Cortland Richmond wrote:
AIrbag testing? Well, since it costs about $US 1500 to replace them
(here),
I suppose there WOULD be a price hike!
A couple of kids were caught by the police in a parking lot.
Seems the fun thing to do to people's cars was to walk
around the parking lot with baseball
RE: EMC-related safety issuesKyle Ehler wrote:
Another point of trivia is that a fresh oil change and new air
filter
prior to having your vehicle smog tested will improve the emissions
results. At one time there was available OTC a fuel additive that
one
could deploy to further skew the
I read in !emc-pstc that Gelfand, David david.gelf...@ca.kontron.com
wrote (in DAE684A26044B6469EF0A1E1565116820F0B63@semsl131) about
'Demodulating RF', on Fri, 4 Jan 2002:
This is very interesting. I had a terrible battle with rf conducted
immunity. Could you describe your experiment?
Well, it
OK, I have to ask. Wouldn't it be acceptable to state 120V and with the +- 10%
you would have an implied range of 108-132V?
Rick Busche
rbus...@es.com
-Original Message-
From: geor...@lexmark.com [mailto:geor...@lexmark.com]
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 2:42 PM
To:
Sorry Rich,
I support John's statement about the 3 meters separation
distance. After all, you're in control in your own sleeping
room. BTW listening radio in the dark is an enlightening experience.
If it were your neighbour sleeping that close to your lamp
this would have given rise to
Cecil,
This site http://www.panelcomponents.com/guide.htm lists U.S. and
Canada as 120V and Mexico as 127V.
We normally rate our printers as 110-127V, if not going to Japan.
However, I have seen single value ratings of 115V and 120V on models
going to these countries without issues brought to
This is very interesting. I had a terrible battle with rf conducted
immunity. Could you describe your experiment?
Best regards,
David.
David Gelfand
Regulatory Approvals
Kontron Communications
Montreal Canada
-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
From: Cecil A. Gittens
Hi All,
What is the correct voltage labeling for the US, Canada and Mexico on
product dataplate?
Is it 100-120V or 100-127V?
---
This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion
I agree - ALL semiconductor demodulate.
If they did not then there would be NO distortion in amplifiers and most of
the HiFi industry would be out of business.
Demodulation is only part of the problem however.
Consider a semiconductor switching a relay.
The semiconductor may switch the
I am not sure but from what you say you seem to
have missed the point that in most directives,
certainly the EMC and LVD it is the individual
item that must meet the current standards at the
time that item is placed on the market in the EEA
or taken into service there for the first time.
It is
The original thread began as a question about the duration of a
manufacturer's obligation to guarantee EMC-related automotive equipment. I
had tossed in the suggestion that maybe the manufacturer was obligated in a
way similar to Federal fuel emission control equipment. Maybe not correct,
but an
Hi Chris, Andrew, Carmen:
With regard to safety, both effects of altitude
must be considered:
1) effect of air pressure on the electric
strength of air (clearance), and
2) effect of lower density air on the
temperature of solid insulation.
(Creepage is a
Hello,
I just got hold of a copy of ANSI C63.4-2000 annex M.
Does anyone have experience using the Table M1.1 spreadsheet?
Some of the equations look wrong to me. It is probably my ignorance, but I
could get lucky. :)
For example:
You have 2 arrays of frequencies and field strength readings in
I agree that creepage and clearance distances change.
However, I'm not sure if you can answer that it is not a power issue.
If the power supply depends on air for cooling; wouldn't the less dense
air at higher altitudes be less effective at cooling the supply?
A rough guess (admittedly
I read in !emc-pstc that Cortland Richmond cortland.richm...@alcatel.co
m wrote (in 3c35ec35.5d1a...@alcatel.com) about 'EMC-related safety
issues', on Fri, 4 Jan 2002:
I don't believe this is what people are saying here. What they are
saying is, ordinary semiconductors won't demodulate
Actually, it is both. The decreasing density of air results in a lower
voltage withstand and a lower rate of convection cooling.. IEC 60950 only
addresses the safety aspect of the change, not the operational aspects.
acar...@uk.xyratex.com (Andrew Carson)@majordomo.ieee.org on 01/04/2002
I read in !emc-pstc that Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com wrote (in
200201041623.iaa13...@epgc264.sdd.hp.com) about 'EMC-related safety
issues', on Fri, 4 Jan 2002:
So, I am acting unreasonably by using a
CFL and a radio on my bedside table.
If we're being very meticulous, it is not unreasonable to
Ghery:
Every couple of years, I rise to the level of personal expert, as I endure
the local bi-annual vehicle smog inspection. Two days ago, I had my 1974
Chevy Nova tested. (It passed, as usual, with measured emissions at 3% to
10% of allowable limits, but I had to buy a new gas tank cap.)
In Kansas there are no emissions laws or annual inspections.
The entire state gets a full air change every 10 minutes -so why bother?
We also benefit from no mandated vehicle inspections -ever. The only
thing that does get a check is the odometer and VIN, but only when a title
transfer occurs.
Greetings,
I am curious to know if anyone can tell me which standard (norm) in Brazil
is equivalent to IEC 1010-1?
Also, does anyone know if this as yet unnamed standard is covered by a
mutual recognition agreement?
I've tried the Comitê Brasileiro de Eletricidade website but as you might
At 8:34 AM -0500 1/4/2002, Keith Armstrong wrote:
Does anyone else think that ordinary semiconductors doesn't respond to RF?
I agree that commonly used semiconductors have responses well into
the 100's of MHz.
How much of a problem this is will depend on the nature and function
of the
Hi All,
I just thought I would update you all on the resolution
to my problem. It turns out that, due to the fact that
I have the antenna in the glass, there is a booster that
needed to be connected. Once connected - bingo - all
works fine.
From the Paschen curve, the electrical spacings must be increased 14% at
3000 meters over those at 2000 meters. Thermal derating is a tougher call
since some smps vendors engineer in more cooling capacity than others.
Testing for your application is the only reliable way to make a good
Carmen
If your power supply is approved to IEC60950, then normally it will be approved
upto 2000m. Above this altitude the
required creepage and clearance distances start to increase. It is an
electrical insulation issue, not a thermal
issue.
Carmen.Filimon wrote:
Hi All
There is a difference between extending a warranty and being liable for
failure. If your seat belts fail some time
after the warranty is up, the manufacturer won't pay for fixing them on your
car. But the manufacturer may well be
held liable for the failure.
Cortland
Andrews, Kurt wrote:
AIrbag testing? Well, since it costs about $US 1500 to replace them (here), I
suppose there WOULD be a price hike!
One of the tests run on a modern, computerized auto when the ignition is
turned on is for airbag activation
circuitry.
Cortland
James, Chris wrote:
I don't
Note that vehicle warranties merely assert that the named
parts or systems will be replaced by the dealer (or authorized
repair shop) at no cost if they go bad. They do NOT guarantee
that they will not fail within the stated time/mileage.
For example, suppose the brakes fail, or air bag
I read in !emc-pstc that cherryclo...@aol.com wrote (in 131.6a66623.296
70...@aol.com) about 'EMC-related safety issues', on Fri, 4 Jan 2002:
As I recall, the EU's Product Liability Directive (85/374/EEC amended by
99/34/EC) requires manufacturers to produce products that are: as safe as
people
I read in !emc-pstc that cherryclo...@aol.com wrote (in 17d.1b28bc2.296
70...@aol.com) about 'EMC-related safety issues', on Fri, 4 Jan 2002:
Does anyone else think that ordinary semiconductors doesn't respond to RF?
Your experience has been shared by thousands. The demodulation normally
occurs
Warranted parts for a car is a whole other discussion.
Warranties are simply for as long as the mfr/dealer want
to do the contract. I'm not sure if there's a law concerning
minimum time of warranty or if it's simply driven by the
free market.
Supplying a parts inventory by the car mfr is
I read in !emc-pstc that cherryclo...@aol.com wrote (in 167.698dddc.296
70...@aol.com) about 'EMC-related safety issues', on Fri, 4 Jan 2002:
As my paper at the IEEE's EMC Symposium in Montreal and my recent article
in
ITEM UPDATE 2001 show - at present EMC standards don't address
Chris,
Annual inspections of motor vehicles are done on a state by state basis,
rather than as a national requirement in the U.S. Automobiles are
registered at the state level, so the federal government doesn't get
involved. Some states have annual inspections, others don't. Likewise,
smog
Hi All
I'm trying to find out what the specified operational altitude
range(s) is (are) for power supplies (particularly switching mode ones). Do
any of you know what that spec may be, and particularly what is the rule for
derating at altitude for thermal issues. Many
No, it's simply that it isn't considered reasonable to have a radio and
a CFL in close proximity. If you want a lamp and a radio close together,
use an incandescent lamp.
That's the bottom line, isn't it?
Somebody has decided for me (in terms of
what is reasonable) that if I use a
The Curtis-Straus Update is for December, 2001 is now available at:
http://www.conformity-update.com
The headlines are:
Commission Re-evaluates HAC Requirements For Digital Wireless.
Proposed Part 15 Changes Published.
FCC Upgrades Web Site To Include New Search Capabilities.
Failing To
Hi all,
Me again...
My primary focus over the last few years has been limited to ITE and
2.4GHz SS radio products. My contact lists and web page book marks are
filled with the necessary links to information regarding these types of
products and I am very comfortable with obtaining compliance
1. Does the radio work reasonable well on FM? If so, then the antenna is
probably connected correctly.
2. Car radios used to have a variable capacitor that needs to be adjusted to
match the antenna being used. (Haven't been that business for several years,
so I don't know what they do now.)
From what I have found out it is not a requirement for safety related items
to be warranted for the life of the car. I have recently been shopping for a
new car and one of the ones I looked at is the Toyota Celica. It states the
following in the brochure: The seat belts and air bags are covered
For those of you having difficulty with the link - the link overflowed onto
the next line. You will have to paste it back together to obtain the full
and correct link.
And John is correct. Someone forget to tell the CEN website that the
documents are now free.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic
As I understand the way the civil law section of the EU's Product Liability
Directive operates (I am not a lawyer) it does in fact place the burden of
proof on the manufacturer, who is effectively considered 'guilty until proved
innocent'.
I also understand that any number of manufacturers can
Hey, Ken, let's try to be realistic here!
Sure - we should try to get laws we don't like changed, but that isn't going
to happen overnight and in the meantime we have to operate within the law as
it stands.
Or are you suggesting immediate insurrection by product manufacturers?
(Outlaw
FREE STANDARDS?
It seems from the wording that only Standards relating to e-business are to
be free, which one assumes could include a myriad of Standards but I wonder
who will decide which ones and when. Perhaps any members of Standards
Committees could throw more light on this topic. I will
Does anyone else think that ordinary semiconductors doesn't respond to RF?
I have tested a product which was little more than an LM324 quad op-amp for
RF immunity using IEC 61000-4-3. This op-amp has a slew rate of
1V/micro-second on a good day with the wind in its favour. It was housed in
an
The IEE's guide on EMC and Functional Safety is concerned with helping
engineers and managers avoid legal problems - but I don't call this
appeasement, just good practice.
But the guide is also concerned with saving lives in a world where electronic
control of safety-related functions is
Can anyone help me? I need to find the relevant EMC standards for IT
equipment when it is supposed to be deployed in the following Asian
countries: Korea (CISPR 24/22 ??), Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, China
(CNS 13438 ??), Taiwan and Japan (VCCI (V-3/97-04) ??). If you have a
link to a
You can find the Commissions explanation of the use of harmonized standards
in their Guide to the implementation of directives based on the New
Approach and the Global Approach. It is available on line for a free
download.
Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International
-Original
Agree John,
I would also expect that the RTTE follows the same procedure as EMC and LVD.
Have done some search, but I have not found any references.
Amund
-Opprinnelig melding-
Fra: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]På vegne av John Woodgate
Hello All,
Can anyone help me? I need to find the relevant EMC standards for IT
equipment when it is supposed to be deployed in the following Asian
countries: Korea (CISPR 24/22 ??), Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, China
(CNS 13438 ??), Taiwan and Japan (VCCI (V-3/97-04) ??). If you have a
link
Sorry disagree about turn and brake lights not being in the same class.
Their very failure is often the reason for very serious accidents. I have
long wished that all car manufacturers had to by law fit bulb failure
warning devices to cars (but what happens when that fails).
In the UK it is an
Might seem a silly question but does the new unit have AM? Some of the new
car CD players only have FM. If it does have AM then what do you hear when
trying to tune it? Perhaps the AM stage is faulty and the fitting shop just
tried to fob you off
Regards,
Chris
I read in !emc-pstc that richwo...@tycoint.com wrote (in 846BF526A205F8
4BA2B6045BBF7E9A6ABC4FDD@flbocexu05) about 'CEN Standards free on-
line', on Thu, 3 Jan 2002:
According to this press release, CEN standards should now be on line for
free.
George is correct so far as normal fluorescent, and of course,
incandescent, lighting. These are not regulated for emissions in
the US. But the new energy-saving RF lighting devices (bulbs) are
regulated under FCC Part 18.
The limits appear to be quite generous. The regulations are found
in
I read in !emc-pstc that Kim Boll Jensen kimb...@post7.tele.dk wrote
(in 3c34c51e.6e41b...@post7.tele.dk) about 'Lasting of the CE
marking', on Thu, 3 Jan 2002:
Hi all
I was just seeking through EMC LVD RTTE and MD directives for evidence
of my interpretation but I couldn't find it, so can some
I read in !emc-pstc that George Stults george.stu...@watchguard.com
wrote (in ea1b3684d553cbc96c23d33894bdfe4c3c350...@watchguard.com)
about '-2dB margin', on Thu, 3 Jan 2002:
After talking with some other folks, I've found that one can concoct a 2 dB
margin from CISPR 22 [the section I
I read in !emc-pstc that Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com wrote (in
200201032108.naa11...@epgc264.sdd.hp.com) about 'EMC-related safety
issues', on Thu, 3 Jan 2002:
Whine mode on: I want both on my bedside table, and
I want both to do all of their functions. This IS
not the usage contemplated by 3
I read in !emc-pstc that david_ster...@ademco.com wrote (in 2DF7C54A75B
dd311b61700508b64231002c5a...@nyhqex1.ademcohq.com) about 'EMC-related
safety issues', on Thu, 3 Jan 2002:
My copy of BS EN 50140-4:1996
50140-4? ENV50140 was an early version of EN61000-4-3 and is withdrawn.
--
Regards,
I read in !emc-pstc that Kevin Harris harr...@dscltd.com wrote (in
D886DC8708ACD3118A0500606DD5DA6328C655@DSC_MAIL) about 'EMC-related
safety issues', on Thu, 3 Jan 2002:
If the BSI site says that, then it is yet another proof of you can't always
believe what you read. :) My Aug 2001 version of
Actually, if you consider that there are two issues here. First, the TV and
Radio
manufacturers are required to no longer have a wide-open front end as was
prevalent
quite a few years ago. This single action by the FCC improved the immunity
(decreased
the susceptability) to incidental RF.
After talking with some other folks, I've found that one can concoct a 2 dB
margin from CISPR 22 [the section I mentioned below] as follows: Using the
formula for statistically assessed compliance Xavg + K*StdDev Limit,
assume that the StdDev is 1.0 and that you are initially testing one
Point taken Ken, but consider signal lights. They're
essentially safety devices and they're supposed to
be maintained on cars which have been transferred
amongst several owners and are decades old.
Same idea with windshields, I guess also.
- Doug McKean
I think you are being blown off. If the antenna worked with AM before, and it
is the SAME antenna, just a different receiver, then its the receiver, not the
car...
I would return that stereo immediately and have the guy who gave you that
answer explain the phenomenon in detail to both you and
If your colleage doesn't understand why you shouldn't
mix water and electricity in general, just tell him that
water has a tendency to be rather unpredictable and
can go anywhere. Someone likened it to a three
dimensional resistor and that's an excellent example.
Add to it a very deformable
New one on me. The same antenna works for AM and FM, it just drives a
higher load impedance on AM.
--
From: Charles Grasso chasgra...@hotmail.com
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Something a little different - Car Radio question
Date: Thu, Jan 3, 2002, 3:07 PM
Hello all,
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