far less "fun" than the big

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

On 31 July 2017 at 12:38, Xavier Brochard wrote: > > Hi Riccardo > > One problem is that the GNUstep project has nearly nothing to show to end > users (except screenshots and descriptions). As a consequence a lot of people > doesn't understand the project. They want to do a

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

On 31 Jul 2017, at 12:58, Xavier Brochard wrote: > > I don't think it's a loosing battle as long as it is kept light. LXDE, LXQt, > and XFCE are successful while they offer far less "fun" than the big ones. There’s one thing that these all have in common: they’re

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

Le 31 juillet, 11:04:44 Ivan Vučica a écrit : > On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 11:41 AM Xavier Brochard > > wrote: > > One problem is that the GNUstep project has nearly nothing to show to end > > users (except screenshots and descriptions). As a consequence a lot of > > people >

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

Le 31 juillet 12:11:51, vous avez écrit : > On 31 Jul 2017, at 11:38, Xavier Brochard wrote: > > As I've always wanted to work on a light desktop using GNUstep, I propose > > to work on this : > > Even if the project is not about building a desktop, a lots of components > >

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

On 31 Jul 2017, at 11:38, Xavier Brochard wrote: > > As I've always wanted to work on a light desktop using GNUstep, I propose to > work on this : > Even if the project is not about building a desktop, a lots of components are > already present. My idea is to write a

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 11:41 AM Xavier Brochard wrote: > > One problem is that the GNUstep project has nearly nothing to show to end > users (except screenshots and descriptions). As a consequence a lot of > people > doesn't understand the project. They want to do a quick

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

Le 30 juillet, 12:13:06 Riccardo Mottola a écrit : > Hi, > > On 2017-07-29 19:42:02 +0200 Ivan Vučica wrote: > > \o/ > > > > On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 2:42 PM Liam Proven wrote: > >> http://www.osnews.com/story/29939/GNUSTEP_live_CD_2_5_released > >> > >>

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

Hi, On 2017-07-29 19:42:02 +0200 Ivan Vučica wrote: > \o/ > > On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 2:42 PM Liam Proven wrote: > >> http://www.osnews.com/story/29939/GNUSTEP_live_CD_2_5_released > >> Also, there's a new release of GNUstep Live! :-) > "cool": the

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

Just don't read the comment section. On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 12:42 PM Ivan Vučica wrote: > \o/ > > On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 2:42 PM Liam Proven wrote: > >> http://www.osnews.com/story/29939/GNUSTEP_live_CD_2_5_released >> >> Also, there's a new release of

Re: GNUstep Live on OSnews

\o/ On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 2:42 PM Liam Proven wrote: > http://www.osnews.com/story/29939/GNUSTEP_live_CD_2_5_released > > Also, there's a new release of GNUstep Live! :-) > > -- > Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google

GNUstep Live on OSnews

http://www.osnews.com/story/29939/GNUSTEP_live_CD_2_5_released Also, there's a new release of GNUstep Live! :-) -- Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: