Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Dave Cole]

On Fanuc drives you need to be careful as bad or worn motor cable 
insulation can easily take out a Fanuc drive.   :-(

Dave


On 2/26/2016 5:07 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> I had to replace all of the servo power cables on a Fanuc 0i controlled 
> gantry router (only 10 years old).  The insulation had hardened from oil 
> exposure, was badly cracked, and some of the conductors were broken.  Made 
> for some rather erratic servo performance.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: r...@superiorroll.com
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 4:49:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
>
> I just replaced the power cables, not the encoder cables, and I didn't use 
> shielded cable, I used the same stuff that is pictured. I used 12/4 AWG.
>
> Rick
>
>
>  Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
> From: "Forum Deswysen" 
> Date: Fri, February 26, 2016 4:31 pm
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
>
> For Rick :
>
> A problem identified, thank you Rick.
> I will replace cables.
>
> You changed the power and encoder?
>
> Given the color and the type of cable, I do not think this is the original
> cable.
> For power, did you use shielded cable?
> What section did you use
>
> Andy:
>
> I have another problem:
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NaTRkSlRWZVc4d2M
>
> I have a difference between 0.2-0.3 mm !!!
>
> 2016-02-26 20:43 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :
>
>> You are seeing pretty much exactly the same issues that I was having
>> with both of my machines, you have the A2100 control, and that was the
>> fault that I was getting on my machine, before I replaced the cables.
>>
>> That is definitely physical damage on the X axis cable, but the damage I
>> am talking about is not visible,( someone step in if I botch this up)
>> the insulation "breaks" down electrically, and as I take it, the drive
>> senses this somehow, and shuts down. On our machine with the 850SX, we
>> always saw X axis faults, when it was the Y or the Z being the fault,
>> reason being, due to how the drive ready chain of logic in the drives
>> was wired, it always saw the X drive as being faulted first.
>>
>> Your machine is a carbon copy of my Sabre, in respect to drives and
>> controls.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>
>> On 2/26/2016 2:09 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
>>> I asked for your help because I had an axis error "CR_AXES_RDY"
>>> that caused the shutdown of the machine:
>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSFlVNFZ6OFFpOGc
>>>
>>> Before we heard creaking on the screw axis Z ???
>>> Therefore first I thought of a default of the screw.
>>> It's not that.
>>>
>>> The servo failure comes and disappears after several cycles of the
>> machine
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Today for the re-started I removed the C3 logic supply connector on the
>>> drive X:
>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NenExalJrM09ienc
>>>
>>> I do not understand where this intermittent failure?
>>>
>>> I want to know before purchasing new engines for linuxcnc
>>>
>>> 2016-02-26 19:59 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :
>>>
 What error are you getting on the control, what is the machine actually
 doing?

 I have the Sabre 750 which is a 1995 and has the A2100 control, and we
 also have a Lancer 1250 with the 850SX control, which is from 1996, the
 Sabre has the Kollmorgen drive package, and the Lancer has the Red Cap
 Fanuc drive package. On both machines I have had to replace all of the
 servo motor power cables due to the wire insulation breaking down
 internally, constant servo drive failures, ON BOTH MACHINES,  I had all
 the kollmorgen drives gone through, ( the problem started on the
 kollmorgens, then it started on the Fanucs) thinking that those were the
 problem, before I got my insulation resistance tester out and checked
 the cables, sure enough the cables were bad, and I ordered an entire
 spool of cable and replaced all of them.

 Have not had a single problem in over 2 1/2 years with either machine
 since I did that.

 Rick


 On 2/26/2016 1:46 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> I'm going to do tests with a comparator in the motor spindle.
> Perfect, I no difference.
> So all is well with the ball screw !!!
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NNGdkYmo4WHRSSXM
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NanpxT1hzaGxsYTg
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8Nb2s5RmxyN2xMUm8
>
> The tolerance in the screw maybe just engine braking since the machine
> was stopped
> and the head placed on its transport support.
>
> Where does my axis error ???
> This is an intermittent fault
> Not happy with this because I failed I could not complete an order for

Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[andy pugh]

On 26 February 2016 at 21:31, Forum Deswysen  wrote:
> I have another problem:
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NaTRkSlRWZVc4d2M
>
> I have a difference between 0.2-0.3 mm !!!

That sounds about right for 10 degrees of play in the screw.

The question now is whether the screw moves up and down (so the
problem is in the thrust bearings) or the screw moves relative to the
nut. Or whether you can see the movement somewhere else.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

--
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Todd Zuercher]

I had to replace all of the servo power cables on a Fanuc 0i controlled gantry 
router (only 10 years old).  The insulation had hardened from oil exposure, was 
badly cracked, and some of the conductors were broken.  Made for some rather 
erratic servo performance.

- Original Message -
From: r...@superiorroll.com
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2016 4:49:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

I just replaced the power cables, not the encoder cables, and I didn't use 
shielded cable, I used the same stuff that is pictured. I used 12/4 AWG. 

Rick


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
From: "Forum Deswysen" 
Date: Fri, February 26, 2016 4:31 pm
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 

For Rick :

A problem identified, thank you Rick.
I will replace cables.

You changed the power and encoder?

Given the color and the type of cable, I do not think this is the original
cable.
For power, did you use shielded cable?
What section did you use

Andy:

I have another problem:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NaTRkSlRWZVc4d2M

I have a difference between 0.2-0.3 mm !!!

2016-02-26 20:43 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :

> You are seeing pretty much exactly the same issues that I was having
> with both of my machines, you have the A2100 control, and that was the
> fault that I was getting on my machine, before I replaced the cables.
>
> That is definitely physical damage on the X axis cable, but the damage I
> am talking about is not visible,( someone step in if I botch this up)
> the insulation "breaks" down electrically, and as I take it, the drive
> senses this somehow, and shuts down. On our machine with the 850SX, we
> always saw X axis faults, when it was the Y or the Z being the fault,
> reason being, due to how the drive ready chain of logic in the drives
> was wired, it always saw the X drive as being faulted first.
>
> Your machine is a carbon copy of my Sabre, in respect to drives and
> controls.
>
> Rick
>
>
> On 2/26/2016 2:09 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> > I asked for your help because I had an axis error "CR_AXES_RDY"
> > that caused the shutdown of the machine:
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSFlVNFZ6OFFpOGc
> >
> > Before we heard creaking on the screw axis Z ???
> > Therefore first I thought of a default of the screw.
> > It's not that.
> >
> > The servo failure comes and disappears after several cycles of the
> machine
> > ...
> >
> > Today for the re-started I removed the C3 logic supply connector on the
> > drive X:
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NenExalJrM09ienc
> >
> > I do not understand where this intermittent failure?
> >
> > I want to know before purchasing new engines for linuxcnc
> >
> > 2016-02-26 19:59 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :
> >
> >> What error are you getting on the control, what is the machine actually
> >> doing?
> >>
> >> I have the Sabre 750 which is a 1995 and has the A2100 control, and we
> >> also have a Lancer 1250 with the 850SX control, which is from 1996, the
> >> Sabre has the Kollmorgen drive package, and the Lancer has the Red Cap
> >> Fanuc drive package. On both machines I have had to replace all of the
> >> servo motor power cables due to the wire insulation breaking down
> >> internally, constant servo drive failures, ON BOTH MACHINES,  I had all
> >> the kollmorgen drives gone through, ( the problem started on the
> >> kollmorgens, then it started on the Fanucs) thinking that those were the
> >> problem, before I got my insulation resistance tester out and checked
> >> the cables, sure enough the cables were bad, and I ordered an entire
> >> spool of cable and replaced all of them.
> >>
> >> Have not had a single problem in over 2 1/2 years with either machine
> >> since I did that.
> >>
> >> Rick
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2/26/2016 1:46 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> >>> I'm going to do tests with a comparator in the motor spindle.
> >>> Perfect, I no difference.
> >>> So all is well with the ball screw !!!
> >>>
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NNGdkYmo4WHRSSXM
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NanpxT1hzaGxsYTg
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8Nb2s5RmxyN2xMUm8
> >>>
> >>> The tolerance in the screw maybe just engine braking since the machine
> >>> was stopped
> >>> and the head placed on its transport support.
> >>>
> >>> Where does my axis error ???
> >>> This is an intermittent fault
> >>> Not happy with this because I failed I could not complete an order for
> a
> >>> customer!
> >>> I had to do the subcontract.
> >>>
> >>> 2016-02-26 17:45 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :
> >>>
>  With about 95% certainty, all the milacron, lathes and machining
>  centers, the ball nuts all sit in and bolt to the 

Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[rick]

I just replaced the power cables, not the encoder cables, and I didn't use 
shielded cable, I used the same stuff that is pictured. I used 12/4 AWG. 

Rick


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow
From: "Forum Deswysen" 
Date: Fri, February 26, 2016 4:31 pm
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 

For Rick :

A problem identified, thank you Rick.
I will replace cables.

You changed the power and encoder?

Given the color and the type of cable, I do not think this is the original
cable.
For power, did you use shielded cable?
What section did you use

Andy:

I have another problem:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NaTRkSlRWZVc4d2M

I have a difference between 0.2-0.3 mm !!!

2016-02-26 20:43 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :

> You are seeing pretty much exactly the same issues that I was having
> with both of my machines, you have the A2100 control, and that was the
> fault that I was getting on my machine, before I replaced the cables.
>
> That is definitely physical damage on the X axis cable, but the damage I
> am talking about is not visible,( someone step in if I botch this up)
> the insulation "breaks" down electrically, and as I take it, the drive
> senses this somehow, and shuts down. On our machine with the 850SX, we
> always saw X axis faults, when it was the Y or the Z being the fault,
> reason being, due to how the drive ready chain of logic in the drives
> was wired, it always saw the X drive as being faulted first.
>
> Your machine is a carbon copy of my Sabre, in respect to drives and
> controls.
>
> Rick
>
>
> On 2/26/2016 2:09 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> > I asked for your help because I had an axis error "CR_AXES_RDY"
> > that caused the shutdown of the machine:
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSFlVNFZ6OFFpOGc
> >
> > Before we heard creaking on the screw axis Z ???
> > Therefore first I thought of a default of the screw.
> > It's not that.
> >
> > The servo failure comes and disappears after several cycles of the
> machine
> > ...
> >
> > Today for the re-started I removed the C3 logic supply connector on the
> > drive X:
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NenExalJrM09ienc
> >
> > I do not understand where this intermittent failure?
> >
> > I want to know before purchasing new engines for linuxcnc
> >
> > 2016-02-26 19:59 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :
> >
> >> What error are you getting on the control, what is the machine actually
> >> doing?
> >>
> >> I have the Sabre 750 which is a 1995 and has the A2100 control, and we
> >> also have a Lancer 1250 with the 850SX control, which is from 1996, the
> >> Sabre has the Kollmorgen drive package, and the Lancer has the Red Cap
> >> Fanuc drive package. On both machines I have had to replace all of the
> >> servo motor power cables due to the wire insulation breaking down
> >> internally, constant servo drive failures, ON BOTH MACHINES,  I had all
> >> the kollmorgen drives gone through, ( the problem started on the
> >> kollmorgens, then it started on the Fanucs) thinking that those were the
> >> problem, before I got my insulation resistance tester out and checked
> >> the cables, sure enough the cables were bad, and I ordered an entire
> >> spool of cable and replaced all of them.
> >>
> >> Have not had a single problem in over 2 1/2 years with either machine
> >> since I did that.
> >>
> >> Rick
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2/26/2016 1:46 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> >>> I'm going to do tests with a comparator in the motor spindle.
> >>> Perfect, I no difference.
> >>> So all is well with the ball screw !!!
> >>>
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NNGdkYmo4WHRSSXM
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NanpxT1hzaGxsYTg
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8Nb2s5RmxyN2xMUm8
> >>>
> >>> The tolerance in the screw maybe just engine braking since the machine
> >>> was stopped
> >>> and the head placed on its transport support.
> >>>
> >>> Where does my axis error ???
> >>> This is an intermittent fault
> >>> Not happy with this because I failed I could not complete an order for
> a
> >>> customer!
> >>> I had to do the subcontract.
> >>>
> >>> 2016-02-26 17:45 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :
> >>>
>  With about 95% certainty, all the milacron, lathes and machining
>  centers, the ball nuts all sit in and bolt to the mounting block ( we
>  have at least a dozen Cincinnati Milacron machines, mix of lathes and
>  mills, from 1978 to 1996, and they all have the same configuration,
> and
>  I have worked on all of them). Usually 4-6 bolts on both the block and
>  the nut cartridge.
> 
>  Rick
> 
>  On 2/26/2016 11:39 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> > On 02/26/2016 08:00 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> >> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU
> >>
> >>
> 

Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Forum Deswysen]

For Rick :

A problem identified, thank you Rick.
I will replace cables.

You changed the power and encoder?

Given the color and the type of cable, I do not think this is the original
cable.
For power, did you use shielded cable?
What section did you use

Andy:

I have another problem:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NaTRkSlRWZVc4d2M

I have a difference between 0.2-0.3 mm !!!

2016-02-26 20:43 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :

> You are seeing pretty much exactly the same issues that I was having
> with both of my machines, you have the A2100 control, and that was the
> fault that I was getting on my machine, before I replaced the cables.
>
> That is definitely physical damage on the X axis cable, but the damage I
> am talking about is not visible,( someone step in if I botch this up)
> the insulation "breaks" down electrically, and as I take it, the drive
> senses this somehow, and shuts down. On our machine with the 850SX, we
> always saw X axis faults, when it was the Y or the Z being the fault,
> reason being, due to how the drive ready chain of logic in the drives
> was wired, it always saw the X drive as being faulted first.
>
> Your machine is a carbon copy of my Sabre, in respect to drives and
> controls.
>
> Rick
>
>
> On 2/26/2016 2:09 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> > I asked for your help because I had an axis error "CR_AXES_RDY"
> > that caused the shutdown of the machine:
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSFlVNFZ6OFFpOGc
> >
> > Before we heard creaking on the screw axis Z ???
> > Therefore first I thought of a default of the screw.
> > It's not that.
> >
> > The servo failure comes and disappears after several cycles of the
> machine
> > ...
> >
> > Today for the re-started I removed the C3 logic supply connector on the
> > drive X:
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NenExalJrM09ienc
> >
> > I do not understand where this intermittent failure?
> >
> > I want to know before purchasing new engines for linuxcnc
> >
> > 2016-02-26 19:59 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :
> >
> >> What error are you getting on the control, what is the machine actually
> >> doing?
> >>
> >> I have the Sabre 750 which is a 1995 and has the A2100 control, and we
> >> also have a Lancer 1250 with the 850SX control, which is from 1996, the
> >> Sabre has the Kollmorgen drive package, and the Lancer has the Red Cap
> >> Fanuc drive package. On both machines I have had to replace all of the
> >> servo motor power cables due to the wire insulation breaking down
> >> internally, constant servo drive failures, ON BOTH MACHINES,  I had all
> >> the kollmorgen drives gone through, ( the problem started on the
> >> kollmorgens, then it started on the Fanucs) thinking that those were the
> >> problem, before I got my insulation resistance tester out and checked
> >> the cables, sure enough the cables were bad, and I ordered an entire
> >> spool of cable and replaced all of them.
> >>
> >> Have not had a single problem in over 2 1/2 years with either machine
> >> since I did that.
> >>
> >> Rick
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2/26/2016 1:46 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> >>> I'm going to do tests with a comparator in the motor spindle.
> >>> Perfect, I no difference.
> >>> So all is well with the ball screw !!!
> >>>
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NNGdkYmo4WHRSSXM
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NanpxT1hzaGxsYTg
> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8Nb2s5RmxyN2xMUm8
> >>>
> >>> The tolerance in the screw maybe just engine braking since the machine
> >>> was stopped
> >>> and the head placed on its transport support.
> >>>
> >>> Where does my axis error ???
> >>> This is an intermittent fault
> >>> Not happy with this because I failed I could not complete an order for
> a
> >>> customer!
> >>> I had to do the subcontract.
> >>>
> >>> 2016-02-26 17:45 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :
> >>>
>  With about 95% certainty, all the milacron, lathes and machining
>  centers, the ball nuts all sit in and bolt to the mounting block ( we
>  have at least a dozen Cincinnati Milacron machines, mix of lathes and
>  mills, from 1978 to 1996, and they all have the same configuration,
> and
>  I have worked on all of them). Usually 4-6 bolts on both the block and
>  the nut cartridge.
> 
>  Rick
> 
>  On 2/26/2016 11:39 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> > On 02/26/2016 08:00 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> >> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU
> >>
> >>
> > This 3rd picture seems to show you indicating you can rock
> > the screw forward/backward by 10 degrees.  This would seem
> > to indicate wear and looseness in the ballnut, or possibly
> > in the mounting of the nut.  it appears the block the nut
> > sits in is NOT the actual ballnut, but a mount for it.  So,
> > you might see if the ballnut is no longer firmly mounted
> > inside that 

Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Rick Lair]

You are seeing pretty much exactly the same issues that I was having 
with both of my machines, you have the A2100 control, and that was the 
fault that I was getting on my machine, before I replaced the cables.

That is definitely physical damage on the X axis cable, but the damage I 
am talking about is not visible,( someone step in if I botch this up) 
the insulation "breaks" down electrically, and as I take it, the drive 
senses this somehow, and shuts down. On our machine with the 850SX, we 
always saw X axis faults, when it was the Y or the Z being the fault, 
reason being, due to how the drive ready chain of logic in the drives 
was wired, it always saw the X drive as being faulted first.

Your machine is a carbon copy of my Sabre, in respect to drives and 
controls.

Rick


On 2/26/2016 2:09 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> I asked for your help because I had an axis error "CR_AXES_RDY"
> that caused the shutdown of the machine:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSFlVNFZ6OFFpOGc
>
> Before we heard creaking on the screw axis Z ???
> Therefore first I thought of a default of the screw.
> It's not that.
>
> The servo failure comes and disappears after several cycles of the machine
> ...
>
> Today for the re-started I removed the C3 logic supply connector on the
> drive X:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NenExalJrM09ienc
>
> I do not understand where this intermittent failure?
>
> I want to know before purchasing new engines for linuxcnc
>
> 2016-02-26 19:59 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :
>
>> What error are you getting on the control, what is the machine actually
>> doing?
>>
>> I have the Sabre 750 which is a 1995 and has the A2100 control, and we
>> also have a Lancer 1250 with the 850SX control, which is from 1996, the
>> Sabre has the Kollmorgen drive package, and the Lancer has the Red Cap
>> Fanuc drive package. On both machines I have had to replace all of the
>> servo motor power cables due to the wire insulation breaking down
>> internally, constant servo drive failures, ON BOTH MACHINES,  I had all
>> the kollmorgen drives gone through, ( the problem started on the
>> kollmorgens, then it started on the Fanucs) thinking that those were the
>> problem, before I got my insulation resistance tester out and checked
>> the cables, sure enough the cables were bad, and I ordered an entire
>> spool of cable and replaced all of them.
>>
>> Have not had a single problem in over 2 1/2 years with either machine
>> since I did that.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>
>> On 2/26/2016 1:46 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
>>> I'm going to do tests with a comparator in the motor spindle.
>>> Perfect, I no difference.
>>> So all is well with the ball screw !!!
>>>
>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NNGdkYmo4WHRSSXM
>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NanpxT1hzaGxsYTg
>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8Nb2s5RmxyN2xMUm8
>>>
>>> The tolerance in the screw maybe just engine braking since the machine
>>> was stopped
>>> and the head placed on its transport support.
>>>
>>> Where does my axis error ???
>>> This is an intermittent fault
>>> Not happy with this because I failed I could not complete an order for a
>>> customer!
>>> I had to do the subcontract.
>>>
>>> 2016-02-26 17:45 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :
>>>
 With about 95% certainty, all the milacron, lathes and machining
 centers, the ball nuts all sit in and bolt to the mounting block ( we
 have at least a dozen Cincinnati Milacron machines, mix of lathes and
 mills, from 1978 to 1996, and they all have the same configuration, and
 I have worked on all of them). Usually 4-6 bolts on both the block and
 the nut cartridge.

 Rick

 On 2/26/2016 11:39 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 02/26/2016 08:00 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU
>>
>>
> This 3rd picture seems to show you indicating you can rock
> the screw forward/backward by 10 degrees.  This would seem
> to indicate wear and looseness in the ballnut, or possibly
> in the mounting of the nut.  it appears the block the nut
> sits in is NOT the actual ballnut, but a mount for it.  So,
> you might see if the ballnut is no longer firmly mounted
> inside that mount.  Some nuts are threaded on the outside,
> and screw into a threaded hole in the mounting block. Then,
> there needs to be something that locks the nut into the mount.
>
> Others are bolted to the mount.  These bolts could have
> loosened, possibly by stretching.  if loose, you might
> replace the bolts.
>
> Jon
>
>
>> --
> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Forum Deswysen]

For Rick :

Your reply came at once:

I just found a fault in the power cable of the Y axis
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NLXFFTXBMbmVuWVk

For Andy :

I will try now

2016-02-26 20:04 GMT+01:00 andy pugh :

> On 26 February 2016 at 18:46, Forum Deswysen 
> wrote:
> > I'm going to do tests with a comparator in the motor spindle.
> > Perfect, I no difference.
> > So all is well with the ball screw !!!
>
> I don't think you can necessarily say that with that test.
> You would need to try to lift the head with a lever and with the
> comparator in position.
>
> --
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
>
> --
> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Forum Deswysen]

I asked for your help because I had an axis error "CR_AXES_RDY"
that caused the shutdown of the machine:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSFlVNFZ6OFFpOGc

Before we heard creaking on the screw axis Z ???
Therefore first I thought of a default of the screw.
It's not that.

The servo failure comes and disappears after several cycles of the machine
...

Today for the re-started I removed the C3 logic supply connector on the
drive X:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NenExalJrM09ienc

I do not understand where this intermittent failure?

I want to know before purchasing new engines for linuxcnc

2016-02-26 19:59 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :

> What error are you getting on the control, what is the machine actually
> doing?
>
> I have the Sabre 750 which is a 1995 and has the A2100 control, and we
> also have a Lancer 1250 with the 850SX control, which is from 1996, the
> Sabre has the Kollmorgen drive package, and the Lancer has the Red Cap
> Fanuc drive package. On both machines I have had to replace all of the
> servo motor power cables due to the wire insulation breaking down
> internally, constant servo drive failures, ON BOTH MACHINES,  I had all
> the kollmorgen drives gone through, ( the problem started on the
> kollmorgens, then it started on the Fanucs) thinking that those were the
> problem, before I got my insulation resistance tester out and checked
> the cables, sure enough the cables were bad, and I ordered an entire
> spool of cable and replaced all of them.
>
> Have not had a single problem in over 2 1/2 years with either machine
> since I did that.
>
> Rick
>
>
> On 2/26/2016 1:46 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> > I'm going to do tests with a comparator in the motor spindle.
> > Perfect, I no difference.
> > So all is well with the ball screw !!!
> >
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NNGdkYmo4WHRSSXM
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NanpxT1hzaGxsYTg
> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8Nb2s5RmxyN2xMUm8
> >
> > The tolerance in the screw maybe just engine braking since the machine
> > was stopped
> > and the head placed on its transport support.
> >
> > Where does my axis error ???
> > This is an intermittent fault
> > Not happy with this because I failed I could not complete an order for a
> > customer!
> > I had to do the subcontract.
> >
> > 2016-02-26 17:45 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :
> >
> >> With about 95% certainty, all the milacron, lathes and machining
> >> centers, the ball nuts all sit in and bolt to the mounting block ( we
> >> have at least a dozen Cincinnati Milacron machines, mix of lathes and
> >> mills, from 1978 to 1996, and they all have the same configuration, and
> >> I have worked on all of them). Usually 4-6 bolts on both the block and
> >> the nut cartridge.
> >>
> >> Rick
> >>
> >> On 2/26/2016 11:39 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> >>> On 02/26/2016 08:00 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
>  https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU
> 
> 
> >>> This 3rd picture seems to show you indicating you can rock
> >>> the screw forward/backward by 10 degrees.  This would seem
> >>> to indicate wear and looseness in the ballnut, or possibly
> >>> in the mounting of the nut.  it appears the block the nut
> >>> sits in is NOT the actual ballnut, but a mount for it.  So,
> >>> you might see if the ballnut is no longer firmly mounted
> >>> inside that mount.  Some nuts are threaded on the outside,
> >>> and screw into a threaded hole in the mounting block. Then,
> >>> there needs to be something that locks the nut into the mount.
> >>>
> >>> Others are bolted to the mount.  These bolts could have
> >>> loosened, possibly by stretching.  if loose, you might
> >>> replace the bolts.
> >>>
> >>> Jon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> --
> >>> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
> >>> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
> >>> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
> >>> Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
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> >>> ___
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> >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >> --
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >>
> >> Rick Lair
> >> Superior Roll & Turning LLC
> >> 399 East Center Street
> >> Petersburg MI, 49270
> >> PH: 734-279-1831
> >> FAX: 734-279-1166
> >> www.superiorroll.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> --
> >> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
> >> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
> >> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
> >> Troubleshoot faster and 

Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[andy pugh]

On 26 February 2016 at 18:46, Forum Deswysen  wrote:
> I'm going to do tests with a comparator in the motor spindle.
> Perfect, I no difference.
> So all is well with the ball screw !!!

I don't think you can necessarily say that with that test.
You would need to try to lift the head with a lever and with the
comparator in position.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

--
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Rick Lair]

What error are you getting on the control, what is the machine actually 
doing?

I have the Sabre 750 which is a 1995 and has the A2100 control, and we 
also have a Lancer 1250 with the 850SX control, which is from 1996, the 
Sabre has the Kollmorgen drive package, and the Lancer has the Red Cap 
Fanuc drive package. On both machines I have had to replace all of the 
servo motor power cables due to the wire insulation breaking down 
internally, constant servo drive failures, ON BOTH MACHINES,  I had all 
the kollmorgen drives gone through, ( the problem started on the 
kollmorgens, then it started on the Fanucs) thinking that those were the 
problem, before I got my insulation resistance tester out and checked 
the cables, sure enough the cables were bad, and I ordered an entire 
spool of cable and replaced all of them.

Have not had a single problem in over 2 1/2 years with either machine 
since I did that.

Rick


On 2/26/2016 1:46 PM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> I'm going to do tests with a comparator in the motor spindle.
> Perfect, I no difference.
> So all is well with the ball screw !!!
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NNGdkYmo4WHRSSXM
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NanpxT1hzaGxsYTg
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8Nb2s5RmxyN2xMUm8
>
> The tolerance in the screw maybe just engine braking since the machine
> was stopped
> and the head placed on its transport support.
>
> Where does my axis error ???
> This is an intermittent fault
> Not happy with this because I failed I could not complete an order for a
> customer!
> I had to do the subcontract.
>
> 2016-02-26 17:45 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :
>
>> With about 95% certainty, all the milacron, lathes and machining
>> centers, the ball nuts all sit in and bolt to the mounting block ( we
>> have at least a dozen Cincinnati Milacron machines, mix of lathes and
>> mills, from 1978 to 1996, and they all have the same configuration, and
>> I have worked on all of them). Usually 4-6 bolts on both the block and
>> the nut cartridge.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> On 2/26/2016 11:39 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
>>> On 02/26/2016 08:00 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
 https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU


>>> This 3rd picture seems to show you indicating you can rock
>>> the screw forward/backward by 10 degrees.  This would seem
>>> to indicate wear and looseness in the ballnut, or possibly
>>> in the mounting of the nut.  it appears the block the nut
>>> sits in is NOT the actual ballnut, but a mount for it.  So,
>>> you might see if the ballnut is no longer firmly mounted
>>> inside that mount.  Some nuts are threaded on the outside,
>>> and screw into a threaded hole in the mounting block. Then,
>>> there needs to be something that locks the nut into the mount.
>>>
>>> Others are bolted to the mount.  These bolts could have
>>> loosened, possibly by stretching.  if loose, you might
>>> replace the bolts.
>>>
>>> Jon
>>>
>>>
>> --
>>> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
>>> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
>>> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
>>> Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
>>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140
>>> ___
>>> Emc-users mailing list
>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> --
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> Rick Lair
>> Superior Roll & Turning LLC
>> 399 East Center Street
>> Petersburg MI, 49270
>> PH: 734-279-1831
>> FAX: 734-279-1166
>> www.superiorroll.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
>> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
>> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
>> Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
> --
> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
> Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

-- 

Thanks

Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Forum Deswysen]

I'm going to do tests with a comparator in the motor spindle.
Perfect, I no difference.
So all is well with the ball screw !!!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NNGdkYmo4WHRSSXM
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NanpxT1hzaGxsYTg
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8Nb2s5RmxyN2xMUm8

The tolerance in the screw maybe just engine braking since the machine
was stopped
and the head placed on its transport support.

Where does my axis error ???
This is an intermittent fault
Not happy with this because I failed I could not complete an order for a
customer!
I had to do the subcontract.

2016-02-26 17:45 GMT+01:00 Rick Lair :

> With about 95% certainty, all the milacron, lathes and machining
> centers, the ball nuts all sit in and bolt to the mounting block ( we
> have at least a dozen Cincinnati Milacron machines, mix of lathes and
> mills, from 1978 to 1996, and they all have the same configuration, and
> I have worked on all of them). Usually 4-6 bolts on both the block and
> the nut cartridge.
>
> Rick
>
> On 2/26/2016 11:39 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> > On 02/26/2016 08:00 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> >> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU
> >>
> >>
> > This 3rd picture seems to show you indicating you can rock
> > the screw forward/backward by 10 degrees.  This would seem
> > to indicate wear and looseness in the ballnut, or possibly
> > in the mounting of the nut.  it appears the block the nut
> > sits in is NOT the actual ballnut, but a mount for it.  So,
> > you might see if the ballnut is no longer firmly mounted
> > inside that mount.  Some nuts are threaded on the outside,
> > and screw into a threaded hole in the mounting block. Then,
> > there needs to be something that locks the nut into the mount.
> >
> > Others are bolted to the mount.  These bolts could have
> > loosened, possibly by stretching.  if loose, you might
> > replace the bolts.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
> --
> > Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
> > APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
> > Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
> > Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
> > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> --
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Rick Lair
> Superior Roll & Turning LLC
> 399 East Center Street
> Petersburg MI, 49270
> PH: 734-279-1831
> FAX: 734-279-1166
> www.superiorroll.com
>
>
>
> --
> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
> Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
--
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Rick Lair]

With about 95% certainty, all the milacron, lathes and machining 
centers, the ball nuts all sit in and bolt to the mounting block ( we 
have at least a dozen Cincinnati Milacron machines, mix of lathes and 
mills, from 1978 to 1996, and they all have the same configuration, and 
I have worked on all of them). Usually 4-6 bolts on both the block and 
the nut cartridge.

Rick

On 2/26/2016 11:39 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 02/26/2016 08:00 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU
>>
>>
> This 3rd picture seems to show you indicating you can rock
> the screw forward/backward by 10 degrees.  This would seem
> to indicate wear and looseness in the ballnut, or possibly
> in the mounting of the nut.  it appears the block the nut
> sits in is NOT the actual ballnut, but a mount for it.  So,
> you might see if the ballnut is no longer firmly mounted
> inside that mount.  Some nuts are threaded on the outside,
> and screw into a threaded hole in the mounting block. Then,
> there needs to be something that locks the nut into the mount.
>
> Others are bolted to the mount.  These bolts could have
> loosened, possibly by stretching.  if loose, you might
> replace the bolts.
>
> Jon
>
> --
> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
> Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

-- 

Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


--
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Jon Elson]

On 02/26/2016 08:00 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU
>
>
This 3rd picture seems to show you indicating you can rock 
the screw forward/backward by 10 degrees.  This would seem 
to indicate wear and looseness in the ballnut, or possibly 
in the mounting of the nut.  it appears the block the nut 
sits in is NOT the actual ballnut, but a mount for it.  So, 
you might see if the ballnut is no longer firmly mounted 
inside that mount.  Some nuts are threaded on the outside, 
and screw into a threaded hole in the mounting block. Then, 
there needs to be something that locks the nut into the mount.

Others are bolted to the mount.  These bolts could have 
loosened, possibly by stretching.  if loose, you might 
replace the bolts.

Jon

--
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Rick Lair]

No we have never had any issues like this, that is why I would be 
looking at the mounting of the physical ball nut and mounting block, It 
doesn't appear to have any taper pins, just 4 bolts to attach the 
mounting block the the casting, and 4 bolts to mount the cartridge into 
the mounting block.

The nut could be worn and need rebuilt as andy has said, but the 
pictures show not too much wear and tear in and around the ball screw area.

Rick

On 2/26/2016 10:15 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> For everyone,
>
> Thank you I'll watch carefully.
>
> For Rick Lair,
>
> Have you ever had this problem with your  Sabre 750 ?
>
> 2016-02-26 16:03 GMT+01:00 andy pugh :
>
>> On 26 February 2016 at 14:00, Forum Deswysen 
>> wrote:
>>> *Can someone** tell me if this nut **is adjustable ???*
>> It doesn't look likely to be.
>>
>> The first place I would be looking would be at the screw thrust
>> bearings, though.
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
>> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>>
>>
>> --
>> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
>> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
>> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
>> Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
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>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
> --
> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
> Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
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> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

-- 

Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


--
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Forum Deswysen]

For everyone,

Thank you I'll watch carefully.

For Rick Lair,

Have you ever had this problem with your  Sabre 750 ?

2016-02-26 16:03 GMT+01:00 andy pugh :

> On 26 February 2016 at 14:00, Forum Deswysen 
> wrote:
> > *Can someone** tell me if this nut **is adjustable ???*
>
> It doesn't look likely to be.
>
> The first place I would be looking would be at the screw thrust
> bearings, though.
>
> --
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
>
> --
> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[andy pugh]

On 26 February 2016 at 14:00, Forum Deswysen  wrote:
> *Can someone** tell me if this nut **is adjustable ???*

It doesn't look likely to be.

The first place I would be looking would be at the screw thrust
bearings, though.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Rick Lair]

If this is any help, here is a link to a copy of our Sabre 750 Z axis 
ball screw layout, your machine looks identical to our machine.

https://app.box.com/s/tt0favgpkqrvd0e6uisglg0p6jutdoh4

Rick

On 2/26/2016 9:00 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> Hello Andy,
>
> Thank you for this additional information.
>
> *Can someone** tell me if this nut **is adjustable ???*
>
> Some pictures of the problem:
>
> To have no more weight on the screw, the head of the machine is placed on
> its transport support
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NOS1CdldvSi1MbzQ
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NS0Q5VDBvY3pGVjA
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre
>
> 2016-02-26 10:32 GMT+01:00 andy pugh :
>
>> On 26 February 2016 at 06:02, Forum Deswysen 
>> wrote:
>>> Yes that's it.
>> Don't ignore the possibility that the backlash/ slack might be in the
>> ballscrew bearings.
>>
>> Depending on the style of the ball-nut, it might be possible to adjust
>> the backlash.
>>
>> Isel make adjustable ball-nuts:
>> http://www.techno-isel.com/lmc/Products/BmNuts.htm
>> If you have them, then you just need to adjust them.
>>
>> Often the ball-nuts are a back-to-back pair with a spacer to set the
>> backlash/preload. If yours is like this, perhaps the clamping screws
>> have loosened.
>> If the screws are still tight then you might be able to grind / lap
>> the spacer to remove the backlash.
>>
>> If the ballnut/screw is a single piece then the options are
>> replacement or rebuilding with oversized balls. If the slack varies
>> with position the then wear is uneven, and oversized balls won't work.
>> This Amazon seller lists balls in very small increments around the nominal
>> size
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Ballscrew-Screw-Balls-0-1244-mm3-1597/dp/B0070I6824/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8=1456479041=8-19=precision+balls+ballscrew
>> There are videos on Youtube showing how to re-ball a ballnut.
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
>> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>>
>>
>> --
>> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
>> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
>> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
>> Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
> --
> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
> Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

-- 

Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Rick Lair]

Is the ball nut mounting block solidly attached to the back of the main 
spindle casting? There are probably 4-6 10mm or 12mm bolts, and 2 taper 
pins that attach the mounting block to the spindle casting, maybe the 
pins are sheared and the screws loose. Unless the mounting block is part 
of the casting, and the ball nut is in a cartridge that bolts/drops into 
the mounting block. That sounds/looks like a lot of backlash to be in 
nut alone.



On 2/26/2016 9:00 AM, Forum Deswysen wrote:
> Hello Andy,
>
> Thank you for this additional information.
>
> *Can someone** tell me if this nut **is adjustable ???*
>
> Some pictures of the problem:
>
> To have no more weight on the screw, the head of the machine is placed on
> its transport support
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NOS1CdldvSi1MbzQ
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NS0Q5VDBvY3pGVjA
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre
>
> 2016-02-26 10:32 GMT+01:00 andy pugh :
>
>> On 26 February 2016 at 06:02, Forum Deswysen 
>> wrote:
>>> Yes that's it.
>> Don't ignore the possibility that the backlash/ slack might be in the
>> ballscrew bearings.
>>
>> Depending on the style of the ball-nut, it might be possible to adjust
>> the backlash.
>>
>> Isel make adjustable ball-nuts:
>> http://www.techno-isel.com/lmc/Products/BmNuts.htm
>> If you have them, then you just need to adjust them.
>>
>> Often the ball-nuts are a back-to-back pair with a spacer to set the
>> backlash/preload. If yours is like this, perhaps the clamping screws
>> have loosened.
>> If the screws are still tight then you might be able to grind / lap
>> the spacer to remove the backlash.
>>
>> If the ballnut/screw is a single piece then the options are
>> replacement or rebuilding with oversized balls. If the slack varies
>> with position the then wear is uneven, and oversized balls won't work.
>> This Amazon seller lists balls in very small increments around the nominal
>> size
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Ballscrew-Screw-Balls-0-1244-mm3-1597/dp/B0070I6824/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8=1456479041=8-19=precision+balls+ballscrew
>> There are videos on Youtube showing how to re-ball a ballnut.
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
>> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>>
>>
>> --
>> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
>> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
>> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
>> Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
> --
> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
> Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

-- 

Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


--
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[Forum Deswysen]

Hello Andy,

Thank you for this additional information.

*Can someone** tell me if this nut **is adjustable ???*

Some pictures of the problem:

To have no more weight on the screw, the head of the machine is placed on
its transport support

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NOS1CdldvSi1MbzQ
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NS0Q5VDBvY3pGVjA
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5hmBjm5ot8NSDhCTmpsWkk3aVU

Best regards,

Pierre

2016-02-26 10:32 GMT+01:00 andy pugh :

> On 26 February 2016 at 06:02, Forum Deswysen 
> wrote:
> > Yes that's it.
>
> Don't ignore the possibility that the backlash/ slack might be in the
> ballscrew bearings.
>
> Depending on the style of the ball-nut, it might be possible to adjust
> the backlash.
>
> Isel make adjustable ball-nuts:
> http://www.techno-isel.com/lmc/Products/BmNuts.htm
> If you have them, then you just need to adjust them.
>
> Often the ball-nuts are a back-to-back pair with a spacer to set the
> backlash/preload. If yours is like this, perhaps the clamping screws
> have loosened.
> If the screws are still tight then you might be able to grind / lap
> the spacer to remove the backlash.
>
> If the ballnut/screw is a single piece then the options are
> replacement or rebuilding with oversized balls. If the slack varies
> with position the then wear is uneven, and oversized balls won't work.
> This Amazon seller lists balls in very small increments around the nominal
> size
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Ballscrew-Screw-Balls-0-1244-mm3-1597/dp/B0070I6824/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8=1456479041=8-19=precision+balls+ballscrew
> There are videos on Youtube showing how to re-ball a ballnut.
>
> --
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
>
> --
> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
> Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Stake in ball screw Cincinnati Arrow

[andy pugh]

On 26 February 2016 at 06:02, Forum Deswysen  wrote:
> Yes that's it.

Don't ignore the possibility that the backlash/ slack might be in the
ballscrew bearings.

Depending on the style of the ball-nut, it might be possible to adjust
the backlash.

Isel make adjustable ball-nuts:
http://www.techno-isel.com/lmc/Products/BmNuts.htm
If you have them, then you just need to adjust them.

Often the ball-nuts are a back-to-back pair with a spacer to set the
backlash/preload. If yours is like this, perhaps the clamping screws
have loosened.
If the screws are still tight then you might be able to grind / lap
the spacer to remove the backlash.

If the ballnut/screw is a single piece then the options are
replacement or rebuilding with oversized balls. If the slack varies
with position the then wear is uneven, and oversized balls won't work.
This Amazon seller lists balls in very small increments around the nominal size
http://www.amazon.com/Ballscrew-Screw-Balls-0-1244-mm3-1597/dp/B0070I6824/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8=1456479041=8-19=precision+balls+ballscrew
There are videos on Youtube showing how to re-ball a ballnut.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

--
Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
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