Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Given these constraints, seems like a GNUStep-maintained apt repository is the answer, right? If you want the GCC packages, you can get them from Debian. If you want libobjc2/clang packages, you install the GNUStep apt repository. I remember seeing the idea of an apt repository discussed awhile

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

On Wed, 22 Dec 2021 22:54:32 +0200, Ivan Vučica wrote: > On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 9:34 AM Andreas Fink wrote: > > packages in Debian are quite old > > Inaccurate. It is both accurate and inaccurate. More precisely, at times it is accurate and at times it is inaccurate; it also depends what

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Liam, On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 8:54 AM Liam Proven wrote: > On Fri, 24 Dec 2021 at 13:31, Gregory Casamento > wrote: > > > > ??? I'm wondering why Cocoa wouldn't be well known. > > As I always keep saying: my interest (here, there are others!) is > operating systems, and the article was about

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Hi, Gregory Casamento wrote: > Also NeXTSTEP is NOT what we are aiming for.  just to nitpick - at most OpenStep / OPENSTEP; also in that case we moved forward with an eye to Cocoa. While NeXT was the same company, NeXTSTEP really was an older version of the framework which we follow in "spirit

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Hi, Ivan Vučica wrote: > On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 3:48 PM Liam Proven wrote: >> GNUstep also has a packaging system, which is the reason I discussed >> it in my article. > I'm unaware of a packaging system in GNUstep; I admit not to know of > everything or keeping up with everything in GNUstep,

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

On Fri, 24 Dec 2021 at 13:31, Gregory Casamento wrote: > > ??? I'm wondering why Cocoa wouldn't be well known. As I always keep saying: my interest (here, there are others!) is operating systems, and the article was about software packaging for Linux distributions and the subsequent piece was

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Liam, On Thu, Dec 23, 2021 at 7:31 PM Liam Proven wrote: > On Thu, 23 Dec 2021 at 00:07, Gregory Casamento > wrote: > > > > Excellent article, but I have to say that saying GNUstep as an > implementation of NeXTSTEP is half our issue. It would be better to say > it is an implementation of

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

On Thu, 23 Dec 2021 at 00:07, Gregory Casamento wrote: > > Excellent article, but I have to say that saying GNUstep as an > implementation of NeXTSTEP is half our issue. It would be better to say it > is an implementation of Cocoa. Thank you! It was only a brief mention and the piece was

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Hugo, Yes, I know this. The point is that between Foundation and AppKit, almost all of the classes and methods which were missing (up to 10.15) have been written by myself and others over the last few years. We have a CoreData, and CoreGraphics (Opal) implementation, granted the last two are

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Le 22.12.2021 23:00, Ivan Vučica a écrit : I mean here's a realistic wishlist: - A desktop session - ship a package that contains /usr/share/xsessions/gnustep-desktop.desktop e.g. 'gnustep-session' or 'gnustep-desktop-session' - have it start our chosen WM, gworkspace with dock, a global

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Cocoa is not only AppKit but also the CoreGraphics and CoreData Integration. We have no upstream Integration for the newer frameworks. On December 23, 2021 1:01:43 AM GMT+01:00, Gregory Casamento wrote: >On Wed, Dec 22, 2021 at 18:13 Ivan Vučica wrote: > >> Well, some parts of. > >

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Also NeXTSTEP is NOT what we are aiming for. On Wed, Dec 22, 2021 at 18:13 Ivan Vučica wrote: > Well, some parts of. > > On Wed, Dec 22, 2021 at 11:07 PM Gregory Casamento > wrote: > > > > “Ironically, Linux could easily have had much the same because all the > functionality already exists in

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

On Wed, Dec 22, 2021 at 18:13 Ivan Vučica wrote: > Well, some parts of. Apparently you haven’t looked lately. > > On Wed, Dec 22, 2021 at 11:07 PM Gregory Casamento > wrote: > > > > “Ironically, Linux could easily have had much the same because all the > functionality already exists in

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Well, some parts of. On Wed, Dec 22, 2021 at 11:07 PM Gregory Casamento wrote: > > “Ironically, Linux could easily have had much the same because all the > functionality already exists in GNUstep, the venerable FOSS rewrite of > NeXTstep's core libraries.“ > > Liam, > > Excellent article, but

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

“Ironically, Linux could easily have had much the same because all the functionality already exists in GNUstep , the venerable FOSS rewrite of NeXTstep's core libraries.“ Liam, Excellent article, but I have to say that saying GNUstep as an implementation of NeXTSTEP is

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

On Wed, 22 Dec 2021 at 23:01, Ivan Vučica wrote: > > > I'm unaware of a packaging system in GNUstep; I admit not to know of > everything or keeping up with everything in GNUstep, however. > > I'm also unaware of the article being referred to; I admit not to > reading the entire (excessively long)

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 3:48 PM Liam Proven wrote: > GNUstep also has a packaging system, which is the reason I discussed > it in my article. I'm unaware of a packaging system in GNUstep; I admit not to know of everything or keeping up with everything in GNUstep, however. I'm also unaware of

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 9:34 AM Andreas Fink wrote: > > packages in Debian are quite old Inaccurate. At release times, I usually try to coordinate with Debian packagers. This time, it took a bit longer, but uploads happened in November and December. See links below. Thank you, Yavor and

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 at 22:05, Riccardo Mottola wrote: > > For the end-user how just wants to install the applications, which is what we > are here discussing, doesn't care the runtime and language used, they just > want to install and run the packages. No, I disagree. There remains a huge

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Hi, Am Freitag, Dezember 17, 2021 22:48 CET, schrieb Riccardo Mottola : > Hi Liam, > > On 2021-12-16 17:22:07 +0100 Liam Proven wrote: > > > > >> To my knowledge it is outdated, last referenced version I see is 2017. > > > > That's odd. I do not see the message you're replying to in this

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

On FreeBSD, I think it was David Chisnall, who maintained packages for GNUstep, and most of the existing GNUstep applications. Everything installed with 2 commands. Then a FreeBSD-upgrade finally left the system in an unusable state. Not wanting to spend another few hours to reinstall, I went to

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Le 17.12.2021 22:48, Riccardo Mottola a écrit : On 2021-12-16 17:22:07 +0100 Liam Proven wrote: No, not BSD; while I admire all the BSDs, they are not beginner-friendly OSes. Debatable… I use all of them, and was amazed at how "easy" BSDs have become. True, you need not to fear the command

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Hi Xavier, On 2021-12-17 16:15:24 +0100 Xavier Brochard wrote: Fred Kiefer was maintaining a lot of gqood packages for OpenSuSE in the past https://build.opensuse.org/project/show/X11:GNUstep Yes, that was wondeful job he used to do and also helped catch errors with the builds! I do not

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Hi, On 2021-12-17 12:38:13 +0100 Riccardo Canalicchio wrote: What about using github automations for building the packages? I am not sure but i think we could also use github pages for hosting, i found a tutorial on how to set it up but it's from 2017 not sure if it's still valid:

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Hi, On 2021-12-17 12:33:35 +0100 Andreas Fink wrote: > The question is also how often new packages should be built and how the > releases should be streamlined. Since we are targeting end-users, I would package only released and so rebuild each time a release is built. However bleeding edge

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Hi Liam, On 2021-12-16 17:22:07 +0100 Liam Proven wrote: > >> To my knowledge it is outdated, last referenced version I see is 2017. > > That's odd. I do not see the message you're replying to in this thread. > > Anyway, yes, there was a demo LiveCD, and also a (IMHO very cluttered) VM >

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Hi, On 2021-12-17 10:57:34 +0100 H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: That is why I propose the idea to provide a separate, maintained repository outside of debian.org but compatible to it... Exactly what I just proposed. What I don't know if how you can with multiple repositories offer an

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Hi, On 2021-12-17 10:33:58 +0100 Andreas Fink wrote: > packages in Debian are quite old and don't support objc2.0. So they are > not suitable for new development. > I always build my own packages due to that. > Btw who is the Debian maintainer for the gnustep builds? For the end-user how just

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Le 17.12.2021 13:32, Liam Proven a écrit : On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 at 13:24, Xavier Brochard wrote: The problem is the desktop. GNUStep as a desktop is far from perfect (see past discussions). Yes, this is true. But on the other hand, I used LXQt for a while, and it is far from perfect too.

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Le 16.12.2021 17:22, Liam Proven a écrit : I submit we need installable binary packages for at least 1 current, mainstream Linux distro, making it as easy to get a GNUstep system up and running as it is to get any other Linux desktop environment. Fred Kiefer was maintaining a lot of gqood

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Le 17.12.2021 13:17, Liam Proven a écrit : On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 at 13:11, Xavier Brochard wrote: Debian and Ubuntu based distros are the most current at end users home to day (according to distrowatch) I believe so. I have tried many many distros in my work and regularly install new ones, and

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

What about using github automations for building the packages? I am not sure but i think we could also use github pages for hosting, i found a tutorial on how to set it up but it's from 2017 not sure if it's still valid: https://pmateusz.github.io/linux/2017/06/30/linux-secure-apt-repository.html

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

I can set up another repository server for it easily. I have my own hosting service so hardware is not an issue. The question is also how often new packages should be built and how the releases should be streamlined. This is more an organisational question than a technical one. Best would be if

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

> Am 17.12.2021 um 11:19 schrieb Andreas Fink : > > > > H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote on 17.12.21 10:57: >> >>> Am 17.12.2021 um 10:33 schrieb Andreas Fink : >>> >>> packages in Debian are quite old and don't support objc2.0. So they are >>> not suitable for new development. >>> I always

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote on 17.12.21 10:57: > >> Am 17.12.2021 um 10:33 schrieb Andreas Fink : >> >> packages in Debian are quite old and don't support objc2.0. So they are >> not suitable for new development. >> I always build my own packages due to that. > That is why I propose the idea to

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

> Am 17.12.2021 um 10:33 schrieb Andreas Fink : > > packages in Debian are quite old and don't support objc2.0. So they are > not suitable for new development. > I always build my own packages due to that. That is why I propose the idea to provide a separate, maintained repository outside of

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

packages in Debian are quite old and don't support objc2.0. So they are not suitable for new development. I always build my own packages due to that. Btw who is the Debian maintainer for the gnustep builds? Svetlana Tkachenko wrote on 16.12.21 22:45: > Hi Riccardo > >>> 'gnustep live cd' is

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Hi Riccardo > > 'gnustep live cd' is already a good reference distribution, is it not? > > http://wiki.gnustep.org/index.php/GNUstep_Live_CD i am asking because in > > some of the discussions above, it seems that there are some references to > > that a reference distribution does not exist >

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Unmaintained and out of date. Also it's motto is "It's so... square and gray." So... yeah. On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 6:41 PM Svetlana Tkachenko wrote: > 'gnustep live cd' is already a good reference distribution, is it not? > http://wiki.gnustep.org/index.php/GNUstep_Live_CD i am asking

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

On Thu, 16 Dec 2021 at 16:41, Riccardo Mottola wrote: > > Svetlana Tkachenko wrote: > > 'gnustep live cd' is already a good reference distribution, is it not? > > http://wiki.gnustep.org/index.php/GNUstep_Live_CD i am asking because in > > some of the discussions above, it seems that there are

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Hello Svetlana, Svetlana Tkachenko wrote: > 'gnustep live cd' is already a good reference distribution, is it not? > http://wiki.gnustep.org/index.php/GNUstep_Live_CD i am asking because in some > of the discussions above, it seems that there are some references to that a > reference

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

'gnustep live cd' is already a good reference distribution, is it not? http://wiki.gnustep.org/index.php/GNUstep_Live_CD i am asking because in some of the discussions above, it seems that there are some references to that a reference distribution does not exist thank you for your time

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Hi Liam, > On 14 Dec 2021, at 14:17, Liam Proven wrote: > > On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 at 00:08, Sergii Stoian wrote: >> >> For the sake of truth - NextSpace has 3 binary releases (RPMs). Please look >> carefully here https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace/releases. >> Last 0.90 release support 3

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Hi Greg, Happy you like the idea of the Download / Fast Script version. As an example of what I have in mind is RunKit.com—which happens to have been made by Tolmasky—a fellow Objective-C lover. His work on promoting Cappuccino and Cocoa did not see widespread commercial success but via

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Hi, Graham Lee wrote: > Hi all, > > > *From: * Riccardo Mottola > *To: * Liam Proven , discuss-gnustep > > *Sent: * 14/12/2021 3:29 PM > *Subject: * Re: GNUstep on Hackernews > > > They evaluated us and discarded GNUstep on what basis? I had no > in

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Hi Gustavo, Gustavo Tavares wrote: > The Distribuition is a big cherry on top which to my eye, distracts > from the power offered by the DevKit. > > This is the best DevKit. you just proved what I wrote long ago. GNUstep has many souls: it is a DevKit. It is the basis of a possible (or more than

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

; Hi all, > > > *From: * Riccardo Mottola > * To: * Liam Proven , discuss-gnustep < > discuss-gnustep@gnu.org> > * Sent: * 14/12/2021 3:29 PM > * Subject: * Re: GNUstep on Hackernews > > > They evaluated us and discarded GNUstep on what basis? I had no >

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

t; >> >> *From: * Riccardo Mottola >> * To: * Liam Proven , discuss-gnustep >> >> * Sent: * 14/12/2021 3:29 PM >> * Subject: * Re: GNUstep on Hackernews >> >>> >>> They evaluated us and discarded GNUstep on what basis? I had no >

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 at 15:42, H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: > > A different approach is not a GSUbuntu but providing GS as an alternative > to Gnome, KDE, Mate, Xfce4, LXDE and numerous others. > > Quantumstep does it that way. It has a dedicated and maintained package > repository where it is

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 at 15:27, Riccardo Mottola wrote: > It is a high burden to maintain, there was one official, one > not-official... I agree that it is useful, but I consider having ready > working packages of quality of much higher impact. When I post about or write about GNUstep, people are

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

roven , discuss-gnustep < > discuss-gnustep@gnu.org> > * Sent: * 14/12/2021 3:29 PM > * Subject: * Re: GNUstep on Hackernews > > > They evaluated us and discarded GNUstep on what basis? I had no > interaction with any of them nor did i see things on the mailing list.

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Hi all, From: Riccardo Mottola To: Liam Proven , discuss-gnustep Sent: 14/12/2021 3:29 PM Subject: Re: GNUstep on Hackernews They evaluated us and discarded GNUstep on what basis? I had no interaction with any of them nor did i see things on the mailing list. The hello

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

> Am 14.12.2021 um 16:29 schrieb Riccardo Mottola : > > Hi, > > Liam Proven wrote: >> This discussion contains some useful points. There may be stuff here >> that should be addressed right on the homepage. >> >> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29537172 >> >> Étoilé is there too. I

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Hi, Liam Proven wrote: > This discussion contains some useful points. There may be stuff here > that should be addressed right on the homepage. > > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29537172 > > Étoilé is there too. I wonder if this is because I mentioned both in my > article? >

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

On Tue, 14 Dec 2021 at 00:08, Sergii Stoian wrote: > > For the sake of truth - NextSpace has 3 binary releases (RPMs). Please look > carefully here https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace/releases. > Last 0.90 release support 3 bistro: CenOS 7, CentOS 8 and Fedora 31. Aha! That is excellent.

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Liam, On Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 8:58 AM Liam Proven wrote: > This discussion contains some useful points. There may be stuff here > that should be addressed right on the homepage. > > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29537172 > > Étoilé is there too. I wonder if this is because I mentioned

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Hi Liam, > On 13 Dec 2021, at 15:35, Liam Proven wrote: > > This discussion contains some useful points. There may be stuff here > that should be addressed right on the homepage. > > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29537172 > > Étoilé is there too. I wonder if this is because I mentioned

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 at 19:38, Xavier Brochard wrote: > > We all know that many projects never finished. Who can say what > HelloSystem will be in a few months? It's already lasted quite a while and seems to be getting interest and news coverage and so on. Almost all the other desktop-oriented

Re: GNUstep on Hackernews

Le 13.12.2021 14:35, Liam Proven a écrit : As I have said more than once before, IMHO, the GNUstep project *really* _NEEDS_ a version of a mainstream distro based on the desktop environment, as a showcase. NEXTspace hasn't released any binaries or an ISO yet as far as I know. It needs that.

GNUstep on Hackernews

This discussion contains some useful points. There may be stuff here that should be addressed right on the homepage. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29537172 Étoilé is there too. I wonder if this is because I mentioned both in my article? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29537538 As I