Re: Adding a database-agnostic JSONField into Django

[Cristiano Coelho]

I would like it. I honestly one use JsonField to store json data, not 
really to query it, and having postgres store it a very efficient way is a 
very nice plus compared to plain text storage. Then the postgres features 
to query json data are godlike but I wouldn't mind trading something to 
allow current json field work with every database, mostly so I can still 
develop on SQLite while running postgres on production.

El jueves, 23 de junio de 2016, 6:57:07 (UTC-3), Raphael Hertzog escribió:
>
> Hello, 
>
> in almost all projects I work on, I end up using a JSONField. Since 
> I value being able to run with any database, I'm not relying on 
> django.contrib.postgres.fields.JSONField. So I have been using 
> pypi's django-jsonfield maintained by Matthew Schinckel: 
> https://bitbucket.org/schinckel/django-jsonfield 
> (I have also packaged this for Debian) 
>
> I have recently discovered pypi's "jsonfield" maintained by Brad Jasper: 
> https://github.com/bradjasper/django-jsonfield 
>
> Both projects are very similar (and use the same python package name) and 
> both projects are actually looking for a new maintainer... since I rely on 
> something like this, I would be willing to try to merge the best of both 
> modules into a possible django.contrib.jsonfield or directly into the 
> core. 
>
> We could use this opportunity to let the newly-integrated field use 
> DjangoJSONEncoder by default (see recent discussion about this) and 
> django.contrib.postgres could register its additionals lookups into the 
> generic field (assuming we use "jsonb" as underlying type for postgresql). 
>
> What do you think of this? 
>
> If inclusion into Django is not desired, then maybe we could aim to 
> at least merge both of those projects in a single "blessed" third-party 
> module that could be maintained in 
> https://github.com/django/django-jsonfield? 
>
> Cheers, 
> -- 
> Raphaël Hertzog ◈ Writer/Consultant ◈ Debian Developer 
>
> Discover the Debian Administrator's Handbook: 
> → http://debian-handbook.info/get/ 
>

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Re: change commit message format to present tense?

[Aymeric Augustin]

> On 24 Jun 2016, at 23:27, Carl Meyer  wrote:
> 
> On 06/24/2016 03:04 PM, Tim Graham wrote:
>> With the idea of saving characters in the first line, would "Fix #XXX:
>> Message" be better than ""Fix #XXX -- Message" also? This saves two
>> characters without any loss of readability as far as I see.
> 
> Seems reasonable to me.

+0

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Re: change commit message format to present tense?

[Carl Meyer]

On 06/24/2016 03:04 PM, Tim Graham wrote:
> With the idea of saving characters in the first line, would "Fix #XXX:
> Message" be better than ""Fix #XXX -- Message" also? This saves two
> characters without any loss of readability as far as I see.

Seems reasonable to me.

Carl

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Re: change commit message format to present tense?

[Tim Graham]

With the idea of saving characters in the first line, would "Fix #XXX: 
Message" be better than ""Fix #XXX -- Message" also? This saves two 
characters without any loss of readability as far as I see.

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 4:44:10 PM UTC-4, Aymeric Augustin wrote:
>
> > On 24 Jun 2016, at 20:23, Carl Meyer > 
> wrote: 
> > 
> > The style that is most commonly recommended is described in the most 
> > detail (with reasoning) in these blog posts: 
> > 
> > http://tbaggery.com/2008/04/19/a-note-about-git-commit-messages.html 
> > http://chris.beams.io/posts/git-commit/ 
>
> Yes, let’s do that. 
>
> Django is the only project I’m aware of that uses the past tense 
> convention. 
> Keeping doing it differently from everyone else is a sunk cost fallacy. 
>
> Also every letter we save is a win when trying to fit in the hilariously 
> short 
> first line of every commit message. 
>
> -- 
> Aymeric. 
>
>
>

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Re: change commit message format to present tense?

[Aymeric Augustin]

> On 24 Jun 2016, at 20:23, Carl Meyer  wrote:
> 
> The style that is most commonly recommended is described in the most
> detail (with reasoning) in these blog posts:
> 
> http://tbaggery.com/2008/04/19/a-note-about-git-commit-messages.html
> http://chris.beams.io/posts/git-commit/

Yes, let’s do that.

Django is the only project I’m aware of that uses the past tense convention.
Keeping doing it differently from everyone else is a sunk cost fallacy.

Also every letter we save is a win when trying to fit in the hilariously short
first line of every commit message.

-- 
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Re: change commit message format to present tense?

[Marc Tamlyn]

This post by Tim Pope is considered the "definitive guide to commit
messages" as far as I'm aware.

http://tbaggery.com/2008/04/19/a-note-about-git-commit-messages.html

+1 to adopting this style.

On 24 June 2016 at 19:15, Jon Dufresne  wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Carl Meyer  wrote:
>
>> To be clear, the recommended git style is not present tense, it is
>> imperative mood. So it should _not_ be "Fixes #12345 -- Regulates the
>> frobnicator", it should be "Fix #12345 -- Regulate the frobnicator."
>>
>
> Do you have a link to an authoritative source stating this as the
> recommended style or is it just common knowledge?
>
> I'm not arguing against the proposal (in fact, I agree with it), I'm just
> curious if there is documentation to support one style over the other.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
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Re: change commit message format to present tense?

[Carl Meyer]

On 06/24/2016 12:15 PM, Jon Dufresne wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Carl Meyer  > wrote:
> 
> To be clear, the recommended git style is not present tense, it is
> imperative mood. So it should _not_ be "Fixes #12345 -- Regulates the
> frobnicator", it should be "Fix #12345 -- Regulate the frobnicator."
> 
> 
> Do you have a link to an authoritative source stating this as the
> recommended style or is it just common knowledge?
> 
> I'm not arguing against the proposal (in fact, I agree with it), I'm
> just curious if there is documentation to support one style over the other.

The style that is most commonly recommended is described in the most
detail (with reasoning) in these blog posts:

http://tbaggery.com/2008/04/19/a-note-about-git-commit-messages.html
http://chris.beams.io/posts/git-commit/

That same style is recommended in the Git Book in
https://git-scm.com/book/ch5-2.html

It is "endorsed" by git itself in that git uses the imperative mood when
it generates a commit message (e.g. for a merge) -- it generates "Merge
branch foo" not "Merges branch foo" or "Merged branch foo."

Also the git project's own commit messages use this style.

Carl




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Re: change commit message format to present tense?

[Daniele Procida]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016, Jon Dufresne  wrote:

>On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Carl Meyer  wrote:
>
>> To be clear, the recommended git style is not present tense, it is
>> imperative mood. So it should _not_ be "Fixes #12345 -- Regulates the
>> frobnicator", it should be "Fix #12345 -- Regulate the frobnicator."
>>
>
>Do you have a link to an authoritative source stating this as the
>recommended style or is it just common knowledge?
>
>I'm not arguing against the proposal (in fact, I agree with it), I'm just
>curious if there is documentation to support one style over the other.

Lately I keep being recommended .

The most compelling reason is that Git itself uses the imperative mood:

Merge branch ...

Revert ...

Daniele

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Re: change commit message format to present tense?

[Jon Dufresne]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:48 AM, Carl Meyer  wrote:

> To be clear, the recommended git style is not present tense, it is
> imperative mood. So it should _not_ be "Fixes #12345 -- Regulates the
> frobnicator", it should be "Fix #12345 -- Regulate the frobnicator."
>

Do you have a link to an authoritative source stating this as the
recommended style or is it just common knowledge?

I'm not arguing against the proposal (in fact, I agree with it), I'm just
curious if there is documentation to support one style over the other.

Cheers,
Jon

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Re: change commit message format to present tense?

[Carl Meyer]

To be clear, the recommended git style is not present tense, it is
imperative mood. So it should _not_ be "Fixes #12345 -- Regulates the
frobnicator", it should be "Fix #12345 -- Regulate the frobnicator."

Carl

On 06/24/2016 11:45 AM, Tobias McNulty wrote:
> I'm in support of this as well. Is the suggestion to change the format to:
> 
> A) Fixes #12345 -- Add support for ... / Validate that  / etc.
> 
> OR
> 
> B) Fixes #12345 -- Adds support for ... / Validates that ... / etc.
> 
> OR
> 
> C) Something else?
> 
> I assume (A) but others may interpret this differently?
> 
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Markus Holtermann
> mailto:i...@markusholtermann.eu>> wrote:
> 
> I don't mind either way. If everybody seems to use present tense these
> days, yeah, let's do that as well. As long as the general style of the
> commit messages stays: Fixes|Refs #12345 -- Make it work
> 
> My 2¢
> 
> /Markus
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 11:04:39AM -0600, Jacob Kaplan-Moss wrote:
> 
> I'm not entirely sure because my memory sucks, but odds are that
> I started
> the current standard of using past-tense.
> 
> FWIW I no longer care even at all, I think as long as commit
> messages are
> clear we I don't care what tense they are. Following the
> standard git way
> seems totally OK to me.
> 
> Jacob
> 
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Carl Meyer  > wrote:
> 
> On 06/24/2016 10:55 AM, Tim Graham wrote:
> > A few contributors indicated in #django-dev that it could
> be beneficial
> > to change our commit message format to match git's
> guidelines of present
> > tense (instead of our current past tense convention) as it
> would be one
> > less thing to remember when contributing to Django.
> Besides consistency
> > with the current history, do you feel there are any
> benefits in
> > continuing to use past tense instead of present tense?
> 
> I was one of those contributors in #django-dev. Not only are
> past-tense
> commit messages non-standard for git (meaning they are one
> more thing a
> new contributor is likely to trip over), I also personally
> find them
> harder to write and make clear. Sometimes in a commit
> message you need
> to reference past (pre-commit) behavior and make it clear
> how the commit
> changes that behavior. I occasionally find that harder to do
> clearly
> when the entire commit message is supposed to worded in the
> past tense.
> 
> So I find all the advantages (except for consistency with
> past history)
> in favor of switching to the imperative mood.
> 
> Carl
> 
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Re: change commit message format to present tense?

[Tobias McNulty]

I'm in support of this as well. Is the suggestion to change the format to:

A) Fixes #12345 -- Add support for ... / Validate that  / etc.

OR

B) Fixes #12345 -- Adds support for ... / Validates that ... / etc.

OR

C) Something else?

I assume (A) but others may interpret this differently?

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Markus Holtermann  wrote:

> I don't mind either way. If everybody seems to use present tense these
> days, yeah, let's do that as well. As long as the general style of the
> commit messages stays: Fixes|Refs #12345 -- Make it work
>
> My 2¢
>
> /Markus
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 11:04:39AM -0600, Jacob Kaplan-Moss wrote:
>
>> I'm not entirely sure because my memory sucks, but odds are that I started
>> the current standard of using past-tense.
>>
>> FWIW I no longer care even at all, I think as long as commit messages are
>> clear we I don't care what tense they are. Following the standard git way
>> seems totally OK to me.
>>
>> Jacob
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Carl Meyer  wrote:
>>
>> On 06/24/2016 10:55 AM, Tim Graham wrote:
>>> > A few contributors indicated in #django-dev that it could be beneficial
>>> > to change our commit message format to match git's guidelines of
>>> present
>>> > tense (instead of our current past tense convention) as it would be one
>>> > less thing to remember when contributing to Django. Besides consistency
>>> > with the current history, do you feel there are any benefits in
>>> > continuing to use past tense instead of present tense?
>>>
>>> I was one of those contributors in #django-dev. Not only are past-tense
>>> commit messages non-standard for git (meaning they are one more thing a
>>> new contributor is likely to trip over), I also personally find them
>>> harder to write and make clear. Sometimes in a commit message you need
>>> to reference past (pre-commit) behavior and make it clear how the commit
>>> changes that behavior. I occasionally find that harder to do clearly
>>> when the entire commit message is supposed to worded in the past tense.
>>>
>>> So I find all the advantages (except for consistency with past history)
>>> in favor of switching to the imperative mood.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>> --
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>>> .
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>>>
>>>
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Re: change commit message format to present tense?

[Markus Holtermann]

I don't mind either way. If everybody seems to use present tense these
days, yeah, let's do that as well. As long as the general style of the
commit messages stays: Fixes|Refs #12345 -- Make it work

My 2¢

/Markus

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 11:04:39AM -0600, Jacob Kaplan-Moss wrote:

I'm not entirely sure because my memory sucks, but odds are that I started
the current standard of using past-tense.

FWIW I no longer care even at all, I think as long as commit messages are
clear we I don't care what tense they are. Following the standard git way
seems totally OK to me.

Jacob

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Carl Meyer  wrote:


On 06/24/2016 10:55 AM, Tim Graham wrote:
> A few contributors indicated in #django-dev that it could be beneficial
> to change our commit message format to match git's guidelines of present
> tense (instead of our current past tense convention) as it would be one
> less thing to remember when contributing to Django. Besides consistency
> with the current history, do you feel there are any benefits in
> continuing to use past tense instead of present tense?

I was one of those contributors in #django-dev. Not only are past-tense
commit messages non-standard for git (meaning they are one more thing a
new contributor is likely to trip over), I also personally find them
harder to write and make clear. Sometimes in a commit message you need
to reference past (pre-commit) behavior and make it clear how the commit
changes that behavior. I occasionally find that harder to do clearly
when the entire commit message is supposed to worded in the past tense.

So I find all the advantages (except for consistency with past history)
in favor of switching to the imperative mood.

Carl

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Re: change commit message format to present tense?

[Jacob Kaplan-Moss]

I'm not entirely sure because my memory sucks, but odds are that I started
the current standard of using past-tense.

FWIW I no longer care even at all, I think as long as commit messages are
clear we I don't care what tense they are. Following the standard git way
seems totally OK to me.

Jacob

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Carl Meyer  wrote:

> On 06/24/2016 10:55 AM, Tim Graham wrote:
> > A few contributors indicated in #django-dev that it could be beneficial
> > to change our commit message format to match git's guidelines of present
> > tense (instead of our current past tense convention) as it would be one
> > less thing to remember when contributing to Django. Besides consistency
> > with the current history, do you feel there are any benefits in
> > continuing to use past tense instead of present tense?
>
> I was one of those contributors in #django-dev. Not only are past-tense
> commit messages non-standard for git (meaning they are one more thing a
> new contributor is likely to trip over), I also personally find them
> harder to write and make clear. Sometimes in a commit message you need
> to reference past (pre-commit) behavior and make it clear how the commit
> changes that behavior. I occasionally find that harder to do clearly
> when the entire commit message is supposed to worded in the past tense.
>
> So I find all the advantages (except for consistency with past history)
> in favor of switching to the imperative mood.
>
> Carl
>
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Re: change commit message format to present tense?

[Carl Meyer]

On 06/24/2016 10:55 AM, Tim Graham wrote:
> A few contributors indicated in #django-dev that it could be beneficial
> to change our commit message format to match git's guidelines of present
> tense (instead of our current past tense convention) as it would be one
> less thing to remember when contributing to Django. Besides consistency
> with the current history, do you feel there are any benefits in
> continuing to use past tense instead of present tense?

I was one of those contributors in #django-dev. Not only are past-tense
commit messages non-standard for git (meaning they are one more thing a
new contributor is likely to trip over), I also personally find them
harder to write and make clear. Sometimes in a commit message you need
to reference past (pre-commit) behavior and make it clear how the commit
changes that behavior. I occasionally find that harder to do clearly
when the entire commit message is supposed to worded in the past tense.

So I find all the advantages (except for consistency with past history)
in favor of switching to the imperative mood.

Carl

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change commit message format to present tense?

[Tim Graham]

A few contributors indicated in #django-dev that it could be beneficial to 
change our commit message format to match git's guidelines of present tense 
(instead of our current past tense convention) as it would be one less 
thing to remember when contributing to Django. Besides consistency with the 
current history, do you feel there are any benefits in continuing to use 
past tense instead of present tense?

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Re: Adding a database-agnostic JSONField into Django

[Raphael Hertzog]

Hi,

Le vendredi 24 juin 2016, Shai Berger a écrit :
> > Why would you want to discourage people? In the recent thread "Extending
> > JSONField serialization", you said yourself that the use-case for a
> > JSONField is clearly to store and retrieve data and not to make queries on
> > it with smart lookups.
> 
> So, what you're suggesting is actually a thin wrapper around TextField, which 
> deals with the JSON encoding?

That's the simplest answer that fullfills this requirement but I'm not
suggesting that.

I believe that a "core" JSONField should supersede all the existing
implementations:
- the external implementations which are close to your description
  (but got multiple related features over the years, not all of which are
  worth keeping)
- the django.contrib.postgres one
- the django-mysql one (that I wasn't aware of until Tim pointed out
  the older thread on this topic)

So, in my view, it builds on the simplest implementation while relying
on the native JSON database type when they are available and it should
be easy to extend for the non-portable JSON-related features that each
database might want to make available (special lookups, etc.).

Even with a "thin wrapper", as soon as you rely on the native database types,
you quickly get into non-trivial integrations problems:
- with migrations from TextField to JSONField and vice-versa
  ex: 
https://bitbucket.org/schinckel/django-jsonfield/issues/54/migrating-from-textfield-to-jsonfield-with
- with configuration requirements of the database connector that might have an 
impact
  on other parts of Django
  example where pyscopg does under the hood JSON conversion for us:
  
https://bitbucket.org/schinckel/django-jsonfield/pull-requests/32/make-from_db_value-compatible-with

On top of the model field, there would also be a FormField validating the
JSON input and a widget to present the JSON in a human-readable (indented)
form.

Among the other features that would be interesting to have is the
possibility to swap in a more advanced serializer (which would be able 
to deal with more types of objects than the default one).

> I'm not sure the scope justifies a DEP, but some discussion of the API should 
> happen. Personally, I'm not yet convinced that -- assuming indeed we are 
> talking about a thinly-wrapped TextField -- such a field needs to have a 
> canonical implementation (one declared so by the Django project).

Did my answer clear your doubts?

Cheers,
-- 
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Re: Adding a database-agnostic JSONField into Django

[Raphael Hertzog]

Le vendredi 24 juin 2016, Aymeric Augustin a écrit :
> On 24 Jun 2016, at 09:01, Raphael Hertzog  wrote:
> > Why would you want to discourage people?
> Well, this seemed to be the latest decision, but I don’t care much myself.

AFAIK only Marc Tamlyn insisted on such a requirement to have native JSON
support on all main databases.

While this is nice and should be encouraged, it's also the kind of
requirement which discourages people from working on it.

We have working codebase(s) for a generic JSONField. I would like to pick
one, clean it up, strip it down and make it easy to extend so that native
JSON support for more database can be easily added while still keeping
the same user facing API.

The non-portable parts (lookups mainly?) should ideally be enabled via
hooks that applications like django.contrib.postgres could rely on.

> Given the relatively isolated scope of this feature, I think that reaching
> consensus in this thread would suffice. (I don’t think we’re quite there yet.)

Yes, few core team members shared their opinions so far, but we clearly have
user interest for this feature.

> A DEP could help, though, so if you’d like to write a short one, please go
> ahead!

Well, if there's consensus I'd rather spend time on code to be reviewed, but
if others core team members would rather discuss the design at at more
abstract level before deciding whether it's a good move, then I can draft a DEP.

Cheers,
-- 
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Re: Adding a database-agnostic JSONField into Django

[Shai Berger]

On Friday 24 June 2016 10:01:36 Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Le jeudi 23 juin 2016, Aymeric Augustin a écrit :
> > On 23 Jun 2016, at 15:40, Tim Graham  wrote:
> > > Marc said, "I'm happy for JSONField to be made a core field on the
> > > condition that it's underlying support is more than a text blob on all
> > > our main databases. It sounds like this will soon be the case.”
> > 
> > In order to discourage people from using JSONField on databases where it
> > cannot be implemented efficiently i.e. not with a text blob, the best
> > solution may be to add it to Django and raise a warning when it’s
> > misused.
> 
> Why would you want to discourage people? In the recent thread "Extending
> JSONField serialization", you said yourself that the use-case for a
> JSONField is clearly to store and retrieve data and not to make queries on
> it with smart lookups.
> 

So, what you're suggesting is actually a thin wrapper around TextField, which 
deals with the JSON encoding?

> Is there a need for a DEP to discuss the interface provided by this field?

I'm not sure the scope justifies a DEP, but some discussion of the API should 
happen. Personally, I'm not yet convinced that -- assuming indeed we are 
talking about a thinly-wrapped TextField -- such a field needs to have a 
canonical implementation (one declared so by the Django project).

Shai.

Re: Adding a database-agnostic JSONField into Django

[Aymeric Augustin]

On 24 Jun 2016, at 09:01, Raphael Hertzog  wrote:

> Why would you want to discourage people?

Well, this seemed to be the latest decision, but I don’t care much myself.

> What would be the next logical step if I want to work on this?
> 

> Is there a need for a DEP to discuss the interface provided by this field?


Given the relatively isolated scope of this feature, I think that reaching
consensus in this thread would suffice. (I don’t think we’re quite there yet.)

A DEP could help, though, so if you’d like to write a short one, please go
ahead!

-- 
Aymeric.

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Re: Adding a database-agnostic JSONField into Django

[Raphael Hertzog]

Hi,

Le jeudi 23 juin 2016, Aymeric Augustin a écrit :
> On 23 Jun 2016, at 15:40, Tim Graham  wrote:
> > Marc said, "I'm happy for JSONField to be made a core field on the
> > condition that it's underlying support is more than a text blob on all
> > our main databases. It sounds like this will soon be the case.”
> 
> In order to discourage people from using JSONField on databases where it
> cannot be implemented efficiently i.e. not with a text blob, the best
> solution may be to add it to Django and raise a warning when it’s
> misused.

Why would you want to discourage people? In the recent thread "Extending
JSONField serialization", you said yourself that the use-case for a
JSONField is clearly to store and retrieve data and not to make queries on
it with smart lookups.

So while I would certainly want the generic JSONField to use the most
appropriate field type for each database, I don't think we have to wait
until all major databases have the required support. And we should
certainly not throw warnings if you use it on a database that doesn't have
any special JSON support since that is one of the selling point of this
generic module!

The generic JSONField should define the appropriate interface and have
all the logic to easily customize the behaviour for each database, but
it's also fine if it starts with using plain TEXT fields on everything
except MySQL/Postgres (which are the two databases where there are
pre-existing JSONField implementation apparently).

What would be the next logical step if I want to work on this?

Is there a need for a DEP to discuss the interface provided by this field?

Cheers,
-- 
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