Re: [Emc-users] Making taper lock hubs

2017-03-28 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Tuesday 28 March 2017 10:06:12 John Kasunich wrote:

> I can't see how lathe alignment could affect your angle.  If you
> turned the OD running forwards with the cutting tool in front and
> bored the ID running in reverse with the cutting tool in back, then
> yes.  But if both were done with the spindle going forward then the
> tip of the cutting tool is in exactly the same place and should be
> moving at exactly the same angle.
>
> I must say that if I was doing this I probably would program both the
> ID and OD tapers _exactly_ the same, even if that means one of them is
> longer than necessary and wastes a bit of time cutting air.  When you
> change the Z length you leave room for errors to creep in.
>
> I suspect that delta-x divided by delta-z is not the same in your ID
> program vs. your OD program.

For OD:
delta x=0.0993758989161300168, delta z=0.735"
the delta x is TAN[7.7]*0.735

For ID:
delta x=0.135205304647795941, delta z=1."
The delta x is TAN[7.7]

looks correct, is it not?

I need to go to the USPO & send a box of childrens books to a grand niece 
with a house full of toddlers.  Its called Honeydoo's.

> On Tue, Mar 28, 2017, at 09:54 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Monday 27 March 2017 03:56:53 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Monday 27 March 2017 00:17:19 Erik Christiansen wrote:
> > > > On 26.03.17 18:53, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > But is 7 the correct factor? It should be fairly easy to jack
> > > > > it back out.
> > > >
> > > > Gene, I've never made one of them, but looking here:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t=j==s=web=
> > > >8 d=
> > > > 0ahUKEwiE6q-q5PXSAhWGKWMKHeZIAf0QFgg-MAc=http%3A%2F%2Funiver
> > > >salb ear
> > > > ings.com.au%2Fdownload-subproducts%2Ftaperlock-bushes=AFQjCN
> > > >GOFI vAU jPQ1JccxaHkdEjC0hT5oA
> > > >
> > > > the first bush in the table seems to be:
> > > >
> > > > atan((35.2 - 33.7)/11.1) = 7.7° included, near as dammit.
> >
> > So I did the taper turn at TAN[7.7]*total z len which was 0.735"
> >
> > Finished (except for jacking holes) hub looks great. Set it aside
> > for now.
> >
> > Chuck pulley and hammer around for concentricity etc, spins good and
> > true.  Edit code to do the tapered bore, but change for a full inch
> > of Z motion, so I used the TAN[7.7] raw as the inner factor to sub
> > from the bore at z left end. Using one of those cheap $20 a kit of
> > cemented carbide boring bars. Re-shapened with a diamond disk in a
> > dremel. Get it bored big enough (and bore looks like shit, tool is
> > skipping) to start checking fit using the hub I just made at what
> > was supposed to be the same angle.  Bored angle too steep by quite a
> > bit. Hub goes in about half way, jams on tip of hub and can be
> > rocked around. Its not trashed yet, but this is where I start
> > fiddling with bar sharpening angles, widening the hole at the deep
> > end until it fits. And changing the bar to a monster I made years
> > ago, a 5/8" diameter bar about 10" long I had made a groove in the
> > side of to hold a small bar that seriously needed some stiffening.
> > Takes std diamond pattern chips. Then gradually reduce the x
> > decrement until it fits.
> >
> > I don't believe the spindle head on this lathe has ever aligned with
> > the z motion of the carriage. I replaced the whole head a year ago
> > after refitting a new head with all metal gears, and while I cleaned
> > the paint overspray off the mating surfaces on its bottom, I think
> > this one is sitting even more out of alignment. At one time years
> > ago I had wasted a piece of cold roll and a few days adding an
> > offset per inch factor to x until it was turning a decent cylinder,
> > and should have painted it on the monitor, as its in the area of 7
> > thou per inch, but that was on the OEM head assembly.  Cheap, mumble
> > mumble, Chinese crap.
> >
> > Andway, change the bar to the big boy, then start shaving the angle
> > is todays project.  After I go to the store and get stuff for
> > breakfast and fix it for us.
> >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> > 
> >-- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Check out the

Re: [Emc-users] Making taper lock hubs

2017-03-28 Thread John Kasunich 
I can't see how lathe alignment could affect your angle.  If you turned the OD 
running forwards with the cutting tool in front and bored the ID running in 
reverse with the cutting tool in back, then yes.  But if both were done with 
the spindle going forward then the tip of the cutting tool is in exactly the 
same place and should be moving at exactly the same angle.

I must say that if I was doing this I probably would program both the ID and OD 
tapers _exactly_ the same, even if that means one of them is longer than 
necessary and wastes a bit of time cutting air.  When you change the Z length 
you leave room for errors to creep in.

I suspect that delta-x divided by delta-z is not the same in your ID program 
vs. your OD program.



On Tue, Mar 28, 2017, at 09:54 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Monday 27 March 2017 03:56:53 Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
> > On Monday 27 March 2017 00:17:19 Erik Christiansen wrote:
> > > On 26.03.17 18:53, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > But is 7 the correct factor? It should be fairly easy to jack it
> > > > back out.
> > >
> > > Gene, I've never made one of them, but looking here:
> > >
> > > http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t=j==s=web=8
> > >d=
> > > 0ahUKEwiE6q-q5PXSAhWGKWMKHeZIAf0QFgg-MAc=http%3A%2F%2Funiversalb
> > >ear
> > > ings.com.au%2Fdownload-subproducts%2Ftaperlock-bushes=AFQjCNGOFI
> > >vAU jPQ1JccxaHkdEjC0hT5oA
> > >
> > > the first bush in the table seems to be:
> > >
> > > atan((35.2 - 33.7)/11.1) = 7.7° included, near as dammit.
> >
> So I did the taper turn at TAN[7.7]*total z len which was 0.735"
> 
> Finished (except for jacking holes) hub looks great. Set it aside for 
> now.
> 
> Chuck pulley and hammer around for concentricity etc, spins good and 
> true.  Edit code to do the tapered bore, but change for a full inch of Z 
> motion, so I used the TAN[7.7] raw as the inner factor to sub from the 
> bore at z left end. Using one of those cheap $20 a kit of cemented 
> carbide boring bars. Re-shapened with a diamond disk in a dremel. Get it 
> bored big enough (and bore looks like shit, tool is skipping) to start 
> checking fit using the hub I just made at what was supposed to be the 
> same angle.  Bored angle too steep by quite a bit. Hub goes in about 
> half way, jams on tip of hub and can be rocked around. Its not trashed 
> yet, but this is where I start fiddling with bar sharpening angles, 
> widening the hole at the deep end until it fits. And changing the bar to 
> a monster I made years ago, a 5/8" diameter bar about 10" long I had 
> made a groove in the side of to hold a small bar that seriously needed 
> some stiffening. Takes std diamond pattern chips. Then gradually reduce 
> the x decrement until it fits.
> 
> I don't believe the spindle head on this lathe has ever aligned with the 
> z motion of the carriage. I replaced the whole head a year ago after 
> refitting a new head with all metal gears, and while I cleaned the paint 
> overspray off the mating surfaces on its bottom, I think this one is 
> sitting even more out of alignment. At one time years ago I had wasted a 
> piece of cold roll and a few days adding an offset per inch factor to x 
> until it was turning a decent cylinder, and should have painted it on 
> the monitor, as its in the area of 7 thou per inch, but that was on the 
> OEM head assembly.  Cheap, mumble mumble, Chinese crap.
> 
> Andway, change the bar to the big boy, then start shaving the angle is 
> todays project.  After I go to the store and get stuff for breakfast and 
> fix it for us.
> 
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> 
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


-- 
  John Kasunich
  jmkasun...@fastmail.fm

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Re: [Emc-users] Making taper lock hubs

2017-03-28 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Monday 27 March 2017 03:56:53 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Monday 27 March 2017 00:17:19 Erik Christiansen wrote:
> > On 26.03.17 18:53, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > But is 7 the correct factor? It should be fairly easy to jack it
> > > back out.
> >
> > Gene, I've never made one of them, but looking here:
> >
> > http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t=j==s=web=8
> >d=
> > 0ahUKEwiE6q-q5PXSAhWGKWMKHeZIAf0QFgg-MAc=http%3A%2F%2Funiversalb
> >ear
> > ings.com.au%2Fdownload-subproducts%2Ftaperlock-bushes=AFQjCNGOFI
> >vAU jPQ1JccxaHkdEjC0hT5oA
> >
> > the first bush in the table seems to be:
> >
> > atan((35.2 - 33.7)/11.1) = 7.7° included, near as dammit.
>
So I did the taper turn at TAN[7.7]*total z len which was 0.735"

Finished (except for jacking holes) hub looks great. Set it aside for 
now.

Chuck pulley and hammer around for concentricity etc, spins good and 
true.  Edit code to do the tapered bore, but change for a full inch of Z 
motion, so I used the TAN[7.7] raw as the inner factor to sub from the 
bore at z left end. Using one of those cheap $20 a kit of cemented 
carbide boring bars. Re-shapened with a diamond disk in a dremel. Get it 
bored big enough (and bore looks like shit, tool is skipping) to start 
checking fit using the hub I just made at what was supposed to be the 
same angle.  Bored angle too steep by quite a bit. Hub goes in about 
half way, jams on tip of hub and can be rocked around. Its not trashed 
yet, but this is where I start fiddling with bar sharpening angles, 
widening the hole at the deep end until it fits. And changing the bar to 
a monster I made years ago, a 5/8" diameter bar about 10" long I had 
made a groove in the side of to hold a small bar that seriously needed 
some stiffening. Takes std diamond pattern chips. Then gradually reduce 
the x decrement until it fits.

I don't believe the spindle head on this lathe has ever aligned with the 
z motion of the carriage. I replaced the whole head a year ago after 
refitting a new head with all metal gears, and while I cleaned the paint 
overspray off the mating surfaces on its bottom, I think this one is 
sitting even more out of alignment. At one time years ago I had wasted a 
piece of cold roll and a few days adding an offset per inch factor to x 
until it was turning a decent cylinder, and should have painted it on 
the monitor, as its in the area of 7 thou per inch, but that was on the 
OEM head assembly.  Cheap, mumble mumble, Chinese crap.

Andway, change the bar to the big boy, then start shaving the angle is 
todays project.  After I go to the store and get stuff for breakfast and 
fix it for us.

> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Making taper lock hubs

2017-03-27 Thread andy pugh 
On 27 March 2017 at 05:17, Erik Christiansen  wrote:
> I can see why you're making them. There's not much in them, and with
> prices being mostly loony if the goods don't come from China, it's well
> worthwhile.

Actually, taper-lock bushes are surprisingly reasonably-priced.
https://www.bearingboys.co.uk/1008-Taper-Bushes-2588-c

I made my own 3-step taperlock pulley a while ago, as I needed
specific diameters. But I bought the bush.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rwoD2vZUl0

The tip there is that if you mill the half-holes at tapping-size you
can use the extraction hole in an commercial bush to guide the tap hen
tapping your clamping holes.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Making taper lock hubs

2017-03-27 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Monday 27 March 2017 00:17:19 Erik Christiansen wrote:

> On 26.03.17 18:53, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > But is 7 the correct factor? It should be fairly easy to jack it
> > back out.
>
> Gene, I've never made one of them, but looking here:
>
> http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t=j==s=web=8=
>0ahUKEwiE6q-q5PXSAhWGKWMKHeZIAf0QFgg-MAc=http%3A%2F%2Funiversalbear
>ings.com.au%2Fdownload-subproducts%2Ftaperlock-bushes=AFQjCNGOFIvAU
>jPQ1JccxaHkdEjC0hT5oA
>
> the first bush in the table seems to be:
>
> atan((35.2 - 33.7)/11.1) = 7.7° included, near as dammit.
>
A bit steeper than my 7 degrees. I don'r recall now, although the code 
should still be in the nc_files directory on TLM, the angle or how I 
calculated it then as thats pushing a decade back up the log.

> They have a threaded half-hole on the perimeter, for a jacking screw,
> so I figure that 8-ish degrees will not fall out as soon as you loosen
> the screws.

I've looked at those and wondered if that threaded half hole was enough 
to drive it tight.  Thats also considerable thicker metal there, meaning 
it better fit very good because the crush is limited. So in the three 
I've made, Z on the sheldon is made with the external flange for the 
push/pull. 3 bolt version. Figured I had to as that 25x5 screw came with 
the driving end turned down to 10mm! I expected at least 14mm, but the 
thrust bearing was of a similar bore.  Its also shloppy, 7 thou 
backlash, 5.5 of which is in the (mumble) thrust bearing. Fairly easy to 
get to, I intend to shim that for some preload before I do serious work 
with it.

Doing it with the flange, I can leave thinner metal, which makes a good 
crush easier to get. I'll do this hub, then the pulley to the same 
angle, smack them together good, take it to the mill and locate the 
center of the hub, then drill the 6 holes, 3 with screw cleance, and 3 
threaded for the screw but only the 3 with clearance get drilled by the 
tap drill into the pulley, and all 6 rigidly tapped. Due to a limited 
space between pulley face and flange I will probably have to eject it 
and finish tapping the flange for the jack screws.  Then EDM the taper 
into 4 petals for an easy done death crush. Leaving room for the 
woodruff key internal as I don't know exactly where in the bore that key 
winds up being.  The shaft can move within the pulleys and bearings some 
as its actual lengthwise placement is controlled by the right hand 
bearing boss, the 4 step pulley rides the right face, and this pulley 
rides the left face, effectively controlling the end play. A fibrous 
washer sits between the pulleys and the bearing boss. Those look to be 
in decent condition so they'll get cleaned and reused.

The lower shaft of this is also spinning in the same bronze, but doesn't 
seem to be heating even when the vfd is up to 150 hz! It turns at a 
fixed ratio from the motor, perhaps 750-850 revs when the vfd is 
cranked.  The upper shaft has much more radial loading, and dependent on 
the pulley sheave the intermediate drive belt is in, could be doing up 
to nearly 3k revs. So that one gets the Koyo needle roller bearings for 
sure.

That ought to out-last me. I'm not done adjusting the shimming of the 
spindle bearings. In the final fit, and at a decent speed with fresh 10w 
in the oilers, I'd like to see only maybe 5F heating with it running on 
the hydrodynamic oil film.  In backgear below 100 revs, that will leave 
a measurable slop.  Currently it runs up about 20F on top of the bearing 
caps, and there is no measurable slop. I can see perhaps .0002" of 
springy wiggle at the spindle flange with a 3 foot pipe in the chuck and 
me pushing, pulling, or lifting on the far end of the pipe.  Not bad for 
a machine close to 70 yo. :)

Did I mention I love bronze spindle bushings? :) Unlike ball or timkins, 
much easier adjusted for wear, and these don't seem to be worn a bit. 
Some minor polishing, but plastigage can't see it.  This one has the 
ball mounted right foot, and some Navy stamps on the back of the bed.

> So long as both parts are made with the same topslide angle setting, I
> wouldn't fuss about 7° or 9°, or something round about close to that.
> If the shaft isn't too shiny, and your bush bore isn't too polished,
> then there's probably no need to go for the smallest angle (for
> tightest grip), and another degree or two (included) will be a bit
> easier to dismantle.

The shaft is well polished, and HARDENED and I'll have 3 jack screws, so 
the 7 degrees sounds about right. Tightening these is a matter of going 
around, hitting each screw in turn maybe 20 times before they're really 
tight.  Jacking is the same, moveing each screw maybe 10 degrees as you 
go around them the first time, so you don't mushroom the point of the 
screw.  Don't force it going either way and the screws if 8.8 or better, 
will last forever. TV transmitters, if air cooled, make one familiar 
with the care and feeding of a taperlock because on the GE's the pulley 
ratio get

Re: [Emc-users] Making taper lock hubs

2017-03-26 Thread Erik Christiansen 
On 26.03.17 18:53, Gene Heskett wrote:
> But is 7 the correct factor? It should be fairly easy to jack it back
> out.

Gene, I've never made one of them, but looking here:

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t=j==s=web=8=0ahUKEwiE6q-q5PXSAhWGKWMKHeZIAf0QFgg-MAc=http%3A%2F%2Funiversalbearings.com.au%2Fdownload-subproducts%2Ftaperlock-bushes=AFQjCNGOFIvAUjPQ1JccxaHkdEjC0hT5oA

the first bush in the table seems to be:

atan((35.2 - 33.7)/11.1) = 7.7° included, near as dammit.

They have a threaded half-hole on the perimeter, for a jacking screw,
so I figure that 8-ish degrees will not fall out as soon as you loosen
the screws.

So long as both parts are made with the same topslide angle setting, I
wouldn't fuss about 7° or 9°, or something round about close to that.
If the shaft isn't too shiny, and your bush bore isn't too polished,
then there's probably no need to go for the smallest angle (for tightest
grip), and another degree or two (included) will be a bit easier to
dismantle.

I can see why you're making them. There's not much in them, and with
prices being mostly loony if the goods don't come from China, it's well
worthwhile.

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] Making taper lock hubs

2017-03-26 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Sunday 26 March 2017 17:15:13 Marcus Bowman wrote:

> On 26 Mar 2017, at 21:15, Ken Strauss wrote:
> > Yes but for small angles sin() and tan() are almost identical.
> > Sin(7)=0.1219 and tan(7)=0.1228
>
> Yes; that's true. Is it not the half-angle anyway; so Tan 3.5 deg ?
> Or did I misinterpret the taper?
>
> Marcus
>
I believe if the lathe is in radius mode yes, but its in diameter mode 
ATM. The keyphrase in the machinery handbook is "included angle". Which 
would be 3.5 degrees off the axis of rotation, and correct for radius 
mode. I think...

> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Marcus Bowman [mailto:marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk]
> >> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 3:53 PM
> >> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Making taper lock hubs
> >>
> >> Is the tangent of the angle not more useful? That uses the straight
> >> length instead of the hypotenuse (along the tapered face).
> >> Opposite over adjacent, rather than opposite over hypotenuse.
> >>
> >> Marcus
> >>
> >> On 26 Mar 2017, at 19:48, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> Greetings everybody;
> >>>
> >>> As I read the machinists hand book, tapers such as this mean the
> >>> "included" angle, not the angle of just one side of a cone.
> >>>
> >>> So, I've read, where I don't recall, that a taper lock hub is 7
> >>> degrees of taper. It doesn't self eject, but also does not need a
> >>> lot of jacking force to unlock it.  Or is that magic angle
> >>> different, not 7
> >
> > degrees?
> >
> >>> The sin(7)=0.121869343405147462, which I interpret as meaning if
> >>> the tool travels an inch, the diameter change is
> >>> 0.121869343405147462.
> >>>
> >>> But the tool is moving only .735" from one end of the taper to the
> >>> other, so the additive value for the big end of the taper is then
> >>> .735*0.121869343405147462=0.0895739674027833847.  Since that is
> >>> better than angstrom accuracy, round it down to 4 or 5 digits
> >>> right of the decimal makes sense since I'm not carving a new
> >>> Hubble mirror here.
> >>>
> >>> So, bore is .876" (I overshot 7/8" a red one) and I'd like the
> >>> taper hub wall to be about 1/16" thick at the small end=1.".
> >>> Then the diameter at the flange, .735" to the left of that 1"
> >>> point, would 1.08957".
> >>>
> >>> Correct?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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Re: [Emc-users] Making taper lock hubs

2017-03-26 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Sunday 26 March 2017 16:15:33 Ken Strauss wrote:

> Yes but for small angles sin() and tan() are almost identical.
> Sin(7)=0.1219 and tan(7)=0.1228
>
I knew it was close, Ken but thats enough to let it wobble a bit, so I'll 
use the tan(7).  But is 7 the correct factor? It should be fairly easy 
to jack it back out.

Thanks, Ken.

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Marcus Bowman [mailto:marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk]
> > Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 3:53 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Making taper lock hubs
> >
> > Is the tangent of the angle not more useful? That uses the straight
> > length instead of the hypotenuse (along the tapered face).
> > Opposite over adjacent, rather than opposite over hypotenuse.
> >
> > Marcus
> >
> > On 26 Mar 2017, at 19:48, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > Greetings everybody;
> > >
> > > As I read the machinists hand book, tapers such as this mean the
> > > "included" angle, not the angle of just one side of a cone.
> > >
> > > So, I've read, where I don't recall, that a taper lock hub is 7
> > > degrees of taper. It doesn't self eject, but also does not need a
> > > lot of jacking force to unlock it.  Or is that magic angle
> > > different, not 7
>
> degrees?
>
> > > The sin(7)=0.121869343405147462, which I interpret as meaning if
> > > the tool travels an inch, the diameter change is
> > > 0.121869343405147462.
> > >
> > > But the tool is moving only .735" from one end of the taper to the
> > > other, so the additive value for the big end of the taper is then
> > > .735*0.121869343405147462=0.0895739674027833847.  Since that is
> > > better than angstrom accuracy, round it down to 4 or 5 digits
> > > right of the decimal makes sense since I'm not carving a new
> > > Hubble mirror here.
> > >
> > > So, bore is .876" (I overshot 7/8" a red one) and I'd like the
> > > taper hub wall to be about 1/16" thick at the small end=1.".
> > > Then the diameter at the flange, .735" to the left of that 1"
> > > point, would 1.08957".
> > >
> > > Correct?
> > >
> > > Thanks. I might get this taper thing understood yet.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > > --
> > > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > > Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
> > >
> > > --
> > >  Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the
> > > world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org!
> > > http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> --
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>
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>

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Re: [Emc-users] Making taper lock hubs

2017-03-26 Thread Gene Heskett 
On Sunday 26 March 2017 15:53:03 Marcus Bowman wrote:

> Is the tangent of the angle not more useful? That uses the straight
> length instead of the hypotenuse (along the tapered face). Opposite
> over adjacent, rather than opposite over hypotenuse.
>
> Marcus

You're right I believe Marcus, makes perfect sense. That would make the 
diameter change of 7 degrees in a .735" run=0.090246652" or in this case 
to add to that end of the value being decremented.  Got it, thanks 
Marcus.  Now I need to paint that on the wall so I can remember it at my 
years. :(

I'll just invert that to machine the pulley.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Making taper lock hubs

2017-03-26 Thread Andy Pugh 


> On 26 Mar 2017, at 21:15, Ken Strauss  wrote:
> 
> es but for small angles sin() and tan() are almost identical. Sin(7)=0.1219
> and tan(7)=0.1228

I recently discovered that I have been cutting BR30 specials wrong. 
Taper of all that type is 7/24. 
I have been using half of atan(7/24) when I should have been using the atan of 
half of 7/24. Makes about .14mm difference on a 30 size taper. 
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Re: [Emc-users] Making taper lock hubs

2017-03-26 Thread Marcus Bowman 

On 26 Mar 2017, at 21:15, Ken Strauss wrote:

> Yes but for small angles sin() and tan() are almost identical. Sin(7)=0.1219
> and tan(7)=0.1228

Yes; that's true. Is it not the half-angle anyway; so Tan 3.5 deg ?
Or did I misinterpret the taper?

Marcus

> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Marcus Bowman [mailto:marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk]
>> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 3:53 PM
>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Making taper lock hubs
>> 
>> Is the tangent of the angle not more useful? That uses the straight length
>> instead of the hypotenuse (along the tapered face).
>> Opposite over adjacent, rather than opposite over hypotenuse.
>> 
>> Marcus
>> 
>> 
>> On 26 Mar 2017, at 19:48, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> 
>>> Greetings everybody;
>>> 
>>> As I read the machinists hand book, tapers such as this mean the
>>> "included" angle, not the angle of just one side of a cone.
>>> 
>>> So, I've read, where I don't recall, that a taper lock hub is 7
>>> degrees of taper. It doesn't self eject, but also does not need a lot
>>> of jacking force to unlock it.  Or is that magic angle different, not 7
> degrees?
>>> 
>>> The sin(7)=0.121869343405147462, which I interpret as meaning if the
>>> tool travels an inch, the diameter change is 0.121869343405147462.
>>> 
>>> But the tool is moving only .735" from one end of the taper to the
>>> other, so the additive value for the big end of the taper is then
>>> .735*0.121869343405147462=0.0895739674027833847.  Since that is better
>>> than angstrom accuracy, round it down to 4 or 5 digits right of the
>>> decimal makes sense since I'm not carving a new Hubble mirror here.
>>> 
>>> So, bore is .876" (I overshot 7/8" a red one) and I'd like the taper
>>> hub wall to be about 1/16" thick at the small end=1.". Then the
>>> diameter at the flange, .735" to the left of that 1" point, would
>>> 1.08957".
>>> 
>>> Correct?
>>> 
>>> Thanks. I might get this taper thing understood yet.
>>> 
>>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>>> --
>>> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>>> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
>>> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
>>> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>>> 
>>> --
>>>  Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
>>> most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> ___
>>> Emc-users mailing list
>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> --
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>> tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Making taper lock hubs

2017-03-26 Thread Ken Strauss 
Yes but for small angles sin() and tan() are almost identical. Sin(7)=0.1219
and tan(7)=0.1228

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus Bowman [mailto:marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk]
> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 3:53 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Making taper lock hubs
>
> Is the tangent of the angle not more useful? That uses the straight length
> instead of the hypotenuse (along the tapered face).
> Opposite over adjacent, rather than opposite over hypotenuse.
>
> Marcus
>
>
> On 26 Mar 2017, at 19:48, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> > Greetings everybody;
> >
> > As I read the machinists hand book, tapers such as this mean the
> > "included" angle, not the angle of just one side of a cone.
> >
> > So, I've read, where I don't recall, that a taper lock hub is 7
> > degrees of taper. It doesn't self eject, but also does not need a lot
> > of jacking force to unlock it.  Or is that magic angle different, not 7
degrees?
> >
> > The sin(7)=0.121869343405147462, which I interpret as meaning if the
> > tool travels an inch, the diameter change is 0.121869343405147462.
> >
> > But the tool is moving only .735" from one end of the taper to the
> > other, so the additive value for the big end of the taper is then
> > .735*0.121869343405147462=0.0895739674027833847.  Since that is better
> > than angstrom accuracy, round it down to 4 or 5 digits right of the
> > decimal makes sense since I'm not carving a new Hubble mirror here.
> >
> > So, bore is .876" (I overshot 7/8" a red one) and I'd like the taper
> > hub wall to be about 1/16" thick at the small end=1.". Then the
> > diameter at the flange, .735" to the left of that 1" point, would
> > 1.08957".
> >
> > Correct?
> >
> > Thanks. I might get this taper thing understood yet.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
> >
> > --
> >  Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Making taper lock hubs

2017-03-26 Thread Marcus Bowman 
Is the tangent of the angle not more useful? That uses the straight length 
instead of the hypotenuse (along the tapered face).
Opposite over adjacent, rather than opposite over hypotenuse.

Marcus


On 26 Mar 2017, at 19:48, Gene Heskett wrote:

> Greetings everybody;
> 
> As I read the machinists hand book, tapers such as this mean 
> the "included" angle, not the angle of just one side of a cone.
> 
> So, I've read, where I don't recall, that a taper lock hub is 7 degrees 
> of taper. It doesn't self eject, but also does not need a lot of jacking 
> force to unlock it.  Or is that magic angle different, not 7 degrees?
> 
> The sin(7)=0.121869343405147462, which I interpret as meaning if the tool 
> travels an inch, the diameter change is 0.121869343405147462.
> 
> But the tool is moving only .735" from one end of the taper to the other, 
> so the additive value for the big end of the taper is 
> then .735*0.121869343405147462=0.0895739674027833847.  Since that is 
> better than angstrom accuracy, round it down to 4 or 5 digits right of 
> the decimal makes sense since I'm not carving a new Hubble mirror here.
> 
> So, bore is .876" (I overshot 7/8" a red one)
> and I'd like the taper hub wall to be about 1/16" thick at the small 
> end=1.". Then the diameter at the flange, .735" to the left of that 
> 1" point, would 1.08957".
> 
> Correct?
> 
> Thanks. I might get this taper thing understood yet.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


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[Emc-users] Making taper lock hubs

2017-03-26 Thread Gene Heskett 
Greetings everybody;

As I read the machinists hand book, tapers such as this mean 
the "included" angle, not the angle of just one side of a cone.

So, I've read, where I don't recall, that a taper lock hub is 7 degrees 
of taper. It doesn't self eject, but also does not need a lot of jacking 
force to unlock it.  Or is that magic angle different, not 7 degrees?

The sin(7)=0.121869343405147462, which I interpret as meaning if the tool 
travels an inch, the diameter change is 0.121869343405147462.

But the tool is moving only .735" from one end of the taper to the other, 
so the additive value for the big end of the taper is 
then .735*0.121869343405147462=0.0895739674027833847.  Since that is 
better than angstrom accuracy, round it down to 4 or 5 digits right of 
the decimal makes sense since I'm not carving a new Hubble mirror here.

So, bore is .876" (I overshot 7/8" a red one)
and I'd like the taper hub wall to be about 1/16" thick at the small 
end=1.". Then the diameter at the flange, .735" to the left of that 
1" point, would 1.08957".

Correct?

Thanks. I might get this taper thing understood yet.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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