Re: [Emc-users] Surface grinder vertical axis servo motor and controller recommendation

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 19 November 2018 22:38:05 Tom Easterday wrote:

> A friend is fixing up a 70s vintage surface grinder that has a ball
> screw on the vertical axis and a non functioning drive.

What is wrong with the drive? It might be repairable with some fresh 
capacitors.

> He wants to 
> replace what is there with a servo motor and driver and have a simple
> control that lets him select several ranges, say 100, .010, .001,
> .0001 & .5 increments to move the spindle.

That level of control isn't a problem, I can extract the hal code to do 
that from a $20 mpja dial encoder, increments the move in 
a .0001, .0002, .0005, .0010, .0020 etc. Needs a pushbutton to select 
the distance per click, then release the button and move it. Movement is 
shown in the lcnc monitors dro displays.
 
I wouldn't do a servo if starting from square one.

> He asked what motor, driver, and control to use.  My experience with
> servos is pretty limited, I’ve built one gantry machine with them.  We
> used Kelling servos, CUI encoders, Granite Devices drivers and Mesa
> cards with Linuxcnc.  A full Linuxcnc controller seems like overkill
> though to control a single axis in fixed increments but I am not sure
> what other options there are.  I am curious what folks here would
> recommend for this application?

Because it will need to scan the surface, it seems to me LCNC would be 
pretty ideal, with suitably sized steppers all around. You don't 
normally drive a surface grinder at >20 ipm , and steppers can do that 
nicely. You can also write the code to remove as little as you want per 
pass, even staying ahead of wheel wear once thats been characterized.

Seems like servo's would be overkill for that job.

> -Tom

My 2 cents Tom.
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] question on progress of addf survey tool.

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 19 November 2018 22:05:03 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 11/19/2018 04:38 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Monday 19 November 2018 05:06:29 Nicklas SB Karlsson
> >
> > wrote:
> >> What did you want to discuss with the addf function?
> >>
> >> I used it and think it works but what's more?
> >
> > We need a utility that detects out of order addf's, each
> > of which then
> > causes a one thread execution delay in the data traveling
> > that path.
>
> WOW!  This would be like a program that detects improper
> word order in the English language!
> While theoretically POSSIBLE, I think it would be quite hard
> to do. You could look at the net commands, and figure out
> which pins are outputs and which are inputs, and then kind
> of determine what the flow is SUPPOSED to be, and then see
> if the addfs execute the hal components in the same order.
> But, it isn't so simple!  Some hal components are not in the
> "critical path" and so the order is much less important.
> AND, for instance, all of the Pico Systems devices have an
> INTENTIONAL "violation" of this rule.  The reason is that
> when the command to come out of E-stop is given, the modules
> are not SEEN to be out of E-stop until the next servo cycle
> reads the inputs.  This allows the E-stop software-side FF
> to not get sent back to E-stop immediately.  So, if you
> "fix" the addf order, you will not be able to come out of
> E-stop.
>
> Finally, even if you were to find conflicts between net flow
> and addf's, if you get the net wiring wrong, the proposed
> tool would only make sure the addf's were consistent with that.
>
> So, using the hal show, halmeter and halscope tools, plus
> understanding what is going on in the HAL layer, is the only
> real way to get it right (in my opinion).
>
> Jon
>
>
You may be right Jon, but it would quite a few printouts of the hal file 
to study up and check each path for such errors, and likely over a week 
to find and fix 2 errors.  And maybe a rockhopper survey or 3, which 
takes about a day to print out and paste up here, so make it 2 weeks to 
find & fix 2, maybe 3 errors.

Probably the best way would be to trace thru each major path, writing 
down the modules name in the order is used in hal, and then compare that 
list with what you have in the addf stanza of your hal file. Bearing in 
mind that you don't want to get side-tracked by paths that diverge.

A limit switch input one normally writes in the logic sequence, and that 
path is generally pretty short and that path is finished once its data 
has been delivered to the motion module above the motion modules own 
addf. Mark the addf's done to that point, take the next path, and group 
its addf's in the logic path order.  Wash, rinse and repeat till all the 
addf's in front of motion are accounted for.  Then do the same thing 
with motions outputs. But to be working with the current config, you 
want to start each new path trace with a fresh printout all around, 
rockhopper and all. I can see a ream of paper and $50 in printer 
expendables used once and binned, except for the last set that goes in 
the book for that machine.

Both the Sheldon and the G0704 have by now, very complex hal files 
approaching 1000 LOC. TLM is at least 600 LOC.  Not a job I'd relish 
unless something is all aglay anyhow.  The only really simple one is the 
software stepping little HF mill, it and the Sheldon both benefit 
timewise by not using any PID's

Oh, and I apologize for spelling Jon as Jom yesterday. Its hell trying to 
see when the glasses lens are so far off because I'm in the middle of 
getting my cataracts fixed. I didn't see that till the echo came back 
from the list-server.

Take care, Jon.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Surface grinder vertical axis servo motor and controller recommendation

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Tom Easterday [mailto:tom-...@bgp.nu]
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:38 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] Surface grinder vertical axis servo motor and 
> controller
> recommendation
>
> A friend is fixing up a 70s vintage surface grinder that has a ball screw on 
> the
> vertical axis and a non functioning drive.  He wants to replace what is 
> there
> with a servo motor and driver and have a simple control that lets him select
> several ranges, say 100, .010, .001, .0001 & .5 increments to move the
> spindle.
>
> He asked what motor, driver, and control to use.  My experience with servos
> is pretty limited, I've built one gantry machine with them.  We used Kelling
> servos, CUI encoders, Granite Devices drivers and Mesa cards with Linuxcnc.
> A full Linuxcnc controller seems like overkill though to control a single 
> axis in
> fixed increments but I am not sure what other options there are.  I am 
> curious
> what folks here would recommend for this application?
>
> -Tom
>

Why the insistence on a servo? A stepper would be cheaper and, unless I'm 
missing something, suitable. It is probably heresy on the LinuxCNC list but 
why not use an Arduino + Gecko or maybe a ClearPath? There is ample Arduino 
sample code showing how to control a stepper and display settings on a LCD.




___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Surface grinder vertical axis servo motor and controller recommendation

[Bruce Layne]

While LinuxCNC does seem like overkill for such a simple CNC project, it 
would still be my first choice.


It's inexpensive and easy to toss together a LinuxCNC control system, 
and this minimal system will be even simpler than most.


LinuxCNC offers a lot of potential for expansion if that should be 
required later.  It probably seems that there would never be a need to 
expand the surface grinder controls, but most systems that are in use 
tend toward greater complexity over time. What about controlling a 
coolant pump?  What about a magnetic chuck?  It might be good to verify 
that the chuck is securing the part the entire time the program is 
operating.  What about over travel limit switches?


LinuxCNC will be supported until the entropic heat death of the 
universe, and LinuxCNC uses standard, modular, interchangeable 
off-the-shelf hardware components, so a LinuxCNC based system will never 
be stuck with a dead proprietary control system.  Once converted to 
LinuxCNC, machines are much easier and less expensive to maintain 
because there are no discontinued proprietary parts.


Not many shops have a surface grinder and nothing else.  I like the idea 
of using LinuxCNC for all of the CNC machine tools.  Supporting a full 
shop of CNC machinery becomes a lot simpler when they all use the same 
CNC software and common control electronics design practices.  Whether 
designing and building machines from scratch or converting manual 
machines or old CNC machines with good iron and dead controls, I greatly 
prefer to install my own LinuxCNC control systems.






On 11/19/18 10:38 PM, Tom Easterday wrote:

A friend is fixing up a 70s vintage surface grinder that has a ball screw on the 
vertical axis and a non functioning drive.  He wants to replace what is there with 
a servo motor and driver and have a simple control that lets him select several 
ranges, say 100, .010, .001, .0001 & .5 increments to move the spindle.

He asked what motor, driver, and control to use.  My experience with servos is 
pretty limited, I’ve built one gantry machine with them.  We used Kelling 
servos, CUI encoders, Granite Devices drivers and Mesa cards with Linuxcnc.  A 
full Linuxcnc controller seems like overkill though to control a single axis in 
fixed increments but I am not sure what other options there are.  I am curious 
what folks here would recommend for this application?

-Tom


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users




___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Surface grinder vertical axis servo motor and controller recommendation

[Jon Elson]

On 11/19/2018 10:20 PM, Jon Elson wrote:

On 11/19/2018 09:38 PM, Tom Easterday wrote:
A friend is fixing up a 70s vintage surface grinder that 
has a ball screw on the vertical axis and a non 
functioning drive.  He wants to replace what is there 
with a servo motor and driver and have a simple control 
that lets him select several ranges, say 100, .010, .001, 
.0001 & .5 increments to move the spindle.


He asked what motor, driver, and control to use.  My 
experience with servos is pretty limited, I’ve built one 
gantry machine with them.  We used Kelling servos, CUI 
encoders, Granite Devices drivers and Mesa cards with 
Linuxcnc.  A full Linuxcnc controller seems like overkill 
though to control a single axis in fixed increments but I 
am not sure what other options there are.  I am curious 
what folks here would recommend for this application?



Well, if you can do it with a stepper, a Beagle Bone and 
the Machinekit branch of LinuxCNC is a pretty small and 
low-cost way to go.  The whole controller (for really 
small motors) can fit in a 4" cube or so.


Jon




___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] Surface grinder vertical axis servo motor and controller recommendation

[Tom Easterday]

A friend is fixing up a 70s vintage surface grinder that has a ball screw on 
the vertical axis and a non functioning drive.  He wants to replace what is 
there with a servo motor and driver and have a simple control that lets him 
select several ranges, say 100, .010, .001, .0001 & .5 increments to move 
the spindle.

He asked what motor, driver, and control to use.  My experience with servos is 
pretty limited, I’ve built one gantry machine with them.  We used Kelling 
servos, CUI encoders, Granite Devices drivers and Mesa cards with Linuxcnc.  A 
full Linuxcnc controller seems like overkill though to control a single axis in 
fixed increments but I am not sure what other options there are.  I am curious 
what folks here would recommend for this application?

-Tom


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] question on progress of addf survey tool.

[Jon Elson]

On 11/19/2018 04:38 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
On Monday 19 November 2018 05:06:29 Nicklas SB Karlsson 
wrote:



What did you want to discuss with the addf function?

I used it and think it works but what's more?

We need a utility that detects out of order addf's, each 
of which then
causes a one thread execution delay in the data traveling 
that path.
WOW!  This would be like a program that detects improper 
word order in the English language!
While theoretically POSSIBLE, I think it would be quite hard 
to do. You could look at the net commands, and figure out 
which pins are outputs and which are inputs, and then kind 
of determine what the flow is SUPPOSED to be, and then see 
if the addfs execute the hal components in the same order.  
But, it isn't so simple!  Some hal components are not in the 
"critical path" and so the order is much less important.  
AND, for instance, all of the Pico Systems devices have an 
INTENTIONAL "violation" of this rule.  The reason is that 
when the command to come out of E-stop is given, the modules 
are not SEEN to be out of E-stop until the next servo cycle 
reads the inputs.  This allows the E-stop software-side FF 
to not get sent back to E-stop immediately.  So, if you 
"fix" the addf order, you will not be able to come out of 
E-stop.


Finally, even if you were to find conflicts between net flow 
and addf's, if you get the net wiring wrong, the proposed 
tool would only make sure the addf's were consistent with that.


So, using the hal show, halmeter and halscope tools, plus 
understanding what is going on in the HAL layer, is the only 
real way to get it right (in my opinion).


Jon




___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Recall: new docs

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 19 November 2018 20:03:51 andy pugh wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Nov 2018 at 00:47, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Is there something wrong with saying thank you? Someone obviously
> > put in some fairly serious time doing that.
>
> I had a look through the commits to the docs and I am not sure what
> changes you are talking about. I don't think that the remap docs have
> changed since 2016.
>
> Maybe you were using a really old set of docs?

The docs that go with master & get updated everytime master is updated?

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Recall: new docs

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 20 Nov 2018 at 00:47, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Is there something wrong with saying thank you? Someone obviously put in
> some fairly serious time doing that.

I had a look through the commits to the docs and I am not sure what
changes you are talking about. I don't think that the remap docs have
changed since 2016.

Maybe you were using a really old set of docs?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Recall: new docs

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 19 November 2018 09:36:35 Todd Zuercher wrote:

> Todd Zuercher would like to recall the message, "[Emc-users] new
> docs".
>
Is there something wrong with saying thank you? Someone obviously put in 
some fairly serious time doing that.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] question on progress of addf survey tool.

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 19 November 2018 14:28:14 Nicklas Karlsson wrote:

> > On Monday 19 November 2018 05:06:29 Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:
> > > What did you want to discuss with the addf function?
> > >
> > > I used it and think it works but what's more?
> >
> > We need a utility that detects out of order addf's, each of which
> > then causes a one thread execution delay in the data traveling that
> > path. Data from a limit/home switch to use a real simple circuit,
> > should be present at the motion input when motion is invoked. But
> > what if the debounce addf is out of its assumed order? Placed below
> > motion in that thread?
>
> With out of order you mean output from one thread is used in another
> thread?

Only where it makes sense, see below.

> Otherwise I anywhere within period is ok.

No, its not, because if a module is out of order, too early, and is being 
fed from another module thats later in the thread, then its input is 
always stale by one thread time.  That can be hell to find when you 
can't move 2 thou without generating a following error.

> > But to use the jog dials on my bigger lathe as another example,
> > which run in a slower 200 hertz thread, theres at least 40 LOC
> > between the dial and the data applied to motions jog inputs. For
> > each dial.
>
> Then data from slower thread is used update is done within same
> periodicity in higher priority? Or jitter around? Or you do not know?

Yes, its used in a faster thread once its been processed in the slower 
thread. This lack of synch is not a problem, but within each thread, out 
of order is going to be a problem.
>
> > I see that addf can take a 3rd optional argument "location" ...
>
> "location" is execution order?

Don't know, no docs that I can find, so that is a reasonable assumption, 
however I am not going out on that limb with intentions of sawing it off 
behind me without the someone who added that option confirming that.

The next question is, if we are going to diddle the execution order, are 
the threads isolated? The idea of using a separate slower thread came to 
mind as a way to alleviate some of the main "servo" thread from having 
to process data generated by human hands that move at <2.5% of the servo 
threads responses. This on the Rpi-3b thats running my 11x36 Sheldon.

I've not totally converted it to dual thread, I am sure there are 
functions that could be moved to the slower thread, and the thread 
itself further slowed, but what I have right now is working well, like 
the jog dials. With those, I've restricted the range quite a bit from my 
original idea as I can still turn the dials faster than the machine can 
move, so theres a windup, however I've read that I can configure to have 
a jog stop when I stop turning the dial, throwing away the windup, but 
thats not tested (yet). That may need a lowpass running at servo speed 
just to keep it running if no new data arrives in a given servo cycle. 
Equ to a 20 ms max_accel might be enough to make it move smoother.

There are so many things that can be done with linuxcnc that I've not had 
the time or the need so far to explore. Like coercing a G76 to cut a 
tapered 50 tpi thread 3/4" long where I needed to get a grip on an 
unmachined ball screw. It works perfectly if the length of the taper is 
one spindle turn shorter than the length of the thread, and that grip is 
whats driving the x screw in the Sheldon right now. Made all of that 
stuff on The Little Monster as my 7x12 is known as here on this list. 
Also cnc'd. Tapered gibs, threw the willow tree compound away & made a 
cast base for the qctp.. :)
>
> A well defined execution order could be a solution. Then there a
> simple cases with output from one used in other, simple criss cross
> and hard to sort out feedback.

+1, Understatement of the month... But one thing I'm generally doing is 
mixing only at the motion inputs. Unless I've accidently jumped the 
fence. :( All machine moves and feedback remains in the servo thread, 
but the human stuff only has to be faster than the human. My x 
corrections for the worn bed are all in the slow thread except the 
offset module itself, its inputs from the lincurve are far slower than 
the machine can move. One step at time stuff.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Recall: new docs

[Nicklas Karlsson]

?

He want to keep the new docs for himself?


> Todd Zuercher would like to recall the message, "[Emc-users] new docs".
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] Recall: new docs

[Todd Zuercher]

Todd Zuercher would like to recall the message, "[Emc-users] new docs".

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] question on progress of addf survey tool.

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> On Monday 19 November 2018 05:06:29 Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:
> 
> > What did you want to discuss with the addf function?
> >
> > I used it and think it works but what's more?
> >
> We need a utility that detects out of order addf's, each of which then 
> causes a one thread execution delay in the data traveling that path. 
> Data from a limit/home switch to use a real simple circuit, should be 
> present at the motion input when motion is invoked. But what if the 
> debounce addf is out of its assumed order? Placed below motion in that 
> thread?

With out of order you mean output from one thread is used in another thread?

Otherwise I anywhere within period is ok.

> But to use the jog dials on my bigger lathe as another example, which run 
> in a slower 200 hertz thread, theres at least 40 LOC between the dial 
> and the data applied to motions jog inputs. For each dial.

Then data from slower thread is used update is done within same periodicity in 
higher priority? Or jitter around? Or you do not know?

> I see that addf can take a 3rd optional argument "location" ...

"location" is execution order?

A well defined execution order could be a solution. Then there a simple cases 
with output from one used in other, simple criss cross and hard to sort out 
feedback.


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] turning cycle

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2018 at 17:44, Tage Johansson  wrote:

> I have read something on the web, and I understood that I should put
> something in the RS274NG section and some python files at some location
> to get it to work. Can you just explain better?

Look at the sample config here:
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/tree/andypugh/g71type2remap/configs/sim/axis/g71
copy the entire "python" folder into your own config folder.
Then from the INI file copy the entire [PYTHON] and [RS274NGC]
sections in to your own config.

That _should_ do it.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] turning cycle

[Tage Johansson]

I've some experience in tool path programming, and also some experience
in c. So I wonder if I can help you with this?

If you want to, that would be great. You would need to check with
mozmck if this would be acceptable for introduction in to 2.8 at this
point. (I think probably it would, a new G-code shouldn't affect
existing behaviour)



I will probably do that if I get time.



Just be aware that if all you want to do is make things on your lathe
then you can simply install the remap on your current LinuxCNC
installation and you will have G71 and G72 available (no coding, no
compiling)



I think that would be the choice until G71 get implemented in the 
interpreter, either by me or by anyone else.



I have no experience in GCode-remapping, so I wonder if you can help me 
a bit.


I have read something on the web, and I understood that I should put 
something in the RS274NG section and some python files at some location 
to get it to work. Can you just explain better?



(Note, I don't think the docs is bad, I just think it will take less 
time to ask some smart people than try to figure it out myself.)



Best regards,

Tage




___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] new docs

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 19 November 2018 08:45:32 Les Newell wrote:

> > I don't have any spares that are 100% functional. I blew the probe
> > input on one while doing EDM on that machine, and a loose ground on
> > the frame of the G0704 did the probe input on another.
>
> If it's just one input you could just not use that input.
>
> > I've seen something similar, bring about $1000 to own it.  Made for
> > bigger mills than my GO704 though.
>
> Yikes. I didn't realize they are so expensive. I paid £1000 for the
> whole machine. It's a Hurco Hawk like this one
> .
>
> What size impact wrench are you using?

Its a small Dewalt, 18 volt screwdriver with an impact mechanism driving 
a 1/4" hex chuck. A 2" long 1/4" hex to 1/4" square adapter to hold the 
8 point 5/16 socket which fits the 8mm square bolt head quite nicely. 
Strictly patented by Rube Goldberg :) Works surprisingly well though.

I've not had a tool work downward in an r8 collet since I started using 
it as it gets it tighter than I can with the 8mm end wrench supplied.

A TTS er-32 still needs a 22mm end wrench seriously applied to the TTS 
body and a 40mm crescent on the collet nut tightening to stop them from 
working, cutting ever deeper until the tool snaps off though. Major 
PIMA, and quite costly if I don't apply the 22mm wrench holding the TTS 
body and an even bigger crescent on the nut firmly enough. Slippage 
between the 3/4 r8 collet and the shank of the unkeyed TTS adapter is a 
problem when trying to rigid tap, which is why I invented a way to key 
the tap holder into a 7/8" r8 collet, each of about 65 pieces of 7/8" 
brass rod that holds the tap by grub screws to the 4 tap flats, has a 
4mm cap screw in the side of the brass that fits in a notch cut in the 
mouth of the 7/8" R8 so it cannot slip and taps last till the cows come 
home to be milked. One 4mm tap is all I've twisted off since, took the 
part to the little mill and EDM'd that tap out and finished that hole by 
hand with a fresh tap.  A Part for my camera mount on the spindle lock.

I did consider trying to drop a wrench with a square hole over the 
drawbar, but quickly came to the conclusion the spindle motor even in 
low gear, simple didn't have enough torque to do the job, particularly 
since the gears are plastic. So locating and engaging the locking hole 
to immobilize the spindle against the impact wrench seemed to be next 
logical thing to try, and it works well, but means I can't do lights out 
stuff until I solve all the tool changer drive problems.  And I can't do 
that with the gpio's available from a 5i25. I think I might have 3 
inputs left in the existing config. Nowhere near enough to tally what 
the changer has completed so it can then do the next step.

Needs more horses for the beggar. ;-)

Cheers Les.

>
> On 19/11/2018 13:04, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Monday 19 November 2018 07:31:09 Les Newell wrote:
> >> Hi Gene,
> >>
> >>> I have taken to using an impact screwdriver tool on the
> >>> drawbar, and means to rack it up and down must be devised just to
> >>> engage it with the drawbar.
> >
> > This drawbar has a 5/16 square tip, so its driven by an 8 point
> > socket. Rather than band it at the same time as the air cylinder
> > pushes, I think I'd like to run the spindle at 15 or 20 rpm which
> > would engage the socket with much less shockload. The wrench has
> > enough power its splitting that 8 point socket slowly so I've bought
> > spares.
> >
> > The next problem is in getting it to spin slow enough the pin can
> > drop into the spindle lock without breaking the pin or wallering out
> > the hole. Maybe I can do a spindle home, then drop the socket.  I
> > don't imagine the plastic gears in the head could take that wrenches
> > beating for long. It can pull the bar tight enough I can't loosen it
> > again with the supplied wrench, so I don't let it hammer for any
> > more than I can get my finger off the trigger.
> >
> >> I have a commercially made drawbar that works like this. The impact
> >> driver is simply pushed down by a pneumatic ram which is driven at
> >> the same time the driver is energized. The motor starts spinning as
> >> it drops, allowing the drive spline to line up with a spline the
> >> drawbar.
> >
> > I've seen something similar, bring about $1000 to own it.  Made for
> > bigger mills than my GO704 though.
> >
> >>> A 5i25 simply doesn't have enough pins.
> >
> > And the 7i76D has lots more output power than a 5i25. I think it can
> > drive the relays to run the wrench, or turn on the vacuum by way of
> > another ice cube without any extra buffering, just a diode across
> > the relay coil.  Same relays can run the chain drive to change the
> > tool.
> >
> >> Do you already have a 5i25? AFAIK you can have multiple cards so
> >> you could simply add another.
> >
> > I don't have any spares that are 100% functional. I blew the probe
> > input on one while doing EDM on that machine, and a loose groun

Re: [Emc-users] new docs

[Todd Zuercher]

Here is one that the ebay add says delivery on or before Wednesday.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Panasonic-BR-AGCF2W-A98L-0031-0011-High-Capacity-PLC-battery/292765263785?hash=item442a2b67a9:g:rxwAAOSwbD1Zg-1t:rk:4:pf:0


Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Les Newell  
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 8:46 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] new docs

> I don't have any spares that are 100% functional. I blew the probe 
> input on one while doing EDM on that machine, and a loose ground on 
> the frame of the G0704 did the probe input on another.

If it's just one input you could just not use that input.

> I've seen something similar, bring about $1000 to own it.  Made for 
> bigger mills than my GO704 though.

Yikes. I didn't realize they are so expensive. I paid £1000 for the whole 
machine. It's a Hurco Hawk like this one 
.

What size impact wrench are you using?

Les



On 19/11/2018 13:04, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Monday 19 November 2018 07:31:09 Les Newell wrote:
>
>> Hi Gene,
>>
>>> I have taken to using an impact screwdriver tool on the drawbar, and 
>>> means to rack it up and down must be devised just to engage it with 
>>> the drawbar.
> This drawbar has a 5/16 square tip, so its driven by an 8 point socket.
> Rather than band it at the same time as the air cylinder pushes, I 
> think I'd like to run the spindle at 15 or 20 rpm which would engage 
> the socket with much less shockload. The wrench has enough power its 
> splitting that 8 point socket slowly so I've bought spares.
>
> The next problem is in getting it to spin slow enough the pin can drop 
> into the spindle lock without breaking the pin or wallering out the 
> hole. Maybe I can do a spindle home, then drop the socket.  I don't 
> imagine the plastic gears in the head could take that wrenches beating 
> for long. It can pull the bar tight enough I can't loosen it again 
> with the supplied wrench, so I don't let it hammer for any more than I 
> can get my finger off the trigger.
>
>> I have a commercially made drawbar that works like this. The impact 
>> driver is simply pushed down by a pneumatic ram which is driven at 
>> the same time the driver is energized. The motor starts spinning as 
>> it drops, allowing the drive spline to line up with a spline the drawbar.
> I've seen something similar, bring about $1000 to own it.  Made for 
> bigger mills than my GO704 though.
>
>>> A 5i25 simply doesn't have enough pins.
> And the 7i76D has lots more output power than a 5i25. I think it can 
> drive the relays to run the wrench, or turn on the vacuum by way of 
> another ice cube without any extra buffering, just a diode across the 
> relay coil.  Same relays can run the chain drive to change the tool.
>
>> Do you already have a 5i25? AFAIK you can have multiple cards so you 
>> could simply add another.
> I don't have any spares that are 100% functional. I blew the probe 
> input on one while doing EDM on that machine, and a loose ground on 
> the frame of the G0704 did the probe input on another.
>
>> Les
>>
> Thanks Les.
>



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] new docs

[Les Newell]

I don't have any spares that are 100% functional. I blew the probe input
on one while doing EDM on that machine, and a loose ground on the frame
of the G0704 did the probe input on another.


If it's just one input you could just not use that input.


I've seen something similar, bring about $1000 to own it.  Made for
bigger mills than my GO704 though.


Yikes. I didn't realize they are so expensive. I paid £1000 for the 
whole machine. It's a Hurco Hawk like this one 
.


What size impact wrench are you using?

Les



On 19/11/2018 13:04, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Monday 19 November 2018 07:31:09 Les Newell wrote:


Hi Gene,


I have taken to using an impact screwdriver tool on the
drawbar, and means to rack it up and down must be devised just to
engage it with the drawbar.

This drawbar has a 5/16 square tip, so its driven by an 8 point socket.
Rather than band it at the same time as the air cylinder pushes, I think
I'd like to run the spindle at 15 or 20 rpm which would engage the
socket with much less shockload. The wrench has enough power its
splitting that 8 point socket slowly so I've bought spares.

The next problem is in getting it to spin slow enough the pin can drop
into the spindle lock without breaking the pin or wallering out the
hole. Maybe I can do a spindle home, then drop the socket.  I don't
imagine the plastic gears in the head could take that wrenches beating
for long. It can pull the bar tight enough I can't loosen it again with
the supplied wrench, so I don't let it hammer for any more than I can
get my finger off the trigger.


I have a commercially made drawbar that works like this. The impact
driver is simply pushed down by a pneumatic ram which is driven at the
same time the driver is energized. The motor starts spinning as it
drops, allowing the drive spline to line up with a spline the drawbar.

I've seen something similar, bring about $1000 to own it.  Made for
bigger mills than my GO704 though.


A 5i25 simply doesn't have enough pins.

And the 7i76D has lots more output power than a 5i25. I think it can
drive the relays to run the wrench, or turn on the vacuum by way of
another ice cube without any extra buffering, just a diode across the
relay coil.  Same relays can run the chain drive to change the tool.


Do you already have a 5i25? AFAIK you can have multiple cards so you
could simply add another.

I don't have any spares that are 100% functional. I blew the probe input
on one while doing EDM on that machine, and a loose ground on the frame
of the G0704 did the probe input on another.


Les


Thanks Les.





___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] new docs

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 19 November 2018 07:31:09 Les Newell wrote:

> Hi Gene,
>
> > I have taken to using an impact screwdriver tool on the
> > drawbar, and means to rack it up and down must be devised just to
> > engage it with the drawbar.
>
This drawbar has a 5/16 square tip, so its driven by an 8 point socket. 
Rather than band it at the same time as the air cylinder pushes, I think 
I'd like to run the spindle at 15 or 20 rpm which would engage the 
socket with much less shockload. The wrench has enough power its 
splitting that 8 point socket slowly so I've bought spares.

The next problem is in getting it to spin slow enough the pin can drop 
into the spindle lock without breaking the pin or wallering out the 
hole. Maybe I can do a spindle home, then drop the socket.  I don't 
imagine the plastic gears in the head could take that wrenches beating 
for long. It can pull the bar tight enough I can't loosen it again with 
the supplied wrench, so I don't let it hammer for any more than I can 
get my finger off the trigger.

> I have a commercially made drawbar that works like this. The impact
> driver is simply pushed down by a pneumatic ram which is driven at the
> same time the driver is energized. The motor starts spinning as it
> drops, allowing the drive spline to line up with a spline the drawbar.

I've seen something similar, bring about $1000 to own it.  Made for 
bigger mills than my GO704 though.

> > A 5i25 simply doesn't have enough pins.

And the 7i76D has lots more output power than a 5i25. I think it can 
drive the relays to run the wrench, or turn on the vacuum by way of 
another ice cube without any extra buffering, just a diode across the 
relay coil.  Same relays can run the chain drive to change the tool.

> Do you already have a 5i25? AFAIK you can have multiple cards so you
> could simply add another.

I don't have any spares that are 100% functional. I blew the probe input 
on one while doing EDM on that machine, and a loose ground on the frame 
of the G0704 did the probe input on another. 

> Les
>
Thanks Les.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] new docs

[Les Newell]

Hi Gene,


I have taken to using an impact screwdriver tool on the
drawbar, and means to rack it up and down must be devised just to engage
it with the drawbar.
I have a commercially made drawbar that works like this. The impact 
driver is simply pushed down by a pneumatic ram which is driven at the 
same time the driver is energized. The motor starts spinning as it 
drops, allowing the drive spline to line up with a spline the drawbar.



A 5i25 simply doesn't have enough pins.


Do you already have a 5i25? AFAIK you can have multiple cards so you 
could simply add another.


Les



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] new docs

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 19 November 2018 05:21:42 andy pugh wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Nov 2018 at 02:40, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > > This is a stepper machine?
> >
> > Yes. But a pdm spindle setup on the 5i25's p3.
> > What firmware should I program the 5i25 with?
> >
> > The pdf I've pulled and printed  doesn't say what the D version is,
> > but I'm assuming it means differential inputs are available.
>
> You don't say what card you are looking at, but in cases where Mesa
> offers a "D" version that typically means that it has sinking rather
> than sourcing outputs.

So I should order the D version. And I did find that on a re-read.

> You might want to consider the possibility that Peter knows what he is
> doing, and wouldn't fit optos that limited the performance of his
> hardware.

I have always done that, but you made me go back and re-read the manual 
for the 7i76, and only 2 pins are opto isolated, for driving the vfd 
direction inputs, and opto's are I think more than fast enough for that.  
So thats clarified and not a concern.

I'm getting the impression that I might need only one of these to run my 
mill, but it would be a whole new hal file, with p2 essentially unused. 
That, since it would essentially replace the SainSmart bobs at the same 
time, will take a major re-wiring but I can probably put it all in one 
box, consolidating some of the mess that like Topsy, has grown up around 
the big box I originally built to house all the electronics. Darned 
stuff is never big enough seems to be Murphy's Law. I like that, 
neater/cleaner.

Thanks Andy

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] question on progress of addf survey tool.

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 19 November 2018 05:06:29 Nicklas SB Karlsson wrote:

> What did you want to discuss with the addf function?
>
> I used it and think it works but what's more?
>
We need a utility that detects out of order addf's, each of which then 
causes a one thread execution delay in the data traveling that path. 
Data from a limit/home switch to use a real simple circuit, should be 
present at the motion input when motion is invoked. But what if the 
debounce addf is out of its assumed order? Placed below motion in that 
thread?

But to use the jog dials on my bigger lathe as another example, which run 
in a slower 200 hertz thread, theres at least 40 LOC between the dial 
and the data applied to motions jog inputs. For each dial.

Similar problems can effect the motion signals on their way back to the 
machine.

When you have a 600+ LOC hal file, such performance threatening nuances 
can get written into it far too easily.

I see that addf can take a 3rd optional argument "location", that is new 
at least to me and is not discussed that I've been able to find.  That 
should be defined so it might be able to sort an addf stanza into a 
better thread execution order, if thats what it is. But its not defined. 

> On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 21:47:12 -0500
>
> Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > I expressed an interest in such a survey tool/utility 2 or 3 months
> > back.
> >
> > Has there been any progress in writing it?
> >
> > One thing I noted about the updated Doc is that there is a nearly
> > vanishing use of it and no mention of it other than an optional
> > location argument, which I'm assuming means its order in the thread.
> >  It's an option I've not seen discussed anyplace.  Where can I find
> > a discussion on the addf function as its implemented for 2.8/master?
> >
> > --
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] new docs

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2018 at 02:40, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> > This is a stepper machine?
>
> Yes. But a pdm spindle setup on the 5i25's p3.
> What firmware should I program the 5i25 with?
>
> The pdf I've pulled and printed  doesn't say what the D version is, but
> I'm assuming it means differential inputs are available.

You don't say what card you are looking at, but in cases where Mesa
offers a "D" version that typically means that it has sinking rather
than sourcing outputs.

You might want to consider the possibility that Peter knows what he is
doing, and wouldn't fit optos that limited the performance of his
hardware.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] question on progress of addf survey tool.

[Nicklas SB Karlsson]

What did you want to discuss with the addf function?

I used it and think it works but what's more?


On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 21:47:12 -0500
Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Greetings all;
> 
> I expressed an interest in such a survey tool/utility 2 or 3 months back.
> 
> Has there been any progress in writing it?
> 
> One thing I noted about the updated Doc is that there is a nearly 
> vanishing use of it and no mention of it other than an optional location 
> argument, which I'm assuming means its order in the thread.  It's an 
> option I've not seen discussed anyplace.  Where can I find a discussion 
> on the addf function as its implemented for 2.8/master?
> 
> -- 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users