[DNG] About using an independent process supervisor

2017-11-17 Thread Steve Litt
Hi all, Although all "init systems" are different, a typical "init system" functions as the first and only program called by the kernel, it spawns both one-time and respawned processes, and it facilitates shutdown: Typically with a shutdown shellscript. The part that remains PID1 after the system

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread Steve Litt
On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 15:49:51 + KatolaZ wrote: > On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 03:39:45PM +, Rowland Penny wrote: > > On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:34:31 +0100 > > John Hughes wrote: > > > > > On 17/11/17 16:14, Rowland Penny wrote: > > > > On Fri, 17

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread Steve Litt
On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 08:42:51 -0500 "Ismael L. Donis Garcia" wrote: > Excuse me if I say something not suitable, since my knowledge is very > scarce. > > But I understand that the new versions of openrc already bring the > possibility of functioning as an init system

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread Steve Litt
On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 09:14:38 + KatolaZ wrote: > On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:12:51PM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote: > > [cut] > > > > > I do think that it is wise to replace SysVinit at some point or at > > least provide an alternative. I even agree with tech-ctte

Re: [DNG] upgrading from jessie to ascii

2017-11-17 Thread Olaf Meeuwissen
Hi Nelson, Nelson H. F. Beebe writes: > I installed Devuan about 4 months ago in our test lab, which now > houses about 180 flavors of Unix-(like) systems. The starting point > was the devuan_jessie_1.0.0_amd64_DVD.iso file. > > After reading DNG list traffic for several weeks, and seeing

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread Didier Kryn
Le 17/11/2017 à 23:13, Joel Roth a écrit : On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 10:37:05PM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote: But Linus stated explicitely in the past that applications shouldn't access sysfs directly and sysfs wasn't to be considered stable. Rob Landley (author of mdev) has made a lot of

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread Joel Roth
On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 10:37:05PM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote: > But Linus stated explicitely in the past that applications shouldn't > access sysfs directly and sysfs wasn't to be considered stable. Rob Landley > (author of mdev) has made a lot of requests about sysfs documentation to Kay >

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread Didier Kryn
Le 17/11/2017 à 17:37, Arnt Gulbrandsen a écrit : John Hughes writes: The lkml.org archive contains a broken link. How odd. There's another message from Linus with the same subject: https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/10/26/524 That one's to the point... Linus may/will not react to conspiracy

[DNG] openrc init: Was Re: Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread Svante Signell
On Fri, 2017-11-17 at 08:42 -0500, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote: > But I understand that the new versions of openrc already bring the  > possibility of functioning as an init system independently. > > In that case, openrc could not be used as an alternative init? Yes, openrc is now able to be

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread Arnt Gulbrandsen
John Hughes writes: The lkml.org archive contains a broken link. How odd. There's another message from Linus with the same subject: https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/10/26/524 That one's to the point... Linus may/will not react to conspiracy theories about possible future commits, but it there's

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread John Hughes
On 17/11/17 17:04, John Hughes wrote: On 17/11/17 16:38, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: Didier Kryn writes:     That's why a bunch of people have endeavoured replacing systemd-udev by mdev or mdevd, something much simpler to configure and not locked-in. The only issue now is that sysfs is unstable

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread golinux
On 2017-11-17 10:04, John Hughes wrote: On 17/11/17 16:38, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: Didier Kryn writes:     That's why a bunch of people have endeavoured replacing systemd-udev by mdev or mdevd, something much simpler to configure and not locked-in. The only issue now is that sysfs is unstable

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread Rowland Penny
On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 15:49:51 + KatolaZ wrote: > On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 03:39:45PM +, Rowland Penny wrote: > > On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:34:31 +0100 > > John Hughes wrote: > > > > > On 17/11/17 16:14, Rowland Penny wrote: > > > > On Fri, 17 Nov

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread John Hughes
On 17/11/17 16:38, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: Didier Kryn writes:     That's why a bunch of people have endeavoured replacing systemd-udev by mdev or mdevd, something much simpler to configure and not locked-in. The only issue now is that sysfs is unstable on purpose to force libudev on people

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread Ismael L. Donis Garcia
- Original Message - From: "KatolaZ" To: Sent: Friday, November 17, 2017 4:14 AM Subject: Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package We agree on the necessity of providing (optional) alternatives to sysvinit. But this cannot mean

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread KatolaZ
On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 03:39:45PM +, Rowland Penny wrote: > On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:34:31 +0100 > John Hughes wrote: > > > On 17/11/17 16:14, Rowland Penny wrote: > > > On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 15:54:39 +0100 > > > John Hughes wrote: > > > > > >> systemd,

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread Rowland Penny
On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 16:34:31 +0100 John Hughes wrote: > On 17/11/17 16:14, Rowland Penny wrote: > > On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 15:54:39 +0100 > > John Hughes wrote: > > > >> systemd, like init(1), doesn't just run on boot -- it's running > >> continuously. > >>

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread Arnt Gulbrandsen
Didier Kryn writes: That's why a bunch of people have endeavoured replacing systemd-udev by mdev or mdevd, something much simpler to configure and not locked-in. The only issue now is that sysfs is unstable on purpose to force libudev on people (sysfs is developped by the same persons

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread John Hughes
On 17/11/17 16:14, Rowland Penny wrote: On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 15:54:39 +0100 John Hughes wrote: systemd, like init(1), doesn't just run on boot -- it's running continuously. Excuse me apologist troll, but that is the whole point, it shouldn't have to. It doesn't?  You

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread Adam Borowski
On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 03:14:26PM +, Rowland Penny wrote: > > Also don't forget that you're counting udev into the size of systemd. > > That was their decision (and another bad one at that) And it has far-reaching results: in a modular design, it's easy to replace individual components. --

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread Didier Kryn
Le 17/11/2017 à 15:54, John Hughes a écrit : On 17/11/17 15:48, Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote: Thus, systemd represents a code base of about 455,000 to 833,000 lines spread over 2201 files. The main problem that systemd tries to solve is correct ordering of startup script execution, a job that is

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread Rowland Penny
On Fri, 17 Nov 2017 15:54:39 +0100 John Hughes wrote: > On 17/11/17 15:48, Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote: > > Thus, systemd represents a code base of about 455,000 to 833,000 > > lines spread over 2201 files. > > > > The main problem that systemd tries to solve is correct ordering

[DNG] upgrading from jessie to ascii

2017-11-17 Thread Nelson H. F. Beebe
I installed Devuan about 4 months ago in our test lab, which now houses about 180 flavors of Unix-(like) systems. The starting point was the devuan_jessie_1.0.0_amd64_DVD.iso file. After reading DNG list traffic for several weeks, and seeing frequent mention of the ascii release, I followed

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread John Hughes
On 17/11/17 15:48, Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote: Thus, systemd represents a code base of about 455,000 to 833,000 lines spread over 2201 files. The main problem that systemd tries to solve is correct ordering of startup script execution, a job that is done only at boot time. systemd, like

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread Nelson H. F. Beebe
"Ismael L. Donis Garcia" asks on Fri, 17 Nov 2017 08:42:51 -0500: >> But I understand that the new versions of openrc already bring the >> possibility of functioning as an init system independently. >> >> In that case, openrc could not be used as an alternative init? The

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread Ismael L. Donis Garcia
- Original Message - From: "Martin Steigerwald" To: Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2017 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package Hello Steve. Thank you! I totally get the frustration behind emotions like the

Re: [DNG] Please provide systemd-free libreswan package

2017-11-17 Thread KatolaZ
On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 10:12:51PM +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote: [cut] > > I do think that it is wise to replace SysVinit at some point or at least > provide an alternative. I even agree with tech-ctte decision regarding > replacing SysVinit, that is not the point. Systemd addressed a