Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed
Tim Bowden wrote: I believe the integration test bed didn't go quite as well as planned. Any thoughts as to why, and what could be done next time to improve the experience? First, a bit of background. -- http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/FOSS4G2007_IntegrationShowcase The original idea of the FOSS4G2007 Integration Showcase was that Sponsors and Exhibitors would cooperate to build a set of data and services, running on various platforms, that would show the integration at work. Each Sponsor/Exhibitor would have 'the Showcase Diagram' in their booth, but with highlights showing where their products/services/data fit into the overall Showcase. Refractions bootstrapped this process by providing a server, and, after some data was loaded and a PostGIS database setup, making it available on the Internet. The original plan was to use data from a variety of sources, but due to some issues with licensing, it was decided to go with the OSGeo Public Geospatial Data Committee's idea and use only publicly available geodata. Data from some Canadian sources was loaded onto the Refractions server. http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/Canadian_Geodata There was a plan at one point for the Integration Showcase data/services to be made available for use by Workshop/Lab Instructors for use in their classes, but that was dropped due to performance concerns. As Tim noted, the Integration Showcase didn't move much beyond the initial server/data. -- The future. == Justin Deoliveira, of the Open Planning Project, was in charge of the Integration Showcase, and he loaded the Canadian geodata onto the Refractions server. During FOSS4G2007 I had a discussion with Justin and Chris Holmes, about the Integration Showcase. What came out of that was an idea of 'how to do it better in the future'. I then had subsequent discussions with some other people at the conference about this idea. Here is my interpretation of the general outline of what was discussed. The showcase consists of data and the products needed to process that data and make it available in a variety of ways. All OSGeo projects must contribute to the showcase, and keep maintaining their portion of the showcase. The showcase would initially be built using some known set of data. Preparation before FOSS4G might include adapting the showcase to use a set of 'local data'. OSGeo local chapters might also produce sets of 'local data' for use with the showcase. The building of 'the showcase' should be done by OSGeo, not as part of the preparation for a particular conference. There may be multiple 'versions' of the showcase over time, but there should be a stable version well in advance of FOSS4G. Each FOSS4G conference should have a 'track' that consists of starting with the data and working through the processing of that data and installation configuration of all the showcase software. Because the showcase was already built before the conference, this 'track' can be setup as a set of distinct 'modules'. That provides the flexibility for different students to attend different parts of the 'track', as well as being able to start each module with a known working setup. Workshop/Lab Instructors, Presenters, Sponsors, and Exhibitors would be encouraged to make use of the showcase's capabilities. The showcase should be made available in various 'formats'. That might include having a version always running on the telascience servers, and having a LiveCD/DVD version available for download. A showcase such as this, along with some 'marketing materials', could be used by OSGeo evangelists in their activities. == -- Dave Patton Degree Confluence Project: Canadian Coordinator Technical Coordinator http://www.confluence.org/ FOSS4G2007: Workshop Committee Conference Committee http://www.foss4g2007.org/ Personal website: Maps, GPS, etc. http://members.shaw.ca/davepatton/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed
Dave Patton wrote: All OSGeo projects must contribute to the showcase, and keep maintaining their portion of the showcase. Dave, We try to avoid using the word must too often for projects! The showcase would initially be built using some known set of data. Preparation before FOSS4G might include adapting the showcase to use a set of 'local data'. OSGeo local chapters might also produce sets of 'local data' for use with the showcase. The building of 'the showcase' should be done by OSGeo, not as part of the preparation for a particular conference. There may be multiple 'versions' of the showcase over time, but there should be a stable version well in advance of FOSS4G. I love the idea of maintaining a suite of services as an integration showcase on an ongoing basis rather than as just a conference work item. This connects to the concept of a demonstration stack that we never really followed up on either. Basically to have a bunch of packages installed on a few centrally managed servers that demonstrate our packages, and also demonstrates how they integrate. If we set it up properly it should be practical to delivery a copy of the demonstration stack to run on servers at the conference to avoid problems with saturated links to the external network. One obvious place to set up some of this demonstration stack / integration showcase would be one or a couple of telascience blades. Best regards, -- ---+-- I set the clouds in motion - turn up | Frank Warmerdam, [EMAIL PROTECTED] light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam and watch the world go round - Rush| President OSGeo, http://osgeo.org ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed
The future. == Justin Deoliveira, of the Open Planning Project, was in charge of the Integration Showcase, and he loaded the Canadian geodata onto the Refractions server. During FOSS4G2007 I had a discussion with Justin and Chris Holmes, about the Integration Showcase. What came out of that was an idea of 'how to do it better in the future'. I then had subsequent discussions with some other people at the conference about this idea. Here is my interpretation of the general outline of what was discussed. Part of the problem was that I was not aggressive enough about making sure people had demos in place. Everyone was so busy (understandably) as the conference got near that it just fell off. And I am no exception :). Also as Jody stated the other big issue was hardware availability. Some interested parties just could not participate because they did not have a machine to work with on site. I think to pull this off next time around one will need to put something a bit more formal in place. Perhaps having people sign up for a machine to be used for the integration showcase well before hand (like around the same time they submit workshops). An additional machine is then rented for them (or perhaps one of the workshop machines is reused). Having some sort of contract like this in place would be a bit more binding and would force people to ensure things are set up before hand. Especially since a machine has been set aside for them. Organizers could then treat showcase setup like workshop setup. My 2c. -Justin ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed
This could also be something a local chapter or local interest group might be able to provide. It's volunteering I know, but it's a thought if vendors aren't on board. Maybe for vendors the real question is how does my participation make me the most money. Answer that question and they might be more willing to get on board. What about a live CD concept. Doesn't solve all problems but it eases setup. This brings us back to the OSGEO software stack. Cheers -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jody Garnett Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 18:29 To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed On problem was expecting vendors to supply their own hardware for something that was a conference theme. If you made several machines available prior to the conference for the vendors to configure with their software you may get some traction. Vendors are very busy getting their own act together; fitting into a conference theme (like showcasing interoperability) is an extra that is hard to plan for. For some projects (like MapServer) we did not have a specific vendor or organization to pester into setting up an example service. An integration showcase would be a great message for the OSGeo booth however. Making machine available for community members to set up and configure would perhaps be a better approach. Jody Tim Bowden wrote: I believe the integration test bed didn't go quite as well as planned. Any thoughts as to why, and what could be done next time to improve the experience? Regards, Tim Bowden ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed
What you are suggesting is similar to the OWS-4 put together by OGC (http://www.opengeospatial.org/pub/www/ows4/index.html) This approach might even be able to be setup and organized BEFORE the conference and maybe even have some role playing or mock-ups at the conference. Cheers -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Raj Singh Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 23:16 To: OSGeo Discussions Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed I didn't feel the activity was well enough defined. OGC has done a lot of these types of things, and found that they work best when the participants have a pressing issue to tackle. In the future, I suggest that the integration issue is grounded in a real-world problem that is relevant to some software problem participants are trying to solve for their users and/or clients. --- Raj On Oct 8, 2007, at 10:36 PM, Tim Bowden wrote: I believe the integration test bed didn't go quite as well as planned. Any thoughts as to why, and what could be done next time to improve the experience? ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed
Rajs comment about structure struck me as dead on. I would expect the test bed to be much more engaging if we developed some actual use cases. This would require an early commitment from participants, but would help define what we expect of them and give us a list of people we can harass to make things happen. This does, of course, make it a whole lot more work for everyone involved. Mark Cameron Shorter wrote: I was very excited to hear about the Integration test bed concept and hope that any setbacks can be taken as a learning experience and help us put some achievable steps in place to make it more successful at future events - be they FOSS4G or conferences with an OSGeo presence. Key take home points for me: 1. There should be a standard dataset that all applications use as part of their default demos. I've seen this to a small degree between Geoserver, Mapbuilder and Openlayers. There are sure to be others and I'm sure we can do a better job. 2. An interoperability testbed is difficult to set up just before a conference. So lets do it gradually over a year or so as we build our software, open source workshops and presentations. 3. A version dependency tree will greatly ease installation which in turn will help open source uptake. Jody Garnett wrote: On problem was expecting vendors to supply their own hardware for something that was a conference theme. If you made several machines available prior to the conference for the vendors to configure with their software you may get some traction. Vendors are very busy getting their own act together; fitting into a conference theme (like showcasing interoperability) is an extra that is hard to plan for. For some projects (like MapServer) we did not have a specific vendor or organization to pester into setting up an example service. An integration showcase would be a great message for the OSGeo booth however. Making machine available for community members to set up and configure would perhaps be a better approach. Jody Tim Bowden wrote: I believe the integration test bed didn't go quite as well as planned. Any thoughts as to why, and what could be done next time to improve the experience? Regards, Tim Bowden ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed
I didn't feel the activity was well enough defined. OGC has done a lot of these types of things, and found that they work best when the participants have a pressing issue to tackle. In the future, I suggest that the integration issue is grounded in a real-world problem that is relevant to some software problem participants are trying to solve for their users and/or clients. --- Raj On Oct 8, 2007, at 10:36 PM, Tim Bowden wrote: I believe the integration test bed didn't go quite as well as planned. Any thoughts as to why, and what could be done next time to improve the experience? ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed thingy at FOSS4G
Our 2ct for the Integration Showcase: PS. I am really hoping that anyone good at MapServer will take a run at the problem. We are interested in consuming WMS and WFS services in our application Mapbender. We do not need the Online Resources or FeatureTypes of the services now because we want to add the services during the FOSS4G2007 Integration Showcase. Unfortunately the Mapbender workshop W-03 is at the same time that Jeff and MapStorer lab and during the whole conference at the OSGeo booth. Potentially the outcome of a previous workshop could be this WMS... (dream on). We share Jody's hope that someone from the MapServer community is actually setting up a WMS for or during FOSS4G. For example W05: Tom Kralidis Environmennt Canada Daniel Morissette MapGears Additionally we hope that someone from the GeoServer community will do the same for a WFS-T. [W07] Introduction to Geospatial Collaboration using Geoserver Chris Holmes The Open Planning Project And so on. The WhereGroup will contribute a generic GeoServer WFS-T with the Canadian SRS so that people can add notes, make appointments in Victoria during the conference and so on. At the start of the conference we let the url out of the bag. The integration success is if gvSIG and MapBuilder and uDIG can all write to the same WFS. A corresponding map is generated by a MapServer WMS that looks into the same database. Anybody at FOSS4G who can consume these WMS and WFS has access to these feature types and maps and make appointments and view them and send them to others with the tools of her choice. If everybody simply uses the same data and makes sure that what they do is well documented by EduCom then a life OSGeo SDI with documentation and curriculum will evolve. Some tidying can be done during the Friday Developers Code Sprint. Sounds like a cool conference that I am looking very much forward to. 31 days to go. Best regards, Arnulf PS: How does the Demonstration Theatre tie into this? http://www.foss4g2007.org/exhibition/demotheatre/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed thingy at FOSS4G
Hi Arnulf, Additionally we hope that someone from the GeoServer community will do the same for a WFS-T. [W07] Introduction to Geospatial Collaboration using Geoserver Chris Holmes The Open Planning Project And so on. The WhereGroup will contribute a generic GeoServer WFS-T with the Canadian SRS so that people can add notes, make appointments in Victoria during the conference and so on. At the start of the conference we let the url out of the bag. I will be throwing up a GeoServer instance on the demo server. I like the idea of throwing together some live tables that people can edit via wfs with the various clients and publish via wms. The appointment scenario is a good one to start with. I will update the wiki with the connection info. PS: How does the Demonstration Theatre tie into this? http://www.foss4g2007.org/exhibition/demotheatre/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss !DSPAM:4007,46cefcb1142274901796417! -- Justin Deoliveira The Open Planning Project http://topp.openplans.org ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed thingy at FOSS4G
Arnulf, good idea to have a WFS-T we can all connect to. How about we publish the URL before the demo so that we can set up and test our clients, then reset the data at the start of the conference. (Mike Adair is setting up a Mapbuilder client.) Arnulf Christl wrote: Our 2ct for the Integration Showcase: PS. I am really hoping that anyone good at MapServer will take a run at the problem. We are interested in consuming WMS and WFS services in our application Mapbender. We do not need the Online Resources or FeatureTypes of the services now because we want to add the services during the FOSS4G2007 Integration Showcase. Unfortunately the Mapbender workshop W-03 is at the same time that Jeff and MapStorer lab and during the whole conference at the OSGeo booth. Potentially the outcome of a previous workshop could be this WMS... (dream on). We share Jody's hope that someone from the MapServer community is actually setting up a WMS for or during FOSS4G. For example W05: Tom Kralidis Environmennt Canada Daniel Morissette MapGears Additionally we hope that someone from the GeoServer community will do the same for a WFS-T. [W07] Introduction to Geospatial Collaboration using Geoserver Chris Holmes The Open Planning Project And so on. The WhereGroup will contribute a generic GeoServer WFS-T with the Canadian SRS so that people can add notes, make appointments in Victoria during the conference and so on. At the start of the conference we let the url out of the bag. The integration success is if gvSIG and MapBuilder and uDIG can all write to the same WFS. A corresponding map is generated by a MapServer WMS that looks into the same database. Anybody at FOSS4G who can consume these WMS and WFS has access to these feature types and maps and make appointments and view them and send them to others with the tools of her choice. If everybody simply uses the same data and makes sure that what they do is well documented by EduCom then a life OSGeo SDI with documentation and curriculum will evolve. Some tidying can be done during the Friday Developers Code Sprint. Sounds like a cool conference that I am looking very much forward to. 31 days to go. Best regards, Arnulf PS: How does the Demonstration Theatre tie into this? http://www.foss4g2007.org/exhibition/demotheatre/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Cameron Shorter Systems Architect, http://lisasoft.com.au Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050 Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed thingy at FOSS4G
I just threw up a GeoServer instance and updated the wiki page. http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/FOSS4G2007_IntegrationShowcase#GeoServer Currently it is only publishing a single dataset, an appointments dataset as Arnulf suggested. Let he brainstorming begin about what kind of live datasets we want to setup and I can do the GeoServer configuration accordingly. -Justin Cameron Shorter wrote: Arnulf, good idea to have a WFS-T we can all connect to. How about we publish the URL before the demo so that we can set up and test our clients, then reset the data at the start of the conference. (Mike Adair is setting up a Mapbuilder client.) Arnulf Christl wrote: Our 2ct for the Integration Showcase: PS. I am really hoping that anyone good at MapServer will take a run at the problem. We are interested in consuming WMS and WFS services in our application Mapbender. We do not need the Online Resources or FeatureTypes of the services now because we want to add the services during the FOSS4G2007 Integration Showcase. Unfortunately the Mapbender workshop W-03 is at the same time that Jeff and MapStorer lab and during the whole conference at the OSGeo booth. Potentially the outcome of a previous workshop could be this WMS... (dream on). We share Jody's hope that someone from the MapServer community is actually setting up a WMS for or during FOSS4G. For example W05: Tom Kralidis Environmennt Canada Daniel Morissette MapGears Additionally we hope that someone from the GeoServer community will do the same for a WFS-T. [W07] Introduction to Geospatial Collaboration using Geoserver Chris Holmes The Open Planning Project And so on. The WhereGroup will contribute a generic GeoServer WFS-T with the Canadian SRS so that people can add notes, make appointments in Victoria during the conference and so on. At the start of the conference we let the url out of the bag. The integration success is if gvSIG and MapBuilder and uDIG can all write to the same WFS. A corresponding map is generated by a MapServer WMS that looks into the same database. Anybody at FOSS4G who can consume these WMS and WFS has access to these feature types and maps and make appointments and view them and send them to others with the tools of her choice. If everybody simply uses the same data and makes sure that what they do is well documented by EduCom then a life OSGeo SDI with documentation and curriculum will evolve. Some tidying can be done during the Friday Developers Code Sprint. Sounds like a cool conference that I am looking very much forward to. 31 days to go. Best regards, Arnulf PS: How does the Demonstration Theatre tie into this? http://www.foss4g2007.org/exhibition/demotheatre/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss -- Justin Deoliveira The Open Planning Project http://topp.openplans.org ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed thingy at FOSS4G
A MapServer WMS is probably, just like the database itself, one of the backend services that should be hosted on the main server and have its URL published as early as possible so that others can build their demos against it. But we can definitely keep it running in order to participate in the showcase. A volunteer (more experienced with mapserver then myself :) ) to help setup some nice map files would be welcomed. Which version of MapServer are you currently running, probably 4.10? Would it be an option to also install a recent 5.0 beta with AGG support (with some help)? Yes 4.10. I will grab the latest 5.0 beta and see if i can compile it. Hopefully we can make that a MapServer community effort and if Paul (who just replied saying he'd also be interested) and/or myself setup a strawman mapfile others from the community can contribute enhancements to it to make the default map output (without SLD) look real good. This is probably becoming off-topic for this list, is there another better place where we could continue that discussion with interested parties? Agreed. I will talk to Paul R about possible setting up a mail list for the integration showcase... if there is not already one. Daniel -- Justin Deoliveira The Open Planning Project http://topp.openplans.org ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed thingy at FOSS4G
Bob Basques wrote: Is this restricted to conference attendees? Nope. Also, where is the data? Is there one copy of somewhere to download? See the wiki page. Jody PS. Join the osgeo data committee if you want to collaborate on this kind of thing outside of the bounds of the conference. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed thingy at FOSS4G
Jody, Ok, I must be dense, I don't see a link to any data anywhere on this page: http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/FOSS4G2007_IntegrationShowcase A lot of reference and catalog description links though. Is this it? :http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/Canadian_Geodata, not exactly obvious from the previous page if you ask me. Ok, this is a neat idea, but shouldn't there be one spot with a copy of the data someplace, even just a subset of smaller datasets would start folks going. It would make it much easier to get started on participation. bobb Jody Garnett wrote: Bob Basques wrote: Is this restricted to conference attendees? Nope. Also, where is the data? Is there one copy of somewhere to download? See the wiki page. Jody PS. Join the osgeo data committee if you want to collaborate on this kind of thing outside of the bounds of the conference. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed thingy at FOSS4G
Dave, It wasn't immediately obvious that that was where the data was. bobb Dave Patton wrote: Jody Garnett wrote: Can you show me the ntdb_roads_50 layer? Why are you being asked this? Well it is because the fellow in front of you is wanting to see how well your software performs, and the last two projects had the same dataset (and darn if gvSig was not nearly as fast as ArcView) and he would really like to see your project handle the same information. For more information please bother my friend [EMAIL PROTECTED] and visit the following page: - http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/FOSS4G2007_IntegrationShowcase Remember if you don't download this data, and put it on your laptop before the conference, you will just be trying to figure out what this stuff is (and how to make your application look good with it) at the conference. I'll just point out that there is no need to 'bother' Justin, as anyone can access all of the free public Canadian Geodata by following the links on the Canadian Geodata wiki page: http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/Canadian_Geodata ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Integration test bed thingy at FOSS4G
Hi Bob, I think what Jody was trying to point you at was this: http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/FOSS4G2007_IntegrationShowcase#PostGIS_Database_:_Refractions_Research It is what you say, a single spot of storage for the data which has a subset of those datasets posted on the Canadian Geodata page. -Justin Bob Basques wrote: Jody, Ok, I must be dense, I don't see a link to any data anywhere on this page: http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/FOSS4G2007_IntegrationShowcase A lot of reference and catalog description links though. Is this it? :http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/Canadian_Geodata, not exactly obvious from the previous page if you ask me. Ok, this is a neat idea, but shouldn't there be one spot with a copy of the data someplace, even just a subset of smaller datasets would start folks going. It would make it much easier to get started on participation. bobb Jody Garnett wrote: Bob Basques wrote: Is this restricted to conference attendees? Nope. Also, where is the data? Is there one copy of somewhere to download? See the wiki page. Jody PS. Join the osgeo data committee if you want to collaborate on this kind of thing outside of the bounds of the conference. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss !DSPAM:4007,46cdb400140612085621377! -- Justin Deoliveira The Open Planning Project http://topp.openplans.org ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
