Re: [libreoffice-documentation] [VOTE] On changes to documentation workflow.

[DaveB]

Hi Felipe,

The option is not going to go away, because it is now an included
feature of the LibreOffice NextCloud instance. The only reason for this
thread is to determine if the Docs Team wish to use the feature or not.
Once we have reached consensus on that point I will make the appropriate
changes to the Contributors Guide chapters and relevant wiki pages.

Best Regards
Dave

On 15/10/2020 13:01, Felipe Viggiano wrote:
> Hello Dave,
> 
> Thanks for the information. It was very clarifying!
> It sounds like a good feature, and I agree it is very conflicting with our
> current workflow for the revision of the guides.
> 
> Perhaps we can leave this option on the table for other assignments for the
> Doc Team that may arise.
> 
> Best regards,
> Felipe Viggiano
> 
> Em qua., 14 de out. de 2020 às 17:08, DaveB 
> escreveu:
> 
>> Hi Felipe,
>>
>> It shows good judgment to to keep an open mind. I gave my initial
>> assessment in my post:
>>
>> https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/2020/msg01984.html
>>
>> The Nextcloud versioning system is an excellent mechanism to use under
>> the circumstances for which it was designed. Let's say you and I are
>> cooperatively working on a document inside LOOL via our web browsers
>> (Not downloading, editing and uploading), then every time one of us uses
>> the LOOL "Save" option that saved edition is versioned and either one of
>> us can go back and recall/recover any one of the previous versions. In
>> my limited testing I found issues as to what we would do with the
>> recalled/recovered versions. The mechanism is very safe, but demands
>> absolute and total compliance to a working regime with no deviation
>> permitted, otherwise we could finish up in a confused mess.
>>
>> Through circumstances beyond our control, the Docs Team were obliged to
>> move our workspace arrangements from the "ODF Authors" Plone instance to
>> a LibreOffice NextCloud instance. In so doing we tried, as far as
>> possible, to retain the same or a similar reliable workflow where
>> contributors retracted (downloaded), edited and returned (uploaded)
>> edited/reviewed documents to our workspace. To continue with this
>> workflow and to adopt the Nextcloud versioning system, would mean that
>> the filename given by the first editor/author must never be changed for
>> any reason or under any circumstances (no extra or missing dots, dashes,
>> underscores, etc.), otherwise the Nextcloud versioning system fails and
>> becomes a hindrance, not an advantage to us.
>>
>> As I have said previously, I am *NOT* opposed to the very good Nextcloud
>> versioning system, but it is a solution to a problem we currently do not
>> have.
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> On 14/10/2020 13:57, Felipe Viggiano wrote:
>>> Since I'm not familiar with the Nextcloud versioning system, I'm going
>> with
>>> option #1 as well.
>>>
>>> But I would like to keep an open mind about this for the future. Has
>> anyone
>>> tested this feature?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Felipe Viggiano
>>>
>>> Em qua, 14 de out de 2020 09:25, Samantha Hamilton <
>>> samanthahamilton0...@gmail.com> escreveu:
>>>
>>>> Option 1 looks great!
>>>>
>>>> Sam.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 5:55 AM Steve (GMail) <
>> stevemfanning...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Option 1 for me.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm unconvinced of the need for a versioning system.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>>> From: "DaveB" 
>>>>> To: "LibreOffice Documentation" 
>>>>> Sent: 13/10/2020 18:08:37
>>>>> Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] [VOTE] On changes to documentation
>>>>> workflow.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Other than Peter Schofield nobody else has expressed any thoughts or
>>>>>> opinions as whether or not we should adopt the NextCloud versioning
>>>>>> system, or should we continue with the proposed folder structure and
>>>>>> file naming format, so I propose a poll:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Option 1.
>>>>>> Go ahead with the s

Re: [libreoffice-documentation] [VOTE] On changes to documentation workflow.

[DaveB]

Hi Felipe,

It shows good judgment to to keep an open mind. I gave my initial
assessment in my post:
https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/2020/msg01984.html

The Nextcloud versioning system is an excellent mechanism to use under
the circumstances for which it was designed. Let's say you and I are
cooperatively working on a document inside LOOL via our web browsers
(Not downloading, editing and uploading), then every time one of us uses
the LOOL "Save" option that saved edition is versioned and either one of
us can go back and recall/recover any one of the previous versions. In
my limited testing I found issues as to what we would do with the
recalled/recovered versions. The mechanism is very safe, but demands
absolute and total compliance to a working regime with no deviation
permitted, otherwise we could finish up in a confused mess.

Through circumstances beyond our control, the Docs Team were obliged to
move our workspace arrangements from the "ODF Authors" Plone instance to
a LibreOffice NextCloud instance. In so doing we tried, as far as
possible, to retain the same or a similar reliable workflow where
contributors retracted (downloaded), edited and returned (uploaded)
edited/reviewed documents to our workspace. To continue with this
workflow and to adopt the Nextcloud versioning system, would mean that
the filename given by the first editor/author must never be changed for
any reason or under any circumstances (no extra or missing dots, dashes,
underscores, etc.), otherwise the Nextcloud versioning system fails and
becomes a hindrance, not an advantage to us.

As I have said previously, I am *NOT* opposed to the very good Nextcloud
versioning system, but it is a solution to a problem we currently do not
have.

Best Regards
Dave


On 14/10/2020 13:57, Felipe Viggiano wrote:
> Since I'm not familiar with the Nextcloud versioning system, I'm going with
> option #1 as well.
> 
> But I would like to keep an open mind about this for the future. Has anyone
> tested this feature?
> 
> Best regards,
> Felipe Viggiano
> 
> Em qua, 14 de out de 2020 09:25, Samantha Hamilton <
> samanthahamilton0...@gmail.com> escreveu:
> 
>> Option 1 looks great!
>>
>> Sam.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 5:55 AM Steve (GMail) 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Option 1 for me.
>>>
>>> I'm unconvinced of the need for a versioning system.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "DaveB" 
>>> To: "LibreOffice Documentation" 
>>> Sent: 13/10/2020 18:08:37
>>> Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] [VOTE] On changes to documentation
>>> workflow.
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Other than Peter Schofield nobody else has expressed any thoughts or
>>>> opinions as whether or not we should adopt the NextCloud versioning
>>>> system, or should we continue with the proposed folder structure and
>>>> file naming format, so I propose a poll:
>>>>
>>>> Option 1.
>>>> Go ahead with the simplified folder structure and file naming format,
>>>>
>>>> or
>>>>
>>>> Option 2.
>>>> Adopt the NextCloud versioning system.
>>>>
>>>> I propose closing the vote at 17:00 UTC on Friday 16th. October 2020.
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> --
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] [VOTE] On changes to documentation workflow.

[DaveB]

On 13/10/2020 18:08, DaveB wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Other than Peter Schofield nobody else has expressed any thoughts or
> opinions as whether or not we should adopt the NextCloud versioning
> system, or should we continue with the proposed folder structure and
> file naming format, so I propose a poll:
> 
> Option 1.
> Go ahead with the simplified folder structure and file naming format,
> 
> or
> 
> Option 2.
> Adopt the NextCloud versioning system.
> 
> I propose closing the vote at 17:00 UTC on Friday 16th. October 2020.
> 
> Best Regards
> Dave

My vote: Option 1.

Rational:
The NextCloud versioning system is a solution to a problem we don't
really have.

Regards
Dave




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[libreoffice-documentation] [VOTE] On changes to documentation workflow.

[DaveB]

Hi All,

Other than Peter Schofield nobody else has expressed any thoughts or
opinions as whether or not we should adopt the NextCloud versioning
system, or should we continue with the proposed folder structure and
file naming format, so I propose a poll:

Option 1.
Go ahead with the simplified folder structure and file naming format,

or

Option 2.
Adopt the NextCloud versioning system.

I propose closing the vote at 17:00 UTC on Friday 16th. October 2020.

Best Regards
Dave

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] CG7000 and CG7001 - Final review

[DaveB]

If the document's final edit has been done and is ready for publishing I
would suggest it is placed in the "Published" folder. This seems to be a
better option than having questionably named folders scattered around
NextCloud. The folder name is only a label, placing a document there
does not actually publish or do anything else with the file. Feeding all
the fully reviewed chapter documents into the "Published" folder allows
the book's Coordinator/Publisher to use that folder for assembling them
into the the final publication. S/He will already know when the guide is
ready for publication.

Keep in mind that some native language teams might want to start work on
translations of the English chapters as they are completed, rather than
have to wait until they are actually published on the wiki and website.
Finding new documents in the "Published" folder is a clear indication
that the chapter is ready for translation.

BTW Thanks to all of you for your work editing and reviewing the
chapters for is guide.

Best Regards
Dave

On 12/10/2020 15:16, Felipe Viggiano wrote:
> Hello Kees,
> 
> About the folder, I agree with you, it could look better in another place,
> I would suggest inside the Draft folder rather than one level up.
> Actually, for me, it doesn't really matter where the folder is, since, as
> far as I understood, it is a temporary storage place for pre-published
> files, but I can move it if this is for the best, not a problem.
> 
> About the workflow, we are in the final steps for the Calc 7.0 Guide
> reviewing, so I would like to suggest to keep the previous workflow and
> adopt the new one on the upcoming 7.1 Calc Guide.
> I believe we will spend some precious time moving and renaming every file
> when we could use it to finish the book instead.
> 
> Those are my opinion on the subjects, perhaps we can discuss a little
> further, and get to a final decision about them.
> 
> Best regards,
> Felipe Viggiano
> 
> Em seg., 12 de out. de 2020 às 03:28,  escreveu:
> 
>> Fuether more I can not find a folder "Reviewed File Prior To
>> Publication" in the "Proposal for a change to the Nextcloud workflow"
>>
>> kees...@libreoffice.org schreef op 12.10.2020 06:46:
>>> Felipe Viggiano schreef op 12.10.2020 03:10:
 Hello everyone,

 Just did a final review on the CG700 - Preface, and CG-7001 -
 Introduction.

 I see that there is a "Reviewed File Prior to Publication" folder
 inside
 Archive, I just uploaded these two chapters there.
>>>
>>> Should this folder be insite Archive, or one level up?
>>>
>>> Kees

 The status spreadsheet has been updated.

 Best regards,
 Felipe Viggiano



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] LOOL Question

[DaveB]

Hi Felipe,

Yes, thank you.  I was using the menu rather than the toolbar. I think
it did not work for me, because I was trying to paste (Ctrl+V) the
comment into dialog instead of typing it in.

Note to self: Don't be lazy :).

Best Regards
Dave

On 10/10/2020 17:16, Felipe Viggiano wrote:
> Hello Dave,
> 
> I managed to do this with the *Insert Comment* button on the toolbar (just
> below the textbox with the name of the file).
> 
> After inserting the comment, just go with the mouse over the cell and it
> will show.
> 
> Is that what you were looking for?
> 
> Best regards,
> Felipe Viggiano
> 
> Em sáb., 10 de out. de 2020 às 12:45, DaveB 
> escreveu:
> 
>> There is an option to insert a comment into a cell in LOOL Calc. Maybe I
>> am missing something, but is there any way to make an inserted comment
>> visible. I am looking at this as an idea for our status spreadsheets.
>>
>> Thanks & Regards
>> Dave



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[libreoffice-documentation] LOOL Question

[DaveB]

There is an option to insert a comment into a cell in LOOL Calc. Maybe I
am missing something, but is there any way to make an inserted comment
visible. I am looking at this as an idea for our status spreadsheets.

Thanks & Regards
Dave


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[libreoffice-documentation] GS7001-IntroducingLO 1st review.

[DaveB]

I have taken GS7001-IntroducingLO for 1st review.Expected return date 
2020-10-14RegardsDave
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started Guide 7.0

[DaveB]

On 10/10/2020 07:44, Jean Weber wrote:
> I have updated seven chapters of the Getting Started Guide to 7.0 and
> uploaded them to NextCloud. I have updated the status spreadsheet for
> the book. All chapters have the v7 template applied. I found very few
> changes to be necessary in the text, so I have used Track Changes to
> show what I did. Updated/replaced images are not marked.
> 
> I have not been following closely the discussions on the list about
> file naming and image anchoring and other matters, so I have probably
> not done some things correctly. Please feel free to change as needed.
> 
> I have taken Ch4 (Writer) for updating. I think Peter Schofield plans
> to do the chapters on Impress and Draw. Will someone from the Calc or
> Base Guide teams do those chapters?
> 
> Do you want me to be the coordinator for this book? Or has someone
> already claimed it?
> 
> Jean

Hello Jean,

Thanks for doing this. I was about to start work on the update, but you
are quicker than I can ever be, so I will start reviewing your updates
instead. Obviously, others are always welcome to join in the reviewing
process.

Sorry about the duplicated status sheet you encountered, I had been
using that as an example in a discussion about an option to use
NextCloud's versioning feature. I have now deleted the unneeded duplicate.

The file naming and NextCloud workflow are somewhat in flux at the
moment, hopefully the team can quickly reach consensus on these points.
As far as I know there has been no change in image anchoring, where the
inserted image is anchored to paragraph and the caption frame is
anchored as character.

I see that Peter has already answered you about the Impress and Draw
guides. Felipe Viggiano stepped up to take over the Calc Guide
coordination from Steve Fanning.

I had been kind of "conscripted" into coordinating the GS Guide, but I
would be happy pass that over to you if you were willing to take it on.
At the moment I am more interested in getting the NextCloud workflow
agreed, then to update the Contributor Guide book and wiki pages.

Best Regards
Dave

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for a change to the NextCloud workflow

[DaveB]

On 09/10/2020 02:08, Olivier Hallot wrote:
> Hi Dave, All
> 
> Em 11/09/2020 11:18, DaveB escreveu:
>> For the benefit of those who were not part of yesterday's team meeting,
>> or haven't yet read the minutes. I put forward a proposal as per the
>> subject line of this post.
>>
>> A copy of my proposal is available from:
>> https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/9FqwWK3m6Cy2zHQ
>> The proposal has 5 points together with my rational for the changes.
>>
>> If there are no reasonable objections, I propose to start updating our
>> NextCloud instance on Friday, 18th. September.
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Dave
>>
> I'm bringing a new element to the discussion, related to Version control.
> 
> Our infra team added a Version Control plugin to NextCloud.
> 
> Each file in Nextcloud is version controlled, including our Guides and
> guides components.
> 
> Details on the way to use it are in this link:
> 
> https://docs.nextcloud.com/server/stable/user_manual/files/version_control.html?highlight=version%20control
> 
> I think it can be considered in the proposed workflow changes
> 
> Kind regards

Hi Olivier, All

Yes we definitely could make use of the versioning system, but there
might be some unforeseen side issues.

Based on my couple of very rudimentary tests, it appears that the names
of the edited/revised and existing files must be 100% identical.
For example:
The *content* of the (fictitious) "GS7001-DB.odt" and "GS7001_DB.odt"
files could be identical, but the NextCloud versioning system would
identify them by the small filename difference as totally separate and
unrelated, so no version control would be applied.
Now if I download "GS7001-DB.odt" edit it and upload without changing
the file name the NextCloud versioning system works as expected.
Although NextCloud will challenge me about an existing file with and
identical name, every time I upload.

See the identical versioned and non-versioned test spreadsheets here:
https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/apps/files/?dir=/LibreOffice%20Documentation/English/Getting%20Started%20Guide/7.0=329928

I am happy to work with the version control system, but it might add a
little extra work for those who, like me, have a local naming procedure
for files on their own system.

There is a possibility confusion arising when it is forgotten that
previous and current filenames must be 100% identical.

I would like to hear the views of other contributors before I move any
further forward on the workflow changes.

Best Regards
Dave

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] NextCloud - can we change?

[DaveB]

On 04/10/2020 09:25, Peter Schofield wrote:
> Is there a better alternative to NextCloud for LibreOffice to use?
> 
> I find NextCloud very slow and it is definitely NOT my computer system.
> 
> I get numerous error messages stating that NextCloud could not perform an 
> action, yet NextCloud has. For example, moved two files and NextCloud 
> complained it could not move the files. However, the files had been moved 
> when I swopped to the target directory.
> 
> Regards
> Peter Schofield
> psaut...@gmail.com

Hi Peter,

I am currently logged into NextCloud and I am not experiencing any speed
issues when accessing or traversing directories.

I have always found moving files between directories takes much longer
than I would expect, but I just put that down to performing file
management via a web browser. I did try moving 5 files and got the same
error message as you for 1 file and then found the file had actually
been moved. I have often encountered this same issue when moving more
than 1 file at a time.

Maybe we should ask Infra to check and see if there is a fix for this.

Regards
Dave



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Why is the first page always loaded?

[DaveB]

*From:* thernilias-nordwa...@web.de
*Sent:* Saturday, October 3, 2020, 15:40 UTC
*To:* documentation@global.libreoffice.org
*Subject:* [libreoffice-documentation] Why is the first page always loaded?

> If there is the option to get rid of this, THAT WOULD BE GOOD! I do not want 
> the first page of a file loaded, I want to be the exakt line I have last 
> worked on! Have you never thought about that? It is extremely annoying to 
> have a very many pages document, where always tha FIRST PAGE is loaded, and 
> not the line where were worked on last. It means searching this line every 
> time the document is loaded. Who thought that this is good? Please fix it as 
> soon as possible, because I think, if you want to develope a good writing 
> programm, where THIS IS NOT PART OF IT, that is a shame. I know you do this 
> mostly for free, but this is a standard part of a program like this. This is 
> one of the first scripts to put in. Again, I know, you do this for free, 
> mostly, but it was your decision to do so. You were not forced to.
> If there is the option, then well, it is hided very well.
> Was wirklich getan wurdehttps://waswirklichgetanwurde.blogspot.com
Even though Robert Großkopf has been kind enough to answer your
question, please note for future reference that user support is
available by posting to us...@global.libreoffice.org or by visiting
https://ask.libreoffice.org/en/questions/

Although the feature is not obvious (not the fault of the documentation)
it is explained in the in-built help file under the heading "User Data".
See: https://tinyurl.com/yxqoee4m which reads:
"User data is also used when commenting and in tracking changes mode, to
identify comments/edits author; and *to mark last edit position in
document, so that when author opens the document later, it opens at the
last edit position.*"

Regards





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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Documentation on the Templates and Extensions Sites?

[DaveB]

On 30/09/2020 15:59, LibreOfficiant wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I fully support Jean-François statement regarding documentation location:
> 
> - The extensions site is *not* the right place for LibreOffice documentation
> content

If the Extensions site were the only location offering the documentation
I would have to agree with you & Jean-François.

However, we do and always will have:
* Documentation on the website:
  https://documentation.libreoffice.org/en/english-documentation/
  Plus other languages.
* Documentation on the wiki:
  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications
  Plus other languages.

At the moment the Extensions website is just option being explored for
development as another possible avenue to make our documentation more
wisely available. What you currently see there is work in progress.
There is no plan or intention that the Extensions website will ever
become the exclusive source for our documentation.

Best Regards
Dave



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Wish to join the Documentation Team

[DaveB]

Hi Rafael,

It's good that you can attend meetings, I look forward to speaking with you.

In most instances we communicate openly on the documentation list, but I
guess Olivier felt it more appropriate to tell you privately about a
meeting for
 Brazilian contributors.

Obviously you can subscribe from any address you choose. I am not aware
of any restrictions on Gmail accounts subscribing to the docs list. I
notice that your email client is Thunderbird on Linux, so you might wish
to log into the Gmail webmail interface and check your Junk folder. I am
always amazed how many genuine emails Google marks with a false positive
flag and sucks them into the junk folder.

I am sure you will do a great job updating the Math Guide for 7.0, it
definitely could use a bit of TLC from someone who actually understands
the subject. The guy who did the 6.4 update was a bit out of his depth.
I know my comments will not upset him, because that guy was me. :))

Best Regards
Dave

 Original Message 
From: Rafael Lima [mailto:coenp...@utfpr.edu.br]
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020, 18:41 UTC
To: DaveB
Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Wish to join the Documentation Team

> Hi Dave!
> 
> Thanks for your reply. I am looking forward to start contributing to
> LibreOffice documentation.
> 
> I think I'll be able to attend most of the 18:00 UTC meetings. I have
> already scheduled the Oct 8th meeting in my calendar.
> 
> Olivier had mentioned a different time for meetings, on Wednesdays at
> 21pm (Brazil's time). But I think it is a different meeting for
> Brazilian contributors.
> 
> I am also speaking with Olivier about how I can get started with the
> documentation. I will also check out all the steps he sent me in his
> first email.
> 
> As for my subscription to the mailing list, I originally tried to
> subscribe using my Gmail (rafael.palma.l...@gmail.com), but I have not
> received any reply in my Gmail yet.
> 
> Is it possible to change the e-mail with which I'll participate in the
> mailing list to the gmail I mentioned above?
> 
> Many thanks!
> 
> Rafael Lima
> 
> 
> On 28/09/2020 13:34, DaveB wrote:
>>  Original Message 
>> From: Rafael Lima [mailto:coenp...@utfpr.edu.br]
>> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020, 14:44 UTC
>> To:documentation@global.libreoffice.org
>> Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Wish to join the Documentation Team
>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> My name is Rafael Lima and I use LibreOffice every day to prepare
>>> lectures and also to write scientific papers.
>>>
>>> I read on the following post that the Documentation Team is looking for
>>> a volunteer to review / update the Math Guide for LO 7.0.
>>>
>>> https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2020/09/24/documentation-team-status/
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe I can contribute by doing this task. How can I begin?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Rafael Lima
>> Hi Rafael,
>>
>> Welcome aboard.
>>
>> Just to add a couple of points to Olivier's welcome message.
>> There has been a recent changes agreed for the  NextCloud workflow and
>> file/folder naming and I am in the process of updating the Documentation
>> Contributors’ Guide, both the on-line and downloadable editions, so you
>> might see confusing information until I have completed the update.
>> Hopefully this will not take too long, but if you want any clarification
>> please post to the list and I (or others) will be happy to help.
>>
>> Olivier mentioned to you that we have bi-weekly on-line meeting via the
>> Jitsi service. You can find the meeting dates here:
>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Meetings
>> Not sure how the 18:00 UTC time fits in with your schedule, but it would
>> be great if you get the opportunity to join the meeting.
>>
>> Sorry for cc'ing you, but I don't know if you are subscribed to the
>> list yet
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Dave
>>
> 



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Wish to join the Documentation Team

[DaveB]

 Original Message 
From: Rafael Lima [mailto:coenp...@utfpr.edu.br]
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020, 14:44 UTC
To: documentation@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Wish to join the Documentation Team

> Hi!
> 
> My name is Rafael Lima and I use LibreOffice every day to prepare
> lectures and also to write scientific papers.
> 
> I read on the following post that the Documentation Team is looking for
> a volunteer to review / update the Math Guide for LO 7.0.
> 
> https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2020/09/24/documentation-team-status/
> 
> I believe I can contribute by doing this task. How can I begin?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Rafael Lima

Hi Rafael,

Welcome aboard.

Just to add a couple of points to Olivier's welcome message.
There has been a recent changes agreed for the  NextCloud workflow and
file/folder naming and I am in the process of updating the Documentation
Contributors’ Guide, both the on-line and downloadable editions, so you
might see confusing information until I have completed the update.
Hopefully this will not take too long, but if you want any clarification
please post to the list and I (or others) will be happy to help.

Olivier mentioned to you that we have bi-weekly on-line meeting via the
Jitsi service. You can find the meeting dates here:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Meetings
Not sure how the 18:00 UTC time fits in with your schedule, but it would
be great if you get the opportunity to join the meeting.

Sorry for cc'ing you, but I don't know if you are subscribed to the list yet

Best Regards
Dave


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for filename change of guide chapters

[DaveB]

Hi Peter,

I am a "simple" lad, so a "simple" two digit version numbering works for
me. Doubt that we will ever reach version 10, but...

Maybe it works for Randolph too.

Best Regards
Dave

 Original Message 
From: Peter Schofield [mailto:psaut...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020, 12:48 UTC
To: DaveB
Cc: LibreOffice
Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for filename change of
guide chapters

> Hello Dave
> 
> You definitely have my approval to include my proposal in the Contributors 
> Guide, that is if it gets approval.
> 
> The reason why I have used two digit for the version number is to allow for 
> sorting in computer systems. You cannot relay on the the creation or modify 
> dates for sorting because we do not know how volunteers’ computers are setup.
> 
> Regard
> Peter Schofield
> psaut...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 25 Sep 2020, at 13:08, DaveB  wrote:
>>
>> On 25/09/2020 08:24, Peter Schofield wrote:
>>> Hello Everyone
>>>
>>> I would like to propose a filename change that would better fit the 
>>> proposed change in folder structure by DaveB, that is Work in Progress, 
>>> Archive and Published. This change I do agree with as the present folders 
>>> in NextCloud are not that clear as to what purpose they serve.
>>>
>>> First draft of chapter.
>>> So that a history of development is created, I think that the filename 
>>> should include a version number with the initials of the creator. For 
>>> example IG7006-FormattingGraphicObjects-01-PS.odt. This file would be 
>>> placed in the Work in Progress folder.
>>> After first  review the filename changes to include the reviewer’s 
>>> initials, for example IG7006-FormattingGraphicObjects-01-PS-DB.odt. This 
>>> file would be placed in the Work in Progress folder.
>>>
>>> Second draft of chapter
>>> Any changes from the reviewer are carried out normally by the creator and 
>>> the filename is changed to IG7006-FormattingGraphicObjects-02-PS.odt. This 
>>> file would be placed in the Work in Progress folder.
>>> After second review the filename changes to include the reviewer’s 
>>> initials, for example IG7006-FormattingGraphicObjects-02-PS-DB.odt. This 
>>> file would be placed in the Work in Progress folder.
>>> Files from the first draft of the chapter, that is 01, are place in the 
>>> Archive folder.
>>>
>>> Published chapter
>>> The filename is changed to IG7006-FormattingGraphicObjects.odt and is place 
>>> in the Published folder.
>>> Files from the second draft of the chapter, that is 01, are place in the 
>>> Archive folder.
>>> The Archive folder would then contain a history of the development of a 
>>> chapter and referred to enough necessary.
>>>
>>> I realise that this would mean a change to the Contributors' Guide, Also, 
>>> contributors must strictly follow the regime of file naming.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Peter Schofield
>>> psaut...@gmail.com
>>
>> +1 from me.
>>
>> I have to update the Contributors' Guide for the change in the NextCloud
>> folder structure and if Peter's proposal is accepted I can (with Peter's
>> approval) include this as part of that update.
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Dave


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for filename change of guide chapters

[DaveB]

On 25/09/2020 08:24, Peter Schofield wrote:
> Hello Everyone
> 
> I would like to propose a filename change that would better fit the proposed 
> change in folder structure by DaveB, that is Work in Progress, Archive and 
> Published. This change I do agree with as the present folders in NextCloud 
> are not that clear as to what purpose they serve.
> 
> First draft of chapter.
> So that a history of development is created, I think that the filename should 
> include a version number with the initials of the creator. For example 
> IG7006-FormattingGraphicObjects-01-PS.odt. This file would be placed in the 
> Work in Progress folder.
> After first  review the filename changes to include the reviewer’s initials, 
> for example IG7006-FormattingGraphicObjects-01-PS-DB.odt. This file would be 
> placed in the Work in Progress folder.
> 
> Second draft of chapter
> Any changes from the reviewer are carried out normally by the creator and the 
> filename is changed to IG7006-FormattingGraphicObjects-02-PS.odt. This file 
> would be placed in the Work in Progress folder.
> After second review the filename changes to include the reviewer’s initials, 
> for example IG7006-FormattingGraphicObjects-02-PS-DB.odt. This file would be 
> placed in the Work in Progress folder.
> Files from the first draft of the chapter, that is 01, are place in the 
> Archive folder.
> 
> Published chapter
> The filename is changed to IG7006-FormattingGraphicObjects.odt and is place 
> in the Published folder.
> Files from the second draft of the chapter, that is 01, are place in the 
> Archive folder.
> The Archive folder would then contain a history of the development of a 
> chapter and referred to enough necessary.
> 
> I realise that this would mean a change to the Contributors' Guide, Also, 
> contributors must strictly follow the regime of file naming.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Peter Schofield
> psaut...@gmail.com

+1 from me.

I have to update the Contributors' Guide for the change in the NextCloud
folder structure and if Peter's proposal is accepted I can (with Peter's
approval) include this as part of that update.

Best Regards
Dave


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started Guide 7.0

[DaveB]

Hi Martin,

Thanks for pointing that out. I realised the same thing about 10 seconds
after I posted.

Regards
Dave

On 25/09/2020 09:24, Martin Srebotnjak wrote:
> Hi, Dave,
> 
> the GS exists for LO6.4, so all you need is to gather all the new stuff
> that landed in LO 7.0 - which should be in the LO70 release notes on wiki.
> 
> Lp, m.
> 
> V V čet., 24. sep. 2020 ob 19:15 je oseba DaveB 
> napisala:
> 
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I have been doing some preparation for the 7.0 edition of this guide, by
>> collecting together the release notes for 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, 6.4 & 7.0 with
>> the intention of creating a wiki page of changes between 6 & 7, similar
>> to: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development/6.0
>>
>> While this is being developed for the Getting Started Guide, it should
>> also be useful for other guides (eg. Writer).
>>
>> There is still quite a bit of work to be done on this, but I will post
>> back here when it is ready.
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Dave




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[libreoffice-documentation] Getting Started Guide 7.0

[DaveB]

Hi All,

I have been doing some preparation for the 7.0 edition of this guide, by
collecting together the release notes for 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, 6.4 & 7.0 with
the intention of creating a wiki page of changes between 6 & 7, similar
to: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development/6.0

While this is being developed for the Getting Started Guide, it should
also be useful for other guides (eg. Writer).

There is still quite a bit of work to be done on this, but I will post
back here when it is ready.

Best Regards
Dave

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[libreoffice-documentation] Documentation on the Templates and Extensions Sites?

[DaveB]

Hi All,

I had previously seen references to this subject in posts to this list,
but never really paid much attention. However, this became much more
relevant in another "Change our practice of linking back to NextCloud"
thread.

It is unclear to me and others why anyone would think to search the
Templates or Extension sites to find user guides. In fact the 30
documentation files only exist on the Extensions site:
https://extensions.libreoffice.org

With the greatest respect to whoever set up
https://extensions.libreoffice.org/?Tags%5B%5D=53
The Extensions site does not lend itself well to an organised, easy to
follow layout.

While I understand and agree with the philosophy of making our
documentation as widely available as possible, the Extensions site
appears to to be a strange choice.

Best Regards
Dave



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Change our practice of linking back to NextCloud

[DaveB]

On 22/09/2020 15:55, Olivier Hallot wrote:
> Hi Dave
> 
> Em 22/09/2020 09:51, DaveB escreveu:
>> Sorry folks, I am back here again with yet another proposal.
>>
>> It is starting to become our practice to link published guides on the
>> website and wiki back to the Published Folder on the Documentation
>> NextCloud instance. In *theory* this should not create any issues and is
>> an extremely easy and convenient (lazy) mechanism for us to use.
> 
> Scattering files in several places increases work on file tracking, IMO.
> 
>>
>> I am currently involved with the on-line training of two people, who
>> have been complaining that links I have given them to website and wiki
>> copies of the documentation don't allow them to DIRECTLY download the
>> required guides, without getting into a "jumping through hoops"
>> work-around to download the required material. I encountered this myself
>> when trying to offer Bernard John Poole some guidance on the mailing
>> list. Namely that clicking the link-back links opens the files in the
>> web browser and a browser right click "Save As" offers a weirdly
>> formatted copy of the NextCloud html file.
> 
> Links to ODF files in stored in TDF Nextcloud triggers the LibreOffice
> Online module and opens LibreOffice Online inside the browser. That
> said, you cannot "save as" the file from the browser menu (it will save
> the URL content which is an html gibberish). You must choose the menu
> File - Download to be able to save the copy of the document in your
> computer with the bonus of selecting the file format.
> 
> Links to PDF files will open the pdfviewer of NextCloud which just add a
> blue header in the page and has a Download button on the right. As far
> as I can see, the PDF file is rendered inside the browser. Likewise, do
> not use the browser "save as", but use the Download button instead.
> 
>>
>> Even though the link-back mechanism is convenient for us, it really
>> doesn't take a great deal of work to upload the published material to
>> the wiki/website, but does make life much easier for our readers.
>>
>> So can we please end this method of linking back to the NextCloud instance.
> 
> I beg to differ, not diminishing your remarks, but the links to
> NextCloud is also a display of the LibreOffice technology and a live
> example of the online features.
> 
> Kind regards

Hi Oliver,

Agreed, it is "*nice*" to showcase LibreOffice technology, but that is
not what our readers who seek to obtain a copies of our documentation
are interested in.

In principle I also oppose "Scattering files in several places", which
is in part why I proposed the simplification of the next cloud directory
structure. However, when we get fist hand negative feedback about
something we do purely for our own convenience, I think it's time review
what is best for our readers. Uploading copies of the documentation
files to the wiki/website has never been a problem or an issue in the
past and there is no clear reason, other than it is useful for our own
convenience, to change that now just because we can.

If we continue this link-back method let us at least see if we can find
some way of informing our readers of the work-around steps to download
copies of our documentation and not some vague entry in a wiki page.
Currently, our links dump them at (to them) an unknown destination and
leaves them to work it out from there. I seriously doubt that our QA/UX
teams would congratulate us for adopting such a policy.

Sorry to be a PITA, but I am pushing these things, because I see them as
being important for the benefit of our readers. That is not to say that
you don't share that same interest, but we hold different views about
how to serve those interests.

Best Regards
Dave

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[libreoffice-documentation] Change our practice of linking back to NextCloud

[DaveB]

Sorry folks, I am back here again with yet another proposal.

It is starting to become our practice to link published guides on the
website and wiki back to the Published Folder on the Documentation
NextCloud instance. In *theory* this should not create any issues and is
an extremely easy and convenient (lazy) mechanism for us to use.

I am currently involved with the on-line training of two people, who
have been complaining that links I have given them to website and wiki
copies of the documentation don't allow them to DIRECTLY download the
required guides, without getting into a "jumping through hoops"
work-around to download the required material. I encountered this myself
when trying to offer Bernard John Poole some guidance on the mailing
list. Namely that clicking the link-back links opens the files in the
web browser and a browser right click "Save As" offers a weirdly
formatted copy of the NextCloud html file.

Even though the link-back mechanism is convenient for us, it really
doesn't take a great deal of work to upload the published material to
the wiki/website, but does make life much easier for our readers.

So can we please end this method of linking back to the NextCloud instance.

Best Regards
Dave

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] CG7013-CalcAsADatabase - First review

[DaveB]

Hi Bernard,

Please be aware of the following:

* All TDF/LO mailing lists operate on very primitive (ASCII Only) ML
software and all HTML content and embedded images are ignored, plus
attachments are removed before being allowed through to the list.

* Many of us use the threading feature of "real" email client software
and replying to previous posts with an unrelated issue breaks this
threading and it is also considered to be very impolite to do this.

* For user support it is best to post (in non-HTML format) to:
us...@global.libreoffice.org

* The in-built/on-line Help facility cannot cover every aspect of the
software. For more detailed information read the Draw Guide, the PDF
edition available from:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/b/b1/DG64-DrawGuide.pdf
That said, even the Draw Guide book cannot cover 100% of every possible
feature of the software.

As a side note. I have just opened LibreOffice Draw version 7.0.1.2 on
Windows 10 and Linux and I am unable to replicate your issue.

As a courtesy, you can send your document (ODF preferred) directly to me
and I will attempt to assist. Alternatively, upload your document to a
file sharing service and post back to this list with a link to your
document so that other subscribers can respond if they wish to do so.

Best Regards
Dave

 Original Message 
From: Poole, Bernard J [mailto:po...@pitt.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2020, 10:28 UTC
To: documentation list
Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] CG7013-CalcAsADatabase - First review

> Greetings, Everyone,
> 
> This is the first time I've written to the documentation team.  I hope you 
> can help me.  I'm working on Lesson 3 of the LO 7.0 version of my 
> "Essentials" tutorials for teachers 
> (http://www.pitt.edu/~poole/libreoffice7frame.htm).
> 
> Attached is a Word doc in which I have dumped captures from screens where I'm 
> trying to round the corners of a rectangle in the LO 7.0 Draw module.  As I 
> hope you can see, I'm following the help offered by the 7.0 Help System and 
> LO 7 does not appear to allow me to use the rounding corners option (the 
> option is inaccessible--greyed out).
> 
> Can any of you help me with this?
> 
> Bernard
> 
> Bernard John Poole, MSIS, PGCE
> Associate Professor Emeritus CS & Education
> University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown
> Johnstown, PA 15904, USA
> e-mail: po...@pitt.edu
> home page: www.pitt.edu/~poole
> 
> �This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for 
> complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple.  The 
> philosophy is kindness.� (The Dalai Lama)
> 
> 
> From: Felipe Viggiano 
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 8:12 PM
> To: LibreOffice Documentation
> Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] CG7013-CalcAsADatabase - First review
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> Just checked out the CH 7013 - Calc as a Database for a first review.
> 
> Expect to return it by Thursday (24Sep2020).
> 
> Best regards,
> Felipe Viggiano



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Can we please finalise the 7.x template?

[DaveB]

Hi Peter,

Sorry, that was me being lazy. When I made the color change to the main
heading I relied on the style hierarchy and forgot the other aspects
(eg. bottom border) needed for some headings.

I have uploaded a fixed edition of the template to:
https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/3yHCCcrMT3Nc83F

Best Regards
Dave

 Original Message 
From: Peter Schofield [mailto:psaut...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2020, 07:50 UTC
To: DaveB
Cc: LibreOffice
Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Can we please finalise the 7.x
template?

> Hello Dave
> 
> Only error I have discovered so far is the border below Heading 1 and 
> Contents Heading. It is black and should be LO Green.
> 
> Regards
> Peter Schofield
> psaut...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 22 Sep 2020, at 09:46, DaveB  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> Thanks for that. As Jean mentioned earlier in this thread, there might
>> still be things discovered that we need to tweak, but I seriously doubt
>> such tweaks will have a major impact on the overall structure of the
>> finally agreed template.
>>
>> If you find or experience any glitches would you be kind enough to note
>> them in a separate post to the list as you encounter them. Then we all
>> have the opportunity to investigate and fix where necessary.
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Dave
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> From: Peter Schofield [mailto:psaut...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2020, 07:04 UTC
>> To: DaveB
>> Cc: LibreOffice
>> Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Can we please finalise the 7.x
>> template?
>>
>>> Hello Dave
>>>
>>> Thank you. I have downloaded your draft template and will give it a test 
>>> run.
>>>
>>> There are still a few glitches, but I do not have enough experience with 
>>> templates to sort them out.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Peter Schofield
>>> psaut...@gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 21 Sep 2020, at 17:18, DaveB  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> In an attempt to move this forward to a conclusion, I have created an
>>>> updated version of Jean's template and uploaded to NextCloud:
>>>> https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/Cqxmk2ySt5ZQ3f2
>>>>
>>>> The only two things I have changed are the heading colors, reverted back
>>>> to the original green and the the removal of the words "Community
>>>> Edition" from the image on the first page.
>>>>
>>>> Jean, Peter and myself have already indicated a preference for the
>>>> heading colors to be reverted back to the original green and the TDF ESC
>>>> have postponed the introduction of LibreOffice "Community Edition".
>>>>
>>>> If there are no qualified objections to this updated template, I propose
>>>> we vote to finalise this template at Thursday's (24th. September) meeting.
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> On 17/09/2020 10:39, Dave Barton wrote:
>>>>> Hi Olivier,
>>>>>
>>>>> I did not in any way suggest we enter into a long protracted discussion
>>>>> about the color of every element of the template. My only recommendation
>>>>> was that we keep the same green heading colors used since the first
>>>>> publication of our 3.4 guides. As Jean said in another post to this
>>>>> thread, she only changed them to black as a compromise to the idea of
>>>>> different color headings for different books.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree that we take Jean's final template as basis for the version 7
>>>>> Guides, with the recommendation that we keep the original heading colors.
>>>>>
>>>>> I completely disagree with your suggestion that authors (however we
>>>>> define them) should be able to choose any color(s) for the book they are
>>>>> working on. Would the team be happy if I make "Fire Engine Red" the
>>>>> color for the next Getting Started guide?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> On 16/09/2020 22:25, Olivier Hallot wrote:
>>>>>> HI Dave
>>>>>> If we keep discussion on the color of the template elements, we will
>>>>>> never set a final decision.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I recommend we take

Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Can we please finalise the 7.x template?

[DaveB]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for that. As Jean mentioned earlier in this thread, there might
still be things discovered that we need to tweak, but I seriously doubt
such tweaks will have a major impact on the overall structure of the
finally agreed template.

If you find or experience any glitches would you be kind enough to note
them in a separate post to the list as you encounter them. Then we all
have the opportunity to investigate and fix where necessary.

Best Regards
Dave

 Original Message 
From: Peter Schofield [mailto:psaut...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2020, 07:04 UTC
To: DaveB
Cc: LibreOffice
Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Can we please finalise the 7.x
template?

> Hello Dave
> 
> Thank you. I have downloaded your draft template and will give it a test run.
> 
> There are still a few glitches, but I do not have enough experience with 
> templates to sort them out.
> 
> Regards
> Peter Schofield
> psaut...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 21 Sep 2020, at 17:18, DaveB  wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> In an attempt to move this forward to a conclusion, I have created an
>> updated version of Jean's template and uploaded to NextCloud:
>> https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/Cqxmk2ySt5ZQ3f2
>>
>> The only two things I have changed are the heading colors, reverted back
>> to the original green and the the removal of the words "Community
>> Edition" from the image on the first page.
>>
>> Jean, Peter and myself have already indicated a preference for the
>> heading colors to be reverted back to the original green and the TDF ESC
>> have postponed the introduction of LibreOffice "Community Edition".
>>
>> If there are no qualified objections to this updated template, I propose
>> we vote to finalise this template at Thursday's (24th. September) meeting.
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Dave
>>
>> On 17/09/2020 10:39, Dave Barton wrote:
>>> Hi Olivier,
>>>
>>> I did not in any way suggest we enter into a long protracted discussion
>>> about the color of every element of the template. My only recommendation
>>> was that we keep the same green heading colors used since the first
>>> publication of our 3.4 guides. As Jean said in another post to this
>>> thread, she only changed them to black as a compromise to the idea of
>>> different color headings for different books.
>>>
>>> I agree that we take Jean's final template as basis for the version 7
>>> Guides, with the recommendation that we keep the original heading colors.
>>>
>>> I completely disagree with your suggestion that authors (however we
>>> define them) should be able to choose any color(s) for the book they are
>>> working on. Would the team be happy if I make "Fire Engine Red" the
>>> color for the next Getting Started guide?
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On 16/09/2020 22:25, Olivier Hallot wrote:
>>>> HI Dave
>>>> If we keep discussion on the color of the template elements, we will
>>>> never set a final decision.
>>>>
>>>> I recommend we take Jean's final template as basis for each Guide. It
>>>> does not prevent authors to choose another color for their book.
>>>> Actually it is trivial to change, as we know.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards
>>>> Olivier
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Em 15/09/2020 12:23, DaveB escreveu:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> The decision on finalising the 7.x has been on the Docs Team meeting
>>>>> agenda for several weeks without any final decision/agreement.
>>>>>
>>>>> I make no secret of the fact that, apart from a couple of minor
>>>>> technical points, I saw no good reason to change from the 6.x template.
>>>>> Nevertheless, Jean has put forward a very good 7.x template proposal and
>>>>> I think we should use this thread to discuss her proposal and come to a
>>>>> final agreement on changes, if any, that should be made to that proposal.
>>>>>
>>>>> My only recommendation for the proposed 7.x template would be to change
>>>>> the black Heading text colours back to the previous #18a303
>>>>> RGB(24,163,3), because the stark B presentation would make the guides
>>>>> appear dull, uninteresting and to some degree unprofessional, when
>>>>> compared to our previous publications.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not a fan of deadlines, but it would be good if we could come to
>>>>> some level of agreement by, or before, the next Docs Team meeting on
>>>>> September 24th.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards
>>>>> Dave

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Can we please finalise the 7.x template?

[DaveB]

Hi All,

In an attempt to move this forward to a conclusion, I have created an
updated version of Jean's template and uploaded to NextCloud:
https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/Cqxmk2ySt5ZQ3f2

The only two things I have changed are the heading colors, reverted back
to the original green and the the removal of the words "Community
Edition" from the image on the first page.

Jean, Peter and myself have already indicated a preference for the
heading colors to be reverted back to the original green and the TDF ESC
have postponed the introduction of LibreOffice "Community Edition".

If there are no qualified objections to this updated template, I propose
we vote to finalise this template at Thursday's (24th. September) meeting.

Best Regards
Dave

On 17/09/2020 10:39, Dave Barton wrote:
> Hi Olivier,
> 
> I did not in any way suggest we enter into a long protracted discussion
> about the color of every element of the template. My only recommendation
> was that we keep the same green heading colors used since the first
> publication of our 3.4 guides. As Jean said in another post to this
> thread, she only changed them to black as a compromise to the idea of
> different color headings for different books.
> 
> I agree that we take Jean's final template as basis for the version 7
> Guides, with the recommendation that we keep the original heading colors.
> 
> I completely disagree with your suggestion that authors (however we
> define them) should be able to choose any color(s) for the book they are
> working on. Would the team be happy if I make "Fire Engine Red" the
> color for the next Getting Started guide?
> 
> Best Regards
> Dave
> 
> On 16/09/2020 22:25, Olivier Hallot wrote:
>> HI Dave
>> If we keep discussion on the color of the template elements, we will
>> never set a final decision.
>>
>> I recommend we take Jean's final template as basis for each Guide. It
>> does not prevent authors to choose another color for their book.
>> Actually it is trivial to change, as we know.
>>
>> Kind regards
>> Olivier
>>
>>
>>
>> Em 15/09/2020 12:23, DaveB escreveu:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> The decision on finalising the 7.x has been on the Docs Team meeting
>>> agenda for several weeks without any final decision/agreement.
>>>
>>> I make no secret of the fact that, apart from a couple of minor
>>> technical points, I saw no good reason to change from the 6.x template.
>>> Nevertheless, Jean has put forward a very good 7.x template proposal and
>>> I think we should use this thread to discuss her proposal and come to a
>>> final agreement on changes, if any, that should be made to that proposal.
>>>
>>> My only recommendation for the proposed 7.x template would be to change
>>> the black Heading text colours back to the previous #18a303
>>> RGB(24,163,3), because the stark B presentation would make the guides
>>> appear dull, uninteresting and to some degree unprofessional, when
>>> compared to our previous publications.
>>>
>>> I am not a fan of deadlines, but it would be good if we could come to
>>> some level of agreement by, or before, the next Docs Team meeting on
>>> September 24th.
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>> Dave


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[libreoffice-documentation] Can we please finalise the 7.x template?

[DaveB]

Hi all,

The decision on finalising the 7.x has been on the Docs Team meeting
agenda for several weeks without any final decision/agreement.

I make no secret of the fact that, apart from a couple of minor
technical points, I saw no good reason to change from the 6.x template.
Nevertheless, Jean has put forward a very good 7.x template proposal and
I think we should use this thread to discuss her proposal and come to a
final agreement on changes, if any, that should be made to that proposal.

My only recommendation for the proposed 7.x template would be to change
the black Heading text colours back to the previous #18a303
RGB(24,163,3), because the stark B presentation would make the guides
appear dull, uninteresting and to some degree unprofessional, when
compared to our previous publications.

I am not a fan of deadlines, but it would be good if we could come to
some level of agreement by, or before, the next Docs Team meeting on
September 24th.

Best Regards
Dave

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for a change to the NextCloud workflow

[DaveB]

Hi Peter,

Sounds good. There are a couple of things we need to clarify/finalise;

Would you be kind enough to put forward a proposal for the file naming
convention to be used for the new workflow/structure? I would be happy
with something like "GS7001 Introducing LibreOffice #1.odt" but you and
other team members might wish to include some additional identification.
It would be good if the team can reach consensus on this asap.

The 7.0 template needs to be finalised. I will raise a separate thread
about this.

Officially Retired? Good grief, I don't know how I ever found time for
everyday work :)))

Best Regards
Dave

 Original Message 
From: Peter Schofield [mailto:psaut...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020, 13:32 UTC
To: DaveB
Cc: LibreOffice
Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for a change to the
NextCloud workflow

> Hello Dave
> 
> I shall trial the new folders for th Draw Guide 7.0 having just created the 
> skeleton of the guide. In other words, creating chapters using the 7.0 
> template and posting in basic information.
> 
> It is not so onerous doing the two guides. More than half go the Draw Guide 
> is already done. It is called the Impress Guide. Just have to check all 
> screen shots to make sure they are OK for the Draw Guide
> 
> It keeps me busy now being officially retired.
> 
> Regards
> Peter Schofield
> psaut...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
>> On 15 Sep 2020, at 12:46, DaveB  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Peter and Team,
>>
>> My responses are given in-line.
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> From: Peter Schofield [mailto:psaut...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020, 07:50 UTC
>> To: DaveB
>> Cc: LibreOffice
>> Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for a change to the
>> NextCloud workflow
>>
>>> Hello Dave and Samantha
>>>
>>> I am with you and agree to the proposed changes, despite having slight 
>>> disagreement about folders.
>>
>> That's good to know. I am sure we can find a way to resolve small
>> disagreements.
>>
>>> Work in Progress is definitely the best name for a working folder. Archive 
>>> folder fits the bill perfectly.
>>
>> WIP (Work in Progress) seems to be a more accurate description of the
>> folder's purpose and I can think of no good reason to change the Archive
>> folder name.
>>
>>> File naming is the only thing that bugs me. Adding the date into the 
>>> filename is not necessary and does make it cumbersome.
>>
>> As I said in my reply to Sam, I am comfortable with whatever file naming
>> convention the team reaches consensus on.
>>
>>> Adding a version number (01,02, etc) to the filename would be insurance IF 
>>> someone forgets to move old files into Archive.
>>
>> Sure. Each filename being being unique is the only thing I consider to
>> be important. How that unique identity is defined is for the team to
>> agree upon.
>>
>>> As I am already working on th Impress Guide as a whole, I suppose I have 
>>> editorial control???
>>>
>>> Also, I am starting to work on the Draw Guide, which, in theory, I also 
>>> have editorial control???
>>>
>>> The Draw Guide and Impress Guide are very similar and I am swapping 
>>> information between the two guides.
>>
>> Since you have taken on the (IMO somewhat onerous) task of almost
>> single-handedly rewriting those guides,  I doubt that anyone would
>> question that you should have editorial control of those guides.
>>
>> I have been asked to take on the role of "Guide Coordinator" for version
>> 7 of the Getting Started Guide, but I have no intention (or ability) to
>> single-handedly rewrite all the chapters for that guide. I was very
>> impressed by Steve Fanning's management of the Calc Guide, but I doubt
>> that I will be able to make the same level of commitment to Getting
>> Started Guide. More on this point in the next few days.
>>
>>> Regards
>>> Peter Schofield
>>> psaut...@gmail.com
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Dave
>>
>>>> On 14 Sep 2020, at 21:09, DaveB  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Sam,
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks for your input. My responses are given in-line with the
>>>> points in your original message.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/09/2020 21:03, Samantha Hamilton wrote:
>>>>> I think ultimately this is a discussion about versioning and collaboration
>>>>> in a program (NextCloud) that is not a collaborative version control

Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for a change to the NextCloud workflow

[DaveB]

Hi Peter and Team,

My responses are given in-line.

 Original Message 
From: Peter Schofield [mailto:psaut...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020, 07:50 UTC
To: DaveB
Cc: LibreOffice
Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for a change to the
NextCloud workflow

> Hello Dave and Samantha
> 
> I am with you and agree to the proposed changes, despite having slight 
> disagreement about folders.

That's good to know. I am sure we can find a way to resolve small
disagreements.

> Work in Progress is definitely the best name for a working folder. Archive 
> folder fits the bill perfectly.

WIP (Work in Progress) seems to be a more accurate description of the
folder's purpose and I can think of no good reason to change the Archive
folder name.

> File naming is the only thing that bugs me. Adding the date into the filename 
> is not necessary and does make it cumbersome.

As I said in my reply to Sam, I am comfortable with whatever file naming
convention the team reaches consensus on.

> Adding a version number (01,02, etc) to the filename would be insurance IF 
> someone forgets to move old files into Archive.

Sure. Each filename being being unique is the only thing I consider to
be important. How that unique identity is defined is for the team to
agree upon.

> As I am already working on th Impress Guide as a whole, I suppose I have 
> editorial control???
> 
> Also, I am starting to work on the Draw Guide, which, in theory, I also have 
> editorial control???
> 
> The Draw Guide and Impress Guide are very similar and I am swapping 
> information between the two guides.

Since you have taken on the (IMO somewhat onerous) task of almost
single-handedly rewriting those guides,  I doubt that anyone would
question that you should have editorial control of those guides.

I have been asked to take on the role of "Guide Coordinator" for version
7 of the Getting Started Guide, but I have no intention (or ability) to
single-handedly rewrite all the chapters for that guide. I was very
impressed by Steve Fanning's management of the Calc Guide, but I doubt
that I will be able to make the same level of commitment to Getting
Started Guide. More on this point in the next few days.

> Regards
> Peter Schofield
> psaut...@gmail.com

Best Regards
Dave

>> On 14 Sep 2020, at 21:09, DaveB  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Sam,
>>
>> Many thanks for your input. My responses are given in-line with the
>> points in your original message.
>>
>> On 12/09/2020 21:03, Samantha Hamilton wrote:
>>> I think ultimately this is a discussion about versioning and collaboration
>>> in a program (NextCloud) that is not a collaborative version control site.
>>> I think that simplifying the folder structure would be helpful to organize
>>> the iterations of a document, but it would also mean that the file naming
>>> convention would be very important for versioning.
>>
>> Let's move away from the unnecessary complications of file naming and
>> versioning. The only important point is that each edit of a chapter file
>> is given a unique file name. If having other identifying characters in
>> the file name is what the team wants, I am fine with that.
>>
>> It doesn't matter if this is the first draft of a chapter, or the 50th
>> edited review. The file is uploaded to the Feedback/Work in Progress
>> folder and if a previous copy of that chapter file exists in the
>> Feedback/Work in Progress folder, that previous copy is IMMEDIATELY
>> moved to the Archive folder. At any one time there will only ever be one
>> (last edited) copy  of any chapter file in the Feedback/Work In Progress
>> folder of any book and for anyone wishing to review, revise or otherwise
>> edit that chapter this is the file they take.
>>
>>> As far as my understanding goes, we [would] have a process like this:
>>>
>>> 1. A new/original document is made by a Creator (this person has editorial
>>> ‘control’ over said document)
>>
>> I seem to have missed the memo about "editorial control".
>> Does this mean:
>> * If I am the first to start work on a chapter for a new version of a
>>  guide, do I get "editorial control" for just that chapter or all
>>  chapters for that version of the guide?
>> * If I take on the role of Guide Coordinator, do I get "editorial
>>  control" of that guide?
>>
>>> 2. When ready for review it is put into the “Feedback” (or “Work in
>>> Progress”) folder, with a naming scheme such as:
>>>
>>> *_>> initials>_.extension*
>>>
>>> *For example:* *IG706_AB_1Sept2020.odt*
>>
>> It's unclear wha

Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for a change to the NextCloud workflow

[DaveB]

thahamilton>[image:
> www.linkedin.com/in/shamilton-darlingdocs]
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/shamilton-darlingdocs>

Best Regards
Dave

> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 8:47 AM User  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> I am not particularly concerned about the naming of files, my only real
>> interest is that there is a simple straight forward and reliable way to
>> identify the last edition of the file and where a previous edition of
>> that file exists, it can easily be researched and/or recovered.
>> All files with any name difference automatically acquire a modified
>> date, so identification is extremely simple. Inclusion of the author
>> initials serves no real worthwhile purpose, this identification is
>> already taken care of in the status sheet and the contributors section
>> of every guide chapter. Part of the reasoning behind my suggestion that
>> we all identify our initials to names on the status sheets.
>>
>> If we had even a dozen or more regular contributors then a rigorous file
>> naming regime might serve a useful purpose.
>>
>> Having files stored in just 2 sub-directories (sub-folders) eliminates
>> any possibility of the same file being edited twice. Personally I don't
>> give a "flying fig" what name the folders are given. If it were up to me
>> I would name them WIP (Work In Progress) to hold the most recently
>> edited editions of the files and Archive to hold previously edited
>> editions. I am yet to be convinced about the value of the Published
>> folder, but my view on that point is of no importance.
>>
>> My one and only motivation is to simplify our workflow. To me
>> simplification and ease of understanding of our workflow is an important
>> part of getting and keeping new contributors involved. New contributors
>> are what the team will always need, because "creaking old geezers" like
>> you and I who understand how things were done "In the good ol' days"
>> won't be here forever.
>>
>> OK, I've had my 2c ramble. Now I will leave it to the rest of the team
>> to decide what we do.
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Dave
>>
>> PS. I am subscribed, to the list so the private mail is unnecessary :)
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> From: Peter Schofield [mailto:psaut...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020, 10:38 UTC
>> To: DaveB
>> Cc: LibreOffice
>> Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for a change to the
>> NextCloud workflow
>>
>>> Hello Dave
>>>
>>> Another thought to help in keeping track of files and this comes from
>> the day when I used to earn money in tech writing.
>>>
>>> First draft of a file and its filename use a sequence number and the
>> creator’s initials, for example IG7005-ManagingGraphicObjects-01-PS.odt.
>>> First review of a file, the reviewer adds their initials to the
>> filename, for example IG7005-ManagingGraphicObjects-01-PS-DB.odt.
>>>
>>> Second draft of a file, the sequence number increases changing the
>> filename and the creator adds their initials, for example
>> IG7005-ManagingGraphicObjects-02-PS.odt.
>>> Second review of a file, the reviewer adds their initials to the
>> filename, for example IG7005-ManagingGraphicObjects-02-PS-DB.odt.
>>>
>>> When the file is published, the filename does not have a sequence number
>> or any initials added, for example IG7005-ManagingGraphicObjects.odt.
>>>
>>> This does give a good indication of which file is which and prevents the
>> wrong file from being edited again. It worked very well for me and a team
>> of technical writers.
>>>
>>> We will agree to disagree about folder names, but still think Feedback
>> is the wrong name to use. A Published folder is a definite.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Peter Schofield
>>> psaut...@gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 11 Sep 2020, at 16:18, DaveB  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For the benefit of those who were not part of yesterday's team meeting,
>>>> or haven't yet read the minutes. I put forward a proposal as per the
>>>> subject line of this post.
>>>>
>>>> A copy of my proposal is available from:
>>>> https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/9FqwWK3m6Cy2zHQ
>>>> The proposal has 5 points together with my rational for the changes.
>>>>
>>>> If there are no reasonable objections, I propose to start updating our
>>>> NextCloud instance on Friday, 18th. September.
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Dave





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[libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for a change to the NextCloud workflow

[DaveB]

For the benefit of those who were not part of yesterday's team meeting,
or haven't yet read the minutes. I put forward a proposal as per the
subject line of this post.

A copy of my proposal is available from:
https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/9FqwWK3m6Cy2zHQ
The proposal has 5 points together with my rational for the changes.

If there are no reasonable objections, I propose to start updating our
NextCloud instance on Friday, 18th. September.

Best Regards
Dave

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[libreoffice-documentation] Chapter 13 Impress Guide Version 7 Reviewed.

[DaveB]

I have taken and reviewed the new Chapter 13 Appendix B Toolbars Peter
Schofield added to this guide. It has been returned to the guide
NextCloud Feedback folder and the guide status sheet has been updated.

Dave

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[libreoffice-documentation] Add names to guide status sheets on NextCloud

[DaveB]

Hi All,

I have been in contact with Peter Schofield and have agreed to assist in
reviewing his rewriting of the Impress Guide for version 7. Looking over
the status sheet for this guide I see the initials for a number of
contributors, some (eg. PS & JHW) I recognise, but the others I cannot
put a name to. I propose that we all add our identity to the bottom of
any status sheet we update.

Regards
Dave


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Writer Guide 6.4 on Wiki

[DaveB]

Hi Oliver,

Many thanks for the welcome.

Alive = Have a pulse, confirmed.
Well = That might be a little further down the road.

I sense that Jean is back from her most recent "walkabout" and no doubt
we will be hearing more from her soon.

Regards
Dave

On 08/09/2020 17:23, Olivier Hallot wrote:
> Welcome back Dave,
> 
> Glad you are alive and well!
> 
> The printed edition is indeed something Jean is the expert. She is away
> since a while and I guess she'll say hello to us soon.
> 
> Kind regards
> 
> Olivier
> 
> 
> Em 08/09/2020 13:11, DaveB escreveu:
>> Hi Oliver,
>>
>> The Writer Guide section of the wiki has now been updated.
>> Yes I do have access to the cloud, but I'm old fashioned and have
>> reloaded to the wiki.
>>
>> I have lost touch with the project a little in recent times, so do we
>> know if Jean has had the opportunity to organise the printed edition of
>> the 6.4 Writer guide?
>>
>> Regards
>> Dave
>>
>> On 08/09/2020 13:45, Olivier Hallot wrote:
>>> Hi Dave
>>> We just haven't got around to it. If you have access to the cloud, it is
>>> just to reload to the wiki or link to the cloud.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Olivier
>>>
>>> Em 08/09/2020 09:26, DaveB escreveu:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> The full book PDF of the Writer Guide for 6.4 is on the wiki. Is there a
>>>> reason why the individual chapters PDF & ODT have not been added there?
>>>> If it's just that we haven't got around to it, I will update the wiki.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>
> 


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Writer Guide 6.4 on Wiki

[DaveB]

Hi Oliver,

The Writer Guide section of the wiki has now been updated.
Yes I do have access to the cloud, but I'm old fashioned and have
reloaded to the wiki.

I have lost touch with the project a little in recent times, so do we
know if Jean has had the opportunity to organise the printed edition of
the 6.4 Writer guide?

Regards
Dave

On 08/09/2020 13:45, Olivier Hallot wrote:
> Hi Dave
> We just haven't got around to it. If you have access to the cloud, it is
> just to reload to the wiki or link to the cloud.
> 
> Thanks!
> Olivier
> 
> Em 08/09/2020 09:26, DaveB escreveu:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> The full book PDF of the Writer Guide for 6.4 is on the wiki. Is there a
>> reason why the individual chapters PDF & ODT have not been added there?
>> If it's just that we haven't got around to it, I will update the wiki.
>>
>> Dave

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[libreoffice-documentation] Writer Guide 6.4 on Wiki

[DaveB]

Hi All,

The full book PDF of the Writer Guide for 6.4 is on the wiki. Is there a
reason why the individual chapters PDF & ODT have not been added there?
If it's just that we haven't got around to it, I will update the wiki.

Dave


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Question re. Contributor Guide

[DaveB]

Hi Felipe,

It's unclear what you mean by "attachment in the Contributors Guide".
Most of the steps you outline are covered in the Contributor Guide.
After all these years the Contributors Guide (both document and wiki) is
still work in progress.

Not wishing to downgrade your idea, but now that there are finally an
almost reasonable number of team contributors and good progress being
made with the guides, what needs to be done is for the Documentation
Team to concentrate their efforts on completing the Contributors Guide
to sustain the momentum that has started in enlisting and supporting new
contributors. Drew's presentation is another useful move in this direction.

Years ago I pushed for this as part of the effort to engage new
contributors, but it never achieved the necessary traction. So please do
not waste the opportunity you have now.

Regards
Dave

On 17/07/2020 19:18, Felipe Viggiano wrote:
> Hello Samantha,
>
> Thinking about new contributors, I'd like to make a suggestion.
>
> I am under the impression that you are a technical writer, is that correct?
> So, what do you feel about putting a really simple procedure-like
> attachment in the Contributors Guide in order to direct the tasks for a
> beginner?
>
> It could be something very basic and clear, here's a little example for a
> new reviewer:
>
> "Step #1. Check if the cover is updated with the new template and version;
>  Step #2. Check if the number of pages is matching with the index;
>  Step #3. Check if all the dates are spelling part or all of the month
> (According to Style Guide page 2)
> ... "
>
> I don't know, just thought that it could help newcomers (just like myself)
> starting in the tasks and give a relief for the more experienced and
> professional ones, allowing them to focus on the advanced issues.
>
> Please, everyone in the list, feel free to comment about that.
>
> Best regards,
> Felipe Viggiano
>
>
> Em qui., 16 de jul. de 2020 às 16:33, Samantha Hamilton <
> samanthahamilton0...@gmail.com> escreveu:
>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> Just reflecting after the meeting today, re. Drew's presentation about "how
>> new contributors should on-board," I was curious about the progress of the
>> Contributors Guide. The Wiki (
>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development/User_Guides)
>> mentions chapters being revised. During my explorations on NextCloud, I saw
>> that a newer Contributor Resources guide is in process.
>>
>> Jean - I noticed that you are helping to write these. Is there anything you
>> need help with, by way of readthroughs or copyediting?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Sam
>>



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for 7.x guide template

[DaveB]

Hi Peter,

At the time of the final revision for the 6.x template we still had a
horribly confusing mix of OOo and LO style naming and the team
contributors agreed that we should stick with the standard names where
possible. Hence, there was no need to add new names like Chapter Title
and Chapter Subtitle, when the existing standard Title and Subtitle
styles could simply be modified to the documentation requirements.

I see the use of existing style name as being less confusing,
particularly for new contributors. Do you feel there would be any
advantage in adding new style names and asking contributors to use those
instead of the existing standard styles modified to the documentation
requirements.

Regards
Dave

On 04/06/2020 16:12, Peter Schofield wrote:
> Hello Dave
> I shall check the template 6 copy I have and let you know what I find. 
> However, that will have to wait until tomorrow when I am at my Mac mini. Your 
> list I looks about right for any template. Only exception I can think of at 
> the moment is that there should be Chapter Title and Chapter Subtitle instead 
> of Title and Subtitle. Title and Subtitle were normally used for the complete 
> book when I was writing for a living.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Peter Schofield
> Sent from my iPad Mini
> 
>> On 4 Jun 2020, at 16:53, DaveB  wrote:

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for 7.x guide template

[DaveB]

I keep forgetting LO lists only use outdated teletype formatting, so
Iam repeating my previous post in quill pen and parchment style:Hi 
Peter,The original 6.x template has/had:30 Applied Paragraph Styles + 
Default=CaptionCodeContents 1Contents 2Contents 
3Contents HeadingDefinition TermFigureFooterGuide NameHeading 1Heading 2Heading 
3Heading CautionHeading NoteHeading TipListList 1List 2Numbering 1Numbering 
2Numbering 3Page BreakSubtitleTable ContentsTable HeadingText BodyText Body 
IndentText NoteTitle6 Applied Character Styles + 
DefaultCodeEmphasisIndex LinkInternet 
LinkKeystrokeStrong EmphasisI think Jean would also like one styled as LOList 
1_TextBody to
assistwith the creating of list items under some circumstances.Which styles 
would you like to see removed?Originally there was only one 6.x template in the 
Nextcloud
"ContributorResources" folder, but for some unknown reason folks kept 
creatingadditional editions with their own modifications. Hopefully, the
DocsTeam can agree on using just the one 7.x template and save 
saveunnecessary extra work for the person compiling the final book 
forpublication. However, this seems unlikely since there are already
twoversions of the proposed 7.x template in the Nextcloud 
"ContributorResources" folder.RegardsDaveOn 04/06/2020 14:42, Peter Schofield 
wrote:HelloThere is nothing wrong with LO version 6 template, except the
  number of styles. The only thing that needs doing is serious look
  at the number of styles and the question should be asked is do we
  need the all.The version 6 template does need to be updated to match what 
is
  happening in version 7, if necessary.Mixing sans serif and serif never 
looks good in a user guide. It
  is best to keep to one style of font. Sans serif is good and it
  matches what a user would normally see on their computer screen
  when using LibreOffice.There need to be only one of the version 7 
template. At the moment
  there are too many copies of the version 6 template floating
  around and which one do you use?RegardsPeter 
Schofieldpsauthor@gmail.comOn 4 Jun 2020, at 13:37, 
DaveBuser.net@posteo.netwrote:I will not be joining today's meeting, but since 
my name still
appearsin some of the proposed template's comments I will make some
observations:* Is there really any important reason to make major 
changes to
theexisting 6.x template, or is this just change for the sake of
change?* I agree with Steve's comments below. In my view the mix of
sans serifand serif fonts used give the template a somewhat messy 
jumbledappearance and adds nothing to the readability.* Why are the guides (the 
software?) going to be given the title
of"Community Edition"? Did I miss the announcement about the
commercial orsome other edition?* My view is that unless there is some 
technical usability
improvementthat can be made to the existing 6.x template, the 7.x 
template
shouldonly include a few cosmetic changes in line with the software's
PRversion number change.My 2¢ worth.RegardsDaveOn 04/06/2020 11:25, 
Steve Fanning wrote:Hi Olivier,Some personal thoughts on your proposed LO7 
template, in
  advance of theteam meeting to be held later.I think that switching 
the Text Body paragraph style from a
  sans seriffont to a serif font is an important decision which 
shouldn’t
  be madewithout proper consideration of its impact. We certainly
  shouldn’tcommit to that change just because it distinguishes LO7 from
  LO6. Willusers of the guides find them more or less readable and
  attractive afterthe font change?If the team decide to use the serif 
font for
  the TextBody style, would it be better to use the same font family for
  thecharacter styles? This would avoid mixing sans serif and serif
  characters in a single sentence.On the first page of the
  template, Ipreferred the chapter number, chapter title and chapter
  subtitle linesto be left justified, as in the LO6 
template.Regards,Steve-- Original Message --From: "Olivier 
Hallot"olivier.hallot@libreoffice.orgTo: "LibreOffice 
Documentation"documentation@global.libreoffice.org=Sent: 02/06/2020 
20:51:20Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for 7.x guide
  templateHi TeamI have created a template candidate for our next 7.0 
Guide
booksavailable in the cloud 
athttps://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/minfbKWnn6XQkXqThis is work in 
progress and comment are welcome. I
deliberately changedsome styles...* Changed text body font to 
serif* Deleted unused custom styles in template file* rebuilt the heading style 
hierarchy where headings inherit
fromHeading paragraph style* New logo/banner on top of chapter* 
Page margins inner/outer values to 

Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for 7.x guide template

[DaveB]

Hi Peter,The original 6.x template has/had:30 Applied Paragraph Styles + 
Default=CaptionCodeContents 1Contents 2Contents 
3Contents HeadingDefinition TermFigureFooterGuide NameHeading 1Heading 2Heading 
3Heading CautionHeading NoteHeading TipListList 1List 2Numbering 1Numbering 
2Numbering 3Page BreakSubtitleTable ContentsTable HeadingText BodyText Body 
IndentText NoteTitle6 Applied Character Styles + 
DefaultCodeEmphasisIndex LinkInternet 
LinkKeystrokeStrong EmphasisI think Jean would also like one styled as LOList 
1_TextBody to
assist with the creating of list items under some 
circumstances.Which styles would you like to see removed?Originally there 
was only one 6.x template in the Nextcloud
"Contributor Resources" folder, but for some unknown reason
folks kept creating additional editions with their own
modifications. Hopefully, the Docs Team can agree on using just
the one 7.x template and save save unnecessary extra work for
the person compiling the final book for publication. However,
this seems unlikely since  there are already two versions of the
proposed 7.x template in the Nextcloud "Contributor Resources"
folder.RegardsDaveFrom:
  Peter Schofield [mailto:psaut...@gmail.com]
Sent:
  Thursday, June 4, 2020, 13:42 UTC
To:DaveB
Cc:LibreOffice
Subject:[libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for 7.x guide template


Hello


There is nothing wrong with LO version 6 template, except the number of styles. 
The only thing that needs doing is serious look at the number of styles and the 
question should be asked is do we need the all.


The version 6 template does need to be updated to match what is happening in 
version 7, if necessary.


Mixing sans serif and serif never looks good in a user guide. It is best to 
keep to one style of font. Sans serif is good and it matches what a user would 
normally see on their computer screen when using LibreOffice.


There need to be only one of the version 7 template. At the moment there are 
too many copies of the version 6 template floating around and which one do you 
use?


Regards
Peter Schofieldpsauthor@gmail.comOn 4 Jun 2020, at 13:37, 
DaveBuser.net@posteo.netwrote:


I will not be joining today's meeting, but since my name still appears
in some of the proposed template's comments I will make some observations:


* Is there really any important reason to make major changes to the
existing 6.x template, or is this just change for the sake of change?


* I agree with Steve's comments below. In my view the mix of sans serif
and serif fonts used give the template a somewhat messy jumbled
appearance and adds nothing to the readability.


* Why are the guides (the software?) going to be given the title of
"Community Edition"? Did I miss the announcement about the commercial or
some other edition?


* My view is that unless there is some technical usability improvement
that can be made to the existing 6.x template, the 7.x template should
only include a few cosmetic changes in line with the software's PR
version number change.


My 2¢ worth.


Regards
Dave


On 04/06/2020 11:25, Steve Fanning wrote:Hi Olivier,


Some personal thoughts on your proposed LO7 template, in advance of the
team meeting to be held later.


I think that switching the Text Body paragraph style from a sans serif
font to a serif font is an important decision which shouldn’t be made
without proper consideration of its impact. We certainly shouldn’t
commit to that change just because it distinguishes LO7 from LO6. Will
users of the guides find them more or less readable and attractive after
the font change?If the team decide to use the serif font for the Text
Body style, would it be better to use the same font family for the
character styles? This would avoid mixing sans serif and serif
characters in a single sentence.On the first page of the template, I
preferred the chapter number, chapter title and chapter subtitle lines
to be left justified, as in the LO6 template.
Regards,


Steve




-- Original Message --
From: "Olivier Hallot"olivier.hallot@libreoffice.orgTo: "LibreOffice 
Documentation"documentation@global.libreoffice.orgSent: 02/06/2020 20:51:20
Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for 7.x guide templateHi Team


I have created a template candidate for our next 7.0 Guide books
available in the cloud 
athttps://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/minfbKWnn6XQkXqThis is work in 
progress and comment are welcome. I deliberately changed
some styles...


* Changed text body font to serif
* Deleted unused custom styles in template file
* rebuilt the heading style hierarchy where headings inherit from
Heading paragraph style
* New logo/banner on top of chapter
* Page margins inner/outer values to allow binding.
* New Tip/Note/Warning icons/background (from Help)
* No new style, no style rename
* Suggestion for Heading colors based 

Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for 7.x guide template

[DaveB]

I will not be joining today's meeting, but since my name still appears
in some of the proposed template's comments I will make some observations:

* Is there really any important reason to make major changes to the
existing 6.x template, or is this just change for the sake of change?

* I agree with Steve's comments below. In my view the mix of sans serif
and serif fonts used give the template a somewhat messy jumbled
appearance and adds nothing to the readability.

* Why are the guides (the software?) going to be given the title of
"Community Edition"? Did I miss the announcement about the commercial or
some other edition?

* My view is that unless there is some technical usability improvement
that can be made to the existing 6.x template, the 7.x template should
only include a few cosmetic changes in line with the software's PR
version number change.

My 2¢ worth.

Regards
Dave

On 04/06/2020 11:25, Steve Fanning wrote:
> Hi Olivier,
> 
> Some personal thoughts on your proposed LO7 template, in advance of the
> team meeting to be held later.
> 
> I think that switching the Text Body paragraph style from a sans serif
> font to a serif font is an important decision which shouldn’t be made
> without proper consideration of its impact. We certainly shouldn’t
> commit to that change just because it distinguishes LO7 from LO6. Will
> users of the guides find them more or less readable and attractive after
> the font change?If the team decide to use the serif font for the Text
> Body style, would it be better to use the same font family for the
> character styles? This would avoid mixing sans serif and serif
> characters in a single sentence.On the first page of the template, I
> preferred the chapter number, chapter title and chapter subtitle lines
> to be left justified, as in the LO6 template.
> Regards,
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Olivier Hallot" 
> To: "LibreOffice Documentation" 
> Sent: 02/06/2020 20:51:20
> Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for 7.x guide template
> 
>> Hi Team
>>
>> I have created a template candidate for our next 7.0 Guide books
>> available in the cloud at
>>
>> https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/minfbKWnn6XQkXq
>>
>> This is work in progress and comment are welcome. I deliberately changed
>> some styles...
>>
>> * Changed text body font to serif
>> * Deleted unused custom styles in template file
>> * rebuilt the heading style hierarchy where headings inherit from
>> Heading paragraph style
>> * New logo/banner on top of chapter
>> * Page margins inner/outer values to allow binding.
>> * New Tip/Note/Warning icons/background (from Help)
>> * No new style, no style rename
>> * Suggestion for Heading colors based on Module colors
>> * Reworked number & bullet list position settings.
>>
>> Glad to discuss items here or in the Team meeting this Thursday June
>> 4th, 18:00 UTC
>>
>> Kind regards
>> -- 
>> Olivier Hallot
>> LibreOffice Documentation Coordinator
>> Comunidade LibreOffice
>> Rio de Janeiro - Brasil - Local Time: UTC-03:00
>> http://tdf.io/joinus


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[libreoffice-documentation] Math Guide

[DaveB]

I have taken Roman Kunetzov's 6.2 revision of the Math Guide for 1st review.
My anticipated return date is 19th. December.
Dave

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Base Handbook progress

[DaveB]

I will add some points about the Documentation NextCloud structure and 
how things have become somewhat confused.


When it was decided move from ODF Authors to NextCloud, I set up the 
NextCloud directory structure along similar lines to the one we had on 
ODF Authors. Although it was undecided if we needed a Published folder 
in the NextCloud structure. It was my understanding that our workflow 
would be also be very similar to Jean's original workflow diagram 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Workflow.png


It was about this time that we started work on the Calc guide and 
somebody arbitrarily decided that copies of the 4.1 guide should be 
deposited in the 6.0 Drafts folder. From then on things got more and 
more confusing, especially for new contributors.


I agree with Jean and would advocate that we return to the original 
workflow. Other opinions?


Dave

On 07/12/2019 10:21, Jean Weber wrote:

It makes more sense to me for updates (or new chapters) to go in Drafts,
reviews in Feedback, and finished chapters in Published (the way we did it
in ODFAuthors), instead of the way we’ve been doing it in NextCloud.

Jean

On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 at 03:32  wrote:


Hi Dan

Documents for review should be in the Feedback folder.
I moved them there for you.

Kind regards, Kees

Dan Lewis schreef op 06.12.2019 17:12:

I have completed editing the preface and chapter 1. These have been
uploaded to the Draft folder. (Is this the correct place, or what
would be a better place to put it?) I have also created a Guide status
spreadsheet based upon the Calc version. I have added one added
column: Replace screenshots. This has been placed in the Base Handbook

6.2 folder similar to where the guide status spreadsheet was placed in

Calc.


My next project is to make necessary changes in two of the example
databases that were discussed in the two documents I have uploaded. I
plan to edit one chapter at a time, and as I do so, I will be also
making editing each mentioned example databases.

In case anyone is interested, I have also created and uploaded ePUB
versions of the preface and chapter 1. They are also in the draft
folder. These are only examples of what is possible with this format;
when each document is ready for publishing, then they have to be
modified based upon any changes are made.

Dan





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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Calc Guide Chapter 3

[DaveB]

The decision to use Strong Emphasis for menu
 paths, among other similar changes was taken at a docs meeting almost a
year ago.
This document https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/4o3Zqy4EnXDrk9X
"Style Translations" was the basis for the template style changes.
The current LibreOffice_6.x_Template.ott on next cloud was the result of
that decision. The only minor revision made to the originally agreed
template was the change to the "Keystroke" character style. This
revision was discussed at a later docs team meeting attended by Olivier,
Cathy and myself 5 months ago.

Regards
Dave

On 27.10.2019 21:52, Steve Fanning wrote:
> I've been using the guidance in the file LibreOffice_6.x_Template.ott
> (available in NextCloud) which suggests using Strong Emphasis for menu
> paths.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> -Original Message- From: kees...@libreoffice.org
> Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2019 5:32 AM
> To: LibreOffice Documentation
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Calc Guide Chapter 3
> 
> Anyone?
> 
> kees...@libreoffice.org schreef op 24.10.2019 08:51:
>> Reviewing chapter 3 I notice that all menupaths and buttons are in the
>> style MenuPath.
>> As I understood they should all be in StrongEmphasis.
>> Am I correct?
>>
>> kees...@libreoffice.org schreef op 22.10.2019 10:51:
>>> I have taken this file for a second review.
>>>
>>> Kind regards, Kees
>>>
>>> Jean Weber schreef op 18.10.2019 07:17:
 I have put this chapter into the new template and cleaned up the
 styles, though I'm sure I've missed a few.
 I have NOT done a proper review of the file, because I don't have
 time. So I haven't verified that all the menu paths etc are correct.
 I have uploaded the file to the Feedback folder and moved Cathy's
 draft into Archives.
 I have updated the status spreadsheet.

 Cathy: I left no comments in the file, because I have only two
 things to say:
 1) This is one of the cleanest and best written chapters of a LO guide
 that I've seen in a long time, and the illustrations are really good.
 2) The few things that I might be inclined to change are a bit too
 much tutorial-style repetition in places. AFAICT these are left over
 from the previous version and really just a matter of opinion whether
 they are appropriate or not. No need to change them.

 Jean
> 

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] GS6012-Create HTML Files

[DaveB]

Chapter 12 with Dan's revisions, but keeping hyperlinks as suggested by
Martin, has now been uploaded to the GS6.0 published folder on ODF Authors.

Dave

On 10.08.2018 00:55, Dan Lewis wrote:
> You are right! I had not thought of that possibility.
>
> Dan
>
> On 08/09/2018 05:16 PM, Martin Srebotnjak wrote:
>> Hello, Dan,
>>
>> I would suggest leaving hyperlinks, as the chapters are also a part
>> of the printed book.
>>
>> Lp, m.
>>
>> 2018-08-09 18:07 GMT+02:00 Dan Lewis > >:
>>
>>        I have reviewed and updated this file to the feedback folder.
>>     Record and Show changes are on. There is only two areas of changes
>>     in this document. The first one is in the Copyright section. "GNU
>>     General Public License" was converted into a hyperlink as was
>>     Creative Commons Attribution License. This removes the URLs of
>>     them from sight, but becomes visible when the cursor is placed
>>     over the hyperlink.
>>
>>     The second change is the rewriting of one note on page 5.
>>
>>    
>> https://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/feedback-lo-6.0/gs6012-creating-html-files/view
>>    
>> 
>>
>>     Dan
>>
>>
>>     --     To unsubscribe e-mail to:
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>>     
>>
>>
>
>


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Chapter 10 Printing, exporting, emailing

[DaveB]

On 09.08.2018 19:27, Dan Lewis wrote:
> I have downloaded this file. Since this file is an initial draft, I
> will be reviewing it rather carefully. ETA is not yet known.
>
> I have a favor to ask of someone, probably Dave. Whoever, looks at my
> review of chapter 12, will you please add my name to the list of
> contributors? I seemed to have forgotten!
>
> Dan

OK! I will take care of your revised chapter 12 & add your name to the
list of contributors.

Dave


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[libreoffice-documentation] GS6012 - Creating HTML Files

[DaveB]

I have now uploaded chapter 12 of the GS6.0 guide to the published
folder on ODF Authors:
https://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/published-lo-6.0/gs6012-creatinghtmlfiles/view

With the removal of the Web Wizard from LO 6.0 the revision of this
chapter required major surgery and overhaul. I have checked the accuracy
of the content as best I can, but it would be greatly appreciated if
someone could spare a few moments to read through my revision and let me
know if they find anything I may have overlooked.

I am now working to complete chapter 1 Introducing LibreOffice asap.

Regards

Dave


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[libreoffice-documentation] GS6005-GettingStartedWithCalc

[DaveB]

After completing a final review of GS60 Calc chapter 5, accepting Jean's
previously recommended changes and making a couple of trivial changes of
my own, I have uploaded this chapter to the published folder on ODF
Authors:
https://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/published-lo-6.0/gs6005-gettingstartedwithcalc/view

Dave



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[libreoffice-documentation] GS6011-Graphics, Gallery, Fontwork Completed

[DaveB]

I have now uploaded chapter 11 to ODFAuthors published folder.

Regards

Dave



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[libreoffice-documentation] Hit a snag with review of chapter 11 GS6.0

[DaveB]

Hi All,

I have almost finished reviewing Chapter 11  Graphics, Gallery,
Fontwork. Now I am going back over it to double check everything works
as described in the guide.

I am looking for a bit of help/confirmation with one section regarding
inserting objects from the Gallery. On page 8 of the chapter it reads:

> To insert an object as a link:
>
> 1.
>
> Choose *Insert > Media > Gallery* and select a theme.
>
> 2.
>
> Select an object with a single click, then while pressing the
> /Shift/ and /Ctrl/ keys, drag and drop the object into the document.
>
>
> Inserting an image as a background
>
> To insert an image as the background to a page or paragraph:
>
> 1.
>
> Choose*Insert > Media > Gallery* and select a theme.
>
> 2.
>
> Select an object with a single click, right-click on the object,
> and choose *Insert as Background > Page* or *> Paragraph*.
>
When I try the steps above the key combinations do not work for me, nor
do I see the context menu options described.

I am working with LO 6.4.0.2 (x64) on a Win 7 (Ult) and I have had
endless failures with inserting media (mainly scanned images), so it's
possible that this is yet another local issue. I will try a Linux box
tomorrow, but I would appreciate someone trying the above procedures and
let me know if they work on other systems.

Thanks & Regards
Dave



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Question about reviewing chapters

[DaveB]

On 19.06.2018 15:22, Jonathan Cohen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm reviewing Chapter 12 of the Getting Started with LibreOffice manual,
> and I just wanted to confirm the general approach for such a review.
>
> The previous reviewer has included notes with questions about how certain
> things should be handled. Who makes the ultimate determination on those
> type of questions? Am I supposed to use my best judgment, consult an
> expert, bring them up to this mailing list, or do something else? I'm
> unsure how to proceed.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Jonathan Cohen
> E: jonathanaco...@gmail.com
> 

Hi Jonathan,

As far as I am aware there is no set procedure. Under normal
circumstances editors use their own best judgement, making their edits
with "Track Changes" turned on and adding "Comments" where appropriate,
so that another reviewer can propose corrections and/or changes. With
the current Getting Started chapters we are in a slightly different
situation, in that the edits we are doing now are intended to be the
final revision before publication.

Others should jump in and correct me if they have a different proposal,
but here's what I suggest:

  * If you encounter a specific issue/mistake write to the list with
details asking for advice/confirmation.
  * Return your edits with "Track Changes" and "Comments" asking for
another team member to take a look at your edits.
  * Raise the issue for discussion at the next Docs Team meeting.

Technically Olivier is the closest we get to having a final arbiter, but
as a general rule we try to reach a consensus by those folks working on
a guide.

Thank you for stepping forward to help with finishing and publishing the
"Getting Started" guide.

Best Regards

Dave




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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Upgrade The ODFAuthors Website

[DaveB]

On 13.06.2018 16:29, K-J LibreOffice wrote:
> Am 12.06.2018 um 21:00 schrieb Andreas Mantke:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm currently working on an upgrade for the ODFAuthors website.
> Great. thanks for your work.

+1 And thanks for your past maintenance of the Plone instance.

>> What content do you want to see on this frontpage?
>>
>> Do you have suggestions how to structure this content on the frontpage?
> 1. Throw away all old stuff:
> AOO & OOo
> There is no need for the TDF to stockpile these things as they are very,
> very old or not necessary for us any more.
>
> If not, put it in an archive folder very, very deep.

+1 for an archive.

> 2. Starting page:
> Delete the "Printed books for sale" section.
> ODFauthors is a working platform. We should put this information at an
> other place.

You are correct, ODFAuthors is a working platform, but I see no
beneficial reason to remove the "Printed books for sale" section. There
is a historical link between ODFAuthors (formally OpenOffice Authors)
and the printed books publisher Friends of OpenDocument
http://www.friendsofopendocument.com/newsite/ IIRC both were originally
established by Jean Weber. Profits from the sale of the printed books
are made available to support organisations promoting ODF.

> 3. Setting a link on first page:
> "If you just want to read documentation, see our published chapters at:
> https://documentation.libreoffice.org "

+1

> 4. Three links on page (in header and/or text):
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation
> https://www.libreoffice.org/
> https://www.documentfoundation.org/

+1

> 5. Perhaps a formal question:
> Get the same frame look of the page like
> https://www.libreoffice.org/  and https://www.documentfoundation.org/
>
> - a more present "LibO-green"

The green should be possible, but making a Plone instance look like a
Silverstripe driver website would, even if possible, involve a great
deal of work, which I doubt Andreas needs at this time.

> - The TDF-Icon (perhaps with a feather in it).

Which feather did you have in mind, the ASF one? :))

There is a proposal under consideration that we move from ODFAuthors to
NextCloud LibreOffice Online as our working platform. I would like to
see this discussed at today's Docs meeting.

Regards
Dave



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[libreoffice-documentation] GS6002 Uploaded

[DaveB]

Hi All,

I have "/finally/" managed to finish reviewing and updating chapter 2 of
the GS60 guide. I believe it is ready for publication, but would like
another member of the team to give it a final check:
https://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/feedback-lo-6.0/applied-lo-6-template-and-updated-the-chapter-preface/view

Regards

Dave



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] REMIND: Documentation team call is today at 19:00 Berlin Time.

[DaveB]

Unfortunately, it will not be possible for me to join today's meeting.

Regards
Dave

On 06.06.2018 13:48, Olivier Hallot wrote:
> HI Team
>
> Our documentation team meeting will take place today at 19:00 CET
> (Berlin time).
>
> We will use the following jitsi meeting room
>
> https://meet.jit.si/tdfdocteam
>
> The meeting room is supposed to work will all browsers without the need
> of a specific plugin.
>
> The documentation pad for the minute is
> http://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/documentation
>
> Main topics
> * Check & balance of the task assigned
> * Issues found, Q
> * Chapters ready for publication
> * Book assembly
>
> See you later!



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[libreoffice-documentation] Sprint Update

[DaveB]

I have taken and completed GS6001 Introducing LibreOffice.

Now taken GS6002 Setting up LibreOffice and will try to complete by
27/05/2018.

I will not be available to work on any other chapters on Wednesday &
Thursday 30th. & 31st. May, but will try to take and finish at least a
couple more chapters during this week.

Dave



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Documentation Sprint

[DaveB]

On 22.05.2018 21:39, Martin Srebotnjak wrote:
> Hi,
>
> 2018-05-22 17:07 GMT+02:00 DaveB <nore...@tasit.net>:
>
>> Using the previous 5.2 edition of this chapter as a basis for revision,
>> I see that under "Printing Options" it reads: "The printer (from the
>> printers available). The Print to File printer is now always available
>> and will generate a PDF file that you save on your disk." This is a
>> possible option available on some systems, but on other systems there is
>> no option and the user will get a PRN file, normally based on the
>> his/her default printer settings. Since this guide is geared towards
>> inexperienced users who are unlikely to know what to do with a PRN file,
>> or have software necessary to process it, I propose to remove the "Print
>> to File" reference from this chapter. I would have proposed referring
>> the reader to a more detailed guide, such as the Writer Guide, but that
>> also has the same issue.
>>
>> Any thoughts, or alternative proposals?
>>
>>  Well, on macOS that is a possibility, to print to a file - it actually
> opens a print dialog, but there you can select printing to a pdf file ...
>
> It is actually not like exporting to a pdf file - a simple example: you can
> print a document with comments printed on the page border (which is an
> option for printing on a physical printer) which you cannot do when
> exporting to a pdf file. Since there is a problem/bug exporting comments in
> pdf files on macOS (I reported a bug in bugzilla), this is a useful option.
>
> Lp, m.

Hi Martin,

Many thanks for the feedback. It looks (unsurprisingly) like macOS works
like Linux in this respect and offers the expected options, so either
this is, an issue exclusive to Windows, or something I have screwed up
locally on my Windows boxes.

I would really like to get this chapter finalised with accurate
information, so comments from any Windows users out there would be most
welcome.

Best Regards
Dave



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Documentation Sprint

[DaveB]

Hi Drew,

Thanks for checking this out. My responses are in-line with your message.


On 22.05.2018 17:41, Drew Jensen wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> I see that when you follow through with a 'print to file' as the printer
> choice;
> the dialog to name the file has a drop down for selecting the type of file,
> with
>
> All formats
> Portable Documents Format
> Any type
>
> as three choices.

Yes, that appears to be true for Linux systems, at least for all the
distros I have.

The condition arises when "Print to File" is used under windows. I have
tested on my Win 7 & 10 boxes Selecting printer preferences for this
option in the print dialog opens the normal preference settings are for
whatever is the system default printer. Clicking the final print button
brings up the standard Windows Save As dialog, with only 2 choices of
file type *.PRN or Any type(*.*). Obviously changing the file extension
is meaningless, because it is still a PRN file. This is still the case
when the Windows system has PDF printer driver software installed.

> I did not realize it was system optional for PDF to be there,
> kind of thought that was built into the application code but
> it makes sense that in this case Libo is using an external
> generator (from the OS). Your sure that is the case?

Linux & Windows printing systems are worlds apart. We would have to ask
the devs about this.

> Either way I think the GS should mention it,
> Firstly, if for some reason the person's system didn't
> recognize a local or network printer this
> 'Print to file' is still be displayed.

Yes, it will be displayed, but what would an inexperienced Windows user
do with a PRN file? During the PRN file creation the real printer dialog
appears, just like a normal print job, but the user sees no result or
output. So we get the same old whine in the support forums (eg. LO can't
print, etc. etc.)

> Second, and then maybe it is ok to mention a 'see
> LibreOffice *6.0* Module Guide' that guide isn't published
> yet and the way to make the statement accurate is
> to get something about that into it.

Jean and others did a great job with the 5.4 Writer guide, but the print
section there is almost a verbatim copy of this section in GS5.2 and I
don't think it would be a good idea to refer to a non-existent guide.

> Third, with or without the see also type reference, how about
> change that to:
>
> Which I've been trying to fashion for 10 minutes
> but it keeps getting very wordy.

Same here. I spent over an hour recreating "War & Peace" on just this
one trivial point, but gave up and finished the rest of the chapter.

> So maybe just a pass is the right way to go.

Unless we can find some Windows users to prove me wrong, this would be
my my favoured option.

I will be uploading the chapter to ODF Authors before tomorrows meeting,
so maybe the team can chew this over then.

Best Regards
Dave

> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 11:28 AM DaveB <nore...@tasit.net> wrote:
>
>> On 22.05.2018 07:46, DaveB wrote:
>>> To get the ball rolling, I have taken chapter 10 "Printing, Exporting,
>>> E‑mailing". This will be the chapter's initial draft and may require
>>> subsequent review.
>>>
>>> Dave
>> Using the previous 5.2 edition of this chapter as a basis for revision,
>> I see that under "Printing Options" it reads: "The printer (from the
>> printers available). The Print to File printer is now always available
>> and will generate a PDF file that you save on your disk." This is a
>> possible option available on some systems, but on other systems there is
>> no option and the user will get a PRN file, normally based on the
>> his/her default printer settings. Since this guide is geared towards
>> inexperienced users who are unlikely to know what to do with a PRN file,
>> or have software necessary to process it, I propose to remove the "Print
>> to File" reference from this chapter. I would have proposed referring
>> the reader to a more detailed guide, such as the Writer Guide, but that
>> also has the same issue.
>>
>> Any thoughts, or alternative proposals?
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Documentation Sprint

[DaveB]

On 22.05.2018 07:46, DaveB wrote:
> To get the ball rolling, I have taken chapter 10 "Printing, Exporting,
> E‑mailing". This will be the chapter's initial draft and may require
> subsequent review.
>
> Dave

Using the previous 5.2 edition of this chapter as a basis for revision,
I see that under "Printing Options" it reads: "The printer (from the
printers available). The Print to File printer is now always available
and will generate a PDF file that you save on your disk." This is a
possible option available on some systems, but on other systems there is
no option and the user will get a PRN file, normally based on the
his/her default printer settings. Since this guide is geared towards
inexperienced users who are unlikely to know what to do with a PRN file,
or have software necessary to process it, I propose to remove the "Print
to File" reference from this chapter. I would have proposed referring
the reader to a more detailed guide, such as the Writer Guide, but that
also has the same issue.

Any thoughts, or alternative proposals?

Dave



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[libreoffice-documentation] Documentation Sprint

[DaveB]

To get the ball rolling, I have taken chapter 10 "Printing, Exporting,
E‑mailing". This will be the chapter's initial draft and may require
subsequent review.

Dave

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[libreoffice-documentation] Uploaded Review GS6001 - Introducing LibreOffice

[DaveB]

I have uploaded this chapter to ODF Authors: http://bit.ly/2G49V5x

Dave

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[libreoffice-documentation] GS6 - Chapter 11 Graphics, Gallery, Fontwork

[DaveB]

I have now returned this chapter to ODF Authors:
https://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/feedback-lo-6.0/gs6011-graphics-gallery-fontwork/view

Reviewing and editing took considerably more time than expected, because
it required replacing a number of complex figures. I am confident about
the accuracy of the content, but it is possible I may have overlooked
something in my formatting check, so a final review would be welcome.

I will now move on to review Chapter 6 - Impress, but I will be
travelling most of this week and it is unlikely I will be unable to
finish this review before next weekend.

Dave

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] V6 chapter template?

[DaveB]

On 03.03.2018 08:36, Jean Weber wrote:
> Is there a v6 chapter template, or are we using an earlier one? If v6,
> where can I get it? I looked in ODFAuthors, Resources for
> Contributors, but didn't find one. Thanks!
>
> Jean

My obviously failing memory made me believe that I had already uploaded
this. It can now be found at:
https://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/resources-for-contributers/lo-v6-0-chapter-template/view
As the ODF Authors note says, it is little more than a copy of your
previous v5 chapter template with some minor changes.

Dave
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Errors in Draw Chapter 7 [Was: Figure numbering problem in GS6008]

[DaveB]

On 25.02.2018 22:39, Martin Srebotnjak wrote:
> Hi,
> I spotted another issue in GS6007 (Draw) where a reference to a page (below
> marked with asterisks) became hardcoded as a number (was a field in
> previous versions):
> All of these methods open the Line dialog (Figure
> 11on page ***13***), where you can set line properties.
>
> Lp, m.

Now this is seriously pedantic. There was no Figure 11 on page 13 in
previous versions of this chapter. The Figure 11 reference link goes to
page 13. However, I have now uploaded a new copy of the chapter file to
ODF Authors, the only change being the cross-reference link to page 13
you require.

Dave

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Errors in Draw Chapter 7 [Was: Figure numbering problem in GS6008]

[DaveB]

On 26.02.2018 08:12, Martin Srebotnjak wrote:
> Also, starting to update translations with the GS6007 I found there were
> still three references to "Style and Formatting" window (now "Styles").
>
> Lp, m.

I have now had opportunity to go back to the Draw Chapter 7 of the GS6.0
guide I previously reviewed and edited. After a thorough search (both
manually and using the AltSearch extension) I am unable to locate ANY
reference to "Style and Formatting" in that document. If anyone else can
find one or more instances of this reference in that file please post
back with the page numbers where they are located.

Dave

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Figure numbering problem in GS6008

[DaveB]

Your assumptions are incorrect.

On 26.02.2018 08:10, Martin Srebotnjak wrote:
> So, this will remain a bug.

No. It is intentional, NOT a bug.

> There are places in the guide where there are two screenshots under the
> same number.

No. There is ONE number (22) associated ONE screenshot (22a). The second
non-linked screenshot (22b) is positioned immediately adjacent to the
first and will remain so as any changes are made to the chapter, or full
book merges are performed. My understanding is that the original author
of the previous edition wanted to have a good quality (not resized to an
unreadable degree) screen shot of the same subject and chose to provide
two captures immediately adjacent to each other.

> Putting this chapter into one book will cause this number not to
> automatically update, because it is not autonumbered.

No. Please look again at the document and my previous statements

>  So will that warning
> be written somewhere for the maker of the full guide?

Not necessary. The person who will merge the chapters into the full
guide follows this list and is now fully informed of your thoughts on
this matter.

> Lp, m.

If this is of concern and you still consider it to be a bug, I suggest
you retract the document from ODF Authors, make the corrections you
consider necessary and resubmit your revised document for publication.

Dave
PS. Please note the @noreply tag at the end of my messages.

> 2018-02-26 8:59 GMT+01:00 DaveB <nore...@tasit.net>:
>
>> On 25.02.2018 16:37, Martin Srebotnjak wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> looking at the GS6008 chapter in the Feedback LO 6.0 folder for
>>> localization (as it says it is ready for publishing) I see there is a
>> small
>>> problem with the numbering of one figure (it might be an intentional
>> thing,
>>> because those two figures are subnumbered with a and b - maybe they
>> should
>>> be both under same number of the second one should get its own number):
>>>
>>> Figure 229b: Positioning of controls (right side of form)
>>>
>>> Well, this one is not in coded numbering, it is only a typed number,
>> which
>>> will present a problem when chapters will be put together for a full
>> guide
>>> and this number will not bump automatically to 200 and something b.
>>>
>>> Lp, m.
>> The typed number 229b was a trivial typo carried forward from the
>> previously published chapter, which should have read 22b. The fact that
>> it was intentionally manually typed will have no impact on any future
>> automatic figure renumbering. A new file, with the trivial typo
>> corrected, has now been uploaded to ODF Authors and I still consider
>> this chapter ready for publication.
>>
>> Dave
>>
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Figure numbering problem in GS6008

[DaveB]

On 25.02.2018 16:37, Martin Srebotnjak wrote:
> Hi,
>
> looking at the GS6008 chapter in the Feedback LO 6.0 folder for
> localization (as it says it is ready for publishing) I see there is a small
> problem with the numbering of one figure (it might be an intentional thing,
> because those two figures are subnumbered with a and b - maybe they should
> be both under same number of the second one should get its own number):
>
> Figure 229b: Positioning of controls (right side of form)
>
> Well, this one is not in coded numbering, it is only a typed number, which
> will present a problem when chapters will be put together for a full guide
> and this number will not bump automatically to 200 and something b.
>
> Lp, m.

The typed number 229b was a trivial typo carried forward from the
previously published chapter, which should have read 22b. The fact that
it was intentionally manually typed will have no impact on any future
automatic figure renumbering. A new file, with the trivial typo
corrected, has now been uploaded to ODF Authors and I still consider
this chapter ready for publication.

Dave

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Basic Macros RefCards

[DaveB]

Ah! Oliver beat me to it by a couple of minutes :)

On 12.02.2018 13:05, Olivier Hallot wrote:
> Em 11/02/2018 18:45, Jean-Francois Nifenecker escreveu:
>> Hello,
>>
>> for my professional needs (giving away RefCards during training
>> sessions), I have created a set of 8 refcards/cheatsheets related to
>> LibreOffice macros in Basic.
>>
>> Here's the list:
>> 1 - IDE
>> 2 - Basic - Overview
>> 3 - Calc
>> 4 - Events
>> 5 - Runtime Library
>> 6 - Dialogs
>> 7 - Files
>> 8 - Execution parameters
>>
>> I've placed them under a CC-BY-SA 4 license.
>>
>> Each comes as a single A4 document written using Writer of course (I
>> usually print them on 170g paper).
>>
>> "Unfortunately" (sigh), these documents are written in French. At "lost"
>> time, I've translated the first two of them, though (a third one is on
>> the workbench, dunno when it is done).
>>
>> Should these documents be of interest, where could I upload them?
>>
>> All the best,
> Hi Jean François
>
> Yes I had a look to them and they are really handy for the occasional
> Basic programmer.
>
> Please send the English files to me and I'll upload in the documentation
> website for English. I have prepared the page to host them:
>
> https://documentation.libreoffice.org/en/english-documentation/macro/
>
> Thank you for your kind collaboration.
>
> Regards


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] REMIND: Documentation team call is today at 19:00 Berlin Time.

[DaveB]

Sorry Jitsi dropped out on me before the meeting finished. I tried
reconnecting, but I could not hear anyone.
Dave

On 08.11.2017 10:05, Olivier Hallot wrote:
> Hi Team
>
> Our documentation team meeting will take place today at 19:00 CET
> (Berlin time).
>
> ** IMPORTANT: we will discuss new day and time for weekly meeting **
>
> We will use the following jitsi meeting room
>
> https://meet.jit.si/tdfdocteam
>
> The meeting room is supposed to work will all browsers without the need
> of a specific plugin.
>
> The documentation pad for the minute is
> http://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/documentation
>
> Main topics
> * New day and time for meeting due to daylight time changes
> * Book cover discussions
> * Review and proofread
> * Check & balance of the task assigned
> * Issues found, Q
> * continuation of the topics evaluation for GS 6.0
>
> See you later!


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] REMIND: Documentation team call is today at 19:00 Berlin Time.

[DaveB]

Hi Jorge,

It's now only 18:32 (Berlin Time).

Regards
Dave

On 08.11.2017 18:31, jorge Rodríguez wrote:
> Hi Oliver and all:
>
>     No one is in the meet room...
>
>     Something happen,
>
> Regards,
>
> Jorge Rodríguez
>
>
> El 08/11/2017 a las 03:05, Olivier Hallot escribió:
>> Hi Team
>>
>> Our documentation team meeting will take place today at 19:00 CET
>> (Berlin time).
>>
>> ** IMPORTANT: we will discuss new day and time for weekly meeting **
>>
>> We will use the following jitsi meeting room
>>
>> https://meet.jit.si/tdfdocteam
>>
>> The meeting room is supposed to work will all browsers without the need
>> of a specific plugin.
>>
>> The documentation pad for the minute is
>> http://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/documentation
>>
>> Main topics
>> * New day and time for meeting due to daylight time changes
>> * Book cover discussions
>> * Review and proofread
>> * Check & balance of the task assigned
>> * Issues found, Q
>> * continuation of the topics evaluation for GS 6.0
>>
>> See you later!
>
>

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] REMIND: Documentation team call is today at 19:00 Berlin Time.

[DaveB]

I am still traveling overseas with very limited internet access until
next week, so I will be unable to join this week's meeting, but please
feel free to allocate any tasks to me.

Regards
Dave


On 24.10.2017 12:51, Olivier Hallot wrote:
> PLease disregard... it is tomorrow!
> 
> Em 24/10/2017 09:49, Olivier Hallot escreveu:
>> HI Team
>>
>> Our documentation team meeting will take place today at 19:00 CET
>> (Berlin time).
>>
>> We will use the following jitsi meeting room
>>
>> https://meet.jit.si/tdfdocteam
>>
>> The meeting room is supposed to work will all browsers without the need
>> of a specific plugin.
>>
>> The documentation pad for the minute is
>> http://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/documentation
>>
>> Main topics
>> * Rome LibreOffice Conference report
>> * Check & balance of the task assigned
>> * Issues found, Q
>> * continuation of the topics evaluation for GS 6.0
>>
>> See you later!
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[libreoffice-documentation] Reorganization of GS6 folders on ODF Authors

[DaveB]

Hi Folks,

As mentioned at a previous Docs meeting the GS 6.0 Drafts folder was
becoming a bit overloaded and confusing. As agreed with Oliver, I have
created a slightly different folder structure for the GS 6.0 Guides:

Drafts (/Awaiting Initial Review/)
        ↳ Old Drafts
   (/Archive of Drafts moved to Feedback/)

Feedback (/Awaiting further review or publication/)
              ↳ Old Feedback
            (/Archive of Chapters that have subsequently been reviewed/)

The Old Drafts & Old Feedback sub-folders were created to archive files
no longer required, rather than deleting them. It may be that the ODF
Authors instance of Plone (the web software used) has some kind of
revert option, but I can find no evidence of this and if it should exist
would require admin privileges that I don't have.

Please check the new folder arrangement and post to the list if you
believe I have incorrectly moved or accidentally deleted any of your
uploaded files. Before making any of these changes I made an off-line
copy of all the files in the original structure to ensure that any
mistake could be easily corrected.

The intended use of this structure is:

  * When a initial chapter is created, either as an edit of the chapter
from a previous version of the guide, or a brand new chapter, it is
uploaded to the "Drafts" folder, awaiting the first review.
  * After the initial review or merge of the new/merged chapter is
uploaded to the "Feedback" folder and the initial draft or merged
ones are moved to the "Old Drafts" folder.
  * Any chapter taken for review and edited is uploaded back into the
"Feedback" folder and the previous one is moved from the "Feedback"
folder into  the "Old Feedback" folder.

Note: There is no MOVE option in the ODF Authors menus. Moves are done
by selecting (NOT opening or downloading) the file to be moved and from
the "Actions" menu select "Cut", then select either the top level of the
"Old Drafts" or "Old Feedback" folder and select "Paste" from the
"Actions" menu option.

I am not sure that my proposal fully complies with Jean Weber's original
workflow: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Workflow.png but for
the somewhat different way of working with the creation of the GS 6.0
Guide, this seems to be a sensible arrangement.

I have uploaded a document showing the current (as at the 10th. October
2017) chapters in the "Drafts" and "Feedback" folders requiring further
action/review:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/d/d9/Summary_of_ODF_Authors_Workflow_for_LO_6.0_Getting_Started_Guide.odt

Regards

Dave

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