and, 2011/65/EU is still in charge, and is the directive to be
listed in the DoC.
Comments?
BR Amund
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familiar with IEC EN 61000-6-2 but have never tested or looked
into IEC EN 61000-6-5.
If anyone who have knowledge about both standards and could shorty tell the
main differences between these two?
Best regards
Amund
Thanks Larry ! Great!
But can we operate at the band edge 863.00MHz, so the spectrum will occupy
862.9 - 863.1MHz ? Is it allowed spread the spectrum into two frequency
bands?
BR
Amund
Fra: Larry K. Stillings
Sendt: 2. april 2024 19:24
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: Re
but still
have some part of the spectrum coming into the 862-863MHz band?
Question 2: Transmit in the edge between to bands (862-863MHz and
863-865MHz), which means center frequency 863.00MHz, is anyway, not allowed?
Best regar
I have been told that surge test must be conducted to a DC-port.
Is that correct if the DC-port is supplied with 12VDC from a
standby-batteri, which is installed close by the product and with
maximum 1 meter cable?
BR
Amund
when used in operation with each
other.
Address the risk I guess in a user manual?
I assume the our DoC should include the adapter, because we put the
combination of two products on the market. We have to declare that CE +
CE = CE in this case.
On 2024-03-05 10:43, Amund Westin
We buy in CE-marked ACDC adapters from third-party manufacturers. We
then include adapters together with our product in a common packaging.
Do we have to provide original DoC for adapters along with our own DoC
in the package or do we not need to do any action for these adapters?
I cannot find
Thanks Charlie
Would you accept "Listen-before-talk" as "polite spectrum access"?
Best regards Amund
-Opprinnelig melding-
Fra: Charlie Blackham
Sendt: 20. februar 2024 10:38
Til: Amund Westin ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: RE: [PSES] EN 300 220 - TX duty
on the channels inside the
different Operational Frequency Band
Question:
Is it possible to increase TX transmission above the allowed duty cycle
limit, if the transmission includes LBT (Listen-Before-Talk)?
Or are other techniques required?
Best regards Amund
On behalf of a local company, Im looking for a German test lab within LVD
testing (EN 62368-1).
I have a listing of all CB scheme labs in Germany but would appreciate
suggestions of other labs.
Thanks!
Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Mvh
Amund Westin
Product (Multimedia Equipment) that contains Lithium battery
We know there are various required labels on packaging for ground/air
transportation. But the product itself, does it need a battery label / marking
on the outside enclosure?
Can’t remember seeing such a label.
BR
Amund
must pass other devices before it's on the Internet . ?
BR
Amund
Fra: Amund Westin
Sendt: 28. november 2023 13:43
Til: 'Charlie Blackham' ;
'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG'
Emne: SV: [PSES] EU Cyber Resilience Act
Great Information, Charlie.
One thing .
Let's say a temperat
to the Internet, but
to a local in-house gateway, which the gateway itself is connected to
Internet by wire or radio.
Will that "in house temp sensor" be classified as "connected to Internet",
so the Cyber Resilience Act will apply even for such sensors?
BR
Amund
F
I have heard rumors about August 01, 2025, from that date the EU Cyber
Resilience Act is mandatory and part of the CE marking (for relevant
RED/radio products)
Is it correct rumors?
BR
Amund
-
This message is from the IEEE
I can’t find any reference to A2:2021 in any EMC Harmonized standard list.
Does it mean we should not make any reference to in in the DoC?
BR
Amund
-
This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc
Thanks, Ted,
I fully support your comments.
BR
Amund
Fra: John Woodgate
Sendt: 1. november 2023 20:01
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: Re: [PSES] [EXTERNAL] [PSES] General Product Safety Directive (GPSD)
Precisely. It's utter folly not to carry out, and document, appropriate
Great Boštjan !
Fra: Boštjan Glavič
Sendt: 1. november 2023 15:10
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] EN 62368-1 : 2014
Hello Amund
2 years is normal transition period. So once standard EN IEC 62368-1:2023
+A11 +A12 will be adopted as harmonised
Thanks Boštjan
Have I understood correctly, that EN62368-1:2014 will be valid for a minimum of
2 more years, whether EN62368-1:2023 will soon be approved & harmonized or not?
BR
Amund
Fra: Boštjan Glavič
Sendt: 1. november 2023 11:42
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: Re: [
EMC apply.
Then the product could be put on the market without any safety related tests
.. Is that correct?
BR
Amund
Fra: Ted Eckert
Sendt: 31. oktober 2023 16:10
Til: Amund Westin ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: RE: [EXTERNAL] [PSES] General Product Safety Directive (GPSD
to replace 2014 and 2020 version?
In our case, we have a CB test certificate & report according to EN62368-1 :
2014 and would hope it would be valid at least a year or two more.
BR
Amund
Fra: Scott Xe
Sendt: 8. desember 2022 10:12
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: Re: [PSES
General Product Safety Directive ... Do I interpret correct that GPSD only
apply to consumer products? Not for any professional products?
And the new General Product Safety Regulation (GPSR) do the same?
BR
Amund
-
This message
Thanks James,
As I understand you, the 15W limit must not be exceeded after a single fault
(within 3 seconds). Right?
BR
Amund
Fra: James Pawson (U3C)
Sendt: 24. oktober 2023 10:41
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: Re: [PSES] Wire insulation - Flammability - IEC/EN 62368-1
Hi
As long as wire in PS1/ES 1, there are no flammability requirements for the
wire insulation?
BR Amund
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Amund
-Opprinnelig melding-
Fra: James Pawson (U3C)
Sendt: 16. oktober 2023 16:39
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: Re: [PSES] IEC/EN62368-1 includes requirements (Annex M) to IEC/EN 62133-2
Hi Amund,
Annex M (batteries) is normative = shall comply. You only get to comply
requirement, that if you are to
fulfill EN62368-1 and have LiPo cells in your product, then the cells must
comply with this standard IEC 62133-2?
How well known is IEC 62133-2?
Thanks!
BR
Amund
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This message is from the IEEE
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Radio receivers under RED? Yes
Television and radio receivers are within scope of RED (they weren’t under
R)
<mailto:am...@westin-emission.no> @Amund Westin – you should be careful
det
not. Tricky
case ….
BR
Amund
Fra: Charlie Blackham
Sendt: 5. oktober 2023 09:38
Til: rmm.priv...@gmail.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG; Amund Westin
Emne: RE: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Radio receivers under RED? Yes
Television and radio receivers are within scope of RED (they weren’t
information, do you think we are still within RED or are
we now outside RED? …..
Best regards Amund
Fra: Charlie Blackham
Sendt: 5. september 2023 09:35
Til: Amund Westin ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: RE: [PSES] Radio receivers under RED? Yes
Amund
Yes
The RED EU-Type Examination Certificates I have seen, are valid for 4 years.
Is the validity period something regulated by the EU or is it up to the
Notified Body to set the period on the RED certificate?
Best regards
Amund
nce and unwanted signals on the basis of the relevant
essential requirements of Union harmonisation legislation.
Thanks!
BR
Amund
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discussion list. To p
We have some pieces of plastic that need to be tested, if they are
UL94V-0 compliant.
Anyone who knows European labs that deliver such service?
BR
Amund
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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc
and the camera.
On 2023-08-13 16:57, Amund Westin wrote:
To avoid a lot of paper use, it is possible to leave a short instruction with
the product to enter a web site or use affixed QR code (on product) to get
access to the User manual and other relevant documentation?
Should such a symbol Link
Can’t find info about this in the Blue Guide
Fra: Amund Westin
Sendt: 13. august 2023 17:57
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: [PSES] User manual by accompanying documents or via affixed QR
To avoid a lot of paper use, it is possible to leave a short instruction with
the product
be
attached when using QR code?
Best regards
Amund
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/Unternehmen_Institutionen/Technik/InverkehrbringenvonProdukten/Schnittstellenbeschreibungen/FlugfunkFL/RegTPSSBFL012Id1461pdf.pdf;jsessionid=63D4A874EE9637C9B4A25A6C70EB23FF?__blob=publicationFile=4
Seems to a Technical File / Notified Body case ...
BR
Amund
-Opprinnelig melding-
Fra
After some searching, we see that there is a lack of radio standards that cover
an important ground-based product / system within aeronautical services.
How should we proceed with finding relevant test requirements? Are there any
generic radio requirements that can be used as a basis?
BR
Amund
) to a professional partner, who will test the product within its
own premises?
BR regards
Amund
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Thanks Doug
What kind of problems could we expect in a room with spec «"Typical > 40dB of
shielding effectiveness"?
Noise from sources outside the chamber? Not possible to make an ambient
measurement without a lot of noise coming in from the outside environment?
Best r
-test site.
#Amund
Fra: Ken Javor
Sendt: 28. mars 2023 19:42
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: Re: [PSES] Comtest Architectural Shielding
Used similar materials or build EMI "tents." They worked quite well, but we
needed just a little shielding effectivenes
Please check out the datasheet attached.
Anyone here in the forum that have experience with this type of shielding? The
goal is => a manufacturer wants to build a pre-testing site in-house (5m x 2m x
2m).
Thanks for any comments.
BR
Am
LiPo.
Have you experienced the same attitude from your labs?
BR
Amund
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All
will be in OFF mode, or more precisely, in a
sleep mode which draws some micro amps.
We assume ( or hope.) such a load is acceptable even under transport, as
long as a single fault in the battery circuit will not put the battery
itself in a hazard condition.
Best regards Amund
Fra
Thanks John,
IATA is a good advice. I’ll check that..
The batteries will always be mounted inside the final product.
Best regards
Amund
Fra: John Mcbain
Sendt: 13. februar 2023 07:30
Til: Amund Westin
Kopi: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org
Emne: Re: [PSES] Product with LiPo battery
if there are any specific requirements for testing or
certification for such battery-products, which will be transported by air,
train, ship, etc?
Thanx!
BR
Amund
-
This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering
Sorry if I have missed that information, but where can I find requirements
for the UKCA logo which shall be affixed to the product. Need the check out
the shape, minimum size, etc. Just like the CE logo has requirements.
Thanks!
BR
Amund
Fra: Lauren Crane
Sendt: 16. november
So we carry on as before … CE mark the product and issue the (CE) EU
declaration of Conformity up to Dec. 31, 2024?
The UKCA mark and UKCA declaration of Conformity will be voluntary in addition
to the CE marking?
Best regards
Amund
Fra: Tom Smith
Sendt: 15. november 2022 07
, but with UK standards included together with the EN
standards. Right?
BR
Amund
Fra: Amund Westin
Sendt: 7. november 2022 07:15
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: [PSES] UKCA marking replaces the CE on 01/01/2023
«The UK Conformity Assessed (UKCA) mark is a mandatory mark
have
left the European Union».
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-make-it-simpler-for-businesses-to-apply-new-product-safety-markings
Where can we find the UK legislation which apply from 01/01/2023?
Best regards
Amund
category? In this case,
it’s a component that dissipate heat, but I assume for sure that the energy is
way below the PIS 15W limit.
*
Best regards
Amund
-
This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
spread for internal fire.
Are the other aspects that should be kept in mind, when we are planning the
needed space (volume) for the battery inside the device. Usually, an energy
source should have some distances to the surrounds, but here the battery is
placed in a metallic cover.
BR
Amund
and Microsoft has forgotten to present the phone number on the
web for such assistance
Any help is appreciated.
Cheers!
Amund
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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
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We are considering a review of the standard IEC/EN 62368-1. A test report
template would be helpful. Anyone who sell such a template?
BR
Amund
-
This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
Thanks!
So, currently we can just use our existing CE DoC documents, but from
01.01.2023, those documents are not valid and an UKCA approval must be in place
… right?
If that’s the fact, the period to 01.01.2023 is short and I would prepare for
an UKCA approval right now.
BR
Amund
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-make-it-simpler-for-busines
ses-to-apply-new-product-safety-markings
Our plan was to go through an EU Notified Body and apply for the UKCA
approval. Does this announcement make any really differences?
BR
Amund
how old they are.
Thanks!
BR
Amund
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component at 63MHz.
At this stage, we have not investigated the trace layouts or the layers
stacking of the pcb. We have done some introduction of clean power (batteries)
and in the same time, bypassed DCDC converters to observe the difference in
noise spectrum.
On the right track?
BR
Amund
. 62368-1 product (AC powered WiFi HUB). No cabling/wiring on secondary
side.
Cheers!
BR
Amund
Fra: Joe Randolph
Sendt: 18. februar 2022 05:09
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Numbers of insulation layers in transformer
(IEC62368)
Hi Amund
give access to secondary
circuits.
Best regards
Amund
Fra: Richard Nute
Sendt: 16. februar 2022 23:09
Til: 'Amund Westin' ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: RE: [PSES] Numbers of insulation layers in transformer (IEC62368)
Hi Amund:
Since the unit does not have grounding
product
Thanks.
Best regards
Amund
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IP66 is for harsh outdoor conditions (industrial, offshore, ships, carwash,
etc.)
IPX6 : powerful water jets (water hose :100 liters / minute).
IP67 (temporary immersion in water)
Best regards Amund
Fra: sudhakar wasnik
Sendt: 14. februar 2022 22:57
Til: EMC-PSTC
Thanks guys.
I checked out the actual case yesterday and was told that the reason for
observing QP for a longer time was that the product had used a spread
spectrum technique.
Best regards Amund
Fra: Paasche, Dieter
Sendt: 6. desember 2021 16:35
Til: EMC-PSTC
regards
Amund
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Thanks Charlie,
Yes, «LoRa sensor» was an inaccurate way to describe a temperature sensor using
the LoRa communication protocol.
I’ll look more into EN 300 220-2 V3.1.1.
Thanks!
Best regards Amund
Fra: Charlie Blackham
Sendt: 3. desember 2021 11:22
Til: EMC-PSTC
Checking out the harmonized EU standards, but can’t find any specific radio
standard for LoRa devices (operates in the 868MHz band)
Anyone who has experience about appropriate standard? The first that comes in
my mind is EN 300 220 series.
Best regards Amund
Boštjan,
Good advice. Any conductive materials in non-conductive enclosures are risky
business.
BR Amund
Fra: Boštjan Glavič
Sendt: 15. september 2021 07:02
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: Re: [PSES] Creepage and clearance requirements
Hi Amund,
If plastic enclosure
I support such thoughts.
Consumer products will probably, if not working, be thrown into waste bin or
sent back to manufacturer for repair.
Onsite service can be performed by skilled persons that is trained to handle
such situations with potential hazard.
BR Amund
Fra: Scott
, then
it is of course positive.
Best regards Amund
Fra: Pete Perkins
Sendt: 14. september 2021 16:51
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: Re: [PSES] Creepage and clearance requirements
Amund,I support Rich’s approach.
It does leave a lingering question, though
requirements between primary and secondary circuits,
does it make any sense as long as the device has no cables and is encapsulated
by a plastic enclosure
I understand that there should be some Creepage and clearance to withstand OVC
II (250V transient).
Best regards Amund
, is a good tool for
finding the noise and the wires that may act as antennas?
Best regards
Amund
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Planning to coat the an aluminum part with Surtec 650
https://www.surtec.com/en/products/surtec-650/ before painting so we get
minimum resistance before bonding the gasket.
Anyone who have experience with Surtec 650?
Best regards Amund
Looking for some examples of EMC Product standards that as commonly used
under CE marking.
So far, I have only found a lot of Product Family standards .
Thanks for some examples !
Best regards Amund
-
This message is from
Anyone who knows there we can find the procedure for becoming a CB test
lab and issuing CB certificates?
And for those who have been into this process, how long time from start
to end? years?
Thanks!
Amund
-
This message
egards
Amund
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The following can issue Electrical safety certifications:
CSA
UL
FM
Any others?
It's IT-products.
BR
Amund
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discussion list. To post a message
When IEC publish a standard, do UL adopt it as is, or do they modify it? I
guess this will vary form case to case. Right?
Best regards Amund
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Derek,
240/480MHz sound like USB 2.0 High speed It's 4 USB-ports on the RPi ?
Br
Amund
-Opprinnelig melding-
Fra: DEREK WALTON
Sendt: 28. november 2020 00:49
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: [PSES] Thoughts on what may be the emission source
Hi Folks,
I’m working
Looking for plastic enclosure manufacturers for custom box design. We have
prepared a first 3D drawing, but need help to smoothen the look and make a
first small production serie.
Any recommended manufactures out there?
Thanks!
Best regards
Amund Westin
Oslo, Norway
Thanks Brian, as simple as possible.
Best regards
Amund
Fra: Brian Kunde
Sendt: 22. november 2020 06:26
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: Re: [PSES] ROHS and DoC
Because we provide DoCs translated into over 30 languages, we try to avoid text
that has to be translated. Our type
For EU compliance, I assume Directive 2011/65/EU is still the correct
reference to use?
I see several parties who is referring to 2015/863 in their DoC, but isn't
that reference just a replacement for Annex II in 2011/65/EU?
Best regards
Amund
Thanks Andreas,
We have got the same impression that a certificate IEC 60086-4, is now
required, which it wasnt under 60950
Even an UL approval UL60086-4 wasnt good enough according to our local test
& cert. body.
Best regards Amund
Fra: Graevinghoff Andreas (ETA
!
BR Amund
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? … or is it possible that test instruments
for CS116 also can carry out the tests according to IEC 61000-4-18?
Cheers!
Best regards
Amund
-
This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
400AC, Ken.
3-phase. L3, L2, L1, N, PE
Ebay may be an alternate, but brand new is also an option.
Only peak might be good enough, but QP and Avg are options aswell.
BR
Amund
Sendt fra min iPhone
> 4. sep. 2020 kl. 17:17 skrev Ken Wyatt :
>
> Is that 400V AC or DC? That will make a d
Need to establish a pre-qual test setup for Conducted emission testing in-house.
EUT will be 400V / 16A.
Any suggestion on such low cost test eqiupment? LISN and spectrum analyzer ….
Best regards Amund
-
This message is from
l also
be reflected when later on doing this with a LISN.
Anyone who have tried such troubleshooting technique?
Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Mvh
Amund Westin
**
Cell: (+47) 920 17 031
E-mail: <mailto:am...@westin-emission.no> am...@westin
about that ground connection to the main part?
Correct type of filter?
..
BR
Amund
-Opprinnelig melding-
Fra: Amund Westin
Sendt: 28. juni 2020 10:59
Til: EMC PSTC
Emne: Conducted emission - AC line filters makes it worse
A 3-phase product has three in
performance?
BR
Amund
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Sorry for bringing up this issue again, but I have lost my history for
all previous IEEE mails ...
I know (assume ...) that UL, CSA, FM and others are voluntary for
showing compliance.
But that is actually required by law in US and C?
Thanks!
Best regards
Amund
as a component (or replacement) in such electronic product,
I suppose the manufacturer of the final product should not deal with 21 CFR §
1040.10 and instead be aware and purchase laser devices which are ready tested
and approved according to this regulation. Agree?
Best regards
Amund
Anyone who have been through the process for complying to 21 CFR §
1040.10?
Time consuming process?
BR
Amund
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Note that the worst situation may occur when both planes are equal,
In this PCB, they are more or less equal. It's an 8-layer stack (bottom/
Layer8=GND, Layer7=Signals, Layer6=GND, and .). But the signal traces in
Layer7 have now continuous return path in both L8 and L6.
Regards
Amund
signal /crtl. lines
Regards Amund
Fra: James Pawson (U3C)
Sendt: 18. mars 2020 09:51
Til: 'Amund Westin' ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: RE: [PSES] Stripline - discontinuity in adjacent ground planes
Hi Amund,
Are the distances from GND1-Signal the same as Signal-GND2 i.e
for the traces in the adjacent
SIGNAL layer?
Best regards
Amund Westin
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All
When going for a RED certificate from a Notified Body, have you received a
risk assessment template to fill in or do you supply with your own self-made
risk document? (Maybe based on CENELEC guide 32 . )
Best regards
Amund
are many other
potential places for EMI leakage. We will use a sniffer to check out.
Best regards
Amund
Fra: Istvan Novak
Sendt: 21. februar 2020 14:28
Til: Amund Westin ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Emne: Re: [PSES] SV: [PSES] Ground copper fill on signal layer on multilayer PCB
Hi
Hi Ken
No, I have not considered edge-plating. I’ll look into this now.
We have some high frequency noise (400-500MHz) from differential lines leaking
out from an inner layer of a multilayer pcb. Edge-plating might be a good
solution.
Thanks for the tip.
BR
Amund
Fra: IBM Ken
at all
Best regards
Amund
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such a
switch of layers?
Best regards
Amund
On 2020-02-10 17:58, Ken Wyatt wrote:
Hi Amund/Gert,
I agree with Gert’s advice, that all (especially high speed) signal
layers need to have an adjacent ground return plane in order to
properly capture the electromagnetic wave of the digital
Ken, Really great series about PCB design for minimal EMC.
I have been through all four now, and a lot of good advices and field theory.
I have some follow-up questions soon
Best regards
Amund
Fra: Ken Wyatt
Sendt: 10. februar 2020 17:59
Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Thanks Gert
I want to read your advices with great attention.
Just one immediately follow-up ==>This Misc layer, is it an extra layer for
signal routing, as a Sbott3?
Mvh Amund
Fra: Gert Gremmen
Sendt: 10. februar 2020 09:57
Til: Amund Westin ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
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