Re: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor

[Curtis Dutton]

On a past life before I started using servos I had attached encoders to my
steppers to stop the machine when steps were missed. I used us digital
encoders that came with adhesive backed mounts from the factory. They
worked swimmingly. I still have one in the "spare parts" room. The encoder
is still securely attached over 10 years later. "double sided tape"
essentially woked very well.

On Mon, Jun 26, 2023, 3:11 PM Todd Zuercher  wrote:

> I was just about to suggest gluing the thing on.  You beat me to it.
>
> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Roland Jollivet 
> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2023 1:17 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> Subject: [Emc-users] Drilling holes in the back of a stepper motor
>
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.
>
> You have such a large flat surface area there. Design an encoder mount
> plate of similar size where the end result is also has a flat surface.
>
> Rough and clean the back of the motor up, then use a decent polyurethane
> adhesive to bond it on. During the setup you could use a jig to keep it
> concentric with the shaft.
> Design it in such a way that you can still replace the encoder if need be.
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, 25 Jun 2023 at 05:31, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
>
> > I want to add an encoder onto the back of this stepper motor.  I can
> > install either a US Digital or a CUI since both mounting flanges can
> > extend out near the edges of the back mounting plate.
> >
> >
> >
> > Is there any reason I can't clamp the motor in a vice and pop in two
> holes
> > and tap them with a bottom tap at the spacing of the mounting flange?
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
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> >
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Tool Height Sensor Position

[Curtis Dutton]

I attached one to a magnetic base.

On Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 10:57 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

> A few photos of your mounted setup would be really helpful.  If you can't
> post them to the list just pm me.
> Thanks
> John
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Feral Engineer [mailto:theferalengin...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: November-29-22 5:37 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool Height Sensor Position
> >
> > Mine are all permanently mounted, as a proper tool height setter should
> be.
> >
> > Phil T.
> > The Feral Engineer
> >
> > Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
> > www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer
> >
> > Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
> > www.patreon.com/theferalengineer
> >
> > Order one of the coolest label makers on the market at
> > http://labelworks.epson.com, use coupon code "theferalengineer" and
> receive
> > 20% off of your order ??
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 29, 2022, 8:25 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> >
> > > My tool height sensor arrived today.  Needless to say I dropped
> everything
> > > (almost) to play with it.  Nicely sensitive.  Good over travel before
> NC
> > > sensor opens so that second switch could be in series with Z axis
> limit.
> > >
> > > The photo here
> > > http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/TouchProbe/TouchPosition-1.jpg
> > > shows the location the table goes to for the tool change position.
> Just a
> > > tad off X and Y limit switches.
> > >
> > > I've placed the sensor under that location to eyeball where it would
> > > likely be the best place to mount.  Trouble is I'm not really happy
> with
> > > the idea of a permanent mount.  It's really in the way.
> > >
> > > I could move it to the back of the table but all that space to the left
> > > for clamping or even just sliding the vise out of the way is still
> > > obstructed by the sensor.
> > >
> > > Since I'm using TTS holders for most things (face mill and larger drill
> > > chucks are R8) so for a standard make 5 of something I can see setting
> the
> > > tools into the LinuxCNC tool table, changing tools and the setter isn't
> > > even needed once the tools have had their length entered into the tool
> > > table.
> > >
> > > It's when I need that one or two tools like drill bits that need to be
> > > measured on the fly that a tool change and then tool measurement
> operation
> > > are needed.
> > >
> > > For the LinuxCNC users out there, using a tool height sensor similar to
> > > this what do you do?
> > >
> > > Leave it in place forever?
> > >
> > > Leave it in place for the job?
> > >
> > > Place it and hold down with say a toggle clamp (or something) when
> needed?
> > >
> > > I realize this will be an "It depends" answer.
> > >
> > > There's also the option to hook up air to clean the top and not even
> > > bother with the tool table length entry.  Just measure it each time but
> > > that seems time consuming.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> > ___
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>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] PCI-E adapter to PCI?

[Curtis Dutton]

I just recently had a mobo go out on me with a machine that uses the pci
mesa card. I purchased this...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09XJQHN2H?psc=1=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

along with a core i3 processor with integrated graphics.

It is working fine for me but it caused me some trouble to get working.

13th gen intel processors, with integrated graphics will only boot in UEFI
mode. From what I read about this problem it will apply to all 13th gen
motherboards. From what I read if a discrete video card is installed it
will boot non-uefi. Dumb but whateva!

I was also only able to get debian bullseye to install on this motherboard
due to driver issues.  I'm sure better debian foo with backports and such
would allow running buster... but I didn't want to mess with it.

After that I was able to compile master and run linuxcnc with no problems.

-Curt

On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 3:08 PM gene heskett  wrote:

> On 9/12/22 11:35, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > Actually about installing Windows on a used PC sold sans HD.  You
> actually can install Windows on them without buying a new license.  The OEM
> Windows license is tied to the MB serial number in the Bios and you can
> install the same Windows version as was OE and register it without buying
> anything.  (At least that is how it worked on the last HP I did that
> with.)  No more looking up a number on a sticker required.
> >
> > Todd Zuercher
> > P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> > 630 Henry Street
> > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> If buying it for our use with LinuxCNC, who in their right mind would
> want to install windows on it?
> Boggles whats left of my mind,
>
> Any windows installed in my house had better be made with glass. Or they
> will be replaced with
> glass.
>
> I've had my rounds with the people in Redmond back about NT-351, called
> everything in
> the book including pirate because the housekeeping in 351 deleted its
> main ,dll. Since
> it happened more than once, I can only believe it was a random timer so
> you had to buy
> another $400 copy of 351 to get the library back.
>
> Despite my having the license number, microcrap refused to send me the
> library, so I
> wound up fedexing the drive to the tech that set it up in the first
> place, got it back the
> next day and it only cost us around 10 thousand for loss of compensation
> cuz we were
> airing the wrong commercials. For 3 days.
>
> Me and microcrap agreed to disagree and to this day since then the
> lifetime of a windows
> machine I buy to get the hardware has been measured in hours.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>   - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] 6i25 PC spontaneous reboot

[Curtis Dutton]

I think that the problem is the motherboard. I pulled the MOBO/CPU from
another machine. Put it all back together and it is running like a champ
now.

It's always a crapshoot with these new motherboards/cpus. They seem pretty
iffy... keep trying them until one works. It's always been that way for as
long as I can remember!

Thanks!



On Tue, Aug 23, 2022 at 12:07 PM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:

> On Tue, 23 Aug 2022, Curtis Dutton wrote:
>
> > Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 11:44:54 -0400
> > From: Curtis Dutton 
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"  >
> > Subject: [Emc-users] 6i25 PC spontaneous reboot
> >
> > So I had a power outage last week and it took out the PC of my cnc router
> > when the power returned. PS died and took the MOBO with it.
> >
> > It was 7 years old so not a big deal.
> >
> > I upgraded to an MSI 320M PRO-VH with an AMD Athalon 3000G.
> >
> > I was previously running a 5i25 but this board doesn't have a PCI slot so
> > (until the adaptor comes) I pulled a 6i25 from one of my other machines.
> >
> > My setup is a 6i25 with 2 7i85S boards attached.
> >
> > All power is supplied to the 7i85S boards via a separate 5v power supply.
> > All the jumpers are set properly. They are set to standard defaults as is
> > described in the manual.
> >
> > W1 down
> > W2 down
> > W3 down
> > W4 up
> > W5 up
> > W7 down
> > W8 up
> >
> > So far so good.
> >
> > I have everything booting up and the machine starts up and it appears
> that
> > all functions work properly.
> >
> > With the machine enabled and no motion commands going it works properly.
> > However when I start jogging any of the axis the PC resets and then
> > restarts.
> >
> > The spindle works properly (VFD controlled by USB) and doesn't cause the
> > reset. IO works properly and the machine is enabled so the velocity loops
> > are active meaning that the 6i25 is functioning properly. It has sat idle
> > for hours with no reset. Once I jog it... after a few seconds it resets.
> >
> > Does anyone have any ideas about what could be occurring. I'm a bit
> stumped
> > here.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >   Curt
>
> Does it reset if power down the axis drives?
> might be a EMI/noise/grounding issue.
>
>
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
> (\__/)
> (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
>
>
>
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[Emc-users] 6i25 PC spontaneous reboot

[Curtis Dutton]

So I had a power outage last week and it took out the PC of my cnc router
when the power returned. PS died and took the MOBO with it.

It was 7 years old so not a big deal.

I upgraded to an MSI 320M PRO-VH with an AMD Athalon 3000G.

I was previously running a 5i25 but this board doesn't have a PCI slot so
(until the adaptor comes) I pulled a 6i25 from one of my other machines.

My setup is a 6i25 with 2 7i85S boards attached.

All power is supplied to the 7i85S boards via a separate 5v power supply.
All the jumpers are set properly. They are set to standard defaults as is
described in the manual.

W1 down
W2 down
W3 down
W4 up
W5 up
W7 down
W8 up

So far so good.

I have everything booting up and the machine starts up and it appears that
all functions work properly.

With the machine enabled and no motion commands going it works properly.
However when I start jogging any of the axis the PC resets and then
restarts.

The spindle works properly (VFD controlled by USB) and doesn't cause the
reset. IO works properly and the machine is enabled so the velocity loops
are active meaning that the 6i25 is functioning properly. It has sat idle
for hours with no reset. Once I jog it... after a few seconds it resets.

Does anyone have any ideas about what could be occurring. I'm a bit stumped
here.

Thanks,
   Curt

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[Emc-users] Remap toolchange - run to line wants to change through each tool

[Curtis Dutton]

  I'm running master.

I have M6 remapped in GCode running on a VMC. When I restart a program, the
machine wants to cycle through each of the M6 tool change commands in the
gcode file until picking back up on the line that I start it on.

So say I have tools 1 - 5 in a program.It performs operations first with
tool 1, then 2 then 3etc.

Somewhere at the end of the program say on tool 5 I hit escape to stop the
program (perhaps to check something). When I restart the program it will
want to change to tool 1, then tool 2, then tool 3, until it gets back to
tool 5 and then restarts where I commanded it to.

Does anyone know by chance what is going on here. If not I will investigate
and report back my findings.


Thanks,
   Curt

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Re: [Emc-users] Heidenhain IBV 610 troubles

[Curtis Dutton]

I ended up finding a good deal on a Motrona si251 interpolation unit. It
was a little bit more than the IBV but not much.

It worked on the first try. Documentation was much better and overall seems
more flexible and more compact.

-Curtis


On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 2:18 PM John Figie  wrote:

> John Figie
>
>
> I forgot to post more details about the Hedenhain TNC 151 interpolator.
> > http://machineability.com/Bridgeport_series_II.html
> >
> > On the other hand my Bridgeport series II Interact conversion which had a
> > Heidenhain TNC seemed to have some comparators and logic to do
> > interpolation and output a higher frequency AqB signal. The interpolation
> > was not very fine, in fact it is 20 steps per 360 degrees of sin. - 5
> steps
> > per 90 degrees, fairly easy to do with comparators.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > John Figie
> >
> >
> >>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Heidenhain IBV 610 troubles

[Curtis Dutton]

I have found a manual online. It is a fanuc encoder on the top of a spindle
motor.

I don't seee any trim pots inside the box. Just 5 jumpers.


1is it for 90 or 270 deg for reference.
2nd is high or low impedence input. (not sure what this does)

3-5 is interpolation amount (5x vs 10x) and output frequency settings.



On Sun, Sep 19, 2021, 12:25 PM Eric Keller  wrote:

> I don't think that's true that they have to be compliments.  There probably
> is a way to adjust the levels like I mentioned in my previous email. Is the
> manual online, or did you just get a paper copy? I wonder if it's an issue
> with the signals not being +/- with respect to ground. Is it a Heidenhein
> encoder?
> Eric Keller
> Boalsburg, Pennsylvania
>
> On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 11:50 AM Curtis Dutton  wrote:
>
> > Ok after thinking about it more, the interpolate is expecting that the
> > incoming sin/cos signals a,a* are actual inverse values. however this
> > encoder is single ended, it just has a and b signals. the a* and b*
> signals
> > are a sort of reference voltage and never change. I'll experiment with it
> > some more tomorrow
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 19, 2021, 12:55 AM Curtis Dutton  wrote:
> >
> > > It is an incremental. Magnetic sensor. Gear tooth with I think 256
> teeth.
> > > One sin/cos cycle per tooth.
> > >
> > > On Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 10:56 PM Ralph Stirling <
> > > ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > >> A lot of very high resolution, and older encoders have
> > >> sine wave gratings, which give sine and cosine waveforms
> > >> on the A and B channels.  These are connected to an
> > >> interpolator box that contains A/D converters and logic
> > >> to generate quadrature pulses.  The higher the interpolation
> > >> ratio, the lower the max velocity allowed.
> > >>
> > >> -- Ralph
> > >> 
> > >> From: Gene Heskett [ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > >> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2021 5:22 PM
> > >> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Heidenhain IBV 610 troubles
> > >>
> > >> I don't think you have an encoder, but a resolver. If you are getting
> > one
> > >> sinesoid per full turn, its a resolver.
> > >>
> > >> > Anyhow it doesn't work and I'm not sure how to troubleshoot the
> black
> > >> > box. I have the manuals and I have tried various combinations of the
> > >> > dip swithches inside.
> > >> >
> > >> > does anyone have any troubleshooting tips or stories about their use
> > >> > of an interpolater box?
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks,
> > >> >Curt
> > >> >
> > >> > ___
> > >> > Emc-users mailing list
> > >> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-usersdata=04%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C5a5b014bf3fc4481176208d97b03a93b%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C1%7C637676077932698528%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000sdata=sowEIC7aWNESysLAlCjxOMk84Inwx9pFjz4IRVk6vIo%3Dreserved=0
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > >> --
> > >> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > >>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > >> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > >> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable.
> > >>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> > >> Genes Web page <
> > >>
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgeneslinuxbox.net%3A6309%2Fgenedata=04%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C5a5b014bf3fc4481176208d97b03a93b%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C1%7C637676077932698528%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000sdata=HxeTFPS47gukrRBopVJJ939Wg4sEwHPPRremv092Uy0%3Dreserved=0
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
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> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >>
> > >
> >
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Re: [Emc-users] Heidenhain IBV 610 troubles

[Curtis Dutton]

Ok after thinking about it more, the interpolate is expecting that the
incoming sin/cos signals a,a* are actual inverse values. however this
encoder is single ended, it just has a and b signals. the a* and b* signals
are a sort of reference voltage and never change. I'll experiment with it
some more tomorrow


On Sun, Sep 19, 2021, 12:55 AM Curtis Dutton  wrote:

> It is an incremental. Magnetic sensor. Gear tooth with I think 256 teeth.
> One sin/cos cycle per tooth.
>
> On Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 10:56 PM Ralph Stirling <
> ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu> wrote:
>
>> A lot of very high resolution, and older encoders have
>> sine wave gratings, which give sine and cosine waveforms
>> on the A and B channels.  These are connected to an
>> interpolator box that contains A/D converters and logic
>> to generate quadrature pulses.  The higher the interpolation
>> ratio, the lower the max velocity allowed.
>>
>> -- Ralph
>> 
>> From: Gene Heskett [ghesk...@shentel.net]
>> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2021 5:22 PM
>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Heidenhain IBV 610 troubles
>>
>> I don't think you have an encoder, but a resolver. If you are getting one
>> sinesoid per full turn, its a resolver.
>>
>> > Anyhow it doesn't work and I'm not sure how to troubleshoot the black
>> > box. I have the manuals and I have tried various combinations of the
>> > dip swithches inside.
>> >
>> > does anyone have any troubleshooting tips or stories about their use
>> > of an interpolater box?
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >Curt
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Emc-users mailing list
>> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> >
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-usersdata=04%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C5a5b014bf3fc4481176208d97b03a93b%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C1%7C637676077932698528%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000sdata=sowEIC7aWNESysLAlCjxOMk84Inwx9pFjz4IRVk6vIo%3Dreserved=0
>>
>>
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> --
>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>>  - Louis D. Brandeis
>> Genes Web page <
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgeneslinuxbox.net%3A6309%2Fgenedata=04%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C5a5b014bf3fc4481176208d97b03a93b%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C1%7C637676077932698528%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000sdata=HxeTFPS47gukrRBopVJJ939Wg4sEwHPPRremv092Uy0%3Dreserved=0
>> >
>>
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Heidenhain IBV 610 troubles

[Curtis Dutton]

It is an incremental. Magnetic sensor. Gear tooth with I think 256 teeth.
One sin/cos cycle per tooth.

On Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 10:56 PM Ralph Stirling 
wrote:

> A lot of very high resolution, and older encoders have
> sine wave gratings, which give sine and cosine waveforms
> on the A and B channels.  These are connected to an
> interpolator box that contains A/D converters and logic
> to generate quadrature pulses.  The higher the interpolation
> ratio, the lower the max velocity allowed.
>
> -- Ralph
> 
> From: Gene Heskett [ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2021 5:22 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Heidenhain IBV 610 troubles
>
> I don't think you have an encoder, but a resolver. If you are getting one
> sinesoid per full turn, its a resolver.
>
> > Anyhow it doesn't work and I'm not sure how to troubleshoot the black
> > box. I have the manuals and I have tried various combinations of the
> > dip swithches inside.
> >
> > does anyone have any troubleshooting tips or stories about their use
> > of an interpolater box?
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >Curt
> >
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> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-usersdata=04%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C5a5b014bf3fc4481176208d97b03a93b%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C1%7C637676077932698528%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000sdata=sowEIC7aWNESysLAlCjxOMk84Inwx9pFjz4IRVk6vIo%3Dreserved=0
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>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page <
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> >
>
>
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[Emc-users] Heidenhain IBV 610 troubles

[Curtis Dutton]

So I have a fanuc spindle motor with an MZ hall effect encoder on it.

I'm attempting to interface that via an IBV 610 to a quadrature encoder.

I have no experience with these and I'm trying to figure out what is going
wrong.

The encoder runs on 5v and has A,A* and B,B* signals.

the a*,b* pins output a refernace voltage of 2.5v. The a and B pins vary
sinusoidally from 2.2v to 2.8 v. If you measure across a to a* (or b to b*)
you get -.3v to .3v.

I think that this is what is called a 1vpp signal. (am I wrong?)

Anyhow I hooked up all of the signals from encoder to ibv box through to
the quadrature encoder input. I have double checked all pins, power is
being delivered to everything and the sinusiod signals are getting back to
the interpolate box.

Anyhow it doesn't work and I'm not sure how to troubleshoot the black box.
I have the manuals and I have tried various combinations of the dip
swithches inside.

does anyone have any troubleshooting tips or stories about their use of an
interpolater box?


Thanks,
   Curt

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[Emc-users] Mesa 8i20 - braking resistor sharing

[Curtis Dutton]

Is it possible to share a braking resistor among multiple 8i20 drives? 3
identical motors.


Thanks,
   Curtis

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Re: [Emc-users] jerk control

[Curtis Dutton]

I'm not sure about all this yet, brainstorming here...

After looking at TinyG code for handling jerk limitation in the joint
control it appears that they are using the forward physics equations and
numerically integrating to avoid violations.

Since numerical integration needs to be used for jerk equations (as well as
snap crackle and pop...)  The forward kinematic equations will need to be
fed into the integrator for non trivial kinematics.

The integrator should be pluggable as well. We should find an open source
library for this as numerical integration methods are always advancing and
high performance integration is not easy to implement.





On Sun, Aug 29, 2021 at 11:55 AM Andy Pugh  wrote:

>
>
> > On 29 Aug 2021, at 11:40, Alexander Brock 
> wrote:
> >
> > The idea can be implemented in C and for simple cases like 1D funktions
> > it should be fairly straight-forward.
>
> My point is that the kinematics modules already exist, and  not all of
> them are under our control. Various users’ machines are out there with
> their own custom kinematics.
> Also, AFAIK if they are kernel modules then they have to be written in C.
>
> Hence my suggestion of calling the kinematics function repeatedly to
> perform simple numerical differentiation.
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] jerk control

[Curtis Dutton]

That thread leads to this. https://githubhelp.com/pantor/ruckig

Pretty interdasting!

On Fri, Aug 27, 2021 at 12:36 PM Andy Pugh  wrote:

>
> >> It will require jerk limiting to really get the value out of the
> machine.
>
> There is a jerk-limiting component in the forum
>
>
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/47-hal-examples/43401-hal-s-curve-component-for-download-loadrt-dofs-x
>
> It sacrifices path accuracy for jerk limitation (or so I assume) but would
> allow folk to see what difference it makes.
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] jerk control

[Curtis Dutton]

So for an abort I think would be still following the proscribed machine
path in a coordinated fashion but stop as fast as possible within
constraints. Sort of like dragging feed override to 0 as quickly as
possible without violating constraints.

For an e-stop it will be an uncoordinated stop. Each joint will halt as
quickly as possible independently while still obeying joint constraints.

I think that jerk limit will apply for all joint and cartesian space.

On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 4:54 AM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 at 04:40, Chris Albertson 
> wrote:
>
> > Actually for a machine tool, why not run the
> > simulation off-line and use as much time and computer power as it takes.
>
> Feed-override?
>
> Do you allow infinite jerk on abort? You might think that is an easy
> question, except that continuous jog is implemented as a move to the
> limit that is aborted on key release.
>
> And, do we need to jerk-limit in joint space or cartesian space, or both?
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] jerk control

[Curtis Dutton]

So for feed override. I think just having the planner generate a blended
path using the "max' override speed. thus guaranteeing that no constraints
could be violated for any range of the feed override.

Otherwise you would need to regenerate  the path based upon override speed
as it changes thus the path would change as well (around blend points).

I think that could be quite bad especially if your blending tolerances were
set large (say for fast roughing passes). You boost up max override and all
of a sudden your tool is running larger corners than it was prior and you
break a tool. Naturally leading an operator to think "whoops too fast" when
it may not have been the speed induced load that broke the toool but too
much sudden overstepping.

 I think it would be prefered that the path remains identical at any feed
speed.

On Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 7:12 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 at 21:27, andrew beck 
> wrote:
> >
> > Just had a look at tiny g looks great.
>
> I did try to implement a zero look-ahead finite jerk planner for laser
> rastering. It was interesting, and I learned a bit.
>
> It is easier the less general you make it.
>
> Ideally LinuxCNC would have a 9-axis finite-jerk planner that handled
> arbitrary kinematics with feed-override control.
>
> Tiny-G is a 3-axis (I think) planner with trivial kinematics and no
> feed override (AFAIK).
>
> At the moment I would be happy just to see LinuxCNC handle more than
> 3-axis blending. It's in Tormach.
>
> I have a feeling that kinematics is not a problem in most cases, the
> kins functions run fast enough to be used for finite-difference
> differentiation / numerical integration.
> I am not sure about the more computationally intensive ones, such as
> genserkins. (I think that is fast forwards, slow inverse)
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] jerk control

[Curtis Dutton]

The goal is allow both accuracy and speed. However there is a tradeoff
between those two just as there is now.

 During any move all vel, acc, jerk values must be coordinated to follow a
given path. For a coordinated move any limiting constraints will limit the
other related joints to prevent violations.


To perform multiple move through a sequence of lines the motion planner has
to blend moves and cut corners. The blend is also shaped to avoid violating
any limits but go as fast as possible. The distance the corner can be cut
by will be user specified. G64 just like now.

Ultimatly the gcode program combined with your machine and its capabilities
are still going to limit the upper feed rates that can be accomplished.

With jerk limiting the max acceleration values for any given machine will
be able to be increased while still having less following error. This
should lead to decreased cycle times for any given g-code program.




On Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 8:15 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

> This jerk control raises some questions for me.  They probably have simple
> answers rather than as complex as jerk control but perhaps it's related.
>
> Each axis has a MAX_ACCELERATION value.  Simple math says that if X and Y
> are moving at an identical velocity then the path of the tool is 45
> degrees.
>
> I suspect that the MAX_ACCELERATION is exactly that: maximum.  If we want
> that 45 degree line to remain straight then both axis have to accelerate at
> the same rate and end up at the same velocity at the same time so the
> acceleration that’s used is the lowest of the MAX_ACCELERATION value?
>
> From a feed rate perspective we want to get up to the target feed as
> quickly as possible since chip load, tool rubbing etc. can have adverse
> effects if the speed is too slow?
>
> By the same token the speed along that 45 degree path is the F parameter
> so each axis speed isn't the F value but the amount required to create the
> speed on that path?
>
> Finally if the combination of acceleration and distance is such that the F
> parameter isn't reached before it's time to decelerate then the tool
> reaches 0 before ever hitting the requested speed?
>
> This is all for a simple move that starts and stops.  And clearly would
> cause a jerk like motion but it's precise from point A to point B.  As I
> understand the jerk side of things the requirement is to look ahead at the
> next move and only accelerate or decelerate as required to reach the new
> velocity for each axis and change the rate of acceleration within that
> envelope.
>
> But now the two axis are no longer following the target path right?
>  There is one that has to slow down to half the speed while the other
> accelerates up to twice the speed (for example).  The path followed now is
> more complex?  And which acceleration is used and is it changed as the path
> is followed?
>
> What's the goal?  To traverse the path as accurately as possible or to
> reduce the shaking from sudden speed changes (the jerk)?
>
> Mostly just confused.
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Curtis Dutton [mailto:curtd...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: August-22-21 11:48 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] jerk control
> >
> > I have a desire to implement this.
> >
> >  My business is in need of another cnc router and I will be building as
> > high speed of a machine as I can afford. It is going to be a dual table
> but
> > a horizontal spindle. 1m x 1m working envelope. I plan on using linear
> > motors.
> >
> > It will require jerk limiting to really get the value out of the machine.
> >
> > I have been working on bits and pieces in my spare time but I have very
> > little time right now.
> >
> >
> > My main approach so far is
> >
> >
> >  The realtime motion component will be enhanced so as to interpolate
> nurbs
> > curves. Those curves need be in a specific form of parameterization.
> (coord
> > length parameterized)
> >
> >
> > The other part is in user space and it is the hard part. To perform
> > blending of line segments it converts segments to nurbs curves, and
> blends
> > them together by fitting a segment of a clothoid (euler spirals) in
> between
> > them. It must do all of this while fitting within all of the velocity,
> > accel, jerk and limit constraints. Then it reparameterizes these curves
> for
> > consumption by the motion component.
> >
> > This is essentially plotting a reasonable driving path on an N
> dimensional
> > race track.
> >
> >  From some of the papers that I have read it looks like it will involve
> > numer

Re: [Emc-users] jerk control

[Curtis Dutton]

I have a desire to implement this.

 My business is in need of another cnc router and I will be building as
high speed of a machine as I can afford. It is going to be a dual table but
a horizontal spindle. 1m x 1m working envelope. I plan on using linear
motors.

It will require jerk limiting to really get the value out of the machine.

I have been working on bits and pieces in my spare time but I have very
little time right now.


My main approach so far is


 The realtime motion component will be enhanced so as to interpolate nurbs
curves. Those curves need be in a specific form of parameterization. (coord
length parameterized)


The other part is in user space and it is the hard part. To perform
blending of line segments it converts segments to nurbs curves, and blends
them together by fitting a segment of a clothoid (euler spirals) in between
them. It must do all of this while fitting within all of the velocity,
accel, jerk and limit constraints. Then it reparameterizes these curves for
consumption by the motion component.

This is essentially plotting a reasonable driving path on an N dimensional
race track.

 From some of the papers that I have read it looks like it will involve
numerical integration and/or linear programming. Adding jerk equations into
standard physics makes it very much harder to solve. Closed form equations
don't really seem to exist. (If you have experience with this I could
sorely use pointers, links, papers)


Ultimately this is a very difficult task. Building a stripped down version
of a jerk controlled motion planner is what many people have done to earn a
PHD.


I would be happy to join up with anyone else that is interested in working
on this. Even ideas, papers, demos is very helpful. Timeline for this...
sadly a few years at best before completion.


Thanks,
Curt

On Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 10:10 PM andrew beck  wrote:

> Here is the text from your link sam
>
>
> Ramped velocity in this case just means constant acceleration over the
> whole segment. This is less optimal than a trapezoidal velocity profile,
> since the acceleration is not maximized. However, if the segment is short
> enough, there isn’t enough time to accelerate much before we hit the next
> segment. Recall the short line segments from the previous example. Since
> they’re lines, there’s no cornering acceleration, so we’re free to
> accelerate up to the requested speed. However, if this line is between two
> arcs, then it will have to quickly decelerate again to be within the
> maximum speed of the next segment. This means that we have a spike of
> acceleration, then a spike of deceleration, causing a large jerk, for very
> little performance gain. This setting is a way to eliminate this jerk for
> short segments.
>
> Basically, if a segment will complete in less time than 1 /
> ARC_BLEND_RAMP_FREQ, we don’t bother with a trapezoidal velocity profile on
> that segment, and use constant acceleration. (Setting ARC_BLEND_RAMP_FREQ =
> 1000 is equivalent to always using trapezoidal acceleration, if the servo
> loop is 1kHz).
>
> You can characterize the worst-case loss of performance by comparing the
> velocity that a trapezoidal profile reaches vs. the ramp:
>
> # v_ripple = a_max / (4.0 * f) # where: # v_ripple = average velocity
> "loss" due to ramping # a_max = max axis acceleration # f = cutoff
> frequency from INI
>
> For the aforementioned machine, the ripple for a 20Hz cutoff frequency is
> 100 / (4 * 20) = 1.25 IPS. This seems high, but keep in mind that it is
> only a worst-case estimate. In reality , the trapezoidal motion profile is
> limited by other factors, such as normal acceleration or requested
> velocity, and so the actual performance loss should be much smaller.
> Increasing the cutoff frequency can squeeze out more performance, but make
> the motion rougher due to acceleration discontinuities. A value in the
> range 20Hz to 200Hz should be reasonable to start.
>
> Finally, no amount of tweaking will speed up a toolpath with lots of small,
> tight corners, since you’re limited by cornering acceleration.
>
> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 2:06 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
>
> > This is what we're talking about right?
> > Ramping acceleration?
> > https://www.mmsonline.com/articles/understanding-jerk-control
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Feral Engineer [mailto:theferalengin...@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: August-17-21 6:46 PM
> > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] jerk control
> > >
> > > I'm curious what the current level of block lookahead is on lcnc
> compared
> > > to commercial controls. Anyone know the amount of data buffering that
> it
> > > can handle?
> > >
> > > Phil T.
> > > The Feral Engineer
> > >
> > > Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
> > > www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer
> > >
> > > Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
> > > www.patreon.com/theferalengineer
> > >
> 

Re: [Emc-users] jerk control

[Curtis Dutton]

Are you using any G64 P- Q- path blending?

On Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 11:19 PM andrew beck  wrote:

> hey guys
>
> I am sitting here watching my cnc mill atm its shaking quite a bit
> acceleration is 600mm/sec2  which is not that high i think.  compared to
> every other cnc mill i have used with a commercial controller.  they have
> jerk control and work much better.  so looking forward to when we get jerk
> control here on linuxcnc!
>
> but in the mean time i need a poor mans jerk control and thinking of a
> limit on the pid output to chop down the initial acceleration for the first
> moment in time just so little moves don't shake it to death
>
> andy mentioned that I could maybe use a limit component to limit the
> initial acceleration for the first tiny moment in time to cut down on the
> vibrations.
>
> how do you guys think that could work?
>
> Regards
>
> Andrew
>
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Re: [Emc-users] The Code Of Conduct Fait Accompli

[Curtis Dutton]

I find it curious that we have a COC followed up by the "master" question
in short succession. Am I mistaken that these events as somehow related?
Just asking for a friend.

I cannot think of a recent time that I have read an email on emcdev or
emcusers that I thought to myself "something must be done about this" nor
can I think of a time in the distant past where "things are getting out of
hand here." Indeed I cannot think of a time where I found myself thinking
"I don't think that person should have been banned."

I would much prefer that admins be free
 to censure behavior based upon their own judgment. From what I can
remember each of our admins have exercised their judgment quite well. They
have performed their duties in general good faith without any proscribed
policy.

When we formalize commom sense rules it weakens faithful authoriy and
provides an envelope within which corrupt authority can operate. I fear
that policy may allow us to hide behind words, twist definitions and
ultimately abuse power. I would strongly suggest that we make that small
U-turn now and continue on the very productive path that we were previously
following.







On Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 8:22 AM Mark  wrote:

> You really should be say it hasn't yet.
>
> Mark
>
> On 7/23/21 11:52 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > Since you replied to my post: the topic is closed for me, I accept the
> > CoC and move on, it doesn't affect my ability to be part of the
> > LinuxCNC community nor my ability to share my work here and ask
> > questions.
> >
> > Kind regards.
> >
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Emergeny stop, and maybe normal stop

[Curtis Dutton]

I think the main thing about estop is that

A. When hitting E-Stop all movement stops ASAP.
B. There is no chance things start moving again after the E-stop button is
reset.
 Typically a separate "start" button must be pressed before things may
start again.

I recommend that these circuits be implemented in hardware. see therac-25
for how things could go wrong. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25


I have seen machines that leave drives powered during estop but they have
an enable loop that is part of the "hardware" estop loop. (the more modern
machines tend to follow this pattern.) I have seen machines that completely
cut power to all drives as part of the estop loop. It is up to you to
engineer the appropriate way of handling this.

I make these decisions by imagining that if my arm were caught in a
particular machine  which way of doing it would result in less injury.
Big machines with lots of momentum would probably cause less harm with
controlled powered stopping... cutting power on those drives may result in
more harm. In a home machine with sketchy Chinese drives... cutting all
power might be ultimately safer it all depnds.

My father lost a hand in the 70's because he reached into a machine that
did not follow this e-stop protocol. It is serious business even for small
machines. Please take it seriously especially if people other than
yourself will be operating them.

-Curt




On Sun, Aug 1, 2021, 3:47 PM Feral Engineer 
wrote:

> With safety relays, they require an external reset after being released.
> Every machine tool I've been on in the last 20 years operates in this
> fashion.
>
> Release estop
> Press "power on" or "drive enable" button to reset the pilz
>
> Phil T.
> The Feral Engineer
>
> Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
> www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer
>
> Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
> www.patreon.com/theferalengineer
>
> On Sun, Aug 1, 2021, 3:14 PM Nicklas SB Karlsson  wrote:
>
> > Anyone have any experience or knowledge with emergency stop circuit?
> >
> >
> > Connected a special safety relay breaking the 24 volt power supply
> > driving the relays today. Then emergency stop have been pushed it have
> > to be reset before relay is switched on again.
> >
> >
> > Nicklas Karlsson
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Emc-users] Advice on Tuning Servo System

[Curtis Dutton]

I'm not familiar with the Pico interface. Basee upon the docs it looks to
be a velocity mode stepgen.

I have a mesa velocity mode Stephen to servo system on my router.

This site was helpful to me getting this set up.
https://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tuning/servo.html.

If I recall I had to tune the servos drives themselves and the velocity
control pid loops "simultaneously". Which in reality went somethijg like
this.

1. in servo drive use autotuning. this gets reasonable decent tuning in the
drive.

2. get the linuxcnc velocity pid tuning to the point where I could get
homing working properly.

3. make your Ferror values temporarily large.

3. follow the advice from the link above open up haltune and tune your
velocity loops. keep tuning as long as the results keep improving. (not
looking for perfect just improvement)

4. go back into your servo drives. modify the parameters for them...again
looking for improvements. halscope is your friend here too. halscope is
tough to learn how to use at first but important.

5. go back to step 3. repeat step 3 and 4 until things tighten up to your
liking.

6. readjust your homing setup and limits...

7. profit? :-)

-Curt

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 9:45 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Wednesday 30 June 2021 14:47:57 Les Newell wrote:
>
> > On 30/06/2021 12:52, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > This is good to know Les, thank you. But for those who don't know
> > > how to achieve that, a 1 axis example would be a huge help.
> >
> > In your INI file, there are two places where you can set the MIN_LIMIT
> > and MAX_LIMIT (joint and axis). Just make sure you hit the axis limit
> > before the joint limit. The difference does not need to be much.*
> > *
> Re-reading that, linuxcnc will not even start if they don't match
> exactly. Unless that has been fixed in the month since I last played
> with it. I will dbl check that tomorrow but not tonight, its pretty
> noisy out at 21:30 here in north central WV. I've already had one
> failure of an hour and 45 minutes and it hasn't done me a lot of good to
> have the bios restart, due to my standby's start time of just over 5
> seconds, thats not enough time to do a cold reboot so it crashes until I
> go out and do a full powerdown from each machines switch.  And thats the
> condition of the three dell 7010's at the moment. :(
>
> Thanks Les. To becontinued...
> >
> > > In making a servo for axis A/B/C in a stepper machine, there is a
> > > huge differential in how it runs unhomed, and how it runs after
> > > homed. Being a full rotation device, it has no limits set.
> >
> > In that case you won't be using soft limits, so it makes no
> > difference.
> >
> > Les
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Best Mesa Thermistor Reading Combo

[Curtis Dutton]

Armed with an infrared thermometer and lincurve sounds like I can get a
nice solution. It doesn't have to be very accurate...just "stop before the
motor melts". Which being that I"m cutting teensy pieces of aluminum, will
probably never happen. But I tend to need guard rails sometimes!

On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 2:45 PM Sebastian Kuzminsky 
wrote:

> I'm the author of the thermistor component, and it does not work as well as
> I had hoped. I've switched to using lincurve for the thermistors on my
> linuxcnc 3d printer.
>
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 12:16 andy pugh  wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 at 18:28, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:
> >
> > > The resistance vs temperature is quite nonlinear so you would probably
> > need to
> > > feed the analog value to lincurve to linearize the temperature readout
> >
> > Or http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man1/thermistor.1.html
> >
> > (lincurve might actually be better)
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
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[Emc-users] Best Mesa Thermistor Reading Combo

[Curtis Dutton]

I'm upgrading the old spindle motor for my Fadal VMC 15 rebuild project. I
found a new old stock 11 KW 1RPM Fadal spindle motor that I'll be
installing in it's stead. A06B-1446-B100#0102.

It has an MZi encoder and a thermistor in the motor. I would like to
integrate temperature monitoring. I'm using all mesa hardware.

Does anyone have a good recommendation as to a nice clean "DIN" mountable
way to interface the thermistor to my control? The manual says 30 to 90
KOhm at 20 to 30 deg Celsiuis.

I don't know if they increase resistance with temp or decrease. Hopefully
someone out there has some fanuc motor experience.

Thanks,
  Curt

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[Emc-users] Fiber laser power requirements - any experience out there?

[Curtis Dutton]

I have an ongoing job engraving stainless steel plaques that are at most
4.5" square. Currently we are doing them in the CNC router. Very simple
markings just digits and letters. Engraved to about a depth of 10 to 15
thousands of an inch with a spot drill.

This is becoming a fairly regular job and I'm thinking about building a
dedicated machine for it. I could build a very little simple milling type
machine but I'd like to consider a fiber laser for doing it.

It looks like there are some machines that could perform the engraving but
I'm not sure what sort of wattage level would be appropriate. Obviously the
more power, the faster it can engrave but how much would be adequate and
how much power would be overkill.

Does anyone have any resource or recommendations about fiber lasers? I use
a CO2 laser daily for engraving wood, but I have never been around a fiber
laser.


Thanks,
   Curt

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Re: [Emc-users] CANopen on LinuxCNC

[Curtis Dutton]

This sounds like the ethercat driver already does most of what you are
discussing. It would be a good place to start if you planned on building
something.


On Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:24 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

> > From: Nicklas SB Karlsson [mailto:nk@nksb.online]
> >
> > Den 2021-01-23 kl. 01:31, skrev John Dammeyer:
> > >> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > >> On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 23:16, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> And I take it from your answer that this sort of driver at this
> point in time does not exist.
> > >> Not as far as I know, but it might be a fairly simple thing to create.
> > >> It need to create HAL pins then gather the data from wherever, and put
> > >> it on the HAL pins.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > > That's probably more of a patchy method.
> > >
> > > CANopen has a number of states and needs some sort of master to
> co-ordinate the state changes.
> > > INIT, PRE-OPERATIONAL and OPERATIONAL are the 3 main ones.  There's
> also an ERROR and STOPPING etc.
> >
> > If I remember correct CANopen devices start in pre-operational mode, a
> > SYNC is usually sent periodically and just because of this.
>
> The start with a RESET status message.  Then PRE-OP.  The SYNC is not
> needed or required.  The transition to OPERATIONAL happens when the NMT
> master decides it's ready for that.
>
> >
> >
> > Once devices are configured data in the PDOs need to be mapped in hal
> > and this require some more driver support.
> >
> >
> > It is probably also useful with SDO communication which is usually used
> > to configure devices. Configuration may equally well may be done by
> > external tool if CiA309-3 gateway is implemented, protocol is text but
> > graphical user interface may communicate using it have, have a simple
> > one currently hardcoded entries.
>
> I disagree.
>
> The full CANopen spec is designed to be infinitely configurable making
> much of it very complicated.  Dynamic configuration of devices on power up,
> although possible isn't required for a fixed hardware product that doesn't
> change.  This adds complexity.
>
> Once I finish my mill cabinet upgrade and a few other projects I do intend
> on getting back to my CANopen Lite project which includes an application
> for working with CANopen messages.
>
> Things were going really well until I ran into the issue that the Lazarus
> sockets library did not support SocketCAN the way that the C and Python
> libraries do.  Which means I have to upgrade sockets.pp first.  And that's
> where I stopped and restarted other unfinished projects.
>
> The attached screen shots show however that it did work with the Lawicel
> CANUSB.  This software is written with the "Write Once" "Compile anywhere"
> model and therefore has been tested and runs on WIN-7, WIN-10, Raspberry
> Pi3B, BeagleBone Black and LinuxCNC.
>
> CANopen Lite is designed to work as a simpler version of CANopen that
> doesn't have all the bells and whistles that a full CANopen implementation
> might.  However it has been tested with COTS CANopen devices like displays,
> battery chargers, and CANopen based servo motors.
>
> In addition to the desktop application there will be a number of different
> CANopen device samples that demonstrate how to create say a display module,
> relay module or I/O module etc.  Maybe even a motor or two.
>
> Mapping HAL PINs into Object Dictionary locations is the easiest way to
> deal LinuxCNC.  A readable configuration file in the same way that the HAL
> file is read on start-up is one way to populate the object dictionary with
> the HAL PINs that someone will want made visible on the CAN bus.  It will
> all depend on how access to the PINs is granted at the core program level.
>
> Anyway, it's a work in progress.  Be a few months before I can get back to
> it and I really want access to Raspberry Pi HAT MCP2515 CAN devices and the
> internal CAN devices in a Beaglebone Black.  And for that, there's some low
> level OS library work required.
>
> John Dammeyer
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC 2.8.0 is released

[Curtis Dutton]

Andy thanks so much! and thanks again!
I'm very happy to see this beast released!

Linuxcnc is truly a priceless system and I am excited to see where it goes
next.

-Curt


On Wed, Sep 9, 2020, 5:50 PM Dave Matthews  wrote:

> Thank you for all the work that went into this.  I am a retired
> programmer and project manager.  That many people working on that much
> code is a huge achievement.
>
> Dave
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 7:31 PM andy pugh  wrote:
> >
> > I am pleased (and a little relieved) to announce the release of LinuxCNC
> v2.8.0
> >
> > This release has been a long time in development. The main new
> > feature, the separation of joints (actuators) and (cartesian) axes has
> > been in development since around 2010.
> >
> > This is one of the biggest updates to LinuxCNC ever. The changelog can
> > be viewed here:
> > https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/2.8/debian/changelog
> >
> > Highlights include:
> >
> > * Joints-axes separation - mainly obvious as much better support for
> > gantries and their homing but also for robots and any other
> > non-cartesian system
> > * Reverse-run - negative feed-overide will now reverse along the
> > previous path - introduced for wire spark eroders, but I am sure you
> > will find other uses.
> > * Multiple spindle support - up to 9 spindles
> > * Tool table expanded to 1000 tools
> > * Packages available for Raspberry Pi 4.
> > * External offsets and Extra (not controlled by G-code) joints. -
> > G-code is not the only way to move things.
> > * QTvcp: New QT-based VCP framework
> > * QTdragon, QTlathe, QTtouchy, QTscreen - new GUIs based on QTVP
> > * Silverdragon: New gscreen based GUI
> > * plasmac: New full-featured Plasma cutter controller - with
> > integrated THC and a whole lot more.
> > * Massively expanded and improved Spanish translations of
> > documentation and manpages
> > * New Chinese translation of the "入门" (Getting Started) documentation.
> >
> > Installable packages are available for Ubuntu Precise and Debians
> > Wheezy, Stretch, Jessie and Buster (including Raspbian). Support for
> > Ubuntu Lucid has ended.
> > At the moment most supported platforms only work with the preempt-rt
> kernels.
> > There is an experimental 64-bit RTAI kernel for those needing it. We
> > hope to mainline this soon, but help would be appreciated.
> >
> > More details of how to update here:
> > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/getting-started/updating-linuxcnc.html
> >
> > For new installations, or to test-run the new version and OS on your
> > existing hardware without committing to an OS upgrade use the ISO
> > images and process described here:
> > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html
> >
> >
> > Many thanks to the following contributors, and to anyone else who has
> > submitted work or code to the project.
> > Alec Ari
> > Alexander Brock
> > Alex Joni
> > Alex Wigen
> > Al Smart
> > Andrea Ricchi
> > Andrew Kyrychenko
> > andypugh
> > Anthony Barney
> > Anton Midyukov
> > ascurtis
> > Balestrino
> > bebro
> > Bence Kovacs
> > Benjamin Brockhaus
> > Benjamin Weis
> > Bernhard M. Wiedemann
> > Bertho Stultiens
> > blazini36
> > Boris Skegin
> > Brian Hicks
> > cascade256
> > Chris Edwards
> > Chris Morley
> > Chris Radek
> > Colten Edwards
> > Curtis Dutton
> > Daniel Rogge
> > david
> > David Shore
> > Dewey Garrett
> > Eduard Kachur
> > Edward Tomasz Napierala
> > Ernesto Lo Valvo
> > Florian Kerle
> > Gergely Nagymate
> > Hannah Lau
> > Håvard Flaget Aasen
> > itai
> > itaib
> > James Waples
> > Jan Mrázek
> > jasen
> > Jeff Epler
> > Jim Craig
> > Jin
> > j.m. garcia
> > Joe Hildreth
> > John
> > John Kasunich
> > John Morris
> > John Thornton
> > Jon Elson
> > Kim Kirwan
> > Kurt Jacobson
> > Lars Bensmann
> > Les Newell
> > loopsun
> > Lorenz Neureuter
> > Lubomir Rintel
> > Luke Peterson
> > Mark Andrew Gerads
> > Markus
> > Mateusz Konieczny
> > Matsche
> > Michael Geszkiewicz
> > Michael Haberler
> > Mick
> > Moses McKnight
> > MrFouFou
> > Nicola Quargentan
> > Norbert Schechner
> > Oleg Pryadko
> > peter wallace
> > Phillip A Carter
> > Phillip Carter
> > pippin88
> > Rene Hopf
> > Rick M
> > Robert W.

Re: [Emc-users] SSD reliability

[Curtis Dutton]

I use SSD's in everything. I have had 1 fail. It was an A-DATA brand.



I have an intel somewhere that is OK and majority Samsung drives, both M2
format and SATA. I have deployed quite a few of them for Customers in
desktops and servers. Probably a total of 30 or so. No failures yet
(Fingers crossed!)


-Curt

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 1:38 PM Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 07/03/2020 11:01 AM, Sam Sokolik wrote:
> > I can't remember ever having an issue with any ssd I have used.  My
> laptop
> > which currently has a Samsung SSD 860 EVO M.2 1TB
> >
> > Power_On_Hours = 11845
> >
> >
> My desktop SSD reports 57388 power-on hours.
>
> Jon
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Rebuild Quistions

[Curtis Dutton]

I want to thank everyone for your advice and encouragement on replacing my
5c lathe spindle bearings.

I was able to replace the bearings in the spindle. The spindle "locknut"
was pressed on instead of threaded on. I had to build an aluminum collar
with steel dowel pins that engaged on the bearing spacers (which had holes
for this purpose) to press it apart.  I could tell that coolant had entered
the bearing housing by getting around the front labyrinth seal and is
ultimately what had ruined the front bearing.

Other than that I had to purchase a parts washer and cleaned the heck out
of everything. I found a set screw hole on the front seal and have
installed an air fitting in its place for air purge. That should reduce the
chances of that type of failure occurring again.

Packed the bearings with "high speed synthetic bearing grease." With a
little warming all bearings installed smoothly like in the youtube video.
It was a very nice to have that video as a reference and really helped with
reassembly.

I ran it in over a period of 2 days. Incrementally increasing RPMS and
watching temperatures, keeping the spindle body itself under ~105
fahrenheit or comfortable to touch with hands, waiting for temperature to
drop, then increasing speed by about 250 rpm. Now it will run cool at
3000rpm for an hour or so, getting up to about 90 degrees. I'm not sure
what my rpm upper limit should be but that seems fairly fast.

Obviously time will really tell but it has continued to run very smooth and
quiet. After a test cut last night the parts are actually round now. Went
from around .0005" out of round to at most .5" out of round and surface
finish seems much improved.


Thanks again all!

-Curtis

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 7:25 PM Curtis Dutton  wrote:

> Agreed. We will do the best we can and break in very slowly. I'll read up
> on break in procedures and we have temp probes that we can use to watch it.
>
> Thanks all for the info!
>
> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 3:20 PM Thaddeus Waldner 
> wrote:
>
>> I’ll chime in on the importance of a clean environment. They usually spec
>> a ultra high purity grease for lubricant.
>>
>> They also usually have a fairly specific break-in routine. I.e a pair of
>> temperature probes, one near each bearing, then run the spindle, starting
>> at a slow speed. Gradually increase The speed to max over several hours,
>> all the while keeping an eye on the temps.
>>
>> Definitely *don’t* spin it up right away to “see how it runs.”
>>
>> > On May 27, 2020, at 1:32 PM, Curtis Dutton  wrote:
>> >
>> > Yes that youtube video seems to be very helpful. I've been watching it
>> for
>> > the last few days.
>> >
>> > Well we will give it a try then and see how it pans out.
>> >
>> > Thanks all
>> >
>> >> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 2:03 PM Leonardo Marsaglia <
>> ldmarsag...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I've never took apart the ones in the Mazak (Wich I asked for quotation
>> >> once)but I disassembled other lathes that were similar and it's not
>> that
>> >> much of a pain. Surely you must make some tooling sometimes to get
>> things
>> >> done right but nothing else.
>> >>
>> >> 5.000 to 7.000 sounds about what they would charge for it. From what I
>> >> remember the tricky part is to guarantee a free dust and grit assembly.
>> >> They claimed to have a dust controlled environment much like a
>> >> semiconductor factory but I suspect part of that is marketing.
>> >>
>> >> One common approach for big lathes is two double row roller bearings
>> with a
>> >> thrust bearing for the axial load.
>> >>
>> >> Leonardo Marsaglia
>> >>
>> >> El mié., 27 may. 2020 14:51, Jon Elson 
>> escribió:
>> >>
>> >>> On 05/27/2020 12:18 PM, Curtis Dutton wrote:
>> >>>> So after finishing the retrofit of the old Miyano gang lathe the
>> >> spindle
>> >>>> bearings are shot. You can grab the spindle nose and push it side to
>> >> side
>> >>>> about .0005" to .001". The cut quality is also fairly bad. Just
>> >> cutting a
>> >>>> spring pass on an aluminum bar shows a lot of chatter like marks.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I can also measure a .0005" to .001"  axial play by pushing on the
>> face
>> >>> or
>> >>>> the collet closer of the spindle. Not to mention there is roughness
>> and
>> >>>> fairly loud bearing 

Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Rebuild Quistions

[Curtis Dutton]

Agreed. We will do the best we can and break in very slowly. I'll read up
on break in procedures and we have temp probes that we can use to watch it.

Thanks all for the info!

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 3:20 PM Thaddeus Waldner  wrote:

> I’ll chime in on the importance of a clean environment. They usually spec
> a ultra high purity grease for lubricant.
>
> They also usually have a fairly specific break-in routine. I.e a pair of
> temperature probes, one near each bearing, then run the spindle, starting
> at a slow speed. Gradually increase The speed to max over several hours,
> all the while keeping an eye on the temps.
>
> Definitely *don’t* spin it up right away to “see how it runs.”
>
> > On May 27, 2020, at 1:32 PM, Curtis Dutton  wrote:
> >
> > Yes that youtube video seems to be very helpful. I've been watching it
> for
> > the last few days.
> >
> > Well we will give it a try then and see how it pans out.
> >
> > Thanks all
> >
> >> On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 2:03 PM Leonardo Marsaglia <
> ldmarsag...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> I've never took apart the ones in the Mazak (Wich I asked for quotation
> >> once)but I disassembled other lathes that were similar and it's not that
> >> much of a pain. Surely you must make some tooling sometimes to get
> things
> >> done right but nothing else.
> >>
> >> 5.000 to 7.000 sounds about what they would charge for it. From what I
> >> remember the tricky part is to guarantee a free dust and grit assembly.
> >> They claimed to have a dust controlled environment much like a
> >> semiconductor factory but I suspect part of that is marketing.
> >>
> >> One common approach for big lathes is two double row roller bearings
> with a
> >> thrust bearing for the axial load.
> >>
> >> Leonardo Marsaglia
> >>
> >> El mié., 27 may. 2020 14:51, Jon Elson 
> escribió:
> >>
> >>> On 05/27/2020 12:18 PM, Curtis Dutton wrote:
> >>>> So after finishing the retrofit of the old Miyano gang lathe the
> >> spindle
> >>>> bearings are shot. You can grab the spindle nose and push it side to
> >> side
> >>>> about .0005" to .001". The cut quality is also fairly bad. Just
> >> cutting a
> >>>> spring pass on an aluminum bar shows a lot of chatter like marks.
> >>>>
> >>>> I can also measure a .0005" to .001"  axial play by pushing on the
> face
> >>> or
> >>>> the collet closer of the spindle. Not to mention there is roughness
> and
> >>>> fairly loud bearing noise while running.
> >>>>
> >>>> I expected this but I'm looking for someone that can refurbish it or
> >> any
> >>>> advice from others that have done this before. I haven't ever sent
> >>> anything
> >>>> out to be rebuilt so I'm ignorant on the process.
> >>>> One online quote I received was 4500 to 6500. Is that reasonable? Does
> >>>> anyone know of someone or have pointers? I'm not opposed to trying to
> >> do
> >>> it
> >>>> myself but I know it would be very challenging to get it right. I'm
> >> sure
> >>>> I'd need to order 2 sets of bearings... One for the first attempt and
> >> one
> >>>> to get it right!
> >>>>
> >>> Well, it may not be that tricky.  It is probably just a pair
> >>> of angular contact precision ball bearings,
> >>> and may have some type of spacer to get the preload right.
> >>> Do you have any drawings of the
> >>> headstock?  That might give some idea of how the spindle is
> >>> assembled.
> >>>
> >>> Jon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
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> >>>
> >>
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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Rebuild Quistions

[Curtis Dutton]

Yes that youtube video seems to be very helpful. I've been watching it for
the last few days.

Well we will give it a try then and see how it pans out.

Thanks all

On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 2:03 PM Leonardo Marsaglia 
wrote:

> I've never took apart the ones in the Mazak (Wich I asked for quotation
> once)but I disassembled other lathes that were similar and it's not that
> much of a pain. Surely you must make some tooling sometimes to get things
> done right but nothing else.
>
> 5.000 to 7.000 sounds about what they would charge for it. From what I
> remember the tricky part is to guarantee a free dust and grit assembly.
> They claimed to have a dust controlled environment much like a
> semiconductor factory but I suspect part of that is marketing.
>
> One common approach for big lathes is two double row roller bearings with a
> thrust bearing for the axial load.
>
> Leonardo Marsaglia
>
> El mié., 27 may. 2020 14:51, Jon Elson  escribió:
>
> > On 05/27/2020 12:18 PM, Curtis Dutton wrote:
> > > So after finishing the retrofit of the old Miyano gang lathe the
> spindle
> > > bearings are shot. You can grab the spindle nose and push it side to
> side
> > > about .0005" to .001". The cut quality is also fairly bad. Just
> cutting a
> > > spring pass on an aluminum bar shows a lot of chatter like marks.
> > >
> > > I can also measure a .0005" to .001"  axial play by pushing on the face
> > or
> > > the collet closer of the spindle. Not to mention there is roughness and
> > > fairly loud bearing noise while running.
> > >
> > > I expected this but I'm looking for someone that can refurbish it or
> any
> > > advice from others that have done this before. I haven't ever sent
> > anything
> > > out to be rebuilt so I'm ignorant on the process.
> > > One online quote I received was 4500 to 6500. Is that reasonable? Does
> > > anyone know of someone or have pointers? I'm not opposed to trying to
> do
> > it
> > > myself but I know it would be very challenging to get it right. I'm
> sure
> > > I'd need to order 2 sets of bearings... One for the first attempt and
> one
> > > to get it right!
> > >
> > Well, it may not be that tricky.  It is probably just a pair
> > of angular contact precision ball bearings,
> > and may have some type of spacer to get the preload right.
> > Do you have any drawings of the
> > headstock?  That might give some idea of how the spindle is
> > assembled.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
> ___
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[Emc-users] Lathe Spindle Rebuild Quistions

[Curtis Dutton]

So after finishing the retrofit of the old Miyano gang lathe the spindle
bearings are shot. You can grab the spindle nose and push it side to side
about .0005" to .001". The cut quality is also fairly bad. Just cutting a
spring pass on an aluminum bar shows a lot of chatter like marks.

I can also measure a .0005" to .001"  axial play by pushing on the face or
the collet closer of the spindle. Not to mention there is roughness and
fairly loud bearing noise while running.

I expected this but I'm looking for someone that can refurbish it or any
advice from others that have done this before. I haven't ever sent anything
out to be rebuilt so I'm ignorant on the process.
One online quote I received was 4500 to 6500. Is that reasonable? Does
anyone know of someone or have pointers? I'm not opposed to trying to do it
myself but I know it would be very challenging to get it right. I'm sure
I'd need to order 2 sets of bearings... One for the first attempt and one
to get it right!


Thanks,
   Curt

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Re: [Emc-users] What type of gang lathe tool holder is this?

[Curtis Dutton]

Apologies.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A4zx2k4i04BCbur2fUuA0I2t8Df3C7TY/view?usp=sharing


On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 10:45 AM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 15:35, Curtis Dutton  wrote:
>
> > Here is a picture of a tool holder that came with it.
>
> I don't think that photos come through on the mailing list.
>
> You use Gmail, so should be able to host and share the photo on
> photos.google.com
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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[Emc-users] What type of gang lathe tool holder is this?

[Curtis Dutton]

The old lathe retrofit project is coming together. This is the machine that
I ended up using Yaskawa Sigma 5 servos with 8i20 drives. It is an old old
Miyano gang lathe.

Here is a picture of a tool holder that came with it. I can't figure out
what it is and I was wondering if anyone knows what it is, and if they have
any suggestions about tool holders that I should use for making parts.

Table top to center of spindle is 55 mm.

Thanks,
  Curt

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Re: [Emc-users] Trouble with 8i20 settings.

[Curtis Dutton]

I got time to get back to my machine and indeed it seems to be working much
better now.

I tried

current-maxlim = 100
current-minlim = -100
current-scalemax = 100

and things are much snappier.


On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 4:47 PM Curtis Dutton  wrote:

> Yes the current is set to 1 or -1 while this is occurring.
>
> I'm willing to say that it may just be as fast as it will go. Which will
> be fine for my application. I just wasn't sure.
>
> But just so I understand. If I wanted my output range to be 100 to -100
>
> I would set NVMAXCURRENT 3000 (30 AMPS)
> current-maxlim = 100
> current-minlim = -100
> current-scalemax = 100
>
>
> Thanks,
>Curt
>
> On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 4:10 PM andy pugh  wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 16 May 2020 at 17:56, Curtis Dutton  wrote:
>>
>> > I've tried to look for some documentation explaining exactly how those
>> > values work, but I can't seem to find it.
>>
>> It might not be in the most obvious place.
>> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/sserial.9.html#8i20
>>
>> But that comes closer to explaining max, min and scalemax in the 7i76
>> section rather than the 8i20 section.
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>> lunatics."
>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Trouble with 8i20 settings.

[Curtis Dutton]

Yes the current is set to 1 or -1 while this is occurring.

I'm willing to say that it may just be as fast as it will go. Which will be
fine for my application. I just wasn't sure.

But just so I understand. If I wanted my output range to be 100 to -100

I would set NVMAXCURRENT 3000 (30 AMPS)
current-maxlim = 100
current-minlim = -100
current-scalemax = 100


Thanks,
   Curt

On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 4:10 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Sat, 16 May 2020 at 17:56, Curtis Dutton  wrote:
>
> > I've tried to look for some documentation explaining exactly how those
> > values work, but I can't seem to find it.
>
> It might not be in the most obvious place.
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/sserial.9.html#8i20
>
> But that comes closer to explaining max, min and scalemax in the 7i76
> section rather than the 8i20 section.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
> ___
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[Emc-users] Trouble with 8i20 settings.

[Curtis Dutton]

I believe that I'm having trouble understanding how to set an 8i20 up
properly.

It is connected to a 2.5KW 200V AC servo which can take a maximum current
of 44.5 amps. Maximum speed of 5000RPM.

It is running a lathe spindle. I am able to get it to spin up but it seems
a bit sluggish. I also would expect, when setting the current value to
maximum output that I would see current-lim go true but it doesn't.

NVMAXCURRENT = 3000
current-maxlim = 30
current-minlim = -30
current-scalemax = 1


8i20 voltage says 350 ~ 351
voltage drops to 340 while accelerating. I have 10 GA wires from the power
supply to the 8i20 which are about 8" long. The power supply is an ELMO
Tam-20/230 with a peak of 40A power output.


I've tried to look for some documentation explaining exactly how those
values work, but I can't seem to find it.

Thanks,
  Curt

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Re: [Emc-users] Yaskawa 20-bit Sigma V Incremental encoders

[Curtis Dutton]

I have 8i20's right now. I would use STMBL but I've already spent the money
on the 8i20's.

I'm willing to do some coding. I implemented halports in linuxcnc and
intended to extend that into hostmot2. Possibly for UARTS and I also need
to create an interface with datapainter so I can move my laser engraver
rastering into hardware.

These encoders are the incremental type so I suppose that the protocol will
be slightly different. So how can I turn an rs422 7i84 into rs485 uart.







On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 8:12 PM Rene Hopf via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

>
>
> > On 22. Feb 2020, at 19:30, Curtis Dutton  wrote:
> >
> > Rene thanks,
> >
> > This will help a lot. I'll study that implementation.
> >
> > I would like to get my 5i25 to be able to process the encoder data.
> >
> > Is the protocol direction only one direction from the encoder? If it
> were I
> > could just hook up the read signals in the 7i74 and create a vhdl
> component
> > that could process the signal.
>
> No, you need to request it. Line 89 is the request. You can use only the
> f4 part of the stmbl, and convert the signal to sserial.
> Or just use a stmbl.
>
> What driver do you use?
>
> >
> >
> >> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 12:28 PM Andrew  wrote:
> >>
> >> It's not directly relevant, but there's a Linuxcnc compatible PCI card
> for
> >> Yaskawa Mechatrolink protocol http://yurtaev.com/ymtl2p.html
> >> I mean, Mechatrolink drives can be cheap sometimes.
> >>
> >> сб, 22 лют. 2020, 17:04 користувач Curtis Dutton 
> >> пише:
> >>
> >>> I'm trying to run some Yaskawa Sigma V motors with a 5i25, 7i74 and
> >> 8i20. I
> >>> want to read the encoder of the motor with hostmot2 SSI.
> >>>
> >>> I have all of my firmware set up, but I just cannot find the encoder
> >>> protocol out in the wild.
> >>>
> >>> Does anyone know it?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Also I would like to start a wiki page that collects known SSI
> >>> configurations for hostmot2 SSI. Anyone who has used an SSI module
> please
> >>> send me details about your encoder and your config string and I'll get
> >> them
> >>> onto a wiki page.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>   Curt
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-users mailing list
> >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>
> >
> > ___
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] Yaskawa 20-bit Sigma V Incremental encoders

[Curtis Dutton]

Rene thanks,

This will help a lot. I'll study that implementation.

I would like to get my 5i25 to be able to process the encoder data.

Is the protocol direction only one direction from the encoder? If it were I
could just hook up the read signals in the 7i74 and create a vhdl component
that could process the signal.


On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 12:28 PM Andrew  wrote:

> It's not directly relevant, but there's a Linuxcnc compatible PCI card for
> Yaskawa Mechatrolink protocol http://yurtaev.com/ymtl2p.html
> I mean, Mechatrolink drives can be cheap sometimes.
>
> сб, 22 лют. 2020, 17:04 користувач Curtis Dutton 
> пише:
>
> > I'm trying to run some Yaskawa Sigma V motors with a 5i25, 7i74 and
> 8i20. I
> > want to read the encoder of the motor with hostmot2 SSI.
> >
> > I have all of my firmware set up, but I just cannot find the encoder
> > protocol out in the wild.
> >
> > Does anyone know it?
> >
> >
> > Also I would like to start a wiki page that collects known SSI
> > configurations for hostmot2 SSI. Anyone who has used an SSI module please
> > send me details about your encoder and your config string and I'll get
> them
> > onto a wiki page.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >Curt
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
> ___
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[Emc-users] Yaskawa 20-bit Sigma V Incremental encoders

[Curtis Dutton]

I'm trying to run some Yaskawa Sigma V motors with a 5i25, 7i74 and 8i20. I
want to read the encoder of the motor with hostmot2 SSI.

I have all of my firmware set up, but I just cannot find the encoder
protocol out in the wild.

Does anyone know it?


Also I would like to start a wiki page that collects known SSI
configurations for hostmot2 SSI. Anyone who has used an SSI module please
send me details about your encoder and your config string and I'll get them
onto a wiki page.


Thanks,
   Curt

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Re: [Emc-users] Ethercat...twincat....endianess

[Curtis Dutton]

Ok so just for future info. I did figure this out. The beckhoff drives are
programmed in big endian so all data is essentially reversed from network
byte order. The way that twincat software dumps xml is the proper format
for linuxcnc-ethercat driver.


Thanks,
   Curtis

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 8:45 AM Curtis Dutton  wrote:

> I have successfully built and configured master, ethercat drivers and
> linuxcnc-ethercat and applied the pll timing patch on debian buster.
>
> Converting and existing machine. Ethercat working, all io boards
> talkingEthercat here we go!
>
> The next step was to configure the SDO's on the beckhoff AX5000 drives. So
> naturally I loaded up the Twincat on windows and exported the xml
> configurations for the drives.
>
> After configuring the slaves to use the initialization xml from twincat, I
> get errors and the drives won't go into operational mode.
>
> After half a day of hair pulling I think that I found out that the byte
> ordering from twincat xml files is little endian (intel byte ordering) and
> that linuxcnc-ethercat takes data in big endian (network) endian. Yes I
> read through the epic 1 post forum thread to find this out.
>
> Is that correct? If I reverse the data values in the sdo config to big
> endian my drives will initialize?
>
> Thanks,
> Curtis
>

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[Emc-users] Ethercat...twincat....endianess

[Curtis Dutton]

I have successfully built and configured master, ethercat drivers and
linuxcnc-ethercat and applied the pll timing patch on debian buster.

Converting and existing machine. Ethercat working, all io boards
talkingEthercat here we go!

The next step was to configure the SDO's on the beckhoff AX5000 drives. So
naturally I loaded up the Twincat on windows and exported the xml
configurations for the drives.

After configuring the slaves to use the initialization xml from twincat, I
get errors and the drives won't go into operational mode.

After half a day of hair pulling I think that I found out that the byte
ordering from twincat xml files is little endian (intel byte ordering) and
that linuxcnc-ethercat takes data in big endian (network) endian. Yes I
read through the epic 1 post forum thread to find this out.

Is that correct? If I reverse the data values in the sdo config to big
endian my drives will initialize?

Thanks,
Curtis

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[Emc-users] Ethercat machine - PC recommendations?

[Curtis Dutton]

Ok so a friend of mine has tasked me to convert his machine to Linuxcnc.
All of the control components are ethercat.

Are there any restrictions or recommendations about motherboards or NIC
cards that I should stick with?

Thanks,
  Curt

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Re: [Emc-users] ADC - realtime for load cell

[Curtis Dutton]

This encoder is a serial 17-bit with 4 wires. 0V, 5V, T+ and T-

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 11:26 AM Todd Zuercher 
wrote:

> Or to think of it another way, closing the loop with a force meter, would
> be analogous to the air regulator on an air counterbalance.
>
> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Todd Zuercher 
> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 8:32 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ADC - realtime for load cell
>
> I don't think closing the loop with force feedback would work, If the
> motor is applying x amount of force, adding more weight isn't going to
> change the amount of force read by the force feedback device.  It will just
> push it down.  The feedback will only be reading the force applied by the
> motor to resist the load, not the load itself, so changing the load will
> only cause acceleration.
>
> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 8:31 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ADC - realtime for load cell
>
> One way to measure force is with a spring.  Force is measured by looking at
> spring displacement. It is kind of like the load cell idea but you use
> a spring scale.
>
> Another way that is not quite to accurate is to measure the current in the
> motor.  Current is proportional to torque.
>
> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 4:39 PM Curtis Dutton  wrote:
>
> > my experiment is to use a force measuring device to proportionally
> > control torque output on a servo attached to a ball screw.
> >
> > as a thought experiment imagine a platform hoisted by said ball screw.
> > as you added weight to the platform the motor torque would increase to
> > offset the weight and keep it steady. or you could set the required
> > force equal to X kgs and with less than X kgs on the platform it would
> > travel up proportionally. the motor would increase torque to maintain
> > the force value. if more force than X the platform would travel down
> proportionally.
> > the motor would decrease torque to maintain the set force value.
> >
> > in effect not a position commanded but a force commanded linear actuator.
> >
> > is there some othere device that would be better for this type of
> > force measurement? in the 0 to about 500kg range.
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 11:51 AM Chris Albertson
> > 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > in any case, even with lower 16-bit precision, the most important
> > > part of the design is the analog portion that sits between the load
> > > cell and the A/D converter.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 6:38 AM Curtis Dutton 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Chris thanks for the info.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not exactly certain at this point what precision I need. I'll
> > > > be determining that experimentally later. I will keep in mind what
> > > > you
> > have
> > > > said, I'll deal with it after I get my hardware running.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 6:17 PM Chris Albertson <
> > > albertson.ch...@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > If you want better than 16-bits and 1KHz then you also are going
> > > > > to
> > > need
> > > > a
> > > > > very good quality analog signal conditioning and instrumentation
> > > > amplifier.
> > > > >   The analog circuit between the A/D converts and the load cell
> > really
> > > > does
> > > > > matter.   You have to reject common-mode or the low bits will
> > just
> > > be
> > > > > filled with 60Hz noise.  And you can not simply use a "brick wall"
> > > filter
> > > > > or you will not get the desired bandwidth through.  (If you are
> > needing
> > > > to
> > > > > sample at 1K then you must care about 500Hz bandwidth.
> > > > >
> > > > > This matters a LOT more than which A/D chip you use.
> > > > >
> > > > > 22 bits is better than one part per million. Do you really need
> that?
> > > It
> > > > > will be hard to isolate all of the elect

Re: [Emc-users] ADC - realtime for load cell

[Curtis Dutton]

I appreciate the help and information.

One last question before I go out and try this. I found a servo motor with
a serial encoder. What interface board should I use to read that if I were
using an 8i20 to power the servo?

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 9:06 AM Les Newell 
wrote:

> If you are trying to counterbalance a pure weight this system would
> inevitably end up accelerating into it's travel limits. However if the
> load has some sort of spring component it should be stable. For instance
> if you are trying to counterbalance a load so the force feedback is
> providing most of the force but something else is providing a small
> stabilizing force it should work.
>
> It is difficult to provide better advice without knowing more about the
> application.
>
> Les
>
> On 19/09/2019 13:31, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > I don't think closing the loop with force feedback would work, If the
> motor is applying x amount of force, adding more weight isn't going to
> change the amount of force read by the force feedback device.  It will just
> push it down.  The feedback will only be reading the force applied by the
> motor to resist the load, not the load itself, so changing the load will
> only cause acceleration.
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] ADC - realtime for load cell

[Curtis Dutton]

my experiment is to use a force measuring device to proportionally control
torque output on a servo attached to a ball screw.

as a thought experiment imagine a platform hoisted by said ball screw. as
you added weight to the platform the motor torque would increase to offset
the weight and keep it steady. or you could set the required force equal to
X kgs and with less than X kgs on the platform it would travel up
proportionally. the motor would increase torque to maintain the force
value. if more force than X the platform would travel down proportionally.
the motor would decrease torque to maintain the set force value.

in effect not a position commanded but a force commanded linear actuator.

is there some othere device that would be better for this type of force
measurement? in the 0 to about 500kg range.

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019, 11:51 AM Chris Albertson 
wrote:

> in any case, even with lower 16-bit precision, the most important part of
> the design is the analog portion that sits between the load cell and the
> A/D converter.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 6:38 AM Curtis Dutton  wrote:
>
> > Chris thanks for the info.
> >
> > I'm not exactly certain at this point what precision I need. I'll be
> > determining that experimentally later. I will keep in mind what you have
> > said, I'll deal with it after I get my hardware running.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 6:17 PM Chris Albertson <
> albertson.ch...@gmail.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > If you want better than 16-bits and 1KHz then you also are going to
> need
> > a
> > > very good quality analog signal conditioning and instrumentation
> > amplifier.
> > >   The analog circuit between the A/D converts and the load cell really
> > does
> > > matter.   You have to reject common-mode or the low bits will just
> be
> > > filled with 60Hz noise.  And you can not simply use a "brick wall"
> filter
> > > or you will not get the desired bandwidth through.  (If you are needing
> > to
> > > sample at 1K then you must care about 500Hz bandwidth.
> > >
> > > This matters a LOT more than which A/D chip you use.
> > >
> > > 22 bits is better than one part per million. Do you really need that?
> It
> > > will be hard to isolate all of the electrical and mechanical noise
> > > especially
> > >
> > > On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 2:26 PM Curtis Dutton 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have a pet project I'm starting that will involve reading a load
> cell
> > > in
> > > > as near as real time as possible and using that input for servo
> > control.
> > > >
> > > > I plan on using mesa hardware to interface to the equipment. Does
> > anyone
> > > > know of a nice way to interface hotsmot2 to a load cell?
> > > >
> > > > I would like a fairly high resolution. 16 bit minimum, the higher the
> > > > better up to 22 bit I suppose. As well as the ability to sample at
> the
> > > > servo thread rate of 1 Khz.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >Curtis
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Chris Albertson
> > > Redondo Beach, California
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
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Re: [Emc-users] ADC - realtime for load cell

[Curtis Dutton]

Right now my test set up is going to consist of a 6i25, 7i85 and an 8i20. I
wonder if the 7i85 could expose a BSPI interface. Or could I tack a BSPI on
to the 6i25's spare 25 pin connector?

I also am considering just writing a parallel port driver running at some
higher rate than the servo thread that would allow me to communicate with
the spi device.

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 9:36 AM Curtis Dutton  wrote:

> Chris thanks for the info.
>
> I'm not exactly certain at this point what precision I need. I'll be
> determining that experimentally later. I will keep in mind what you have
> said, I'll deal with it after I get my hardware running.
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 6:17 PM Chris Albertson 
> wrote:
>
>> If you want better than 16-bits and 1KHz then you also are going to need a
>> very good quality analog signal conditioning and instrumentation
>> amplifier.
>>   The analog circuit between the A/D converts and the load cell really
>> does
>> matter.   You have to reject common-mode or the low bits will just be
>> filled with 60Hz noise.  And you can not simply use a "brick wall" filter
>> or you will not get the desired bandwidth through.  (If you are needing to
>> sample at 1K then you must care about 500Hz bandwidth.
>>
>> This matters a LOT more than which A/D chip you use.
>>
>> 22 bits is better than one part per million. Do you really need that?  It
>> will be hard to isolate all of the electrical and mechanical noise
>> especially
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 2:26 PM Curtis Dutton  wrote:
>>
>> > I have a pet project I'm starting that will involve reading a load cell
>> in
>> > as near as real time as possible and using that input for servo control.
>> >
>> > I plan on using mesa hardware to interface to the equipment. Does anyone
>> > know of a nice way to interface hotsmot2 to a load cell?
>> >
>> > I would like a fairly high resolution. 16 bit minimum, the higher the
>> > better up to 22 bit I suppose. As well as the ability to sample at the
>> > servo thread rate of 1 Khz.
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >Curtis
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Emc-users mailing list
>> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Chris Albertson
>> Redondo Beach, California
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] ADC - realtime for load cell

[Curtis Dutton]

Chris thanks for the info.

I'm not exactly certain at this point what precision I need. I'll be
determining that experimentally later. I will keep in mind what you have
said, I'll deal with it after I get my hardware running.


On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 6:17 PM Chris Albertson 
wrote:

> If you want better than 16-bits and 1KHz then you also are going to need a
> very good quality analog signal conditioning and instrumentation amplifier.
>   The analog circuit between the A/D converts and the load cell really does
> matter.   You have to reject common-mode or the low bits will just be
> filled with 60Hz noise.  And you can not simply use a "brick wall" filter
> or you will not get the desired bandwidth through.  (If you are needing to
> sample at 1K then you must care about 500Hz bandwidth.
>
> This matters a LOT more than which A/D chip you use.
>
> 22 bits is better than one part per million. Do you really need that?  It
> will be hard to isolate all of the electrical and mechanical noise
> especially
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 2:26 PM Curtis Dutton  wrote:
>
> > I have a pet project I'm starting that will involve reading a load cell
> in
> > as near as real time as possible and using that input for servo control.
> >
> > I plan on using mesa hardware to interface to the equipment. Does anyone
> > know of a nice way to interface hotsmot2 to a load cell?
> >
> > I would like a fairly high resolution. 16 bit minimum, the higher the
> > better up to 22 bit I suppose. As well as the ability to sample at the
> > servo thread rate of 1 Khz.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >Curtis
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
> ___
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>

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[Emc-users] ADC - realtime for load cell

[Curtis Dutton]

I have a pet project I'm starting that will involve reading a load cell in
as near as real time as possible and using that input for servo control.

I plan on using mesa hardware to interface to the equipment. Does anyone
know of a nice way to interface hotsmot2 to a load cell?

I would like a fairly high resolution. 16 bit minimum, the higher the
better up to 22 bit I suppose. As well as the ability to sample at the
servo thread rate of 1 Khz.


Thanks,
   Curtis

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Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 8i20 as a spindle drive

[Curtis Dutton]

Ok well I'll try it out thanks!

On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 3:36 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Thu, 5 Sep 2019 at 20:17, Curtis Dutton  wrote:
>
> > I'll be controlling it via hostmot2.
>
>
> I was assuming that.
>
>
> > I just wasn't sure if the driver could
> > be commanded without an encoder.
>
>
> It just needs an angle and a current. Which is where the siggen might be an
> answer.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 8i20 as a spindle drive

[Curtis Dutton]

I'll be controlling it via hostmot2. I just wasn't sure if the driver could
be commanded without an encoder.

On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 2:05 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Thu, 5 Sep 2019 at 18:09, Curtis Dutton  wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know if it would be possible to use a Mesa 8i20 for a 3 phase
> > spindle motor? No encoder just for a router.
> >
>
> I don't see a reason why not, though PCW might.
>
>  The STMBL drive can be used open-loop as a VFD.
>
> You should be able to generate the right effect with siggen.sawtooth.
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man9/siggen.9.html
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
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[Emc-users] Mesa 8i20 as a spindle drive

[Curtis Dutton]

Does anyone know if it would be possible to use a Mesa 8i20 for a 3 phase
spindle motor? No encoder just for a router.

Thanks,
   Curt

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[Emc-users] holzher router

[Curtis Dutton]

Hey everyone. Not much to do with linuxcnc. Other than that I make my
living with linuxcnc. Recently a friend of mine purchased a used holzher
cnc router. He asked me to get it turned on and running.

After a long long day playing with it, reading mixed german and english
dialogues etc... we were able to get it powered and ran an old spoilboard
cutting program. But doing more than that was very difficult to get going.

The language that it understands seems to be callled nc-hops. I cannot find
any in depth reference documentation for the controller. we have the manual
but it was missing a lot of details we needed to know. it doesnt seem to
support real g-code.

Is there anyone out there with some experience, docs, knowledge etc... He
is willing to pay for some consulting.

The holzher machine is a very well built machine. The control software left
me feeling very frustrated.

Any insight is always appreciated.

Thanks,
  Curt

P.S. Linuxcnc is great and I wish we could retrofit. If we can avoid that
it would be easier on me.

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Re: [Emc-users] Cleaning Carbide Bits -plywood gue.

[Curtis Dutton]

This works very well for me. But the stuff is NASTY!

http://www.kleanstrip.com/product/naked-gun-spray-gun-paint-remover

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Chris Albertson 
wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 11:23 AM,  wrote:
>
> > Was gonna say that.  Something's gotta be messed up to get that prob.
> >
>
> That might be true on a milling machine.  But my wood routers are hand held
> tools and I might be cutting plywood or white pine i.e. construction grade
> douglas fir that is still wet.  The blades get dunked up long before the
> carbine dulls.   A while back I cute hundreds of finger joints in 3/4"
> thick pine and the pine has pitch in it.But this is all carpentry, not
> machining
>
> >
> > Danny
> >
> >
> >  Todd  Zuercher  wrote:
> > > Honestly we hardly ever have to clean our tools, but we don't mill much
> > pitchy wood, mostly hardwoods and MDF.  For us if a tool is getting
> clogged
> > up, it is because it is too dull and is getting too hot, or the feed rate
> > is way to slow and it got too hot.  Either way it usually ends up in the
> > bin.
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "craig" 
> > > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 12:33:11 PM
> > > Subject: [Emc-users] Cleaning Carbide Bits -plywood gue.
> > >
> > > What is the best way to clean plywood glues off small carbide router
> > bits?
> > >
> > > I use small carbide bits to work wood and sometimes plywood.  Mostly
> > > smaller than 3mm(1/8 in) bits.
> > > Sometimes plywood glue melts onto the bits.Cleaning them is a
> > > problem.  Suggestions?
> > >
> > > Craig
> > >
> > > 
> > --
> > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > > 
> > --
> > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> > 
> > --
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
> 
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] calling hm2_..write + hm2_..read at higher rates

[Curtis Dutton]

Just to correct my last email... the servo period is running at 10Khz not
100Khz

Thanks again,
  Curt

On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Curtis Dutton <curtd...@gmail.com> wrote:

> So Sebastian's suggestion works without a problem. Thanks! With a 100Khz
> servo period things work fine.
>
> Before that I was making progress when I started setting the stepgen max
> accel, and max vecloity. Basically the systems starts to resemble a servo
> system at that point. I think to make it work properly, a veclocity mode
> pid controller would need to go in between the motion component and the
> stepgen.
>
> Because the servo period boost is sufficient for my needs, of course I
> will just use that, however for future reference it seems that one can run
> hostmot2 at a higher speed.
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Peter C. Wallace <p...@mesanet.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 7 Feb 2017, Curtis Dutton wrote:
>>
>> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 15:55:32 -0500
>>> From: Curtis Dutton <curtd...@gmail.com>
>>> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>>> <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> >
>>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] calling hm2_..write +
>>> hm2_..read at higher rates
>>>
>>> That is where I'm at right now. My base thread is limited because the
>>>
>> feedback from hostmot2 only changes at servo rate, and it only updates the
>> pwmgen at servo rate as well.
>>
>> So computing the output value of the pwmgen at the base thread speed is a
>> waster of effort..
>>
>> If I could read and write hostmot2 faster it would work, but it appears it
>> is not designed to do so.
>>
>> The hostmot2 read and write time's are short enough to work with a base
>> thread of 50 us, but there must be something in there that is assuming the
>> servo period is 1000 us.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not really, 8KHz servo threads are possible on fast PC hardware
>>
>> The best way to do this with Mesa hardware would be data painting
>> firmware/driver/interpreter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 3:44 PM, andy pugh <bodge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 7 February 2017 at 18:28, Curtis Dutton <curtd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > As part of my laser engraver implementation that I have been working
>>> on,
>>> I
>>> > have a raster component that needs to vary the pwmgen output at higher
>>> rate
>>> > than the servo period.
>>>
>>> I don't think you can vary the pwm duty cycle any faster than the
>>> servo thread rate.
>>> The duty cycle calculations are performed in a floating point thread,
>>> the base-thread function runs at a constant PWM rate between
>>> duty-cycle updates.
>>>
>>> It is actually possible to run floating-point base-threads, but then
>>> you will find that the component that determines the duty cycle would
>>> also have to run in that faster thread.
>>>
>>> Maybe you could run three threads?
>>>
>>> --
>>> atp
>>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>>> lunatics."
>>> яя George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> ___
>>> Emc-users mailing list
>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>>
>>> 
>> --
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
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>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>> Peter Wallace
>> Mesa Electronics
>>
>> (\__/)
>> (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
>> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
>>
>> 
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>>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] calling hm2_..write + hm2_..read at higher rates

[Curtis Dutton]

So Sebastian's suggestion works without a problem. Thanks! With a 100Khz
servo period things work fine.

Before that I was making progress when I started setting the stepgen max
accel, and max vecloity. Basically the systems starts to resemble a servo
system at that point. I think to make it work properly, a veclocity mode
pid controller would need to go in between the motion component and the
stepgen.

Because the servo period boost is sufficient for my needs, of course I will
just use that, however for future reference it seems that one can run
hostmot2 at a higher speed.

On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Peter C. Wallace <p...@mesanet.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 7 Feb 2017, Curtis Dutton wrote:
>
> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2017 15:55:32 -0500
>> From: Curtis Dutton <curtd...@gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>> <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] calling hm2_..write +
>> hm2_..read at higher rates
>>
>> That is where I'm at right now. My base thread is limited because the
>>
> feedback from hostmot2 only changes at servo rate, and it only updates the
> pwmgen at servo rate as well.
>
> So computing the output value of the pwmgen at the base thread speed is a
> waster of effort..
>
> If I could read and write hostmot2 faster it would work, but it appears it
> is not designed to do so.
>
> The hostmot2 read and write time's are short enough to work with a base
> thread of 50 us, but there must be something in there that is assuming the
> servo period is 1000 us.
>
>
>
> Not really, 8KHz servo threads are possible on fast PC hardware
>
> The best way to do this with Mesa hardware would be data painting
> firmware/driver/interpreter
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 3:44 PM, andy pugh <bodge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 7 February 2017 at 18:28, Curtis Dutton <curtd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > As part of my laser engraver implementation that I have been working on,
>> I
>> > have a raster component that needs to vary the pwmgen output at higher
>> rate
>> > than the servo period.
>>
>> I don't think you can vary the pwm duty cycle any faster than the
>> servo thread rate.
>> The duty cycle calculations are performed in a floating point thread,
>> the base-thread function runs at a constant PWM rate between
>> duty-cycle updates.
>>
>> It is actually possible to run floating-point base-threads, but then
>> you will find that the component that determines the duty cycle would
>> also have to run in that faster thread.
>>
>> Maybe you could run three threads?
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>> lunatics."
>> яя George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>>
>> 
>> --
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>> 
> --
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> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
> (\__/)
> (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
>
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] calling hm2_..write + hm2_..read at higher rates

[Curtis Dutton]

That is where I'm at right now. My base thread is limited because the
feedback from hostmot2 only changes at servo rate, and it only updates the
pwmgen at servo rate as well.

So computing the output value of the pwmgen at the base thread speed is a
waster of effort..

If I could read and write hostmot2 faster it would work, but it appears it
is not designed to do so.

The hostmot2 read and write time's are short enough to work with a base
thread of 50 us, but there must be something in there that is assuming the
servo period is 1000 us.





On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 3:44 PM, andy pugh <bodge...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 7 February 2017 at 18:28, Curtis Dutton <curtd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > As part of my laser engraver implementation that I have been working on,
> I
> > have a raster component that needs to vary the pwmgen output at higher
> rate
> > than the servo period.
>
> I don't think you can vary the pwm duty cycle any faster than the
> servo thread rate.
> The duty cycle calculations are performed in a floating point thread,
> the base-thread function runs at a constant PWM rate between
> duty-cycle updates.
>
> It is actually possible to run floating-point base-threads, but then
> you will find that the component that determines the duty cycle would
> also have to run in that faster thread.
>
> Maybe you could run three threads?
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
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Re: [Emc-users] calling hm2_..write + hm2_..read at higher rates

[Curtis Dutton]

Ok I did try using the read_gpio and write_gpio.

The raster component reads the stepgen-fb position and then updates its
output power based up on that, which is wired to a pwmgen.

Would read_gpio and write_gpio affect the pwmgen output?

On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:

> >
> > As part of my laser engraver implementation that I have been working on,
> I
> > have a raster component that needs to vary the pwmgen output at higher
> rate
> > than the servo period.
> >
> > The math I'm using to determine the speed is the scan speed. So for
> > instance a 6000mm/min scan speed, with an update rate of 1Khz gives me a
> > resolution of about 0.1mm.  Thus 10Khz will give me 0.01mm resolution at
> > that speed, and allows me to bump up the speed without losing resolution.
> >
> > 6000 / 60 / 1000 = 0.1mm
> >
> >
> >
> > For me a base-thread at about 10 ns will work. So the idea I had was
> to
> > put my raster components and the hostmot2 stepgens and pwmgen update
> > functions to run on the base thread, while normal motion work still
> occurs
> > on the servo thread.
>
> AFAIK if you have multiple threads, you can only manipulate GPIO at the
> base
> thread rate using the hm2_..read_gpio and
> hm2_..write_gpio
>
> functions
>
> Also this only works on PCI interfaced cards (not EPP,SPI,Ethernet)
>
> The proper way to do this is probably with motion synchronized data
> painting
> firmware/driver/interpreter changes
>
> >
> > I was able to set up the hal properly and assign the write and read
> methods
> > to the base thread.
> >
> > Now though the steppers now aren't operating properly. When operating
> they
> > are jerky and louder. They seem to want to run in one direction but seize
> > up when running in the other direction.
> >
> > I'm not sure where to start to debug this. Any tips are welcome.
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
> > 
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>
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
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[Emc-users] calling hm2_..write + hm2_..read at higher rates

[Curtis Dutton]

As part of my laser engraver implementation that I have been working on, I
have a raster component that needs to vary the pwmgen output at higher rate
than the servo period.

The math I'm using to determine the speed is the scan speed. So for
instance a 6000mm/min scan speed, with an update rate of 1Khz gives me a
resolution of about 0.1mm.  Thus 10Khz will give me 0.01mm resolution at
that speed, and allows me to bump up the speed without losing resolution.

6000 / 60 / 1000 = 0.1mm



For me a base-thread at about 10 ns will work. So the idea I had was to
put my raster components and the hostmot2 stepgens and pwmgen update
functions to run on the base thread, while normal motion work still occurs
on the servo thread.

I was able to set up the hal properly and assign the write and read methods
to the base thread.

Now though the steppers now aren't operating properly. When operating they
are jerky and louder. They seem to want to run in one direction but seize
up when running in the other direction.

I'm not sure where to start to debug this. Any tips are welcome.


Thanks!
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Re: [Emc-users] Curing Oven

[Curtis Dutton]

Thank you for the suggestion. I will definitly be using a thermal breaker
on a latched circuit physical contactor (an estop circuit)

On Aug 2, 2016 3:07 PM, "John Kasunich" <jmkasun...@fastmail.fm> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016, at 02:56 PM, Curtis Dutton wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> >
> > I'm in the middle of designing a paint curing oven for my shop. I am
> going
> > to control it with linuxcnc. The oven only runs at 120 Degress
> Farenheight
> > ~ 50 Deg Celsius
> >
>
> No specific answers to your LinuxCNC questions, just a general
> reminder.  If you are going to leave this oven unattended, you
> want some brute-force dirt-simple over temperature protection.
>
> Like a Klixon temperature switch and a contactor.
>
> No semiconductors, no software.
>
> True story:  My former employer had a 40 deg C burn-in oven
> for testing small VFDs.  Over a weekend, the solid-state relay
> used to control the heating element failed shorted.  On Monday
> we found 6 drives whose plastic covers looked like something
> out of a Salvador Dali painting.
>
>
> --
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>   jmkasun...@fastmail.fm
>
>
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[Emc-users] Curing Oven

[Curtis Dutton]

Hi everyone,


I'm in the middle of designing a paint curing oven for my shop. I am going
to control it with linuxcnc. The oven only runs at 120 Degress Farenheight
~ 50 Deg Celsius


So far I plan on using LM35's for temperature reading. A 120V 1500W heating
element driven with a solid state relay.


I would like to use a 7i92 ethernet board along with a 7I66-8 serial card
for IO.

I can use the analog reading capability of the 7I66 to read my temperature
sensors.

I have a couple of questions. Can I hook the 7i92 directly to the 7i66
without needing an in-between card due to the fact that the 7i66 is a
serial card?


I think that this is possible, but would I be able to run one of the output
pins at 60HZ PWM to drive the heating element?

I suppose that I could do a HAL component PWM and just hook it up to a 7i66
pin.


Also any suggestions for a mini PC that can run linux. Even just a
motherboard would be fine, especially if I can power it from 24V DC and
mount it inside of my enclosure. I'd prefer to remain with x86 arch.



Thanks,
   Curt
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Re: [Emc-users] JA branch is merged into master?

[Curtis Dutton]

I updates my machine to run with the latest JA13 branch. Debian Jessie,
kernel: 3.4-9-rtai-686-pae

It has dual X axis servos and a rotary axis. I've run a few programs and
everything seems great so far.



On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 1:07 PM, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 29 April 2016 at 16:59, Andrew  wrote:
>
> > Now I just need to add gladevcp panel to adjust the platform position by
> > adding offsets to joints (I see no other way to adjust HOME_OFFSETS for
> > correct home position).
>
> The kinematics functions all contain a function called
> "kinematicsHome(...)"
>
> "All" that you need to do is make the rest of the LinuxCNC code
> actually call that function at some point in the homing process.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Harmonic Drive HA-600-2 Driver Manual

[Curtis Dutton]

Thank you very much. The actuators seem pretty cool. I'll pipe back up once
I get some experience with it.

On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 6:26 AM, Andrew pkm...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Curtis,

 I found this on the net
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/7fobhnnc20htjvo/HA-600%20Series.pdf?dl=0
 Always liked their actuators but never had a chance to test one.

 Cheers,
 Andrew

 2015-07-25 1:22 GMT+03:00 Curtis Dutton curtd...@gmail.com:

  I recently acquired an HA-600-2 servo driver as well as a servo actuator
  that accompanies it. The only trouble, it didn't come with any wires, and
  no manual. I can't find it on the net and so far the HarmonicDrive people
  haven't gotten back to me about my request.
 
  Does anyone happen to have a pdf or a manual?
 
 
  Thanks,
 Curtis
 
 
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[Emc-users] Harmonic Drive HA-600-2 Driver Manual

[Curtis Dutton]

I recently acquired an HA-600-2 servo driver as well as a servo actuator
that accompanies it. The only trouble, it didn't come with any wires, and
no manual. I can't find it on the net and so far the HarmonicDrive people
haven't gotten back to me about my request.

Does anyone happen to have a pdf or a manual?


Thanks,
   Curtis
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Re: [Emc-users] Maximum rate I can drive my steppers

[Curtis Dutton]

If they have tail shafts, cheap encoders from US digital mounted on the
back of them are the best solution.You can tie the f-error back into
linuxcnc so you know exactly how much error has accumulated and can fault
if its too much.

I've gone through this very thing, and ultimately went to servos. However
steppers with encoders served me very well for a few years and made me
profitable enough to afford the luxury of servos. The encoders helped save
me many times the cost of them, over the money I would have lost in scrap
parts.

The effects of missed steps become larger on longer programs, or running
the machine without homing it for many days. I imagine on even a perfectly
running stepper machine, eventually its going to miss a step, and I found
for me it was usually due to a specific combination of movements of a
program that would cause it. Once you program enough parts, it will
eventuall find that combo that causes missed steps, and you won't know it
can happen until it does.

-Curt

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 6:36 AM, John Thornton j...@gnipsel.com wrote:

 The maximum velocity depends on the voltage and as Jon said testing for
 lost step is needed.

 For example look at the torque vs speed charts here

 http://www.automationdirect.com/static/specs/surestepmotors.pdf

 Also on the wiki is some formulas for steppers

 JT

 On 7/23/2015 7:42 PM, Tom Easterday wrote:
  I am tweaking my Emco 120P lathe that is driven by Berger-Lahr 5-phase
 stepper motors and Oriental Motor Vexta UDX5128NA drivers.  Step/Dir is
 supplied by a Mesa 6i25.  I want to know what maximum velocity I can
 reliably get from the motors.  I have run them at 90ipm max for some time
 and have never had a problem.  But we want to do some movements that
 require higher speeds (140-150 ipm) and I am wondering if I crank up the
 step pulses can they handle it.
 
  I turned up the parameters in my .ini file in order to step at 150ipm
 and I get what I think is good movement.  I moved around randomly and also
 in specific increments and don’t see any error on the DRO.  What tests can
 I do to verify that the machine can RELIABLY handle this speed?
 
  The relevant section on the step/dir timing from the Vexta driver
 manuals are here:
  http://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/vexta-1.pdf
  and
  http://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/Vexta-2.pdf
 
 
  My current .ini settings are:
 
  [DISPLAY]
  MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY=2.5
 
  [TRAJ]
  MAX_VELOCITY=2.5
 
  [AXIS_0]
  MAX_VELOCITY=2.5
  MAX_ACCELERATION=50
  STEPGEN_MAXVEL=3.125
  STEPGEN_MAXACCEL=62.50
  DIRSETUP=1
  DIRHOLD=5000
  STEPSPACE=5000
  STEPSPACE=5000
  STEP_SCALE=10159.997
 
 
  AXIS_2]
  identical to AXIS_0 (except for “-“ on STEP_SCALE)
 
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i64 suddenly missing

[Curtis Dutton]

I apologize. False alarm. I had updated the 5i25 to the latest firmware but
accidentally put in the wrong firmware. Thus after a reboot it took hold
and thus was assigning the 7i64 to a different address. after the proper
firmware and a reboot and things are fine.
On Jul 22, 2015 10:12 AM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote:

 On Tue, 21 Jul 2015, Curtis Dutton wrote:

  Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 06:14:46 -0400
  From: Curtis Dutton curtd...@gmail.com
  Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
  emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 
  Subject: [Emc-users] 7i64 suddenly missing
 
  I have a 5i25 running with 2 7i85s cards. I also have a 7i64 for my io
  needs. Today I shut down linuxcnc and restarted. The 7i64 is no longer
  recognized. Are there any debug settings i can use to more details as to
  the possible problem? The 7i64 does have power.
 
  Thanks,
Curt


 If the 7I64 has power, I would make sure

 1. None of the 7I64 option jumpers has gotten moved or displaced

 2. The serial cable is secure at both ends

 3. The RS-422 daughtercard connections are not loose

 4. if the 7I64 is powered via the serial cable, make sure that the 5V power
 measures at least 4.5V at the 7I64 end



 
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[Emc-users] 7i64 suddenly missing

[Curtis Dutton]

I have a 5i25 running with 2 7i85s cards. I also have a 7i64 for my io
needs. Today I shut down linuxcnc and restarted. The 7i64 is no longer
recognized. Are there any debug settings i can use to more details as to
the possible problem? The 7i64 does have power.

Thanks,
   Curt
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Re: [Emc-users] Closed Loop Step/Dir Servo Driver Configuration.

[Curtis Dutton]

I use Step/Dir servo controllers with a 5i25 configured to use stepgens.
The encoder feedback run back to linuxcnc. Linuxcnc watches for following
error and faults if it gets out of hand. My results have been great so far.
It's a bit of a pain to load up tuner software to tune the drivers
separately but once that is done it has worked well.

 I would imagine that even if you did the velocity thing, the servo driver
would still be using its own PID loop, thus just greater complexity
overall. If you could bypass the PID loop in the driver and it would just
become a dumb amplifier, the velocity approach would be worth it, because
linuxcnc is easier to tune and gives you greater control.



On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 5:46 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 6 November 2014 21:29, Billy Huddleston bi...@ivdc.com wrote:

  Was looking into using a Step/Dir servo solution.  It's possible to send
 the encoder info back to linuxcnc to complete the control loop to
 linuxcnc.  My question is, how do you
  configure Linux CNC in this case?

 There are two ways. You can just configure exactly like a stepper,
 then either only use the encoder feedback to detect following errors,
 or in fact use an error output from the drives to detect that.

 The alternative is to configure the stepgens in velocity mode, which
 means that they output a step and direction signal at the _rate_
 requested, not the number of steps requested. This means that the
 step-pulses are a digitally encoded velocity signal. (conceptually
 identical to +/- 10V velocity command). The drive remains configured
 just the same, but the HAL config is a lot more servo-like, with PID
 components (that need tuning) and encoder feedback.

 I have never used either setup, so can't comment on the pros and cons.

 You might also want to consider the (rather cheaper) hybrid steppers
 that have recently appeared.

 http://www.leadshine.com/producttypes.aspx?type=productscategory=easy-servo-productsproducttype=easy-servo-drives

 Available on eBay.

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[Emc-users] What do you know about Precix Performa

[Curtis Dutton]

So I recently came across an oportunity to purchase a 2004 Precix Performa.

This picture is almost identical to what I was able to see.
http://www.precix.com/CNC_routers_performa.htm

It has what seems to be ground ball screws, with rotating ball nuts, servo
motors, and a tool changing spindle and a nice vaccum table. 25mm linear
rails. Seems to be quite heavily built.

The machine looks to be in very good condition, as I was able to inspect it
for a few hours. Unfortunately it is not under power, as the controller is
not functional. Being that the machine I use now is powered by linuxcnc,
and I built my previous machine myself, I feel comfortable converting it
over to linuxcnc with mesa hardware.


I'm curious as to anyone out there that has run across one of these. What
do you think of the construction, how does it perform, etc The
reputation of precix, from what I could find is not necessarily bad, but
doesn't seem spotless either.



Thanks in advance,
   Curtis
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Re: [Emc-users] What do you know about Precix Performa

[Curtis Dutton]

That is interesting now that you mention it I see what you mean about the
mounts. After reviewing some photos it seems that they made a  pinch
style clamp out of the mounting plates. With a slot machined through the
center of the hole and a transverse screw running through the top of the
plate to close the clamp.  I think that those plates were about 1-1/2
thick.

According to the current owner it weighs about 6000lbs.
 On Aug 3, 2014 7:55 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 4 August 2014 00:24, Curtis Dutton curtd...@gmail.com wrote:

  I'm curious as to anyone out there that has run across one of these. What
  do you think of the construction,

 I have never seen one in the metal, and the picture on the web site
 actually looks like a CAD model to me.

 I am a fan of rotating-nut arrangements. They can run faster without
 the screws whipping, and can give you more choices on how things are
 mounted.

 They seem to have un-necessarily removed material from round the ball
 screw anchoring points, which seems an odd thing to do. But other than
 that it looks like a pretty substantial piece of equipment.

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Re: [Emc-users] Leadshine ACS806 - Large f-error at higher speeds - what is acceptable?

[Curtis Dutton]

Today I received a second AC806 drive in the mail. It is a V1 ACS806.

The V1 is simpler to tune. It only has a current loop Kp and Ki, as well as
position loop Kp, Ki, and Kd.

I tried that on the same motor that the AVS806V2 is having trouble with.
Following error is now down to under 20 counts at full velocity, about
1400rpm, and down to under 5 counts or so at low velocities. Which is well
within my needs.

So by process of elimination it is some form of setting on the AVS806V2
which is the problem. (which has more parameters, etc... involved with it)

I'll keep troubleshooting the V2, but being that an older, basically
identical drive is performing properly, that helps me eliminate motor/ps
sizing concerns.


On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 3:17 AM, Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net wrote:

 On Thu, 1 May 2014 18:56:23 -0400, you wrote:

 Thanks to everybody for the information. If anything it helped me
 understand the nature of servos better as I've been sitting here tweaking
 the machine.

 So it has something to do with some sort of lag in the servo driver. I'll
 be emailing leadshine with my fingers crossed hoping they can help.

 Here are the Specs

  Position following error : +/-1 count
  Velocity accuracy: +/-2rpm
  Maximum acceleration speed (No Load) : 80 rpm/ms2
  Input frequency up to 600 kHz
  Maximum speed : 4000 rpm
  Allowable low speed reaches1 rpm
  Positioning accuracy :+/-1 count
  Suitable for 18 - 80 VDC AC servo

 Are you within them?

 Have you used the available tuning software using the serial connection
 to the drive? If not you need to to see what's going on and tune it
 properly. You will need to adjust the Kp, Kd and Vp parameters. All
 explained in the software manual.

 Steve Blackmore
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Re: [Emc-users] Leadshine ACS806 - Large f-error at higher speeds - what is acceptable?

[Curtis Dutton]

Ok this makes sense. Thanks all for your explanations. I guess I just
wasn't sure what was reasonable behavior and what wasnt.

So if the motor is rated for 36v, and the drive is rated for 80 volts max.
How much voltage can I get away with delivering to the drives without
damaging equipment?


Thanks,
   Curtis


On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:

 On 05/01/2014 06:22 AM, andy pugh wrote:
  On 30 April 2014 19:37, Curtis Dutton curtd...@gmail.com wrote:
  The motor is a 130W motor
  1.5mm at around 12000mm/min.
  That seems like a very small motor, and a very fast travel.
 
  Is it possible that the motor is simply running out of steam?
 
 Generally when the drive runs out of available voltage
 the following error very suddenly grows without bound.
 So, you can be at 500mm/min with error of .01mm,
 and then at 550mm/min the error rises continuously
 because full voltage applied to the motor is only
 giving you 520mm/min, to give an example.

 So, having the following error increase only a modest bit
 at higher speeds may indicate the drive just has a
 constant time lag in the internal loop.  Or, it may
 be a torque limit, where the 130 W motor is nearly
 maxed out on current driving the axis at 12 m/min.
 Those conditions might cause a bounded error
 that increases roughly proportionally to velocity.

 Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Leadshine ACS806 - Large f-error at higher speeds - what is acceptable?

[Curtis Dutton]

Thanks to everybody for the information. If anything it helped me
understand the nature of servos better as I've been sitting here tweaking
the machine.

I tried 2 experiments to see if I could get better results.

#1. Give it 80Volts: I hooked the driver up to an 80v PS. The drive clearly
had more power, however the following error is exactly the same behavior.

#2. Run the motor with no load: I disconnected the motor drive belt.
Re-tuned the servo and then started running it in linux cnc. Net result...
exactly the same behavior.

The higher the velocity, the more the error increases, and it appears to be
completely linear.


So it has something to do with some sort of lag in the servo driver. I'll
be emailing leadshine with my fingers crossed hoping they can help.

For what the servo is driving, seat of the pants says that the servo has
more torque then the old stepper did, so the machine should behave better
than it used to.

Thanks!
  Curt


On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 2:26 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 On Thursday 01 May 2014 13:42:08 Curtis Dutton did opine:

  Ok this makes sense. Thanks all for your explanations. I guess I just
  wasn't sure what was reasonable behavior and what wasnt.
 
  So if the motor is rated for 36v, and the drive is rated for 80 volts
  max. How much voltage can I get away with delivering to the drives
  without damaging equipment?
 
 
  Thanks,
 Curtis

 I, as an electronics type, would look at it from the motors rated currant
 viewpoint regardless of the family of motor.

 The motor more than likely has permanent magnet fields, and allowing more
 currant than about 1.25x the nameplate rating (based on my reading on the
 subject but I don't have an URL's to offer) gets you into a magnetic
 territory where the field magnets can be damaged by reducing their magnetic
 strength, and its an instant and permanent effect.

 The same effect applies to steppers, usually at currants above 1.25x
 nameplate.

 Applying an 80 volt supply to a 32 volt rated motor seems like it would be,
 if not currant limited in the driver, playing with fire.  I would have to
 assume they said that assuming a condition where it could spin freely,
 letting its counter EMF control the current and therefore the resultant
 magnetic field.

 This isn't normally a concern with steppers because the 10 to 30x over
 voltage is just normal standard operating voltage for them.  The drivers
 chopper limits on the currant are many times more important to the long
 term health of the motors.  I see no reason not to apply much the same
 thinking to PM field servo motors. Any difference is in where the magnets
 are, the steppers magnet is the rotor, where a brushed servo has the magnet
 in its stator.  But its still the strongest magnet we know how to build in
 production quantities.

 Now, in servo's I'll have to plead the big dummy because in brushless, hall
 effect commutated motors (BLDC?), it seem like a 3rd phase of drive to what
 is basically a 3 phase wound stepper motor frame assembly, meaning the
 rotor is the PM, would this not also apply?

 Or do they have something even more complex for the BLDC format?  I am
 not using them, so I've not spent a lot of time researching how they are
 built.

 My understanding is quite incomplete for those, and is not clarified a bit
 by having so many available mappings in the BLDC driver.  I suspect the
 reason for that boils down to a profound lack of a standard way of marking
 the motors leads as to phase  polarity, making the builder try every
 combination until he hits the right one that just happens to be correct for
 the wire hookup sequence he used?

 Is there a URL to read that would help me understand that Jon?

  On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com
 wrote:
   On 05/01/2014 06:22 AM, andy pugh wrote:
On 30 April 2014 19:37, Curtis Dutton curtd...@gmail.com wrote:
The motor is a 130W motor
1.5mm at around 12000mm/min.
   
That seems like a very small motor, and a very fast travel.
   
Is it possible that the motor is simply running out of steam?
  
   Generally when the drive runs out of available voltage
   the following error very suddenly grows without bound.
   So, you can be at 500mm/min with error of .01mm,
   and then at 550mm/min the error rises continuously
   because full voltage applied to the motor is only
   giving you 520mm/min, to give an example.
  
   So, having the following error increase only a modest bit
   at higher speeds may indicate the drive just has a
   constant time lag in the internal loop.  Or, it may
   be a torque limit, where the 130 W motor is nearly
   maxed out on current driving the axis at 12 m/min.
   Those conditions might cause a bounded error
   that increases roughly proportionally to velocity.
  
   Jon
  
  
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Re: [Emc-users] Leadshine ACS806 - Large f-error at higher speeds - what is acceptable?

[Curtis Dutton]

So the actual tuning software does not provide this parameter for high
speed adjustment. It has both low speed and high speed settings.


However there is a parameter set which can be downloaded and saved and the
high speed Ki is in there. I will alter the saved file and re-upload it to
try different values of Ki.




On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote:

 On Thu, 1 May 2014, Curtis Dutton wrote:

  Date: Thu, 1 May 2014 18:56:23 -0400
  From: Curtis Dutton curtd...@gmail.com
  Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
  emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 
  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Leadshine ACS806 - Large f-error at higher
 speeds -
  what is acceptable?
 
  Thanks to everybody for the information. If anything it helped me
  understand the nature of servos better as I've been sitting here tweaking
  the machine.
 
  I tried 2 experiments to see if I could get better results.
 
  #1. Give it 80Volts: I hooked the driver up to an 80v PS. The drive
 clearly
  had more power, however the following error is exactly the same behavior.
 
  #2. Run the motor with no load: I disconnected the motor drive belt.
  Re-tuned the servo and then started running it in linux cnc. Net
 result...
  exactly the same behavior.
 
  The higher the velocity, the more the error increases, and it appears to
 be
  completely linear.

 Can you add any I term to the drives position control loop?
 Enough I term should pull the following error to an average of 0
 on a long slew


 
 
  So it has something to do with some sort of lag in the servo driver. I'll
  be emailing leadshine with my fingers crossed hoping they can help.
 
  For what the servo is driving, seat of the pants says that the servo has
  more torque then the old stepper did, so the machine should behave better
  than it used to.
 
  Thanks!
   Curt
 
 
  On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 2:26 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
 
  On Thursday 01 May 2014 13:42:08 Curtis Dutton did opine:
 
  Ok this makes sense. Thanks all for your explanations. I guess I just
  wasn't sure what was reasonable behavior and what wasnt.
 
  So if the motor is rated for 36v, and the drive is rated for 80 volts
  max. How much voltage can I get away with delivering to the drives
  without damaging equipment?
 
 
  Thanks,
 Curtis
 
  I, as an electronics type, would look at it from the motors rated
 currant
  viewpoint regardless of the family of motor.
 
  The motor more than likely has permanent magnet fields, and allowing
 more
  currant than about 1.25x the nameplate rating (based on my reading on
 the
  subject but I don't have an URL's to offer) gets you into a magnetic
  territory where the field magnets can be damaged by reducing their
 magnetic
  strength, and its an instant and permanent effect.
 
  The same effect applies to steppers, usually at currants above 1.25x
  nameplate.
 
  Applying an 80 volt supply to a 32 volt rated motor seems like it would
 be,
  if not currant limited in the driver, playing with fire.  I would have
 to
  assume they said that assuming a condition where it could spin freely,
  letting its counter EMF control the current and therefore the resultant
  magnetic field.
 
  This isn't normally a concern with steppers because the 10 to 30x over
  voltage is just normal standard operating voltage for them.  The drivers
  chopper limits on the currant are many times more important to the long
  term health of the motors.  I see no reason not to apply much the same
  thinking to PM field servo motors. Any difference is in where the
 magnets
  are, the steppers magnet is the rotor, where a brushed servo has the
 magnet
  in its stator.  But its still the strongest magnet we know how to build
 in
  production quantities.
 
  Now, in servo's I'll have to plead the big dummy because in brushless,
 hall
  effect commutated motors (BLDC?), it seem like a 3rd phase of drive to
 what
  is basically a 3 phase wound stepper motor frame assembly, meaning the
  rotor is the PM, would this not also apply?
 
  Or do they have something even more complex for the BLDC format?  I am
  not using them, so I've not spent a lot of time researching how they are
  built.
 
  My understanding is quite incomplete for those, and is not clarified a
 bit
  by having so many available mappings in the BLDC driver.  I suspect the
  reason for that boils down to a profound lack of a standard way of
 marking
  the motors leads as to phase  polarity, making the builder try every
  combination until he hits the right one that just happens to be correct
 for
  the wire hookup sequence he used?
 
  Is there a URL to read that would help me understand that Jon?
 
  On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com
  wrote:
  On 05/01/2014 06:22 AM, andy pugh wrote:
  On 30 April 2014 19:37, Curtis Dutton curtd...@gmail.com wrote:
  The motor is a 130W motor

[Emc-users] Leadshine ACS806 - Large f-error at higher speeds - what is acceptable?

[Curtis Dutton]

I recently installed an ACS806 brushless drive along with a BLM57130
leadshine motor. The motor is a 130W motor with a 4000ppr encoder.

The controller is a step and direction type, with the encoder feedback
passed back through to linuxcnc via a mesa 5i25 and a 7i86s.. So I'm using
the drive to run the PID loop but having linuxcnc watch my f-error.

I've replaced a 500oz/in stepper motor with it on a medium sized cnc wood
shaping router.


I have tuned it up and it seems to be tuned well, and has a low following
error ( 0.01mm) at about 400mm/min and below.

The problem is that it seems to rapidly increase from there. 0.1mm around
3000mm/min and 1.5mm at around 12000mm/min.


Does anyone have experience with these drives? I've tried to utilize feed
forward but it doesn't seem to make a difference.



Being that this is my first servo drive, what would be a typical f-error
for various types of machinery?

Say for instance what would the following error be on a 1000in/min high
dollar cnc vmc.

What do people with home shop mills see?


Thanks,
   Curtis
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Re: [Emc-users] NSK vt150RAS1

[Curtis Dutton]

Ok so I did figure out that this is a megatorque motor with analog
resolvers on it.

It seems to be a 3 phase motor with A+, A-, B+, B-, C+, C connections.

I'm thinking about attempting to build a controller for this thing. The
problem is, I'm not sure how this operates compared to a standard 3 phase
AC motor with U,V,B windings?

The inside looks like a giant stepper motor but I'm fairly sure its a
servo and not a stepper.

Has anyone ever messed around with one of these?

Thanks,
   Curtis




On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Curtis Dutton curtd...@gmail.com wrote:

 I just picked up an NSK 6 4th axis.

 It has an air powered brake in it. It appears that it has something like a
 megatorque motor in it as it rotates very smoothly, without any gear
 sounds.

 Overall it is in fair shape and seems good and tight. My cheapo dial
 indicators didn't show any run-out or slop.


 My problem is that I have no driver. I need some specs for this device. If
 I can't find a driver, I'm fine with building one and using linuxcnc to do
 run the servo loop for me.

 It has a 1.5 plug with 24 pins, 2 air ports and one air silencer.



 If anybody know anything about this I'd be mighty glad to hear what you
 know.


 Thanks,
Curtis


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Re: [Emc-users] NSK vt150RAS1

[Curtis Dutton]

OOps I forgot to name all of the wires.

A+ - Motor winding phase A+
A-
B+
B-
C+
C-

REA - Resolver phase A excitation signal
REB - Resolver phase B excitation signal
REC - Resolver phase C excitation signal
REO - Resolver excitation signal common


I know that there is only continuity between A+ and A-, B+ and B- and C+
and C- respectively.


On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Florian Rist fr...@fs.tum.de wrote:

 Hi Curti

  It seems to be a 3 phase motor with A+, A-, B+, B-, C+, C connections.

 Hmm, in there current data sheets they call the encoder signals lines
 A+, B+, C+ and the motor windings U, V, W.

 Flo


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Re: [Emc-users] NSK vt150RAS1

[Curtis Dutton]

Do you think im better of trying to get ahold of a compatible megatorque
driver. Im seeing them around on ebay for what looks like 400 - 500.
On Fri, 26 Jul 2013, Curtis Dutton wrote:

 Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2013 18:00:39 -0400
 From: Curtis Dutton curtd...@gmail.com
 Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: [Emc-users] NSK vt150RAS1

 I just picked up an NSK 6 4th axis.

 It has an air powered brake in it. It appears that it has something like a
 megatorque motor in it as it rotates very smoothly, without any gear
 sounds.

 Overall it is in fair shape and seems good and tight. My cheapo dial
 indicators didn't show any run-out or slop.


 My problem is that I have no driver. I need some specs for this device. If
 I can't find a driver, I'm fine with building one and using linuxcnc to do
 run the servo loop for me.

 It has a 1.5 plug with 24 pins, 2 air ports and one air silencer.



 If anybody know anything about this I'd be mighty glad to hear what you
 know.


 Thanks,
   Curtis

Pretty sure this is a variable reluctance servo motor (we had one here for a
while, complete with three phase resolver.)

They require rather odd drive circuits (the windings go between the upper
and
lower Hbridge switches)



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[Emc-users] NSK vt150RAS1

[Curtis Dutton]

I just picked up an NSK 6 4th axis.

It has an air powered brake in it. It appears that it has something like a
megatorque motor in it as it rotates very smoothly, without any gear
sounds.

Overall it is in fair shape and seems good and tight. My cheapo dial
indicators didn't show any run-out or slop.


My problem is that I have no driver. I need some specs for this device. If
I can't find a driver, I'm fine with building one and using linuxcnc to do
run the servo loop for me.

It has a 1.5 plug with 24 pins, 2 air ports and one air silencer.



If anybody know anything about this I'd be mighty glad to hear what you
know.


Thanks,
   Curtis
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Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 5i25 with Generic stepper board

[Curtis Dutton]

Thanks all for you help. I was able to configure this fairly easily. The
only issue I had was initially I was setting the maxaccel and maxvel values
on the hardware steppers. This was causing joint following errors. I found
that if I would set the following error (FERROR) absurdly high like 100 it
would function however the machine would overshoot and then reverse
direction to come back to the correct spot. This was only happening during
a high speed jog but seemed to function fine during actual execution of a
program.

I eventually tracked down a post that mentioned that LinuxCNC controls
these and that it doesn't need to be set. (It was causing a bit of a feed
back loop) So I set them to 0 and then things started working very well.

The performance of the board is of course highly accurate compared to
software stepping. I was able to ramp up acceleration about 50% and max
velocities about 20% due to the smooth and continuous pulse train that the
5i25 outputs.

Attached are the config files I came up with for anyone else looking for
another example on how to set their own 5i25 up

Thanks,
   Curt

On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 12:53 AM, Chris Morley
chrisinnana...@hotmail.comwrote:


 Here is a hand built XML file for 5i25 with prob_rfx2 firmware.

 You need to add the folder '5i25' to /lib/firmware/hm2
 then add the XML file to that folder.
 You will need administer privileges to do this.

 one way is to open a terminal and typesudo nautilus
 and then your password.

 after that when you run PNCconf you will be able to select
 the 5i25 board and the prob_rfx2 firmware.

  Chris M
 From: chrisinnana...@hotmail.com
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: RE: [Emc-users] Mesa 5i25 with Generic stepper board
 Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 10:56:38 +








  I'm a bit shaky on how to configure this as I just started studying it
 last
  night, however it appears to me that if I created a prob_rfx2.xml file,
  that I could utilize
  pncconf to build my emc2 configuration.
 
  I have the prob_rfx2.pin file that describes all of the pins that the
  firmware defines.
 
 
  Am I on the right track here? Also are there any references or tips that
  anyone is aware of to help me along?
 
  I'm linux savvy and a programmer, so any work that could be reusable I'd
  like to share and provide for others that may follow down this path.
 
 


 I took a look at the firmware you quoted.

 Yes if you make an XML file PNCconf will help you configure it.

 I'll try to find time to build one this weekend.



 Chris M





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cnc.hal
Description: Binary data


cnc.ini
Description: Binary data
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Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 5i25 with Generic stepper board

[Curtis Dutton]

I'll report back with what I learn.

On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 1:12 PM, Stephen Dubovsky smdubov...@gmail.comwrote:

 Curt,
 If you could take notes, I'll be in a similar boat soon.  I just got my
 5i25 from mesa and am just waiting to pickup a spare computer from a friend
 to play with it.  I don't want to run emc2.5 on the working machine yet.
 If I can get it working I'll put them in all 3 PCs.  I bought a 7i76 to
 play with too to get started (since it sounds like that is directly
 supported by pncconf), but two of the machines don't need it.

 Stephen

 On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Curtis Dutton curtd...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  I recently received my new 5i25 card. I'm using it to replace software
  stepping on a 3 Axis machine.
 
  It is very basic,
 
  3 stepper drivers.
  1 probe in port.
  3 sets of limit/home switches where each set is shared for an axis and
 the
  limit switches are used for homing as well.
 
 
 
  I elected to use the prob_rfx2 firmware version which is meant for the
  generic breakout board.
 
  The idea was to install the 5i25, hook my parallel cable from the printer
  port into the 5i25 and set up a new emc2 config.
 
 
  I'm a bit shaky on how to configure this as I just started studying it
 last
  night, however it appears to me that if I created a prob_rfx2.xml file,
  that I could utilize
  pncconf to build my emc2 configuration.
 
  I have the prob_rfx2.pin file that describes all of the pins that the
  firmware defines.
 
 
  Am I on the right track here? Also are there any references or tips that
  anyone is aware of to help me along?
 
  I'm linux savvy and a programmer, so any work that could be reusable I'd
  like to share and provide for others that may follow down this path.
 
 
  Thanks,
  Curt
 
 
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