Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Version 4.2, Getting Started Guide, Chapter 3

2014-01-29 Thread Hazel Russman
On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 11:50:42 +1000
Jean Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote:

 I have edited and added to Martin's updates. Some questions remain for
 others to address; comments in file. Some research will be required.
 Also, someone else might notice other things that I missed but need to
 be updated. File is here:
 http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/feedback-lo4.2/gs4-2-ch3-styles-templates/view
 
 --Jean
 
I've added my tuppence-worth and put it into the feedback folder.

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Version 4.2, Getting Started Guide, Chapter 3

2014-01-28 Thread Milos Sramek

Hi,

I've noticed also these:

Page 6:
Figure 1 shows the window for Writer, with Page Styles visible.
-
Figure 1 shows the window for Writer, with Paragraph Styles visible.

Page 15:
2) Navigate to the template that you want to edit. Click once on it to 
activate the file handling controls (see Figure 1). Click Edit. The 
template opens in LibreOffice.


Incorrectt reference to Figure 1. Should be (perhaps) Figure 7

Btw, LO 4.2.0.3 crashes on opening templates for editing. I've just 
submitted a bug report: 
https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=74148


best
Milos


Dňa 2014-01-28 02:50, Jean Weber wrote / napísal(a):

I have edited and added to Martin's updates. Some questions remain for
others to address; comments in file. Some research will be required.
Also, someone else might notice other things that I missed but need to
be updated. File is here:
http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/feedback-lo4.2/gs4-2-ch3-styles-templates/view

--Jean


On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 4:02 AM, Martin Saffron martinsaff...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello

I've uploaded an edited draft of GS4202.  In this version, I've made the all
of the changes listed on the User Guide Tasks page
(https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development/UserGuideTasks).
The draft can be found here:
http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-4.2/gs4203-stylesandtemplates/view

I've also uploaded all the screen captures I have used.  They can be found
here:
http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/gs4201-3-screen-captures/screen_captures/view
These images were captured from LO4.2 beta2 running on Windows 8.1 and were
exported to PNG format using the GIMP.  Window borders have been cropped.

If I have time this week, I will continue noting the changes introduced in
LO4.2 and updating the User Guide Tasks page.

Regards,

Martin

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Version 4.2, Getting Started Guide, Chapter 3

2014-01-27 Thread Jean Weber
I have edited and added to Martin's updates. Some questions remain for
others to address; comments in file. Some research will be required.
Also, someone else might notice other things that I missed but need to
be updated. File is here:
http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/feedback-lo4.2/gs4-2-ch3-styles-templates/view

--Jean


On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 4:02 AM, Martin Saffron martinsaff...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello

 I've uploaded an edited draft of GS4202.  In this version, I've made the all
 of the changes listed on the User Guide Tasks page
 (https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development/UserGuideTasks).
 The draft can be found here:
 http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-4.2/gs4203-stylesandtemplates/view

 I've also uploaded all the screen captures I have used.  They can be found
 here:
 http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/gs4201-3-screen-captures/screen_captures/view
 These images were captured from LO4.2 beta2 running on Windows 8.1 and were
 exported to PNG format using the GIMP.  Window borders have been cropped.

 If I have time this week, I will continue noting the changes introduced in
 LO4.2 and updating the User Guide Tasks page.

 Regards,

 Martin

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Version 4.2 Getting Started Guide

2014-01-10 Thread Martin Saffron

Hello

I've uploaded an edited draft of GS4201, this time using the most 
recent, translation-friendly GS4001 file as a starting point.  The draft 
can be found here:

http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-4.2/gs4201-introducing-libreoffice/view

In this version, I've made the same changes that were made in the 
earlier draft and have also updated screen captures for Figure 1 and 
Figure 10.  These images were captured from LO4.2 beta2 running on 
Windows 8.1.  I've cropped window borders to make them more OS-neutral.  
They were exported to PNG format and can be uploaded if required.


I've marked my initials on the User Tasks Guide 
(https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.2) for chapter 1.  
If I get time over the weekend I will edit and upload chapters 2 and 3.


Regards,

Martin


On 29/12/13 21:02, Jean Weber wrote:

Thanks for this work, Martin. I've just had a quick look at your
additions to the User Guide Tasks page, which are just what we need. I
just hope other people pay attention to them, as well as doing their
own reviewing, when updating the chapter files.

If you, or anyone else, want to start doing updates to the chapter
files, you can use the 4.0 files from here:
http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/published-lo-4.0
or from here: 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications#Getting_Started_with_LibreOffice

Both sets have had Milos's style cleanups applied.

Please put the edited files here (as you did for chapter 1):
http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-4.2

--Jean


On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 3:05 AM, Martin Saffron martinsaff...@gmail.com wrote:

Hello

I've recently had time to look at sections of the Getting Started guide with
a view to updating it to the LO 4.2 branch.

I've taken a look at the first three chapters (of the most recent published
versions edited by Jean) and noted the changes brought about in the Windows
8.1 version of LO 4.2 beta 2.

I did not edit any of the guides directly and upload them as I was unsure
whether to edit the recent versions published by Jean or to make edits to
the auto-formatted versions submitted to the mailing list by Milos.  There
is also the fact that the stable LO 4.2 release may introduce further
changes.

Instead, I've made a detailed list of the aspects that will need updating
upon release of LO 4.2 and noted some of them here:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development/UserGuideTasks

Unfortunately, in submitting the form (as a test) before  adding all the
notes, I have been throttled so am unable to make further changes until the
anti-spam time limit expires.  I have attached an ODT file containing all
the changes so perhaps someone can update the page on my behalf.

I'll continue looking at the Getting Started guide when I get time (leaving
chapters 4, 6, 7 and 8 as noted on the User Guide tasks page above).

Merry Christmas,

Martin



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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Version 4.2 Getting Started Guide

2013-12-29 Thread Jean Weber
Thanks for this work, Martin. I've just had a quick look at your
additions to the User Guide Tasks page, which are just what we need. I
just hope other people pay attention to them, as well as doing their
own reviewing, when updating the chapter files.

If you, or anyone else, want to start doing updates to the chapter
files, you can use the 4.0 files from here:
http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/published-lo-4.0
or from here: 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications#Getting_Started_with_LibreOffice

Both sets have had Milos's style cleanups applied.

Please put the edited files here (as you did for chapter 1):
http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-4.2

--Jean


On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 3:05 AM, Martin Saffron martinsaff...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello

 I've recently had time to look at sections of the Getting Started guide with
 a view to updating it to the LO 4.2 branch.

 I've taken a look at the first three chapters (of the most recent published
 versions edited by Jean) and noted the changes brought about in the Windows
 8.1 version of LO 4.2 beta 2.

 I did not edit any of the guides directly and upload them as I was unsure
 whether to edit the recent versions published by Jean or to make edits to
 the auto-formatted versions submitted to the mailing list by Milos.  There
 is also the fact that the stable LO 4.2 release may introduce further
 changes.

 Instead, I've made a detailed list of the aspects that will need updating
 upon release of LO 4.2 and noted some of them here:
 https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Development/UserGuideTasks

 Unfortunately, in submitting the form (as a test) before  adding all the
 notes, I have been throttled so am unable to make further changes until the
 anti-spam time limit expires.  I have attached an ODT file containing all
 the changes so perhaps someone can update the page on my behalf.

 I'll continue looking at the Getting Started guide when I get time (leaving
 chapters 4, 6, 7 and 8 as noted on the User Guide tasks page above).

 Merry Christmas,

 Martin

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Version 4.2 Getting Started Guide

2013-12-24 Thread Milos Sramek

Hi Martin,

Dňa 2013-12-21 18:05, Martin Saffron wrote / napísal(a):
I did not edit any of the guides directly and upload them as I was 
unsure whether to edit the recent versions published by Jean or to 
make edits to the auto-formatted versions submitted to the mailing 
list by Milos.  There is also the fact that the stable LO 4.2 release 
may introduce further changes. 
you can take the version, which is on the web. Once the 4.2 version is 
finished, I woud like to have a look at its formatting again.


best wishes
Milos

--
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Version 4.2 Getting started guide, Chapter 1

2013-12-09 Thread Milos Sramek

Hi,

please, read below.

Dňa 2013-12-08 01:01, Jean Weber wrote / napísal(a):

On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 8:58 PM, Milos Sramek sramek.mi...@gmail.com wrote:

Dňa 2013-12-07 02:30, Jean Weber wrote / napísal(a):

please, do not use that old version, because meanwhile I've created a new
one: http://ubuntuone.com/0wKYgmWPo7jM03xNeUXqSU.

What is different or new in your new version? I have already gone
through the earlier version and found and corrected some things that I
had not noticed before.
The difference between the old and new clean is that I've improved the 
clean up. It influenced about 5-10 sentences per chapter in comparison 
to the old version.


Also, the clean files have incorrect outline heading levels; they
have the ones for a *book* file, not a *chapter* file, so the tables
of contents are wrong if you update them in a chapter. And the clean
files have incorrect spacing of the chapter title, because they are
using the spacing for a book file, not a chapter file. I fixed these
things too.
It seems that the TOC problem was introduced by my manual editing (no 
idea how, I've just changed the directly formatted text to styles and 
did not do anything with section styles) and not by the script (it 
modifies only content of paragraphs).
So, I've rerun the script on the fresh files. Afterwards, I've visually 
compared the files and updated the TOC (without saving). I did not 
observe any differences - the modified files can be downloaded from 
here: http://ubuntuone.com/5tbEhRZsEm56kPfKjx7stK

I will help, of course. I can clean up also other guides - just let me know
where to start.

Writer Guide, please.
Ok, I've just returned from a hospital after a small hearth surgery and 
should stay for a week at home. So I have plenty of time :D.

We are working on a new template. Our plan is to use the built-in
styles as much as possible, so we plan to replace all the OOo-styles
and LO-styles if we can. Several translators have asked for this
change, and I think it will help when exporting to ePUB and other
formats. Will this also be better for your use? Or do you think it
might cause problems for you?
Any formatting of this kind is OK, except for 'default' styles, as 
OOoDefault - instead, one should rely on the default paragraph style.


The problems are caused by direct formatting and by its removing. This 
is a typical example:

Original:
f0Use /f0f1f2File /f2/f1f3f4/f4/f3f5f6 
Wizards/f6/f5f7 /f7f8on the main menu bar a/f8f9nd 
/f9f10select/f10f11 the type of document /f11f12from the 
context menu./f12


Here, f0.../f0 are placeholders, by which OmegaT simplifies the text 
for translation.
These stand for, for example text:span 
text:style-name=T123.../text:span.

In this segment only f2 is useful, which stands for OOoMenuPath.

Obviously, this is untranslatable, since one should keep the tags.

After clean up, the same segment looks like this:
Use f0File  Wizards/f0 on the main menu bar and select the type of 
document from the context menu.



best
Milos


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Version 4.2 Getting started guide, Chapter 1

2013-12-07 Thread Milos Sramek

Dňa 2013-12-07 02:30, Jean Weber wrote / napísal(a):

Milos, my apologies for not paying more attention to your earlier note
and replying then. I am now downloading your cleaned files, which
should indeed be VERY helpful to us and save us a lot of work. I'll
put them on the ODFAuthors site and let the team know to use them as
the starting point when updating the Getting Started book.

Dear Jean,

thank you for you kind answer. However, please, do not use that old 
version, because meanwhile I've created a new one: 
http://ubuntuone.com/0wKYgmWPo7jM03xNeUXqSU.

Do you plan to clean up other books as well?
I will help, of course. I can clean up also other guides - just let me 
know where to start. What I did was in fact quite simple. I've just 
changed the direct bold to either OOoStrongEmphasis or OOoMenuPath (by 
guessing which one) and similarly italics to OOoEmphasis of OOoKeyStroke 
and then run the script. Maybe, more shoud be done than this, for 
example there are two sets of styles defined now - the OOo styles and 
the LO styles. It would perhaps not be bad if each author would use 
character styles with differently colored background - in that case 
incorrect formating would be immediately visible.


best
Milos


PS: The cleanup in fact was done in 4 steps:
1. Set different background colors to the most important character 
styles (OOoMenuPath, OOoStrongEmphasis, OOoEmphasis and OOoKeyStroke, 
...), so that one can see what is improperly formatted
2. Manual change of the directly formatted text to styles. Sometimes 
even whole paragraphs were formatted as OOoMenuPath, but redefined to 
default text.
3. Cleanup of the content.xml file using a python script. The reason why 
this step was necessary was, that LO keeps the structure of manual 
formating even if it is removed - it only changes it to a special style, 
which does  not do any formating at all. There were hundreds of these 
special styles defined (labeled Txxx) - that was the reason, why the 
text was not translatable by OmegaT (too many tags, even within words). 
The script removes these styles and also the OOoDefault style (this was 
not used very often, but  caused similar problems in OmegaT as the Txxx 
styles). The cleanup is not perfect, but the text is translatable by 
OmegaT now.
4. Comparison of the modified document with the original using the 
standard LO tool. It compares only content - no changes were observed

--Jean

On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 7:00 AM, Milos Srameksramek.mi...@gmail.com  wrote:

Dear Martin,

as I have already informed on the libreoffice-documentation list, we
currently translate the Getting started guide to Slovak. Currently, about
50% of the text is translated.

We decided to use OmegaT for translation, since it should enable, thanks to
its translation memory, translate new guides using the old translated
guides. We decided to do that this way, since we expected that one day
somebody will start with the 4.2 version :).

The problem with the guide is, that the text is really poorly formatted - it
uses a lot of useless direct formatting, which probably reflects its long
history. Thus, in the original form it is not translatable by OmegaT. To do
that, we had to clean the formatting, which took us tens of hours. Since
CTRM-M does not in fact clear direct formatting, the work was done partially
manually and partially by a script on the XML level. I've sent a message
about that to the list a few months ago, unfortunately with no reaction:
http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/msg16573.html

In the cleaned version all formating is done by means of styles - there is
no direct formating used. Otherwise, the documents are identical. If you use
the cleaned version, it would enable to me, and also to other translators,
to move smoothly to 4.2 - something which is otherwise not possible.

I will be happy to send to you the cleaned version - that one referred to in
my older post is not actual anymore.

Best

Milos



Dňa 2013-12-06 20:02, Martin Saffron wrote / napísal(a):


Hello

I've started to look at sections of the Getting Started guide with a view
to updating it to the 4.2x branch.

I've made minor, preliminary edits to GS4001 and uploaded the chapter to
the ODF Authors site for review and comment.  It can be found here:

http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-4.2/gs4201-introducing-libreoffice/at_download/file

I've identified a few aspects that may need updating upon release of LO
4.2 and noted them in the document.  I also tried to note them at
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.2, but it appears that
I'm unable to save changes.

Time permitting, I will continue through the Getting Started guide
(skipping the chapters 4,6,7 and 8).

Regards,

Martin


--
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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Version 4.2 Getting started guide, Chapter 1

2013-12-07 Thread Jean Weber
On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 8:58 PM, Milos Sramek sramek.mi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Dňa 2013-12-07 02:30, Jean Weber wrote / napísal(a):

 please, do not use that old version, because meanwhile I've created a new
 one: http://ubuntuone.com/0wKYgmWPo7jM03xNeUXqSU.

What is different or new in your new version? I have already gone
through the earlier version and found and corrected some things that I
had not noticed before.

Also, the clean files have incorrect outline heading levels; they
have the ones for a *book* file, not a *chapter* file, so the tables
of contents are wrong if you update them in a chapter. And the clean
files have incorrect spacing of the chapter title, because they are
using the spacing for a book file, not a chapter file. I fixed these
things too.

I can do all of this again if necessary, if the new set of clean
files has important changes in it.

 Do you plan to clean up other books as well?

 I will help, of course. I can clean up also other guides - just let me know
 where to start.

Writer Guide, please.

 What I did was in fact quite simple. I've just changed the
 direct bold to either OOoStrongEmphasis or OOoMenuPath (by guessing which
 one) and similarly italics to OOoEmphasis of OOoKeyStroke and then run the
 script. Maybe, more shoud be done than this, for example there are two sets
 of styles defined now - the OOo styles and the LO styles.

We are working on a new template. Our plan is to use the built-in
styles as much as possible, so we plan to replace all the OOo-styles
and LO-styles if we can. Several translators have asked for this
change, and I think it will help when exporting to ePUB and other
formats. Will this also be better for your use? Or do you think it
might cause problems for you?

--Jean

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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Version 4.2 Getting started guide, Chapter 1

2013-12-06 Thread Milos Sramek

Dear Martin,

as I have already informed on the libreoffice-documentation list, we 
currently translate the Getting started guide to Slovak. Currently, 
about 50% of the text is translated.


We decided to use OmegaT for translation, since it should enable, thanks 
to its translation memory, translate new guides using the old translated 
guides. We decided to do that this way, since we expected that one day 
somebody will start with the 4.2 version :).


The problem with the guide is, that the text is really poorly formatted 
- it uses a lot of useless direct formatting, which probably reflects 
its long history. Thus, in the original form it is not translatable by 
OmegaT. To do that, we had to clean the formatting, which took us tens 
of hours. Since CTRM-M does not in fact clear direct formatting, the 
work was done partially manually and partially by a script on the XML 
level. I've sent a message about that to the list a few months ago, 
unfortunately with no reaction: 
http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/msg16573.html


In the cleaned version all formating is done by means of styles - there 
is no direct formating used. Otherwise, the documents are identical. If 
you use the cleaned version, it would enable to me, and also to other 
translators, to move smoothly to 4.2 - something which is otherwise not 
possible.


I will be happy to send to you the cleaned version - that one referred 
to in my older post is not actual anymore.


Best

Milos



Dňa 2013-12-06 20:02, Martin Saffron wrote / napísal(a):

Hello

I've started to look at sections of the Getting Started guide with a 
view to updating it to the 4.2x branch.


I've made minor, preliminary edits to GS4001 and uploaded the chapter 
to the ODF Authors site for review and comment.  It can be found here:
http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-4.2/gs4201-introducing-libreoffice/at_download/file 



I've identified a few aspects that may need updating upon release of 
LO 4.2 and noted them in the document.  I also tried to note them at 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.2, but it appears 
that I'm unable to save changes.


Time permitting, I will continue through the Getting Started guide 
(skipping the chapters 4,6,7 and 8).


Regards,

Martin




--
Milos Sramek, msrame...@gmail.com


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Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Version 4.2 Getting started guide, Chapter 1

2013-12-06 Thread Jean Weber
Milos, my apologies for not paying more attention to your earlier note
and replying then. I am now downloading your cleaned files, which
should indeed be VERY helpful to us and save us a lot of work. I'll
put them on the ODFAuthors site and let the team know to use them as
the starting point when updating the Getting Started book.

Do you plan to clean up other books as well?

--Jean

On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 7:00 AM, Milos Sramek sramek.mi...@gmail.com wrote:
 Dear Martin,

 as I have already informed on the libreoffice-documentation list, we
 currently translate the Getting started guide to Slovak. Currently, about
 50% of the text is translated.

 We decided to use OmegaT for translation, since it should enable, thanks to
 its translation memory, translate new guides using the old translated
 guides. We decided to do that this way, since we expected that one day
 somebody will start with the 4.2 version :).

 The problem with the guide is, that the text is really poorly formatted - it
 uses a lot of useless direct formatting, which probably reflects its long
 history. Thus, in the original form it is not translatable by OmegaT. To do
 that, we had to clean the formatting, which took us tens of hours. Since
 CTRM-M does not in fact clear direct formatting, the work was done partially
 manually and partially by a script on the XML level. I've sent a message
 about that to the list a few months ago, unfortunately with no reaction:
 http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/msg16573.html

 In the cleaned version all formating is done by means of styles - there is
 no direct formating used. Otherwise, the documents are identical. If you use
 the cleaned version, it would enable to me, and also to other translators,
 to move smoothly to 4.2 - something which is otherwise not possible.

 I will be happy to send to you the cleaned version - that one referred to in
 my older post is not actual anymore.

 Best

 Milos



 Dňa 2013-12-06 20:02, Martin Saffron wrote / napísal(a):

 Hello

 I've started to look at sections of the Getting Started guide with a view
 to updating it to the 4.2x branch.

 I've made minor, preliminary edits to GS4001 and uploaded the chapter to
 the ODF Authors site for review and comment.  It can be found here:

 http://www.odfauthors.org/libreoffice/english/getting-started/draft-lo-4.2/gs4201-introducing-libreoffice/at_download/file

 I've identified a few aspects that may need updating upon release of LO
 4.2 and noted them in the document.  I also tried to note them at
 https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.2, but it appears that
 I'm unable to save changes.

 Time permitting, I will continue through the Getting Started guide
 (skipping the chapters 4,6,7 and 8).

 Regards,

 Martin



 --
 Milos Sramek, msrame...@gmail.com



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