Re: [Elecraft] Mic headset for K3

[Jim Brown]

On 2/22/2021 12:32 PM, Bill Steffey NY9H wrote:
maybe we can start a trend to get all the essb & AUDIO guys on ham radio 
to get ribbon mics? since there is nothing "special" about condenser 
mics anymore.


if they think neumann's are cool..  they'd probably want something more 
esoteric like a ribbon ?


Yep. I need to unload my mic closet anyway. Although I'd rather find a 
better home for them than in the shack of a misguided ham.


now that would go pop very well..


Oh yeah!

I'd like a sennheiser 441 for the shack , but my ole' AKG paging 
gooseneck microphone works so well.


Before W6XU turned our contesting club onto the CM500, I was using one 
of my RE16s in the shack on an AKG boom stand. It was awkward, but great 
TX audio. A boom mic headset like the CM500 is far superior for operating.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Mic headset for K3

[Bill Steffey NY9H]

hey Jim,

maybe we can start a trend to get all the essb & AUDIO guys on ham radio 
to get ribbon mics? since there is nothing "special" about condenser 
mics anymore.


if they think neumann's are cool..  they'd probably want something more 
esoteric like a ribbon ?


now that would go pop very well..

I'd like a sennheiser 441 for the shack , but my ole' AKG paging 
gooseneck microphone works so well.


bill


On 2/22/2021 1:50 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 2/22/2021 7:01 AM, Hank Garretson wrote:

But I'm confused about electret versus condenser and which is which and
which does what.


Electret is a more specific description of the condenser mic that is 
in the CM500. Did you miss the long private email I wrote you about 
that? Virtually all ham mics that are condensers are electrets.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic headset for K3

[Gary Memory]

Interesting thread.  I have a K4D on order.  But have been using a Heil
Pro7 (dynamic and electret elements) with existing rigs.  I’m hopeful what
I have will work.  When not using the headset, I simply use the standard
hand mic for any specific radio in use at the moment.

Gary N7BRJ

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 14:22 Brian Hunt  wrote:

> I have two of the $16-20 Logitech computer headsets, one permanently
> plugged into the back of my K3 and the other I swap between my KX2 and
> computer for zoom calls. They each weigh about 4 ounces and I don’t feel
> like my head’s been in a vice after wearing them for a couple hours. The
> good thing for us mic neophytes is the mic is always in the right spot for
> consistent modulation levels, etc. YMMV
>
> 73, Brian, K0DTJ
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic headset for K3

[Brian Hunt]

I have two of the $16-20 Logitech computer headsets, one permanently plugged 
into the back of my K3 and the other I swap between my KX2 and computer for 
zoom calls. They each weigh about 4 ounces and I don’t feel like my head’s been 
in a vice after wearing them for a couple hours. The good thing for us mic 
neophytes is the mic is always in the right spot for consistent modulation 
levels, etc. YMMV

73, Brian, K0DTJ
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic headset for K3

[Jim Brown]

On 2/22/2021 7:01 AM, Hank Garretson wrote:

But I'm confused about electret versus condenser and which is which and
which does what.


Electret is a more specific description of the condenser mic that is in 
the CM500. Did you miss the long private email I wrote you about that? 
Virtually all ham mics that are condensers are electrets.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic headset for K3

[Walter Underwood]

The Koss SB-45 has an electret mic. I found it really uncomfortable, though.
Here is my blog post about that.

https://observer.wunderwood.org/2021/01/27/koss-sb-45-vs-yamaha-cm500/

Electret and condenser are prtty much the same thing, though “condenser” is
mainly used for large, expensive studio mics. Maybe you are thinking about
electret vs dynamic.

If you want a light weight, inexpensive headset, try the Koss CS100. The
Amazon page says “dynamic element”, but they may be talking about the
ear elements. Both the Koss page and the detail section on Amazon say
the mic is an electret.

https://www.amazon.com/Koss-Communications-Headset-Microphone-CS100-USB/dp/B5ML7Q
https://www.koss.com/headphones/headsets-and-gaming/cs100

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Feb 22, 2021, at 7:01 AM, Hank Garretson  wrote:
> 
> I like theYamaha CM500. Unfortunately I'm now on my fourth set. They are
> too fragile for me. Either headphones or mic fails.
> 
> I plug CM500 mic into K3 rear MIC jack with BIAS selected and it works. I
> plug CM500 into my computer sound-card MIC jack and it works.
> 
> I'm looking for CM500 alternative. I've seen various Koss models.
> 
> But I'm confused about electret versus condenser and which is which and
> which does what.
> 
> Specs for the Koss models are ambiguous and in various places contradict
> themselves.
> 
> My question: What Koss model or some other brand can I plug and play into
> both my K3 mic jack (with Bias on) and into my computer mic jack?
> 
> I'm a mic duffus. Help please.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Hank, W6SX
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic headset for K3

[David Bunte]

Hank -

As primarily a CW operator I am also a "mic dufus", but I did make almost 2
dozen SSB QSOs with my K3 in the past three years and got excellent
reports. I used to use a CM500 with excellent results, but when I got
hearing aids I found that an "on the ear" style rather than an "over the
ear style" was better for me. I found a $6 gaming headset that was great.
However, I ran over the cord once too often with my chair and got an
intermittent in the cord. Rather than try to fix it I decided to replace it
and got an INSIGNIA gaming style headset from BEST BUY for about $24 as I
recall. The EQ settings I used with the CM500 worked very well with the
first cheap headset and I have not changed then for this one.


Locals, who know me well enough say that I sound very natural with good
clean audio. One person said that they thought I should crank up the gain
and compression to assure pileup busting... but that was not a priority so
I left it alone. I was VERY happy with the CM500 but am even happier with
what I have now.

There may be technical differences between an electret and a condenser but
as a "mid dufus" I will yield to others in that regard. I think that "some"
condenser mics may require higher bias than the K3 supplies, but again I
must yield to others, who clearly know more about such matters than do I.

Very 73 es gl de Dave - K9FN

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 10:03 AM Hank Garretson  wrote:

> I like theYamaha CM500. Unfortunately I'm now on my fourth set. They are
> too fragile for me. Either headphones or mic fails.
>
> I plug CM500 mic into K3 rear MIC jack with BIAS selected and it works. I
> plug CM500 into my computer sound-card MIC jack and it works.
>
> I'm looking for CM500 alternative. I've seen various Koss models.
>
> But I'm confused about electret versus condenser and which is which and
> which does what.
>
> Specs for the Koss models are ambiguous and in various places contradict
> themselves.
>
> My question: What Koss model or some other brand can I plug and play into
> both my K3 mic jack (with Bias on) and into my computer mic jack?
>
> I'm a mic duffus. Help please.
>
> 73,
>
> Hank, W6SX
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Noise

[Bill Johnson]

By chance is TX Gate turned on and there is background noise?

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

https://wrj-tech.com/

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Don Wilhelm
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2019 11:22 AM
To: Buck ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mic Noise

Buck,

It sounds like that noise is coming from whatever computer software application 
you are using.  You mentioned N1MM.
When you unplug the USB cable, whatever software you are using loses 
communications with the radio.
When you plug it back in, that program is not attempting to re-establish 
communications.

What applications do you have active on your computer?

I again suggest you get the microphone to work first - unplug everything from 
the K3 except the microphone, the power and the antenna connection.  There may 
be something unrelated to the microphone going awry, so eliminate everything 
except the microphone.  When that works, build things back up one at a time 
until you discover the culprit.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/16/2019 7:13 PM, Buck wrote:
> I've tried all the combination of mics and mic bias.  The noise 
> happens even with the mic gain turned all the way down and the rig in 
> TEST mode.  It happens when N1MM is not running.  It happens using the 
> internal DVR card.  It happens with the mic disconnected and using the 
> XMIT button on the front of the radio.
> -
> Here is a clue.  If I turn on the VOX and reduce the either the RF or 
> AF gain on the receiver, I start getting the noise about once every 
> half second.  It sounds like it starts with a "ping." Sounds like 
> something is polling the radio.
>
> If I disconnect the USB cable on the back of the radio, no noise. It 
> seemed to be properly seated.  Now, if I plug the USB cable back into 
> the radio, no noise.  Have I found the culprit?  A lose USB cable?
>

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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Noise

[Buck]

The mics work.  My problem was a burst of noise when the rig went into 
transmit.


It appears re-seating the USB cable in the back of the radio has cured 
the problem.  It did not appear to be lose.  And the noise would appear 
even if I was using the VOX or PTT switch or the internal DVR.  In other 
words, not using the USB to trigger the radio.


There's one to put in the books.  I am sure I won't be the only person 
to run into this and I still can't explain it.


k4ia, Buck
K3# 101
Honor Roll  8B DXCC
EasyWayHamBooks.com

On 3/17/2019 12:22 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Buck,

It sounds like that noise is coming from whatever computer software 
application you are using.  You mentioned N1MM.
When you unplug the USB cable, whatever software you are using loses 
communications with the radio.
When you plug it back in, that program is not attempting to re-establish 
communications.


What applications do you have active on your computer?

I again suggest you get the microphone to work first - unplug everything 
from the K3 except the microphone, the power and the antenna 
connection.  There may be something unrelated to the microphone going 
awry, so eliminate everything except the microphone.  When that works, 
build things back up one at a time until you discover the culprit.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/16/2019 7:13 PM, Buck wrote:
I've tried all the combination of mics and mic bias.  The noise 
happens even with the mic gain turned all the way down and the rig in 
TEST mode.  It happens when N1MM is not running.  It happens using the 
internal DVR card.  It happens with the mic disconnected and using the 
XMIT button on the front of the radio.

-
Here is a clue.  If I turn on the VOX and reduce the either the RF or 
AF gain on the receiver, I start getting the noise about once every 
half second.  It sounds like it starts with a "ping." Sounds like 
something is polling the radio.


If I disconnect the USB cable on the back of the radio, no noise. It 
seemed to be properly seated.  Now, if I plug the USB cable back into 
the radio, no noise.  Have I found the culprit?  A lose USB cable?





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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Noise

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

By chance is MIC + LIN set to the ON mode in the MENU?   Should be OFF 
for just microphone usage.


I agree with Don.  Disconnect everything except the power cables, 
antenna coax and microphone.


73

Bob, K4TAX

On 3/17/2019 11:22 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Buck,

It sounds like that noise is coming from whatever computer software 
application you are using.  You mentioned N1MM.
When you unplug the USB cable, whatever software you are using loses 
communications with the radio.
When you plug it back in, that program is not attempting to 
re-establish communications.


What applications do you have active on your computer?

I again suggest you get the microphone to work first - unplug 
everything from the K3 except the microphone, the power and the 
antenna connection.  There may be something unrelated to the 
microphone going awry, so eliminate everything except the microphone.  
When that works, build things back up one at a time until you discover 
the culprit.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/16/2019 7:13 PM, Buck wrote:
I've tried all the combination of mics and mic bias.  The noise 
happens even with the mic gain turned all the way down and the rig in 
TEST mode.  It happens when N1MM is not running.  It happens using 
the internal DVR card.  It happens with the mic disconnected and 
using the XMIT button on the front of the radio.

-
Here is a clue.  If I turn on the VOX and reduce the either the RF or 
AF gain on the receiver, I start getting the noise about once every 
half second.  It sounds like it starts with a "ping." Sounds like 
something is polling the radio.


If I disconnect the USB cable on the back of the radio, no noise. It 
seemed to be properly seated.  Now, if I plug the USB cable back into 
the radio, no noise.  Have I found the culprit? A lose USB cable?




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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Noise

[Don Wilhelm]

Buck,

It sounds like that noise is coming from whatever computer software 
application you are using.  You mentioned N1MM.
When you unplug the USB cable, whatever software you are using loses 
communications with the radio.
When you plug it back in, that program is not attempting to re-establish 
communications.


What applications do you have active on your computer?

I again suggest you get the microphone to work first - unplug everything 
from the K3 except the microphone, the power and the antenna 
connection.  There may be something unrelated to the microphone going 
awry, so eliminate everything except the microphone.  When that works, 
build things back up one at a time until you discover the culprit.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/16/2019 7:13 PM, Buck wrote:
I've tried all the combination of mics and mic bias.  The noise 
happens even with the mic gain turned all the way down and the rig in 
TEST mode.  It happens when N1MM is not running.  It happens using the 
internal DVR card.  It happens with the mic disconnected and using the 
XMIT button on the front of the radio.

-
Here is a clue.  If I turn on the VOX and reduce the either the RF or 
AF gain on the receiver, I start getting the noise about once every 
half second.  It sounds like it starts with a "ping." Sounds like 
something is polling the radio.


If I disconnect the USB cable on the back of the radio, no noise. It 
seemed to be properly seated.  Now, if I plug the USB cable back into 
the radio, no noise.  Have I found the culprit?  A lose USB cable?




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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Noise

[Jack Brindle via Elecraft]

That could be. USB and computer connections are notorious for causing problems 
if they are not shielded or connected properly. By unplugging and replugging 
the USB cable you just may have seated it properly and fixed things. Play with 
the radio for a while, on the air, and let us know if it actually did solve 
your problem.

73!
Jack, W6FB


> On Mar 16, 2019, at 4:13 PM, Buck  wrote:
> 
> I've tried all the combination of mics and mic bias.  The noise happens even 
> with the mic gain turned all the way down and the rig in TEST mode.  It 
> happens when N1MM is not running.  It happens using the internal DVR card.  
> It happens with the mic disconnected and using the XMIT button on the front 
> of the radio.
> -
> Here is a clue.  If I turn on the VOX and reduce the either the RF or AF gain 
> on the receiver, I start getting the noise about once every half second.  It 
> sounds like it starts with a "ping."  Sounds like something is polling the 
> radio.
> 
> If I disconnect the USB cable on the back of the radio, no noise.  It seemed 
> to be properly seated.  Now, if I plug the USB cable back into the radio, no 
> noise.  Have I found the culprit?  A lose USB cable?
> 
> k4ia, Buck
> K3# 101
> Honor Roll  8B DXCC
> EasyWayHamBooks.com
> 
> On 3/16/2019 4:43 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Buck,
>> The Heil Goldline mic is a dynamic type, last I heard it has an HC-5 
>> element.  It should have bias off.
>> The Elecraft MH4 is an electret type and must have bias set on - use "FP.L 
>> bias"
>> It may just be that you have too much mic gain - start with a mid-range 
>> setting.  The mic preamp can shut down if it receivers too much signal.
>> Make sure there is nothing plugged into the rear mic jack - although MIC SEL 
>> should allow you to switch from one to another.
>> If you are not successful, do you have one of the computer type microphones? 
>>  If so, plug it into the rear mic jack, set MIC SEL to "RP.L bias" and see 
>> if you get any audio.
>> Have you made any changes to the Front Panel assembly where you removed the 
>> DSP board?  If so, there is one connector between the Front Panel board and 
>> DSP board that if not mated properly will cause the front panel audio to 
>> fail.
>> The TX DLY should have nothing to do with it.  The KPA500 becomes active 
>> with very little delay.
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> On 3/16/2019 4:24 PM, Buck wrote:
>>> Thanks. I was using a Heil Goldline and also tried an Elecraft MH4 plugged 
>>> in the front.  I get the same noise on FP.L and FP.H  Bias is off.  And, I 
>>> still get the noise even when in TEST mode, so there is no RF.
>>> 
>>> I had the Tx Dly on the K3S set to 8.  I set it to 15 and the problem went 
>>> away.  Was I hitting the amp too soon?  Amp is a KPA500.
>>> 
>>> Now the problem is back, even with the Tx Dly set to 20.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> k4ia, Buck
>>> K3# 101
>>> Honor Roll  8B DXCC
>>> EasyWayHamBooks.com
>>> 
>>> On 3/16/2019 3:41 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
 Buck,
 
 Which transceiver and which microphone?
 If the K3, are you using the front panel mic jack or the jack in the back?
 How do you have MIC SEL set?
 
 73,
 Don W3FPR
 
 On 3/16/2019 2:57 PM, Buck wrote:
> I never use a microphone so here I am today trying to run voice in the Va 
> QSO party.
> 
> When I key the mic, I get a burst of noise that lasts maybe a half 
> second.  It does this even if I have the rig in "test" mode ie. no 
> transmit.  So, I don't think it is RF.
> 
>>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Noise

[Don Wilhelm]

Buck,

I would suggest that you not worry about the noise burst until you can 
get a good response out of the mic.
If you do not have a computer mic handy, borrow one and plug it into the 
rear panel mic jack.  See if you can obtain a response on the ALC meter 
with that microphone.  All computer type microphones need bias.  Buy one 
if you must - they can be had for just a few dollars (less than what the 
frustration is costing you).


If the rear mic jack works, then your problem may be the DSP board to 
Front Panel connector mating that I mentioned.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/16/2019 7:13 PM, Buck wrote:
I've tried all the combination of mics and mic bias.  The noise 
happens even with the mic gain turned all the way down and the rig in 
TEST mode.  It happens when N1MM is not running.  It happens using the 
internal DVR card.  It happens with the mic disconnected and using the 
XMIT button on the front of the radio.

-
Here is a clue.  If I turn on the VOX and reduce the either the RF or 
AF gain on the receiver, I start getting the noise about once every 
half second.  It sounds like it starts with a "ping." Sounds like 
something is polling the radio.


If I disconnect the USB cable on the back of the radio, no noise. It 
seemed to be properly seated.  Now, if I plug the USB cable back into 
the radio, no noise.  Have I found the culprit?  A lose USB cable?




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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Noise

[Buck]

I've tried all the combination of mics and mic bias.  The noise happens 
even with the mic gain turned all the way down and the rig in TEST mode. 
 It happens when N1MM is not running.  It happens using the internal 
DVR card.  It happens with the mic disconnected and using the XMIT 
button on the front of the radio.

-
Here is a clue.  If I turn on the VOX and reduce the either the RF or AF 
gain on the receiver, I start getting the noise about once every half 
second.  It sounds like it starts with a "ping."  Sounds like something 
is polling the radio.


If I disconnect the USB cable on the back of the radio, no noise.  It 
seemed to be properly seated.  Now, if I plug the USB cable back into 
the radio, no noise.  Have I found the culprit?  A lose USB cable?


k4ia, Buck
K3# 101
Honor Roll  8B DXCC
EasyWayHamBooks.com

On 3/16/2019 4:43 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Buck,

The Heil Goldline mic is a dynamic type, last I heard it has an HC-5 
element.  It should have bias off.
The Elecraft MH4 is an electret type and must have bias set on - use 
"FP.L bias"


It may just be that you have too much mic gain - start with a mid-range 
setting.  The mic preamp can shut down if it receivers too much signal.


Make sure there is nothing plugged into the rear mic jack - although MIC 
SEL should allow you to switch from one to another.


If you are not successful, do you have one of the computer type 
microphones?  If so, plug it into the rear mic jack, set MIC SEL to 
"RP.L bias" and see if you get any audio.


Have you made any changes to the Front Panel assembly where you removed 
the DSP board?  If so, there is one connector between the Front Panel 
board and DSP board that if not mated properly will cause the front 
panel audio to fail.


The TX DLY should have nothing to do with it.  The KPA500 becomes active 
with very little delay.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/16/2019 4:24 PM, Buck wrote:
Thanks. I was using a Heil Goldline and also tried an Elecraft MH4 
plugged in the front.  I get the same noise on FP.L and FP.H  Bias is 
off.  And, I still get the noise even when in TEST mode, so there is 
no RF.


I had the Tx Dly on the K3S set to 8.  I set it to 15 and the problem 
went away.  Was I hitting the amp too soon?  Amp is a KPA500.


Now the problem is back, even with the Tx Dly set to 20.


k4ia, Buck
K3# 101
Honor Roll  8B DXCC
EasyWayHamBooks.com

On 3/16/2019 3:41 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Buck,

Which transceiver and which microphone?
If the K3, are you using the front panel mic jack or the jack in the 
back?

How do you have MIC SEL set?

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/16/2019 2:57 PM, Buck wrote:
I never use a microphone so here I am today trying to run voice in 
the Va QSO party.


When I key the mic, I get a burst of noise that lasts maybe a half 
second.  It does this even if I have the rig in "test" mode ie. no 
transmit.  So, I don't think it is RF.







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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Noise

[Nr4c]

I’ve had CM500 (bias) plunged into rear mic jack and various Heil dynamic mics 
(no bias) plunged into front panel ever since I’ve owned my K3 and K3S with no 
issue. 

This guy has some other issue. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Mar 16, 2019, at 5:55 PM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
> 
> I've kept my MH2 plugged into the front panel and the CM500 plugged into the 
> back for years, and used the MIC SEL to switch between them. It has always 
> worked well.
> 
> Note that both mics require bias. Heil sells both electret and dynamic 
> elements, so refer to the documentation, or web site, or people who have the 
> same mic element working.
> 
> 73 Bill AE^JV
> 
>> On 3/16/19 at 1:43 PM, donw...@embarqmail.com (Don Wilhelm) wrote:
>> 
>> Make sure there is nothing plugged into the rear mic jack - although MIC SEL 
>> should allow you to switch from one to another.
> 
> ---
> Bill Frantz| Since the IBM Selectric, keyboards have gotten
> 408-356-8506   | steadily worse. Now we have touchscreen keyboards.
> www.pwpconsult.com | Can we make something even worse?
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Noise

[Bill Frantz]

I've kept my MH2 plugged into the front panel and the CM500 
plugged into the back for years, and used the MIC SEL to switch 
between them. It has always worked well.


Note that both mics require bias. Heil sells both electret and 
dynamic elements, so refer to the documentation, or web site, or 
people who have the same mic element working.


73 Bill AE^JV

On 3/16/19 at 1:43 PM, donw...@embarqmail.com (Don Wilhelm) wrote:

Make sure there is nothing plugged into the rear mic jack - 
although MIC SEL should allow you to switch from one to another.


---
Bill Frantz| Since the IBM Selectric, keyboards have gotten
408-356-8506   | steadily worse. Now we have touchscreen keyboards.
www.pwpconsult.com | Can we make something even worse?

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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Noise

[Don Wilhelm]

Buck,

The Heil Goldline mic is a dynamic type, last I heard it has an HC-5 
element.  It should have bias off.
The Elecraft MH4 is an electret type and must have bias set on - use 
"FP.L bias"


It may just be that you have too much mic gain - start with a mid-range 
setting.  The mic preamp can shut down if it receivers too much signal.


Make sure there is nothing plugged into the rear mic jack - although MIC 
SEL should allow you to switch from one to another.


If you are not successful, do you have one of the computer type 
microphones?  If so, plug it into the rear mic jack, set MIC SEL to 
"RP.L bias" and see if you get any audio.


Have you made any changes to the Front Panel assembly where you removed 
the DSP board?  If so, there is one connector between the Front Panel 
board and DSP board that if not mated properly will cause the front 
panel audio to fail.


The TX DLY should have nothing to do with it.  The KPA500 becomes active 
with very little delay.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/16/2019 4:24 PM, Buck wrote:
Thanks. I was using a Heil Goldline and also tried an Elecraft MH4 
plugged in the front.  I get the same noise on FP.L and FP.H  Bias is 
off.  And, I still get the noise even when in TEST mode, so there is 
no RF.


I had the Tx Dly on the K3S set to 8.  I set it to 15 and the problem 
went away.  Was I hitting the amp too soon?  Amp is a KPA500.


Now the problem is back, even with the Tx Dly set to 20.


k4ia, Buck
K3# 101
Honor Roll  8B DXCC
EasyWayHamBooks.com

On 3/16/2019 3:41 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Buck,

Which transceiver and which microphone?
If the K3, are you using the front panel mic jack or the jack in the 
back?

How do you have MIC SEL set?

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/16/2019 2:57 PM, Buck wrote:
I never use a microphone so here I am today trying to run voice in 
the Va QSO party.


When I key the mic, I get a burst of noise that lasts maybe a half 
second.  It does this even if I have the rig in "test" mode ie. no 
transmit.  So, I don't think it is RF.






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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Noise

[Grant Youngman]

Not sure about the Heil, but the MH4 requires Bias to be ON.


Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091 KX3 #8342

> On Mar 16, 2019, at 4:24 PM, Buck  wrote:
> 
> Thanks.  I was using a Heil Goldline and also tried an Elecraft MH4 plugged 
> in the front.  I get the same noise on FP.L and FP.H  Bias is off.  And, I 
> still get the noise even when in TEST mode, so there is no RF.
> 
> I had the Tx Dly on the K3S set to 8.  I set it to 15 and the problem went 
> away.  Was I hitting the amp too soon?  Amp is a KPA500.
> 
> Now the problem is back, even with the Tx Dly set to 20.
> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Noise

[Buck]

Thanks.  I was using a Heil Goldline and also tried an Elecraft MH4 
plugged in the front.  I get the same noise on FP.L and FP.H  Bias is 
off.  And, I still get the noise even when in TEST mode, so there is no 
RF.


I had the Tx Dly on the K3S set to 8.  I set it to 15 and the problem 
went away.  Was I hitting the amp too soon?  Amp is a KPA500.


Now the problem is back, even with the Tx Dly set to 20.


k4ia, Buck
K3# 101
Honor Roll  8B DXCC
EasyWayHamBooks.com

On 3/16/2019 3:41 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Buck,

Which transceiver and which microphone?
If the K3, are you using the front panel mic jack or the jack in the back?
How do you have MIC SEL set?

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/16/2019 2:57 PM, Buck wrote:
I never use a microphone so here I am today trying to run voice in the 
Va QSO party.


When I key the mic, I get a burst of noise that lasts maybe a half 
second.  It does this even if I have the rig in "test" mode ie. no 
transmit.  So, I don't think it is RF.



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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Noise

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Is this a dynamic mike with the bias turned on?   If so, turn the bias 
off.   I trust this is a mike connected to the MIC input on the front of 
the radio.  If you are using the front mike input and something is 
connected to the rear MIC input, unplug what ever is connected to the 
rear input.


Good luck in the VA QSO party.   There's lots of activity.

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 3/16/2019 1:57 PM, Buck wrote:
I never use a microphone so here I am today trying to run voice in the 
Va QSO party.


When I key the mic, I get a burst of noise that lasts maybe a half 
second.  It does this even if I have the rig in "test" mode ie. no 
transmit.  So, I don't think it is RF.


I have tried adjusting the mic gain and changing mics - no luck. It 
does the same thing using VOX except the noise cycles about every half 
second.


Anyone have an idea?


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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Noise

[Don Wilhelm]

Buck,

Which transceiver and which microphone?
If the K3, are you using the front panel mic jack or the jack in the back?
How do you have MIC SEL set?

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/16/2019 2:57 PM, Buck wrote:
I never use a microphone so here I am today trying to run voice in the 
Va QSO party.


When I key the mic, I get a burst of noise that lasts maybe a half 
second.  It does this even if I have the rig in "test" mode ie. no 
transmit.  So, I don't think it is RF.



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Re: [Elecraft] Mic wiring for K2

[Don Wilhelm]

Page 17 has the mic signal definitions, page 18 has the plugging for 
various microphones.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/4/2018 5:24 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote:

page 17 of this?  http://www.elecraft.com/manual/ksb2%20manual%20rev%20G.pdf

Chuck Hawley
  c-haw...@illinois.edu


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Re: [Elecraft] Mic wiring for K2

[hawley, charles j jr]

page 17 of this?  http://www.elecraft.com/manual/ksb2%20manual%20rev%20G.pdf

Chuck Hawley
 c-haw...@illinois.edu

 Amateur Radio, KE9UW
 aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles

From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] on 
behalf of Paul Smith [n0...@outlook.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2018 2:46 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Mic wiring for K2

I ordered and received a MH4 for my K2. The instructions show the schematic of 
mic wires at J1 and enclosed are little jumpers. Where is J1 and how does a guy 
get to it?

Thanks in advance de Paul N0NBD


Sent from Outlook
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic wiring for K2

[Don Wilhelm]

Paul,

J1 is on the back of the Front Panel board.
The connections of that Microphone Configuration Header for various 
microphones are indicated in the charts toward the end of the KSB2 manual.


If you have used an Elecraft microphone before, you may already have 
those jumpers and the 5.6k bias resistor soldered on the back of the 
microphone jack installed already.


You can remove the left side panel and peer in to see if the jumpers and 
resistor are already in place.


If you just bought this K2 and do not know how to remove the Front 
Panel, refer to the article at 
http://www.qsl.net/wy3a/Replace_K2_Headphone_Jack.htm - go only as far 
as necessary to remove the front panel.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/4/2018 3:46 PM, Paul Smith wrote:

I ordered and received a MH4 for my K2. The instructions show the schematic of 
mic wires at J1 and enclosed are little jumpers. Where is J1 and how does a guy 
get to it?

Thanks in advance de Paul N0NBD


Sent from Outlook
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Bias

[Robert Harvey]

Thanks, Bill, that is exactly my situation.  I am glad to hear it.

73
Harv
K2PI

-Original Message-
From: Nr4c [mailto:n...@widomaker.com] 
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 11:10 PM
To: Bob Harvey - K2PI
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Mic Bias

No
Bias is independent as to front/rear connections. 

I use my headset w/bias (CM500) on rear and my Heil HM12 dynamic mic on from
without bias in front jack. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Mar 15, 2018, at 9:33 PM, Bob Harvey - K2PI <gadgetl...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> 
> When using a rear panel headset requiring Bias, what is the state of 
> Bias on the Front Panel mic connector?
> 
> I have a PR-781 Microphone that doesn't require bias, and have it 
> disconnected from the front panel when using the rear bias'd mic and 
> the RP bias setting in the menu.  Do I need to do this?
> 
> 73
> Harv
> K2PI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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> n...@widomaker.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Bias

[Nr4c]

No
Bias is independent as to front/rear connections. 

I use my headset w/bias (CM500) on rear and my Heil HM12 dynamic mic on from 
without bias in front jack. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Mar 15, 2018, at 9:33 PM, Bob Harvey - K2PI  wrote:
> 
> When using a rear panel headset requiring Bias, what is the state of Bias on
> the Front Panel mic connector?  
> 
> I have a PR-781 Microphone that doesn't require bias, and have it
> disconnected from the front panel when using the rear bias'd mic and the RP
> bias setting in the menu.  Do I need to do this?
> 
> 73
> Harv
> K2PI
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Bias

[Don Wilhelm]

Harv,

If you have the Rear Panel bias set on, and the Front Panel bias set on, 
all you have to do is change MIC SEL fron the front panel to the rear panel.


In other words, no problem.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/15/2018 9:33 PM, Bob Harvey - K2PI wrote:

When using a rear panel headset requiring Bias, what is the state of Bias on
the Front Panel mic connector?

I have a PR-781 Microphone that doesn't require bias, and have it
disconnected from the front panel when using the rear bias'd mic and the RP
bias setting in the menu.  Do I need to do this?

73
Harv
K2PI




--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Folks, at 41 postings this thread is well past the normal list guidelines max  
of10-15 posts.


Let's end it for now before someone gets hurt hitting their delete key.. ;-)

73,
Eric
List moderator
/elecraft.com/


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Re: [Elecraft] mic -David Clark aviation headsets

[Fred Jensen]

Thanks to all for the all the info.  I have concluded that, should I 
ever find the DC headset in the garage, I'm going to leave it there.  I 
currently use a Heil Proset I got from Elecraft.  I get very good 
reports when I'm on SSB, which is only rarely, thanks in part to my K3's 
TXEQ.  It's not the most comfortable, possibly because I've compressed 
the pads with use. The David Clark probably is in the same condition 
given its use. When I decide I need a new headset, I'll probably check 
here, and if they're still made, get the CM-500 and try it.


Again, thanks for all the info

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 6/12/17 12:50 PM, Dave B via Elecraft wrote:

Some of those use what's called a "Bantam" jack plug for one function
(Mic or Can's, I forget which.)  Was very common in landline telecoms
and broadcast circles some time back.

Best bet, is to look on the David Clark website.  They are also quite
helpful if you contact them too.
http://www.davidclarkcompany.com/
http://www.davidclarkcompany.com/aviation/customer-service.php

But be quick, they have a company shutdown July 3rd to 7th (Cant think why!)

73.

Dave G0WBX.
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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Dave B via Elecraft]

Some of those use what's called a "Bantam" jack plug for one function
(Mic or Can's, I forget which.)  Was very common in landline telecoms
and broadcast circles some time back.

Best bet, is to look on the David Clark website.  They are also quite
helpful if you contact them too.
http://www.davidclarkcompany.com/
http://www.davidclarkcompany.com/aviation/customer-service.php

But be quick, they have a company shutdown July 3rd to 7th (Cant think why!)

73.

Dave G0WBX.
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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Jim Brown]

On Sun,6/11/2017 4:16 PM, Art Peters wrote:

The point that I'll say is that the Yamaha headset, which I did buy largely 
from your raving reviews, did a fine job, but were never as comfortable as my 
other headsets.  I do use them as a spare and for guest ops. In fact, if I wear 
them for more than a couple hours, I get a rather nasty headache...

So, I'd like to add to this conversation.  While we have great ability to 
leverage a wide variety of mics, for me at least, fit and comfort are equal.


I couldn't agree more.  I find my CM500 comfortable enough to wear for a 
long weekend contest (some run 40 hours!). But that's a VERY personal 
thing -- we're all different. So I would be last person to tell you 
what's comfy for me is also comfy for you. :)  In-ear headphones are 
even more "user-specific."


I also find Sony MDR7506 extremely comfortable, so much so that I wear 
these cans all night as I sleep to pump jazz into my head. :)


Several times over the years, I've tried on those expensive aviation 
headsets adapted for ham use, and each time found them an element of 
physical torture.


The weak spot of most headphones is that their cables are not 
replaceable. The Sony cables are quite rugged, and I've never had a set 
break, but I did buy a set at a hamfest for $5 with a bad cable, and was 
never able to find a replacement. :)  I'm not easy on headsets, and have 
managed to break the cables in two CM500s.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] mic - David Clark

[Wes Stewart]

I have and have used a David Clark H10-30 headset on my TS870.  The microphone 
element is an amplified dynamic.  I don't recall what the original mic connector 
was; I cut if off and used the Kenwood standard 8-pin.  The headphones use a 
standard 1/4" mono plug.  I always got good audio reports but then I was using a 
TS870.


I have some documentation around here some place but I can say a gentleman at 
David Clark was very helpful and sent me plenty of information.


The main problem for me was that the phones really clamp your head and they're 
pretty heavy, which can get tiring.


Wes  N7WS

6/11/2017 2:44 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
Hmmm ... I've had it for several years and it saw some use before I got it but 
I doubt it's old enough to be a carbon mic like the WW2 T-17.


I just assumed the "noise cancelling" part applied to the headphones.  I 
didn't know it might apply to the mic.  There's no external noise in my shack 
to cancel anyway.


The connector is round and the contacts stick out of the face.  I think there 
are 6, maybe Headphones, Mic, and PTT?  There's a push-switch in the cable.  
It looks like the connector fits over the panel connector and you twist is to 
lock it ... like a BNC.  I don't think the headphones are stereo which is a 
big negative with my K3.


I was just curious.  This sounds like a project for some time when I have 
exactly nothing else to do. [:-)  Thanks for the info


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County 


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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Walter Underwood]

I was only talking about the ear portions of the CM500. Those are still not 
outstanding. Did I even suggest that there was a mic on the Grado headphones?

If you want to add an electret boom mic to your favorite headphones, use a 
ModMic.

https://antlionaudio.com/ 

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Jun 11, 2017, at 7:55 PM,   wrote:
> 
> I have not tired the Yamaha CM500 but if I recall correctly it does not have
> any replaceable parts. Where is the mic on the Grado SR-60?  For mic-less
> contests I use the Sony MDR 7506 that K9YC recommends and I could not be
> happier.
> 
> John KK9A
> 
> 
> Walter Underwood wrote: 
> Sun Jun 11 19:28:53 EDT 2017
> 
> Not sure I'd rate the Yamaha CM500 headset drivers as "outstanding". When my
> Grado SR-60 headphones died (after 15 years), I tried using the CM500 for
> music. That idea lasted about a day before I ordered new Grado phones. The
> current SR60e model is $80, so not that different from the Yamaha in terms
> of cost.
> 
> The CM500 is perfectly fine for voice communication work.
> 
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Dwayne Rohmer]

Skip,

I converted an '80's era H10-40A David Clark aviation headset. Adapting 
it for use with the K3 required a complete rebuild. The microphone isn't 
the only issue. The headband, domes, and mike boom can be salvaged, but 
you may want to consider replacing the remaining parts.


The original aviation spec microphone is not a good match for amateur 
radio. Consider replacment with an Acousticom 5730-CA electret, a 
communications mike that works well with the K3. It's an easy fit to the 
David Clark wire boom, not expensive, and produces good audio with TX EQ 
settings set to "0".


The original earphones were wired for 150 ohms (300 ohms each, wired in 
parallel, mono audio). They were replaced with original David Clark 19 
ohm, Part# 10376G-30, available on ebay for $12.00 each. The earphone 
frequency response is 200 - 5500 Hz, excellent for CW and SSB, forget 
the ipod.


To use the two speaker output of the K3, you'll have to replace the 
original headset wiring to provide separate audio to each earphone. 
Acousticom also has a wire assembly with microphone wires and stereo 
speaker wires in one outer jacket, separated on one end to attach two 
3.5mm plugs that you need for the K3.


The original foam ear seals were broken down from age. They didn't seal 
well, and extended wear caused ear pain. They were replaced with the gel 
filled type.  Gel seals won't compress, are more comfortable, and 
provide a better seal from noise.


I wouldn't recommend this if you have to purchase an old headset, but if 
you already have one and want to put it to use, the rebuild may be worth 
considering. When you get done, you'll have a decent headset that can be 
used in a noisy environment.


73,

Dwayne WV5I


On 6/11/2017 3:29 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
Just curious ... I inherited a David Clark noise cancelling aviation 
headset/mic from a neighbor who was a US Forest Service pilot. I've 
never tried it, the connector is strange.  I'm not even sure I know 
where it is right now.  Will it work with my K3 if I can find it and 
get the connector compatible?  I know they're expensive.


Maybe it will cancel the powerline noise on 80? [:-))

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 6/11/17 12:55 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


On 6/11/2017 2:45 PM, kevino z wrote:

Although headsets like my Heil Pro 7 may be more money, am I really
"wasting" money on buying a "fancy brand name"  considering the
unit consists of mic and incredible speakers?


Yes, at about $250 retail (plus adapter cable), the Pro 7 is more than
five times as expensive as the Yamaha CM-500 (electret mic), Koss SB40
(dynamic mic) or SB45 (electret mic) headsets.   Both the Yamaha and
Koss headsets have outstanding 120 Ohm headset drivers with sensitivity
rated at 96dB/mW and microphones well tailored for voice work. Heil
does not even publish the impedance or sensitivity for their headset
drivers!

For the price of a Heil Pro 7 one could get a Broadcast headset like
the Audio Technica BPHS1 ($199), Sennheiser HMD280 ($249) or Shure
BRH440M ($249) - all of which are significantly higher quality than
the Pro7 (and field proven).

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


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Re: [Elecraft] mic - David Clark

[Randy Farmer]

This thread has drifted into a discussion of headsets, so I'll throw in 
my 2 cents worth and QRT. I realize they're pricey, but I use and love 
the Radiosport headsets. I have both a RS-60CF headset with the electret 
mic element and a RS-20 receive-only headset. When properly adjusted 
both are extremely comfortable -- they're the only phones I've ever used 
that I can wear for a full contest weekend over my glasses with no 
problem whatsoever. They're NOT hi-fi phones; my understanding is that 
they were originally designed for auto racing pit communications, and 
the transducers are tailored for voice communication. They also have 
superb isolation from outside noise, somewhere around 28 dB. I can't 
hear the phone on my radio desk ring when I have them on. I also have a 
Yamaha CM-500 set, and the Radiosports blow them away, as well they 
should at almost 5X the price. For me, the substantial price difference 
is worth every cent. YMMV.


73...
Randy, W8FN

On 6/11/2017 8:32 PM, John Severyn wrote:

Hi Fred,
Aviation headsets come with a variety of mikes, some dynamic, but most
today are electret.  "Noise Cancelling" in aviation lingo usually means
some sort of seal over or in the ear.  "Electronic Noise Cancelling"
means the earpieces have active noise cancelling circuitry in addition
to the ear-seal.  (the seal can be over the ear or in the ear, like a
hearing aid, but most David Clark models are "over the ear").  The
microphone is also most probably of a noise cancelling design.

The David Clark line is considered to be fairly high quality and has
been around for a long time, since 1941.  They make a wide variety of
gear, from G-suits, high altitude pressure suits, helmets, headsets etc.

http://www.davidclarkcompany.com/aviation/fixed-wing-passive.php

Various connectors are available, from LEMO to larger phone jacks and
some specialized models.

The above link is for their present line of fixed wing headsets.  I have
several pairs of older H10-40 units, no longer made.  The mike is a
electret with very good noise cancelling and made to perform in a very
high noise environment, with passive noise reduction, over the ear
seals.  Fidelity is not the goal.  Voice communication in a very high
noise environment of a piston engine propellor aircraft is the goal.

Other models are made for helicopter use (different connector became
standard in helicopters).

No connection to David Clark.  Just a satisfied customer.

73
John AF6QO

On 6/11/2017 2:44 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

Hmmm ... I've had it for several years and it saw some use before I got
it but I doubt it's old enough to be a carbon mic like the WW2 T-17.

I just assumed the "noise cancelling" part applied to the headphones.  I
didn't know it might apply to the mic.  There's no external noise in my
shack to cancel anyway.

The connector is round and the contacts stick out of the face.  I think
there are 6, maybe Headphones, Mic, and PTT?  There's a push-switch in
the cable.  It looks like the connector fits over the panel connector
and you twist is to lock it ... like a BNC.  I don't think the
headphones are stereo which is a big negative with my K3.

I was just curious.  This sounds like a project for some time when I
have exactly nothing else to do. [:-)  Thanks for the info

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 6/11/17 1:51 PM, Jack Spitznagel wrote:

Fred,

I have a widget that adapts a Sennheiser S1 av-noise canceler to my
KX3. Use it for hi noise situations and it works like charm, even
Massey-Ferguson mobile.
Try it with the David Clarks.
Was connector a mismatched size pair of phone jacks or a complex
military looking connector?

Jack -KD4IZ



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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Dwight Anderson]

Hello Fred;

I did not find much information on the web about using aviation headsets on
ham radios.   However if you search for using these headsets with gamming
computers, there is a lot more information.

Eventually I found the following information.

I was surprised how much I like the noise cancellation and the quality of
the sound.  I have a window fan running in my shack in the summer. 

I found the following adapter that worked for my KX3 and a Bose Aviation
headset.  At least for my headset the noise cancelation is only the
earphones not the microphone.  


http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/general-aviation-twin-plugs-to-pc-headset-a
dapter.html?___SID=U

http://www.pilotshop.com/catalog/pspages/pilotUSA40.php

or here

I did find a schematic on the web but never tried to build it.

https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/content.php?1985-How-ToAdapt-Aviation-Headset
s-To-Computers

Much Regards
Dwight
WM5F

snip **
Just curious ... I inherited a David Clark noise cancelling aviation
headset/mic from a neighbor who was a US Forest Service pilot.  I've never
tried it, the connector is strange.  


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Re: [Elecraft] mic - David Clark

[John Severyn]

Hi Fred,
Aviation headsets come with a variety of mikes, some dynamic, but most 
today are electret.  "Noise Cancelling" in aviation lingo usually means 
some sort of seal over or in the ear.  "Electronic Noise Cancelling" 
means the earpieces have active noise cancelling circuitry in addition 
to the ear-seal.  (the seal can be over the ear or in the ear, like a 
hearing aid, but most David Clark models are "over the ear").  The 
microphone is also most probably of a noise cancelling design.

The David Clark line is considered to be fairly high quality and has 
been around for a long time, since 1941.  They make a wide variety of 
gear, from G-suits, high altitude pressure suits, helmets, headsets etc.

http://www.davidclarkcompany.com/aviation/fixed-wing-passive.php

Various connectors are available, from LEMO to larger phone jacks and 
some specialized models.

The above link is for their present line of fixed wing headsets.  I have 
several pairs of older H10-40 units, no longer made.  The mike is a 
electret with very good noise cancelling and made to perform in a very 
high noise environment, with passive noise reduction, over the ear 
seals.  Fidelity is not the goal.  Voice communication in a very high 
noise environment of a piston engine propellor aircraft is the goal.

Other models are made for helicopter use (different connector became 
standard in helicopters).

No connection to David Clark.  Just a satisfied customer.

73
John AF6QO

On 6/11/2017 2:44 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> Hmmm ... I've had it for several years and it saw some use before I got 
> it but I doubt it's old enough to be a carbon mic like the WW2 T-17.
> 
> I just assumed the "noise cancelling" part applied to the headphones.  I 
> didn't know it might apply to the mic.  There's no external noise in my 
> shack to cancel anyway.
> 
> The connector is round and the contacts stick out of the face.  I think 
> there are 6, maybe Headphones, Mic, and PTT?  There's a push-switch in 
> the cable.  It looks like the connector fits over the panel connector 
> and you twist is to lock it ... like a BNC.  I don't think the 
> headphones are stereo which is a big negative with my K3.
> 
> I was just curious.  This sounds like a project for some time when I 
> have exactly nothing else to do. [:-)  Thanks for the info
> 
> 73,
> 
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
> 
> On 6/11/17 1:51 PM, Jack Spitznagel wrote:
>> Fred,
>>
>> I have a widget that adapts a Sennheiser S1 av-noise canceler to my 
>> KX3. Use it for hi noise situations and it works like charm, even 
>> Massey-Ferguson mobile.
>> Try it with the David Clarks.
>> Was connector a mismatched size pair of phone jacks or a complex 
>> military looking connector?
>>
>> Jack -KD4IZ
>>
>>
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Brian Denley]

I agree on the Koss.  It cost me less than $40 and audio reports are all good.  
BTW, I also like my old Astatic 10DA on SSB.

Brian 
KB1VBF
Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 11, 2017, at 3:55 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 6/11/2017 2:45 PM, kevino z wrote:
>> Although headsets like my Heil Pro 7 may be more money, am I really
>> "wasting" money on buying a "fancy brand name"  considering the
>> unit consists of mic and incredible speakers?
> 
> Yes, at about $250 retail (plus adapter cable), the Pro 7 is more than
> five times as expensive as the Yamaha CM-500 (electret mic), Koss SB40
> (dynamic mic) or SB45 (electret mic) headsets.   Both the Yamaha and
> Koss headsets have outstanding 120 Ohm headset drivers with sensitivity
> rated at 96dB/mW and microphones well tailored for voice work.  Heil
> does not even publish the impedance or sensitivity for their headset
> drivers!
> 
> For the price of a Heil Pro 7 one could get a Broadcast headset like
> the Audio Technica BPHS1 ($199), Sennheiser HMD280 ($249) or Shure
> BRH440M ($249) - all of which are significantly higher quality than
> the Pro7 (and field proven).
> 
> 73,
> 
>   ... Joe, W4TV
> 
> 
>> On 6/11/2017 2:45 PM, kevino z wrote:
>> Although headsets like my Heil Pro 7 may be more money, am I really 
>> "wasting" money on buying a "fancy brand name"  considering the unit 
>> consists of mic and incredible speakers? It is a complete package. Besides 
>> the amazing electret mic, the sound from the headphones helps me to enjoy 
>> the hobby more and allows me to pick out signals I would not be able to 
>> without them. I don't think you meant to, but your post came off as if we 
>> bought some snake oil.
>> -Kevin (KK4YEL)
>> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number 
>> of electrons were terribly inconvenienced !
>>> On Jun 11, 2017, at 10:41, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Bob and Jim have excellent points.
>>> 
>>> There is one advantage for the electret mic compared to a dynamic
>>> mic.  Electrets are generally 26 dB "hotter" than a dynamic mic
>>> and thus are much more resistant to common mode RF feedback and
>>> magnetic coupling.  However, that assumes the transceiver is

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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[GRANT YOUNGMAN]

In one way or another I agree with all sides of this discussion.

As to audio quality on a typical ham SSB transceiver, whether you have a 
Neumann M150 Tube or a  3+ orders of magnitude less costly $5 RatShack (when 
there was a RatShack) condenser cartridge, it’s unlikely the guy on the other 
end will notice the difference, since his bandwidth is probably set to 2.x KHz 
and the band is not pristinely quiet.  You may feel better, you might sound 
absolutely fabulous on your audio chain or local transmit monitor, but the 
other guy isn’t going to care or notice.

Building something that you like?  Modifying something to work better for you?  
Whether it’s a mic or anything else .. that’s a good thing.  It’s instructive, 
personally satisfying, and can keep you busy and out of “low”places, which is 
something my wife highly encourages :-)

At any mic price point, no matter how fancy the external audio chain, I just 
wish there was a way to cure the age old issue (renewed emphasis on the 
Wouff-Hong perhaps?) of mic gain set too high on a rig overdriving an amp.  And 
in the midst of that, ops insisting on “eating” the microphone while speaking 
after having finely adjusted their TX EQ while NOT trying to swallow the mic.  
In so many ways, knowing how to USE a mic, is more important than how big the 
diaphragm is … 

At one time, I had a very large collection of microphones — cheap, expensive, 
condenser, dynamic, Elvis, not Elvis, new, vintage. Used them all here and 
there.   I’m down to 3 or so.  An RE-20 that I’ve had forever and was used for 
all of my now disassembled “studio n” AM/SSB stations through a Rane splitter, 
a D-104 because …. D-104 … and some day I might buy another Ranger, and the 
MH2/3 depending on which radio I’m using.  Oh, and a CM500 headset which I 
like, but which I rarely use because earbuds and the MH(x) hand mics are just 
less bulk to deal with on an outing to the beach.  


> On Jun 11, 2017, at 7:16 PM, Art Peters  wrote:
> 
> Jim,
> 
> I know better than to disagree with someone who knows what he is talking 
> about, to be open, I've read, studied and benefited from your work.  
> 

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342



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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Walter Underwood]

> On Jun 11, 2017, at 12:55 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:
> 
> […] Both the Yamaha and
> Koss headsets have outstanding 120 Ohm headset drivers with sensitivity
> rated at 96dB/mW and microphones well tailored for voice work.

Not sure I’d rate the Yamaha CM500 headset drivers as “outstanding”. When my 
Grado SR-60 headphones died (after 15 years), I tried using the CM500 for 
music. That idea lasted about a day before I ordered new Grado phones. The 
current SR60e model is $80, so not that different from the Yamaha in terms of 
cost.

The CM500 is perfectly fine for voice communication work.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Bill Frantz]

As Jim says, "For most cases...", But.

When I help provide communication for the Los Gatos Children's 
Holliday Parade, it is not "most cases". When operating next to 
the parade route, there is frequently a high school marching 
band going full blast just 20 feet away. The problem isn't in 
the RF link, which is 2M FM. It's in the AF link with QRM for 
both transmit and receive. The David Clark headset might be just 
the right thing for this kind of environment.


When foot mobile along the parade route, I use Sennenheiser 
noise canceling headphones plugged into a Yaesu MH-34 speaker 
mike which seems to be "good enough". The CM-500 headset works 
well for the net control station, which is a bit further away 
from the parade route.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 6/11/17 at 1:44 PM, j...@audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown) wrote:

True "noise cancelling" mics sound awful. They work on the 
principle of cancelling noise more than an inch or two from the 
mouth. SUPER noisy places like aircraft are the ONLY place to 
use them.


Most hams who have too much background noise either don't work 
the mic close enough (it should be an inch or two above and 
alongside the mouth), or have processing and/or mic gain turned 
up way too high.


---
Bill Frantz|"Web security is like medicine - trying to 
do good for

408-356-8506   |an evolved body of kludges" - Mark Miller
www.pwpconsult.com |

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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Art Peters]

Jim,

I know better than to disagree with someone who knows what he is talking about, 
to be open, I've read, studied and benefited from your work.  

The point that I'll say is that the Yamaha headset, which I did buy largely 
from your raving reviews, did a fine job, but were never as comfortable as my 
other headsets.  I do use them as a spare and for guest ops. In fact, if I wear 
them for more than a couple hours, I get a rather nasty headache...

So, I'd like to add to this conversation.  While we have great ability to 
leverage a wide variety of mics, for me at least, fit and comfort are equal.  


73 es God Bless,

Art / K0ACP

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 11, 2017, at 3:06 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
>> On Sun,6/11/2017 11:45 AM, kevino z wrote:
>> I don't think you meant to, but your post came off as if we bought some 
>> snake oil.
> 
> Heil IS snake oil. As audio professionals say about Bose, "better sound 
> through marketing."
> 
> The Yamaha CM500 and Koss SB45 are at least as good, and cost a LOT less.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] mic - David Clark

[Fred Jensen]

Hmmm ... I've had it for several years and it saw some use before I got 
it but I doubt it's old enough to be a carbon mic like the WW2 T-17.


I just assumed the "noise cancelling" part applied to the headphones.  I 
didn't know it might apply to the mic.  There's no external noise in my 
shack to cancel anyway.


The connector is round and the contacts stick out of the face.  I think 
there are 6, maybe Headphones, Mic, and PTT?  There's a push-switch in 
the cable.  It looks like the connector fits over the panel connector 
and you twist is to lock it ... like a BNC.  I don't think the 
headphones are stereo which is a big negative with my K3.


I was just curious.  This sounds like a project for some time when I 
have exactly nothing else to do. [:-)  Thanks for the info


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 6/11/17 1:51 PM, Jack Spitznagel wrote:

Fred,

I have a widget that adapts a Sennheiser S1 av-noise canceler to my KX3. Use it 
for hi noise situations and it works like charm, even Massey-Ferguson mobile.
Try it with the David Clarks.
Was connector a mismatched size pair of phone jacks or a complex military 
looking connector?

Jack -KD4IZ




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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Clay Autery]

I was simply answering the question that the man asked, Jim.  
Don't reckon I even alluded to it "working well".

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/11/2017 3:48 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On Sun,6/11/2017 1:39 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
>> If you can get the pinout, I don't see why it could not be made to
>> work
>
> It can be made to connect, no problem. But if it's a true
> noise-cancelling mic, it will sound awful. :)
>
> That's very different from a DIRECTIONAL mic, which has the
> approximate pattern of a 2-el Yagi. So it receives 3-6 dB less noise,
> but it also boosts the bass, which is a bad thing for audio "punch."
>
> The boom headset mics we've been discussing are omni-directional mics
> (all-directional). And no bass boost.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] mic settings for PR 781

[George Thornton]

I just got my K3 back from the factory after a repair and upgrade and have to 
re-set up my microphone.

I have the PR 781 microphone.  I was wondering what settings (mic gain, 
compression, TX equalization) people with this microphone have used for best 
results
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 1:44 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] mic

True "noise cancelling" mics sound awful. They work on the principle of
cancelling noise more than an inch or two from the mouth. SUPER noisy
places like aircraft are the ONLY place to use them.

Most hams who have too much background noise either don't work the mic
close enough (it should be an inch or two above and alongside the
mouth), or have processing and/or mic gain turned up way too high.

73, Jim K9YC

On Sun,6/11/2017 1:29 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> Just curious ... I inherited a David Clark noise cancelling aviation
> headset/mic from a neighbor who was a US Forest Service pilot. I've
> never tried it, the connector is strange. I'm not even sure I know
> where it is right now. Will it work with my K3 if I can find it and
> get the connector compatible? I know they're expensive.
>
> Maybe it will cancel the powerline noise on 80? [:-))
>
> 73,
>
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> On 6/11/17 12:55 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>
>> On 6/11/2017 2:45 PM, kevino z wrote:
>>> Although headsets like my Heil Pro 7 may be more money, am I really
>>> "wasting" money on buying a "fancy brand name" considering the
>>> unit consists of mic and incredible speakers?
>>
>> Yes, at about $250 retail (plus adapter cable), the Pro 7 is more than
>> five times as expensive as the Yamaha CM-500 (electret mic), Koss SB40
>> (dynamic mic) or SB45 (electret mic) headsets. Both the Yamaha and
>> Koss headsets have outstanding 120 Ohm headset drivers with sensitivity
>> rated at 96dB/mW and microphones well tailored for voice work. Heil
>> does not even publish the impedance or sensitivity for their headset
>> drivers!
>>
>> For the price of a Heil Pro 7 one could get a Broadcast headset like
>> the Audio Technica BPHS1 ($199), Sennheiser HMD280 ($249) or Shure
>> BRH440M ($249) - all of which are significantly higher quality than
>> the Pro7 (and field proven).
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>
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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Jack Spitznagel]

Fred,

I have a widget that adapts a Sennheiser S1 av-noise canceler to my KX3. Use it 
for hi noise situations and it works like charm, even Massey-Ferguson mobile. 
Try it with the David Clarks. 
Was connector a mismatched size pair of phone jacks or a complex military 
looking connector?

Jack -KD4IZ 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 11, 2017, at 15:29, Fred Jensen  wrote:
> 
> Just curious ... I inherited a David Clark noise cancelling aviation 
> headset/mic from a neighbor who was a US Forest Service pilot.  I've never 
> tried it, the connector is strange.  I'm not even sure I know where it is 
> right now.  Will it work with my K3 if I can find it and get the connector 
> compatible?  I know they're expensive.
> 
> Maybe it will cancel the powerline noise on 80? [:-))
> 
> 73,
> 
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
> 
>> On 6/11/17 12:55 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>> 
>>> On 6/11/2017 2:45 PM, kevino z wrote:
>>> Although headsets like my Heil Pro 7 may be more money, am I really
>>> "wasting" money on buying a "fancy brand name"  considering the
>>> unit consists of mic and incredible speakers?
>> 
>> Yes, at about $250 retail (plus adapter cable), the Pro 7 is more than
>> five times as expensive as the Yamaha CM-500 (electret mic), Koss SB40
>> (dynamic mic) or SB45 (electret mic) headsets.   Both the Yamaha and
>> Koss headsets have outstanding 120 Ohm headset drivers with sensitivity
>> rated at 96dB/mW and microphones well tailored for voice work. Heil
>> does not even publish the impedance or sensitivity for their headset
>> drivers!
>> 
>> For the price of a Heil Pro 7 one could get a Broadcast headset like
>> the Audio Technica BPHS1 ($199), Sennheiser HMD280 ($249) or Shure
>> BRH440M ($249) - all of which are significantly higher quality than
>> the Pro7 (and field proven).
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>>   ... Joe, W4TV
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Jim Brown]

On Sun,6/11/2017 1:39 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

If you can get the pinout, I don't see why it could not be made to
work


It can be made to connect, no problem. But if it's a true 
noise-cancelling mic, it will sound awful. :)


That's very different from a DIRECTIONAL mic, which has the approximate 
pattern of a 2-el Yagi. So it receives 3-6 dB less noise, but it also 
boosts the bass, which is a bad thing for audio "punch."


The boom headset mics we've been discussing are omni-directional mics 
(all-directional). And no bass boost.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Jim Brown]

True "noise cancelling" mics sound awful. They work on the principle of 
cancelling noise more than an inch or two from the mouth. SUPER noisy 
places like aircraft are the ONLY place to use them.


Most hams who have too much background noise either don't work the mic 
close enough (it should be an inch or two above and alongside the 
mouth), or have processing and/or mic gain turned up way too high.


73, Jim K9YC

On Sun,6/11/2017 1:29 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
Just curious ... I inherited a David Clark noise cancelling aviation 
headset/mic from a neighbor who was a US Forest Service pilot.  I've 
never tried it, the connector is strange.  I'm not even sure I know 
where it is right now.  Will it work with my K3 if I can find it and 
get the connector compatible?  I know they're expensive.


Maybe it will cancel the powerline noise on 80? [:-))

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 6/11/17 12:55 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


On 6/11/2017 2:45 PM, kevino z wrote:

Although headsets like my Heil Pro 7 may be more money, am I really
"wasting" money on buying a "fancy brand name"  considering the
unit consists of mic and incredible speakers?


Yes, at about $250 retail (plus adapter cable), the Pro 7 is more than
five times as expensive as the Yamaha CM-500 (electret mic), Koss SB40
(dynamic mic) or SB45 (electret mic) headsets.   Both the Yamaha and
Koss headsets have outstanding 120 Ohm headset drivers with sensitivity
rated at 96dB/mW and microphones well tailored for voice work. Heil
does not even publish the impedance or sensitivity for their headset
drivers!

For the price of a Heil Pro 7 one could get a Broadcast headset like
the Audio Technica BPHS1 ($199), Sennheiser HMD280 ($249) or Shure
BRH440M ($249) - all of which are significantly higher quality than
the Pro7 (and field proven).

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Clay Autery]

If you can get the pinout, I don't see why it could not be made to
work...  Just put the right connector on it...  I'd put a Y and two
connectors on it so I could plug it in the back...  I dig the clean
front face look.

My guess is that the connector was a proprietary one matching the
connector in his aircraft.  I've seen some odd ones.  :-)

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/11/2017 3:29 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> Just curious ... I inherited a David Clark noise cancelling aviation
> headset/mic from a neighbor who was a US Forest Service pilot.  I've
> never tried it, the connector is strange.  I'm not even sure I know
> where it is right now.  Will it work with my K3 if I can find it and
> get the connector compatible?  I know they're expensive.
>
> Maybe it will cancel the powerline noise on 80? [:-))
>
> 73,
>
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Matt Zilmer]

It might work, Fred.  Check this page: 
http://www.acousticom.com/2015/aviation-headset-information-specs/


I always thought that aviation headsets met some earlier mic standard 
(carbon?), but this page says that's not right.  Note that the actual 
headset speakers/transducrers have a rather high impedance, though I 
suspect they may work with a K3S anyway.


Someone else can chime on a load of 300 ohms using the K3S's headphone 
driver circuit. My DCs are way too buried to find and check this right now.


73,

matt W6NIA

On 6/11/2017 1:29 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
Just curious ... I inherited a David Clark noise cancelling aviation 
headset/mic from a neighbor who was a US Forest Service pilot.  I've 
never tried it, the connector is strange.  I'm not even sure I know 
where it is right now.  Will it work with my K3 if I can find it and 
get the connector compatible?  I know they're expensive.


Maybe it will cancel the powerline noise on 80? [:-))

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 6/11/17 12:55 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


On 6/11/2017 2:45 PM, kevino z wrote:

Although headsets like my Heil Pro 7 may be more money, am I really
"wasting" money on buying a "fancy brand name"  considering the
unit consists of mic and incredible speakers?


Yes, at about $250 retail (plus adapter cable), the Pro 7 is more than
five times as expensive as the Yamaha CM-500 (electret mic), Koss SB40
(dynamic mic) or SB45 (electret mic) headsets.   Both the Yamaha and
Koss headsets have outstanding 120 Ohm headset drivers with sensitivity
rated at 96dB/mW and microphones well tailored for voice work. Heil
does not even publish the impedance or sensitivity for their headset
drivers!

For the price of a Heil Pro 7 one could get a Broadcast headset like
the Audio Technica BPHS1 ($199), Sennheiser HMD280 ($249) or Shure
BRH440M ($249) - all of which are significantly higher quality than
the Pro7 (and field proven).

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


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--
"A delay is better than a disaster."
-- unknown

Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
[Shiraz]

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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Fred Jensen]

Just curious ... I inherited a David Clark noise cancelling aviation 
headset/mic from a neighbor who was a US Forest Service pilot.  I've 
never tried it, the connector is strange.  I'm not even sure I know 
where it is right now.  Will it work with my K3 if I can find it and get 
the connector compatible?  I know they're expensive.


Maybe it will cancel the powerline noise on 80? [:-))

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 6/11/17 12:55 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


On 6/11/2017 2:45 PM, kevino z wrote:

Although headsets like my Heil Pro 7 may be more money, am I really
"wasting" money on buying a "fancy brand name"  considering the
unit consists of mic and incredible speakers?


Yes, at about $250 retail (plus adapter cable), the Pro 7 is more than
five times as expensive as the Yamaha CM-500 (electret mic), Koss SB40
(dynamic mic) or SB45 (electret mic) headsets.   Both the Yamaha and
Koss headsets have outstanding 120 Ohm headset drivers with sensitivity
rated at 96dB/mW and microphones well tailored for voice work. Heil
does not even publish the impedance or sensitivity for their headset
drivers!

For the price of a Heil Pro 7 one could get a Broadcast headset like
the Audio Technica BPHS1 ($199), Sennheiser HMD280 ($249) or Shure
BRH440M ($249) - all of which are significantly higher quality than
the Pro7 (and field proven).

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Bill]

After having tinkered with many different kinds of mics on the K3 - I 
feel very confident in saying that a K3 can make ANY mic sound great. It 
is all about learning to use the menu settings and not about how much 
you spend for the microphone.


This is not to say that some microphones are not physically better 
built, or may look better to the beholder. It is only about how they can 
be made to sound.


Bill W2BLC K3-Line

--
Many of life's problems can be solved by simply deciding what
we can do without. - John Dolan

--
Many of life's problems can be solved by simply deciding what
we can do without. - John Dolan

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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 6/11/2017 2:45 PM, kevino z wrote:

Although headsets like my Heil Pro 7 may be more money, am I really
"wasting" money on buying a "fancy brand name"  considering the
unit consists of mic and incredible speakers?


Yes, at about $250 retail (plus adapter cable), the Pro 7 is more than
five times as expensive as the Yamaha CM-500 (electret mic), Koss SB40
(dynamic mic) or SB45 (electret mic) headsets.   Both the Yamaha and
Koss headsets have outstanding 120 Ohm headset drivers with sensitivity
rated at 96dB/mW and microphones well tailored for voice work.  Heil
does not even publish the impedance or sensitivity for their headset
drivers!

For the price of a Heil Pro 7 one could get a Broadcast headset like
the Audio Technica BPHS1 ($199), Sennheiser HMD280 ($249) or Shure
BRH440M ($249) - all of which are significantly higher quality than
the Pro7 (and field proven).

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 6/11/2017 2:45 PM, kevino z wrote:

Although headsets like my Heil Pro 7 may be more money, am I really "wasting" money on 
buying a "fancy brand name"  considering the unit consists of mic and incredible 
speakers? It is a complete package. Besides the amazing electret mic, the sound from the headphones 
helps me to enjoy the hobby more and allows me to pick out signals I would not be able to without 
them. I don't think you meant to, but your post came off as if we bought some snake oil.

-Kevin (KK4YEL)

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of 
electrons were terribly inconvenienced !


On Jun 11, 2017, at 10:41, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:


Bob and Jim have excellent points.

There is one advantage for the electret mic compared to a dynamic
mic.  Electrets are generally 26 dB "hotter" than a dynamic mic
and thus are much more resistant to common mode RF feedback and
magnetic coupling.  However, that assumes the transceiver is
designed for the higher input level and properly reduces gain
before the mic gain control.

Mics of any kind - dynamic or condenser/electret - with wide frequency
response are completely wasted for amateur radio (or any communications
application).  You really want a clean 200 Hz - 4 Hz response.  Lower
frequencies cause distortion and waste power, higher frequencies are
simply lost in the "channel noise".

Like Bob and Jim, I spent my professional life in the recording and
broadcast industries.  Amateurs waste far too much on over spec'd
microphones and fancy "brand name" advertising campaigns.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV



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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Jim Brown]

On Sun,6/11/2017 11:45 AM, kevino z wrote:

I don't think you meant to, but your post came off as if we bought some snake 
oil.


Heil IS snake oil. As audio professionals say about Bose, "better sound 
through marketing."


The Yamaha CM500 and Koss SB45 are at least as good, and cost a LOT less.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[kevino z]

Although headsets like my Heil Pro 7 may be more money, am I really "wasting" 
money on buying a "fancy brand name"  considering the unit consists of mic and 
incredible speakers? It is a complete package. Besides the amazing electret 
mic, the sound from the headphones helps me to enjoy the hobby more and allows 
me to pick out signals I would not be able to without them. I don't think you 
meant to, but your post came off as if we bought some snake oil.

-Kevin (KK4YEL)

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of 
electrons were terribly inconvenienced !

> On Jun 11, 2017, at 10:41, Joe Subich, W4TV  wrote:
> 
> 
> Bob and Jim have excellent points.
> 
> There is one advantage for the electret mic compared to a dynamic
> mic.  Electrets are generally 26 dB "hotter" than a dynamic mic
> and thus are much more resistant to common mode RF feedback and
> magnetic coupling.  However, that assumes the transceiver is
> designed for the higher input level and properly reduces gain
> before the mic gain control.
> 
> Mics of any kind - dynamic or condenser/electret - with wide frequency
> response are completely wasted for amateur radio (or any communications
> application).  You really want a clean 200 Hz - 4 Hz response.  Lower
> frequencies cause distortion and waste power, higher frequencies are
> simply lost in the "channel noise".
> 
> Like Bob and Jim, I spent my professional life in the recording and
> broadcast industries.  Amateurs waste far too much on over spec'd
> microphones and fancy "brand name" advertising campaigns.
> 
> 73,
> 
>   ... Joe, W4TV
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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Jim Brown]

On Sun,6/11/2017 11:20 AM, Brian Denley wrote:

Bob:
I actually need the preamp with some mics, especially the dynamics  I don't 
have a K3.   My K2 doesn't have much mic gain.  My other rigs do.


Yes, that's a known issue. MANY years ago I worked out a simple mod for 
the K2 to add 6-8 dB of gain for a dynamic mic and add some LF rolloff. 
I think W3FPR has notes on it. There are other mods further along the 
signal chain, but they are not as simple.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Brian Denley]

Bob:
I actually need the preamp with some mics, especially the dynamics  I don't 
have a K3.   My K2 doesn't have much mic gain.  My other rigs do.

Brian 
KB1VBF
Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 11, 2017, at 9:29 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> On Jim's points, I fully agree.  It seems hams are prone to over complicate a 
> rather simple issue.  There's more than adequate mike gain in the K3S, thus I 
>  find no technical reason for the use of an external preamp.   The internal 
> EQ of the K3S again is most adequate to correctly tailor communications 
> audio, even ESSB.
> 
> I've found mike technique to be a very important factor in good quality 
> audio.  From personal observations, many hams have and use poor mike 
> technique.The mike-to-mouth position is most critical and will vary with 
> different mikes.
> 
> Like Jim, I'm a retired recording studio engineer and a live stage 
> performance engineer.  Nothing but experience and learning from the experts 
> will improve what you do.
> 
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
> 
>> On 6/11/2017 1:06 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>> On Sat,6/10/2017 8:02 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
>>> Customized large capsule condenser mic on a Heil PL2T boom using ONYX
>>> Blackjack for power supply/control.
>> 
>> Sorry, but you guys are WAY over the edge on this. As a retired recording 
>> engineer, I own a bunch of great large and small diaphragm mics, both 
>> condensers and dynamics, that put these mics to shame, but I wouldn't waste 
>> any of them in a ham station. I'm VERY happy with a Yamaha CM500 since W6XU 
>> turned me on to it around 2009, at a fraction of the cost. It's plugged 
>> straight into the rear panel mic jack of my K3s (plural, not the new K3S). 
>> Any decent electret will work as well, especially with the EQ built into a 
>> K3, K3S, KX3, KX2. Those large diaphragm mics are great for when I'm 
>> recording a symphony orchestra or a great jazz big band, but they are a 
>> waste in the ham shack.
>> 
>> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Milverton M. Swire via Elecraft]

Am I the only one here that is thinking.Why the CHASTISEMENT?!!!Clay did a 
little bit of "Experimenting" and! He is quickly, and promptly reminded thathe 
has broken PROTOCOL!
Isn't Ham Radio about Experimenting? 

73 Milverton / W9MMS.

  From: Clay Autery <caut...@montac.com>
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 10:01 AM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] mic
   
Jim, we've already had this discussion.  

Man asked me what I was running, and I told him.  I like it.  It's a
wonderful mic.  It does the job. well!
I like nice things.  Not like I'm trying to use it on a DXpedition. 

I find pleasure in having, using, and BUILDING nice things.  It's not
about the money or doing the job If I wanted that, I'd still be
working a J-O-B.

As my Mamaw used to say, "Clay, that's why they make different flavors
of ice cream."

Have a great day!  

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/11/2017 1:06 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On Sat,6/10/2017 8:02 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
>> Customized large capsule condenser mic on a Heil PL2T boom using ONYX
>> Blackjack for power supply/control.
>
> Sorry, but you guys are WAY over the edge on this. As a retired
> recording engineer, I own a bunch of great large and small diaphragm
> mics, both condensers and dynamics, that put these mics to shame, but
> I wouldn't waste any of them in a ham station. I'm VERY happy with a
> Yamaha CM500 since W6XU turned me on to it around 2009, at a fraction
> of the cost. It's plugged straight into the rear panel mic jack of my
> K3s (plural, not the new K3S). Any decent electret will work as well,
> especially with the EQ built into a K3, K3S, KX3, KX2. Those large
> diaphragm mics are great for when I'm recording a symphony orchestra
> or a great jazz big band, but they are a waste in the ham shack.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Clay Autery]

See my earlier responses to both gentlemen.  

1) Frequency response  yep, understand and agree.  One of the things
I learned from one of Jim's papers as a matter of fact.  Which is why I
modified the mic design slightly to produce a frequency response curve
more suited to amateur radio and as clean as I could possibly make it
within my resources.  Thanks, Jim.
2) Also why I use Jim's recommendations for TX EQ on the K3s as a
starting place to NOT waste power.  Thanks again, Jim!

I don't consider it EVER a "waste" when I 1) learn new stuff, and 2)
have fun... which of of course my primary motivation for doing ANY of
this in the first place.
And the "brand name" on my microphone is "Autery" or "KY5G".  

Have a super Sunday!!

__
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 6/11/2017 9:39 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> Mics of any kind - dynamic or condenser/electret - with wide frequency
> response are completely wasted for amateur radio (or any communications
> application).  You really want a clean 200 Hz - 4 Hz response.  Lower
> frequencies cause distortion and waste power, higher frequencies are
> simply lost in the "channel noise".
>
> Like Bob and Jim, I spent my professional life in the recording and
> broadcast industries.  Amateurs waste far too much on over spec'd
> microphones and fancy "brand name" advertising campaigns.
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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Raymond Sills]

Hi Gang:


I'll add my agreement with what other professionals have said.  And, I'm a 
retired Technical Supervisor for Audio and Post Production at CBS-TV.  We had a 
ton of really good microphones at our disposal.  But I use the MH3 with my KX3 
for those rare times I use a voice mode.  Most of the time, I operate CW.  :)  
If I did more voice operating, I'd get that Yamaha headset/mic combo.


73 de Ray
K2ULR
KX3 #211






-Original Message-
From: Joe Subich, W4TV <li...@subich.com>
To: elecraft <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Sun, Jun 11, 2017 10:40 am
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] mic


Bob and Jim have excellent points.

There is one advantage for the electret mic compared to a dynamic
mic.  Electrets are generally 26 dB "hotter" than a dynamic mic
and thus are much more resistant to common mode RF feedback and
magnetic coupling.  However, that assumes the transceiver is
designed for the higher input level and properly reduces gain
before the mic gain control.

Mics of any kind - dynamic or condenser/electret - with wide frequency
response are completely wasted for amateur radio (or any communications
application).  You really want a clean 200 Hz - 4 Hz response.  Lower
frequencies cause distortion and waste power, higher frequencies are
simply lost in the "channel noise".

Like Bob and Jim, I spent my professional life in the recording and
broadcast industries.  Amateurs waste far too much on over spec'd
microphones and fancy "brand name" advertising campaigns.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 6/11/2017 9:29 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
> On Jim's points, I fully agree.  It seems hams are prone to over 
> complicate a rather simple issue.  There's more than adequate mike gain 
> in the K3S, thus I  find no technical reason for the use of an external 
> preamp.   The internal EQ of the K3S again is most adequate to correctly 
> tailor communications audio, even ESSB.
> 
> I've found mike technique to be a very important factor in good quality 
> audio.  From personal observations, many hams have and use poor mike 
> technique.The mike-to-mouth position is most critical and will vary 
> with different mikes.
> 
> Like Jim, I'm a retired recording studio engineer and a live stage 
> performance engineer.  Nothing but experience and learning from the 
> experts will improve what you do.
> 
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/11/2017 1:06 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
>> On Sat,6/10/2017 8:02 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
>>> Customized large capsule condenser mic on a Heil PL2T boom using ONYX
>>> Blackjack for power supply/control.
>>
>> Sorry, but you guys are WAY over the edge on this. As a retired 
>> recording engineer, I own a bunch of great large and small diaphragm 
>> mics, both condensers and dynamics, that put these mics to shame, but 
>> I wouldn't waste any of them in a ham station. I'm VERY happy with a 
>> Yamaha CM500 since W6XU turned me on to it around 2009, at a fraction 
>> of the cost. It's plugged straight into the rear panel mic jack of my 
>> K3s (plural, not the new K3S). Any decent electret will work as well, 
>> especially with the EQ built into a K3, K3S, KX3, KX2. Those large 
>> diaphragm mics are great for when I'm recording a symphony orchestra 
>> or a great jazz big band, but they are a waste in the ham shack.
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Clay Autery]

Well, in my admittedly inferior level of "studio engineering" skills and
experience, I must be the proverbial "blind hog", because I seemed to
have "accidentally" "tripped across" a combination and setup that does
the job well.  

As I told Jim, today and the last time we had this discussion.  Man
asked me what I run, and I told him.
For some folks, it's not just about doing it cheaply, not about doing it
efficiently, etc, etc...
Everyone has their own reasons why they do what they do.
I "built" and customized this mic because I wanted to do it.  It was
FUN, and that's why I use my increasingly limited time on this earth in
amateur radio.  To have fun.  

It was an excellent academic and skills exercise, too.  And one simply
cannot argue with the results.  No less than 15 people have offered to
buy the setup sight unseen.

But, don't despair...  I still read everything you smart guys write, and
I use every little tidbit I can.  I've done my best to surround myself
with smart folks all my life.

e.g. in this instance, I used Jim's recommendations as a starting point
to set up the TX EQ on the K3s...  THANK YOU, Jim!  

73 and have a wonderful Sunday!

PS - When the mic project started, I was ALSO building a small studio
setup to do voice-over work.  

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/11/2017 8:29 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
> On Jim's points, I fully agree.  It seems hams are prone to over
> complicate a rather simple issue.  There's more than adequate mike
> gain in the K3S, thus I  find no technical reason for the use of an
> external preamp.   The internal EQ of the K3S again is most adequate
> to correctly tailor communications audio, even ESSB.
>
> I've found mike technique to be a very important factor in good
> quality audio.  From personal observations, many hams have and use
> poor mike technique.The mike-to-mouth position is most critical
> and will vary with different mikes.
>
> Like Jim, I'm a retired recording studio engineer and a live stage
> performance engineer.  Nothing but experience and learning from the
> experts will improve what you do.
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX

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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Clay Autery]

Jim, we've already had this discussion.  

Man asked me what I was running, and I told him.  I like it.  It's a
wonderful mic.  It does the job. well!
I like nice things.  Not like I'm trying to use it on a DXpedition. 

I find pleasure in having, using, and BUILDING nice things.  It's not
about the money or doing the job If I wanted that, I'd still be
working a J-O-B.

As my Mamaw used to say, "Clay, that's why they make different flavors
of ice cream."

Have a great day!  

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/11/2017 1:06 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On Sat,6/10/2017 8:02 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
>> Customized large capsule condenser mic on a Heil PL2T boom using ONYX
>> Blackjack for power supply/control.
>
> Sorry, but you guys are WAY over the edge on this. As a retired
> recording engineer, I own a bunch of great large and small diaphragm
> mics, both condensers and dynamics, that put these mics to shame, but
> I wouldn't waste any of them in a ham station. I'm VERY happy with a
> Yamaha CM500 since W6XU turned me on to it around 2009, at a fraction
> of the cost. It's plugged straight into the rear panel mic jack of my
> K3s (plural, not the new K3S). Any decent electret will work as well,
> especially with the EQ built into a K3, K3S, KX3, KX2. Those large
> diaphragm mics are great for when I'm recording a symphony orchestra
> or a great jazz big band, but they are a waste in the ham shack.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Bob and Jim have excellent points.

There is one advantage for the electret mic compared to a dynamic
mic.  Electrets are generally 26 dB "hotter" than a dynamic mic
and thus are much more resistant to common mode RF feedback and
magnetic coupling.  However, that assumes the transceiver is
designed for the higher input level and properly reduces gain
before the mic gain control.

Mics of any kind - dynamic or condenser/electret - with wide frequency
response are completely wasted for amateur radio (or any communications
application).  You really want a clean 200 Hz - 4 Hz response.  Lower
frequencies cause distortion and waste power, higher frequencies are
simply lost in the "channel noise".

Like Bob and Jim, I spent my professional life in the recording and
broadcast industries.  Amateurs waste far too much on over spec'd
microphones and fancy "brand name" advertising campaigns.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 6/11/2017 9:29 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
On Jim's points, I fully agree.  It seems hams are prone to over 
complicate a rather simple issue.  There's more than adequate mike gain 
in the K3S, thus I  find no technical reason for the use of an external 
preamp.   The internal EQ of the K3S again is most adequate to correctly 
tailor communications audio, even ESSB.


I've found mike technique to be a very important factor in good quality 
audio.  From personal observations, many hams have and use poor mike 
technique.The mike-to-mouth position is most critical and will vary 
with different mikes.


Like Jim, I'm a retired recording studio engineer and a live stage 
performance engineer.  Nothing but experience and learning from the 
experts will improve what you do.


73
Bob, K4TAX



On 6/11/2017 1:06 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

On Sat,6/10/2017 8:02 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

Customized large capsule condenser mic on a Heil PL2T boom using ONYX
Blackjack for power supply/control.


Sorry, but you guys are WAY over the edge on this. As a retired 
recording engineer, I own a bunch of great large and small diaphragm 
mics, both condensers and dynamics, that put these mics to shame, but 
I wouldn't waste any of them in a ham station. I'm VERY happy with a 
Yamaha CM500 since W6XU turned me on to it around 2009, at a fraction 
of the cost. It's plugged straight into the rear panel mic jack of my 
K3s (plural, not the new K3S). Any decent electret will work as well, 
especially with the EQ built into a K3, K3S, KX3, KX2. Those large 
diaphragm mics are great for when I'm recording a symphony orchestra 
or a great jazz big band, but they are a waste in the ham shack.


73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

On Jim's points, I fully agree.  It seems hams are prone to over 
complicate a rather simple issue.  There's more than adequate mike gain 
in the K3S, thus I  find no technical reason for the use of an external 
preamp.   The internal EQ of the K3S again is most adequate to correctly 
tailor communications audio, even ESSB.


I've found mike technique to be a very important factor in good quality 
audio.  From personal observations, many hams have and use poor mike 
technique.The mike-to-mouth position is most critical and will vary 
with different mikes.


Like Jim, I'm a retired recording studio engineer and a live stage 
performance engineer.  Nothing but experience and learning from the 
experts will improve what you do.


73
Bob, K4TAX



On 6/11/2017 1:06 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

On Sat,6/10/2017 8:02 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

Customized large capsule condenser mic on a Heil PL2T boom using ONYX
Blackjack for power supply/control.


Sorry, but you guys are WAY over the edge on this. As a retired 
recording engineer, I own a bunch of great large and small diaphragm 
mics, both condensers and dynamics, that put these mics to shame, but 
I wouldn't waste any of them in a ham station. I'm VERY happy with a 
Yamaha CM500 since W6XU turned me on to it around 2009, at a fraction 
of the cost. It's plugged straight into the rear panel mic jack of my 
K3s (plural, not the new K3S). Any decent electret will work as well, 
especially with the EQ built into a K3, K3S, KX3, KX2. Those large 
diaphragm mics are great for when I'm recording a symphony orchestra 
or a great jazz big band, but they are a waste in the ham shack.


73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Brian Denley]

Agreed Jim but I haven't spent much money on any of the mic stuff and I also 
used a cheap ($40) headset rather frequently.  I do, however, prefer the 
dynamic mics.  The condensers that I have tried seem to pick up way too much 
background noise.

Brian 
KB1VBF
Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 11, 2017, at 2:06 AM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
>> On Sat,6/10/2017 8:02 PM, Clay Autery wrote:
>> Customized large capsule condenser mic on a Heil PL2T boom using ONYX
>> Blackjack for power supply/control.
> 
> Sorry, but you guys are WAY over the edge on this. As a retired recording 
> engineer, I own a bunch of great large and small diaphragm mics, both 
> condensers and dynamics, that put these mics to shame, but I wouldn't waste 
> any of them in a ham station. I'm VERY happy with a Yamaha CM500 since W6XU 
> turned me on to it around 2009, at a fraction of the cost. It's plugged 
> straight into the rear panel mic jack of my K3s (plural, not the new K3S). 
> Any decent electret will work as well, especially with the EQ built into a 
> K3, K3S, KX3, KX2. Those large diaphragm mics are great for when I'm 
> recording a symphony orchestra or a great jazz big band, but they are a waste 
> in the ham shack.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Clay Autery]

RK-87

Interesting approach.  Liked my Behringer gear 

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/10/2017 11:18 PM, Brian Denley wrote:
> Clay:
> What condenser capsule did you put in the 990 housing.  Just curious.  I am 
> using the Behringer Shark DSP 110 as a preamp, low cut, and noise gate.  You 
> can find them used for about $50.  Turn off phantom power with the dynamic 
> mic.  I use the same setup with condensers - just turn on the phantom power.
> 73s
> Brian Denley
> KB1VBF
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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Jim Brown]

On Sat,6/10/2017 8:02 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

Customized large capsule condenser mic on a Heil PL2T boom using ONYX
Blackjack for power supply/control.


Sorry, but you guys are WAY over the edge on this. As a retired 
recording engineer, I own a bunch of great large and small diaphragm 
mics, both condensers and dynamics, that put these mics to shame, but I 
wouldn't waste any of them in a ham station. I'm VERY happy with a 
Yamaha CM500 since W6XU turned me on to it around 2009, at a fraction of 
the cost. It's plugged straight into the rear panel mic jack of my K3s 
(plural, not the new K3S). Any decent electret will work as well, 
especially with the EQ built into a K3, K3S, KX3, KX2. Those large 
diaphragm mics are great for when I'm recording a symphony orchestra or 
a great jazz big band, but they are a waste in the ham shack.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Brian Denley]

Clay:
What condenser capsule did you put in the 990 housing.  Just curious.  I am 
using the Behringer Shark DSP 110 as a preamp, low cut, and noise gate.  You 
can find them used for about $50.  Turn off phantom power with the dynamic mic. 
 I use the same setup with condensers - just turn on the phantom power.
73s
Brian Denley
KB1VBF
Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 10, 2017, at 11:58 PM, Clay Autery  wrote:
> 
> Well, it DOES take some fiddling to get it all the way it needs to be. 
> First thing is to make sure it is set for Cardoid and not OMNI...  The
> ONYX Blackjack gives me a little control as a pre, but I find that based
> on the parts and construction mods I made, I don't have extraneous noise
> pickup.
> 
> 73,
> 
> PS - My mic is built on the housing and chassis of an MXL-990 that was
> stripped and powder coated black.  THEN, I also back-filled the ENTIRE
> lower chassis to eliminate voids.  Then added internal sound/vibration
> absorption.  And a proper basket.
> I could probably sell 10 of them a month if I was so inclined.  I am
> not!  It was a LOT of work to do it PERFECTLY.
> 
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> 
>> On 6/10/2017 10:46 PM, Brian Denley wrote:
>> Tried both condenser and dynamic.  I have settled on the dynamic (mxl bcd-1) 
>> as it picks up a lot less background sounds.  The condensers work very well 
>> but even pick up my wife talking the the dog downstairs!  I do use a noise 
>> gate and preamp.
>> 
>> Brian 
>> KB1VBF
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Clay Autery]

Well, it DOES take some fiddling to get it all the way it needs to be. 
First thing is to make sure it is set for Cardoid and not OMNI...  The
ONYX Blackjack gives me a little control as a pre, but I find that based
on the parts and construction mods I made, I don't have extraneous noise
pickup.

73,

PS - My mic is built on the housing and chassis of an MXL-990 that was
stripped and powder coated black.  THEN, I also back-filled the ENTIRE
lower chassis to eliminate voids.  Then added internal sound/vibration
absorption.  And a proper basket.
I could probably sell 10 of them a month if I was so inclined.  I am
not!  It was a LOT of work to do it PERFECTLY.

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/10/2017 10:46 PM, Brian Denley wrote:
> Tried both condenser and dynamic.  I have settled on the dynamic (mxl bcd-1) 
> as it picks up a lot less background sounds.  The condensers work very well 
> but even pick up my wife talking the the dog downstairs!  I do use a noise 
> gate and preamp.
>
> Brian 
> KB1VBF

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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Clay Autery]

Yes, sir...  I get that.  I'm an old Infantryman/Aviator...  almost a
requirement for me to have GOOD headphones and properly tuned receive audio.

Someday I'll demo the high end headsets and see if it is anything I want
to do  I wore a CVC helmet for years with a boom mic with a lip
switch... (long time ago).  Not sure I want to do the headset again.  My
Sennheiser HD598SE head phones are about as heavy as I want to go
without custom fitting and contouring pads on the ears and head strap. 
And if I'm gonna be on a headset, I want a mic switch on it AND I want
it wireless.  :)

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/10/2017 10:45 PM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
> Personally I prefer the headset, have several. I do not sit still
> enough for a boom. My mike is always right in front of my face where
> it needs to be and I need the earphones to hear properly anyway.
>
>
>
> -- 
> Jim K0XU
> j...@rhodesend.net 

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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Brian Denley]

Tried both condenser and dynamic.  I have settled on the dynamic (mxl bcd-1) as 
it picks up a lot less background sounds.  The condensers work very well but 
even pick up my wife talking the the dog downstairs!  I do use a noise gate and 
preamp.

Brian 
KB1VBF
Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 10, 2017, at 11:02 PM, Clay Autery  wrote:
> 
> Customized large capsule condenser mic on a Heil PL2T boom using ONYX
> Blackjack for power supply/control.
> 
> Everyone pissed and moaned that it wouldn't work, was too much trouble,
> overkill, yadda , yadda, blah.
> 
> Love it!  At least 15 people have offered to buy it from me for twice
> what I have in it.  Response curve it "tilted" a bit towards use as a
> radio mic, but still useful for audio tracks, videos, et al. as well.
> 
> Works for me as nothing is ON my desk anymore but my keyboard and
> mouse.  (See my QRZ page for more info and/or email me).
> 
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> 
>> On 6/10/2017 9:39 PM, steve jobes via Elecraft wrote:
>> Hi I am a new owner of a K3 and I am curious what others are using for mics? 
>> A boom mic is my is my preference as opposed to a headset arrangement. Any 
>> info appreciated.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Steve W1DXH
>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Jim Rhodes]

Personally I prefer the headset, have several. I do not sit still enough
for a boom. My mike is always right in front of my face where it needs to
be and I need the earphones to hear properly anyway.

On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 10:02 PM, Clay Autery  wrote:

> Customized large capsule condenser mic on a Heil PL2T boom using ONYX
> Blackjack for power supply/control.
>
> Everyone pissed and moaned that it wouldn't work, was too much trouble,
> overkill, yadda , yadda, blah.
>
> Love it!  At least 15 people have offered to buy it from me for twice
> what I have in it.  Response curve it "tilted" a bit towards use as a
> radio mic, but still useful for audio tracks, videos, et al. as well.
>
> Works for me as nothing is ON my desk anymore but my keyboard and
> mouse.  (See my QRZ page for more info and/or email me).
>
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
>
> On 6/10/2017 9:39 PM, steve jobes via Elecraft wrote:
> > Hi I am a new owner of a K3 and I am curious what others are using for
> mics? A boom mic is my is my preference as opposed to a headset
> arrangement. Any info appreciated.
> >
> > 73,
> > Steve W1DXH
> >
>
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>



-- 
Jim K0XU
j...@rhodesend.net
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Re: [Elecraft] mic

[Clay Autery]

Customized large capsule condenser mic on a Heil PL2T boom using ONYX
Blackjack for power supply/control.

Everyone pissed and moaned that it wouldn't work, was too much trouble,
overkill, yadda , yadda, blah.

Love it!  At least 15 people have offered to buy it from me for twice
what I have in it.  Response curve it "tilted" a bit towards use as a
radio mic, but still useful for audio tracks, videos, et al. as well.

Works for me as nothing is ON my desk anymore but my keyboard and
mouse.  (See my QRZ page for more info and/or email me).

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/10/2017 9:39 PM, steve jobes via Elecraft wrote:
> Hi I am a new owner of a K3 and I am curious what others are using for mics? 
> A boom mic is my is my preference as opposed to a headset arrangement. Any 
> info appreciated.
>
> 73,
> Steve W1DXH
>

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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Settings

[Michael Walker]

Just to reinforce one very key part.

ALC settings are key.  Talk in a normal voice and then ensure that the ALC
is just kicking around 5 bars.  If it moves just once in a while, that is
OK and the proper setting.  ALC stands for automatic level control.  Once
it starts to move, the radio is already starting to adjust (down) the audio
level (sort of like a governor in a car/truck).  In effect, it is reducing
the mic gain dynamically.

>From there, you can play with the other settings.

Do NOT watch your watt meter even though that is what we all want to do.  :)

I hope that helps,

Mike va3mw


p.s.  Also on Elecraft's web page:  http://www.elecraft.com/K3/K3FAQ.htm#SSB
Power control and ALC metering

MIC GAIN SETTING: Adjust MIC gain for an ALC meter peak at around 5 to 7
bars during normal speech (rev. D owner's manual, page 28). This applies
even to TX TEST mode, meaning you can set it off-air. This indication does
not mean that you're "hitting the ALC really hard." When you get to around
5 bars, you'll be "tickling" the DSP's ALC. More on this below.

ALC METERING: The K3's ALC meter is a bar graph, not an analog meter, and
we felt that 5 bars would provide the right granularity at the target ALC
level. The 5th bar of the ALC scale is heavier than the others, serving as
a reminder of the this level.

ALC DESIGN GOAL: The K3 was designed to minimize transmit splatter and
other effects that plague some rigs. To achieve this, we apply all ALC
*before* the crystal filter, and minimize the application of ALC in
general. The levels have been carefully calibrated to that 5-to-7-bar level
mentioned above. The result is that the crystal and DSP filters remove the
types of artifacts that in many other rigs end up as transmitted wideband
noise or clicks. I believe this is why we continue to hear excellent
reports from K3 users regarding their on-the-air SSB signals. (We've also
heard, from some experts in the subject, that the K3's compression is among
the most effective they've ever measured.)

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 8:43 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX 
wrote:

> My experience is exactly as Don suggests.  Proper order in doing this is
> very important.  My experience is the CMP value as displayed should not
> exceed 10 on the meter scale.   I normally run about 2 to 3 bars.And
> yes listening to ones signal in TEST mode and using headphones does work
> for this evaluation.
>
> If, on the air, one gets comments about distortion or clipping or what
> ever, and if reducing power by 50% or more does clear it up, then I would
> strongly suspect RF getting back into the TX audio. That's a different
> issue to resolve.
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
> K3S s/n 10163
>
>
> On 10/22/2015 6:35 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> Have you set the mic gain properly?  If so, it should not clip.
>> You can do it in TX TEST mode so you do not bother your ham neighbors.
>>
>> First set the Compression to zero (important).
>> Then set the MIC GAIN to produce 6 to 7 bars on the ALC meter - that is
>> also important.
>> After that, set the compression as you desire.  You *can* do that by
>> listening to the MONitor if you are using a headset.
>>
>> Do it all in the order specified, and you should have good audio. Just
>> playing around with the gain and compression settings may not produce the
>> results you want.
>>
>> My guess is that you are running with too much compression (and perhaps
>> too little mic gain), and that could sound like 'clipping' on the far end
>> of the QSO.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Settings

[Don Wilhelm]

John,

Have you set the mic gain properly?  If so, it should not clip.
You can do it in TX TEST mode so you do not bother your ham neighbors.

First set the Compression to zero (important).
Then set the MIC GAIN to produce 6 to 7 bars on the ALC meter - that is 
also important.
After that, set the compression as you desire.  You *can* do that by 
listening to the MONitor if you are using a headset.


Do it all in the order specified, and you should have good audio. Just 
playing around with the gain and compression settings may not produce 
the results you want.


My guess is that you are running with too much compression (and perhaps 
too little mic gain), and that could sound like 'clipping' on the far 
end of the QSO.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/22/2015 6:34 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

I adjusted the TX equalizer per K9YC's recommendations and listened to
myself and I thought that I had this resolved.  Today I received unsoiled
complaints that my audio was clipping at the top.  One person even sent me a
video. I tried changing the high EQ settings and the mic and compression
settings and the issue exists. I tried the back mic jack and was told that
it may have made an improvement but the clipping still exists.  Reducing the
power had no effect.  For those that asked, FLTX SB is FL1 (2.80)




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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Settings

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

Hi John,

The proper settings of MIC gain, CMP, and TX equalizer settings vary
ENORMOUSLY from person to person. This is due to the enormous variation in
people's voices, including variation in inflection across international
settings. Using someone else's MIC/CMP/TXEQ settings is like borrowing
their shoes and hoping they fit.

If one has the KDVR3 installed, the easiest way to adjust audio settings
for quality is to record a message at a settings combination, and then play
it back over MON with TX set to TEST. You will be hearing what they hear,
IF the physical transmit circuitry does not have some problem needing
repair. Twiddle until it sounds clear and full.

Over the years I was constantly told my voice was "unclear" or "muddied".

After the K3 it took a while with the KDVR3 to figure out that the highs in
my voice were so soft, that anything on the band would cover them up. Using
the TX EQ to push the lows way down and the highs way up got my sibilant
energy up even with the rest of my voice. It was very easy to hear when
there was too much CMP. There is rather a difference between me in person
and me over the air after KDVR3. One friend said that didn't sound like me
over the radio, but whoever really was on the mic sounded very clear and
was easy to understand.

A spectrum display of the resultant voice shows that the energy is spread
fairly evenly from low to high, and the level is kept high.

Outside of the K3 I don't do any munging of the voice at all other than
keeping a relatively consistent volume, and managing pauses in sound files
for N1MM. I let the KDVR3 handle the audio shaping, compression and
equalization. That way I get the same thing from N1MM as from the hand
mike, as from the M1 through M4 message buttons.

I'll not be telling you my settings, because they are different for
everyone. Almost for certain you can't wear my shoes either.  :>)

73, Guy K2AV



On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 6:34 PM,  wrote:

> I adjusted the TX equalizer per K9YC's recommendations and listened to
> myself and I thought that I had this resolved.  Today I received unsoiled
> complaints that my audio was clipping at the top.  One person even sent me
> a
> video. I tried changing the high EQ settings and the mic and compression
> settings and the issue exists. I tried the back mic jack and was told that
> it may have made an improvement but the clipping still exists.  Reducing
> the
> power had no effect.  For those that asked, FLTX SB is FL1 (2.80)
>
> John KK9A - P40A
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: j...@kk9a.com [mailto:j...@kk9a.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 15:52
> To: 'elecraft@mailman.qth.net'
> Subject: Mic Settings
>
> I know this subject has come up many times.  I brought my new K3S to Aruba
> and it's my first time using it on SSB.  Before my trip I listened to
> myself
> on another radio and thought that I had the settings figured out, but now I
> have some doubts. Yesterday on 15m I received a comment that I was hard to
> zero beat on SSB.  Thinking it could be RFI, I switched from the small
> Powerwerx power supply to an old Astron and added some ferrites to the mic.
> Today I was on 10m a little and asked a couple of people how my audio was,
> one said basey and one said high.  I am using a Heil HC-4 element with no
> equalizer settings, mic 30 compression 18.  I wonder what setting other
> contestors are using with this element.
>
> John KK9A - P40A
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Settings

[Bob McGraw - K4TAX]

My experience is exactly as Don suggests.  Proper order in doing this is 
very important.  My experience is the CMP value as displayed should not 
exceed 10 on the meter scale.   I normally run about 2 to 3 bars.And 
yes listening to ones signal in TEST mode and using headphones does work 
for this evaluation.


If, on the air, one gets comments about distortion or clipping or what 
ever, and if reducing power by 50% or more does clear it up, then I 
would strongly suspect RF getting back into the TX audio. That's a 
different issue to resolve.


73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10163

 


On 10/22/2015 6:35 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

John,

Have you set the mic gain properly?  If so, it should not clip.
You can do it in TX TEST mode so you do not bother your ham neighbors.

First set the Compression to zero (important).
Then set the MIC GAIN to produce 6 to 7 bars on the ALC meter - that 
is also important.
After that, set the compression as you desire.  You *can* do that by 
listening to the MONitor if you are using a headset.


Do it all in the order specified, and you should have good audio. Just 
playing around with the gain and compression settings may not produce 
the results you want.


My guess is that you are running with too much compression (and 
perhaps too little mic gain), and that could sound like 'clipping' on 
the far end of the QSO.


73,
Don W3FPR 


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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Settings

[Jim Brown]

On Thu,10/22/2015 3:34 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

Today I received unsoiled
complaints that my audio was clipping at the top.


Your audio was very clean here and you were solid copy except for 
occasional QRM, but the path was not great, so not good enough for me to 
hear clip or splatter. EQ sounds very good for contesting.


Don has given you excellent advice about setting levels. Audio can be 
"clipping at the top" if a power amp is overdriven or not properly 
tuned. Some general things I've learned over the years, mostly from 
K6XX. One reason he made sure I learned it is that we're neighbors, and 
could make life miserable for each other if we goof. :)


1) NEVER depend on ALC between an amp and the rig to set drive level -- 
it's a recipe for clipping and splatter.  Always reduce output from the 
transceiver using the power setting control.


2) ALL power amps need to be matched to their load. A poorly matched amp 
will splatter or click.  Tube amps can be matched to reasonably 
well-matched antennas by the output networks within the amps.


3) Be sure you understand the difference between "auto-tune" which 
correctly finds the right match, and "auto-recall" which simply recalls 
the last settings you used on that band, and are only as good as that 
last tuning you did. Study the manual to figure out which kind of amp 
you have. :) I don't know the ACOM 2000. As I understand it, the Alpha 
87A is in the auto-recall category.


4) Solid state "no-tune" amps NEED an antenna tuner to match them to 
antennas that are not 1:1. Without that tuner, their distortion will 
increase and they will splatter or click.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Settings

[Bob McGraw - K4TAX]

While true, {although Jim and I rarely agree on anything}  what is heard 
via the MONitor is representative of those enhancements and adjustments 
the operator can apply.  In simple words, if it doesn't sound great 
there via the MONitor,  it certainly won't sound great after the TX SSB 
roofing filter either. There's no adjustments available to the 
operator after the TX SSB roofing filter.The other approach to 
evaluating ones transmitter is to use a 2nd receiver. That in itself 
will introduce other artifacts.


73
Bob, K4TAX
K3S s/n 10163

On 10/21/2015 11:54 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
This is NOT representative of what is heard on the other end because 
it doesn't include the TX SSB roofing filter. 



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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Settings

[Jim Brown]

On Tue,10/20/2015 5:54 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:

There's a much easier and much better way to "do it by yourself".

I use a free application Audacity for the process.  Connect the K3 to 
the computer using the same method as for digital modes. Activate the 
K3S in the TEST mode, turn up the MON gain to about 10 and activate 
the record mode in Audacity.  Record about 30 seconds, save the file 
and play it back.  Listen critically. 


This is NOT representative of what is heard on the other end because it 
doesn't include the TX SSB roofing filter.


A general comment overlooked by most.   The mike-to-mouth position and 
mike placement is much more critical than many realize.  I've found if 
one changes the mike-to-mouth distance, looks around the room or the 
desk while talking, or doesn't put the headset boom in the exact same 
place every time, one will have different sounding audio.  Thus it may 
sound great one time and not so good the next time.


Yes, this IS significant. Many mics (the class called cardioids) have a 
built-in bass boost when worked close. Many mics "pop" with sounds like 
"p" and "b", and this bass boost makes it worse.


I've posted a photo of how I wear my CM500 -- the mic just above the 
level of my nose AND to the left of my mouth. This does three things -- 
it minimizes pops and that bass boost, holds level more constant than if 
the mic were closer, and, equally important, gives me room to drink 
coffee and munch.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Settings

[Jim Brown]

Several places. Here's one.

http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf   Slide #173

73, Jim

On Wed,10/21/2015 10:03 PM, Hank Garretson wrote:

Where did you post the photo Jim?


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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Settings

[Bob McGraw - K4TAX]

Well again we get into conditions which typically manifest into Common 
Mode Current issues.  Depending on antenna, I always carry a coax jumper 
with a bunch, as in 50 to 75, of Ferrite beads of #43 and #73 material.  
This is always connected direct to the ANT connector on the radio. If 
you are using an OCFD antena then additional CMC choke will be needed at 
the feed point.  Most baluns are very inadequate in this regard, 
regardless of what the manufacturer says in print.  OCFD are noted to 
have CMC issues unless proper balun and CMC chokes are used.


See http://www.dj0ip.de/antennas/  for 
further info on baluns, common mode chokes and OCFD antennas.


On EQ, I suggest setting TX EQ: 50 Hz @ -16 dB, 100 Hz @  -12 Db, 200 Hz 
@ -6 dB with the remainder at 0 dB.


73
Bob, K4TAX

On 10/20/2015 10:51 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

I know this subject has come up many times.  I brought my new K3S to Aruba
and it's my first time using it on SSB.  Before my trip I listened to myself
on another radio and thought that I had the settings figured out, but now I
have some doubts. Yesterday on 15m I received a comment that I was hard to
zero beat on SSB.  Thinking it could be RFI, I switched from the small
Powerwerx power supply to an old Astron and added some ferrites to the mic.
Today I was on 10m a little and asked a couple of people how my audio was,
one said basey and one said high.  I am using a Heil HC-4 element with no
equalizer settings, mic 30 compression 18.  I wonder what setting other
contestors are using with this element.

John KK9A - P40A


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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Settings

[Jim Brown]

On Tue,10/20/2015 9:45 AM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote:
See http://www.dj0ip.de/antennas/  for 
further info on baluns, common mode chokes and OCFD antennas.


On EQ, I suggest setting TX EQ: 50 Hz @ -16 dB, 100 Hz @  -12 Db, 200 
Hz @ -6 dB with the remainder at 0 dB.


Bob,

John's at P40 for contesting, so he will want the more aggressive low 
cut that I've suggested. Also, he's dealing with real antennas, not OFCD. :)


As to the RFI possibility -- it may not be RFI at all, but rather a DC 
power related issue that SOUNDS like RFI. W8JI first told me about this.



John -- do you have an outboard box that is powered from the same 12V 
power supply as your rig, feeding TX audio to your rig?  If so, what you 
can be hearing is modulation of the IR drop on the black wire, which 
sounds like SSB on an AM detector. If you stick headphones between the 
two ends of the black wire running between the power supply and the 
transceiver, you'll hear it.


Some easy solutions, depending on your setup and resources. First, bond 
chassis-to-chassis of all interconnected boxes with short, fat copper. 
Second, get power for the audio accessory either from it's own wall 
wart, or from the transceiver end of the dc cable that feeds the 
transceiver.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Settings

[Jim Brown]

On Tue,10/20/2015 8:51 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

I am using a Heil HC-4 element with no
equalizer settings, mic 30 compression 18.


Hi John,

I'd be happy to listen to you on the air and talk you through adjustments.

Some suggestions. Ignore your numbers of 30 and 18 -- they are the wrong 
thing to look at. Start with TXEQ -- set the three lowest bands to 
maximum cut, take the 4th band down about 6 dB. Leave everything else 
set flat (0dB). Now, turn compression all the way down, and adjust your 
mic gain so that you see occasional peaks of full power. To get the 
right setting, you may need to temporarily increase VOX GAIN. Now, turn 
up compression so that on the compression METER, you see peaks of about 
10 dB. This is the way you want to run it.


This will get you in the ballpark, and it's time to get some signal 
reports. Also, if you're like me, you probably yell louder during the 
contest, so be prepared to turn the mic gain down to stay within those 
settings.


You will, of course, want to balance the live mic with recordings. The 
above assumes that the live mic is on the mic input and the computer is 
on the Line Input. That's how I work. So once you're adjusted for the 
live mic, you'll want to adjust computer playback to get the same 
indications of compression.


There's more to the computer gain adjustment. It's written up here, 
following the disucssion of computer sound cards.


http://k9yc.com/USB_Interfaces.pdf

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Settings

[Ian White]

K4TAX wrote:

>Well again we get into conditions which typically manifest into Common
>Mode Current issues.  Depending on antenna, I always carry a coax
jumper
>with a bunch, as in 50 to 75, of Ferrite beads of #43 and #73 material.

The most versatile problem-solvers are K9YC's favorite large #31 snap-on
beads. They are large enough to accept multiple turns (which greatly
boosts the CM impedance compared with beads) and can be snapped on to an
existing cable without removing any connectors, so it only takes a few
seconds to create a highly effective CM choke wherever in the station it
might be needed.

For more details, start here
 and then follow
the links to Jim's site and to G3TXQ's site. 

Don't leave home without at least two or three of these beads in your
baggage. 


73 from Ian GM3SEK


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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Settings

[David Cole]

Jim,
I would take you up on that if possible as well!!  Pick a time...
-- 
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net

For MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
For Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
For MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info


On Tue, 2015-10-20 at 09:36 -0700, Jim Brown wrote:
> On Tue,10/20/2015 8:51 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:
> > I am using a Heil HC-4 element with no
> > equalizer settings, mic 30 compression 18.
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> I'd be happy to listen to you on the air and talk you through adjustments.
> 
> Some suggestions. Ignore your numbers of 30 and 18 -- they are the wrong 
> thing to look at. Start with TXEQ -- set the three lowest bands to 
> maximum cut, take the 4th band down about 6 dB. Leave everything else 
> set flat (0dB). Now, turn compression all the way down, and adjust your 
> mic gain so that you see occasional peaks of full power. To get the 
> right setting, you may need to temporarily increase VOX GAIN. Now, turn 
> up compression so that on the compression METER, you see peaks of about 
> 10 dB. This is the way you want to run it.
> 
> This will get you in the ballpark, and it's time to get some signal 
> reports. Also, if you're like me, you probably yell louder during the 
> contest, so be prepared to turn the mic gain down to stay within those 
> settings.
> 
> You will, of course, want to balance the live mic with recordings. The 
> above assumes that the live mic is on the mic input and the computer is 
> on the Line Input. That's how I work. So once you're adjusted for the 
> live mic, you'll want to adjust computer playback to get the same 
> indications of compression.
> 
> There's more to the computer gain adjustment. It's written up here, 
> following the disucssion of computer sound cards.
> 
> http://k9yc.com/USB_Interfaces.pdf
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic Settings

[Bob McGraw - K4TAX]

There's a much easier and much better way to "do it by yourself".

I use a free application Audacity for the process.  Connect the K3 to 
the computer using the same method as for digital modes. Activate the 
K3S in the TEST mode, turn up the MON gain to about 10 and activate the 
record mode in Audacity.  Record about 30 seconds, save the file and 
play it back.  Listen critically.  Make the adjustments you believe 
necessary, and repeat the process until you get it sounding exactly as 
you desire to be heard over the air.  I find this method is much more 
accurate than using headphones and trying to listen to yourself while 
talking and listening at the same time.  The record/playback process 
does not consider the internal audio path between the mouth and voice 
and the ears but only presents what goes through the mike and the radio.


A general comment overlooked by most.   The mike-to-mouth position and 
mike placement is much more critical than many realize.  I've found if 
one changes the mike-to-mouth distance, looks around the room or the 
desk while talking, or doesn't put the headset boom in the exact same 
place every time, one will have different sounding audio.  Thus it may 
sound great one time and not so good the next time.


73
Bob, K4TAX

On 10/20/2015 4:47 PM, David Cole wrote:

Jim,
I would take you up on that if possible as well!!  Pick a time...
-- Thanks and 73's,

On Tue, 2015-10-20 at 09:36 -0700, Jim Brown wrote:

>On Tue,10/20/2015 8:51 AM,j...@kk9a.com  wrote:

> >I am using a Heil HC-4 element with no
> >equalizer settings, mic 30 compression 18.

>
>Hi John,
>
>I'd be happy to listen to you on the air and talk you through adjustments.



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Re: [Elecraft] Mic gain goes to zero using N1MM

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

In my shack I use LP-Bridge to provide virtual serial ports,
including one to the K3.


Does the problem occur if LP-Bridge is not running?  LP-Bridge
proxies commands and answers polling from its own "virtual K3".
Both are capable of causing abnormal operation, particularly
with N1MM Logger+ and another program such as NaP3 polling at
maximum data rates.

In addition to N1MMLogger+ what other applications are running when
this problem occurs?

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 9/9/2015 11:38 PM, K8TE wrote:

Bill,



Memory macros-nope.



All the N1MM macros are the "standard" button pushes for the DVK messages.
A raspberry Pi may be in the future for my station control now that an
inexpensive touchscreen is available.  But I will stick with N1MM+-K3
interface for now.  In my shack I use LP-Bridge to provide virtual serial
ports, including one to the K3.  However, this anomaly has appeared when
using my old Vista laptop with both N1MM Legacy and Plus.



A passive logger could possibly indicate the anomaly's source.  Any suggests
for a software logger?



Consider that some other command could also be mangled into MG 0. The
mangling can occur anywhere in the command.



What would be useful here is a passive logger for the RS-232 connection. It
would simply monitor the connection and log everything sent over it. It
sounds like a Raspberry Pi application to me, but I like to play software
that is near the hardware level. You could also do it with an Arduino, which
gets rid of the OS, but also makes display output harder. YMMV.



73 Bill AE6JV



Guy,



I don't believe I've indicated this is an analog problem.  It's most
obviously a software/firmware problem.  There is no "MG" command in the N1MM
DVK macros:



CATA1ASC SWT21;

CATA1ASC SWT31;

CATA1ASC SWT35;

CATA1ASC SWT39;



The only commonality between occurrences is N1MM (various versions) and a
pair of K3's with various firmware versions.  There are no common cables,
USB hubs, serial cards, computers, etc.  That is not to say that some errant
event occurs on rare occasions.  It is interesting to not nothing else goes
astray on the K3 when using N1MM.



Since the anomaly occurred with a K3, and another K3 owner had a similar
issue this year, I posted here first.  Next I'll give it a try on the N1MM+
e-mail group.  I'm watching an episode of Sherlock Holmes on PBS as I type
this message-what an appropriate coincidence, or is it?



73, Bill, K8TE



Since the mic gain, displayed in a digit format, is reported as
literally going to the digit zero, we must remember that everything
inside a dotted line within the K3 is entirely SDR. We must carefully
avoid our decades-ground-in tendency to think of troubles in our
familiar and comfortable analog fashion.



From: Iain MacDonnell - N6ML-2 [via Elecraft]
[mailto:ml-node+s365791n760736...@n2.nabble.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2015 6:38 PM
To: K8TE 
Subject: Re: Mic gain goes to zero using N1MM



On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 6:07 AM, K8TE <[hidden email]> wrote:

I have experienced this same problem over numerous N1MM versions (legacy

and

Plus).  It is very intermittent and I'm unable to identify a specific
command or cause.  It's happened to me on both my shack and portable
computers.  This symptom does not show up with my daily logger (N3FJP

ACLog)

but it has occurred with both of my K3's.

I use the "typical" K3 commands for either keying DVK memories or audio

from

my computers.  I don't use any of the mic gain command strings in N1MM+.


Is it possible that you have a macro associated with one of the memory
buttons('s programmable function), which sets the MIC gain, and one of
your lesser-used N1MM Logger messages is virtually pushing that button
(SWT/SWH)?

73,

 ~iain / N6ML
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic gain goes to zero using N1MM

[K8TE]

Yes Joe, it has happened on my old Toshiba with Windows Vista laptop running
N1MM by itself.  I don't run NaP3 currently on the shack PC on which I run
LP-Bridge.  There, I usually have Chrome open as well.  The anomaly occurred
once during this week's Phone Fray during which I also had an instance of IE
open.  On that computer, CPU cycles are not an issue.

 

This PC runs on Windows XP, soon to be replaced with a "modern" Dell and
Windows 8.1.  For communications with the K3, I run N1MM+ through LP-Bridge
via an on-board dual Serial port board.

 

I don't run LP-Bridge on my mobile/portable laptop.  I tried it once, but it
doesn't have sufficient horsepower.  With that computer I use a USB to dual
serial port adapter for K3 communications.  I have observed the anomaly on
both computers although it rarely occurs on either.  I'll put together a
more concise description for the N1MM+ reflector later today.

 

Both computers have anti-virus and firewall programs running simultaneously.
In their current configurations, neither has issues with CPU cycles during
contesting.  I use Startup Delayer to manage what and when programs come up
on boot to help manage CPU use.  That comes in handy during the rare
occurrence when a re-boot is necessary during a contest (always be
prepared).

 

I also run the VE7CC CC cluster client when the contest allows and I choose
to enter in the assisted class.  Again, the problem has occurred both with
VE7CC on and off.

 

Let me add my thanks to all who have responded to my question!  73, Bill,
K8TE

 

From: Joe Subich, W4TV-4 [via Elecraft]
[mailto:ml-node+s365791n7607374...@n2.nabble.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 6:52 AM
To: K8TE 
Subject: Re: Mic gain goes to zero using N1MM

 


> In my shack I use LP-Bridge to provide virtual serial ports, 
> including one to the K3. 

Does the problem occur if LP-Bridge is not running?  LP-Bridge 
proxies commands and answers polling from its own "virtual K3". 
Both are capable of causing abnormal operation, particularly 
with N1MM Logger+ and another program such as NaP3 polling at 
maximum data rates. 

In addition to N1MMLogger+ what other applications are running when 
this problem occurs? 

73, 

... Joe, W4TV 


On 9/9/2015 11:38 PM, K8TE wrote: 


> Bill, 
> 
> 
> 
> Memory macros-nope. 
> 
> 
> 
> All the N1MM macros are the "standard" button pushes for the DVK messages.

> A raspberry Pi may be in the future for my station control now that an 
> inexpensive touchscreen is available.  But I will stick with N1MM+-K3 
> interface for now.  In my shack I use LP-Bridge to provide virtual serial 
> ports, including one to the K3.  However, this anomaly has appeared when 
> using my old Vista laptop with both N1MM Legacy and Plus. 
> 
> 
> 
> A passive logger could possibly indicate the anomaly's source.  Any
suggests 
> for a software logger? 
> 
> 
> 
> Consider that some other command could also be mangled into MG 0. The 
> mangling can occur anywhere in the command. 
> 
> 
> 
> What would be useful here is a passive logger for the RS-232 connection.
It 
> would simply monitor the connection and log everything sent over it. It 
> sounds like a Raspberry Pi application to me, but I like to play software 
> that is near the hardware level. You could also do it with an Arduino,
which 
> gets rid of the OS, but also makes display output harder. YMMV. 
> 
> 
> 
> 73 Bill AE6JV 
> 
> 
> 
> Guy, 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe I've indicated this is an analog problem.  It's most 
> obviously a software/firmware problem.  There is no "MG" command in the
N1MM 
> DVK macros: 
> 
> 
> 
> CATA1ASC SWT21; 
> 
> CATA1ASC SWT31; 
> 
> CATA1ASC SWT35; 
> 
> CATA1ASC SWT39; 
> 
> 
> 
> The only commonality between occurrences is N1MM (various versions) and a 
> pair of K3's with various firmware versions.  There are no common cables, 
> USB hubs, serial cards, computers, etc.  That is not to say that some
errant 
> event occurs on rare occasions.  It is interesting to not nothing else
goes 
> astray on the K3 when using N1MM. 
> 
> 
> 
> Since the anomaly occurred with a K3, and another K3 owner had a similar 
> issue this year, I posted here first.  Next I'll give it a try on the
N1MM+ 
> e-mail group.  I'm watching an episode of Sherlock Holmes on PBS as I type

> this message-what an appropriate coincidence, or is it? 
> 
> 
> 
> 73, Bill, K8TE 
> 
> 
> 
> Since the mic gain, displayed in a digit format, is reported as 
> literally going to the digit zero, we must remember that everything 
> inside a dotted line within the K3 is entirely SDR. We must carefully 
> avoid our decades-ground-in tendency to think of troubles in our 
> familiar and comfortable analog fashion. 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Iain MacDonnell - N6ML-2 [via Elecraft] 
> [mailto:[hidden email]] 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2015 6:38 PM 
> To: K8TE <[hidden email]> 
> Subject: Re: Mic gain goes to zero using N1MM 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 

Re: [Elecraft] Mic gain goes to zero using N1MM

[K8TE]

I have experienced this same problem over numerous N1MM versions (legacy and
Plus).  It is very intermittent and I'm unable to identify a specific
command or cause.  It's happened to me on both my shack and portable
computers.  This symptom does not show up with my daily logger (N3FJP ACLog)
but it has occurred with both of my K3's.

I use the "typical" K3 commands for either keying DVK memories or audio from
my computers.  I don't use any of the mic gain command strings in N1MM+.

Are we the only two who have experienced this?  I've Googled this previously
but not found any threads on the subject.  I'm glad to read (sort of) I'm
not alone.  I have operated many hours (all of Field Day) without this
symptom appearing.  Yet, it happened a couple of times in last weekend's
Colorado QSO Party.  It's a mystery to me.

73, Bill, K8TE



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Re: [Elecraft] Mic gain goes to zero using N1MM

[KE1B]

On Sep 9, 2015, at 6:07 AM, K8TE  wrote:

> I have experienced this same problem over numerous N1MM versions (legacy and
> Plus).  It is very intermittent and I'm unable to identify a specific
> command or cause.  It's happened to me on both my shack and portable
> computers.  This symptom does not show up with my daily logger (N3FJP ACLog)
> but it has occurred with both of my K3's.
> 
> I use the "typical" K3 commands for either keying DVK memories or audio from
> my computers.  I don't use any of the mic gain command strings in N1MM+.
> 
> Are we the only two who have experienced this?  I've Googled this previously
> but not found any threads on the subject.  I'm glad to read (sort of) I'm
> not alone.  I have operated many hours (all of Field Day) without this
> symptom appearing.  Yet, it happened a couple of times in last weekend's
> Colorado QSO Party.  It's a mystery to me.
> 

It’s a mystery to me, too. When I lose transmit power (and once it goes, it’s 
gone until I do a power off/on or switch to ANT2 and back) I checked the Mic 
Gain and it was normal (31 for me). The power level was also at its proper 
setting. It has happened both using N1MM+ and my daily logger (MacloggerDX). I 
use NO CAT commands with MLDX. 

That is at a time of failure, I have a Mic Gain of 31, a Power level of 50W or 
so, I key the rig (footswitch), the K3S goes into Transmit Mode (Red LED, 
receiver goes off) but there is no power output shown, and no SWR shown (as 
would be if the antenna was disconnected externally). I hear myself perfectly 
well in the headset monitor, indicating there is a good connection from the 
microphone through to the radio. Just no output power. And as I said, switching 
to ANT2 and back to ANT1 brings all to normal, as does a power reset. To me, 
something is intermittent in the radio internals, but I have no idea what.

Elecraft advised me to try to reproduce the problem with a “no frills” setup: 
no computer, no amp, just the K3S into a dummy load. I’ll try this today, but 
of course with intermittent problems it may or may not recur.

-Rich KE1B

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Re: [Elecraft] Mic gain goes to zero using N1MM

[K8TE]

In my case, the Mic gain is normally set to 8-9 (CM500 headset).  The anomaly 
decreases the Mic Gain to zero.  I manually reset it to 8-9 which restores SSB 
power output to normal.  I haven’t tried any other actions to restore the Mic 
gain.  All indications I have this is a Mic Gain problem.

73, Bill, K8TE

 

From: KE1B [via Elecraft] [mailto:ml-node+s365791n7607327...@n2.nabble.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2015 9:20 AM
To: K8TE 
Subject: Re: Mic gain goes to zero using N1MM

 


On Sep 9, 2015, at 6:07 AM, K8TE <[hidden email]> wrote: 


> I have experienced this same problem over numerous N1MM versions (legacy and 
> Plus).  It is very intermittent and I'm unable to identify a specific 
> command or cause.  It's happened to me on both my shack and portable 
> computers.  This symptom does not show up with my daily logger (N3FJP ACLog) 
> but it has occurred with both of my K3's. 
> 
> I use the "typical" K3 commands for either keying DVK memories or audio from 
> my computers.  I don't use any of the mic gain command strings in N1MM+. 
> 
> Are we the only two who have experienced this?  I've Googled this previously 
> but not found any threads on the subject.  I'm glad to read (sort of) I'm 
> not alone.  I have operated many hours (all of Field Day) without this 
> symptom appearing.  Yet, it happened a couple of times in last weekend's 
> Colorado QSO Party.  It's a mystery to me. 
> 


It’s a mystery to me, too. When I lose transmit power (and once it goes, it’s 
gone until I do a power off/on or switch to ANT2 and back) I checked the Mic 
Gain and it was normal (31 for me). The power level was also at its proper 
setting. It has happened both using N1MM+ and my daily logger (MacloggerDX). I 
use NO CAT commands with MLDX. 

That is at a time of failure, I have a Mic Gain of 31, a Power level of 50W or 
so, I key the rig (footswitch), the K3S goes into Transmit Mode (Red LED, 
receiver goes off) but there is no power output shown, and no SWR shown (as 
would be if the antenna was disconnected externally). I hear myself perfectly 
well in the headset monitor, indicating there is a good connection from the 
microphone through to the radio. Just no output power. And as I said, switching 
to ANT2 and back to ANT1 brings all to normal, as does a power reset. To me, 
something is intermittent in the radio internals, but I have no idea what. 

Elecraft advised me to try to reproduce the problem with a “no frills” setup: 
no computer, no amp, just the K3S into a dummy load. I’ll try this today, but 
of course with intermittent problems it may or may not recur. 

-Rich KE1B 







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Re: [Elecraft] Mic gain goes to zero using N1MM

[Mike Reublin NF4L]

Well said!

73, Mike NF4L


> On Sep 9, 2015, at 5:32 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 11:29 AM, K8TE  wrote:
>> 
>> In my case, the Mic gain is normally set to 8-9 (CM500 headset).  The 
>> anomaly decreases the Mic Gain to zero.  I manually reset it to 8-9 which 
>> restores SSB power output to normal.  I haven’t tried any other actions to 
>> restore the Mic gain.  All indications I have this is a Mic Gain problem.
>> 
> 
> Since the mic gain, displayed in a digit format, is reported as
> literally going to the digit zero, we must remember that everything
> inside a dotted line within the K3 is entirely SDR. We must carefully
> avoid our decades-ground-in tendency to think of troubles in our
> familiar and comfortable analog fashion. I do include myself in this
> habit and sometimes catch myself going retrograde, having to do a
> brainwave CTL-ALT-DEL, and start over from the beginning.
> 
> This trouble is presenting inside the K3's SDR dotted line. Of the
> eight "pots" on six shaft centers on the left side K3 front panel, all
> those rotational functions *advise* the CPU of their state via
> multiplexed one and zero state data lines. There is no gain
> potentiometer inserted anywhere in the various audio paths, nor is
> there a steady state control voltage from a potentiometer controlling
> a linear pass transistor in the audio string anywhere, thank your
> lucky stars. Remember "scratchy" audio? Just another of the analog
> bugaboos happily banned forever by the K3's mostly SDR hybrid scheme.
> 
> The MIC control function uses a *shared* encoder assigned three
> separate unrelated settings. If the encoder or its physical data
> connection to the CPU was a problem, it would affect all three
> functions MIC, SPEED and DELAY on the front panel. I have heard of the
> encoder going bad and needing to be replaced. If the encoder is
> miscellaneously sending a string of "decrease" encoder signals, it
> should also happen in SPEED or DELAY mode. All the encoder can do is
> send increase or decrease signals. You would have your CW and VOX
> delays going to nothing, or your CW speed going to the 8 WPM minimum.
> 
> The CPU knows what function is currently "on the knob" and the static
> values in force for the three lower left encoder functions. Exactly
> one function at a time is currently assigned to the knob, and the CPU
> interprets a "decrease signal" accordingly. The decrease signal
> travels to the CPU over a multiplexed data line which is either there
> and properly working for many diverse functions or is not for all
> those functions.
> 
> Doesn't this really start to smell like a program issue? That gets you
> to the next thing -- if it is a firmware bug, then the trouble is
> present for ALL K3 users running the affected firmware version(s). And
> we should have lots of reports because every single user of the
> firmware could be experiencing the same problem intermittently.
> 
> The only program code that could isolate the trouble to a *few* users
> would have to be external to the K3. Is it possible for an external
> program to set the MIC gain? This of course is impossible in an analog
> radio priced for ham customers, so analog thinking would not suggest
> that. The trouble would have to be IN an analog radio. But since the
> K3 is digital, we note that page 1 of the K3 programmer's guide has
> "MG * Mic gain" cell in the command table cheet sheet. That just might
> be an "Aha" moment.
> 
> If an external program intermittently sent an MG 000 command to the
> K3, you would inconveniently find the MIC gain set to zero,
> intermittently. Not a K3 intermittent physical problem, but a K3
> *commanded* to set MIC gain at zero, a command which the K3 mindlessly
> obeys, as yet unable to read a contrary indication from the mind of
> the operator. Let me know when the mind-reading K7 shows up. I want
> one. Get rid of a lot of cables and input devices.
> 
> I, myself, with my terribly soft and mumbly radio voice, with
> extensive trials managed to get a good setting for K3 SSB MIC gain,
> compression and TX EQ settings. I was directed to those settings, and
> had those settings confirmed as clear, punchy and understandable over
> the air, by the PVRC contest guru crowd. Predictably I haven't myself
> touched those settings in maybe three or four YEARS now. They are
> still where I put them. They better stay there, too. People don't hear
> me nearly as well when I'm non-K3-processed. It's like turning off the
> amplifier.
> 
> Repeating myself, if it's a third party program on someone's
> particularly configured PC, or with a particular parallel combination
> of running third party programs, then the mic gain to zero problem
> would be scattered and rare. If it's in K3 firmware, it probably would
> have been caught in alpha or beta testing. If if got to the general
> field in a production release, Big E would have been buried in
> 

Re: [Elecraft] Mic gain goes to zero using N1MM

[iain macdonnell - N6ML]

On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 6:07 AM, K8TE  wrote:
> I have experienced this same problem over numerous N1MM versions (legacy and
> Plus).  It is very intermittent and I'm unable to identify a specific
> command or cause.  It's happened to me on both my shack and portable
> computers.  This symptom does not show up with my daily logger (N3FJP ACLog)
> but it has occurred with both of my K3's.
>
> I use the "typical" K3 commands for either keying DVK memories or audio from
> my computers.  I don't use any of the mic gain command strings in N1MM+.

Is it possible that you have a macro associated with one of the memory
buttons('s programmable function), which sets the MIC gain, and one of
your lesser-used N1MM Logger messages is virtually pushing that button
(SWT/SWH)?

73,

~iain / N6ML
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic gain goes to zero using N1MM

[K8TE]

Bill,

 

Memory macros-nope.

 

All the N1MM macros are the "standard" button pushes for the DVK messages.
A raspberry Pi may be in the future for my station control now that an
inexpensive touchscreen is available.  But I will stick with N1MM+-K3
interface for now.  In my shack I use LP-Bridge to provide virtual serial
ports, including one to the K3.  However, this anomaly has appeared when
using my old Vista laptop with both N1MM Legacy and Plus.

 

A passive logger could possibly indicate the anomaly's source.  Any suggests
for a software logger?

 

Consider that some other command could also be mangled into MG 0. The
mangling can occur anywhere in the command.

 

What would be useful here is a passive logger for the RS-232 connection. It
would simply monitor the connection and log everything sent over it. It
sounds like a Raspberry Pi application to me, but I like to play software
that is near the hardware level. You could also do it with an Arduino, which
gets rid of the OS, but also makes display output harder. YMMV.

 

73 Bill AE6JV

 

Guy,

 

I don't believe I've indicated this is an analog problem.  It's most
obviously a software/firmware problem.  There is no "MG" command in the N1MM
DVK macros:

 

CATA1ASC SWT21;

CATA1ASC SWT31;

CATA1ASC SWT35;

CATA1ASC SWT39;

 

The only commonality between occurrences is N1MM (various versions) and a
pair of K3's with various firmware versions.  There are no common cables,
USB hubs, serial cards, computers, etc.  That is not to say that some errant
event occurs on rare occasions.  It is interesting to not nothing else goes
astray on the K3 when using N1MM.

 

Since the anomaly occurred with a K3, and another K3 owner had a similar
issue this year, I posted here first.  Next I'll give it a try on the N1MM+
e-mail group.  I'm watching an episode of Sherlock Holmes on PBS as I type
this message-what an appropriate coincidence, or is it?

 

73, Bill, K8TE

 

Since the mic gain, displayed in a digit format, is reported as 
literally going to the digit zero, we must remember that everything 
inside a dotted line within the K3 is entirely SDR. We must carefully 
avoid our decades-ground-in tendency to think of troubles in our 
familiar and comfortable analog fashion.

 

From: Iain MacDonnell - N6ML-2 [via Elecraft]
[mailto:ml-node+s365791n760736...@n2.nabble.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2015 6:38 PM
To: K8TE 
Subject: Re: Mic gain goes to zero using N1MM

 

On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 6:07 AM, K8TE <[hidden email]> wrote: 
> I have experienced this same problem over numerous N1MM versions (legacy
and 
> Plus).  It is very intermittent and I'm unable to identify a specific 
> command or cause.  It's happened to me on both my shack and portable 
> computers.  This symptom does not show up with my daily logger (N3FJP
ACLog) 
> but it has occurred with both of my K3's. 
> 
> I use the "typical" K3 commands for either keying DVK memories or audio
from 
> my computers.  I don't use any of the mic gain command strings in N1MM+. 

Is it possible that you have a macro associated with one of the memory 
buttons('s programmable function), which sets the MIC gain, and one of 
your lesser-used N1MM Logger messages is virtually pushing that button 
(SWT/SWH)? 

73, 

~iain / N6ML 
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Re: [Elecraft] Mic gain goes to zero using N1MM

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 11:29 AM, K8TE  wrote:
>
> In my case, the Mic gain is normally set to 8-9 (CM500 headset).  The anomaly 
> decreases the Mic Gain to zero.  I manually reset it to 8-9 which restores 
> SSB power output to normal.  I haven’t tried any other actions to restore the 
> Mic gain.  All indications I have this is a Mic Gain problem.
>

Since the mic gain, displayed in a digit format, is reported as
literally going to the digit zero, we must remember that everything
inside a dotted line within the K3 is entirely SDR. We must carefully
avoid our decades-ground-in tendency to think of troubles in our
familiar and comfortable analog fashion. I do include myself in this
habit and sometimes catch myself going retrograde, having to do a
brainwave CTL-ALT-DEL, and start over from the beginning.

This trouble is presenting inside the K3's SDR dotted line. Of the
eight "pots" on six shaft centers on the left side K3 front panel, all
those rotational functions *advise* the CPU of their state via
multiplexed one and zero state data lines. There is no gain
potentiometer inserted anywhere in the various audio paths, nor is
there a steady state control voltage from a potentiometer controlling
a linear pass transistor in the audio string anywhere, thank your
lucky stars. Remember "scratchy" audio? Just another of the analog
bugaboos happily banned forever by the K3's mostly SDR hybrid scheme.

The MIC control function uses a *shared* encoder assigned three
separate unrelated settings. If the encoder or its physical data
connection to the CPU was a problem, it would affect all three
functions MIC, SPEED and DELAY on the front panel. I have heard of the
encoder going bad and needing to be replaced. If the encoder is
miscellaneously sending a string of "decrease" encoder signals, it
should also happen in SPEED or DELAY mode. All the encoder can do is
send increase or decrease signals. You would have your CW and VOX
delays going to nothing, or your CW speed going to the 8 WPM minimum.

The CPU knows what function is currently "on the knob" and the static
values in force for the three lower left encoder functions. Exactly
one function at a time is currently assigned to the knob, and the CPU
interprets a "decrease signal" accordingly. The decrease signal
travels to the CPU over a multiplexed data line which is either there
and properly working for many diverse functions or is not for all
those functions.

Doesn't this really start to smell like a program issue? That gets you
to the next thing -- if it is a firmware bug, then the trouble is
present for ALL K3 users running the affected firmware version(s). And
we should have lots of reports because every single user of the
firmware could be experiencing the same problem intermittently.

The only program code that could isolate the trouble to a *few* users
would have to be external to the K3. Is it possible for an external
program to set the MIC gain? This of course is impossible in an analog
radio priced for ham customers, so analog thinking would not suggest
that. The trouble would have to be IN an analog radio. But since the
K3 is digital, we note that page 1 of the K3 programmer's guide has
"MG * Mic gain" cell in the command table cheet sheet. That just might
be an "Aha" moment.

If an external program intermittently sent an MG 000 command to the
K3, you would inconveniently find the MIC gain set to zero,
intermittently. Not a K3 intermittent physical problem, but a K3
*commanded* to set MIC gain at zero, a command which the K3 mindlessly
obeys, as yet unable to read a contrary indication from the mind of
the operator. Let me know when the mind-reading K7 shows up. I want
one. Get rid of a lot of cables and input devices.

I, myself, with my terribly soft and mumbly radio voice, with
extensive trials managed to get a good setting for K3 SSB MIC gain,
compression and TX EQ settings. I was directed to those settings, and
had those settings confirmed as clear, punchy and understandable over
the air, by the PVRC contest guru crowd. Predictably I haven't myself
touched those settings in maybe three or four YEARS now. They are
still where I put them. They better stay there, too. People don't hear
me nearly as well when I'm non-K3-processed. It's like turning off the
amplifier.

Repeating myself, if it's a third party program on someone's
particularly configured PC, or with a particular parallel combination
of running third party programs, then the mic gain to zero problem
would be scattered and rare. If it's in K3 firmware, it probably would
have been caught in alpha or beta testing. If if got to the general
field in a production release, Big E would have been buried in
complaints.

Myself, I would suspect something incoming on the control serial line
like "MIC 010" losing ASCII digits and arriving as "MIC 0", or mangled
to "MIC 000" or something like that. Does the K3 process a "MIC 0"
command or consider that an invalid command? I don't 

Re: [Elecraft] mIC gAIN GOES TO ZERO

[kc9ee. via Elecraft]

Jerry, did find a resolution to this? I'm 99% cw so never noticed this
before. My K3 is doing this with N1MM+. Decided to work the new Phone Fray.
That's when I found it.

73,

Gary KC9EE



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Re: [Elecraft] Mic gain goes to zero using N1MM

[Don Wilhelm]

Jerry,

Does the K3 respond normally when operated from the buttons and knobs?
If so, the problem lies with the software that you are using - in this 
case, N1MM - unless there is a bug in the K3 command structure, and 
AFAIK there have been no recent changes.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/20/2015 9:00 PM, Jerry Knowlton wrote:

Evening all,

I was setting up N1MM with the K3 for the Virginia QSO party tomorrow when I
noticed the following strange behavior.

Whenever I press any of the FKeys on N1mm (with the exception of F4 and
F12), the mic gain on the K3 gets set to 1. I cannot remember this was
always this way or something has changed in either N1MM or the newer K3
configuration files.

So a couple of questions before I jump over to N1MM with a bug report; has
anyone else experience this problem? Any suggestions to check on the K3?




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Re: [Elecraft] mIC gAIN GOES TO ZERO

[Ross Primrose]

N1MM  or N1MM+?  I'm not seeing that with my K3 with N1MM+.

73, Ross N4RP

On 3/20/2015 8:58 PM, Jerry wrote:

Evening all,

I was setting up N1MM with the K3 for the Virginia QSO party tomorrow when I
noticed the following strange behavior.

Whenever I press any of the FKeys on N1mm (with the exception of F4 and
F12), the mic gain on the K3 gets set to 1. I cannot remember this was
always this way or something has changed in either N1MM or the newer K3
configuration files.

So a couple of questions before I jump over to N1MM with a bug report; has
anyone else experience this problem? Any suggestions to check on the K3?

Best regards,

Jerry, W1IE (who is patiently awaiting the new Syth boards)






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FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the minimum 
transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.”

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Re: [Elecraft] mIC gAIN GOES TO ZERO

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

You need to visit the N1MM reflector.

Is there a command to set Mic gain to zero?

You probably have a corrupt file.

Mike W0MU

On 3/20/2015 8:11 PM, Ross Primrose wrote:

N1MM or N1MM+?  I'm not seeing that with my K3 with N1MM+.

73, Ross N4RP

On 3/20/2015 8:58 PM, Jerry wrote:

Evening all,

I was setting up N1MM with the K3 for the Virginia QSO party tomorrow 
when I

noticed the following strange behavior.

Whenever I press any of the FKeys on N1mm (with the exception of F4 and
F12), the mic gain on the K3 gets set to 1. I cannot remember this was
always this way or something has changed in either N1MM or the newer K3
configuration files.

So a couple of questions before I jump over to N1MM with a bug 
report; has

anyone else experience this problem? Any suggestions to check on the K3?

Best regards,

Jerry, W1IE (who is patiently awaiting the new Syth boards)






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