Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
I also just play local FLACs and don't use streaming services much except the BBC and occasionally other radio stations. If I wanted to use one or more streaming services such as Qobuz, Spotify etc I'd have to pay for that anyway, well over £100 per year each. I probably wouldn't want to pay much on top of that to get the services via LMS - maybe a small single yearly supplement, but only a few pounds/euros/dollars I might pay something, since LMS is so good, but not a lot. However, I'm probably not typical :) LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS Squeeze2upnp (Beta - derived from squeezelite) to Musical Fidelity M1 CLiC and Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Squeezelite to PC sound. Minimserver (server) and upplay (control point) to same amps to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Meridian USB Explorer DAC from PCs to speakers/headphones. Wireless Xubuntu 14.04 laptop controls LMS/upplay via Firefox. Have a Touch with EDO, and a spare, but don't use. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
I listen 90% of the time to my own music libray (10,000 FLAC files) and 10% of the time to BBC via one of the 3rd party plugins. I have never used mysqueezebox.com nor any other online service. I'm not interested in Spotify or anything like that. Provided any repalcement could handle the above, I'd be happy. My 2p Jim jimwillsher's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=410 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
erland wrote: Short term: Related to this, would you be willing to pay an annual or one time fee if you would be sure it would make it possible for you to continue using your Squeezebox hardware with current or similar features ? I'm just asking because I think it's unlikely that Logitech or anybody else will do it for free on longer terms, it's just too much work to keep it working with the latest streaming services and you need to add support for new streaming services when they arrive for the platform to be attractive as one or more new streaming services tends to appear on the market every year. Logitech won't do this even if we pay for it, but there might be third parties that are interested in doing it. I would be willing.. jarome's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1223 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
The thing with mysqueezebox.com providing access to streaming services is that it's a proxy authentication service for music services with contracts with Logitech to allow Squeezebox access. A pay service attempting to provide that same service would be redundant unless it, too had some sort of special agreement with these services. At this point in time, unless your service were also available to many other platforms, it seems highly unlikely that any of the music services would care to deal with you. Without that type of agreement, authentication can either be done by a simple plugin, with no intermediary, or it can't be done at all. JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
me, too. eschurr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2007 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
I listen primarily to my own library so I don't think I would pay for unnecessary services Logitech Media Server Version: 7.9.0 - 1412783275 @ Fri Oct 10 04:00:09 UTC 2014 Operating system: Debian - EN - utf8 Platform Architecture: x86_64-linux Perl Version: 5.18.2 - x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi Database Version: DBD::SQLite 1.34_01 (sqlite 3.7.7.1) One SB Touch connected by ethernet - Denon AVR -1912 Receiver, Paradigm 4.1 speakers Two SB Radios wireless SlimChances's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=165 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Take a look at squeeze2upnp. It's still in beta form, but I've been using it for some time. If you rely on LMS, don't need multi-system synchronisation, and have UPnP amplifiers, it's well worth trying. See https://github.com/philippe44/LMS-to-uPnP LMS 7.9 on VortexBox Midi, Xubuntu 14.04, FLACs 16-24 bit, 44.1-192kbps. LMS Squeeze2upnp (Beta - derived from squeezelite) to Musical Fidelity M1 CLiC and Marantz CR603 UPnP renderers. Squeezelite to PC sound. Minimserver (server) and upplay (control point) to same amps to upmpdcli/mpd PC renderers. Meridian USB Explorer DAC from PCs to speakers/headphones. Wireless Xubuntu 14.04 laptop controls LMS/upplay via Firefox. Have a Touch with EDO, and a spare, but don't use. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
erland wrote: I'm not that worried, we are probably talking about at least 2 years in the future, probably longer, I'm fairly sure the market will find a solution suitable for our needs by then. It might not be Squeezebox hardware but as long as it offers similar features most of us will be happy to switch to it. For local music LMS will continue to work a long time after MySB servers has been shutdown. Sorry, I'm totally new to the squeezebox arena and this thread has made me a bit worried. I just bought a slim devices squeezebox, and was thinking of getting a few more.. but what is this about the servers dying? What does it mean to an end user? Will I no longer be able to do -anything- with it? Or will streaming from a local media server be OK, but internet radio will be inaccessible? fewleh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58865 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
fewleh wrote: Sorry, I'm totally new to the squeezebox arena and this thread has made me very confused. I just bought a slim devices squeezebox, and was thinking of getting a few more.. but what is this about the servers dying? What does it mean to an end user? Will I no longer be able to do -anything- with it? Or will streaming from a local media server be OK, but internet radio will be inaccessible? Or is there a 3rd party plugin I can install that will let me continue streaming radio etc? Hope someone can clarify for newbies/idiots like myself, thanks :) You'll be Ok with local music, and there are 3rd party plugins for many services, but not all. Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Internet radio where you can directly enter URL (which is true for 99% of my use case) will work after mysb.com goes away. garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
maggior wrote: So, when the time comes I need to move on and only a closed system is available and it does everything I need to do well, I'll be OK with that. I'm interested to see what develops over the next year. My only problem with Sonos is that they don't have *' Triode' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?53229-Announce-BBCiPlayer-Plugin-(UK-only))* on their development team! His BBC iPlayer and Spotify plug-ins are the two most used plug-ins on my Squeezeboxes. In fact I reckon about 50% of my family's total listening time is accounted for with just those two facilities. Sonos do not have an iPlayer app at all and their Spotify app is not a patch on Triode's plug-in. If my Squeezeboxes fail, or Triode's plug-ins stop working, then I will be bereft... :( I am sorely tempted to pick up some back-up Squeezeboxes just in case, but if the plug-ins stop working before the Squeezeboxes do then that would be a waste of money. TheLastMan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16021 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
TheLastMan wrote: My only problem with Sonos is that they don't have *' Triode' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?53229-Announce-BBCiPlayer-Plugin-(UK-only))* on their development team! His BBC iPlayer and Spotify plug-ins are the two most used plug-ins on my Squeezeboxes. In fact I reckon about 50% of my family's total listening time is accounted for with just those two facilities. Sonos do not have an iPlayer app at all and their Spotify app is not a patch on Triode's plug-in. If my Squeezeboxes fail, or Triode's plug-ins stop working, then I will be bereft... :( I am sorely tempted to pick up some back-up Squeezeboxes just in case, but if the plug-ins stop working before the Squeezeboxes do then that would be a waste of money. keep an eye on the squeezelite thread, seems to be evolving rapidly. SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
SBGK wrote: keep an eye on the squeezelite thread, seems to be evolving rapidly. Thanks for the heads up. Had not spotted that thread before. The guy is obviously a genius! I was aware that I could install a software player on a mini-PC, and that one comes bundled with Vortexbox anyway. I am not looking for the eptiome of small and cheap. I am quite happy to install Vortexbox on something like a Zotac atom based mini-PC if necessary, provided it will sync securely with other players. I suppose I am more worried about Triode deciding to retire from supporting his plugins. However the Squeezelite project gives me hope that he has not given up yet. What does this guy do for a living? Where does he find the time to do this stuff? He should start asking for donations. I think he might be surprised at how many use his plugins and are prepared to show their gratitude financially in order to secure continued plug-in support, particularly those of us in the UK. TheLastMan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16021 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
TheLastMan wrote: I was aware that I could install a software player on a mini-PC, and that one comes bundled with Vortexbox anyway. I am not looking for the eptiome of small and cheap. I am quite happy to install Vortexbox on something like a Zotac atom based mini-PC if necessary, provided it will sync securely with other players. I've used Squeezelite on a Zotac Zbox AD04 with its analogue output, worked great as far as I could see. It was while squeezelite was still a beta version and I tried but didn't succeed to get it to work with the HDMI output, but was more of a OS problem than a squeezelite problem since I didn't even get the HDMI audio to work with other software. Will have to try again with the latest version when I get the time. TheLastMan wrote: I suppose I am more worried about Triode deciding to retire from supporting his plugins. However the Squeezelite project gives me hope that he has not given up yet. As all third party developers I'm sure he loves to get positive feedback and ideas for potential improvements. If you want to ensure he stays, keep giving him positive feedback, help with beta testing, troubleshooting your own and other users setup and give him ideas for potential improvements. A few years back some people were worried about using third party plugins because they were afraid they wouldn't be supported in the future, instead they wanted Logitech to add the functionality to the core because then the long term maintenance would be secured, they thought... TheLastMan wrote: What does this guy do for a living? Where does he find the time to do this stuff? It's all about priorities, reality shows on TV and sleeping 12 hours per day is generally overrated ;-) TheLastMan wrote: He should start asking for donations. I think he might be surprised at how many use his plugins and are prepared to show their gratitude financially in order to secure continued plug-in support, particularly those of us in the UK. Everything isn't about money, some people like to do development just because it's creative and fun and it's also nice to make people happy and get the positive feedback. Donations and commercial plugins introduce an extra level of administration and effort which is needed to keep tax authorities happy, it also have a tendency to make your hobby feel like work and obligations which isn't always positive. So if you don't need the extra money or doesn't want the extra administration, donations and commercial solutions might not be the best solution to motivate yourself. I haven't regretted my decision to make some of my plugins commercial, but I can definitely understand why some developers doesn't want to take that route because even if it's positive from a financial perspective it also introduce some new non technical challenges and negative aspects as described above. Donations generally doesn't work on longer terms, at least it didn't for me, too few users is prepared to voluntarily donate money to make it worth the effort and if you get a lot of donations the tax authorities is going to get interested and then you get the extra administration without the high revenue. erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Thanks for the detailed feedback Erland, interesting to see what motivates you guys. I will keep an eye on Squeezlite. Most of the issues appear to be around making it work on low power devices. If it works easily with something like a Zotac Zbox then I will probably go that route in the future if I need a replacement for my Receivers. I am quite happy with a decent analogue out. For those of us with full time jobs, wives also in full time work and kids (in my case three under 12) time poor is an appropriate description. I am hardly cash rich either, but am more able to provide a bit of cash than I am time for beta testing, etc. Very happy to give positive feedback though, and have done a few times as far as Triode is concerned. I note your comment about donations being as much of a burden as a benefit, and I can understand that. Rest assured, there are lots of us out here who appreciate the Squeezebox plug-in developers. You guys are in serious danger of creating a fully open source music streaming system. I can even see a small cottage industry developing in providing low volume, high quality, Squeezebox players and servers with pre-installed Linux OS and software that can be sold to those of us without the time, inclination or expertise to build our own. If Agillis can do it with Vortexbox then there is room for others, I am sure. The big challenge will be keeping LMS working once Logitech turns off the MySB servers. Any chance of that? Or would it be curtains for the Squeezebox? erland wrote: It's all about priorities, reality shows on TV and sleeping 12 hours per day is generally overrated ;-) Wow! Chance wouild be a fine thing. Very fine! :) Live long and prosper... (please!) TheLastMan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16021 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
TheLastMan wrote: The big challenge will be keeping LMS working once Logitech turns off the MySB servers. Any chance of that? Or would it be curtains for the Squeezebox? I'm not that worried, we are probably talking about at least 2 years in the future, probably longer, I'm fairly sure the market will find a solution suitable for our needs by then. It might not be Squeezebox hardware but as long as it offers similar features most of us will be happy to switch to it. For local music LMS will continue to work a long time after MySB servers has been shutdown. erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
For me the most unique feature of the SB system is that it can synchronise between rooms or play different music in different rooms. Which other system can do that except the Sonos which is much more expensive than the SB? jsmithlon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
jsmithlon wrote: For me the most unique feature of the SB system is that it can synchronise between rooms or play different music in different rooms. Which other system can do that except the Sonos which is much more expensive than the SB? I am exactly the same ScottRennie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=29649 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
jsmithlon wrote: Which other system can do that except the Sonos which is much more expensive than the SB? I think Meridian Sooloos can do that. And it's much much more expensive than Sonos! aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
jsmithlon wrote: Which other system can do that except the Sonos which is much more expensive than the SB? To answer your question, there is no other product out there at the moment. Regarding the expense of Sonos, it's not as bad as it used to be. The players are expensive and then you had to add the cost of the controller. With iOS and andriod devices being quite prevelant, you don't need that any more, so the cost of the controller isn't a factor any more. Now that I fully appreciate the convenience and enjoyment of this type of system, the cost of the Sonos offereing isn't as bad as I originally thought. maggior's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
maggior wrote: Regarding the expense of Sonos, it's not as bad as it used to be. The players are expensive and then you had to add the cost of the controller. With iOS and andriod devices being quite prevelant, you don't need that any more, so the cost of the controller isn't a factor any more. Now that I fully appreciate the convenience and enjoyment of this type of system, the cost of the Sonos offereing isn't as bad as I originally thought. Agreed, price isn't an issue, honestly it has never been, if I compare what I've payed from my music collection and other audio equipment, Sonos devices for a few rooms always have and still is nothing in comparison. The main issue is that with Sonos (and many other hardware manufacturers) you are restricted to what software features the manufacturer prioritizes and wants to implement and their handling of third party add-ons is a joke, I watched bluegaspode mention his SonoPad app in their forum last year and the thread was almost closed just because he mentioned he was working on an app and wanted beta testers. Another issue is that you are restricted to hardware equipment which is provided by the manufacturer, you can basically forget about getting a third party player if the hardware the manufacturer provides doesn't suit your needs. However, I can still sometimes feel a bit tempted, because a music streaming system that just works for the whole house and is supported by the manufacturer would be nice, but I've decided to wait and see what the market plans to provide now when Logitech has left a hole before I jump onto the Sonos wagon. I think the following 12 months is going to be more exiting in this market than the last year, there have been more movements in the market during the last 6 months and I'm also aware of some projects which are unknown to the public at this time. So to wait and see and enjoy my Squeezeboxes feels like a good strategy at the moment. erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
erland wrote: Agreed, price isn't an issue, honestly it has never been, if I compare what I've payed from my music collection and other audio equipment, Sonos devices for a few rooms always have and still is nothing in comparison. [...]but I've decided to wait and see what the market plans to provide now when Logitech has left a hole before I jump onto the Sonos wagon. I think the following 12 months is going to be more exiting in this market than the last year, there have been more movements in the market during the last 6 months and I'm also aware of some projects which are unknown to the public at this time. So to wait and see and enjoy my Squeezeboxes feels like a good strategy at the moment. I'm with you in your wait and see approach. I checked out Sonos just to see what my options are in case I have to jump ship. For now, everything is working quite well and I'm happy - even after updating to 7.7.2 :-). I perfer an open system, but if a closed system does everything I need, that I'm OK with it. For instance, I like my iPods - itunes is good enough for me, they support robust gapless playback, and they have good accesory options with a line-out option. So, when the time comes I need to move on and only a closed system is available and it does everything I need to do well, I'll be OK with that. I'm interested to see what develops over the next year. maggior's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
NFLnut wrote: QFT The only iDevices that I own are the 1st gen click wheel and the 1st gen iPod Touch. And I have rarely used them. iTunes however, is THE single worst piece of software I have ever used! I have zero interest in proprietary, crippled hardware that I cannot customize and use in nearly any way I so choose. I just can confirm similar feelings in regards to the proprietary closed devises. The funny thing is that we are more in the minority. Mainstream needs easy to use fancy devices, and Apple sales just confirms that. Android world also follows it. The same is about SONOS and many other items appeared on the market. It is like the discussion about proprietary copy rights and many other topics a lot of us are not happy about this, but market goes own way. Most consumers do not really care as long as it works and do not mind when something goes into the trash bin after just few months of service. It is where the mainstream is, where most of cash is in. And the future will be just evolving further in this direction: more content will be leased and not owned, more devices will be going that way. New Windows will just reinforce this trend as it will be much more closed systems then we used to have. Linux will be own island where remaining freedom spirit will be. AndreE's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30476 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
AndreE wrote: The funny thing is that we are more in the minority. The minority is sometimes right; the majority always wrong. - George Bernard Shaw :) Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
I love Squeezebox and it's products I love the apple products. Proprietary and open next to each other. Apple, because it just works SB because it fills my total home with music ad6922's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=36131 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Julf wrote: I am glad that solution works for you, but the reason most of us are still part of this forum and community instead of hanging out in the Apple fanboy groups is that we either prefer the superior functionality the SB system gives us, or that we resent the gilded iCage apple forces you into, or both. QFT The only iDevices that I own are the 1st gen click wheel and the 1st gen iPod Touch. And I have rarely used them. iTunes however, is THE single worst piece of software I have ever used! I have zero interest in proprietary, crippled hardware that I cannot customize and use in nearly any way I so choose. Thus, that rules out any and pretty much all crApple products. And is also the reason that I will NOT be in the market for a UE device. Add the ability to use plugins/apps and I would consider it. NFLnut's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13180 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
I currently use a customized version of Softsqueeze; which integrates perfectly in my SageTV Media Center software. So, I basically have universal radio, digital cable TV DVR, bluray which are all integrated into one Server-client system. So, instead of having 4-5 different set-top-boxes sitting in each room, I just have a tiny extender box to take their place in each room. I'm curious if there are any new server-extender based Media Center technologies which can integrate (universal radio and music playback -squeezebox-replacement-), cableTV (including premium TV channels), bluray movies (ripped or from BD disc itself on the server), etc. I'm just trying to avoid having a big mess of unlike devices sitting in each room. Going back to doing that would be a big step backwards for me. mkanet's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7965 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
garym wrote: As long as mysb.com stays alive Can't you run things in your house without mysb.com? Even though I have 2 touches and a transporter I really don't know what role mysb.com plays. I am running LMS on my Synology NAS and just use the various SBs with a remote. dminches's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12606 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
dminches wrote: Can't you run things in your house without mysb.com? Even though I have 2 touches and a transporter I really don't know what role mysb.com plays. I am running LMS on my Synology NAS and just use the various SBs with a remote. of course. I can play my own music files and internet radio without mysb.com. I could not play things without mysb.com like Pandora, SiriusXM, MOG. mysb.com makes the handshake for those services to work with your local squeezebox players and LMS. garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Mnyb wrote: I'm more for a centralised server and distributed players solution A sort of 'slim' devices approach? ;-) garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Mnyb wrote: I'm more for a centralised server and distributed players solution +1 garym wrote: A sort of 'slim' devices approach? ;-) Indeed :) CharlieG's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32439 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
garym wrote: A sort of 'slim' devices approach? ;-) Yea I've heard of those... ;) Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
pallfreeman wrote: XBMC has squeezebox plugins. The controller/artwork display is OK, but the player is just a squeezeslave. The showstopper for me was that it grabs the audio output and doesn't integrate nicely with the psychedelic visualiser. If that worked I'd probably be using it instead of my Chumby. I could live without the hardware, but LMS is what I'll miss most, assuming the worst. XBMC with the new AudioEngine can output 24/96, which is what I want. This made me look. XBMC has also shown impressive community development power. And it'll do both music and movies. Now, I expect multiroom will come. How could it not? There are already threads on the XBMC forums for that. As for the services, that may be more tricky, although it seems (after just a brief search) there are at least Spotify plug ins. Gadgety1's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33223 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
I've been playing with this for a bit - Antipodes Audio high end vortex box-based server. This has 2tb onboard and can rip to FLAC using its built in blu-ray drive. It sounds excellent and although not inexpensive, I'm considering it as a Touch replacement. It'll also get me away from the usual iTunes BS. http://www.antipodesaudio.com/digital_sources.html +---+ |Filename: 243658130.jpg| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14126| +---+ bigbossman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=29947 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Maybe maybe this one can fill the gap... Of course time will tell whether the device can live up to the promising specs known so far... looks like they are aiming for a linux based device and active support from a community. So far I have known Olive as more of an aristocratic company with more tech based solutions (rather than aestetics and flexibility), so it may be a bit of a gamble. [image: http://d2oadd98wnjs7n.cloudfront.net/medias/576938/pictures/full/20121211094946-Olive_ONE_Gangnam.png] Amazing Sound HD Digital-Analog-Converter Based on Burr-Brown PCM5142: 32-bit/384kHz Dynamic Range / SNR: 112 dB THD+N: - 93 dB @ - 1 dBFS (Typical) 8X oversampling Dual HD amplifiers and DSP 2x 32W/channel into 8 Ohm, high-efficiency (92%) 1 amp per channel provides perfect channel separation DSP with Olive's patent-pending PRISM technology Supported Audio Formats WAV, AIF, FLAC, MP3, AAC, Apple Lossless, Ogg Vorbis Audio Output Analog: Speaker out Digital: Wi-Fi CERTIFIED Miracast#8482; Bluetooth Wi-Fi Direct#8482; Digital Audio Input Bluetooth Wi-Fi: Miracast#8482;, Direct#8482;, DLNA/UPnP PHiX's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
bigbossman wrote: I've been playing with this for a bit - Antipodes Audio high end vortex box-based server. This has 2tb onboard and can rip to FLAC using its built in blu-ray drive. It sounds excellent and although not inexpensive, I'm considering it as a Touch replacement. It'll also get me away from the usual iTunes BS. http://www.antipodesaudio.com/digital_sources.html Bizare product , 10x the usual price for a vortexbox server ?? And only USB output , for that price spdiff toslink and a high quality DAC should be included ? Aha now I see they sell an USB DAC too ,but why no spdiff out ? And they still don't get it who,wants the server in the hifi rack ? No player only devices ? No I'll pass , to silly for me an overpriced vb server :) you can get an even more overpriced version with linear PSU for the computer ? It can be used as squeezebox server ,but then again overpriced because the server does not influence soundqality in a squeezebox system so a waste of $ for that purpose I'm more for a centralised server and distributed players solution Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
bigbossman wrote: I've been playing with this for a bit - Antipodes Audio high end vortex box-based server. This has 2tb onboard and can rip to FLAC using its built in blu-ray drive. It sounds excellent and although not inexpensive, I'm considering it as a Touch replacement. It'll also get me away from the usual iTunes BS. http://www.antipodesaudio.com/digital_sources.html Hmmm, you're both from New Zealand, not affiliated are you? If you are looking for a Touch replacement the Vortexbox appliance from Small Green Computer are at or slightly higher than the Touch's cost. vining's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37132 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
I've never bought any music from Apple. I prefer lossless and rip any music I have. You don't have to buy any content from them to use their hardware. The only restriction I find is the types if music and movie files that can be played but that's not a serious limitation. Steven Moore's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=104 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Jokke wrote: My next system could be the YAMAHA CD-N500. Yamaha makes some nice gear, I'm a big fan of their AVR's and own two myself. That said, I'd pass on this unit - pricey, $1200 (MSRP) cd player with networking - no WiFi, need a separate Yamaha WiFi adapter - no Sync, even if they had Sync it would require another $1200 Yamaha player - historically they lag behind competitors in networking features functions (i.e. Denon, Pioneer, etc...) - proprietary software (i.e. no third party apps/plugins) The above is in great part why their two generations of their MusicCast system failed and is now discontinued. MusicCast was essentially an over priced Olive system with fewer features and proprietary software. toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
My next system could be the YAMAHA CD-N500. YAMAHA promised to support streaming services like spotify on it early next year. And, this unit would fit perfectly with my YAMAHA AS-700 amp. Only, i'm quite satisfied with the Logitech Touch at this moment, except for the spotify application which sucks. Jokke's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
pippin wrote: Um, why is that? Apple were actually the driving force behind removing DRM from downloaded music so if anybody helped you to actually own downloaded Music, it's them. They forced it on the record companies. Slightly revisionist as apple didn't fight drm to begin with in fact they actively embraced it as a way to garner favour with the record companies and gain a monopoly in the audio market, they did start championing it however when other companies started to deliver viable iTunes competitors delivering drm free options . So kudos to them for doing so but I wouldn't credit them with being the driving force. flipside's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11558 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
flipside wrote: Slightly revisionist as apple didn't fight drm to begin with in fact they actively embraced it as a way to garner favour with the record companies and gain a monopoly in the audio market, they did start championing it however when other companies started to deliver viable iTunes competitors delivering drm free options . So kudos to them for doing so but I wouldn't credit them with being the driving force. No, I think you got that one wrong. During the time I was working in audio hardware and I can remember very well, that before iTunes came out, record companies told people there was no way they would ever license their catalog to anybody not using DRM. Remember how they tried to sue the hell out of Diamond for the Rio? Before Apple came along they openly refused to even license a catalog without exclusivity to the respective record company, I am pretty sure the DRM was a concession Apple had to make to get a somewhat decent catalog together at all. After all, there were no such offerings before they came along. Succeeding here was probably one of the most important contributors to their current success. And who would those competitors delivering DRM free options be? Amazon et al only cam along much later. They _announced_ their services pretty early, claiming to do away with DRM but of the big libraries actually being _available_ iTunes was the first one going DRM free, I believe. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
pippin wrote: No, I think you got that one wrong. And who would those competitors delivering DRM free options be? Amazon et al only cam along much later. They _announced_ their services pretty early, claiming to do away with DRM but of the big libraries actually being _available_ iTunes was the first one going DRM free, I believe. Initially Apple only offered it (as iTunes +) with EMI and even when they later added other label they originally charged an upgrade fee if you wanted to convert your DRM'ed files but still I'm pretty sure for offerings with a significant catalog behind them there were no DRM free alternatives on the market at that time. Well, emusic.com comes to mind (established in 1998). I remember paying for a fixed monthly fee for unlimited downloads (drm-free), it had a great collection of alternative stuff and also non-music (e.g. stand up comedy) tracks. igufi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58508 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Yes, but that's what I mean. No matter what your musical tastes are, alternative stuff is not a comprehensive catalog. I was talking about something like covering 50% of the most listened-to stuff or so, something iTunes provides. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Would this be any good? Denon DNP-720AE? http://www.denon.co.uk/uk/product/Pages/Product-Detail.aspx?Catid=AirPlayproductsSubId=NetworkAudioPlayerProductId=DNP720AE [image: http://www.denon.co.uk/Assets/Images/Products/DNP-720AE/EL_DNP720AESP_E2_fr.jpg] Sakkerju's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37149 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
What would be my choice if all my Squeezebox would fail some day, likely when MySqueezebox.com dies or when SqueezeCenter software will not run on my server any longer? I am thinking of putting a decent USB DAC straight into my NAS port (hopefully supported by software) For instance the AudioQuest DragonFly DAC plugged into my Synology NAS would be acceptable. The only 'challenge' is to have a proper analog audio connection from the NAS location in the home powercabinet towards the (pre)amplifiers on the other end of the living room. Getting used to Synology's Audio Station and it poorer tag support is a challenge too! For kitchen and bedroom, any cheapo DLNA internet radio will have to do [image: http://www.stereophile.com/images/1012dragon.2.jpg] Sakkerju's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37149 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
When my SB3 dies, I´ll use XBMC-HTPC to replay music. I´m already using it as multi-channel -music player. Android-phone works just fine as remote and music-browser, so no need for TV on when playing music. BoxFreak's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20897 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
eschurr wrote: my main concern is: who will support LMS? lately my LMS scans aren't picking up iTunes playlists, and it may be because of iTunes 11. Who's going to keep LMS alive and well? My crystal ball tells me that the following will happen (sometime in the not too distant future): 1. Some critical problem occurs that makes LMS more or less useless for a lot of users 2. One of the following will happen: - Logitech steps up and shows that they really meant what they said when they said they are still supporting Squeezebox users, fixes the problem and makes us all happy. or - Someone in the community creates a community version of LMS and fixes the problem. or - Another company provides a solution with similar functionality as Squeezeboxes and we all switch to that. Personally, I feel that the last alternative is most likely on longer terms, but I'm not convinced it will come from Sonos as some people seems to think. It's important to realize that to get the Squeezebox experience, you really need a solution where many different parties can contribute, if it's a closed solution 100% handled and controlled by a single company like Sonos and similar, their business strategy is going to ensure that features which aren't important to 80% of the users will be dropped. With a more open solution, you create an opportunity for smaller companies or individual developers to contribute to your platform and provide the bells and whistles which you don't want to spend resources on providing yourself. The solution doesn't have to be open source or free for this to occur, but it does have to be open to third parties to enhance the platform with new features. Just think about what iPhone/iPad would be without any third party apps, what LMS/Squeezebox would be without any third party applets/plugins or third party contributed code. Many core features in LMS was initially started as work by third party developers which Slim Devices later decided to include in the core product. eschurr wrote: i'm heartbroken over the news about Logitech not supporting the SB anymore (i can't find anything official about that on their website). I think this is the official information that exists: http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Squeezebox-Players/Logitech-UE-Smart-Radio/td-p/884530 http://blog.logitech.com/2012/09/28/an-open-letter-to-squeezebox-fans/ Both indicate that Logitech plans to continue supporting Squeezebox users for the foreseeable future, there is no official indication that they are planning to stop supporting Squeezeboxes. However, I think we all realize that Logitech is into this to earn money, so since they aren't selling anymore Squeezeboxes they will probably try to spend as little resources as possible to fix bugs specific to the Squeezebox unless it's really critical bugs. We might get some bug corrections for free since the UE Music Library server in many places is the same software as Logitech Media Server, but in most cases I suspect LMS is only going to get the critical bug fixes. The bugs that are going to be considered to be critical is probably those that will cause most head aches for the official Logitech support team, so if we report and complain to them through the official support channels when things doesn't work, it likely increase the chance of them spending resources on fixing it. erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Mnyb wrote: It may not be completely trivial to make it run on any linux box in the dockstar case it migth actually be the cpu that is the problem ? don't know if mip server runs on anything but x86 . Ah yes, good point. It was a while ago that I looked into this, and that was actually the problem. My Dockstar uses a Marvel ARM cpu, so the problem was the MIP server cant run on that. menno's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11751 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
I keep meaning to write to Rogue Amoeba and suggest that they consider developing their 'Airfoil' (http://www.rogueamoeba.com/airfoil/) product into a music player system that could serve as a Squeezebox replacement - they've got the streaming-audio-over-the-network bit, how hard would it be to integrate that with a headless music player capable of playing different streams to different destinations plus a remote control app for iOS and Android? (he asked rhetorically). Normal people can use any Airplay hardware and geeky types can use anything that can run Shairplay. They'd want to charge some money for it, but I'd certainly be prepared to pay if it was done right. Are there any developers reading this who can imagine any mileage in this idea? nekomatic's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=57325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Airfoil is just a hacked version of AirPlay. Can't make a system out of that. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
I am hoping that by running LMS on a dedicated Linux box that I don't need to update in any way, I can keep LMS running for a long time. My music streaming pre-amp (a Musical Fidelity M1CLic) supports UPnP. However, having spent some time adding extra tags to my music (mainly Work, Movement and the Id of the original CD/LP) many of the standard UPnP systems can't provide what I need for classical music. However, it will come as little surprise to many that foobar2000, even running under wine on Linux, can support non-standard tags and include menu entries for them. I haven't done much with this other than to prove it can be made to work. So I have a way out if I need it. I'm hoping I don't. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
erland wrote: My crystal ball tells me that the following will happen (sometime in the not too distant future): 1. Some critical problem occurs that makes LMS more or less useless for a lot of users 2. One of the following will happen: - Logitech steps up and shows that they really meant what they said when they said they are still supporting Squeezebox users, fixes the problem and makes us all happy. or - Someone in the community creates a community version of LMS and fixes the problem. or - Another company provides a solution with similar functionality as Squeezeboxes and we all switch to that. Personally, I feel that the last alternative is most likely on longer terms I think the community alternative is just as likely - either as a fork/development of the current code base, or as a complete rewrite. The actual code is not really the problem (especially if using a real programming language :) ), the hard part is figuring out the protocol, and we already have that. Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Steven Moore wrote: Moved to Apple TV a while back and don't regret it. I am glad that solution works for you, but the reason most of us are still part of this forum and community instead of hanging out in the Apple fanboy groups is that we either prefer the superior functionality the SB system gives us, or that we resent the gilded iCage apple forces you into, or both. Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Julf wrote: ...we either prefer the superior functionality the SB system gives us, or that we resent the gilded iCage apple forces you into, or both. Both :-) To give you an example there is no way on this earth I am going to give Apple my credit card number just for the privilege of browsing their iTunes store, from which I might subsequently borrow music, for a fee, but never own it. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
PasTim wrote: Both :-) from which I might subsequently borrow music, for a fee, but never own it. Um, why is that? Apple were actually the driving force behind removing DRM from downloaded music so if anybody helped you to actually own downloaded Music, it's them. They enforced it on the record companies. pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
pippin wrote: Um, why is that? Apple were actually the driving force behind removing DRM from downloaded music so if anybody helped you to actually own downloaded Music, it's them. They forced it on the record companies. There are those, the RIAA for instance, who appear to claim we never 'own' any downloaded music, or even a CD (I have heard it said that a some regard software in the same way). I'm not going to let that worry me too much, and I'm not iBlaming iApple for iThat, and shouldn't really have mentioned it. I was just sounding off PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Julf wrote: I think the community alternative is just as likely - either as a fork/development of the current code base, or as a complete rewrite. The actual code is not really the problem (especially if using a real programming language :) ), the hard part is figuring out the protocol, and we already have that. PM or mail me if you are interested in contributing to something like this as a developer. erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Mnyb wrote: As avsked can we use individual keys ? No, their licensing explicitly says Don't register for multiple API keys in an attempt to cirumvent rate limits. Of course, if the plugin will be open source, you can always edit the code and change the API key to your own which isn't shared with other users. Just be aware of that TEN might not like this so it's probably not a good solution if a lot of users starts to do this. Mnyb wrote: Or if get more than 1000 users , could some kind of subscription model be worked out ? Understands that the echo nest serves clients with millions of users and may have scaled thier pricing accordingly :/ It needs to be discussed with TEN, as I've understood they have no problem to increase this limit for commercial API keys, so it's just a matter if people would be interested to pay for it. A free beta limited to first 1000 registered users would probably be a good start and then take a discussion with TEN if the limitation of 1000 users becomes a problem. I suspect TEN probably wouldn't want to handle payments from individual users, so the plugin developer would probably have to handle payments from individual users, mainly because TEN probably doesn't want to handle a lot of small payments and support individual users as this requires a bit of work. It wouldn't surprise me if the current MusicIP integration have less than 1000 users. Generally it's only a very small percentage of the total Squeezebox user group that use third party plugins. If the plugin is commercial and costs money to use, the number of users prepared to use it is significantly less than for a free plugin. For reference, the SQL Playlist plugin (which is also related to smart playlists) have around 1000 users today. So to sum it up, I wouldn't worry to much about the limitation to 1000 users at this stage of the project. erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
I'm not an so early adopter to the squeeze world and MIP was being abandon even then . So I understands if MIP have problem to gain new users , it a bit of a threshold to get in on it . However if some one writes a smart mix app that's just installs via the plugins menu and just works , I think that more users could be attracted . In fact I think it should be standard functionality in any music software to play similar songs from a seed track (as well as playlist editing) . But this could be offsett by the decline of LMS/squeezeboxes , so the usual diehards together into the sunset :) Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
For me there is currently no alternative. I have been researching this a bit. Sure, there is Sonos. But Sonos doesn't have a server that runs on Linux, and it doesn't support anything above redbook. So all my 96/24 needledrops would have to be down sampled. Ugh. Not only is that a lot of work, but losing all that resolution is simply unacceptable. I have read a bit about high end solutions from Olive, Meridian and Linn. Frankly, it's like no one in those companies has even heard of Linux. Is there any solution that runs on Linux? And no, I don't want to build a box... Personally, I am seriously bummed out. I only found out about Squeezebox's demise today. What's ironic (at least to me) is that I found out AFTER I ordered a pair of UE900 in ear monitors. Nothing like sending business to the company that killed one of the things I hold most dear... nelamvr6's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
I have nothing ( not much ) against meridians hifi ,but the sooloos streaming is just to expensive my squeeze stuff does the same and sound the same ( into my meridian hifi ) for a fraction of the cost. Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Mnyb wrote: sooloos streaming is just too expensive, my squeeze stuff does the same and sounds the samefor a fraction of the cost rolski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23776 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
It looks like Cambridge Audio has a couple of solutions that might work nicely: http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=952 http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=604 nelamvr6's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
The Cambridge player appears to read NTFS or FAT32 files so it would not work with a Linux system unless you had an NTFS partition with your music files rather than the default EXT4 SlimChances's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=165 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
SlimChances wrote: The Cambridge player appears to read NTFS or FAT32 files so it would not work with a Linux system unless you had an NTFS partition with your music files rather than the default EXT4...in fact I am not sure if it will work with Linux at all looking at the Support page http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/support_products.php?PID=604Title=Support I don't think that's right. Both of those devices support UPnP, and they say right on the front page they work with NASs. If I set up XBMC on my Linux box, why wouldn't it work? Where did you read about those restrictions? nelamvr6's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Moved to Apple TV a while back and don't regret it. The sb2 is in the drawer now waiting for the call from a tech museum or given other posts perhaps ebay. Atv for me works great with very little problems and the sound is great. It's a pity that sb's software for me anyway got very unreliable and the price remained relatively high. If they had produced a box under £100 with iTunes like simplicity and integration it may still be here. So have a look at the atv. I know some hate Apples stuff particularly iTunes but its a good and keenly priced system. Steven Moore's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=104 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
nelamvr6 wrote: I don't think that's right. Both of those devices support UPnP, and they say right on the front page they work with NASs. If I set up XBMC on my Linux box, why wouldn't it work? Where did you read about those restrictions? Support page http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/support_products.php?PID=604Title=Support There does not seem to be any supporting documentation for Linux but perhaps you are right SlimChances's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=165 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
The Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6 can be got at Big River for $999, eligible for Prime Delivery: http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Audio-Stream-Upsampling-Nework/dp/B00804T7LQ/ref=sr_1_18?s=electronicsie=UTF8qid=1355688731sr=1-18keywords=cambridge+audio That puts it squarely in competition with the Transporter, which is also available at Big River for $999 with Prime Delivery: http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Transporter%C2%AE-SE-Network-Player/dp/B0011YZ1R6/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronicsie=UTF8qid=1355688997sr=1-1keywords=squeezebox+transporter Right this second my Touch is working perfectly, but it's nice to know I do have options, and I don't have to resort to Sonos' low res version of high fidelity. nelamvr6's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
SlimChances wrote: Support page http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/support_products.php?PID=604Title=Support There does not seem to be any supporting documentation for Linux but perhaps you are right Looking in the NAS guide it appears directed to Windows users but I am not familiar with NAS setups There are several UPnP servers that work quite well on Linux, perhaps the best is XBMC: http://xbmc.org/ Once XBMC is up and running on your computer, the Cambridge device will find your music and play it. From all reports, it will play it quite well! It is pricier than the Touch that I'm listening to now, but at least it should work. And XBMC has quite a large support community. nelamvr6's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
My mistakeI run XBMC on my Win 7 machine for an HTPC ,but you are right XBMC will work on Linux system also SlimChances's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=165 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
SlimChances wrote: My mistakeI run XBMC on my Win 7 machine for an HTPC ,but you are right XBMC will work on Linux system also Isn't it a relief to know that we have options? :D Logitech/UE may yet come out with a product that makes these discussions moot, but I'm still pissed off that they killed the Squeezebox. I may switch just to spite them! :) I hope they don't mess up UE as much as they have SlimDevices. I just ordered a pair of UE900 IEMs. They're fairly well regarded at Head-Fi. Not a few people over there seemed surprised to see UE issue a good / great product after they were acquired by Logitech. But then again, Logitech didn't ruin SlimDevices immediately either, did they? nelamvr6's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
my main concern is: who will support LMS? lately my LMS scans aren't picking up iTunes playlists, and it may be because of iTunes 11. Who's going to keep LMS alive and well? i'm heartbroken over the news about Logitech not supporting the SB anymore (i can't find anything official about that on their website). eschurr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2007 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
mherger wrote: - The free TEN API access is limited: they only allow a certain number of queries per minute (20, upgradeable to 120). FWICT these are shared among all installations using the same API key, and they explicitly forbid using multiple API keys to work around this issue. OTOH they do mention other open source projects which were given less restrictive limits. The same applies to a limitation of 1000 profiles and mix session_ids: if I implemented a plugin and it became very popular, this might be another big issue, as there's at least one profile per installation. As you can imagine I have not come to these conclusions without some coding. Now let's hope I'll find some more time over the Holidays to tinker around with this... The TEN API sounds promising. Is there anything stopping each user using their own API key? The reason I dont use MusicIP is because it needs to run on Windows and my system runs on Linux (DockStar) Cheers, Menno menno's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11751 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
You can use MusicIP on Linux, I do that. Have a look at wiki.slimdevices.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
menno wrote: The TEN API sounds promising. Is there anything stopping each user using their own API key? The reason I dont use MusicIP is because it needs to run on Windows and my system runs on Linux (DockStar) Cheers, Menno The mip server runs fine on Linux (Clear OS in my case ) however the desktop app to analyse the files needs windows . It may not be completely trivial to make it run on any linux box in the dockstar case it migth actually be the cpu that is the problem ? don't know if mip server runs on anything but x86 . But that said I would also like to have mip replaced by something modern and supported ,mip is basically abandon-ware . And the need to run an extra server app that also needs to scan the files etc just so that i can use the sugarcube plugin is fiddly ? If there is anything to test I could volunteer as crash test dummy :) but maybe not in december as I'm moving to another town and my stuff will be in boxes not actively running Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
The mip server runs fine on Linux (Clear OS in my case ) however the desktop app to analyse the files needs windows . Ahm... nope. I'm running both on my Linux box, even run the UI using X Window from my Mac. But it's fiddly. If there is anything to test I could volunteer as crash test dummy :) Stay tuned! but maybe not in december as I'm moving to another town and my stuff will be in boxes not actively running C'mon?!? Whenever I moved, one SB and my server were the last things to wrap up, and first to be installed :-). -- Michael ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
The TEN API sounds promising. Is there anything stopping each user using their own API key? Don't register for multiple API keys in an attempt to cirumvent rate limits. http://developer.echonest.com/docs/v4 -- Michael ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Mnyb wrote: The mip server runs fine on Linux (Clear OS in my case ) however the desktop app to analyse the files needs windows I'm running both on my Linux box, though technically the UI presentation layer would run on my Mac through X Window. As for the TEN API: I just got news that some of the limitations I was afraid of were removed. There's still a rate limit accessing their API which means we'd need to be careful not to do unneeded queries. And a limitation to 1000 catalogs per key. But both these limits seem to be soft and can be discussed. We'll see. Maybe my fear of having more than 1000 users is a bit optimistic actually :-). mherger's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=50 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Hi guys Might be slightly going off topic :) But there is a Linux GUI and there is also GenPUID which can be scripted, so you dont need to have Windows. 14076 Cheers +---+ |Filename: linux-gui.jpg| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14076| +---+ cparker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2083 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
cparker wrote: Might be slightly going off topic :) But there is a Linux GUI and there is also GenPUID which can be scripted, so you dont need to have Windows. My problem is the last version of genpuid 1.4 can only update the Windows version of the database (1.9) so it's only good for archiving tags not to update the actual MIP database. When I ran the Windows version I could run genpuid with the multiple thread option on my desktop to update the database completely which was awesome, but sadly LMS really worked better under Linux so I had to give that up. I'd like to do the updating of the database using my desktop cpu instead of taxing my nas, but it can't get it to work as seamlessly under linux as I did under Windows. The real limitation of MIP at this point isn't the platform but the processor if everything keeps moving away from x86. That to me is the only reason to look beyond MIP, since it really is unique in the entire music mixing arena for reading tracks on their own merit as opposed to reading from a central database. My, albeit limited, experience with Pandora is that you end up with really generic mixes which are so heavily weighted by the genre and artist that you end up with similar sounds regardless of what you pick. I'm also skeptical that any cloud-based service can make sense of the numerous tagging inconsistencies that naturally occur in big music collections, but I'm curious as how well they do. MIP has definitely been one of the highlights for my of the Squeeze ecosystem and one of the main reasons that for me there is no next system beyond Squeeze only finding new ways to keep it going. That said Dynamic playlists have largely supplanted MIP mixes for most of my day to day listening. If there was a way to integrate the two to either tweak MusicIP more easily (most of the settings in SugarCube, the official plugin, and dynamic mix are too hard to change or not even read) or integrate into dynamic playlists (filter the musicip tracks and reject them based on other criteria) that would negate the need for anything else. sander's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10737 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
I have been running MIP on Ubuntu using WINE emulator with success. Allows for fingerprinting/archiving SlimChances's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=165 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
menno wrote: The reason I dont use MusicIP is because it needs to run on Windows and my system runs on Linux (DockStar) To echo the point of others, many of us run MusicIP just fine on many flavors of *nix. You don't even need to run it on a Windows emulator like WINE (mine runs fine on standard debian). Is your real problem the hardware, ie, that the DockStar CPU isn't x86? aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
mherger wrote: I'm running both on my Linux box, though technically the UI presentation layer would run on my Mac through X Window. As for the TEN API: I just got news that some of the limitations I was afraid of were removed. There's still a rate limit accessing their API which means we'd need to be careful not to do unneeded queries. And a limitation to 1000 catalogs per key. But both these limits seem to be soft and can be discussed. We'll see. Maybe my fear of having more than 1000 users is a bit optimistic actually :-). As avsked can we use individual keys ? Or if get more than 1000 users , could some kind of subscription model be worked out ? Understands that the echo nest serves clients with millions of users and may have scaled thier pricing accordingly :/ Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
See also 'The Echo Nest' (http://the.echonest.com/). Ok, so I did investigate their API a bit (it's extensive!). I do mostly compare with MusicIP (which I've been running for years), as I'd like to have a replacement for smart mixing my own collection. Tests were run on both my dev machine (about 3.5k tracks, MacBook Pro, SSD) as well as my main server (20k tracks, Atom based, 2.5 HD). As The Echo Nest is engine behind most of the larger music services' smart features, I did obviously experience some of the same behaviour as using those. For the differences to eg. Last.fm and Pandora, see this blog by one of the EN founders: http://notes.variogr.am/post/37675885491/how-music-recommendation-works-and-doesnt-work After playing with various implementations of smart playlists (MIP, Pandora, Last.fm, MOG, iHR, Deezer...) I'm glad he shares some of my concerns about them. Pro TEN: - little to no installation effort (assuming there's a plugin available - stay tuned ;-)) - available on any server hardware, even under-powered NAS devices - support for Artist (give me music from artists similar to A) and song (give me similar tracks) mixes - faster than MIP, both scanning/uploading as mixing on my (ymmv) - they have a vast array of well documented options to tweak mixes, including BPM, mood, more/less of this artist, hotttness (yes, hottt!) etc. - Big plus for TEN: it's available and maintained today, while MIP is dangling on a string Contra TEN: - no SB implementation available - yet - the free API access is limited. Only a number of users would be able to use a community driven solution. - TEN doesn't know all my music, MIP does. I've got spotty mixes even with big names like Peter Gabriel. - I personally prefer MIP's mixes. Exploring some of the more advanced parameters might improve this situation. And here's a bit more information about some of above points: - TEN requires you to provide them with some information about your local music collection (artist name track titles). These stay stored on their servers accessible through some key. If you have privacy concerns: don't touch it. (But then we had to upload hashes identifiying our music to MIP as well, didn't we?) - TEN doesn't need to scan your music. If you've got good tags, it's good enough to upload that minimum set of metadata plus some key to get things started. - Uploading metadata for about 20k tracks to TEN was much faster on my Atom based server than importing the corresponding data from MIP (not to mention the scan time MIP needs itself). Creating a 75 track playlist seems quicker using TEN than MIP in my case. - TEN can only mix tracks it knows about. While they claim to have information about 30mio tracks, it won't cover your neighbour's recording of the previous week. Or some more exotic recordings like eg. the German versions Peter Gabriel did of his 3rd and 4th albums. These latter wouldn't mix at all. MIP can handle these, as it scans your music, no matter what it is. Yes, you can upload such files to TEN to have them analyze them, but I doubt this is a reasonable approach. - Mix quality: IMHO it's easier to have eg a rock guitar mix with MIP than with TEN. But then TEN's API is very powerful, and I've only scratched its surface. But it's the same feeling I had with many of the music services: TEN seems to rely more on meta information like if you like artist A, then you might like B as well or periods, whereas MIP is based on their analysis of the music itself. Eg. I'm always surprised how MIP would queue up live recordings if I did seed it with a live track. It must be the audience clapping or something which triggers this. - TEN has tons of options to tweak. It's great to be able to tweak, but providing this in a good UI is difficult. - The free TEN API access is limited: they only allow a certain number of queries per minute (20, upgradeable to 120). FWICT these are shared among all installations using the same API key, and they explicitly forbid using multiple API keys to work around this issue. OTOH they do mention other open source projects which were given less restrictive limits. The same applies to a limitation of 1000 profiles and mix session_ids: if I implemented a plugin and it became very popular, this might be another big issue, as there's at least one profile per installation. As you can imagine I have not come to these conclusions without some coding. Now let's hope I'll find some more time over the Holidays to tinker around with this... -- Michael ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
As you can imagine I have not come to these conclusions without some coding. Now let's hope I'll find some more time over the Holidays to tinker around with this... While I was typing those lines my Transporter was playing tunes based on some Peter Gabriel track I can't remember, mixing in tracks from Yes, Supertramp, Marillion, David Gilmour, Pink Floyd, Toto, Genesis, David Bowie, The Police... Almost 80s only. That's what I never liked about every smart playlist on all those music services which seem to be powered by TEN: They pin down PG to his big 80s hit Sledgehammer. Anything before and after that does not exist in their mixes. MIP doesn't do this. Maybe I should increase the adventurousness value for the mix? Or lift the min_energy level? Too many options there... -- Michael ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
See also 'The Echo Nest' (http://the.echonest.com/). Ok, so I did investigate their API a bit (it's extensive!). I do mostly compare with MusicIP (which I've been running for years), as I'd like to have a replacement for smart mixing my own collection. Tests were run on both my dev machine (about 3.5k tracks, MacBook Pro, SSD) as well as my main server (20k tracks, Atom based, 2.5 HD). As The Echo Nest is engine behind most of the larger music services' smart features, I did obviously experience some of the same behaviour as using those. For the differences to eg. Last.fm and Pandora, see this blog by one of the EN founders: http://notes.variogr.am/post/37675885491/how-music-recommendation-works-and-doesnt-work After playing with various implementations of smart playlists (MIP, Pandora, Last.fm, MOG, iHR, Deezer...) I'm glad he shares some of my concerns about them. Pro TEN: - little to no installation effort (assuming there's a plugin available - stay tuned ;-)) - available on any server hardware, even under-powered NAS devices - support for Artist (give me music from artists similar to A) and song (give me similar tracks) mixes - faster than MIP, both scanning/uploading as mixing on my (ymmv) - they have a vast array of well documented options to tweak mixes, including BPM, mood, more/less of this artist, hotttness (yes, hottt!) etc. - Big plus for TEN: it's available and maintained today, while MIP is dangling on a string Contra TEN: - no SB implementation available - yet - the free API access is limited. Only a number of users would be able to use a community driven solution. - TEN doesn't know all my music, MIP does. I've got spotty mixes even with big names like Peter Gabriel. - I personally prefer MIP's mixes. Exploring some of the more advanced parameters might improve this situation. And here's a bit more information about some of above points: - TEN requires you to provide them with some information about your local music collection (artist name track titles). These stay stored on their servers accessible through some key. If you have privacy concerns: don't touch it. (But then we had to upload hashes identifiying our music to MIP as well, didn't we?) - TEN doesn't need to scan your music. If you've got good tags, it's good enough to upload that minimum set of metadata plus some key to get things started. - Uploading metadata for about 20k tracks to TEN was much faster on my Atom based server than importing the corresponding data from MIP (not to mention the scan time MIP needs itself). Creating a 75 track playlist seems quicker using TEN than MIP in my case. - TEN can only mix tracks it knows about. While they claim to have information about 30mio tracks, it won't cover your neighbour's recording of the previous week. Or some more exotic recordings like eg. the German versions Peter Gabriel did of his 3rd and 4th albums. These latter wouldn't mix at all. MIP can handle these, as it scans your music, no matter what it is. Yes, you can upload such files to TEN to have them analyze them, but I doubt this is a reasonable approach. - Mix quality: IMHO it's easier to have eg a rock guitar mix with MIP than with TEN. But then TEN's API is very powerful, and I've only scratched its surface. But it's the same feeling I had with many of the music services: TEN seems to rely more on meta information like if you like artist A, then you might like B as well or periods, whereas MIP is based on their analysis of the music itself. Eg. I'm always surprised how MIP would queue up live recordings if I did seed it with a live track. It must be the audience clapping or something which triggers this. - TEN has tons of options to tweak. It's great to be able to tweak, but providing this in a good UI is difficult. - The free TEN API access is limited: they only allow a certain number of queries per minute (20, upgradeable to 120). FWICT these are shared among all installations using the same API key, and they explicitly forbid using multiple API keys to work around this issue. OTOH they do mention other open source projects which were given less restrictive limits. The same applies to a limitation of 1000 profiles and mix session_ids: if I implemented a plugin and it became very popular, this might be another big issue, as there's at least one profile per installation. As you can imagine I have not come to these conclusions without some coding. Now let's hope I'll find some more time over the Holidays to tinker around with this... While I was typing these lines my Transporter was playing tunes based on some Peter Gabriel track I can't remember, mixing in tracks from Yes, Supertramp, Marillion, David Gilmour, Pink Floyd, Toto, Genesis, David Bowie, The Police... Almost 80s only. That's what I never liked about every smart playlist on all those music services which seem to be powered by TEN: They pin down PG to his big 80s hit Sledgehammer. Anything before and after that does not exist in their
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
I only discovered that SBs are discontinued via an email from Ripcaster suggesting that I trade-up (?) my Transporter to something in the Linn DS range! But I still shiver in horror every time I see the term UPnP: every UPnP device I've tried to use has been awful. There's always some function that I've considered critical that is simply not supported, and impossible to add on. (Can I create and control slideshows on my UPnP-enabled TV? No way. etc.) I've been wondering for several years, what would I do if my Transporter went kaput? Last year I bought a Cyrus X MP Qd (or some arrangement of those letters) which has a built-in D2A converter. Though I prefer the Transporter's line output, I always thought that I could fall back on the Cyrus, and perhaps connect one of my other Squeezeboxen, should the T die. When they've all gone (assuming that they do), I'm not sure what I'll do; maybe some sort of tiny computer with a massive hard drive (or perhaps massive SSD by then?) feeding the amp's d2a directly. That would only give us music in one room. Elsewhere, I'd probably have something portable, with its own copy of our library. I'm rarely bothered about syncing multiple rooms these days (though in part this is because our Virgin Media router's WiFi is too unreliable; either that or our Boom is on its way out already). Ideally it would have as good a sound as the Boom. (I've tried plugging an iPod into the Boom, and it's just not in the same league!) But the beasts aren't dead yet. Who knows what will be available by the time they are? Lossless audio, sync'd from the cloud? -- Brian Brian Ritchie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2319 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
garym wrote: Yes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_Genome_Project Pandora uses this technology to build their playlists See also 'The Echo Nest' (http://the.echonest.com/). nekomatic's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=57325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Such a shame that these products get removed. How much longer will the software be updated for? I was going to buy a Android tablet to remote control my Touch. But now I am concernd that they won't work together in the future due to possibly firmware incompatible reasons. Should I be? Kellen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16569 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Mnyb wrote: Sorry for being late if you don't want to install certain tweaks of questionable value . You can turn off wifi if your familiar with SSH and have turned on remote access in the Touch . Some familiarity with the vi editor , but just google how to use it and keep commands handy . Note factory resets can wipe this ,be prepared to redo after such things. For example edit this file: vi /etc/init.d/rcS In that file comment out the wlan start by putting a # before the line. # Start wlan # /etc/init.d/wlan start Another way edit or rather sabotage the wlan start-up script itself: vi /etc/init.d/wlan insert after the first line: (go down with cursor) use :i exit; To save in vi :wq! John Swenson suggested creating an an rc5.local file like this in another tread To do this, ssh into the touch then do: cd /etc/init.d vi rc5.local (press the 'i' key and then type iwconfig wlan0 txpower off /etc/init.d/wlan stop (press the escape key, type :wq (thats colon key, w key, q key) This creates the rc5.local file which will be run every time the touch boots, the iwconfig line turns off the transmitter. You can always turn of the wlan by simply typing iwconfig wlan0 txpower off at the prompt when using SSH but it does not stick after next reboot Thank you very much for taking the time to explain this. I'll try it. DC227's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=57269 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
PasTim wrote: JohnB's approach is a lot easier to manage (it's just that my brain can't handle Album = Work when it doesn't!). Sorry for this very late comment but I thought it worth mentioning that when I want to play a ripped CD as a 'CD' I use browse the music folders. When I want to play a specific work I can search for it very simply, as I posted. Of course, everyone has their own methods. The beauty of this forum is that we can share methods and get ideas which might help us. JohnB's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
JohnB wrote: Sorry for this very late comment but I thought it worth mentioning that when I want to play a ripped CD as a 'CD' I use browse the music folders. When I want to play a specific work I can search for it very simply, as I posted. Of course, everyone has their own methods. The beauty of this forum is that we can share methods and get ideas which might help us. Amazing how differently everyone treats things. My classical tracks are filed by composer, work, performer (pop is filed by Album). However, we have got a bit off message on this topic. I have been trying out some UPnP Control Points for my UPnP Client (a Musical Fidelity M1CLiC) with limited success on my Linux laptop, and my Android mobile. As server I have tried the Vortexbox DLNA server, plus foobar2000 and MediaTomb on another PC desktop running Linux. The best server for me is foobar2000 with the UPnP plug-in, not least because you can change the index so as to include non-standard tags, such as Work. This is the only server I have yet found that allows one to get away from just having Artist, Album, Genre etc. It runs OK on Linux under Wine - not perfect, but good enough. I can also use it as a Control Point on my laptop. However, none of this is 100% stable. MediaTomb is a good server, and if I worked at it might be more flexible than I have currently discovered. Leia has been the most stable Linux Control Point, with Skifta best so far on Android. Anywhichway - LMS is streets ahead on usability. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
JohnB wrote: Sorry for this very late comment but I thought it worth mentioning that when I want to play a ripped CD as a 'CD' I use browse the music folders. When I want to play a specific work I can search for it very simply, as I posted. Of course, everyone has their own methods. The beauty of this forum is that we can share methods and get ideas which might help us. Yes the way classic music evolved ( before the recording industry ) it is not only ill fitted to to the media (to dynamic and complete random collections to fill a disc and playing time does not fit anything ) no tagging schema have evolved with influence from classical music. Thus it does not sit well with any media player . Myself I do not listen much to classical ( I do sometimes ) but i do understand the problem , similar issue could be recognized in jazz or hip-hop/rap or folk where composers ,artist ,soloist ore not well behaved :) and actually in any music. But it is very evident in classical as most composers are dead and we almost never record original events but what rock fans would call cover/tribute bands ;) and focus shifts to who interpreted what in what context ? An effort to break this meta data paradigms would greatly enhance music listening and exploring , especially if the clues left in one piece of music could lead to another in a natural way ?? Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
Mnyb wrote: An effort to break this meta data paradigms would greatly enhance music listening and exploring , especially if the clues left in one piece of music could lead to another in a natural way ?? As some of us in IT have said The beauty of Standards is that there are so many of them (and thus keep loads of people in work). It's a real shame that no serious data analysis was done on music and possible cataloguing and relating schemes when mp3s, aac and their forerunners were first developed. With flacs you can do your own thing, and with the help of flexible servers, such as LMS with plugins (and even foobar2000 as a UPnP server), develop your own scheme. However it's fraught with problems, not least that some of the tools may not be flexible enough to do what you want, so you have to build on top of what exists now just in case. I find it difficult to believe that the basic data analysis is particularly difficult, it's just that it is too late in the evolution of music servers and storage standards to do much about it. Where it would get really clever would be in analysing the music itself and then suggesting relationships to other music. Has anyone ever attempted anything like this? PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
PasTim wrote: Where it would get really clever would be in analysing the music itself and then suggesting relationships to other music. Has anyone ever attempted anything like this? Yes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_Genome_Project Pandora uses this technology to build their playlists garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
What I'd like to have is a simple 'Play All Songs/Music' in a given Genre, Artist category. castalla's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15624 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
castalla wrote: What I'd like to have is a simple 'Play All Songs/Music' in a given Genre or Artist category. you can do this now. in LMS go to artist or genre, then click on all songs. And you can have random turned on or off. Also, I do all this with erland's dynamic playlists and sql playlist (for more control and so that I don't accidentally add 50,000 songs to a single playlist). garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
.and we have music ip and stuff or apple genius but it still fall short Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Now the Squeezebox is dead, what would your next system be? And why?
garym wrote: you can do this now. in LMS go to artist or genre, then click on all songs. And you can have random turned on or off. Also, I do all this with erland's dynamic playlists and sql playlist (for more control and so that I don't accidentally add 50,000 songs to a single playlist). Good grief! Blow me down - I've never noticed that before! I need new spectacles. castalla's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15624 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96191 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
