[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Issues for Windows users when editing help files

[ptoye]

Jean,

Thanks for the support. Mac - wow, that's seriously kinky!

I'm a bit tied up for the next few weeks with a house move, buit will try to 
put things onto the wiki when there's time. They'll need checking out as I'm a 
git & gerrit newbie, so may get some things wrong.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Sunday, May 22, 2016, 2:06:22 AM, you wrote:


On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 9:16 PM, ptoye <[hidden email]> wrote: 

> As some of you may be aware, I've edited a few help files. But I found that 
> the Wiki pages on submitting changes were completely Unix oriented (totally 
> reasonable in my view) and so had quite a few problems in submitting 
> patches. 
> 
> My question is: is it worth while my editing the Wiki to try to help Windows 
> users, or am I in a minority of one? I certainly won't be a complete guide - 
> just the things that I had to do. 
> 
> 
> - 
> Peter 


My opinion: yes, it's worth adding info to help Windows users, of 
which there actually are quite a few in the Docs group. (I'm not one 
of them; I'm a Mac user.) 

--Jean 

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email] 
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted 



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Issues-for-Windows-users-when-editing-help-files-tp4184087p4184118.html
To unsubscribe from Issues for Windows users when editing help files, click 
here.
NAML



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Issues-for-Windows-users-when-editing-help-files-tp4184087p4184483.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Issues for Windows users when editing help files

[ptoye]

As some of you may be aware, I've edited a few help files. But I found that
the Wiki pages on submitting changes were completely Unix oriented (totally
reasonable in my view) and so had quite a few problems in submitting
patches.

My question is: is it worth while my editing the Wiki to try to help Windows
users, or am I in a minority of one? I certainly won't be a complete guide -
just the things that I had to do.



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Issues-for-Windows-users-when-editing-help-files-tp4184087.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Simple question about submitting a patch

[ptoye]

I'm ready to submit my first patch to  the help files, but I find the wiki a
bit confusing. 

Development/gerrit/SubmitPatch says "As a casual contributor your patch
needs to have the same email address as your gerrit account has or you will
not be allowed to push." How does a patch have an email address? And what is
my gerrit account address - I log in via Launchpad so I assume that this is
the address that I should use.

Also, is there any convention about the message content on the git commit,
like the author's name?



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Simple-question-about-submitting-a-patch-tp4182421.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Help files are inconsistent

[ptoye]

Thanks Olivier.

I can't see from this where the problem happened (I don't know Opengrok at
all - never heard of it before your post - more thanks).

The files on Opengrok have the same content as the files I downloaded. But
the help text from F1 in LO is different (and a bit better), so it looks as
if somehow the distributed text has been cleaned up but not put onto the
repository.

Details (if it helps):

Under "User options - Hide menu bar" the text from the repository is "Select
to hide...". From the help text it's "Select this option to hide..." and in
many other places as well.

I noticed this by chance.

My issue is that this is one of the files I cleaned up, and now some merging
is going to be needed, which complicates life for everyone, including no
doubt the translators.


Olivier Hallot-4 wrote
> Hello Peter
> 
> You can get the history of the file in Opengrok:
> 
> http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/history/help/source/text/shared/01/ref_pdf_export.xhp
> 
> The help content has gaps in contents and updates since long time and
> these gaps are progressively being closed by our eforts to deliver a
> consistent and precise documentation for users. It however does not
> happen in a finger snap, unfortunately.
> 
> Regards
> -- 
> Olivier Hallot





-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Help-files-are-inconsistent-tp4181014p4181967.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Use of "allow to" in documentation

[ptoye]

Sophi and Olivier,

I'm referring to help content only. The changes that I'm making are cosmetic - 
either removing grammatical errors ("allow to") or inserting articles. They 
shouldn't need translating as I'm sure the translators have already corrected 
this in their own languages.

I intend to change 8 files only. I have found a problem, though (see my latest 
thread), and will wait for this to be cleared up before submitting anything.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Wednesday, April 13, 2016, 1:41:26 PM, you wrote:


Hi Peter, 
Le 13/04/2016 14:19, Olivier Hallot a écrit : 

> Hello Peter 
> 
> Are you refering to help content or Guide Books? 
> 
> On Guide books, there is no need for bugzilla. 
> 
> On help contents, then it worth to note that HC is translated into 
> several languages. A change in the English string due to a style 
> improvement will put the string in fuzzy state, forcing the translators 
> to review the string. This is not always fun for them, because each 
> language has its style and the change in English may not apply for the 
> target language (I speak for myself because I am a translator). So in 
> case of HelpContent, I recomend proceeding changes of style only when 
> the help file is being touched by a content update, to prevent a massive 
> batch of string review. 

I completely second Olivier here. If there is a possibility of scripting 
to avoid the fuzzy tags on the target languages, then no problem. 
Otherwise, like Olivier said, better to wait for an update or proceed 
only with small volumes. 
Cheers 
Sophie 
-- 
Sophie Gautier [hidden email] 
GSM: +33683901545 
IRC: sophi 
Co-founder - Release coordinator 
The Document Foundation 

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email] 
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted 




If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Use-of-allow-to-in-documentation-tp4167829p4181037.html
To unsubscribe from Use of "allow to" in documentation, click here.
NAML



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Use-of-allow-to-in-documentation-tp4167829p4181057.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Help files are inconsistent

[ptoye]

As part of my efforts to clean up some help files I've found that at least
one file that I downloaded from git://gerrit.libreoffice.org/help doesn't
have the same text as in the corresponding LO help file (5.0.5 en-GB). This
may of course happen on other files.

This raises the question - is this a deliberate fork or has something gone
wrong? 

The file is help/source/text/shared/01/ref_pdf_export.xhp if that's any
help.



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Help-files-are-inconsistent-tp4181014.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Use of "allow to" in documentation

[ptoye]

One further issue: I don't know the LO bureaucracy but the "allow to" issue
hasn't been filed as a bug in Bugzilla. Should I do this or isn't it
necessary?




-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Use-of-allow-to-in-documentation-tp4167829p4181012.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Use of "allow to" in documentation

[ptoye]

Olivier,

Thank you. I'll do that. Then I'll have the fun of working out how to upload to 
Gerrit. Never a dull moment.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Monday, April 11, 2016, 5:36:48 PM, you wrote:


Hello Peter 

Glad to see you made it. 

Em 11/04/2016 12:27, ptoye escreveu: 
> I now think that I've managed to set up my Git repository correctly, so I'll 
> start editing. 
> 
> I've two questions: 
> 
> 1) There are about 8 files to modify. Should I submit all of them in one 
> commit, or do each separately? 

Your mileage may vary. 8 is a good number to not stress the patch 
reviewer, especially if the patches are related. 

> 
> 2) As well as the "allow to" issue, I've noticed that some files have 
> slightly ungrammatical English in that they leave out the articles ("A" and 
> "The") - easily done if your first language doesn't use them at all. I can 
> patch this at the same time. Again, is it worth while doing a separate 
> commit as logically the corrections are completely separate? 

On the same files as above, please include the grammatical corrections 
you find. 

Thank you 

> 
> 
> 
> 
> - 
> Peter 
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Use-of-allow-to-in-documentation-tp4167829p4180856.html
> Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com. 
> 

-- 
Olivier Hallot 
Comunidade LibreOffice 
http://ask.libreoffice.org/pt-br

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email] 
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted 




If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Use-of-allow-to-in-documentation-tp4167829p4180864.html
To unsubscribe from Use of "allow to" in documentation, click here.
NAML



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Use-of-allow-to-in-documentation-tp4167829p4180867.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Use of "allow to" in documentation

[ptoye]

I now think that I've managed to set up my Git repository correctly, so I'll
start editing.

I've two questions:

1) There are about 8 files to modify. Should I submit all of them in one
commit, or do each separately?

2) As well as the "allow to" issue, I've noticed that some files have
slightly ungrammatical English in that they leave out the articles ("A" and
"The") - easily done if your first language doesn't use them at all. I can
patch this at the same time. Again, is it worth while doing a separate
commit as logically the corrections are completely separate?




-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Use-of-allow-to-in-documentation-tp4167829p4180856.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Problems editing help files

[ptoye]

Thanks Olivier,

I'm wondering if the problem is that I used Git-GUI to do the initial clone and 
add/commit rather than the console. And Git-GUI doesn't tell you exactly what 
it's doing.

One point - Git is installed in my Program Files directory (the default), which 
Windows protects from casual overwriting. If Git wants to write in this 
directory, it might fail. Could this be an issue? I'd have expected at least an 
error message.

2)
OK. But I get the same:
Peter@Peter-PC2 MINGW64 /d/peter/pc/git/lohelp (master)
$ git commit -m "Try 4th time" help
On branch master
Changes not staged for commit:
modified:   help (modified content)

no changes added to commit

Peter@Peter-PC2 MINGW64 /d/peter/pc/git/lohelp (master)
$

4)

$ git diff help
diff --git a/help b/help
--- a/help
+++ b/help
@@ -1 +1 @@
-Subproject commit e22230a873bf0cd2e10746557f6d0003ee7a9859
+Subproject commit e22230a873bf0cd2e10746557f6d0003ee7a9859-dirty


Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, April 8, 2016, 7:47:50 PM, you wrote:


Hello Peter 

some remarks 
1) 
git status: Strange... the modified file should have the full path listed 

modified: path/to/file/filename.xhp 

2) 
git commit -m "3rd party" 

You must give the name of the file you modified for commit. That is 
git commit -m "3rd party" file1 file2 file3... 

3) 
git add help 

This "help" stuff is already been under git control, no need ot add it 
again. 

4) 
git status 
Same as 1. 

"git diff" will list the changes you did since last "git pull" 

regards 

Olivier 




Em 08/04/2016 11:38, ptoye escreveu: 

> Thanks Olivier. I don't have time now to do an interactive chat. Possibly 
> next week. 
> 
> I'm sure that Git is great, but as with all such tools it has to do a lot of 
> things so it gets complicated fairly quickly. As an ex-software writer I 
> sympathise with the designer. 
> 
> But here's a quick excerpt of a console session. There's just one changed 
> file 4 directories deep from /help/ which is the top level of the clone from 
> the LO site. 
> 
> 
> <http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4180637/GitSession.jpg> 
> 
> 
> 
> - 
> Peter 
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Problems-editing-help-files-tp4180557p4180637.html
> Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com. 
> 

-- 
Olivier Hallot 
Comunidade LibreOffice 
http://ask.libreoffice.org/pt-br

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email] 
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted 




If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Problems-editing-help-files-tp4180557p4180655.html
To unsubscribe from Problems editing help files, click here.
NAML



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Problems-editing-help-files-tp4180557p4180674.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Problems editing help files

[ptoye]

Thanks Olivier. I don't have time now to do an interactive chat. Possibly
next week.

I'm sure that Git is great, but as with all such tools it has to do a lot of
things so it gets complicated fairly quickly. As an ex-software writer I
sympathise with the designer.

But here's a quick excerpt of a console session. There's just one changed
file 4 directories deep from /help/ which is the top level of the clone from
the LO site.


 



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Problems-editing-help-files-tp4180557p4180637.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Problems editing help files

[ptoye]

I'm trying for the first time to edit a live help file and have come up
against a few problems. *WARNING* I'm a Git virgin so please treat me
kindly.

Firstly, the Git tutorials that I've found assume that all files are in a
single one-level directory structure. Easy for teaching, but not for real
life! I cloned the help files into a local Git repository (that seemed to
work OK) and edited a file.
git status then tells me that help has modified content. If I do "git add
help" git status gives me exactly the same as before,Obviously I'm doing
something wrong, but can't see what it is. Do I have to type the entire path
& file name into the git add command?

Secondly, the LO Writer Help Authoring extension doesn't seem to be acting
as advertised. Previously, I'd tried editing a few local help files, and so
my document root was a test directory. As the wiki suggests I tried changing
this, but the "Help Authoring|Set Document Root" menu item, asks me to set a
directory, but "Help Authoring|Open File" still goes to the old root. Again,
am I doing something wrong, or is there a bug?



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Problems-editing-help-files-tp4180557.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Use of "allow to" in documentation

[ptoye]

Jan,

Sorry it's taken so long - I got held up as you might have seen.

I'm getting ready to make the first set of amendments now, but I'm still a bit 
confused about the workflow. Do I update the help file on the Git repository 
(using push) directly, or do I use gerrit? In the latter case I assume that I 
don't need Git except for my own purposes.

I've not yet tried to get onto gerrit, so I'll try to do that tomorrow (unless 
something of higher priority arrives). You have been warned

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Thursday, December 3, 2015, 8:12:47 PM, you wrote:


Hi Peter, 

Peter Toye píše v St 02. 12. 2015 v 16:13 +: 

> OK, when I have time I'll fix the wiki, That's the easy bit. 

Cool, thanks! :-) 

> For the help files, I already have a Git system on my PC (used with 
> Visual Studio Express), but don't know Gerrit at all. I'll read 
> through the documentation on how Git is used for the help files, but I 
> think I'll need help on Gerrit. It won't be for a few days. 

I see.  gerrit is (just) a review system; in other words, a system that 
allows everybody to have write access - you can commit and push your 
changes (to gerrit), where somebody with the appropriate rights will 
read your change, and either comment on that (so that you know what to 
fix), or will merge it to the main git. 

You need to do a bit of a setup: 

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/gerrit/setup

but then for your work, you'll push very similarly as with the normal 
git. 

>  I don't have an IRC client (or does WIndows 7 have one built-in - 
> I've not found it?) so that will be the first thing. What timezone are 
> you in - your name implies the Central European time zone - UTC+1, so 
> it shouldn't be too difficult to find a time that we're both awake. 

Better if you have an IRC client, but if not, you can join via web too: 

https://webchat.freenode.net/

Join the #libreoffice-dev channel, I'm sure you'll find many people who 
will be able to help you with the gerrit setup, if I'm not around or not 
responding from some reason (I'm "kendy" there). 

All the best, 
Kendy 


-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email] 
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted 



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Use-of-allow-to-in-documentation-tp4167829p4168222.html
To unsubscribe from Use of "allow to" in documentation, click here.
NAML



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Use-of-allow-to-in-documentation-tp4167829p4180433.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Help-files: Large-scale 'cosmetic' changes

[ptoye]

Hi Sophi,

It's a bit confusing as there are two threads involved here. The first one is 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Use-of-quot-allow-to-quot-in-documentation-td4167829.html
 but a second thread got started about "cosmetic" changes. Does this help you? 
Most of my comments really should be in the original thread.

I'm really talking about the help files, which is where I started. I can have a 
look at the guides to see if they have the same or similar problems. But one 
project at a time please!

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Thursday, March 31, 2016, 3:22:04 PM, you wrote:


Hi Peter, 

Sorry I didn't follow the all thread (difficult to read and get its 
context, also) 
Le 31/03/2016 11:32, ptoye a écrit : 
> TomD, 
> 
> Thanks for all of this. I must say that is was a bit disheartening to 
> be first welcomed into the community and then left dangling for 3 
> months. Especially as now the days are getting longer I don't have 
> the dark evenings to work at it. And I'm also in the throes of buying 
> a house, which will take up quite a bit of time. So I may not be able 
> to get things done may not move as quickly as I would have in 
> December. 

Sorry to hear that you didn't get feedback on our side, I'm sure Olivier 
will be able to help you for now on, and great that you're still there :) 
> 
> I agree with you about the problems of  non-native English speakers. 
> As English is the common language of computing most people in the 
> field have a good grasp of the language. But written technical 
> English is very different from spoken or emailed English, and I 
> suspect that inaccurate teaching doesn't help. In short, what's 
> needed is an editing process whereby a native speaker can remove 
> issues before they're published. If only. 

Are you talking about the guides or the help? 

> 
> [Short digression - if you look at the manuals which come with some 
> East Asian equipment, LO documentation comes over as a model of 
> clarity and accuracy. One such document tells me that using the 
> equipment may be fatal. It's for a TV set and the programmes aren't 
> usually that bad.] 
> 
> Oh well, now I've got that off my chest, I can start looking at the 
> workflow for modifying the texts. I gather that I have to learn git 
> and gerrit first :( 

You don't need to learn git or gerrit to contribute to the 
documentation, it's only if you want to, but this is absolutely not 
needed. What would be your preferred area to contribute? 
Cheers 
Sophie 

-- 
Sophie Gautier [hidden email] 
GSM: +33683901545 
IRC: sophi 
Co-founder - Release coordinator 
The Document Foundation 

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email] 
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted 



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Help-files-Large-scale-cosmetic-changes-tp4169547p4180003.html
To unsubscribe from Help-files: Large-scale 'cosmetic' changes, click here.
NAML



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Help-files-Large-scale-cosmetic-changes-tp4169547p4180017.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Help-files: Large-scale 'cosmetic' changes

[ptoye]

gt; 
> 
> > The 2 currently proposed ways of correcting this are; 
> 
> > 1.  A "broad brush strokes" sweeping change to "search and replace" to 
> > replace it with something like "allows you to", which is not a perfect 
> > fit for all circumstances but is mostly "good enough".  It's not 
> > always clear who "you" refers to but mostly it's fairly clear or the 
> > ambiguity is tolerable.  There are a few cases where the sweeping 
> > change is just as confusing or nonsensical but it hides the problem in 
> > the majority of cases. 
> 
> > 2.  A careful and detailed re-phrasing of each occurrence 
> > individually.  This will take a long time and requires a lot of very 
> > intensive work.  It's would be very similar to doing a lot of 
> > translations - from geeky-English to English. 
> 
> > 3.  A hybrid of the first two.  Option 1 and then followed by option 
> > 2.  This gives us a "quick fix" improvement to start with and then the 
> > detailed corrections later. 
> 
> 
> > You may have better ideas.  This may be similar to a problem you have 
> > had to solve and you may have experience of what works best.  Please 
> > let the documentation team know. 
> 
> > The additional problem is that changing the English version might well 
> > have a negative impact on all or most of the translations.  That is 
> > the main problem i hope we can solve without too much pain. 
> 
> > Many regards from 
> > Tom :) 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > On 6 December 2015 at 21:06, Tom Davies <[hidden email]> wrote: 
> >> Hi :) 
> >> I really like Steve Edmonds' suggestion as a quick fix to quickly 
> >> solve the immediate issue through tons of the documentation in one 
> >> fast process.  Alex Thurgoodes' and Peter Toyes' ideas may be higher 
> >> quality in many cases but i think they require a more in-depth reading 
> >> and understanding of each occurrence.  Using Steve's suggestion as a 
> >> "first parse" and then following up with the more intensive ideas 
> >> might just be completely perfect. 
> >> 
> >> I do have 1 worry wrt the help files.  These files get translated and 
> >> changes such as are being proposed here would mark all those 
> >> translations as wrong.  For teams with a lot of people or where they 
> >> have completed translating all the help-files, or done none at all, 
> >> there is less of a problem.  However my worry for teams who have done 
> >> a significant amount of work but not yet completed all the help files. 
> >> For them it will mean a significant amount of work to re-check work 
> >> they have already done in order to find where they really need to 
> >> start from. 
> >> 
> >> So, i will email the international translators team to let them know 
> >> what is being planned and to ask their advice.  Until we get feedback 
> >> from them please can i ask that wide-scale correction of the 
> >> help-files gets delayed?  Sorry i am really late in this thread!  So 
> >> if it's already been done then don't worry and just let me know 
> >> because it's my fault for not noticing this thread earlier. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> I think the help files need a lot of work, both in 
> >> 1.  reviewing how the functionality really works and checking the 
> >> accuracy of the instructions and 
> >> 2.  proof-reading grammar and such like to make it a bit less geeky 
> >> and more "man(/woman) on the street" 
> >> 
> >> As they are those help-files are much easier to translate and a LOT of 
> >> good work is done by a tiny team.  However i think it would still be 
> >> good if native-English speakers could re-phrase some of it or/and 
> >> simplify it. 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Good luck with the Wiki!  It is really great to see this type of work 
> >> getting under-way.  Regardless of my earlier misgivings about the 
> >> help-files i think this is all something that would be great to see 
> >> being done and it would help LibreOffice quite a lot to get this sort 
> >> of thing under-way. 
> >> 
> >> Many thanks and regards from 
> >> Tom :) 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On 6 December 2015 at 14:56, ptoye <[hidden email]> wrote: 
> >>> Hi Jan, 
> >>> 
> >>> I read through the pages on gerrit setup (two of them - they seem to 
> be very simil

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Help-files: Large-scale 'cosmetic' changes

[ptoye]

Thanks Regina - got it.

I have to admit that at 249 pages it's not going to be my bedtime reading,
though 



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Help-files-Large-scale-cosmetic-changes-tp4169547p4170541.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Help-files: Large-scale 'cosmetic' changes

[ptoye]

Jean Weber wrote
> Free copy of PDF available here:
> http://www.jeanweber.com/newsite/wp-content/uploads/ITHH_Ebook.pdf

Dear Jean,

I get an error 404 from this link.

Peter




-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Help-files-Large-scale-cosmetic-changes-tp4169547p4170498.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Help-files: Large-scale 'cosmetic' changes

[ptoye]

Jean,

I tried again and got this again:

Not Found
The requested URL /newsite/wp-content/uploads/ITHH_Ebook.pdf was not found on 
this server.
Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an 
ErrorDocument to handle the request.

I don't think it's my browser (Firefox) as the message seems to come from your 
server.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Thursday, December 31, 2015, 3:44:22 PM, you wrote:


Jean Weber wrote
Free copy of PDF available here: 
http://www.jeanweber.com/newsite/wp-content/uploads/ITHH_Ebook.pdf
Dear Jean, 

I get an error 404 from this link. 

Peter 
Peter 



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Help-files-Large-scale-cosmetic-changes-tp4169547p4170498.html
To unsubscribe from Help-files: Large-scale 'cosmetic' changes, click here.
NAML



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Help-files-Large-scale-cosmetic-changes-tp4169547p4170510.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Help-files: Large-scale 'cosmetic' changes

[ptoye]

Tom (and others),

I'm not sure that "allow to" is such an enormous problem with the help
files. There are only 8 help files which use "allow to" or "allows to", and
only one of them has more than one occurrence, so manual change is easily
possible - no automation needed.

A far larger problem is the API documentation where the problem is
widespread. Clicking at random I found
http://www.openoffice.org/api/docs/common/ref/com/sun/star/bridge/Bridge.html
at the first attempt! And I can't think of a way in which "allows to
initialize" could be changed to "initializes" automatically.

As to whether "you" should be allowed in a help file, I have no deep
feelings - this appears to be contentious, but is used a lot in some files.
As there is a human being using the help file, I see no harm in referring to
them as "you". As it happens "allows you to" also occurs in at least one
help file. But I do not think that "you" has a place in API documentation -
there is no human being involved in calling a method or using an interface
(or is it the programmer?).



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Help-files-Large-scale-cosmetic-changes-tp4169547p4169802.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Use of "allow to" in documentation

[ptoye]

Hi Jan,

I read through the pages on gerrit setup (two of them - they seem to be very 
similar to start with, and I fond that  bit confusing!), and started to get 
onto the gerrit system. Then I found that the commands to use gerrit were 
totally Unix-oriented so asked on IRC and was pointed to the LO development on 
Windows wiki page, which implies that I have to install cygwin. Is this 
necessary just for gerrit registration? I won't be building LO itself, just 
editing the help files.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Thursday, December 3, 2015, 8:12:47 PM, you wrote:


Hi Peter, 

Peter Toye píše v St 02. 12. 2015 v 16:13 +: 

> OK, when I have time I'll fix the wiki, That's the easy bit. 

Cool, thanks! :-) 

> For the help files, I already have a Git system on my PC (used with 
> Visual Studio Express), but don't know Gerrit at all. I'll read 
> through the documentation on how Git is used for the help files, but I 
> think I'll need help on Gerrit. It won't be for a few days. 

I see.  gerrit is (just) a review system; in other words, a system that 
allows everybody to have write access - you can commit and push your 
changes (to gerrit), where somebody with the appropriate rights will 
read your change, and either comment on that (so that you know what to 
fix), or will merge it to the main git. 

You need to do a bit of a setup: 

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/gerrit/setup

but then for your work, you'll push very similarly as with the normal 
git. 

>  I don't have an IRC client (or does WIndows 7 have one built-in - 
> I've not found it?) so that will be the first thing. What timezone are 
> you in - your name implies the Central European time zone - UTC+1, so 
> it shouldn't be too difficult to find a time that we're both awake. 

Better if you have an IRC client, but if not, you can join via web too: 

https://webchat.freenode.net/

Join the #libreoffice-dev channel, I'm sure you'll find many people who 
will be able to help you with the gerrit setup, if I'm not around or not 
responding from some reason (I'm "kendy" there). 

All the best, 
Kendy 


-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email] 
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted 



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Use-of-allow-to-in-documentation-tp4167829p4168222.html
To unsubscribe from Use of "allow to" in documentation, click here.
NAML



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Use-of-allow-to-in-documentation-tp4167829p4168465.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Use of "allow to" in documentation

[ptoye]

Hi Alex,

See my reply to steveedmonds: "selects a/the..." sounds better to my ears.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, December 1, 2015, 10:03:47 AM, you wrote:


Le 30/11/2015 12:28, ptoye a écrit : 


Hi Peter, 

Yes, we there are no doubt more suitable English constructions for this 
such as : 

"enable" + "verbal noun" 

e.g. 
enables (the) selection of 
enables selecting a/the 

and no doubt many others. 

Alex 


-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email] 
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted 




If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Use-of-allow-to-in-documentation-tp4167829p4167897.html
To unsubscribe from Use of "allow to" in documentation, click here.
NAML



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Use-of-allow-to-in-documentation-tp4167829p4168056.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Use of "allow to" in documentation

[ptoye]

Hi steveedmonds,

Why not leave it out altogether? "Set Document Roots: Selects the document as 
root file."

Saves typing!

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, December 1, 2015, 12:51:30 AM, you wrote:


Hi. 
I come across this a lot in manuals I transcribe. I most frequently 
insert a "you". 

Set Document Root: allows to select the document as root file >> Set Document 
Root: allows you to select the document as root file 

Not sure of the context, the above is still ambiguous to me although it 
provides an example of insertion of "you" and because it is so frequent 
(in my work) a search and replace is a quick fix. 
Steve 

On 2015-12-01 00:28, ptoye wrote: 

> I've noticed that the phrase "allow to" or "allows to" appears a lot in the 
> API documentation, and also in some of the help files. AS a native UK 
> English speaker, I feel that I should point out that this is incorrect 
> grammar (I think it's also incorrect in US English). "Allow" must take an 
> object (except in the phrase "allow for"). There's a good discussion of this 
> in 
> http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/85069/is-the-construction-it-allows-to-proper-english
> which implies that it's a translation problem (maybe a German speaker here 
> would like to comment). 
> 
> For example "If the current entry in the Settings listbox allows to edit a 
> value, you can click the Edit button." needs editing to something like "If 
> the current entry in the Settings listbox is set to allow editing of a 
> value,  you can click the Edit button." 
> 
> There is also the question of whether "allows" is the correct word in many 
> cases. " allows to " is, strictly speaking, 
> ambiguous. Does it mean that the parameter sets/clears a switch which makes 
> the change of possible (the strict meaning of "allows"), or that the 
> parameter changes the the value directly, in which case "allows to change" 
> can be replaced by "changes"? In many cases, I suspect that the latter is 
> intended. 
> 
> There's an example below taken from 
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/HelpContent#Make_Images_Appear which 
> shows the problem:  three of these paras use "allows to", three don't, but I 
> think they all have the same meaning! 
> 
>  Create help file: creates a new .xhp file based on the template. If the 
> template is not found, the file can't be created and an error message is 
> displayed. 
>  About: displays the version number of the extension 
>  Set Document Root: allows to select the document as root file 
>  Edit meta data: allows to give a title to the help file and to leave a 
> comment. The Indexing button allows to include or ignore the file when 
> running a search 
>  Validate this help file: allows to run some checks on the xml structure 
> of the file 
>  Toggle l10n: sets the localize attribute on false: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - 
> Peter 
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Use-of-allow-to-in-documentation-tp4167829.html
> Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com. 
> 


-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email] 
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted 




If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Use-of-allow-to-in-documentation-tp4167829p4167880.html
To unsubscribe from Use of "allow to" in documentation, click here.
NAML



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Use-of-allow-to-in-documentation-tp4167829p4168055.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Use of "allow to" in documentation

[ptoye]

I've noticed that the phrase "allow to" or "allows to" appears a lot in the
API documentation, and also in some of the help files. AS a native UK
English speaker, I feel that I should point out that this is incorrect
grammar (I think it's also incorrect in US English). "Allow" must take an
object (except in the phrase "allow for"). There's a good discussion of this
in
http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/85069/is-the-construction-it-allows-to-proper-english
which implies that it's a translation problem (maybe a German speaker here
would like to comment).

For example "If the current entry in the Settings listbox allows to edit a
value, you can click the Edit button." needs editing to something like "If
the current entry in the Settings listbox is set to allow editing of a
value,  you can click the Edit button."

There is also the question of whether "allows" is the correct word in many
cases. " allows to " is, strictly speaking,
ambiguous. Does it mean that the parameter sets/clears a switch which makes
the change of possible (the strict meaning of "allows"), or that the
parameter changes the the value directly, in which case "allows to change"
can be replaced by "changes"? In many cases, I suspect that the latter is
intended.

There's an example below taken from
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/HelpContent#Make_Images_Appear which
shows the problem:  three of these paras use "allows to", three don't, but I
think they all have the same meaning!

Create help file: creates a new .xhp file based on the template. If the
template is not found, the file can't be created and an error message is
displayed.
About: displays the version number of the extension
Set Document Root: allows to select the document as root file
Edit meta data: allows to give a title to the help file and to leave a
comment. The Indexing button allows to include or ignore the file when
running a search
Validate this help file: allows to run some checks on the xml structure
of the file
Toggle l10n: sets the localize attribute on false:




-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Use-of-allow-to-in-documentation-tp4167829.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Lera,

And thank you very much for your help.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Sunday, November 29, 2015, 12:41:51 PM, you wrote:


Hi Peter, 

I have pushed the patch. https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/20269/
I made some changes such as replacing your comment with links, a change of 
formatting, correction some typos. Usually a patch can be approved within a 
week. It depend on free time other team members. When the patch be approved, a 
message about it appear in the bug report. 

Thank you a lot for your contribution. 

Best regards, 
Lera 

В письме от 22 ноября 2015 05:00:47 пользователь ptoye написал: 

> I've uploaded it to the bugzilla site. Thanks for your help. 
> 
> 
> 
> - 
> Peter 
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Can-I-help-tp4166244p4167018.html Sent 
> from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com. 


-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email] 
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted 



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Can-I-help-tp4166244p4167730.html
To unsubscribe from Can I help?, click here.
NAML



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Can-I-help-tp4166244p4167824.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

I've modified it a bit more, taking your comments into account. Uploaded it
to the Bugzilla site.



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Can-I-help-tp4166244p4167628.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Possible help files rename?

[ptoye]

Hi Jan,

I think that you are writing about me. But I should point out that Sophi and 
Regina here were extremely helpful and showed me the main_transform file which 
puts the file name and path at the head of the text. Then I found the file I 
wanted immediately. 

I agree that meaningful file names might help - but in which language? Even US 
and UK English may differ. And I've no idea what the Czech for "query" is!

An even higher barrier is that my system is based on Windows, and most of the 
tools used here are Unix-based - you mention grep. There are almost certainly 
Windows equivalents, but they take a bit of finding and don't always work too 
well.

I appreciate your views, and your support for me, but I have to agree with 
Martin.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Tuesday, November 24, 2015, 3:30:23 PM, you wrote:


Hi Martin, 



We have just seen a guy interested in editing help, and this was one of 
his struggles there - that he just couldn't find the help file he needs 
to edit.  Asking him to grep all the main0123.xhp files (and alike) is 
just as nice as telling him "go away, we don't want you" :-( 



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Can-I-help-tp4166244p4167248.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Hi Lera,

Thanks for your comments. As a first-time producer of LO documentation I wasn't 
sure about the MS Office reference. I put it in as many years ago I used 
Office, and found that the LO syntax rules for parameter names/prompts a bit 
confusing when I tried to put some spaces in. But I'm 100% happy for you to 
remove that paragraph. I realise that LO is nothing whatsoever to do with 
Office!

"Designer/developer". No problem with changing it. Your wording is better. I 
should have thought of it.

"User". We need some way to distinguish the person who is using the database 
from the person developing it. After all, the concept of the parameter query 
was designed to allow the person using the database to input parameter values. 
Do you have a better word? Maybe recast the sentences using it to say something 
like "at run-time" (which is in the first sentence. If you prefer that I'll 
send a revised version in, but I think it will be difficult not to mention the 
fact that it's a human being that inputs the parameter value. I notice that the 
original version had "you" - whoever that might be - which strikes me as even 
less professional.

There's also the problem of the paragraph which I didn't understand. I think 
that what the original author was trying to say was that parameter queries are 
commonly used in subforms to restrict the records to be displayed. Is that your 
impression? If so, I can rewrite it. It also should be moved to the section on 
Parameter queries - it's nothing to do with input.

Your English is better than my Russian!

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Monday, November 23, 2015, 6:31:57 PM, you wrote:


Hi Peter, 

Your changes look very good. It really begins to look more professional and 
easier to read and translate. Thank you a lot for your contribution. I can 
prepare the patch in the nearest future. 

I have only a few proposals. 
We can not use a reference to an application of a competitive office suite like 
MS Access. In the official Help this looks very strange. If we assume that a 
human can have difficulties in learning LibreOffice from habits to work with 
another popular office application, we need to tell about differences, but 
without using reference to this application. LibreOffice is not a fork of MSO. 
There are many other office suites as GoogleDrive, GNOME Office, Calligra Suite 
etc. And we should not make a comparative table out of the Help. 
I think that the sentence “For designers familiar with Access, the prompt is 
more restricted as it cannot contain spaces or reserved characters.” needs 
changing. 

A mention of a user does not let the Help to look professional. In my opinion, 
this can be done for a Guide or FAQ, but we need to avoid it, and to focus on 
a functional description. 

The last, for me “designers of a database” looks strange. I am used to see 
“developers of a database”. I am not an English native speaker, and I can not 
be sure, but when I get the order on a database, usually I am called 
“developer”. I really don't know what we need to use in this case, just to 
draw your attention. 

What do you think about these? 

Best regards, 
Lera 

В письме от 20 ноября 2015 11:06:10 пользователь ptoye написал: 

> Regina, 
> 
> Thanks Regina. I've already noted this as a bug so I'll attach it there. 
> Thanks ever so much for your help and patience with a (LO documentation) 
> beginner. 
> 
> Best regards, 
> 
> Peter 
> mailto:[hidden email] 
> www.ptoye.com 
> 
> - 
> Friday, November 20, 2015, 3:51:53 PM, you wrote: 
> 
> 
> Hi Peter, 
> 
> ptoye schrieb: 
> > Thanks Regina - I got it and installed it. I've now amended the relevant 
> > help page. Do I upload the whole page here, or just the bits I changed? 
> > Or send it somewhere else? 
> 
> This list strips attachments, therefore you cannot attach it here. 
> 
> LibreOffice uses its Bugzilla to track bugs, enhancements and feature 
> requests. For how to use Bugzilla see 
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugReport#Submitting_a_bug
> 
> If you do not have a Bugzilla account yet, you need to create one. 
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/createaccount.cgi
> 
> With using Bugzilla and an account there, your changes get the correct 
> license automatically. 
> 
> "Product" is of cause LibreOffice. 
> For changes in the help pages use the component "Documentation". 
> 
> I think it is better to attach the whole file. That way others can 
> generate a diff file, which is needed in the further work flow. 
> 
> Look, whether a bug exists, that already describe the problem. If yes, 
> then attach the changed file there. 
> 
> If no bug exists, create a new report. When creating a new repo

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Help Writer's Guidelines

[ptoye]

toki wrote
> There is _Chapter 5 Style Guide_ in _The LibreOffice Contributor's Guide_.
> 
> To supplement those guidelines, it recommends:
> * _The Chicago Manual of Style_. University of Chicago Press;
> * _Read Me First! A Style Guide for the Computer Industry_. Sun
> Microsystems;
> * _The Modern Language Association (MLA) guidelines_;
> 
> jonathon

Are the documents you mention available on the Web? I found the Chicago
Manual of Style, but my browser has an adblocker and the download failed.

MLA seems more oriented towards academic than technical writing.




-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Help-Writer-s-Guidelines-tp4164839p4167217.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

I've uploaded it to the bugzilla site. Thanks for your help.



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Can-I-help-tp4166244p4167018.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Here it is - I think.

02010100.xhp
  



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Can-I-help-tp4166244p4167017.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Thanks Regina - I got it and installed it. I've now amended the relevant help
page. Do I upload the whole page here, or just the bits I changed? Or send
it somewhere else?



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Can-I-help-tp4166244p4166887.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Help Writer's Guidelines

[ptoye]

I agree. I am trying to improve a page at the moment, and it is not easy to
see at one place what the original author meant. This may be a translation
problem, and I realise that it is difficult if the translator is not an
educated native speaker of the target language (in this case, UK English).
Also, there are frequent grammatical errors, again I suspect because of
translation. Having said that, the quality of the LO documentation is a lot
better than some I've seen.

Is it worth while producing our own guidelines here? Googling on "technical
writing guidelines" produces a lot of hits, and it might be worth while
looking at these to see how relevant they are.



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Help-Writer-s-Guidelines-tp4164839p4166888.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Regina,

Thanks Regina. I've already noted this as a bug so I'll attach it there. Thanks 
ever so much for your help and patience with a (LO documentation) beginner.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Friday, November 20, 2015, 3:51:53 PM, you wrote:


Hi Peter, 

ptoye schrieb: 
> Thanks Regina - I got it and installed it. I've now amended the relevant help 
> page. Do I upload the whole page here, or just the bits I changed? Or send 
> it somewhere else? 

This list strips attachments, therefore you cannot attach it here. 

LibreOffice uses its Bugzilla to track bugs, enhancements and feature 
requests. For how to use Bugzilla see 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugReport#Submitting_a_bug

If you do not have a Bugzilla account yet, you need to create one. 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/createaccount.cgi

With using Bugzilla and an account there, your changes get the correct 
license automatically. 

"Product" is of cause LibreOffice. 
For changes in the help pages use the component "Documentation". 

I think it is better to attach the whole file. That way others can 
generate a diff file, which is needed in the further work flow. 

Look, whether a bug exists, that already describe the problem. If yes, 
then attach the changed file there. 

If no bug exists, create a new report. When creating a new report the 
form will have a button "Add an attachment". Use that to attach the 
changed file. Do not forget to describe, why the current version of the 
help page is wrong. 

Kind regards 
Regina 








-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email] 
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted 



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Can-I-help-tp4166244p4166908.html
To unsubscribe from Can I help?, click here.
NAML



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Can-I-help-tp4166244p4166923.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Regina,

Thanks. I don't have a Dropbox account, but could probably set one up fairly 
quickly. Or can you send it directly from your own email account - I promise 
not to put it in my address book. Send it to l...@ptoye.com.

Best regards,

Peter
mailto:l...@ptoye.com
www.ptoye.com

-
Wednesday, November 18, 2015, 8:36:13 PM, you wrote:


Hi Peter, 

I notice just, that the attachment was stripped. May I sent you the file 
directly? 

Kind regards 
Regina 


-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [hidden email] 
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted 



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Can-I-help-tp4166244p4166702.html
To unsubscribe from Can I help?, click here.
NAML



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Can-I-help-tp4166244p4166745.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Sorry, Regina, I was referring to the link about Building on Windows. I found
the help files, but rather oddly the Base help files don't seem to be there,
and it's one of those that I need to edit! There's a folder for almost every
other LO application except Base. I'm looking in the
libreoffice-5.1.0.0.alpha1\helpcontent2\source\text folder, which I assume
is correct.



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Can-I-help-tp4166244p4166688.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Thanks Regina, but this is exactly the sort of issue that I mentioned in my
last post. If I have to download ( and learn how to use) Cygwin and Git
before I can even get started, it's an instant turn-off! 

But the link you sent me seems to be for people who want to work on LO
itself - I just want to edit a section in a help page, which is a bit
different. Although I used to be a pretty good programmer, I don't have the
time or inclination to get stuck into modifying LO, much as I'd like to.



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Can-I-help-tp4166244p4166550.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Thanks Sophie. I've looked at the links you sent (some I'd already be given
by other people). It seems rather complicated in that the commands to set up
access to the git system all seem to refer to Unix and I run Windows. I've
never used git before so I hope I don't have to learn a completely new
language just to edit one file. Also I don't have an OpenID account anywhere
as far as I know - all rather discouraging! 



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Can-I-help-tp4166244p4166482.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Re: Can I help?

[ptoye]

Ah - I see. I've installed the help authoring extension, and there's a new
menu item. But now the Documentation/Help wiki article tells me that I have
to set up a document root, which is in my clone of the help git repository -
which of course I don't have. And as I don't know git I can't get much
further!

I'm closing down now for the night - so I won't be able to answer until
tomorrow.



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Can-I-help-tp4166244p4166504.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-documentation] Can I help?

[ptoye]

Can I join the help file development team please? I've submitted a bug
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95542 and can prepare
some replacement text.

I've also noticed some grammatical problems, some of which are widespread
(translation issues?).

CV: I was involved in IT (systems software development, network design and
consultancy) for about 35 years before giving it up professionally about 10
years ago. I use LO and on occasion have to use the help files - some of
which I find need some improvement. My native language is UK English, and I
sometimes get into pedant mode about grammar (warning). Now I'm a pianist,
which is much less wearing on the soul.



-
Peter
--
View this message in context: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Can-I-help-tp4166244.html
Sent from the Documentation mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: documentation+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted