Re: [EM] Sociological issues of elections

. Or coming back to Kristofer's thermostat analogy, it's important to know what the temperature ought to be. That's one thing. Then to tell the landlord, because he alone has access to the controls. Sometimes you need to change landlords, but not often. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http

Re: [EM] Sociological issues of elections

Vidar Wahlberg said: ... I would like to see a system where electors are encouraged to gain insight and reflected views, and vote thereafter. Me too. I spend much of my time chasing such a system (as do Abd and Fred, I believe). Please share what you find. ... Giving the electors balanced

Re: [EM] Sociological issues of elections

/citation.aspx?PubId=5548type=WPN -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] Sociological issues of elections

a preferred solution of your own? -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

[EM] Top 2+1 Approval primaries

, big media, big fight). -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/w/User:Mike-ZeleaCom/in Jameson Quinn said: The simplest good solution would be *Top 2+1 approval*. That is: - a primary using approval voting - the top two advance to the general election, plus

Re: [EM] Electorama wiki requires login to view????

Jameson said: I think we could have plenty of question captchas of the form: * What letters are missing in E_ecto_ama (in order, no spaces)? * What letters are missing in Gibba_d-Satterth_aite http://wiki.electorama.com/wiki/Gibbard-Satterthwaite_theorem (in order, no spaces)?

Re: [EM] Electorama wiki requires login to view????

Before installing QuestyCaptcha, I often had to escalate. But now A.1 alone seems to be sufficient. Note that I also use this extension, which may confuse some bots: http://zelea.com/project/mailish/MailishUsername.xht -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Kristofer

Re: [EM] Open budget primary

the power to make it a fact (what is). Mike conseo said: Hi, Michael Allan wrote: This is fairly complicated. But it's interesting too, because it shows how different types of primary come together in the budget. conseo said: Yes, if [supply side] accounting happened in the same

Re: [EM] Open budget primary

down sources of information, which includes things like case primaries. conseo said: Michael Allan worte: Thanks C, Since it is also combinable with our resource accounting, people could both determine the global budget and contribute more than the vote, but their taxes rather

[EM] Closed list and open primary

of the party in consequence. The measure of that bite is the effect on candidate strength (summed at bottom). It's a smaller bite if i1 is small to begin with, but it grows with each election cycle. So what could party H do to avoid being eaten up like this? -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http

Re: [EM] [Politik] Helping the Pirate Party to vanish

fisch01 said: I appreciate your visions. I think we all share the same here. :) To my mind the idea as a whole has to be spread and understood before a toolset yet to be developed and put together can be used to avoid the usual pitfalls. ... But anyway all this should not keep us away from

Re: [EM] Open budget primary

with the primary, verifying that the wishes of the primary participants are being met, or what the discrepencies are exactly. Probably these two are related, maybe even the same tool. Mike conseo said: Michael Allan wrote: Here's a rough design for an open budget primary based on transitive

[EM] Open budget primary

. Will this work as hoped? Or is there an obvious flaw? -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] a comment

David, Which post are you commenting on? David L Wetzell said: If you're going to pit two election rules against each other by using them both and then have voters decide between the cases when they differ then you're going to have sample selection problems. For it's potentially more work,

Re: [EM] Helping the Pirate Party to vanish

Maybe this should be published. If the party system isn't about to fall apart - if the argument can be refuted or undermined - then we want to know that in advance. An academic paper plus a Web teaser would probably force the issue one way or another; either prove us wrong on paper, or give us

Re: [EM] Helping the Pirate Party to vanish

destroyed Greek civilization at its peak. I hope we don't repeat their mistakes.) Mike Alexander Praetorius said: On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 3:01 AM, Michael Allan m...@zelea.com wrote: Hi Alex, If no second party were willing to help, then we might create a new party. yes

[EM] Primary network effects and national dialogue

Hi Alex, It can never be about eliminating the network effect. The network effect in itself is one fundamental evolutionary principle. You cannot circumvent it, you can only try to work WITH it. Public telephone networks are the classic example. Bell's network dominated for roughly a

[EM] Helping the Pirate Party to vanish

, because you didn't fully understand what I propose. It's something more immediate, as I explained above. Mike Alexander Praetorius said: On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Michael Allan m...@zelea.com wrote: Alex and Marc, Alex said: It will happen fast. Enabling people to move

[EM] Helping the Pirate Party to vanish

: On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Michael Allan m...@zelea.com wrote: (cc AG Politik, Election Methods, apologies for cross-posting) Marc said: Sorry that I have put it this way. Unfortunately it is realy hard for me to express my thoughts in english language, because it's not my

Re: [EM] Helping the Pirate Party to vanish

(cc AG Politik, Election Methods, apologies for cross-posting) Marc said: Sorry that I have put it this way. Unfortunately it is realy hard for me to express my thoughts in english language, because it's not my mother language and sometimes I feel like lost in translation... I appreciate the

Re: [EM] Helping the Pirate Party to vanish

) und kein verantwortungsvoller Ingenieur wird dann mit uns zusammenarbeiten. Statt dessen wird ein solcher uns auf die Gefahren hinweisen und uns davor warnen weiter zu machen. (1) oder (2)? Was sollten wir tun? Mike Michael Allan said: (cc AG Politik, Election Methods, apologies

Re: [EM] convergence of possible discussion topics

complex relations with each other. But it might not be so much the complexity that people can't handle, as the confusion of issues that are irrationally glued together. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Bruce Schuman said: Just to add a couple of thoughts to a line

[EM] Consensus threshold

, one with reasons behind it, the validity of which can be discussed and debated before making a decision. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Forest Simmons said: Jobst has suggested that ballots be used to elicit voter's consensus thresholds for the various

Re: [EM] secret ballots and proxy voting

, 1948. Oxford University Press. p. 280. http://books.google.ca/books?id=e6m4xrnnDPgC -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Fred Gohlke said: Richard Fobes wrote: In politics the power nodes are the political parties. They are much easier to control than

Re: [EM] secret ballots and proxy voting

to control (too large-scale as Abd says). For similar reasons, election racketeers wouldn't go chasing after individual voters. I think this is what Abd means. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list

Re: [EM] List of primary voting projects

cases show an intention to inform decisions. And clearly the method tries to do so through consensus, even if it's not dynamic. Still I'm curious. Mike Richard Fobes said: On 3/25/2013 10:40 AM, Michael Allan wrote: Sorry if I'm asking a question that was already answered elsewhere. I

Re: [EM] List of primary voting projects

postings about VoteFair, because it always seemed to me a static decision tool. Mike Richard Fobes said: On 3/23/2013 4:17 AM, Michael Allan wrote: ... Please let me know if I missed any projects. ... You can add VoteFair negotiation ranking to the list. The website

[EM] List of primary voting projects

prior to a decision. The decision itself is usually expressed through a separate mechanism, as with an election, voting assembly or other authority. Please let me know if I missed any projects. Or just edit the list directly (it's in a wiki). -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http

Re: [EM] Parliamentary compromising strategy

, Michael Allan wrote: I still want to salvage Kristofer's liquid democracy approach to the problem. My last post didn't properly describe the executive primary, however, and it seems to be crucial. I'm totally pleased to see that Michael Allen has grasped the concept of using Liquid Democracy

[EM] Knight News Challenge: Collaborators for free-range voting

of this draft is at: http://metagovernment.org/wiki/User:Michael_Allan/Knight -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ attachment: vomir-45dpi.png Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

[EM] Knight News Challenge: Pioneering the practice of public autonomy

/singleNominate.png http://zelea.com/project/votorola/d/practice/3-act/election/singleElect.png http://zelea.com/project/votorola/d/practice/3-act/law/prepare.png -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ attachment: seeking-28dpi.png Election-Methods mailing list - see http

Re: [EM] An artist's view on voting methods

Kristofer Munsterhjelm said: It's interesting that you mention Adam Curtis. In the third episode of his series, The Trap, he goes into the concept of negative and positive liberty. Negative liberty is freedom from something, while positive liberty is freedom to do or be something. Modern

Re: [EM] An artist's view on voting methods

/2012 07:31 AM, Michael Allan wrote: Kristofer Munsterhjelm said: One should be careful with election by story, though. The worst kind of modern-day dictatorial regimes have often been backed by stories or myths to lend the regime legitimacy. ... Yes, I agree. The events of the 20th

Re: [EM] An artist's view on voting methods

, if not forever. Could such a cultural election happen in modern times, do you think? Or what might prevent it? Mike Kristofer Munsterhjelm said: On 12/03/2012 05:35 AM, Michael Allan wrote: Jonathan Denn said: Someone is editing Kurt Vonnegut letters for publication. This was online today

Re: [EM] An artist's view on voting methods

more pointedly be called cultural *e*lection. Could such an election happen in modern times, do you think? -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Jonathan Denn said: Someone is editing Kurt Vonnegut letters for publication. This was online today... I'm struck

Re: [EM] A Reformer's Lament

A Public Party I believe this is the meme that is circulating now in the US amongst reformers. Essentially my site, aGREATER.US is choice creation of the ax or best practice/idea on any particular topic. Some ideas are nonpartisan (almost everyone loves it) or tripartisan (a combination of

Re: [EM] A Reformer's Lament

/User:Michael_Allan/Public_parties That's atypical even for me. But among all the approaches I would recommend there is a common theme, which is to enable individuals (formally independent or not) to have a real vote, and a real say. Not only the independents are lacking there. Very best, -- Michael Allan

[EM] Deliberation and voting

/gwt/scene/vote/_/ http://whiletaker.homeip.net/mockups/ http://zelea.com/project/votorola/s/gwt/stage/_/mock/ Here's a precise problem (2) that needs solving: http://mail.zelea.com/list/votorola/2012-August/001402.html -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http

[EM] Constantly improving, serving the community

this complex of information immediately to the newcomer, because these are the goods. Little else matters. This is one of the problems I address here, specifically its visual aspects: http://mail.zelea.com/list/votorola/2012-August/001402.html Please help us hammer out a solution, -- Michael Allan

Re: [EM] minguo presidential poll with direct links

the contribution in a social context, because people vote for social reasons. * Restrict voting to real people. Bots and sock puppets ruin the social context and render the results meaningless. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Augustin said: Hello

Re: [EM] [RangeVoting] A procedure for handling large numbers of candidates using scorevoting with primaries and runoffs.

-Armytage's 2010 paper here: http://www.econ.ucsb.edu/~armytage/proxy2010.pdf Also: http://www.econ.ucsb.edu/~armytage/voting/#proxy And: http://zelea.com/project/votorola/d/theory.xht#fn-1 -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Election-Methods mailing list - see http

Re: [EM] Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process

Allow me to withdraw the question. Fred Gohlke said: Good Afternoon, Michael re: Let's sum up. You propose an electoral process to correct the evils of party politics. No. I'm proposing (or, actually, searching for) a democratic electoral process. Party politics is a side issue.

Re: [EM] Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process

* deliver on its promised benefits. I have no doubt such a way exists, but I ask you to place it on the table (1, 2, 3) so we can all examine it. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Fred Gohlke said: Good Morning, Michael re: Could you elaborate here? I want to look

[EM] Public parties: a Trojan Horse in the party system

apparatus of a police state. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Peter Zbornik said: Hi Mike, answers in the text of your email below. Best regards Peter Zborník 2012/8/6 Michael Allan m...@zelea.com I guess there are three issues in this. I'll try to unravel

[EM] Public parties: a Trojan Horse in the party system

It's strange to think I once opposed Ed on some of these points... though that was years ago. Peter Zbornik said: Talking about history, I'll share what I learned about the secret ballot too: The use of a secret ballot in America was first deemed necessary to protect the voting rights of

[EM] Public parties: a Trojan Horse in the party system

-- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Peter Zbornik said: Dear all, some comments below 2012/7/21 Michael Allan m...@zelea.com Paul said, indeed Demoex voting was restricted to members but membership was not restricted. ... This is like a political party

Re: [EM] Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process

(far from opposing you) is to help shape your concept so it can be implemented in the real world. But leave all that, and please give me your own thoughts: By what sequence of historical events (1, 2, 3) might we transit from the status quo to a better future, as you envision it? -- Michael Allan

[EM] Public parties: a Trojan Horse in the party system

an original idea of Thomas's. [3] http://metagovernment.org/pipermail/start_metagovernment.org/2012-August/004910.html -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Ed Pastore said: Responding to Michael's full response to me, below. I guess I don't get how the system then takes hold

Re: [EM] Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process

, this is a practical matter. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Fred Gohlke said: Good Afternoon, Michael Thanks for explaining. In response to your question as to whether it is reasonable to expect that, at some point, there might be five concurrent processes

Re: [EM] Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process

for an index to related discussions. What do you think? Is it a good idea? Maybe others can summarize what they themselves have learned? -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Peter Zbornik said: Dear all, 86 emails in this discussion is quite a lot to read to catch up

Re: [EM] Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process

speaking of groups with open nominations? ... One could be the process you and Juho were mooting, and another could feature open nominations, yes. ... Are the percentages the percent of the groups' membership or of the entire electorate? Of the entire electorate. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1

[EM] Implementing a democratic electoral process (once it is conceived)

to power. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Fred Gohlke said: Good Afternoon, Juho re: Ok, two phases then. One to elect the party candidates (by voters, by party members, or by nominees?) and then the final election. Although we've approached this idea

[EM] Public parties: a Trojan Horse in the party system

/start_metagovernment.org/2012-July/004886.html -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Paul Nollen said: Sorry, demoex is active in Sweden (Stockholm) ;-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page Demoex, an appellation short for democracy experiment, is a local Swedish political party

Re: [EM] Public parties: a Trojan Horse in the party system

. Do you seriously find any fault in the proposal? Any reason why it should fail to work? Paul Nollen said: Demoex (Norway in Vallentuna a suburb of Stockholm) is indeed working that way. Which way? Norwegian joke party, or public party? -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http

[EM] Public parties: a Trojan Horse in the party system

of a monopoly in online voting services. http://zelea.com/w/User:Mike-ZeleaCom/Vote_mirroring_as_a_counter-monopoly_measure [WIK] A copy of this proposal is also posted in the wiki: http://metagovernment.org/wiki/User:Michael_Allan/Public_parties -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416

Re: [EM] Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process

innovation across the board. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Fred Gohlke said: Good Afternoon, Michael re: The public may include partisans, of course, but they would vote together with everyone else when it comes to public decisions. That's the crucial

Re: [EM] Public parties: a Trojan Horse in the party system

hurdles are labour and money. Could we gain traction with the argument of inevitable success, do you think? We'd need to present it in different formats and degrees of sophistication, of course. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Paul Nollen said: Hi Alan, Per Norback

Re: [EM] Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process (Primary Thoughts)

. The last sentence says it best. There is no way to eliminate primary elections in a society where freedoms of speech and association are respected. They are too well armoured. That leaves exclusivity as the target for our sling stone. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com

Re: [EM] Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process

for municipal elections. Even at higher levels, the nomination mechanism for assembly members is obscure. Ordinary MPs have little power anyway. Power is concentrated in the leader's hands. The leadership convention is the only primary contest that gets much public attention. -- Michael Allan Toronto

Re: [EM] Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process (Primary Thoughts)

? -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process

anyone tried this approach before? -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process (Primary Thoughts)

. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

[EM] Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process (Primary Thoughts)

it first evolved. The next step in its evolution could easily see their elimination. Easy come, easy go. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process

* effect of eliminating (c)? -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ (brief comments and a question) Fred Gohlke said: re: Sponsoring is a separate topic. ... Absolutely not ... Sponsorship is the heart of party power. Their ability to choose and sponsor

Re: [EM] Conceiving a Democratic Electoral Process

), the restriction of primary voting to private members. What effect would it have on the parties? What effect on the official elections? -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] Cubicle-society. Withdrawing Intermediate FBC-2.

on issues, and how those other people will vote. I think you refer to the paragraph beginning One might counter: http://zelea.com/project/autonomy/a/fau/fau.xht#FAU-S -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list

[EM] Democracy Chronicles, introductions - Michael Allan

://zelea.com/project/autonomy/a/fau/fau.xht#H Please let me know if you need additional information. Best to all, -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Richard Fobes said: Adrian Tawfik at Democracy Chronicles requested that I supply him with an introduction to myself

Re: [EM] Democracy Chronicles, answers to interview questions

Dear Richard and Adrian, Richard Fobes said: Below are the questions that editor Adrian Tawfik is inviting us to answer. Clarifications follow the questions. Question 1. Your name and the city and country you work in. Michael Allan, Toronto Question 2. What is your Company

[EM] The Occupy Movement: A Ray of Hope -- in Politics

Occupy. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Dave Ketchum wrote: I read of too much happening, such as apparently unreasonable arrests or destruction of Occupiers' property, that Occupiers need to respond: . If Occupiers truly earned such, they need to behave more

Re: [EM] hello from DLW of A New Kind of Party:long time electoral reform enthusiast/iconoclast-wannabe...

or anything, but it may yet prove to be! I just mention this to show that we're still, for the most part, open minded on the question. :-) -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Richard Fobes wrote: Welcome! An excellent summary of the collective view of most participants

Re: [EM] (1) The fact of an objectively meaningless vote

. Exactly such an exclusion appears to have resulted in the transfer of power to the mass parties in the late 19th century, and has perhaps contributed to other mass effects in the 20th century. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Election-Methods mailing list - see http

Re: [EM] Proxy Direct Democracy

general system. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Mike Ossipoff wrote: Kathy-- You wrote: Why not make the idea better yet? Allow all voters to select a different representative for each issue of interest to the voter, so that one rep might be tasked to vote

Re: [EM] A structural fault in society owing to a design flaw in the electoral system

labour (artifact), is thereby disengaged from economic power and freedom. * The individual decider as such (elector cum voter) being alienated from the means and product of her decision (vote), is thereby disengaged from political power and freedom. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1

[EM] (1) The fact of an objectively meaningless vote

election power (non-zero) can be taken as another manifestation of the structural fault that extends through society. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Juho Laatu wrote: On 22.10.2011, at 1.42, Michael Allan wrote: Here is my latest attempt at a brief summary

Re: [EM] A design flaw in the electoral system

on the individual vote. That vote *ought* to have an effect, but it does not. The situation is rightly difficult to accept. Whatever political liberty you (or I) can salvage in the face of state power, it cannot come from that vote. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Juho

Re: [EM] A design flaw in the electoral system

a differerence. Others: did your vote ever make a difference? If you (or I) have any political freedom in the face of state power and laws, then it cannot possibly come from voting in elections. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Juho Laatu wrote: On 7.10.2011

Re: [EM] A design flaw in the electoral system

). In that rounding, the effect of the fine grain is lost (originally discussed with TE, Skype 2011.10.1-3). -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] A design flaw in the electoral system

the design flaw propagates through society at large. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ James Gilmour wrote: Michael Allan Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 9:31 AM ABSTRACT An individual vote has no effect on the formal outcome of the election

[EM] A design flaw in the electoral system

from the voters (Skype, 2011-9-30). -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] Deliberative polling

now through all good bookshops, or direct from Oxford University Press at: http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780199572106.do (UK) Or http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/Politics/PoliticalTheory/?view=usaci=9780199572106 (USA) - End forwarded message - Michael Allan wrote

[EM] Length of declaration and prospects for consensus

://mail.zelea.com/list/votorola/2011-May/001068.html We could always try again. The initial focus should be less on building up a text and more on uncovering agreement over the content. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Warren Smith wrote: this declaration is suffering from

[EM] Purpose of Declaration of Election-Method Experts and Enthusiasts

step recommended ... is a move toward greater democracy. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Richard Fobes wrote: On 9/4/2011 1:26 PM, Fred Gohlke wrote: ... I'd like to know that each step recommended on the Electoral Methods site is a move toward greater

[EM] The meaning of a vote (or lack thereof)

among the various electoral methods. See: Vote mirroring as a counter-monopoly measure. http://listserv.aoir.org/pipermail/air-l-aoir.org/2011-July/024104.html -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote: (Resubmitting to the list as Michael

Re: [EM] Deliberative polling

James Fishkin often invites discussion of his deliberative polls in the NCDD list. Here, on the California poll, for example: http://lists.thataway.org/scripts/wa-THATAWAY.exe?A1=ind1107CL=NCDD-DISCUSSION#1 -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Jameson Quinn wrote

Re: [EM] The meaning of a vote (or lack thereof)

/rousseau/jean_jacques/r864s/book1.html -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] The meaning of this discussion (or lack thereof)

irrelevant and pointless to discuss. ... I still think you are wrong, and I put a question to you fair and square: Is it your intention to imply that the individual vote is irrelevant? Is that what you think, or not? -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ matt

Re: [EM] the meaning of a vote (or lack thereof)

to meet them is flawed. Further, the flaw is deep and extensive. It may be working to systematically distort the results, even to the point of electing candidates who could not otherwise be elected. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Dave Ketchum wrote: On Aug 27, 2011

[EM] The meaning of a vote (or lack thereof)

, like those of Range or Approval, can be made meaningful by tweaking the method. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] the meaning of a vote (or lack thereof)

. But if the election method grants to the individual voter no influence over that outcome, then either: a) What the voter thinks is of no importance; or b) The election method is flawed. We cannot dismiss both of these. One of them must be true. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http

Re: [EM] the meaning of a vote (or lack thereof)

critique of Warren's proof in the other sub-thread: http://lists.electorama.com/pipermail/election-methods-electorama.com/2011-August/028266.html -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Dave Ketchum wrote: A SAD weakness about what is being said. On Aug 24, 2011, at 12:55 PM

Re: [EM] the meaning of a vote (or lack thereof)

of the election, or on anything else in the objective world. Again it follows: (a) What the individual voter thinks is of no importance; or (b) The election method is flawed. Which of these statements is true? I think it must be (b). -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com

Re: [EM] the meaning of a vote (or lack thereof)

, by weighing the consequences. I can discuss the rights and wrongs of the matter with others. But not for voting. The voting system guarantees that my vote will have no effect and I would look rather foolish to suppose otherwise. This presents a serious problem. Do you agree? -- Michael Allan

Re: [EM] Voting reform statement - new draft, please give opinions

the difference: http://zelea.com:8080/v/w/D?a=4639b=4638 -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Jameson Quinn wrote: At the suggestion of someone who wrote me privately, I have one thing to add to my message: 2011/8/17 Jameson Quinn jameson.qu...@gmail.com I

Re: [EM] Voting reform statement - new draft, please give opinions

. The fear otherwise is that adding to the text would only raise obstacles to participation and agreement; wheras omissions are more neutral in effect, or even attractive. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Jonathan Lundell wrote: On Aug 19, 2011, at 9:22 AM, Jameson

[EM] Voting reform statement - method of consensus drafting

questions. Overall, doesn't this approach make sense? -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] Voting reform statement - method of consensus drafting

. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ So, I'm really sorry, I know that there's a lot of work there, and if it worked out, the idea of putting diffs into emails is a good one... but I'm going to have to say, I still consider the Google Docs version https

[EM] School of Election Science on Wikiversity

, thank you. This is public, on the EM list, and that's fine, there is no secret here. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

[EM] Vote mirroring as a counter-monopoly measure

/apps/trac/lightspark -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] Election method simulator code - revision control

from any authority in order to collaborate on the text (source code or whatever) that is under revision control. They can join the network without anybody's say-so, because it is maintained entirely by author-peers. -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Kristofer

[EM] Election method simulator code - revision control

, for example: http://zelea.com/var/db/repo/ -- Michael Allan Toronto, +1 416-699-9528 http://zelea.com/ Duane Johnson wrote: Git and GitHub has the largest mindshare among open source developers that I am aware of (I come from the open source dev community, not academia). If you want to be discovered

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