Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Mike Cox  wrote:

> If CONFIG:PB CTRL is set to .01 in CW mode, then, per the function
> description in the K3 Owners Manual (pp. 62 in Manual Revision A1), you
> will be limited to the Shift/Width controls mode only. Change PB CTRL to
> .05 and you will also enable LO/HI cut on the controls.


The K3 Owners Manual is up to revision D10 dated 8/24/2011 with errata
D10-8 dated 3/31/2015.

Seeing as both are PDF's and fully searchable, probably need to be current
as opposed to something dated back in 2007. Only 8 years out of date.

However, the warning you quoted is still in the newer text.

For myself, not being able to do 10 Hz shift is an issue for CW and the
very steep skirts using a roofing filter with DSP width set to the roofer
width. If the guy up or down gets a little too loud, just a dime Hz shift
or two or three will drop him right out. 50 Hz is way too coarse for that.

Also for normal QSK (not the one which turns on the display +), which *is*
very good with the new synthesizers, I do NOT lose RIT or XIT in QSK. With
the new syns regular QSK is more than adequate to hear between dits or
letters at 30 wpm on the RX antenna.

This is in spite of my having the Microham box and it's built-in WinKey
functions set for unbroken PTT assert to the Alpha 8410 on the TX antenna
until a word space has gone by. The K3 can't do RX/TX one way and it's PTT
out another.

So what I have is the very best of the fast and the very best of the slow
at the same time. I only hear in the right ear on the subRX when the 8410
is keyed, and I hear in between the dits. This allows me to hear when
someone calls late, just a bit after I start calling CQ again on a run.

Best of the fast.

But even though the K3 is cycling TX/RX very fast the 8410 is not banging
the vacuum relay to death trying to follow 30 wpm dits. 30 wpm QSK *does*
significantly shorten relay time to failure. Contesting, I've worn some out
in less than a year.

So to save me that, the Microham box keys up the amp with it's PTT before
it starts the key sequence to the K3. That's because *both* the paddle and
the PC logging program stream go to the Microham box which in turn keys the
K3. I also have inverted the Microham PTT keying to control 12 volt supply
to protect some sensitive stuff, better off not powered during TX.

Best of the slow.

Gotta say, if you don't have the new syns in your K3, that is an absolute
top-run improvement.

73, Guy K2AV
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Mike Cox]

If CONFIG:PB CTRL is set to .01 in CW mode, then, per the function 
description in the K3 Owners Manual (pp. 62 in Manual Revision A1), you 
will be limited to the Shift/Width controls mode only. Change PB CTRL to 
.05 and you will also enable LO/HI cut on the controls.


73,
Mike

On 2/26/2017 10:13 AM, Ted Bryant wrote:

In playing with Bob N6TV's suggested settings, I've discovered that on CW,
neither the Shift->LO Cut nor the Width->HI Cut controls change functions
when tapped.  They appear fixed at SHIFT and WIDTH.  Tapping them merely
displays their current setting.  On SSB, they change and work as expected.
Is there a parameter setting somewhere that affects this?  I've looked
through the release notes but see nothing.

Using the latest firmware: 5.57

73, Ted W4NZ




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Ted Bryant]

Hello F5VJC,

 

Yes!  You are correct.  Thank you.  That solved the problem.

 

73, Ted W4NZ

 

 

From: F5vjc [mailto:foxfive@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 11:48 AM
To: Ted Bryant
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

 

CONFIG PB CTRL SHIFT (set to .05) if set to .01 will cause this.

 

73 F5VJC

 

 

On 26 February 2017 at 16:13, Ted Bryant <w...@comcast.net> wrote:

In playing with Bob N6TV's suggested settings, I've discovered that on CW,
neither the Shift->LO Cut nor the Width->HI Cut controls change functions
when tapped.  They appear fixed at SHIFT and WIDTH.  Tapping them merely
displays their current setting.  On SSB, they change and work as expected.
Is there a parameter setting somewhere that affects this?  I've looked
through the release notes but see nothing.

Using the latest firmware: 5.57

73, Ted W4NZ


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 1:54 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
> For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for contesting
with a K3 and large CW pileups.

Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But they're
all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, so it's
very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor and added
paragraphs.

73, Jim K9YC

-   -   -  -   -   -   -

First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.Set CONFIG:TECH
MD OFF when finished, to eliminate distracting values from accidentally
appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)

*AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.May not work with all headphones.OK on Heil.

*AF LIM 20* -- Only takes effect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)

*AGC DCY Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups

*AGC HLD 0.05* -- Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).Reduces AGC-induced IMD,
recommended for pileups.Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using AGC-F.

*AGC PLS NOR* -- Loud static pulses do not pump AGC

*AGC SLP 010*-- A pretty "flat" AGC response curve.I may move this lower
since pileups of loud guys can blend together, but I like this setting
because it saves my ears.

*AGC THR 010* -- AGC kicks in at about S-8.Signals lower than THR behave as
they would with AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)

*AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
faster.Faster can be bad.

*AGC -S 20*-- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =

faster.Faster can be bad.

*RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all signals and band noise are
very low (e.g. 10m)

*AF GAIN* never higher than 3 O'Clock

*AFX OFF*

*NR OFF*

*NB OFF*

*RIT OFF*

*XIT OFF*


FL1 to FL5 BW set to match labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider or
narrower.

Use *AGC-F* or *AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.

Use *AGC-S* for SSB.

CW Pitch 500 (or to taste), IF shift centered (on CW)

500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW

2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move IF
SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)

Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift, rather
than NOR (hold) button

*PREamp ON* for 15m and up, *PREamp OFF* for all other bands

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Ted Bryant]

Thanks  Joe, Randy and Ken.  But the CW QRQ says it is OFF.  There is no "+"
showing, either.

73, Ted W4NZ


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Joe
Subich, W4TV
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 10:29 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush


Do you have QRQ mode selected (+ showing in the display)?

 From the Owner's Manual, page 54: > Filter passband SHIFT/LOCUT/HICUT
cannot be used when CW QRQ is in
> effect.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2/26/2017 10:13 AM, Ted Bryant wrote:
> In playing with Bob N6TV's suggested settings, I've discovered that on CW,
> neither the Shift->LO Cut nor the Width->HI Cut controls change functions
> when tapped.  They appear fixed at SHIFT and WIDTH.  Tapping them merely
> displays their current setting.  On SSB, they change and work as expected.
> Is there a parameter setting somewhere that affects this?  I've looked
> through the release notes but see nothing.
>
> Using the latest firmware: 5.57
>
> 73, Ted W4NZ
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
> Brown
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 1:54 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush
>
> On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
>> For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for
contesting
> with a K3 and large CW pileups.
>
> Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But they're
> all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, so it's
> very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor and added
> paragraphs.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> -   -   -  -   -   -   -
>
> First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.Set
CONFIG:TECH
> MD OFF when finished, to eliminate distracting values from accidentally
> appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)
>
> *AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.May not work with all headphones.OK on
Heil.
>
> *AF LIM 20* -- Only takes effect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)
>
> *AGC DCY Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups
>
> *AGC HLD 0.05* -- Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).Reduces AGC-induced IMD,
> recommended for pileups.Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using AGC-F.
>
> *AGC PLS NOR* -- Loud static pulses do not pump AGC
>
> *AGC SLP 010*-- A pretty "flat" AGC response curve.I may move this lower
> since pileups of loud guys can blend together, but I like this setting
> because it saves my ears.
>
> *AGC THR 010* -- AGC kicks in at about S-8.Signals lower than THR behave
as
> they would with AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)
>
> *AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher
=
> faster.Faster can be bad.
>
> *AGC -S 20*-- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
> faster.Faster can be bad.
>
> *RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all signals and band noise are
> very low (e.g. 10m)
>
> *AF GAIN* never higher than 3 O'Clock
>
> *AFX OFF*
>
> *NR OFF*
>
> *NB OFF*
>
> *RIT OFF*
>
> *XIT OFF*
>
>
> FL1 to FL5 BW set to match labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider or
> narrower.
>
> Use *AGC-F* or *AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.
>
> Use *AGC-S* for SSB.
>
> CW Pitch 500 (or to taste), IF shift centered (on CW)
>
> 500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW
>
> 2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move IF
> SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)
>
> Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift, rather
> than NOR (hold) button
>
> *PREamp ON* for 15m and up, *PREamp OFF* for all other bands
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message
> delivered to w...@comcast.net
>
> __
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>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Ken K3IU]

I am using 5.57 here and tapping either the shift or width 
knobs causes the function to cycle between Lo/HI and 
Shift/Width with the Green LEDs to switch as well.

73, Ken K3IU
~~
On 2/26/2017 10:13 AM, Ted Bryant wrote:

In playing with Bob N6TV's suggested settings, I've discovered that on CW,
neither the Shift->LO Cut nor the Width->HI Cut controls change functions
when tapped.  They appear fixed at SHIFT and WIDTH.  Tapping them merely
displays their current setting.  On SSB, they change and work as expected.
Is there a parameter setting somewhere that affects this?  I've looked
through the release notes but see nothing.

Using the latest firmware: 5.57

73, Ted W4NZ


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 1:54 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:

For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for contesting

with a K3 and large CW pileups.

Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But they're
all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, so it's
very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor and added
paragraphs.

73, Jim K9YC

-   -   -  -   -   -   -

First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.Set CONFIG:TECH
MD OFF when finished, to eliminate distracting values from accidentally
appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)

*AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.May not work with all headphones.OK on Heil.

*AF LIM 20* -- Only takes effect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)

*AGC DCY Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups

*AGC HLD 0.05* -- Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).Reduces AGC-induced IMD,
recommended for pileups.Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using AGC-F.

*AGC PLS NOR* -- Loud static pulses do not pump AGC

*AGC SLP 010*-- A pretty "flat" AGC response curve.I may move this lower
since pileups of loud guys can blend together, but I like this setting
because it saves my ears.

*AGC THR 010* -- AGC kicks in at about S-8.Signals lower than THR behave as
they would with AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)

*AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
faster.Faster can be bad.

*AGC -S 20*-- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
faster.Faster can be bad.

*RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all signals and band noise are
very low (e.g. 10m)

*AF GAIN* never higher than 3 O'Clock

*AFX OFF*

*NR OFF*

*NB OFF*

*RIT OFF*

*XIT OFF*


FL1 to FL5 BW set to match labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider or
narrower.

Use *AGC-F* or *AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.

Use *AGC-S* for SSB.

CW Pitch 500 (or to taste), IF shift centered (on CW)

500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW

2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move IF
SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)

Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift, rather
than NOR (hold) button

*PREamp ON* for 15m and up, *PREamp OFF* for all other bands

__
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Do you have QRQ mode selected (+ showing in the display)?

From the Owner's Manual, page 54: > Filter passband SHIFT/LOCUT/HICUT 
cannot be used when CW QRQ is in

effect.


73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2/26/2017 10:13 AM, Ted Bryant wrote:

In playing with Bob N6TV's suggested settings, I've discovered that on CW,
neither the Shift->LO Cut nor the Width->HI Cut controls change functions
when tapped.  They appear fixed at SHIFT and WIDTH.  Tapping them merely
displays their current setting.  On SSB, they change and work as expected.
Is there a parameter setting somewhere that affects this?  I've looked
through the release notes but see nothing.

Using the latest firmware: 5.57

73, Ted W4NZ


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 1:54 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:

For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for contesting

with a K3 and large CW pileups.

Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But they're
all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, so it's
very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor and added
paragraphs.

73, Jim K9YC

-   -   -  -   -   -   -

First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.Set CONFIG:TECH
MD OFF when finished, to eliminate distracting values from accidentally
appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)

*AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.May not work with all headphones.OK on Heil.

*AF LIM 20* -- Only takes effect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)

*AGC DCY Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups

*AGC HLD 0.05* -- Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).Reduces AGC-induced IMD,
recommended for pileups.Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using AGC-F.

*AGC PLS NOR* -- Loud static pulses do not pump AGC

*AGC SLP 010*-- A pretty "flat" AGC response curve.I may move this lower
since pileups of loud guys can blend together, but I like this setting
because it saves my ears.

*AGC THR 010* -- AGC kicks in at about S-8.Signals lower than THR behave as
they would with AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)

*AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
faster.Faster can be bad.

*AGC -S 20*-- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
faster.Faster can be bad.

*RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all signals and band noise are
very low (e.g. 10m)

*AF GAIN* never higher than 3 O'Clock

*AFX OFF*

*NR OFF*

*NB OFF*

*RIT OFF*

*XIT OFF*


FL1 to FL5 BW set to match labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider or
narrower.

Use *AGC-F* or *AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.

Use *AGC-S* for SSB.

CW Pitch 500 (or to taste), IF shift centered (on CW)

500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW

2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move IF
SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)

Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift, rather
than NOR (hold) button

*PREamp ON* for 15m and up, *PREamp OFF* for all other bands

__
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Ted Bryant]

In playing with Bob N6TV's suggested settings, I've discovered that on CW,
neither the Shift->LO Cut nor the Width->HI Cut controls change functions
when tapped.  They appear fixed at SHIFT and WIDTH.  Tapping them merely
displays their current setting.  On SSB, they change and work as expected.
Is there a parameter setting somewhere that affects this?  I've looked
through the release notes but see nothing.

Using the latest firmware: 5.57

73, Ted W4NZ


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 1:54 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
> For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for contesting
with a K3 and large CW pileups.

Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But they're
all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, so it's
very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor and added
paragraphs.

73, Jim K9YC

-   -   -  -   -   -   -

First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.Set CONFIG:TECH
MD OFF when finished, to eliminate distracting values from accidentally
appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)

*AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.May not work with all headphones.OK on Heil.

*AF LIM 20* -- Only takes effect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)

*AGC DCY Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups

*AGC HLD 0.05* -- Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).Reduces AGC-induced IMD,
recommended for pileups.Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using AGC-F.

*AGC PLS NOR* -- Loud static pulses do not pump AGC

*AGC SLP 010*-- A pretty "flat" AGC response curve.I may move this lower
since pileups of loud guys can blend together, but I like this setting
because it saves my ears.

*AGC THR 010* -- AGC kicks in at about S-8.Signals lower than THR behave as
they would with AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)

*AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
faster.Faster can be bad.

*AGC -S 20*-- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
faster.Faster can be bad.

*RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all signals and band noise are
very low (e.g. 10m)

*AF GAIN* never higher than 3 O'Clock

*AFX OFF*

*NR OFF*

*NB OFF*

*RIT OFF*

*XIT OFF*


FL1 to FL5 BW set to match labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider or
narrower.

Use *AGC-F* or *AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.

Use *AGC-S* for SSB.

CW Pitch 500 (or to taste), IF shift centered (on CW)

500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW

2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move IF
SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)

Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift, rather
than NOR (hold) button

*PREamp ON* for 15m and up, *PREamp OFF* for all other bands

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Peter Eijlander (PA0PJE)]

You are right, Matt.
No HTML, no attachments
73,
Peter - PA0PJE

Op 24-02-17 om 20:42 schreef Matt Zilmer:

The problem might be that the reflector doesn't pass HTML, just text.
I'm not sure about this, but remember reading it somewhere.

73,

matt W6NIA

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[N2TK, Tony]

I concur Ed. On SSB when running stations I will only mess with the HI CUT.
Wil crank it down to 2.1. The intelligibility is still good. Sometimes I
forget and just leave it at that setting for the entire contest. It makes it
so you can squeeze in between two other strong stations so that all three
can keep running. Will give it a go again next weekend at KP2M with K3 #311.

73,
N2TK, Tony

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ed
Muns
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 7:14 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

I concur with most, but not all, of N6TV's recommendations below.  If we all
agreed on all the CONFIG parameters they wouldn't need to be variable!

One that I particularly disagree with is how to narrow the IF bandwidth in
SSB mode.  The recommendation to narrow the bandwidth and then lower the IF
Shift is unnecessarily cumbersome on SSB.  After going through these
gyrations, you'll find that the LO CUT is where it was before you started.
So, all that needs to be done to narrow the SSB IF bandwidth is simply
decrease HI CUT.  One quick, easy operation and the audio is entirely
intelligible throughout the adjustment.

Ed W0YK
___ 

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: 24 February, 2017 10:54
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
> For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for 
> contesting
with a K3 and large CW pileups.

Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But they're
all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, so it's
very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor and added
paragraphs.

73, Jim K9YC

-   -   -  -   -   -   -

First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.Set CONFIG:TECH
MD OFF when finished, to eliminate distracting values from accidentally
appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)

*AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.May not work with all headphones.OK on Heil.

*AF LIM 20* -- Only takes effect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)

*AGC DCY Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups

*AGC HLD 0.05* -- Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).Reduces AGC-induced IMD,
recommended for pileups.Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using AGC-F.

*AGC PLS NOR* -- Loud static pulses do not pump AGC

*AGC SLP 010*-- A pretty "flat" AGC response curve.I may move this lower
since pileups of loud guys can blend together, but I like this setting
because it saves my ears.

*AGC THR 010* -- AGC kicks in at about S-8.Signals lower than THR behave as
they would with AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)

*AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
faster.Faster can be bad.

*AGC -S 20*-- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
faster.Faster can be bad.

*RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all signals and band noise are
very low (e.g. 10m)

*AF GAIN* never higher than 3 O'Clock

*AFX OFF*

*NR OFF*

*NB OFF*

*RIT OFF*

*XIT OFF*


FL1 to FL5 BW set to match labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider or
narrower.

Use *AGC-F* or *AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.

Use *AGC-S* for SSB.

CW Pitch 500 (or to taste), IF shift centered (on CW)

500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW

2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move IF
SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)

Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift, rather
than NOR (hold) button

*PREamp ON* for 15m and up, *PREamp OFF* for all other bands

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

I generally run AGC off and the rf gain is never fully open.  I will 
continue to play with settings.


My settings were fairly close but I will try these.

Thanks for the guide!

W0MU


On 2/24/2017 12:54 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for 
contesting with a K3 and large CW pileups.


Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But 
they're all run together in his email with no paragraphs or 
punctuation, so it's very hard to read. I copied his settings into a 
word processor and added paragraphs.


73, Jim K9YC

-   -   -  -   -   -   -

First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.Set 
CONFIG:TECH MD OFF when finished, to eliminate distracting values from 
accidentally appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)


*AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.May not work with all headphones.OK on 
Heil.


*AF LIM 20* -- Only takes effect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)

*AGC DCY Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups

*AGC HLD 0.05* -- Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).Reduces AGC-induced IMD, 
recommended for pileups.Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using 
AGC-F.


*AGC PLS NOR* -- Loud static pulses do not pump AGC

*AGC SLP 010*-- A pretty "flat" AGC response curve.I may move this 
lower since pileups of loud guys can blend together, but I like this 
setting because it saves my ears.


*AGC THR 010* -- AGC kicks in at about S-8.Signals lower than THR 
behave as they would with AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)


*AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast AGC decay rate (recovery 
time).Higher = faster.Faster can be bad.


*AGC –S 20*-- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery 
time).Higher = faster.Faster can be bad.


*RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all signals and band noise 
are very low (e.g. 10m)


*AF GAIN* never higher than 3 O'Clock

*AFX OFF*

*NR OFF*

*NB OFF*

*RIT OFF*

*XIT OFF*


FL1 to FL5 BW set to match labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider 
or narrower.


Use *AGC-F* or *AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.

Use *AGC-S* for SSB.

CW Pitch 500 (or to taste), IF shift centered (on CW)

500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW

2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must 
move IF SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)


Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift, 
rather than NOR (hold) button


*PREamp ON* for 15m and up, *PREamp OFF* for all other bands

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Ed Muns]

I concur with most, but not all, of N6TV's recommendations below.  If we all
agreed on all the CONFIG parameters they wouldn't need to be variable!

One that I particularly disagree with is how to narrow the IF bandwidth in
SSB mode.  The recommendation to narrow the bandwidth and then lower the IF
Shift is unnecessarily cumbersome on SSB.  After going through these
gyrations, you'll find that the LO CUT is where it was before you started.
So, all that needs to be done to narrow the SSB IF bandwidth is simply
decrease HI CUT.  One quick, easy operation and the audio is entirely
intelligible throughout the adjustment.

Ed W0YK
___ 

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: 24 February, 2017 10:54
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
> For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for contesting
with a K3 and large CW pileups.

Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But 
they're all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, 
so it's very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor 
and added paragraphs.

73, Jim K9YC

-   -   -  -   -   -   -

First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.Set 
CONFIG:TECH MD OFF when finished, to eliminate distracting values from 
accidentally appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)

*AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.May not work with all headphones.OK on Heil.

*AF LIM 20* -- Only takes effect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)

*AGC DCY Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups

*AGC HLD 0.05* -- Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).Reduces AGC-induced IMD, 
recommended for pileups.Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using AGC-F.

*AGC PLS NOR* -- Loud static pulses do not pump AGC

*AGC SLP 010*-- A pretty "flat" AGC response curve.I may move this lower 
since pileups of loud guys can blend together, but I like this setting 
because it saves my ears.

*AGC THR 010* -- AGC kicks in at about S-8.Signals lower than THR behave 
as they would with AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)

*AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast AGC decay rate (recovery 
time).Higher = faster.Faster can be bad.

*AGC -S 20*-- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher 
= faster.Faster can be bad.

*RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all signals and band noise 
are very low (e.g. 10m)

*AF GAIN* never higher than 3 O'Clock

*AFX OFF*

*NR OFF*

*NB OFF*

*RIT OFF*

*XIT OFF*


FL1 to FL5 BW set to match labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider 
or narrower.

Use *AGC-F* or *AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.

Use *AGC-S* for SSB.

CW Pitch 500 (or to taste), IF shift centered (on CW)

500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW

2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move 
IF SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)

Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift, 
rather than NOR (hold) button

*PREamp ON* for 15m and up, *PREamp OFF* for all other bands

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Charlie T, K3ICH]

My email from Jim has each parameter on a separate line with double spacing
between each descriptive comment.

It looks fine on my printer.

73, Charlie k3ICH



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob
Wilson, N6TV
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 2:32 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Jim Brown <j...@audiosystemsgroup.com>
wrote:

> On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
>
>> For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for 
>> contesting with a K3 and large CW pileups.
>>
>
> Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But 
> they're all run together in his email with no paragraphs or 
> punctuation, so it's very hard to read. I copied his settings into a 
> word processor and added paragraphs.


Thanks Jim,

I'm new to this reflector, so I'm puzzled by the misformatting.  I made my
post using the web interface (Nabble), carefully formatting the HTML with
the supplied editor.  It looked fine in Preview, and still looks good in the
"View this message in context" HTML link at the bottom of the email, but it
really looks awful in the plain text email.

Try this:

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Receiver-mush-td7627277.html#a762732
3

Some may want to bookmark this direct link above

73,
Bob, N6TV
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Don Wilhelm]

That is a very good list to combat crowded band conditions and allow 
copy of weak signals near stronger signals.


For the last few items on that list, you may want to consider 
alternatives for selecting the filters and the use of SHIFT.  It is a 
matter of "operating style" - I know Bob is comfortable with his, but I 
would like to present something a bit different for those not yet 
'ingrained' in their operating habits.


If you use the SHIFT and WIDTH knobs in CW, the filters will change as 
you move the WIDTH knob - this is an alternative to using the XFIL 
button.  Only seldom do you have touch the shift, but it may be handy 
for moving an offending signal out of the passband.  Normally SHIFT 
would be set to your preferred sidetone pitch.


For SSB, tap the SHIFT or WIDTH knob to get the LO CUT/HI Cut LEDs to 
illuminate - then you can narrow the passband with the LO CUT and HI CUT 
knobs - no need to change the SHIFT for pleasing audio, it will happen 
automatically.


You cannot cut the LO end drastically (only up to about 550Hz) before 
the signal intelligibility is affected, but you can cut the HI end 
substantially (down to about 1500Hz) before the signal becomes unreadable.


I find this method much easier than fiddling with the SHIFT in SSB and 
the XFIL button.  I never touch the XFIL button, the filters follow the 
width of the DSP no matter what the mode.


73,
Don W3FPR



On 2/24/2017 1:54 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:

2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move
IF SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)

Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift,
rather than NOR (hold) button


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Matt Zilmer]

The problem might be that the reflector doesn't pass HTML, just text.  
I'm not sure about this, but remember reading it somewhere.


73,

matt W6NIA


On 2/24/2017 11:31 AM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Jim Brown 
wrote:


On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:


For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for
contesting with a K3 and large CW pileups.


Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But they're
all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, so it's
very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor and added
paragraphs.


Thanks Jim,

I'm new to this reflector, so I'm puzzled by the misformatting.  I made my
post using the web interface (Nabble), carefully formatting the HTML with
the supplied editor.  It looked fine in Preview, and still looks good in
the "View this message in context" HTML link at the bottom of the email,
but it really looks awful in the plain text email.

Try this:

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Receiver-mush-td7627277.html#a7627323

Some may want to bookmark this direct link above

73,
Bob, N6TV
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--
Pull the curtain, Fred.  It won't be long now.

Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
[Shiraz]

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Jim Brown 
wrote:

> On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
>
>> For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for
>> contesting with a K3 and large CW pileups.
>>
>
> Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But they're
> all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, so it's
> very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor and added
> paragraphs.


Thanks Jim,

I'm new to this reflector, so I'm puzzled by the misformatting.  I made my
post using the web interface (Nabble), carefully formatting the HTML with
the supplied editor.  It looked fine in Preview, and still looks good in
the "View this message in context" HTML link at the bottom of the email,
but it really looks awful in the plain text email.

Try this:

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Receiver-mush-td7627277.html#a7627323

Some may want to bookmark this direct link above

73,
Bob, N6TV
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Jim Brown]

On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:

For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for contesting with 
a K3 and large CW pileups.


Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But 
they're all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, 
so it's very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor 
and added paragraphs.


73, Jim K9YC

-   -   -  -   -   -   -

First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.Set 
CONFIG:TECH MD OFF when finished, to eliminate distracting values from 
accidentally appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)


*AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.May not work with all headphones.OK on Heil.

*AF LIM 20* -- Only takes effect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)

*AGC DCY Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups

*AGC HLD 0.05* -- Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).Reduces AGC-induced IMD, 
recommended for pileups.Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using AGC-F.


*AGC PLS NOR* -- Loud static pulses do not pump AGC

*AGC SLP 010*-- A pretty "flat" AGC response curve.I may move this lower 
since pileups of loud guys can blend together, but I like this setting 
because it saves my ears.


*AGC THR 010* -- AGC kicks in at about S-8.Signals lower than THR behave 
as they would with AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)


*AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast AGC decay rate (recovery 
time).Higher = faster.Faster can be bad.


*AGC –S 20*-- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher 
= faster.Faster can be bad.


*RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all signals and band noise 
are very low (e.g. 10m)


*AF GAIN* never higher than 3 O'Clock

*AFX OFF*

*NR OFF*

*NB OFF*

*RIT OFF*

*XIT OFF*


FL1 to FL5 BW set to match labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider 
or narrower.


Use *AGC-F* or *AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.

Use *AGC-S* for SSB.

CW Pitch 500 (or to taste), IF shift centered (on CW)

500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW

2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move 
IF SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)


Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift, 
rather than NOR (hold) button


*PREamp ON* for 15m and up, *PREamp OFF* for all other bands

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

w0mu wrote
> What happens when you turn the AGC off and ride the rf gain?  Do these
> setting still have some effect or should they be set up differently?I
> assume when you use 12/8/soft most people are using AGC-F?

Ken,
When you experienced the mush, did you have the AGC ON, but the RF Gain set
to max, as most people usually do with any other modern radio?  In my
experience, setting RF GAIN max *will cause unacceptable pileup mush in the
K3*, even if you use optimal AGC settings.*
When you can't pull apart a pileup, just back off the RF Gain until some
stations start to stand out.  You can leave the AGC ON all the time.
For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for contesting
with a K3 and large CW pileups.  Others have also reported success with
these.
First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.  Set
CONFIG:TECH MD OFF *when finished*, to eliminate distracting values from
accidentally appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)
*AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.  May not work with all headphones.  OK on
Heil.*AF LIM 20* -- Only takes affect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)*AGC DCY
Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups*AGC HLD 0.05* --
Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).  Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for
pileups.  Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using AGC-F.*AGC PLS NOR* --
Loud static pulses do not pump AGC*AGC SLP 010*  -- A pretty "flat" AGC
response curve.  I may move this lower since pileups of loud guys can blend
together, but I like this setting because it saves my ears.*AGC THR 010* --
AGC kicks in at about S-8.  Signals lower than THR behave as they would with
AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)*AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast
AGC decay rate (recovery time).  Higher = faster.  Faster can be bad.*AGC -S
20*  -- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery time).  Higher =
faster.  Faster can be bad.*RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all
signals and band noise are very low (e.g. 10m)*AF GAIN* never higher than 3
O'Clock*AFX OFF**NR OFF**NB OFF**RIT OFF**XIT OFF*FL1 to FL5 BW set to match
labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider or narrower.Use *AGC-F* or
*AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.Use *AGC-S* for SSB.CW Pitch 500
(or to taste)IF shift centered (on CW)500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW2.8
kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move IF SHIFT
lower for pleasing audio*)Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and
reset the IF shift, rather than NOR (hold) button*PREamp ON* for 15m and up,
*PREamp OFF* for all other bands
Hope this helps.
73,
Bob, N6TV



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

The hardware AGC engages at about -45 (S9 + 20 dB).  That is most
certainly the final flattening you are seeing in the transfer
characteristic.

Otherwise the slope for each slp setting will generate roughly parallel
transfer curves from the threshold point (witness the parallel curves
for all of the SLP 15 cases as well as for Thr 8, SLP 7 and THR 15,
SLP 7).  K8ZOA produced similar curves showing parallel behavior with
SLP held constant as the threshold is changed.  See:
  <http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/elecraft_k3_agc_and_s-meter.htm>

Jack also derived charts showing the change in output (audio) level
per 10 dB of input (RF) level for each value of slope (SLP) and the
signal level for  AGC Threshold (THR).  That information can be found
in the same article.  Unfortunately, Jack's data is from very early
firmware and was not repeated after the firmware was never updated to
include values for THR greater than 8.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2/23/2017 2:58 PM, Cady, Fred wrote:

http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information/agc-4-51


The transfer characteristic is pretty linear from an input signal of nearly 
-120 dBm to about -45 dBm with AGC off.  Signals above that are being clipped 
by some other non-linear process, probably the hardware AGC.I don't 
remember if I had the AF LIM on when I took these data.

Cheers,

Fred KE7X




From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of W0MU Mike Fatchett 
<w...@w0mu.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:08 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

What happens when you turn the AGC off and ride the rf gain?  Do these
setting still have some effect or should they be set up differently?

I assume when you use 12/8/soft most people are using AGC-F?


On 2/22/2017 1:54 PM, Irma Linas wrote:

Hi everybody,

Following the advice in one of the posts here, I have changed the AGC
settings on my K3+ ( new sync and IO boards as per Elecraft mods kit
turning the old K3 actually into K3S). I've put the AGC THR to 12, AGS SLP
to 8, AGC DCY to SOFT in the Config menu.
Whaw! The efffect was immediate ,very obvious and pleasant! The strong
signals were strong, the weak were weak , but there was no pile-up mush!
What was especially of great importance for me - the long time annoying
problem of receiver hiss and humm when receiving on narrow band 250 Hz
filter was gone! Before, when switching the narrow filter on on weak
signals on the noisy band the signal actually was totally covered by the
increased noise in the filter. I think now it was due to the AGC reacting
to the noise and amplifying it in the narrow band mode because of the too
low AGC THR setting. When the threashhold was increased, the AGC stopped
equalizing the noise and only work on the signal. The result was awsome!
You switch the 250 hz roofing filter on and all the noise and interfering
stns are gone, and the signal you want is there! It could be a very loud
one or a weak one , but it is there and the noise is not!
I recommend everybody to try out this and experiment with the AGC settings
on your K3 radios!
73 de Linas LY2H
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Cady, Fred]

http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information/agc-4-51


The transfer characteristic is pretty linear from an input signal of nearly 
-120 dBm to about -45 dBm with AGC off.  Signals above that are being clipped 
by some other non-linear process, probably the hardware AGC.I don't 
remember if I had the AF LIM on when I took these data.

Cheers,

Fred KE7X




From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of W0MU Mike 
Fatchett <w...@w0mu.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:08 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

What happens when you turn the AGC off and ride the rf gain?  Do these
setting still have some effect or should they be set up differently?

I assume when you use 12/8/soft most people are using AGC-F?


On 2/22/2017 1:54 PM, Irma Linas wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> Following the advice in one of the posts here, I have changed the AGC
> settings on my K3+ ( new sync and IO boards as per Elecraft mods kit
> turning the old K3 actually into K3S). I've put the AGC THR to 12, AGS SLP
> to 8, AGC DCY to SOFT in the Config menu.
> Whaw! The efffect was immediate ,very obvious and pleasant! The strong
> signals were strong, the weak were weak , but there was no pile-up mush!
> What was especially of great importance for me - the long time annoying
> problem of receiver hiss and humm when receiving on narrow band 250 Hz
> filter was gone! Before, when switching the narrow filter on on weak
> signals on the noisy band the signal actually was totally covered by the
> increased noise in the filter. I think now it was due to the AGC reacting
> to the noise and amplifying it in the narrow band mode because of the too
> low AGC THR setting. When the threashhold was increased, the AGC stopped
> equalizing the noise and only work on the signal. The result was awsome!
> You switch the 250 hz roofing filter on and all the noise and interfering
> stns are gone, and the signal you want is there! It could be a very loud
> one or a weak one , but it is there and the noise is not!
> I recommend everybody to try out this and experiment with the AGC settings
> on your K3 radios!
> 73 de Linas LY2H
> __
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

What happens when you turn the AGC off and ride the rf gain?  Do these 
setting still have some effect or should they be set up differently?


I assume when you use 12/8/soft most people are using AGC-F?


On 2/22/2017 1:54 PM, Irma Linas wrote:

Hi everybody,

Following the advice in one of the posts here, I have changed the AGC
settings on my K3+ ( new sync and IO boards as per Elecraft mods kit
turning the old K3 actually into K3S). I've put the AGC THR to 12, AGS SLP
to 8, AGC DCY to SOFT in the Config menu.
Whaw! The efffect was immediate ,very obvious and pleasant! The strong
signals were strong, the weak were weak , but there was no pile-up mush!
What was especially of great importance for me - the long time annoying
problem of receiver hiss and humm when receiving on narrow band 250 Hz
filter was gone! Before, when switching the narrow filter on on weak
signals on the noisy band the signal actually was totally covered by the
increased noise in the filter. I think now it was due to the AGC reacting
to the noise and amplifying it in the narrow band mode because of the too
low AGC THR setting. When the threashhold was increased, the AGC stopped
equalizing the noise and only work on the signal. The result was awsome!
You switch the 250 hz roofing filter on and all the noise and interfering
stns are gone, and the signal you want is there! It could be a very loud
one or a weak one , but it is there and the noise is not!
I recommend everybody to try out this and experiment with the AGC settings
on your K3 radios!
73 de Linas LY2H
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Cady, Fred]

Perhaps what I should have said is that the slope of the gain curve for a given 
value of SLP changes as THR gets higher.  See the curve at 
http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information/agc-4-51

As you can see, when THR is 20, the curve for SLP=15, SLP=7, and SLP=0 are 
virtually identical.  For lower THR levels, you can see the affect of different 
SLP values.


Cheers,

Fred




From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of ab2tc 
<ab...@arrl.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 8:59 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

Hi Fred,

I think that's fairly easy to explain. *Below* threshold the AGC does not
act at all so the SLP settings *should* have no effect. It comes into effect
as soon as signal rises above threshold.

AB2 TC - Knut


Cady, Fred-2 wrote
> Thanks Ian I was about to point out those AGC data but you beat me to it.
>
> To emphasize the comments on SLP a bit, SLP = 0 gives you the best
> discrimination between signals of different strength ABOVE the THR level.
> When working a pileup I want that.  Setting SLP=15  is a flat slope and
> makes signals of different level sound the same.  You might want that for
> general rag chewing.  However, since version 4.51, higher THR levels also
> affect SLP.  For high THR, SLP=0 and SLP=15 are virtually the same. Alan
> explained that once but I'm not sure why that is so.
>
>
> BTW, it is easy to make macros to switch between different THR/SLP values
> for different operating conditions.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fred KE7X
>
>
> For all KE7X books (and other information) see
> www.ke7x.comhttp://www.ke7x.com<http://www.ke7x.comhttp://www.ke7x.com>;.
>
>
> snip>





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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[ab2tc]

Hi Fred,

I think that's fairly easy to explain. *Below* threshold the AGC does not
act at all so the SLP settings *should* have no effect. It comes into effect
as soon as signal rises above threshold.

AB2 TC - Knut


Cady, Fred-2 wrote
> Thanks Ian I was about to point out those AGC data but you beat me to it.
> 
> To emphasize the comments on SLP a bit, SLP = 0 gives you the best
> discrimination between signals of different strength ABOVE the THR level. 
> When working a pileup I want that.  Setting SLP=15  is a flat slope and
> makes signals of different level sound the same.  You might want that for
> general rag chewing.  However, since version 4.51, higher THR levels also
> affect SLP.  For high THR, SLP=0 and SLP=15 are virtually the same. Alan
> explained that once but I'm not sure why that is so.
> 
> 
> BTW, it is easy to make macros to switch between different THR/SLP values
> for different operating conditions.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Fred KE7X
> 
> 
> For all KE7X books (and other information) see
> www.ke7x.comhttp://www.ke7x.com;.
> 
> 
> snip>





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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Mush

[Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP]

I had a problem with clicks on return to receive with older firmware, 
quite a while back. Make sure you have the latest FW. Wayne fixed a bug 
which made a big improvement.


73,
Vic, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 22 Feb 2017 22:06, Ed G wrote:


When I change the AGC settings to those recommended to minimize the mush:

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR).

It seems to my ears that I am hearing louder clicks when the K3 switches
back to receive (CW of course). I know the clicks were a problem lots of
folks commented on a few years ago.

--Ed--

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Mush

[Ed G]

When I change the AGC settings to those recommended to minimize the mush:

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8 

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less 

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR). 

It seems to my ears that I am hearing louder clicks when the K3 switches
back to receive (CW of course). I know the clicks were a problem lots of
folks commented on a few years ago.

--Ed--



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Ignacy]

I experienced the mush as well and then rode the RF gain.

The problem is due to AGC reacting way too fast when in FAST. It seems that
higher HLD should solve the issue but it does not. I am wondering whether
HLD is applicable to AGC SLOW only? If so, the other choice is to reprogram
AGC SLOW, as K2AV does. Perhaps it completely solves the problem, as Guys
writes that he uses the fast AGC only during QRN. 

I am not sure whether AGC is mode specific as AGC slow needs to be really
slower for SSB and casual operation. If AGC is not mode specific, this means
reprogramming AGC SLOW before and after every contest. 

Ignacy, NO9E



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Drew AF2Z]

Yes, I have assigned SLP & THR to M1 tap & M1 hold. Then tap or hold M1 
and dial in the SLP or THR value as needed.



73,
Drew
AF2Z


On 02/22/17 12:07, Cady, Fred wrote:

Thanks Ian I was about to point out those AGC data but you beat me to it.

To emphasize the comments on SLP a bit, SLP = 0 gives you the best 
discrimination between signals of different strength ABOVE the THR level.  When 
working a pileup I want that.  Setting SLP=15  is a flat slope and makes 
signals of different level sound the same.  You might want that for general rag 
chewing.  However, since version 4.51, higher THR levels also affect SLP.  For 
high THR, SLP=0 and SLP=15 are virtually the same. Alan explained that once but 
I'm not sure why that is so.


BTW, it is easy to make macros to switch between different THR/SLP values for 
different operating conditions.


Cheers,

Fred KE7X


For all KE7X books (and other information) see 
www.ke7x.com<http://www.ke7x.com>.




From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of Ian White 
<gm3...@ifwtech.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 12:42 AM
To: 'W0MU Mike Fatchett'; 'Elecraft Reflector'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

Re-posting from April 2016, and earlier:

73 from Ian GM3SEK


***

The factory default AGC THReshold for the K3 and K3S is very, very low.
Measurements by KE7X [1] have shown that the default setting of THR=5
corresponds to an AGC onset at less than S3, whereas competing rigs have
a threshold of S7 or even higher. This very low AGC threshold is what
allows the AGC to be activated by band noise.

Elecraft's factory defaults of THR=5 and SLP=12 compress all signals
above the AGC threshold into a very narrow range of audio output levels
[see the measurements by KE7X]. This makes for comfortable
broadcast-style listening - but there is price to be paid. The default
settings tend to hide the real-life differences in the strengths of
incoming signals - important differences that DXers and contesters
*need* to hear, in order to pick individual signals out of a pileup.

Following complaints from DXers, DXpeditioners and contesters about this
so-called "pileup mush", and following further series of measurements by
KE7X, Elecraft eventually did increase the available range of AGC
THReshold settings (the v4.51 firmware upgrade).

Following the release of FW v4.51, the consensus within the
[K3-contesting] Yahoo group about the most important settings for DXing
and contesting has been as follows.

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8 (from default = 5) and preferably to
12, and then take some time to become re-accustomed to the increased
range of audio levels [2]. (Some users recommend as high as 14, if your
ears can handle it.)

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less (from default = 12). Lower SLP
settings allow stronger signals to sound somewhat louder, and thus more
realistic, but the range of variation will be partly determined by the
THR setting already made; so always experiment with THR first, and with
SLP afterwards.

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR). The User Manual claims that "The
SOFT setting can reduce IMD caused by traditional AGC, and is especially
useful in 'pileup' conditions, in some cases making it unnecessary to
turn AGC off."

The settings recommended above have essentially solved the problem of
"pileup mush" for those who have tried them... but regrettably, Elecraft
has done almost nothing to make DXers and contesters  aware that such
changes are possible.

More than 3 years after the firmware release notes boasted that v4.51
"greatly improves signal clarity in pile-ups and other high-noise or
dense-signal situations, especially with threshold set to 12 or higher",
that information is *still* missing from the User Manual. There is also
no information on how to create different 'profiles' of AGC settings for
different types of users.

Meanwhile, Elecraft's factory AGC defaults remain exactly as they were,
still optimized apparently for comfortable 'listening', while many DXers
and contesters remain unaware that their K3/K3S could actually be *so*
much better.



[1] http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information

[2] It is important to give any increased AGC THReshold setting an
extended trial. To anyone accustomed to an artificially restricted range
of audio signal levels, a higher setting will initially sound quite
'aggressive' - even though the new setting is much closer to real life.






-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
W0MU Mike Fatchett
Sent: 22 February 2017 00:39
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

I can run with 400 or 250hz filters.

I have tried it with AGC fast, slow off etc.

I just think this is something that most people just never see. This

was

a major point of discussion a while b

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Cady, Fred]

Thanks Ian I was about to point out those AGC data but you beat me to it.

To emphasize the comments on SLP a bit, SLP = 0 gives you the best 
discrimination between signals of different strength ABOVE the THR level.  When 
working a pileup I want that.  Setting SLP=15  is a flat slope and makes 
signals of different level sound the same.  You might want that for general rag 
chewing.  However, since version 4.51, higher THR levels also affect SLP.  For 
high THR, SLP=0 and SLP=15 are virtually the same. Alan explained that once but 
I'm not sure why that is so.


BTW, it is easy to make macros to switch between different THR/SLP values for 
different operating conditions.


Cheers,

Fred KE7X


For all KE7X books (and other information) see 
www.ke7x.com<http://www.ke7x.com>.




From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of Ian White 
<gm3...@ifwtech.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 12:42 AM
To: 'W0MU Mike Fatchett'; 'Elecraft Reflector'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

Re-posting from April 2016, and earlier:

73 from Ian GM3SEK


***

The factory default AGC THReshold for the K3 and K3S is very, very low.
Measurements by KE7X [1] have shown that the default setting of THR=5
corresponds to an AGC onset at less than S3, whereas competing rigs have
a threshold of S7 or even higher. This very low AGC threshold is what
allows the AGC to be activated by band noise.

Elecraft's factory defaults of THR=5 and SLP=12 compress all signals
above the AGC threshold into a very narrow range of audio output levels
[see the measurements by KE7X]. This makes for comfortable
broadcast-style listening - but there is price to be paid. The default
settings tend to hide the real-life differences in the strengths of
incoming signals - important differences that DXers and contesters
*need* to hear, in order to pick individual signals out of a pileup.

Following complaints from DXers, DXpeditioners and contesters about this
so-called "pileup mush", and following further series of measurements by
KE7X, Elecraft eventually did increase the available range of AGC
THReshold settings (the v4.51 firmware upgrade).

Following the release of FW v4.51, the consensus within the
[K3-contesting] Yahoo group about the most important settings for DXing
and contesting has been as follows.

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8 (from default = 5) and preferably to
12, and then take some time to become re-accustomed to the increased
range of audio levels [2]. (Some users recommend as high as 14, if your
ears can handle it.)

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less (from default = 12). Lower SLP
settings allow stronger signals to sound somewhat louder, and thus more
realistic, but the range of variation will be partly determined by the
THR setting already made; so always experiment with THR first, and with
SLP afterwards.

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR). The User Manual claims that "The
SOFT setting can reduce IMD caused by traditional AGC, and is especially
useful in 'pileup' conditions, in some cases making it unnecessary to
turn AGC off."

The settings recommended above have essentially solved the problem of
"pileup mush" for those who have tried them... but regrettably, Elecraft
has done almost nothing to make DXers and contesters  aware that such
changes are possible.

More than 3 years after the firmware release notes boasted that v4.51
"greatly improves signal clarity in pile-ups and other high-noise or
dense-signal situations, especially with threshold set to 12 or higher",
that information is *still* missing from the User Manual. There is also
no information on how to create different 'profiles' of AGC settings for
different types of users.

Meanwhile, Elecraft's factory AGC defaults remain exactly as they were,
still optimized apparently for comfortable 'listening', while many DXers
and contesters remain unaware that their K3/K3S could actually be *so*
much better.



[1] http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information

[2] It is important to give any increased AGC THReshold setting an
extended trial. To anyone accustomed to an artificially restricted range
of audio signal levels, a higher setting will initially sound quite
'aggressive' - even though the new setting is much closer to real life.





>-Original Message-
>From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
>W0MU Mike Fatchett
>Sent: 22 February 2017 00:39
>To: Elecraft Reflector
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush
>
>I can run with 400 or 250hz filters.
>
>I have tried it with AGC fast, slow off etc.
>
>I just think this is something that most people just never see. This
was
>a major point of discussion a while back.  I guess it is just the way
>the radio is.  I will have to try another rig to see if I notice the
>same effects.
>
>

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

Thanks.

My threshhold was at 8  I have moved it up to 12.  Slope was zero but I 
change it all the time hoping for a miracle!  HI!


I am going to have to borrow another rig when I get back and see if I 
see the same things on another brand.


W0MU


On 2/22/2017 1:42 AM, Ian White wrote:

Re-posting from April 2016, and earlier:

73 from Ian GM3SEK


***

The factory default AGC THReshold for the K3 and K3S is very, very low.
Measurements by KE7X [1] have shown that the default setting of THR=5
corresponds to an AGC onset at less than S3, whereas competing rigs have
a threshold of S7 or even higher. This very low AGC threshold is what
allows the AGC to be activated by band noise.

Elecraft's factory defaults of THR=5 and SLP=12 compress all signals
above the AGC threshold into a very narrow range of audio output levels
[see the measurements by KE7X]. This makes for comfortable
broadcast-style listening - but there is price to be paid. The default
settings tend to hide the real-life differences in the strengths of
incoming signals - important differences that DXers and contesters
*need* to hear, in order to pick individual signals out of a pileup.

Following complaints from DXers, DXpeditioners and contesters about this
so-called "pileup mush", and following further series of measurements by
KE7X, Elecraft eventually did increase the available range of AGC
THReshold settings (the v4.51 firmware upgrade).

Following the release of FW v4.51, the consensus within the
[K3-contesting] Yahoo group about the most important settings for DXing
and contesting has been as follows.

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8 (from default = 5) and preferably to
12, and then take some time to become re-accustomed to the increased
range of audio levels [2]. (Some users recommend as high as 14, if your
ears can handle it.)

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less (from default = 12). Lower SLP
settings allow stronger signals to sound somewhat louder, and thus more
realistic, but the range of variation will be partly determined by the
THR setting already made; so always experiment with THR first, and with
SLP afterwards.

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR). The User Manual claims that "The
SOFT setting can reduce IMD caused by traditional AGC, and is especially
useful in 'pileup' conditions, in some cases making it unnecessary to
turn AGC off."
  
The settings recommended above have essentially solved the problem of

"pileup mush" for those who have tried them... but regrettably, Elecraft
has done almost nothing to make DXers and contesters  aware that such
changes are possible.
  
More than 3 years after the firmware release notes boasted that v4.51

"greatly improves signal clarity in pile-ups and other high-noise or
dense-signal situations, especially with threshold set to 12 or higher",
that information is *still* missing from the User Manual. There is also
no information on how to create different 'profiles' of AGC settings for
different types of users.

Meanwhile, Elecraft's factory AGC defaults remain exactly as they were,
still optimized apparently for comfortable 'listening', while many DXers
and contesters remain unaware that their K3/K3S could actually be *so*
much better.



[1] http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information

[2] It is important to give any increased AGC THReshold setting an
extended trial. To anyone accustomed to an artificially restricted range
of audio signal levels, a higher setting will initially sound quite
'aggressive' - even though the new setting is much closer to real life.






-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
W0MU Mike Fatchett
Sent: 22 February 2017 00:39
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

I can run with 400 or 250hz filters.

I have tried it with AGC fast, slow off etc.

I just think this is something that most people just never see. This

was

a major point of discussion a while back.  I guess it is just the way
the radio is.  I will have to try another rig to see if I notice the
same effects.

In a pileup there is no offending station they are all calling me.

I was just curious if other contesters or DXpeditioners settings might
be and if they are still seeing this issue.

W0MU



On 2/21/2017 8:48 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Mike,

Think about it - if there are multiple signals in the passband, the
AGC will respond to the strongest, there is just no way around that

fact.

If the signals can be separated by the DSP, and one is really strong,
that strong station may be activating the Hardware AGC. The only
solution for the latter is a more narrow roofing filter - put the
offending strong signal out of the passband of the roofing filter and
use shift to get your sidetone for the desired signal back in order.

That may be too much "fiddling" for a run station in a contest, but

it

is a viable way to operat

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Richard Ferch]

Actually it's not the 250 Hz roofing filter that is too narrow, it is the
250 Hz DSP filter setting. If you ignore the label on the roofing filter
and configure the K3 to switch the 250 Hz crystal filter in at the 350 Hz
DSP setting, the combination (350 Hz DSP, 250 Hz roofing filter) works fine
for those situations where there is a very strong signal right next door.
The rest of the time I prefer to operate with a 400-450 Hz DSP bandwidth
and a 500 Hz roofing filter.

73,
Rich VE3KI


N1MGO wrote:

I do lots of rtty contesting.  I have found the 400Hz filter to be
just right for rtty.  The 250 is too narrow.  I then narrow the DSP
filter to 300Hz if needed, with the 400Hz Xtal filter in front.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Gordon LaPoint]

Dave,
I do lots of rtty contesting.  I have found the 400Hz filter to be 
just right for rtty.  The 250 is too narrow.  I then narrow the DSP 
filter to 300Hz if needed, with the 400Hz Xtal filter in front.

Gordon - N1MGO

On 02/21/2017 06:27 PM, Dave Fugleberg wrote:

Don, that's a great explanation. I came to the same conclusion in a recent
RTTY contest. I built my K3 with the single stock filter based on advice
from a number of folks to 'just operate for awhile til you get the feel for
what other filters you need'. I think that's sound advice.
Anyhow, I've been generally ok with the standard filter and relying on DSP
filtering to narrow it as needed. However, in the RTTY contest, I often had
issues working weaker stations when strong ones were very close by. It was
easy to see what was going on by watching the P3- I'd start copying a
signal inside the DSP bandwidth, and a strong one would pop up just above
or below that station. Even though I couldn't hear the strong station, the
weak one would go nearly silent as the AGC kicked in due to the strong
signal in the IF passband.
So, I think I've learned that I need a narrower filter for such situations.
I'm thinking a 400hz filter is what I want. Any reason for a different
selection in that scenario?
73 de W0ZF
On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:52 AM Don Wilhelm  wrote:





--
Gordon - N1MGO

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Arie Kleingeld PA3A]

Thanks Ian for bringing all the info back to the list.

My settings: slope 9, thr 12, decay soft, pls nor, hld 0.20 , agc-s 20 
to 30 (depends...)


73,

Arie PA3A


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP]

I remember this, and had forgotten what I set them at. I just looked and 
I see that I have SLP=003 and THR=14! That is practically no AGC at all. 
In contests I sometimes turn up the SLP to protect my ears, but for 
normal DXing this is what I've gotten used to and I like it.


73,
Vic, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 22 Feb 2017 09:42, Ian White wrote:

Re-posting from April 2016, and earlier:

73 from Ian GM3SEK


***

The factory default AGC THReshold for the K3 and K3S is very, very low.
Measurements by KE7X [1] have shown that the default setting of THR=5
corresponds to an AGC onset at less than S3, whereas competing rigs have
a threshold of S7 or even higher. This very low AGC threshold is what
allows the AGC to be activated by band noise.

Elecraft's factory defaults of THR=5 and SLP=12 compress all signals
above the AGC threshold into a very narrow range of audio output levels
[see the measurements by KE7X]. This makes for comfortable
broadcast-style listening - but there is price to be paid. The default
settings tend to hide the real-life differences in the strengths of
incoming signals - important differences that DXers and contesters
*need* to hear, in order to pick individual signals out of a pileup.

Following complaints from DXers, DXpeditioners and contesters about this
so-called "pileup mush", and following further series of measurements by
KE7X, Elecraft eventually did increase the available range of AGC
THReshold settings (the v4.51 firmware upgrade).

Following the release of FW v4.51, the consensus within the
[K3-contesting] Yahoo group about the most important settings for DXing
and contesting has been as follows.

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8 (from default = 5) and preferably to
12, and then take some time to become re-accustomed to the increased
range of audio levels [2]. (Some users recommend as high as 14, if your
ears can handle it.)

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less (from default = 12). Lower SLP
settings allow stronger signals to sound somewhat louder, and thus more
realistic, but the range of variation will be partly determined by the
THR setting already made; so always experiment with THR first, and with
SLP afterwards.

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR). The User Manual claims that "The
SOFT setting can reduce IMD caused by traditional AGC, and is especially
useful in 'pileup' conditions, in some cases making it unnecessary to
turn AGC off."

The settings recommended above have essentially solved the problem of
"pileup mush" for those who have tried them... but regrettably, Elecraft
has done almost nothing to make DXers and contesters  aware that such
changes are possible.

More than 3 years after the firmware release notes boasted that v4.51
"greatly improves signal clarity in pile-ups and other high-noise or
dense-signal situations, especially with threshold set to 12 or higher",
that information is *still* missing from the User Manual. There is also
no information on how to create different 'profiles' of AGC settings for
different types of users.

Meanwhile, Elecraft's factory AGC defaults remain exactly as they were,
still optimized apparently for comfortable 'listening', while many DXers
and contesters remain unaware that their K3/K3S could actually be *so*
much better.



[1] http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information

[2] It is important to give any increased AGC THReshold setting an
extended trial. To anyone accustomed to an artificially restricted range
of audio signal levels, a higher setting will initially sound quite
'aggressive' - even though the new setting is much closer to real life.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Ian White]

Re-posting from April 2016, and earlier:

73 from Ian GM3SEK


***

The factory default AGC THReshold for the K3 and K3S is very, very low.
Measurements by KE7X [1] have shown that the default setting of THR=5
corresponds to an AGC onset at less than S3, whereas competing rigs have
a threshold of S7 or even higher. This very low AGC threshold is what
allows the AGC to be activated by band noise.

Elecraft's factory defaults of THR=5 and SLP=12 compress all signals
above the AGC threshold into a very narrow range of audio output levels
[see the measurements by KE7X]. This makes for comfortable
broadcast-style listening - but there is price to be paid. The default
settings tend to hide the real-life differences in the strengths of
incoming signals - important differences that DXers and contesters
*need* to hear, in order to pick individual signals out of a pileup.

Following complaints from DXers, DXpeditioners and contesters about this
so-called "pileup mush", and following further series of measurements by
KE7X, Elecraft eventually did increase the available range of AGC
THReshold settings (the v4.51 firmware upgrade). 

Following the release of FW v4.51, the consensus within the
[K3-contesting] Yahoo group about the most important settings for DXing
and contesting has been as follows. 

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8 (from default = 5) and preferably to
12, and then take some time to become re-accustomed to the increased
range of audio levels [2]. (Some users recommend as high as 14, if your
ears can handle it.)

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less (from default = 12). Lower SLP
settings allow stronger signals to sound somewhat louder, and thus more
realistic, but the range of variation will be partly determined by the
THR setting already made; so always experiment with THR first, and with
SLP afterwards. 

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR). The User Manual claims that "The
SOFT setting can reduce IMD caused by traditional AGC, and is especially
useful in 'pileup' conditions, in some cases making it unnecessary to
turn AGC off."
 
The settings recommended above have essentially solved the problem of
"pileup mush" for those who have tried them... but regrettably, Elecraft
has done almost nothing to make DXers and contesters  aware that such
changes are possible. 
 
More than 3 years after the firmware release notes boasted that v4.51
"greatly improves signal clarity in pile-ups and other high-noise or
dense-signal situations, especially with threshold set to 12 or higher",
that information is *still* missing from the User Manual. There is also
no information on how to create different 'profiles' of AGC settings for
different types of users.

Meanwhile, Elecraft's factory AGC defaults remain exactly as they were,
still optimized apparently for comfortable 'listening', while many DXers
and contesters remain unaware that their K3/K3S could actually be *so*
much better. 



[1] http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information

[2] It is important to give any increased AGC THReshold setting an
extended trial. To anyone accustomed to an artificially restricted range
of audio signal levels, a higher setting will initially sound quite
'aggressive' - even though the new setting is much closer to real life. 





>-Original Message-
>From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
>W0MU Mike Fatchett
>Sent: 22 February 2017 00:39
>To: Elecraft Reflector
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush
>
>I can run with 400 or 250hz filters.
>
>I have tried it with AGC fast, slow off etc.
>
>I just think this is something that most people just never see. This
was
>a major point of discussion a while back.  I guess it is just the way
>the radio is.  I will have to try another rig to see if I notice the
>same effects.
>
>In a pileup there is no offending station they are all calling me.
>
>I was just curious if other contesters or DXpeditioners settings might
>be and if they are still seeing this issue.
>
>W0MU
>
>
>
>On 2/21/2017 8:48 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Mike,
>>
>> Think about it - if there are multiple signals in the passband, the
>> AGC will respond to the strongest, there is just no way around that
fact.
>> If the signals can be separated by the DSP, and one is really strong,
>> that strong station may be activating the Hardware AGC. The only
>> solution for the latter is a more narrow roofing filter - put the
>> offending strong signal out of the passband of the roofing filter and
>> use shift to get your sidetone for the desired signal back in order.
>>
>> That may be too much "fiddling" for a run station in a contest, but
it
>> is a viable way to operate when trying to copy a weak station working
>> close to a strong station.
>>
>>

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

I can run with 400 or 250hz filters.

I have tried it with AGC fast, slow off etc.

I just think this is something that most people just never see. This was 
a major point of discussion a while back.  I guess it is just the way 
the radio is.  I will have to try another rig to see if I notice the 
same effects.


In a pileup there is no offending station they are all calling me.

I was just curious if other contesters or DXpeditioners settings might 
be and if they are still seeing this issue.


W0MU



On 2/21/2017 8:48 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Mike,

Think about it - if there are multiple signals in the passband, the 
AGC will respond to the strongest, there is just no way around that fact.
If the signals can be separated by the DSP, and one is really strong, 
that strong station may be activating the Hardware AGC. The only 
solution for the latter is a more narrow roofing filter - put the 
offending strong signal out of the passband of the roofing filter and 
use shift to get your sidetone for the desired signal back in order.


That may be too much "fiddling" for a run station in a contest, but it 
is a viable way to operate when trying to copy a weak station working 
close to a strong station.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/21/2017 9:25 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:

We noticed again during the contest hat when 3 or 4 stations called, all
those signals would be flattened to the same level. Once you got to
where one or two stations were calling the signal level would pop up
substantially.

I have played endlessly with slope and threshold with little effect.

My K3 has the new syn boards as well and filters from 2.8 to 2.5.
Latest firmware etc.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Ken G Kopp]

I'm pretty much full time CW and rarely leave the 400 Hz filter.

73

K0PP

On Feb 21, 2017 16:52, "Don Wilhelm"  wrote:

Dave,

Yes, a 400Hz filter will work well for RTTY (and CW too).

73,
Don W3FPR


On 2/21/2017 6:27 PM, Dave Fugleberg wrote:

> Don, that's a great explanation. I came to the same conclusion in a recent
> RTTY contest. I built my K3 with the single stock filter based on advice
> from a number of folks to 'just operate for awhile til you get the feel for
> what other filters you need'. I think that's sound advice.
> Anyhow, I've been generally ok with the standard filter and relying on DSP
> filtering to narrow it as needed. However, in the RTTY contest, I often had
> issues working weaker stations when strong ones were very close by. It was
> easy to see what was going on by watching the P3- I'd start copying a
> signal inside the DSP bandwidth, and a strong one would pop up just above
> or below that station. Even though I couldn't hear the strong station, the
> weak one would go nearly silent as the AGC kicked in due to the strong
> signal in the IF passband.
> So, I think I've learned that I need a narrower filter for such
> situations. I'm thinking a 400hz filter is what I want. Any reason for a
> different selection in that scenario?
> 73 de W0ZF
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:52 AM Don Wilhelm  > wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> Think about it - if there are multiple signals in the passband,
> the AGC
> will respond to the strongest, there is just no way around that fact.
> If the signals can be separated by the DSP, and one is really strong,
> that strong station may be activating the Hardware AGC.  The only
> solution for the latter is a more narrow roofing filter - put the
> offending strong signal out of the passband of the roofing filter and
> use shift to get your sidetone for the desired signal back in order.
>
> That may be too much "fiddling" for a run station in a contest, but it
> is a viable way to operate when trying to copy a weak station working
> close to a strong station.
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Don Wilhelm]

Dave,

Yes, a 400Hz filter will work well for RTTY (and CW too).

73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/21/2017 6:27 PM, Dave Fugleberg wrote:
Don, that's a great explanation. I came to the same conclusion in a 
recent RTTY contest. I built my K3 with the single stock filter based 
on advice from a number of folks to 'just operate for awhile til you 
get the feel for what other filters you need'. I think that's sound 
advice.
Anyhow, I've been generally ok with the standard filter and relying on 
DSP filtering to narrow it as needed. However, in the RTTY contest, I 
often had issues working weaker stations when strong ones were very 
close by. It was easy to see what was going on by watching the P3- I'd 
start copying a signal inside the DSP bandwidth, and a strong one 
would pop up just above or below that station. Even though I couldn't 
hear the strong station, the weak one would go nearly silent as the 
AGC kicked in due to the strong signal in the IF passband.
So, I think I've learned that I need a narrower filter for such 
situations. I'm thinking a 400hz filter is what I want. Any reason for 
a different selection in that scenario?

73 de W0ZF
On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:52 AM Don Wilhelm > wrote:


Mike,

Think about it - if there are multiple signals in the passband,
the AGC
will respond to the strongest, there is just no way around that fact.
If the signals can be separated by the DSP, and one is really strong,
that strong station may be activating the Hardware AGC.  The only
solution for the latter is a more narrow roofing filter - put the
offending strong signal out of the passband of the roofing filter and
use shift to get your sidetone for the desired signal back in order.

That may be too much "fiddling" for a run station in a contest, but it
is a viable way to operate when trying to copy a weak station working
close to a strong station.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Dave Fugleberg]

Don, that's a great explanation. I came to the same conclusion in a recent
RTTY contest. I built my K3 with the single stock filter based on advice
from a number of folks to 'just operate for awhile til you get the feel for
what other filters you need'. I think that's sound advice.
Anyhow, I've been generally ok with the standard filter and relying on DSP
filtering to narrow it as needed. However, in the RTTY contest, I often had
issues working weaker stations when strong ones were very close by. It was
easy to see what was going on by watching the P3- I'd start copying a
signal inside the DSP bandwidth, and a strong one would pop up just above
or below that station. Even though I couldn't hear the strong station, the
weak one would go nearly silent as the AGC kicked in due to the strong
signal in the IF passband.
So, I think I've learned that I need a narrower filter for such situations.
I'm thinking a 400hz filter is what I want. Any reason for a different
selection in that scenario?
73 de W0ZF
On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:52 AM Don Wilhelm  wrote:

> Mike,
>
> Think about it - if there are multiple signals in the passband, the AGC
> will respond to the strongest, there is just no way around that fact.
> If the signals can be separated by the DSP, and one is really strong,
> that strong station may be activating the Hardware AGC.  The only
> solution for the latter is a more narrow roofing filter - put the
> offending strong signal out of the passband of the roofing filter and
> use shift to get your sidetone for the desired signal back in order.
>
> That may be too much "fiddling" for a run station in a contest, but it
> is a viable way to operate when trying to copy a weak station working
> close to a strong station.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 2/21/2017 9:25 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
> > We noticed again during the contest hat when 3 or 4 stations called, all
> > those signals would be flattened to the same level. Once you got to
> > where one or two stations were calling the signal level would pop up
> > substantially.
> >
> > I have played endlessly with slope and threshold with little effect.
> >
> > My K3 has the new syn boards as well and filters from 2.8 to 2.5.
> > Latest firmware etc.
> >
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Don Wilhelm]

Mike,

Think about it - if there are multiple signals in the passband, the AGC 
will respond to the strongest, there is just no way around that fact.
If the signals can be separated by the DSP, and one is really strong, 
that strong station may be activating the Hardware AGC.  The only 
solution for the latter is a more narrow roofing filter - put the 
offending strong signal out of the passband of the roofing filter and 
use shift to get your sidetone for the desired signal back in order.


That may be too much "fiddling" for a run station in a contest, but it 
is a viable way to operate when trying to copy a weak station working 
close to a strong station.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/21/2017 9:25 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:

We noticed again during the contest hat when 3 or 4 stations called, all
those signals would be flattened to the same level. Once you got to
where one or two stations were calling the signal level would pop up
substantially.

I have played endlessly with slope and threshold with little effect.

My K3 has the new syn boards as well and filters from 2.8 to 2.5.
Latest firmware etc.


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

Sounds like very strong signals with fast agc with its decay set well into
fast range. And if you have stations using spot frequency that will really
muddle them.

I have my fast agc set to its slowest possible decay and my slow agc set to
fastest possible decay. Then I only use the fast in heavy qrn.

73, Guy K2AV

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 9:26 AM W0MU Mike Fatchett  wrote:

> We noticed again during the contest hat when 3 or 4 stations called, all
> those signals would be flattened to the same level. Once you got to
> where one or two stations were calling the signal level would pop up
> substantially.
>
> I have played endlessly with slope and threshold with little effect.
>
> My K3 has the new syn boards as well and filters from 2.8 to 2.5.
> Latest firmware etc.
>
> Are others still seeing this issue?
>
> W0MU
>
>
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