Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands
of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
I feel sure, and I expect you do too, that the IEC simply cannot agree to your
first condition, because of the constitutional requirements of IEC and its
constituent National
I feel sure, and I expect you do too, that the IEC simply cannot agree
to your first condition, because of the constitutional requirements of
IEC and its constituent National Committees for stakeholder, and later
public, consultation through the National Committees. While unusual,
your second
emcesd.com
Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands
of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
My experience, is that all brands, commercial and custom private built, will
all make for different results.
The ESD generators can all make the required waveforms as poorly
Hi Monrad and the group,
First, Monrad please unblock my email at you company. Tried to send this but
bounced.
Barth Electronics and I took tons of data this week on many ESD simulators and
more are coming. Barth's measurement setup is likely the best one on the
planet. Jon Barth understands
;
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 22:09
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands
of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
One example that comes to mind, out of a long history of wonderment in ESD
testing, is for an air discharge, p
S] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands
of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
One example that comes to mind, out of a long history of wonderment in ESD
testing, is for an air discharge, pulling the trigger causes the product to
glitch, before approaching the product target point.
Found
One example that comes to mind, out of a long history of wonderment in ESD
testing, is for an air discharge, pulling the trigger causes the product to
glitch, before approaching the product target point.
Found a way around the anomaly, to find not problem with the actual air
discharge.
But
: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 2:50:46 PM
To: doug emcesd.com ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands
of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
The discussion is becoming more general, but perhaps it needs to be. The way
IEC works
-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when
Changing Brands of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
If the standard, or indeed the underlying technology, really needs to
be improved, someone has to spend a dollar or two. I spend the GBP
equivalent of about
mcesd.com>;
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: RE: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands
of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
Doug,
Are these papers online somewhere? I looked at the ESDA s
Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2019-10-15 21:13, doug emcesd.com wrote:
Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands
of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
They were in the EOS/ESD Symposium records for years in the late
emcesd.com ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands
of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
Doug,
Are these papers online somewhere? I looked at the ESDA site but I could not
find an archive of papers. Maybe I am looking in the wrong place
Well, some of the set-ups I've seen appear to accept violent mismatches,
so concern about the cables may not be misplaced. But I still think that
an in-depth study of the discharge path, from source back to source, is
needed.
What is a 'reasonable waveform definition'? Do you mean a precise
com>>;EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG><mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>>
*Subject:*Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when
Changing Brands of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
I take your point, but I wasn't proposing a full rep
john.uk>>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 9:27:08 AM
> To: doug emcesd.com <http://emcesd.com/> <mailto:d...@emcesd.com>>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>>
> Subject: Re: [PSES
/>
mailto:d...@emcesd.com>>;
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>>
Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands
of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
I take your point, but I wasn't propo
Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing
Brands of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
This was pretty much done in the 90s with many round robin tests. The
culprit is the lack of di/dt control and lack of control on EM radiation
from the simulator. The two factors
: John Woodgate
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 9:27:08 AM
To: doug emcesd.com ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands
of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
I take your point, but I wasn't proposing a full replication of the earlier
, October 15, 2019 5:44:45 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands
of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
At a previous employer ran into the issue as Doug describes, using different
ESD Guns at different labs. Cal reports showed
*From:* John Woodgate
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 15, 2019 00:52
*To:* doug emcesd.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when
Changing Brands of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
No doubt it was very good work
: John Woodgate
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2019 00:52
To: doug emcesd.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands
of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
No doubt it was very good work, but its OLD. One or two new papers would be a
good
, October 15, 2019 5:44:45 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands
of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
At a previous employer ran into the issue as Doug describes, using different
ESD Guns at different labs. Cal reports showed
At a previous employer ran into the issue as Doug describes, using
different ESD Guns at different labs. Cal reports showed the ESD Guns with
the worst correlation issues were at opposite ends of the permissible
di/dt. Other than correlation issues and potential embarrassment of not
having
@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands
of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
No insight into what Doug mentioned, but before tightening up on equipment
performance requirements, with attendant cost impact to test facilities, I
would want to know
Doug referred.
Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261
From: "doug emcesd.com"
Reply-To: "doug emcesd.com"
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 19:41:42 +
To:
Conversation: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing
Brands of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2)
Subject: Re:
All manufactured products have tolerances in their specifications even if
the spec sheet doesn't state a tolerance for certain parameters (unless
stated as min or max). Even if all the different manufacturers follow the
same basic design requirements defined in the test standard, the resultant
My experience, is that all brands, commercial and custom private built, will
all make for different results.
The ESD generators can all make the required waveforms as poorly defined and
tested.
Yet each different brand or model will give different results.
Why ? Incomplete performance
Hi Montara,
There are more stories than I can type here. The standard as written is not
very good. We addressed this in the early to mid-1990s and determined what was
necessary. We also did a lot of round robin testing. Probably most of what you
want has been published in the 1990s. Look at
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