I was looking at some data from an email service and after following the
thread found this interesting article on automotive EMC. There is also a
link to the FORD EMI test specification. As I recall this was a topic of
discussion a few weeks back. .It is interesting to compare these
In a recent response of TV Nostalgia Dale Svetanoff suggested a link to
the Antique Wireless Association
http://www.antiquewireless.org/
Looking through this link I was fascinated by some of the early issues
regarding electronic devices power with tubes. Additionally there was an
article that
Another thing you younger guys (and ladies) may not know is that Mad Man
Muntz was essentially responsible for the 4 track (anyone remember those)
and ultimately the 8 track stereos in cars. He was quite a marketer.
Rick
-Original Message-
From: Price, Ed [mailto:ed.pr...@cubic.com]
How about the reported X-Ray emissions from the old high voltage regulators
and the 25-35KV anode voltages? Those old color sets were beasts.
It is interesting to note that the process of keeping the CRT filaments
warm, (instant on) was the cause of numerous TV fires.
But you know, there's
My company designs and manufactures visual systems for use in simulation and
training. Aside from the computers, projectors and other electronic devices
used with these systems (which are CE marked), we also deliver these visual
systems with some type of visual environment such as a dome. This
Another option might be to use a variac (adjustable auto transformer) to
adjust the input.
-Original Message-
From: Kenneth McCormick [mailto:kmccormick...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 4:26 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: looking for used power supply
It
A few months back there was a discussion on this list regarding the
potential for LEDs to laze if overdriven. As I recall the issue pointed to
the IEC 825-1: LED Optical Safety standard and the concern for possible
testing all LEDs. The consensus was that in general LEDs did not pose much
of a
I am in the process of assisting our publications group with documenting an
ac power configuration. As simple as this sounds, it turns out there are
varying opinions in our engineering group regarding the naming convention
for input power, in particular single phase verses two phase.
We all
A friend has asked me about the relevant European standard(s) used for data
communication through existing, in-house, power wiring. I am inclined to
recommend the ETSI (European Telecommunications Standards Institute). Is
this the correct and most applicable standards organization? Can someone
I may regret saying this, but isn't it conceivable that the FCC Rules that
make it illegal to use a cell phone in the air has more to do with the right
of the airline to sell expensive phone time, than the technical issues? :(
-Original Message-
From: Brent DeWitt
The difference is that everyone knows that a car can be dangerous. IF cell
phones are proven hazardous, most people would not be aware or understand
the risk. Im not saying that these aligations are valid, but it does make
sense to keep informed.
Rick Busche
-Original Message-
From:
Attached is a link to MSNBC's news site. There is an article about a new site
launched by the FCC and FDA which addresses safety and EMI concerns for cell
phones. Thought you might be interested.
http://news.com.com/2100-1033-908671.html?legacy=cnettag=pt.msnbc.feed..ne_9874454
Just for the record, I have been very pleased with the HP Kayak machine. The
cover was very easy to remove by just flipping two levers, and even after
numerous removals it remained reliable.
The gasketing was very good both around the cover and on the I/O panel. If
degradation of the gasket were
Barry brings up a good point. The products manufactured by my company, Evans
Sutherland, are typically high computer systems (flight simulators) used
in a Heavy Industrial environments. As such we routinely test to EN 55022
Class A (emissions) and EN 50082-2 (immunity). More recently we have
I had a question posed to me by a fellow engineer with regard to the design
of an electrical outlet to be used in ITE equipment. He is following the
requirements identified in CSA standard C22.2 #42-99 where each pole and
ground pin is individually subjected to a weighted pullout test. The
According to UL 1950, sub clause 4.4.3.6, foam air filters must meet the
flammability of Class V2 or better, or HF-2 or better. This rating in
accordance with UL 94. Recently one of our suppliers has suggested the use
of Class 2 filter material in accordance with UL 900 flammability.
Additionally
Another possibility is that the US equipment may have been designed for a
three phase Y input with a neutral and was used on a European three phase
delta circuit. Someone could have then tied the neutral terminal to ground
creating a serious hazard as well as a voltage imbalance.
Just a
I am looking for suggestions for European standards with regard to ladders
and maintenance platforms. I have a copy of British Standard BS 5395: Part
3: 1985. Stairs, ladders and walkways and was wondering if there might be
other applicable European standards.
Thanks in advance
Rick Busche
I am still trying to locate a European starndard that would address the
issue of performing maintenace tasks from a ladder. The following message is
being reposted:
I am looking for suggestions for European standards with regard to ladders
and maintenance platforms. I have a copy of British
Somewhat related to this discussion is the opportunity I had last week to
perform surge testing on an off-the-shelf, rack mounted PC. The power supply
in question was from a reputable manufacturer and had safety, EMC and CE
markings. The system (power supply) passed the Heavy Industrial limits
And what would the recommendations be for three phase?
-Original Message-
From: Lacey,Scott [mailto:sla...@foxboro.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2000 5:48 AM
To: 'Mavis, Robert'
Cc:
It concerns me that a device such as this would have its safety dependent on
lubrication. One would expect that it may be infrequently serviced as a
result of being in an attic. Additionally, thermal cutouts for these
applications should be not be designed to allow them to be defeated.
Posted on behalf of Mr. Wiederhold...
-Original Message-
From: eric wiederhold [mailto:ecwiederh...@hotmail.com]
mailto:[mailto:ecwiederh...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 8:22 AM
To: rbus...@es.com mailto:rbus...@es.com
Subject:Fires from Electric Fans
I am looking for the appropriate European Ergonomic standard that addresses
the issue of manual lifting in the workplace. The US equivalent standards
are the NIOSH Work Practices Guide for Manual Lifting , OSHA 1910,
MIL-STD-1472 or MIL-HDBK-795.
Its my understanding that there are standards
This interpretation is news to me. I thought that the derating was based
on requirements of the NEC and was specifically addressing the power plug
(plug cap) itself.
Rick Busche
Evans Sutherland
rbus...@es.com
-Original Message-
From:
For those interested there is an article (page 26) in the January 2000 issue
of Electronic Packaging and Production (EPP) that discusses the new lead
free requirements and alternatives for lead free solder.
-
This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list.
To cancel your
For those interested there is an article (page 26) in the January 2000 issue
of Electronic Packaging and Production (EPP) that discusses the new lead
free requirements and alternatives for lead free solder.
-
This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list.
To cancel your
I agree with Kurt's summary of the ground marking and stack-up requirements,
but there is a point of clarification I would like to have. Years past, it
was explained to me that an appliance inlet ground must be first on the
stack-up against the chassis. The point was to ensure that any
Recently one of our customers asked us if we comply with EN 60065. The title of
this document is Safety Requirments for Mains Operated Electronic Related
Apparatus for Houshold and SIMI..
I hate to ask a dumb question, but has anyone else heard of this? Does it apply
to ITE equipment
Just a quick thought regarding Mexican product safety regulations. I find it
rather interesting that there even exists a Mexican regulation with regard to
ITE equipment. Having been in Mexico recently, I noticed that there appears
to be no regulations with regard to the electrical wiring. Street
For some reason, it is still unclear in my mind the role of a competent body
in the big picture. I have thrown out several topics for discussion on this,
yet, the answer still somewhat eludes me. Please bear with me as I ask this
question one last time.
If company A in Europe buys a product from
This might be of interest.
___
To: Multiple recipients of list SAFETY
From: Safety on Wed, Jun 5, 1996 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: Static
This information seemed appropriate to the current thread.
Gas Can Filling
Chevron
It is my opinion that the industrial plug and socket refered to in IEC 950 is
more the pin and sleeve variety defined by IEC 309. I don't think the twist
lock connectors are allowable for European applications. I could be wrong
however.
Interesting info.
___
To: Multiple recipients of list SAFETY
From: Safety on Tue, May 28, 1996 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: Lazer Safety
Subject: Re: Lazer Safety
List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org
Date: Sat, 25 May 96
FYI
___
To: Multiple recipients of list SAFETY
From: Safety on Tue, May 28, 1996 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: Electrical Safety
From: ht11081 ht11...@cedarnet.org
Organization: www.cedarnet.org
List-Post:
The initial message
___
To: Multiple recipients of list SAFETY
From: Safety on Fri, May 24, 1996 12:22 AM
Subject: Crock Pots
Friends Of The Net:
A few days ago, one of our food service workers received an
electric
to repair
these devices and let it go at that. As a safety professional however I might
be inclined to perform a hypot just to make sure.
___
To: rbusche; PSTC group; john...@mint.net
From: tania.gr...@octel.com on Wed, May 22
Has anyone had expierence with these?
___
To: Multiple recipients of list SAFETY
From: Safety on Tue, May 21, 1996 8:23 PM
Subject: Infrared Viewers
Howdy Safety Netters -
Does anyone have any information, experience, or
In case you have some recommendations for John. His address is
john...@mint.net
___
To: Multiple recipients of list SAFETY
From: Safety on Wed, May 22, 1996 5:14 AM
Subject: Electrical Safety
Electrical safety is not my
Thanks to all of you for your interest and response with regard to the screen
room. Unfortunately (or fortunately) it has been sold.
Thanks
fyi
___
To: Multiple recipients of list SAFETY
From: Safety on Wed, May 8, 1996 9:32 AM
Subject: NOTICE: ASSE PDC INFO
-- [ From: Bob Andres * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
The Engineering Division of the American Society of
We manufacturer a product which projects a target on the inside of a visual
dome. One of the technicians who aligns and tests the device has asked if
this CRT (small 2 diameter) is capable of causing visual injury, either
under maximum brightness or under a fault condition. From my experience a
Please direct responsed directly to Bob. Thanks...
___
To: Multiple recipients of list SAFETY
From: Safety on Wed, May 1, 1996 1:32 PM
Subject: Fwd: Control Panel Safety Interlocks
-- [ From: Bob Andres * EMC.Ver #2.5.02
FYI
___
To: Multiple recipients of list SAFETY
From: Safety on Wed, May 1, 1996 9:29 AM
Subject: Expert Witness Needed -- Gas Stove Safety Expert
Hello --
Someone I work with is looking for a gas stove safety expert
You might want to contact Hanse Technology. I just attended an excellent
seminar on accelerated life testing. Unfortunately, this particuliar subject
was not discussed.
Phone: (616) 686-0330
Hope this helps
___
To:
and a response...
___
To: Multiple recipients of list SAFETY
From: Safety on Thu, Apr 25, 1996 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: Laptop Travel Protection
Thanks for the tip, since it applies to a lot of things. I do not put my
fyi
___
To: Multiple recipients of list SAFETY
From: Safety on Thu, Apr 25, 1996 11:43 AM
Subject: Laptop Travel Protection
The following is a safety alert published for BLM employees on travel
status. I'm passing it
You might find this interesting, especially those of you who may have
purchased them. FYI
___
To: Multiple recipients of list SAFETY
From: Safety on Fri, Apr 26, 1996 6:15 PM
Subject: bad switch wiring diagram
For
My company has been notified that a new virus has appeared. We have been
advised NOT to download any file named PKZIP300 regardless of the extension.
The following note was received:
Hi all,
We work closely with the military and
For your seasonal enjoyment!
___
'Twas the night before Christmas and Santa's a wreck...
How to live in a world that's politically correct?
His workers no longer would answer to Elves.
Vertically Challenged they
FYI
___
To: Multiple recipients of list SAFETY
From: Safety on Mon, Nov 27, 1995 11:22
Subject: FW: EU Standards Guide
Several questions regarding European Union standards have popped up
on SAFETY recently, so I hope the
FYI
___
To: Multiple recipients of list SAFETY
From: Safety on Sat, Nov 18, 1995 3:28
Subject: MAGNETIC HEALTH EFFECTS.
If you also find the info interesting, please share it with others.
The effect of education,
Final posting on this issue! FYI
___
To: Multiple recipients of list SAFETY
From: Safety on Sat, Nov 18, 1995 3:28
Subject: Re: SSA
On Thursday, 16 Nov 1995, Fleming, Douglas flem...@sncmp001.allied.com
asked SAFETY
We are in need of a PC to perform EMC testing in support of FCC and
CISPR limits. We are looking for the latest, state of the art, system
with at least 400 MHz processors. Can someone suggest to me (off line if
desired) a good candidate for this application? It is surprising to me
the number of
After going looking at the site Rich Nute provided, I see no reference
to South American countries. Are South America countries part of the CB
scheme as well?
-
This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list.
To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.com
with the
Reply from Mr. Stuart - FYI
I have passed your question on to the SAFETY list I manage. If there are
any responses, I will forward them to Jaber Al-haji
You can review SAFETY traffic at
http://list.uvm.edu/archives/safety.html
http://list.uvm.edu/archives/safety.html
Thanks for your interest in
Perhaps I am wrong, (and if so please correct me) but I understood that
only power cable/cordage needs to be harmonized. Hookup wire can be
essentially anything providing it meets the application.
Rick Busche
rbus...@es.com
-Original Message-
From: Bill
Conversely, I would be interested in knowing WHY they considered them
unacceptable.
Rick
-Original Message-
From: ed.pr...@cubic.com [mailto:ed.pr...@cubic.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 1998 6:07 PM
To: EMC-PSTC;
My company manufacturers image generation equipment (large mainframe
computer) which is typically placed at a significant distance from the
display device. These may be as much as 50 to 150 feet apart. In my EMC
tests, I have determined that due to common mode, harmonic noise, both
ends of this
I believe these colors to be correct. It is puzzling however that we
have one brown and two blacks representing all three phases. Some three
phase devices are phase sensitive (motors for example). Why not three
different colors, e.g. Brown, Black and ?
Rick Busche
rbus...@es.com
I think that Chris's response was logical and well thought out, and I tend
to agree with him. I am a bit frustrated however with the concept of PCs
being categorized has having no stand alone function. Obviously in the
regulatory field, we are sometimes caught in the middle between management's
Scott
I agree with you for the most part. The other devices you mentioned as being
potentially hazardous have specific, technical uses. I would bet that the
majority of pointers are in the hands of juveniles who don't read warnings
and could care less. They are for the most part toys. The same
As a follow-up (and conclusion) I am submitting a link to Ebay where these
pens are marketed. This gives you an idea of the general misuse of these
devices.
This not meant as advertisement for Ebay and I hope that the posting of this
link is not inappropriate. Just a pet peeve I guess.
On a similar note to the current thread regarding changes in
company names, I am reminded that I have a related question. My company
plans to buy
off the shelf PCs, add logic cards, fans and perhaps even
an additional power supply. What are the implications?
During a recent re-model at home I decided to replace the ceiling lamp in
the dining room. Reading the instructions for the new lamp it stated:
Warning, light fixture to be connected to wiring rated 80 degrees C. Most
home older than 1985 will have 60 degree C wiring. Consult a qualified
On a similar note, does anyone have a feel for what the approximate
attenuation differences are between a dual shield (foil and braid) and
one or the other as a stand alone shield?
-Original Message-
From: Brumbaugh, David [SMTP:david.brumba...@pss.boeing.com]
A test house explained to me that the FCC allows either CISPR or FCC
limits/procedures providing that one can determine worst case.
Consequently, you have to test both ways (120 V 60Hz or 230V 50Hz) to
determine which way you should have tested. So, where are the time/money
savings?
As a
This is not a safety or EMI question, but because this group has such
broad backgrounds and diversity I am hoping that someone can comment.
I have been asked by one of our customers to ensure that our equipment
is capable of being shipped in an un-pressurized aircraft for altitudes
of 30K to 40 K
I have in my company, several people asking for help with swimming in their
monitors. There systems are connected to a half wall (windows on top, power
and heat on the bottom). The head is steam radiation via baseboard
radiators. These monitors are NOT next to any known magnetic fields. I have
In the attached thread it indicates that the EN55024 will replace EN50082-1
for ITE applications. As I understand it, this is the Light Industrial
category. Does EN55024 (or any other ITE standard) also replace EN50082-2
Heavy Industrial?
Rick Busche
rbus...@es.com
-Original
Brian
We manufacturer system where the components are routinely rack mounted. All
of our filler plates and assemblies as defined in Us, so yes it does (or
should) work here in the U.S.
Rick Busche
Evans Sutherland
rbus...@es.com
-Original Message-
From:
The link didn't work for me but I did find it at this alternate
location.
http://www.osha-slc.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/index.html
http://www.osha-slc.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/index.html
-Original Message-
From: oover...@lexmark.com
The other reason for putting tubing on MOV's is to direct (or contain) the
resulting explosion. Tubing helps direct the discharge away from other
circuits which may compromise spacings.
-Original Message-
From: s_doug...@ecrm.com
Speaking of Microwaves, you may have read an account of a person, on
Christmas eve, keeping warm in front of a Microwave horn on the Darwin
Awards. If you would like to read this good, (albeit fictional) story go to
the following site and search on microwave. You can locate the story under
Urban
Interestingly enough, today on one of the independent radio
networks, a commentator interviewed numerous persons associated with the
investigation of radiation on the human body from Cell phones. One professor
from the University of Washington (Seattle) claims to have evidence
The following comment is being forwarded on behalf of a fellow engineer who
is not on this list
-Original Message-
I read a Science News article about using electric current pulses (conducted
or induced) in human tissues to promote healing. Frequency and pulse shape
are critical.
According to the news this morning the new virus scheduled to activate today
is identical to this message which we all received from Jeffrey Collins. I
would advise you to delete without opening.
Rick
-Original Message-
From: Collins, Jeffrey [mailto:jcoll...@ciena.com]
The following article was presented this morning on ZDNET with regard to the
safety of Cell phones. Thought some of you might be interested.
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2401220,00.html
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2401220,00.html
-
This message is
Attached is a link to Eur-Lex which has a search for community legislation
in force in Europe. Not sure if this is valuable or not, but thought some of
you might want to be aware of it. I am IN NO WAY affiliated with this
company, just merely providing an interesting link.
For those of you interested, there is a free conversion program located at
the following address:
http://www.joshmadison.com/software http://www.joshmadison.com/software
After opening this site, go to CONVERT for a description. I have found this
program to be quite useful for conversion tasks
My company uses a 2 mw laser to align a reverse screen projector system. It
is my understanding that this low power laser falls under the
classification of Category 1 and is by definition, relatively safe. I
thought I would purchase a copy of EN 60825 to ensure that we have address
proper
Rich
The obvious question I would have is... why couldn't you test at a higher
current for longer time meeting both requirements? For example 30A for two
minutes. I know the document indicates a maximum current, but does this make
sense?
OK I guess I know understand what you mean by Technical
Is it reasonable to say that internal ESD testing should be performed in
casual access areas as opposed to user maintenance areas? With PCs (for
example) being designed for user service, one would have to expect these
service persons to follow ESD maintenance procedures. Adding RAM, or
It was the latter, I was just trying to be polite and non judgmental. :-)
-Original Message-
From: Gorodetsky, Vitaly [mailto:vgorodet...@canoga.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 1999 5:08 PM
To: 'rbus...@es.com';
Attached is a link to a recent MSNBC article concerning improper testing
with regard to cancer and EMF. Thought some of you might be interested.
Rick
http://www.msnbc.com/news/293056.asp http://www.msnbc.com/news/293056.asp
-
This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion
Site link was in error and I took the liberty to correct it. If interested,
you might want to try this again.
Thanks for the posting Doug.
Rick
-Original Message-
From: d...@dsmith.org [mailto:d...@dsmith.org]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27,
In all fairness, I have this book and have also taken the class from Mr.
Mark Montrose. I found the class extremely interesting and very useful.
Rick Busche
-Original Message-
From: Qu Pingyu [mailto:pin...@ime.org.sg]
Sent: Thursday,
We have a product which uses conductive paint inside of the enclosure. From
a performance standpoint, it works quite well. The major problem being that
you need metal to metal (paint to paint) contact. We found that the abrasive
quality was pretty poor and as such we had to add material
I have a low frequency control port that has a high frequency (300 MHz)
common mode harmonic noise on all three lines. This is on an existing card
with a limited amount of real-estate available. To compound the problems I
am driving a unique, off-the-shelf, device with no provisions for proper
OK, I have to ask. Wouldn't it be acceptable to state 120V and with the +- 10%
you would have an implied range of 108-132V?
Rick Busche
rbus...@es.com
-Original Message-
From: geor...@lexmark.com [mailto:geor...@lexmark.com]
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 2:42 PM
To:
In the computer simulation business we are moving towards various PC solutions
at the request of our customers. These PCs are used in environments that have
been defined as Heavy Industrial by our customers and the test organizations
that validate the systems in the field.
This forces us to
I have been tasked with finding a standard and test procedure to validate the
reliability of flexible cables over time. I have found a standard, EIA TP-41C
(EIS-364-41C), but it focuses primarily on the electrical connectors rather
than the cable. Another standard Mil-C-13777G is used by some
For what its worth, it has been my experience over the years that management is
turned off by hearing about threats and penalties. That is not to say that
they don't care, and these should definitely be part of your presentation, but
they are looking business building issues. I try to show how
Speaking of surge and EFT I have been looking into the real life performance of
equipment installed in the field. My equipment is three phase ITE and is
typically in operation in a Heavy Industrial environment previously defined
in EN 50082-2. In particular this equipment appears to be
Please respond to
rbusche
I am wading through the creapage and clearance requirements for secondary
circuits using the values in tables 5 and 6. It becomes very apparent that the
creapage distances become quite large when you assume material group IIIb
(CTI). For operational insulation, this might be 2-3X the
It has been my experience that both the US and European Military have the
option to waive commercial EMI and safety requirements. Additionally they have
MIL-Stds, MOD (Ministry of Defense) and other military standards they may
choose to require. For our products which are COTS, (Commercial Off
For those of you who received the e-card a few days ago on this network, a
news article has been posted on MSNBC that explains the problem. If you are
interested here is the link.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/826033.asp?0na=x22149Z1-
---
This message is
It never ceases to amaze me the other duties clause that lands in the laps of
those of us in the regulatory disciplines. Anyway, such is the case with me. I
now have ESD management responsibility for our manufacturing area.
The issue I am currently struggling with is the fact that my company
I am fighting the age old problem of PCI brackets on various PC chassis not
making adequate electrical contact. Aperture leaks, especially at high
frequencies, is a continual problem, to say nothing about the flimsy
construction of the brackets. Has anyone had any success with the clips,
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