On 10/31/20 11:18 AM, wirelessduck--- via Dng wrote:
On 31 Oct 2020, at 10:52, Simon Walter wrote:
On 10/30/20 3:19 AM, Bernard Rosset via Dng wrote:
That said, I've stopped using unbound and I'm using straight BIND as my
local resolver lately. It's pleasant.
From what we d
On 10/30/20 7:29 AM, Rick Moen wrote:
...
FWIW, I am no longer comfortable with the idea of a combined
authoritative/recursive server on a publicly exposed static IP.
That has been deprecated for long decades as bad security, particularly
because it increases the risk of cache poisoning of the re
On 10/30/20 3:19 AM, Bernard Rosset via Dng wrote:
That said, I've stopped using unbound and I'm using straight BIND as my
local resolver lately. It's pleasant.
From what we discovered about unbound during one of the meetings, I
clearly do not trust that technology.
What meetings? Is it pos
On 2020-10-29 20:12, o1bigtenor via Dng wrote:
> Greetings
>
> Found the list of MUA useful.
>
> The last time I went looking though - - - it seemed to me anyway that
> much more than just a MUA is needed for a complete system.
>
> Would someone be able to outline for the unknowing what all actu
On 2020-10-28 08:20, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Dimitris T. via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org):
>
>> still recommending TB to clients/people though...
>
> In case it's useful, I keep a list of all known MUAs for Linux, here:
> http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Mail/muas.html
> Necessary disclaimer: As anyone
On 2020-10-28 07:47, Rick Moen wrote:
...
> I continue to like projects that are limited in feature scope enough to
> not live or die by corporate underwriting. E.g., mutt continues to be
> maintainable by a small group of motivated developers. When I want it
> to be graphical, I run it in an xte
On 10/26/20 5:07 AM, Dimitris via Dng wrote:
forgot to mention seamonkey (https://www.seamonkey-project.org/).
--
also these days, webmail/nextcloud can be used as groupware too, with
calendars/contacts included.. webmail gpg support is very rare (for a
pretty good reason imo), but mailpile ca
On 10/25/20 7:20 AM, Mark Rousell wrote:
On 23/10/2020 08:04, Simon Walter wrote:
Has any of you TB users (assuming there are any here} done this
migration? How is the new shiny? Is it fine? Shall I forget about TB?
Any suggestions of what could replace it?
I'm not in a hurry to do
On 10/24/20 7:03 AM, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
..heh, I've used Claws for over 18 years now, ever since it was known
as Sylpheed version 0.7.2 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i586-pc-linux-gnu), never
really looked back, it's email the way email was meant to be. :o)
Oh it's Sylpheed. I used that at one time when I ha
On 10/23/20 7:27 PM, Dimitris via Dng wrote:
On 10/23/20 10:04 AM, Simon Walter wrote:
Has any of you TB users (assuming there are any here} done this
migration? How is the new shiny? Is it fine? Shall I forget about TB?
Any suggestions of what could replace it?
yes it works, but not
hich, like many of you, is why
I don't like it when software changes.
Best regards,
Simon
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On 2020-10-11 08:10, g4sra via Dng wrote:
> On 10/10/2020 21:47, Simon Walter wrote:
>> On 2020-10-08 21:08, g4sra via Dng wrote:
>> -- snip --
>>>
>>> Anybody enlighten me about the meaning of the phrase...
>>>
>>> 'The controller see
On 2020-10-08 21:08, g4sra via Dng wrote:
> On 08/10/2020 04:30, Simon Walter wrote:
>> On 2020-10-05 11:23, tom wrote:
>> ...
>>>
>>> I would appreciate if we kept this on-board unless needed. Never know
>>> when someone in the future might find it use
On 2020-10-05 11:23, tom wrote:
...
>
> I would appreciate if we kept this on-board unless needed. Never know
> when someone in the future might find it useful.
>
I would appreciate that too!
I use it mainly on servers, but also some dev env. I used the LXC and
Debian documentation to get start
On 2020-09-27 19:25, . via Dng wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I have a thinkpad laptop with a separate numeric keypad. I was using
> devuan ascii with KDE happily on this machine, but when I upgraded to
> beowulf I lost the use of the numeric keypad. It appears to be
> KDE/plasma that's at fault, so I
On 2020-09-28 19:48, g4sra via Dng wrote:
> On 28/09/2020 02:29, Hendrik Boom wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 01:35:55AM +0200, aitor_czr wrote:
>>> On 27/9/20 13:59, g4sra via Dng wrote:
I have reservations about where QT5 is going, despite any issue with
pulseaudio, now might be a go
roposal (followed through with implementation), pushed though
ignoring any objections, known to break existing setups/configurations
(deliberately so), and accompanied with a "I/we don't care, it's your
responsibility to fix/work around whatever I/we break" att
ay others' freedoms in
a small way.
Hmm, didn't Devuan come into being partly due to someone pushing a policy of
not caring what he breaks for other people ? Sorry, that was a bit below the
belt but I hope it illustrates the issue. Luckily the breakages with email have
(mostly)
over the neighbours.
> Another possibility to discard spammers claiming to be your domain is to set
> SPF -all. That, however, has other drawbacks.
I think you missed the context.
For *MY* mail server, I can ignore any SPF records etc - if the connecting
client claims to be me then
linux mailer SMTP, where it came with
> teo alternative sets of greetings. I always preferred the second option
> of;
> "Who are you going to pretend to be today" and the response
> "Thrilled beyond bladder control to meet you"
> and so on.
That's great :D
I
s hosted) gives me a /64 IPv6 block
> for free. That's 2^64 addresses. And the same with our home ISP, in case
> I felt like violating the terms and running a server.
Yeah, I can have a /56 or /48 for IPv6. How many IPv4 addresses do you have
since
ure there are some constraints. In any case, there
are some thing it makes sense to block - so-one else should be running a mail
server and claiming to be in my domain, stuff like that. Some basic protocol
checks block a good proportion of spam - and very cheaply in terms of resou
ent and changed my settings in their control panel to wrong
settings, and lost mail that they'd had queued on the wrong server for some
time (triggered delivery without any notice, but from the wrong server and my
server rejected them as it only allowed mail specific servers (the ones
- and at no time would the customer be told about
O365's dirty secret, that it will throw away some of your main and you'll never
know unless the sender contacts you via a different means. Clients were also
told that there was no GDPR
On 2020-09-09 15:53, Brad Campbell via Dng wrote:
> On 5/9/20 10:38 pm, Simon Walter wrote:
>> On 9/5/20 12:50 PM, Gregory Nowak wrote:
>>> On Sat, Sep 05, 2020 at 12:26:21PM +0900, Simon Walter wrote:
>>>> Reallocation, to my knowledge, should happen in the backgro
On 9/5/20 12:50 PM, Gregory Nowak wrote:
On Sat, Sep 05, 2020 at 12:26:21PM +0900, Simon Walter wrote:
Reallocation, to my knowledge, should happen in the background. It's
*possible* that the reallocation event and the FS corruption are unrelated.
My understanding is that the drive
se-SATA-hard-drive-caddy-hot-swap-hdd.jpg
Best regards,
Simon
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fsck found
the corruption.
That's just a bit too much to get into. I would only worry about it if
the reallocated sector count keeps rising.
For always connected disks, smartd is your friend.
Best regards,
Simon
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On 9/5/20 11:19 AM, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
On 2020-09-04 20:46, Simon Walter wrote:
On 9/5/20 1:34 AM, Andreas Messer wrote:
Hi golinux,
On Fri, Sep 04, 2020 at 01:50:07AM -0500, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
On 2020-09-01 00:07, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
[...]
I have no idea how reliable the
from the information provided to
this mailing list. I know it's possible to see that in the SMART data,
but I didn't see that posted. Are short reads always surface errors?
Best regards,
Simon
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https:/
ors. So head failure is an issue, and can
also be predicted by SMART data. Mishandling of drives is something that
SMART can't predict of course. ;)
Best regards,
Simon
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, I second the suggestion for rsync.
Simon
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.
And of course, we all trust Faceborg to to abuse such access don't we, after
all they have no track record whatsoever of dodgy dealing or ignoring the law
do they ?
Simon
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with people and they have made that decision.
At the day job we are starting to use Teams. I can see a lot going for it, but
it also looks like more of the same slow, clumsy, eye candy we've come to
expect from MS.
Simon
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veryone could see it would
also be blown away, but there is too much riding on business as usual to allow
such details as fundamental incompatibility between the two sets of law to get
in the way.
Simon
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load direct from Zoom's website.
I recall trying it out not long ago, I "wasn't impressed" with some of the
dependencies - it seems to pull in a lot of dubious looking stuff.
Ozi Traveller via Dng wrote:
> I've switched to teams.
That&
On 2020-08-03 07:36, Ian Zimmerman wrote:
> On 2020-08-02 17:00, Hendrik Boom wrote:
>> What is NFT?
>
> nftables, the slowly arriving successor to iptables.
>
https://wiki.debian.org/nftables
I've been using Shorewall for years. I only just now learned that:
https://sourceforge.net/p/shorewall
is run to bring up networking.
I'll have another go at it when I next get a bit of spare time.
Simon
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On 2020-07-09 03:57, Jim Jackson wrote:
>
> https://linuxreviews.org/Mpv_drops_GNOME_support
>
I love the poetry a commenter left. He knows how I feel.
"Fuck GNOME devs coming straight from tha underground
A young hacker got it bad cos he's out
of other FOSS choices so devs think
They have the
p-users mailing list https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcp-users
Mind you, the first of those does seem "rather old" !
Simon
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here that's happening.
I think I'll ask the same question over at the ISC DHCP list, we're a friendly
bunch over there, but it's more an OS question than a DHCP one. Still, there's
a range of experience, so someone else might have hit this and know the answer.
Simon
As
s apart which ties in with the timestamps
of my packet capture files.
Can anyone give me any hint as to what is bringing up the network before it is
supposed to be ?
Simon
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lot of possible causes, which makes fixing the problem
tricky.
Simon
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in rc?.d, thereby
> rejecting the idea of stable renumbering in order to keep existing order where
> possible (fix-init).
And contributing to the "SysVInit is bad - it's scripts are too long"
"argument" from certain quarters.
Simon
pdate drops all lsb-* compatibility packages, and is therefore an
> abandon of the pursuit of LSB compatibility for Debian. Only lsb-release and
> lsb-base are kept as they continue to be used throughout the archive.
Simon
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hink)
for a long time now.
Simon
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roperable with anything else, while
FreeSwan and OpenSwan were having a bun fight.
Simon
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ch results related to file with no directory entry, but the
inode staying in existence due to the file being open. As in, "I want to create
a directory entry pointing to a specific inode to rescue the file so it doesn't
disappear when closed". I didn't actually look at any of thes
e specific on how they failed and
what the reason they failed if you want to be taken seriously. What
motherboard? You don't mention a motherboard, just a 2200G.
Simon
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On 3/18/20 7:12 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2020 10:59:41 +0100
"Dr. Nikolaus Klepp" wrote:
Anno domini 2020 Tue, 17 Mar 10:27:11 +0100
Didier Kryn scripsit:
...
There's now a fashion of doing all innovations in a
complicated way. It seems developpers have become unable to th
On 3/16/20 1:22 AM, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
...
- Note that firefox-esr no longer requires pulseaudio. You can easily
remove pulseaudio and just use alsa.
Oh yeah! I can watch Youtube now with Firefox now!
Thanks for the news and for the for Devuan!
me dir off it's server on whatever
machine you are using ? Something perfectly doable since ... err ... long
before I ever got involved with any unix[like] system.
Simon
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applaud your thinking, but alas I fear the result may be https://xkcd.com/927/
> Also, who has time to rewrite polkit and dbus from scratch?
Alas I have neither the time nor skills to help with such a project :-(
Simon
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n the directory, while
"below" means those items within other directories.
So /usr/local/foo is "in" /usr/local and /usr/local/something/foo is "below"
/usr/local. I'm not sure which designation /usr/local/something (being a
directory rather than a file) comes
Steve Litt wrote:
> ... we could at least
> change the munge string from:
>
> Firstname Lastname via Dng
>
> to:
>
> GOES TO DNG (IRT Firstname Lastname)
>
> So when you do "return to sender" and it crazily puts
> dng@lists.dyne.org in the To field, at least that To field won't be
> disguis
n one of the disk utils ?
Simon
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backup.
Ah, but zero the whole disk and it will
dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb bs=1M
It'll use one write cycle on the media.
Simon
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On 12/9/19 8:56 PM, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Dec 2019 15:24:05 +0900, Simon wrote in message
> <6d01ab17-3ab2-bc52-cbb2-f838087fe...@gikaku.com>:
>> I suppose this is from upstream. Does anyone about this? I thought
>> maybe other privacy conscious users would lik
is is from upstream. Does anyone about this? I thought maybe
other privacy conscious users would like to know. It seems like the
exact thing that the Chromium package maintainer would remove or document.
Best regards,
Simon
PS
I removed the screenshot as I think it may not be allo
On 11/19/19 8:21 PM, hal wrote:
> Is anyone doing QEMU/KVM incremental backups of a running VM? I'm trying
> to find some info on how best to accomplish the backup as well as a
> restore.
I have not done it with a VM, but I suppose it should work fine: LVM
snapshot. I take one every 30 minutes on
Jim Jackson wrote:
> (*) These pi's are a lot more powerfull than the Sun Sparc servers we had
> NFS serving user data to 60+ workstations back in the 00's :-)
Ah yes, to think that many of us routinely carry around in our pockets more
storage, RAM, and CPU capacity than we could have dreamed
On 10/1/19 12:57 AM, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> On 2019-09-30 09:27, Simon Walter wrote:
>> On 9/29/19 12:36 PM, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
>>> Sorry Steve . . . I think this idea is naive, ill-advised and a tactical
>>> error that could have very real, unintended cons
On 9/29/19 12:36 PM, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
> Sorry Steve . . . I think this idea is naive, ill-advised and a tactical
> error that could have very real, unintended consequences.
So that the ignorant among us can understand learn, do you mind telling
us why?
Thanks,
On 9/27/19 7:25 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
...
>
> Basically, Kmail became dependent on a huge database called Akonadi and
> an always dragging lookup facility called Nepomuk, to the point that
> you couldn't fix things by moving files around or changing a config. I
> bailed out of Kmail, and six month
I heard them talking about this on Jupiter Broadcasting. I think it was
in a previous episode they mentioned Devuan too and talked about how
some maintainers of Debian are having second thoughts.
As with PulseAudio and Systemd, it might be a good idea, but the way Mr.
Pottering goes about things i
Didier Kryn wrote:
> Therefore it means IBM doesn't care anymore in PowerPc arch ... That's what I
> fear, actually.
I don't think it means that. It's clear that PowerPC is stuck as a niche
architecture. The only way out of that is to get lots of people using it - and
making it freely availab
Chris Richmond wrote:
> Aug 4 18:33:15 teton dhclient[3755]: Listening on LPF/eth1/00:1c:c0:e1:d0:ff
> Aug 4 18:33:15 teton dhclient[3755]: Sending on LPF/eth1/00:1c:c0:e1:d0:ff
> Aug 4 18:33:15 teton dhclient[3755]: Sending on Socket/fallback
> Aug 4 18:33:15 teton dhclient[3755]: DHCPDI
Miles Fidelman wrote:
> ... then see which drive's lights flash a lot (if the drive has a light).
Ah yes, those were the days .
I can only assume that they were dropped to save money - and it's really
annoying when trying to do things like this (figure out which drive is which).
I've noted tha
Haines Brown wrote:
> I tried the chroot method, but with little luck.
...
># chroot /sysroot
>
># grub-install /dev/sdb
>bash grub-install: command not found
>
># ls -la /usr/sbin | grep grub-install
>-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 102046 Oct 28 2018 grub-insta
Steve Litt wrote:
> Simon Hobson wrote:
>> 1) use grub rescue cd (which you can put on a USB stick). Then fairly
>> easy to sort out by picking the right menu options.
>
> Do you mean:
>
> * Super Grub2 Disk (https://sourceforge.net/projects/supergrub2/)
I see two other ways to make this easy, both of which have worked for me in the
past :
1) use grub rescue cd (which you can put on a USB stick). Then fairly easy to
sort out by picking the right menu options.
2) use these incantations, lifted from a post elsewhere :
mkdir /sysroot
mount /dev/
I've been lurking and resisting from posting, largely because ... I'm the last
person to be telling people how to communicate in a friendly manner. I'm
autistic, and one of the traits I get from that is the tendency to completely
miss the subtleties of interpersonal communications, and to speak
KatolaZ wrote:
> I joined this project much before it was called Devuan, and I have
> always considered it a battle worth to be fought, day after day. I
> promised myself that I would have continued contributing to Devuan
> until the day we would have started talking corporate bullshit, or
> stop
chillfan wrote:
> Katolaz is working very hard to ensure we have releases, but I didn't realise
> he was doing all this even.
I didn't either.
So another +1 for Katolaz and all the work he's doing. And everyone else of
course, but I think it's a bit unfair for people to be calling for heads on
On 4/2/19 6:14 PM, hal wrote:
>
>
> On 4/1/19 1:30 PM, KatolaZ wrote:
>
>>
>> There was no attack. There was no security incident. It was an April
>> fool. We have clarified that several times. I have apologised for
>> that. I am very sorry for the distress caused :\
>
> I think it's noteworthy
Rick Moen wrote:
>
> Quoting etech3 (ete...@e-tech-systems.com):
>
>> My advice to you is like the Marines motto: Lead, follow or get the
>> hell out of the way.
>
>
>
> That might be the motto of _some_ group of marines, but FWIW actual
> service mottos are:
I suspect that he wasn't meaning
Alessandro Selli wrote:
>> Hard to believe I listened to the same talk Corbet
>> is describing. What I heard was a propaganda piece,
>> finding reasons to sell the systemd approach
>> to BSD conference attendees.
>
> Not really. He points out there were good reasons to want a new init,
> that
Massimo Coppola wrote:
> But I guess there's no need either to list all technical systemd issues here,
> or accept the unsound logic that unkind developers are the only reason of
> systemd criticism.
With all the hot air, I suspect that many people have lost sight of the
distinction between a
On 1/23/19 6:48 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote:
> On 22/01/19 at 18:28, Hendrik Boom wrote:
>> On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 01:37:17AM +0900, Simon Walter wrote:
>>> I don't see what sound has to do with that. Gotta have that video stream?
>> If you're a video journalist,
On 1/22/19 4:38 PM, goli...@dyne.org wrote:
> On 2019-01-22 01:12, Arnt Karlsen wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 Jan 2019 14:04:02 +0900, Simon wrote in message
>> <24516662-997c-fa54-ab14-d12437192...@gikaku.com>:
>>
>>> IMCO, If a piece of software requires Puls
IMCO, If a piece of software requires PulseAudio, it deserves to be silent.
I run a studio and muck around with "pro" linux audio apps from time to
time but mostly xwax. That is why I knew Systemd would be no good. I
want to hear the excuses for wasting CPU cycles and damaging ears from
you-know-w
On 1/11/19 12:24 PM, Simon Walter wrote:
> On 1/9/19 4:47 PM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
>> On 09.01.19 13:48, Simon Walter wrote:
>>> This still did not work. So after learning about connman, I decided to
>>> try that. I removed NetworkManager and reinstalled connman and
On 1/9/19 4:47 PM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> On 09.01.19 13:48, Simon Walter wrote:
>> This still did not work. So after learning about connman, I decided to
>> try that. I removed NetworkManager and reinstalled connman and the
>> "systray" app cmst "just wor
Simon Walter wrote:
> Yes, wireless LAN works from all my other computers. The Internet is
> accessible from them. I have a router that does the PPPOE and DHCP and
> DNS and NTP and a bunch of other things (dd-wrt).
>
> I can connect to the wireless LAN via NetworkManager. I
On 1/9/19 2:54 AM, info at smallinnovations dot nl wrote:
> On 08-01-19 13:59, Simon Walter wrote:
>>
>> Many thanks for the help.
>>
>> Yes, wireless LAN works from all my other computers. The Internet is
>> accessible from them. I have a router that does the PPPO
On 1/8/19 9:29 PM, Simon Hobson wrote:
> Simon Walter wrote:
>
>> Maybe there is some kind of conflict with another package. I have no DNS
>> resolution. I do not have the full dnsmasq package installed - just the
>> dnsmasq-base.
>
> I think you need to take
Simon Walter wrote:
> Maybe there is some kind of conflict with another package. I have no DNS
> resolution. I do not have the full dnsmasq package installed - just the
> dnsmasq-base.
I think you need to take a step back and diagnose this logically. You need to
start with the ba
On 1/8/19 8:55 PM, J. Fahrner via Dng wrote:
> Am 2019-01-08 12:45, schrieb Simon Walter:
>> Did it work on a fresh install? Or did you have to configure anything?
>
> Yes. The only thing you have to note: the interfaces it should manage
> must not be listed in /etc/network/int
On 1/8/19 8:41 PM, J. Fahrner via Dng wrote:
> Am 2019-01-08 12:12, schrieb Simon Walter:
>> I have a simple question: Is NetworkManager supposed to work?
>
> Yes, it works.
>
>> It has not worked in Jessie and it does not work in Ascii. I have read
>> the manuals
On 1/8/19 8:21 PM, KatolaZ wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 08, 2019 at 08:12:12PM +0900, Simon Walter wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Happy New Year! May 2019 be fantastic for you!
>>
>> I have a simple question: Is NetworkManager supposed to work?
>>
>> I am try
grumpy old man and
want to try the new stuff with this laptop. Since there is a possibility
that it just doesn't work, I thought to ask here. If it is supposed to
work, is there any howto or tute that I can lead me?
Many thanks and best wishes for 2019,
Rick Moen wrote:
> Back in the day, I gave out /etc/aliases entries to friends that
> leveraged the 'mafia' theme of my linuxmafia.com domain,
In our case it was simple alias entries ina database queried by Postfix - but
same effect and same problem.
> SRS (sender rewriting scheme) was SPF cr
Rick Moen wrote:
> Simon, I appreciate your pitching in to attempt to answer this question.
> A few necessary corrections, though:
Correction noted. However, in my defence my issues (which I no longer have to
deal with) were with mail forwarding in servers rather than mailing lists (IIR
Michael wrote:
>> Argh. Sending to the list this time.
>>
>> Please don't set "Reply-to" on list emails.
>>
>> Antony.
>
> I’m pretty sure the individuals aren’t doing it explicitly. This list just
> doesn’t seem to create, or override really, the headers quite right. Some
> messages here
Rick Moen wrote:
>> In part, Linux adoption is held back by its perceived difficulty
>
> Just a brief comment about this in passing, as this is an antique debate
> point ages ago stomped into the ground on comp.os.*.advocacy and other
> places: An operating system one must install (not pre
Rick Moen wrote:
>> I agree. The more GNU/Linux blows off prospective users by making them
>> jump through hoops, the more Linux becomes a niche. The nichier Linux
>> becomes, the more the hardware manufacturers ignore it. Let GNU/Linux
>> get up to 25% on the desktop, and the manufacturers will
g4sra wrote:
>> How is the Linux server going to authenticate users, via /etc/passwd or
>> other ?
>>
>> A lot depends on this, also the number of users will have a factor as
>> well.
> Which network authentication method would you suggest ?
I think what Roland was getting at here is the numbe
Rick Moen wrote:
> I heartily second your thanks to the mailing list administration team.
+1
Having run mail & list servers I've seen the problems caused by the big outfits
who are happy to just declare "oh that's no longer valid - we don't care about
breaking it". And I reckon I managed a bet
Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:
> Hm ... on devuan mailinglist asking for trainingroom setup for 600 active
> user? I don't think server nor clients are M$-based, but I could be wrong
> here :-)
Windoze isn't the only GUI desktop around ;-)
___
Dng mailin
Bruce Ferrell wrote:
> I've found that AD is VERY sensitive to time differences, even in a pure
> windows environment. How Windows admins tolerate it I have yet to figure out.
AIUI the DEFAULT in a Windoze network is that all the Domain Controllers are
also time servers (not NTP, MS's own cre
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