[DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - good or bad?
G7VJR's point of view (ClubLog creator and T32C participant): http://g7vjr.org/2012/06/expedition-leaderboards-good-or-bad/ 73, Paul VE1DX --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - good or bad?
One of my personal yardstick of the goodness of an expedition is NOT the total number of QSOs made as that depends entirely on the number of operators, stations and the duration but I like to look at the TOTAL QSOs made by the NUMBER of OPERATORS and the NUMBER of DAYS taken into account Like: CallTotal QSOs No of Operators No of Days No of QSOs made per operator per day T32C2130063830186 D68C1685913220263 HK0NA 1952922727267 7O6T1620291715 *635* I guess it all depends on the objectives of the expedition work uniques?? work down to the third and fourth tier? max out the QSOs? etc etc. Its just my way of looking and comparing things Tom GM4FDM On 05/06/2012 19:54, Paul M Dunphy wrote: G7VJR's point of view (ClubLog creator and T32C participant): http://g7vjr.org/2012/06/expedition-leaderboards-good-or-bad/ 73, Paul VE1DX --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - good or bad?
I think KQ8M's first comment in response to G7VJR's editorial is on point. Clublog's Leaderboards should be modified to stop counting at 11 band slots. 11 (or 12 if the operation works six meters) allows a station to work the operation on each band plus pick up QSOs on CW, Digital, and voice. Quite frankly, in spite of falling prey to the seduction of high leaderboard numbers a time or two myself, anyone who shows up with more than 14 or 15 band slots is simply a DX HOG. There is simply no excuse for such behavior. N1DG's presentation at Dayton clearly showed the DX HOGs do not provide increased support (contributions with QSL) relative to the number of band slots worked ... even the more QSOs mean more revenue argument falls flat. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/5/2012 2:54 PM, Paul M Dunphy wrote: G7VJR's point of view (ClubLog creator and T32C participant): http://g7vjr.org/2012/06/expedition-leaderboards-good-or-bad/ 73, Paul VE1DX --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - good or bad?
I don't really buy that argument. In the last days of a DXpedition, they're usually begging. Those who couldn't make a QSO probably couldn't make a QSO on a completely clear band anyway. There is only so much you can work with a dipole and 100 watts. And finally, DXing is competitive.You can be a good sport but you don't have to put yourself at a disadvantage to make others feel better. Ryan, N2RJ On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV w...@subich.com wrote: I think KQ8M's first comment in response to G7VJR's editorial is on point. Clublog's Leaderboards should be modified to stop counting at 11 band slots. 11 (or 12 if the operation works six meters) allows a station to work the operation on each band plus pick up QSOs on CW, Digital, and voice. Quite frankly, in spite of falling prey to the seduction of high leaderboard numbers a time or two myself, anyone who shows up with more than 14 or 15 band slots is simply a DX HOG. There is simply no excuse for such behavior. N1DG's presentation at Dayton clearly showed the DX HOGs do not provide increased support (contributions with QSL) relative to the number of band slots worked ... even the more QSOs mean more revenue argument falls flat. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/5/2012 2:54 PM, Paul M Dunphy wrote: G7VJR's point of view (ClubLog creator and T32C participant): http://g7vjr.org/2012/06/expedition-leaderboards-good-or-bad/ 73, Paul VE1DX --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- -- Ryan A. Jairam --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - good or bad?
I disagree. The last day of the Yemen DXpediition was the first day I heard them well here in Colorado. There were still lots of callers. Fortunately, I didn't need it, so I never got into the pileups. ARRL created this mess when they expanded DXCC to include individual band awards. There are plenty of little guns and those who don't live in propagationally-favorable locations left out in the cold on many DXpeditions because many guys have the need and are sufficiently bored with their lives to chase them on 15+ band-modes. Barry W2UP On 6/5/2012 2:39 PM, Ryan Jairam wrote: I don't really buy that argument. In the last days of a DXpedition, they're usually begging. Those who couldn't make a QSO probably couldn't make a QSO on a completely clear band anyway. There is only so much you can work with a dipole and 100 watts. And finally, DXing is competitive.You can be a good sport but you don't have to put yourself at a disadvantage to make others feel better. Ryan, N2RJ On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Joe Subich, W4TVw...@subich.com wrote: I think KQ8M's first comment in response to G7VJR's editorial is on point. Clublog's Leaderboards should be modified to stop counting at 11 band slots. 11 (or 12 if the operation works six meters) allows a station to work the operation on each band plus pick up QSOs on CW, Digital, and voice. Quite frankly, in spite of falling prey to the seduction of high leaderboard numbers a time or two myself, anyone who shows up with more than 14 or 15 band slots is simply a DX HOG. There is simply no excuse for such behavior. N1DG's presentation at Dayton clearly showed the DX HOGs do not provide increased support (contributions with QSL) relative to the number of band slots worked ... even the more QSOs mean more revenue argument falls flat. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/5/2012 2:54 PM, Paul M Dunphy wrote: G7VJR's point of view (ClubLog creator and T32C participant): http://g7vjr.org/2012/06/expedition-leaderboards-good-or-bad/ 73, Paul VE1DX --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - good or bad?
On 6/5/2012 4:39 PM, Ryan Jairam wrote: I don't really buy that argument. In the last days of a DXpedition, they're usually begging. You obviously did not attempt to work 7O6T on RTTY. The Europeans monopolized the few available RTTY band slots and even chased 7O6T off RTTY many times in the last days of the DXpedition. Quite simply, Leaderboards as currently structured encourage rampant DX Hoggery and have no place in radiosport. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/5/2012 4:39 PM, Ryan Jairam wrote: I don't really buy that argument. In the last days of a DXpedition, they're usually begging. Those who couldn't make a QSO probably couldn't make a QSO on a completely clear band anyway. There is only so much you can work with a dipole and 100 watts. And finally, DXing is competitive.You can be a good sport but you don't have to put yourself at a disadvantage to make others feel better. Ryan, N2RJ On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Joe Subich, W4TVw...@subich.com wrote: I think KQ8M's first comment in response to G7VJR's editorial is on point. Clublog's Leaderboards should be modified to stop counting at 11 band slots. 11 (or 12 if the operation works six meters) allows a station to work the operation on each band plus pick up QSOs on CW, Digital, and voice. Quite frankly, in spite of falling prey to the seduction of high leaderboard numbers a time or two myself, anyone who shows up with more than 14 or 15 band slots is simply a DX HOG. There is simply no excuse for such behavior. N1DG's presentation at Dayton clearly showed the DX HOGs do not provide increased support (contributions with QSL) relative to the number of band slots worked ... even the more QSOs mean more revenue argument falls flat. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/5/2012 2:54 PM, Paul M Dunphy wrote: G7VJR's point of view (ClubLog creator and T32C participant): http://g7vjr.org/2012/06/expedition-leaderboards-good-or-bad/ 73, Paul VE1DX --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - good or bad?
Someone has pointed out recently that for DXCC requirements, you could get by with 9 QSO's which would cover 160 through 10 meters. You only need one QSO each on CW, SSB and RTTY, so you could either fit them in amongst your 9 QSO's, or make a total of 11 QSO's to satisfy DXCC requirements. The Leaderboards seem to be the things that are inspiring people to make 27 QSO's with the DX. I'm sure some of these stations that are coming out on top of the leadeboards have worked some of these stations previously on some of those band/modes, so it becomes mostly a thing of greed and ego. 73, Zack W9SZ On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV w...@subich.com wrote: On 6/5/2012 4:39 PM, Ryan Jairam wrote: I don't really buy that argument. In the last days of a DXpedition, they're usually begging. You obviously did not attempt to work 7O6T on RTTY. The Europeans monopolized the few available RTTY band slots and even chased 7O6T off RTTY many times in the last days of the DXpedition. Quite simply, Leaderboards as currently structured encourage rampant DX Hoggery and have no place in radiosport. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/5/2012 4:39 PM, Ryan Jairam wrote: I don't really buy that argument. In the last days of a DXpedition, they're usually begging. Those who couldn't make a QSO probably couldn't make a QSO on a completely clear band anyway. There is only so much you can work with a dipole and 100 watts. And finally, DXing is competitive.You can be a good sport but you don't have to put yourself at a disadvantage to make others feel better. Ryan, N2RJ On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Joe Subich, W4TVw...@subich.com wrote: I think KQ8M's first comment in response to G7VJR's editorial is on point. Clublog's Leaderboards should be modified to stop counting at 11 band slots. 11 (or 12 if the operation works six meters) allows a station to work the operation on each band plus pick up QSOs on CW, Digital, and voice. Quite frankly, in spite of falling prey to the seduction of high leaderboard numbers a time or two myself, anyone who shows up with more than 14 or 15 band slots is simply a DX HOG. There is simply no excuse for such behavior. N1DG's presentation at Dayton clearly showed the DX HOGs do not provide increased support (contributions with QSL) relative to the number of band slots worked ... even the more QSOs mean more revenue argument falls flat. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/5/2012 2:54 PM, Paul M Dunphy wrote: G7VJR's point of view (ClubLog creator and T32C participant): http://g7vjr.org/2012/06/**expedition-leaderboards-good-**or-bad/http://g7vjr.org/2012/06/expedition-leaderboards-good-or-bad/ 73, Paul VE1DX --**- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --**- --**- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --**- --**- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --**- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
RE: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - good or bad?
Aw, c'mon Barry, can we please stop automatically blaming EVERYTHING on the ARRL? Even if the individual band certificates, or 5 Band, didn't exist... there would still be induhviduals who would just HAVE to work the DX on every possible band/mode combination they could operate on. There would still be induhviduals who will run as much power as they can to get in the log first. There would still be induhviduals who will work the DX every single day on the same band/mode, just to show off that they can. In short, there will always be DX Hogs. That is an ugly facet of human nature. And I speak as one of the little pistols... sometimes more like a squirt gun. I can still remember more than a few times, when chasing DX for 80/75, that a DX Hog would step all over me. And when asked, the few that responded gave me an answer to why did you do that? that boiled down to because I can, and if you don't like it, tough noogies. There may be more DX Hogs out there today than long ago, but then, there are also more hams, and more DX'ers, out there as well. So the problem may seem to be worse than it ever was, but only in terms of numbers (IMHO), not percentage of poor operators out of total operators. We should concentrate on trying to lead by example, to teach those who are willing to learn how to operate properly. Not assign blame. But the DX Hogs and general purpose lids? There will always be some, because some induhviduals have egos that persuade them to be such. All we can do is try to minimize the damage that they do, and ignore them when we can. Blaming an organization because they expanded an award program upon popular request? C'mon. 73 -Original Message- From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Barry Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 5:04 PM To: rjai...@gmail.com; NJDXA DX Chat Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - good or bad? I disagree. The last day of the Yemen DXpediition was the first day I heard them well here in Colorado. There were still lots of callers. Fortunately, I didn't need it, so I never got into the pileups. ARRL created this mess when they expanded DXCC to include individual band awards. There are plenty of little guns and those who don't live in propagationally-favorable locations left out in the cold on many DXpeditions because many guys have the need and are sufficiently bored with their lives to chase them on 15+ band-modes. Barry W2UP On 6/5/2012 2:39 PM, Ryan Jairam wrote: I don't really buy that argument. In the last days of a DXpedition, they're usually begging. Those who couldn't make a QSO probably couldn't make a QSO on a completely clear band anyway. There is only so much you can work with a dipole and 100 watts. And finally, DXing is competitive.You can be a good sport but you don't have to put yourself at a disadvantage to make others feel better. Ryan, N2RJ On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Joe Subich, W4TVw...@subich.com wrote: I think KQ8M's first comment in response to G7VJR's editorial is on point. Clublog's Leaderboards should be modified to stop counting at 11 band slots. 11 (or 12 if the operation works six meters) allows a station to work the operation on each band plus pick up QSOs on CW, Digital, and voice. Quite frankly, in spite of falling prey to the seduction of high leaderboard numbers a time or two myself, anyone who shows up with more than 14 or 15 band slots is simply a DX HOG. There is simply no excuse for such behavior. N1DG's presentation at Dayton clearly showed the DX HOGs do not provide increased support (contributions with QSL) relative to the number of band slots worked ... even the more QSOs mean more revenue argument falls flat. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/5/2012 2:54 PM, Paul M Dunphy wrote: G7VJR's point of view (ClubLog creator and T32C participant): http://g7vjr.org/2012/06/expedition-leaderboards-good-or-bad/ 73, Paul VE1DX --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
RE: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - good or bad?
I will admit that there are more than a few big gun DXpeditions, the last few years, that I have managed to work on band/mode combos that I didn't need. Most of those QSOs, though, came in the last week to 10 days. If I hear the station on, coming in strong, and not working anyone for minutes at a time. why not? I don't feel that IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION that I'm taking a QSO away from someone else calling, because there isn't anyone else calling. at least that the DX station is hearing. The leaderboards may be encouraging some DX Hogs in that it lets them easily show off that they can work 'em all. Apples to oranges, though, most of the DX Hogs would do so anyway, even if the leaderboards didn't exist. The problem isn't the leaderboards. It's the DX Hogs other lids. The leaderboards only illustrate the problem, they don't create it. IMHO 73 _ From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Zack Widup Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 5:59 PM To: dx-chat Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Leaderboards - good or bad? Someone has pointed out recently that for DXCC requirements, you could get by with 9 QSO's which would cover 160 through 10 meters. You only need one QSO each on CW, SSB and RTTY, so you could either fit them in amongst your 9 QSO's, or make a total of 11 QSO's to satisfy DXCC requirements. The Leaderboards seem to be the things that are inspiring people to make 27 QSO's with the DX. I'm sure some of these stations that are coming out on top of the leadeboards have worked some of these stations previously on some of those band/modes, so it becomes mostly a thing of greed and ego. 73, Zack W9SZ On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV w...@subich.com wrote: On 6/5/2012 4:39 PM, Ryan Jairam wrote: I don't really buy that argument. In the last days of a DXpedition, they're usually begging. You obviously did not attempt to work 7O6T on RTTY. The Europeans monopolized the few available RTTY band slots and even chased 7O6T off RTTY many times in the last days of the DXpedition. Quite simply, Leaderboards as currently structured encourage rampant DX Hoggery and have no place in radiosport. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/5/2012 4:39 PM, Ryan Jairam wrote: I don't really buy that argument. In the last days of a DXpedition, they're usually begging. Those who couldn't make a QSO probably couldn't make a QSO on a completely clear band anyway. There is only so much you can work with a dipole and 100 watts. And finally, DXing is competitive.You can be a good sport but you don't have to put yourself at a disadvantage to make others feel better. Ryan, N2RJ On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Joe Subich, W4TVw...@subich.com wrote: I think KQ8M's first comment in response to G7VJR's editorial is on point. Clublog's Leaderboards should be modified to stop counting at 11 band slots. 11 (or 12 if the operation works six meters) allows a station to work the operation on each band plus pick up QSOs on CW, Digital, and voice. Quite frankly, in spite of falling prey to the seduction of high leaderboard numbers a time or two myself, anyone who shows up with more than 14 or 15 band slots is simply a DX HOG. There is simply no excuse for such behavior. N1DG's presentation at Dayton clearly showed the DX HOGs do not provide increased support (contributions with QSL) relative to the number of band slots worked ... even the more QSOs mean more revenue argument falls flat. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 6/5/2012 2:54 PM, Paul M Dunphy wrote: G7VJR's point of view (ClubLog creator and T32C participant): http://g7vjr.org/2012/06/expedition-leaderboards-good-or-bad/ 73, Paul VE1DX --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This
