Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Bill Johnson]

Great suggestion.  I do link my VFO's so I need to change that.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> On 
Behalf Of Ralph Parker
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 6:57 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

 >I sometimes find myself switching diversity on and off while trying to break 
 >a pileup when the dx station is particularly weak.
 >The P3 + VGA is helpful in spotting when diversity is on and I can’t hear the 
 >pileup.

When my diversity is in use, I can get by fairly well in deciphering the pileup 
by using the "REV" function.
Then the diversity mode stays on.

VE7XF

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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Bill Johnson]

I use the K-Pod to switch.  I have commands to go to diversity and then one to 
cancel it all. Crude commands at this point but for as little as I use the 
upper bands based on antennas and ability with the sunspot cycle, not on a high 
priority for now, It is relatively quick.  But then I don't chase I only work 
directly on Freq.  Your use might be helped by some macros available on the 
K3(s).  

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> On 
Behalf Of Vic Rosenthal
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 3:36 PM
To: Ralph Parker <ve...@shaw.ca>
Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

Actually, I sometimes find myself switching diversity on and off while trying 
to break a pileup when the dx station is particularly weak. The P3 + VGA is 
helpful in spotting when diversity is on and I can’t hear the pileup.

Vic 4X6GP 

> On 12 Mar 2018, at 22:23, Ralph Parker <ve...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> 
> >But now I need three receivers. Two for diversity and one to scan the pileup.
> 
> K4
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[a45wg]

With respect to Bill, 
in contests - there is no UP - There is QRZ ?? but up UP !!

When life Gets tough in contests 

- Turn the Yagi AWAY !
- Hitt ATT
-Reduce Power 

Regards

Tim, A45WG 

> On Mar 14, 2018, at 10:13 PM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
> 
> I'm going to try to think like an op on a DXpedition, which is hard since 
> I've never been one. I do know that what happens whenever I finish a QSO is 
> an impenetrable wall of sound because there are at least 6 stations, all on 
> that last frequency. Assume I'm operating split with VFO B locked on my 
> transmit frequency. Particularly if I am using automation to send my "TU 
> DX1STA UP" response, I could spend the time that message is being sent, 
> tuning the receiver in my radio to pick a track on the waterfall in a far 
> corner of the pileup. I can now start listening where I might hear something 
> quickly and keep my rate up.
> 
> I do remember one of the big DXpeditions writing on their web site something 
> to the effect of, "Just stay in one place. We'll find you." Of course, with 
> low power and lots of strong stations nearer to the DX, that formula means a 
> long slog.
> 
> 73 Bill AE6JV
> 
> On 3/13/18 at 10:24 PM, wes_n...@triconet.org (Wes Stewart) wrote:
> 
>> None of this works when the DX stations remove all possibility of skill 
>> making a difference when they have zero pattern to their operation.  It's as 
>> if they randomly spin the dial after every QSO and if you happen to be lucky 
>> (and strong) they hear you. Otherwise, you can spend hours of wasted time.  
>> A couple of west African DXpeditions currently operating leap to mind.
> 
> ---
> Bill Frantz| Truth and love must prevail  | Periwinkle
> (408)356-8506  | over lies and hate.  | 16345 Englewood Ave
> www.pwpconsult.com |   - Vaclav Havel | Los Gatos, CA 95032
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Bill Frantz]

I'm going to try to think like an op on a DXpedition, which is 
hard since I've never been one. I do know that what happens 
whenever I finish a QSO is an impenetrable wall of sound because 
there are at least 6 stations, all on that last frequency. 
Assume I'm operating split with VFO B locked on my transmit 
frequency. Particularly if I am using automation to send my "TU 
DX1STA UP" response, I could spend the time that message is 
being sent, tuning the receiver in my radio to pick a track on 
the waterfall in a far corner of the pileup. I can now start 
listening where I might hear something quickly and keep my rate up.


I do remember one of the big DXpeditions writing on their web 
site something to the effect of, "Just stay in one place. We'll 
find you." Of course, with low power and lots of strong stations 
nearer to the DX, that formula means a long slog.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 3/13/18 at 10:24 PM, wes_n...@triconet.org (Wes Stewart) wrote:

None of this works when the DX stations remove all possibility 
of skill making a difference when they have zero pattern to 
their operation.  It's as if they randomly spin the dial after 
every QSO and if you happen to be lucky (and strong) they hear 
you. Otherwise, you can spend hours of wasted time.  A couple 
of west African DXpeditions currently operating leap to mind.


---
Bill Frantz| Truth and love must prevail  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | over lies and hate.  | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |   - Vaclav Havel | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Wes Stewart]

None of this works when the DX stations remove all possibility of skill making a 
difference when they have zero pattern to their operation.  It's as if they 
randomly spin the dial after every QSO and if you happen to be lucky (and 
strong) they hear you. Otherwise, you can spend hours of wasted time.  A couple 
of west African DXpeditions currently operating leap to mind.


OTOH, TN5R was very predicable on 160 about an hour ago and I worked him with my 
modest station for a new one.


Wes  N7WS

On 3/13/2018 9:48 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
I must admit, I tend to use my eyes on the P3 and then confirm what I see by 
listening on the sub-receiver. Of course, when the DX is very weak, I need 
diversity to be able to hear him, hence the 3rd receiver.


My standard DXing pose is eyes glued to the P3, looking for the last caller 
and for open spaces to squeeze in a signal. Just going to the frequency of the 
last caller doesn't work really well because everyone else is there.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 3/13/18 at 3:18 AM, btipp...@alum.mit.edu (Bill Tippett) wrote:


On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 6:07 AM, Bill Rowlett  wrote:

What happened to using your ears to find the station being worked?


That works too...but then you truly DO need a third receiver if you want to
use diversity on the DX station.  I don't know how many truly massive CW
pileups you've ever been in but you can spend HOURS when you can spend
MINUTES by using CW Skimmer.  This comes from an OT who has 385 confirmed
overall since 1957.

73,  Bill  W4ZV


---
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(408)356-8506  | because I can get fruits and | 16345 Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | vegetables without stickers. | Los Gatos, CA 95032

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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Bill Frantz]

I must admit, I tend to use my eyes on the P3 and then confirm 
what I see by listening on the sub-receiver. Of course, when the 
DX is very weak, I need diversity to be able to hear him, hence 
the 3rd receiver.


My standard DXing pose is eyes glued to the P3, looking for the 
last caller and for open spaces to squeeze in a signal. Just 
going to the frequency of the last caller doesn't work really 
well because everyone else is there.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 3/13/18 at 3:18 AM, btipp...@alum.mit.edu (Bill Tippett) wrote:


On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 6:07 AM, Bill Rowlett  wrote:

What happened to using your ears to find the station being worked?


That works too...but then you truly DO need a third receiver if you want to
use diversity on the DX station.  I don't know how many truly massive CW
pileups you've ever been in but you can spend HOURS when you can spend
MINUTES by using CW Skimmer.  This comes from an OT who has 385 confirmed
overall since 1957.

73,  Bill  W4ZV


---
Bill Frantz| I like the farmers' market   | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | because I can get fruits and | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | vegetables without stickers. | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Don Wilhelm]

Dave,

Yes, you will find the SubRX will be a benefit for working DX - similar 
to the dual watch on the KX2 - although the K3/K3X subRX will provide a 
lot more capability, monitoring other bands with the subRX (with VFO IND 
menu set on is just one 'for instance').  The P3 also adds another layer 
of helpfulness for DX or contesting operation.
It helps you to know where and when to transmit when trying to snag that 
elusive DX station.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/13/2018 7:24 PM, Dave Fugleberg wrote:

I’ve always had a single receiver, modest antennas, and 100 watts, and have
worked many of the DXpeditions over the years. However, it seems like it’s
getting more difficult lately to figure out the pileups just by listening.
I don’t know if it’s the ‘constant callers’ that keep calling while the DX
is working someone else, or the fact that some of the DX is hopping around
without a discernible pattern (perhaps clicking on a panadapter to work the
station that’s in the clear at that moment). Maybe my skills at reading the
pileup are no longer sufficient (not that I have ever been a DX expert).
Anyhow, I’m thinking about trying some of these newer ideas like a local
skimmer and/or a sub receiver.
Just for fun last night, I tried listening to the 3C0W pileup with my KX2,
using the ‘dual watch’ capability that’s built in. I found it was pretty
easy to find the station working the DX that way, so maybe a sub receiver
for the K3 would be worthwhile.
Maybe I’ll have to visit one of my friends who already has the sub to try
it out.

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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Dave Fugleberg]

I’ve always had a single receiver, modest antennas, and 100 watts, and have
worked many of the DXpeditions over the years. However, it seems like it’s
getting more difficult lately to figure out the pileups just by listening.
I don’t know if it’s the ‘constant callers’ that keep calling while the DX
is working someone else, or the fact that some of the DX is hopping around
without a discernible pattern (perhaps clicking on a panadapter to work the
station that’s in the clear at that moment). Maybe my skills at reading the
pileup are no longer sufficient (not that I have ever been a DX expert).
Anyhow, I’m thinking about trying some of these newer ideas like a local
skimmer and/or a sub receiver.
Just for fun last night, I tried listening to the 3C0W pileup with my KX2,
using the ‘dual watch’ capability that’s built in. I found it was pretty
easy to find the station working the DX that way, so maybe a sub receiver
for the K3 would be worthwhile.
Maybe I’ll have to visit one of my friends who already has the sub to try
it out.
My main (self-imposed) criteria for DXCC is that I work them with my own
station from one location (here in the RF black hole of the Midwest). To
each his own I guess!
On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 5:12 PM Dave Sublette  wrote:

> I worked the XR0YD on 40M with 5 watts, one call.  The KX3 is a cool rig!
>
> K4TO
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 5:02 PM, Wes Stewart 
> wrote:
>
> > I still use my ears.
> >
> > And I don't use skimmer, automatic tuning via spots, remote stations,
> > etc.  I also have only a single receiver K3S, KPA500 and very modest
> > antennas. (See my QRZ page)  Yet for example in the last few days, I've
> > managed to work XR0YD on all bands and modes they've operated on that
> > count*, except for 40-meter SSB.  (25 of 33 slots)
> >
> > I do have a K-Pod but for me the knob just gets in the way of the buttons
> > and I never use it.
> >
> > * I broke down and worked them on a couple of slots on FT8 just for the
> > heck of it, but I won't claim them.
> >
> > Wes
> >
> > On 3/13/2018 3:07 AM, Bill Rowlett wrote:
> >
> >> What happened to using your ears to find the station being worked?
> >>
> >> 73 Bill  KC4IM
> >>
> >>
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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Dave Sublette]

I worked the XR0YD on 40M with 5 watts, one call.  The KX3 is a cool rig!

K4TO

On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 5:02 PM, Wes Stewart  wrote:

> I still use my ears.
>
> And I don't use skimmer, automatic tuning via spots, remote stations,
> etc.  I also have only a single receiver K3S, KPA500 and very modest
> antennas. (See my QRZ page)  Yet for example in the last few days, I've
> managed to work XR0YD on all bands and modes they've operated on that
> count*, except for 40-meter SSB.  (25 of 33 slots)
>
> I do have a K-Pod but for me the knob just gets in the way of the buttons
> and I never use it.
>
> * I broke down and worked them on a couple of slots on FT8 just for the
> heck of it, but I won't claim them.
>
> Wes
>
> On 3/13/2018 3:07 AM, Bill Rowlett wrote:
>
>> What happened to using your ears to find the station being worked?
>>
>> 73 Bill  KC4IM
>>
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Wes Stewart]

I still use my ears.

And I don't use skimmer, automatic tuning via spots, remote stations, etc.  I 
also have only a single receiver K3S, KPA500 and very modest antennas. (See my 
QRZ page)  Yet for example in the last few days, I've managed to work XR0YD on 
all bands and modes they've operated on that count*, except for 40-meter SSB.  
(25 of 33 slots)


I do have a K-Pod but for me the knob just gets in the way of the buttons and I 
never use it.


* I broke down and worked them on a couple of slots on FT8 just for the heck of 
it, but I won't claim them.


Wes

On 3/13/2018 3:07 AM, Bill Rowlett wrote:

What happened to using your ears to find the station being worked?

73 Bill  KC4IM



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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[wb6rse1]

In K3 diversity mode, press and hold the REV button and tune the pile with the 
Main knob VFO A. Release the REV button and you're back to diversity RX on the 
desired signal. If you have a P3 it will give you clues on where to scan the 
pile.

GL - Steve WB6RSE



On Mar 13, 2018, at 2:57 AM, Bill W4ZV  wrote:

Bill Frantz wrote
> But now I need three receivers. Two for diversity and one to scan the
> pileup.

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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Bill W4ZV]

Jim Brown-10 wrote
> That works fine IF you're a big signal at the DX QTH, but not so well if 
> you're not. When, for example, you're in W6 trying to work AF through EU 
> and the east coast, who are 20 dB louder. For that, you've gotta be a 
> bit smarter.

I guess my 30 years in Colorado made me doubly smart, since I had to work
through BOTH coasts.  :-))  And I never once complained about either.

73,  Bill  W4ZV




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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Ignacy]

> But I still get my thrills from working 
>  weak DX on 160 that I hear with my ears (like VU2BGS last night who runs 
>  140W to a 10 meter high vertical!).   

^  73,  Bill  W4ZV 

For every DX with a  short vertical on 160m there is someone else with 4
square. 
I heard Bill as ZL/NO9E on 160m last month with $599 FT-891 and he was loud!   

Ignacy, NO9E



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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Jim Brown]

That works fine IF you're a big signal at the DX QTH, but not so well if 
you're not. When, for example, you're in W6 trying to work AF through EU 
and the east coast, who are 20 dB louder. For that, you've gotta be a 
bit smarter.


73, Jim K9YC

On 3/13/2018 2:57 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote:

Get CW Skimmer and enable its "599" function.  You don't even need to listen
to the pileup since you can watch for the last "599" in the spectrum display
and move your TX there.



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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Jim Brown]

On 3/13/2018 5:20 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote:

But I still get my thrills from working
weak DX on 160


And I get my thrills from achieving DXCC from a single location, not 
multiple locations thousands of miles apart. I started over at age 62 
when I moved from Chicago to California.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Bill W4ZV]

j...@kk9a.com wrote
> I was not aware how high tech it has become.

Indeed!  It's now possible to work DX you cannot hear with WSJT-FT8 and use
Remote Ham Radio to use massive stations anywhere in the US (or world for
that matter) from your easy chair.  But I still get my thrills from working
weak DX on 160 that I hear with my ears (like VU2BGS last night who runs
140W to a 10 meter high vertical!).   

73,  Bill  W4ZV



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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Bill Tippett]

On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 6:07 AM, Bill Rowlett  wrote:

What happened to using your ears to find the station being worked?


That works too...but then you truly DO need a third receiver if you want to
use diversity on the DX station.  I don't know how many truly massive CW
pileups you've ever been in but you can spend HOURS when you can spend
MINUTES by using CW Skimmer.  This comes from an OT who has 385 confirmed
overall since 1957.

73,  Bill  W4ZV
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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Bill Rowlett]

What happened to using your ears to find the station being worked?

73 Bill  KC4IM


> On Mar 13, 2018, at 5:57 AM, Bill W4ZV  wrote:
> 
> Bill Frantz wrote
>> But now I need three receivers. Two for diversity and one to scan the
>> pileup.
> 
> Get CW Skimmer and enable its "599" function.  You don't even need to listen
> to the pileup since you can watch for the last "599" in the spectrum display
> and move your TX there.  Here's a macro I wrote in 2011 with details:
> 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Pileup-Buster-Macro-td6579405.html
> 
> 73,  Bill  W4ZV
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Bill W4ZV]

Bill Frantz wrote
> But now I need three receivers. Two for diversity and one to scan the
> pileup.

Get CW Skimmer and enable its "599" function.  You don't even need to listen
to the pileup since you can watch for the last "599" in the spectrum display
and move your TX there.  Here's a macro I wrote in 2011 with details:

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Pileup-Buster-Macro-td6579405.html

73,  Bill  W4ZV




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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Hisashi T Fujinaka]

My trick is to use the Pigknob or K-Pod on the subrx frequency. That
keeps two big knobs away from each other.

The other trick is to put CW maros on the buttons. It made working the
W1AW/50 stations a lot of fun a couple of years ago.

On Mon, 12 Mar 2018, Wes Stewart wrote:


Lock VFO A on the DX.  My "Split" macros do exactly that.

Wes  N7WS

On 3/12/2018 5:01 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
And I got the sub-receiver because I kept confusing the tuning knobs when 
using REV. It greatly improved my life in pileups.


73 Bill AE6JV 


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BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee
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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Wes Stewart]

Lock VFO A on the DX.  My "Split" macros do exactly that.

Wes  N7WS

On 3/12/2018 5:01 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
And I got the sub-receiver because I kept confusing the tuning knobs when 
using REV. It greatly improved my life in pileups.


73 Bill AE6JV 


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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Bill Frantz]

And I got the sub-receiver because I kept confusing the tuning 
knobs when using REV. It greatly improved my life in pileups.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 3/12/18 at 4:56 PM, ve...@shaw.ca (Ralph Parker) wrote:


I sometimes find myself switching diversity on and off while trying to break a 
pileup when the dx

station is particularly weak.

The P3 + VGA is helpful in spotting when diversity is on and I can’t hear the 
pileup.


When my diversity is in use, I can get by fairly well in 
deciphering the pileup by using the "REV" function.

Then the diversity mode stays on.

VE7XF

---
Bill Frantz| Since the IBM Selectric, keyboards have gotten
408-356-8506   | steadily worse. Now we have touchscreen keyboards.
www.pwpconsult.com | Can we make something even worse?

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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Ralph Parker]

>I sometimes find myself switching diversity on and off while trying to 
break a pileup when the dx station is particularly weak.
>The P3 + VGA is helpful in spotting when diversity is on and I can’t 
hear the pileup.


When my diversity is in use, I can get by fairly well in deciphering the 
pileup by using the "REV" function.

Then the diversity mode stays on.

VE7XF

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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Vic Rosenthal]

Actually, I sometimes find myself switching diversity on and off while trying 
to break a pileup when the dx station is particularly weak. The P3 + VGA is 
helpful in spotting when diversity is on and I can’t hear the pileup.

Vic 4X6GP 

> On 12 Mar 2018, at 22:23, Ralph Parker  wrote:
> 
> >But now I need three receivers. Two for diversity and one to scan the pileup.
> 
> K4
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Ralph Parker]

>But now I need three receivers. Two for diversity and one to scan the 
pileup.


K4


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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Bill Frantz]

But now I need three receivers. Two for diversity and one to scan the pileup.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 3/10/18 at 2:46 PM, k9...@live.com (Bill Johnson) wrote:

> Chris, the second receiver sure makes a difference when using diversity.  I 
> use antennas well 
> separated, one vertical and one loop.  Amazing how the band condx can change. 
>  Nice to have the 
> reception be instantaneous with my stereo speakers.
---
Bill Frantz| Truth and love must prevail  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | over lies and hate.  | 16345 Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |   - Vaclav Havel | Los Gatos, CA 95032

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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Bill Johnson]

Chris, the second receiver sure makes a difference when using diversity.  I use 
antennas well separated, one vertical and one loop.  Amazing how the band condx 
can change.  Nice to have the reception be instantaneous with my stereo 
speakers.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Chris Hallinan
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2018 3:27 PM
To:  
Subject: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

I just got my K3 back from Watsonville where I had the Sub RX, KIO3B and other 
mods installed.

First ever QSO with my new KRX3A: TN5R on 20m CW.  Beat the pileup while 
listening to both sides.

TOTALLY AWESOME!

Didn't realize how powerful a tool it is having that 2nd RX.  I'm a true 
believer now  ;) Time to plan a couple receiving antennas!

73 de K1AY
Chris

--
Life is like Linux - it never stands still.
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Re: [Elecraft] New Sub RX

[Wayne Burdick]

Nice work, Chris. Which band?

Wayne
N6KR



http://www.elecraft.com

> On Mar 10, 2018, at 1:26 PM, Chris Hallinan  wrote:

> I just got my K3 back from Watsonville where I had the Sub RX, KIO3B and
> other mods installed.
> 
> First ever QSO with my new KRX3A: TN5R on 20m CW.  Beat the pileup while
> listening to both sides.
> 
> TOTALLY AWESOME!
> 
> Didn't realize how powerful a tool it is having that 2nd RX.  I'm a true
> believer now  ;)
> Time to plan a couple receiving antennas!
> 
> 73 de K1AY
> Chris
> 
> -- 
> Life is like Linux - it never stands still.
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