Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[MC Cason via Emc-users]

  3 weeks ago, I asked Sherwin Williams about mixing some industrial 
paint to match a off-white control cabinet that I am modifying. They 
said that it would be no problem.  The only issue is that I need a small 
amount for touchup, less than a pint, and their minimum is a gallon.  I 
was hoping to get a quart, but no.


  In my case, it's going to be far cheaper to repaint the entire 
outside of the cabinet with a quart of Rust-Oleum oil based white from 
Lowes.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Rust-Oleum-Professional-White-Semi-gloss-Oil-based-Enamel-Interior-Exterior-Paint-Actual-Net-Contents-32-fl-oz/3078183

---Mark


On 6/18/19 11:13 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
Oh well.   I think it is still true that Sherwin William will mix oil 
paint to a scanned color.

At least they were a few months ago.
Dave




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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Dave Cole]

Oh well.   I think it is still true that Sherwin William will mix oil 
paint to a scanned color.

At least they were a few months ago.
Dave

On 6/18/2019 11:23 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:

Hi Dave,
This was months ago that I went looking.  For some reason Gene responded to
"On Sunday 31 March 2019 10:20:38 pm John Dammeyer wrote:"

The CNC cabinet colour matches the Mill depending on the light.

  I'm still having issues with US Digital Encoders verse CUI AMT112 series 
encoder.  I've finished assembling my other two STMBL servo drives but haven't 
had time to connect the DC motor to them to test if they also lose position 
like the HP_UHU drives do.

John



-Original Message-
From: Dave Cole [mailto:linuxcncro...@gmail.com]
Sent: June-18-19 7:56 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

On 6/16/2019 9:47 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

I have a few years to go but for some reason still feeling growly.
Went looking for some tintable alkyd enamel paint today to match the
mill so I could paint the CNC cabinet.  What a wasted day.  No one
carries this anymore.  All water based.


Do you have a Sherwin Williams store near you?

If so I would call them.

Dave



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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 18 June 2019 11:23:41 am John Dammeyer wrote:

> Hi Dave,
> This was months ago that I went looking.  For some reason Gene
> responded to "On Sunday 31 March 2019 10:20:38 pm John Dammeyer
> wrote:"
>
Sorry, I was recovering from kmail losing its indices after copying the 
Mail dir to a new drive with stretch vs the old drive had wheezy on it. 

I had to blow them all away and restart kmail, 2nd time I've had to do 
that in 18 years.  I think thats pretty good stability.

> The CNC cabinet colour matches the Mill depending on the light.
>
>  I'm still having issues with US Digital Encoders verse CUI AMT112
> series encoder.  I've finished assembling my other two STMBL servo
> drives but haven't had time to connect the DC motor to them to test if
> they also lose position like the HP_UHU drives do.
>
> John
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dave Cole [mailto:linuxcncro...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: June-18-19 7:56 AM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Posting order
> >
> > On 6/16/2019 9:47 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > I have a few years to go but for some reason still feeling growly.
> > > Went looking for some tintable alkyd enamel paint today to match
> > > the mill so I could paint the CNC cabinet.  What a wasted day.  No
> > > one carries this anymore.  All water based.
> >
> > Do you have a Sherwin Williams store near you?
> >
> > If so I would call them.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Dave,
This was months ago that I went looking.  For some reason Gene responded to 
"On Sunday 31 March 2019 10:20:38 pm John Dammeyer wrote:"

The CNC cabinet colour matches the Mill depending on the light. 

 I'm still having issues with US Digital Encoders verse CUI AMT112 series 
encoder.  I've finished assembling my other two STMBL servo drives but haven't 
had time to connect the DC motor to them to test if they also lose position 
like the HP_UHU drives do.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Cole [mailto:linuxcncro...@gmail.com]
> Sent: June-18-19 7:56 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Posting order
> 
> On 6/16/2019 9:47 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > I have a few years to go but for some reason still feeling growly.
> > Went looking for some tintable alkyd enamel paint today to match the
> > mill so I could paint the CNC cabinet.  What a wasted day.  No one
> > carries this anymore.  All water based.
> 
> 
> Do you have a Sherwin Williams store near you?
> 
> If so I would call them.
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Dave Cole]

On 6/16/2019 9:47 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

I have a few years to go but for some reason still feeling growly.
Went looking for some tintable alkyd enamel paint today to match the
mill so I could paint the CNC cabinet.  What a wasted day.  No one
carries this anymore.  All water based.



Do you have a Sherwin Williams store near you?

If so I would call them.

Dave



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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 31 March 2019 10:20:38 pm John Dammeyer wrote:

> > Would you like to compare birthdays John? I've had 84 of them
> > things. ;-)
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> I have a few years to go but for some reason still feeling growly. 
> Went looking for some tintable alkyd enamel paint today to match the
> mill so I could paint the CNC cabinet.  What a wasted day.  No one
> carries this anymore.  All water based.
>
BTDT, total waste.

> Trouble is the frame already has oil based primer so I can't really
> put water based anything on it until it's totally dry.  Have to try an
> autobody supply store tomorrow.
>
> So then I started installing all the electronics onto the frame and
> dropped the 24 volt supply.  Probably still works.  But now with 20-20
> hind sight I don't think the way I'm installing it will make it easy
> to service (replace).
>
> Time for a beer.

Come to think of it, I believe its beer thirty.>
> John
>
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Les Newell]

Please let this thread die. This is an argument based purely on personal 
preference so no-one's gonna win. Let's move onto something more 
interesting.




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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Rafael Skodlar]

On 4/8/19 3:32 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:

On 08.04.19 05:04, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Monday 08 April 2019 02:36:49 Erik Christiansen wrote:

...

And that requires html encoding, also high discouraged on most lists. And
usually skipped by this reader.


Nooo-, that'd be true if it were done on a sent message, but it's
only a display option I use on received messages. I'm as averse as you
to html, read only the plain text portion of a multipart post, and any
html-only post is auto-converted to plain text - then the unquoted text
is given another colour in the xterm, by mutt¹. Plain text does not
irremediably confine us to a monochrome display. (OK, it may be a bit
"fawncy" for some tastes, but makes for quicker discernment of what's
the reply, and a second saved can be spent on lunch.)

Erik

¹ It's just a regex detecting /^> /, then flipping those lines to the
   chosen colour. No html at all, even on the receive side.


Thunderbird does this so nicely.

Since top quoting folks do not trim emails, messages start to grow like 
rabbits. Ratio of noise/message size was about 80% in most mails at 
work. Besides font descriptions there are pixels of gifys and other 
nonsense that take more space than messages in many cases. This started 
with windows PCs connected to the internet.


Since emails are kept for long time to search back for messages, they 
occupy space on disks, mechanical or SSDs. Each one uses a lot of energy 
eventually. I don't know how much of this stuff is "out there" but it's 
likely in megawatts of energy shuffling emails back and forth. 
Conclusion, top posting without trimming is contributing to global 
warming more than normal style.


So there,

--
Rafael


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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Todd Zuercher]

The type of reply posting I find most offensive is inline posting with no 
whitespace separation from the quoted text.
I've received messages on this list where I scrolled up and down for several 
seconds looking for what and where the actual comment might have been only to 
give up in disgust and move on.  But otherwise I'm fine with top or bottom 
posts, with a preference for top.  Inline is even fine if enough separation 
from the quoted text is given to make the comment easily seen and so line 
wrapping doesn't screw it up.

-Original Message-
From: Stuart Stevenson  
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 10:20 AM
To: EMC2-Users-List 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY

I so much appreciate the responses.

Thanks
Stuart

On Mon, Apr 8, 2019, 8:45 AM Ken Strauss  wrote:

> I completely agree; I'm delighted to get *ANY* response to my dumb 
> questions!
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dave Cole [mailto:linuxcncro...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 9:23 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Posting order
> >
> >
> > >> What makes that even easier is to enable HTML email and then not 
> > >> only
> > change colour but also font.
> > > The "best" answer, of course, is to embed Javascript in an HTML 
> > > email to present the data according to the preferences registered 
> > > by each recipient on an SQLite database hosted on an Amazon AWS in the 
> > > cloud.
> > >
> > > :-)
> >
> > I read through 4 or 5 email lists on almost  a daily basis.  And I 
> > read through messages which are top posted, bottom posted, and sometimes 
> > even
> > MIDDLE POSTED (and replicated !  :-) ),   yet I still get by  and
> > all without going crazy, drinking excessively, etc.
> >
> > So this is my take:Thanks to everyone who has been gracious enough
> > to respond to "anything" I write !!!:-)
> >
> > You can top post, bottom post, middle post, split a middle post 
> > across multiple parts, encode your reply in javascript I really don't 
> > care.
> >
> > If you are willing to take the time to reply, I'm willing to read 
> > what you write.  :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
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>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Alan Condit]

Thank you,

> From: Dave Cole 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Posting order
> Date: April 8, 2019 at 6:23:20 AM PDT
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> 
> I read through 4 or 5 email lists on almost  a daily basis.  And I read 
> through messages which are top posted, bottom posted, and sometimes even 
> MIDDLE POSTED (and replicated !  :-) ),   yet I still get by  and all 
> without going crazy, drinking excessively, etc.
> 
> So this is my take:Thanks to everyone who has been gracious enough to 
> respond to "anything" I write !!!:-)
> 
> You can top post, bottom post, middle post, split a middle post across 
> multiple parts, encode your reply in javascript I really don't care.
> 
> If you are willing to take the time to reply, I'm willing to read what you 
> write.  :-)

David Cole — thank you,

Alan
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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Stuart Stevenson]

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY

I so much appreciate the responses.

Thanks
Stuart

On Mon, Apr 8, 2019, 8:45 AM Ken Strauss  wrote:

> I completely agree; I'm delighted to get *ANY* response to my dumb
> questions!
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dave Cole [mailto:linuxcncro...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 9:23 AM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Posting order
> >
> >
> > >> What makes that even easier is to enable HTML email and then not only
> > change colour but also font.
> > > The "best" answer, of course, is to embed Javascript in an HTML email
> > > to present the data according to the preferences registered by each
> > > recipient on an SQLite database hosted on an Amazon AWS in the cloud.
> > >
> > > :-)
> >
> > I read through 4 or 5 email lists on almost  a daily basis.  And I read
> > through messages which are top posted, bottom posted, and sometimes even
> > MIDDLE POSTED (and replicated !  :-) ),   yet I still get by  and
> > all without going crazy, drinking excessively, etc.
> >
> > So this is my take:Thanks to everyone who has been gracious enough
> > to respond to "anything" I write !!!:-)
> >
> > You can top post, bottom post, middle post, split a middle post across
> > multiple parts, encode your reply in javascript I really don't care.
> >
> > If you are willing to take the time to reply, I'm willing to read what
> > you write.  :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
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>
>
>
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[Emc-users] Posting order

[Roland Jollivet]

Maybe the main issue is the medium used, if you are saying that? It forces
the users to make a choice.
Top or bottom posting is not an issue in Whatsapp because it places the
reader at the pertinent point, and appends at bottom.

So Gmail, for example, should have a per-mailbox option of 'literal' or
'conversational'

For my general inbox I would choose literal, and mail would show as is. For
conversational, Gmail only need to keep a 16 value of the last line number
visited (per message), and go there everytime I open that topic.



On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 at 11:15, andy pugh  wrote:

> On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 at 08:39, John Dammeyer  wrote:
>
> > What makes that even easier is to enable HTML email and then not only
> change colour but also font.
>
> The "best" answer, of course, is to embed Javascript in an HTML email
> to present the data according to the preferences registered by each
> recipient on an SQLite database hosted on an Amazon AWS in the cloud.
>
> :-) 
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Ken Strauss]

I completely agree; I'm delighted to get *ANY* response to my dumb questions!

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Cole [mailto:linuxcncro...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 9:23 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Posting order
>
>
> >> What makes that even easier is to enable HTML email and then not only
> change colour but also font.
> > The "best" answer, of course, is to embed Javascript in an HTML email
> > to present the data according to the preferences registered by each
> > recipient on an SQLite database hosted on an Amazon AWS in the cloud.
> >
> > :-)
>
> I read through 4 or 5 email lists on almost  a daily basis.  And I read
> through messages which are top posted, bottom posted, and sometimes even
> MIDDLE POSTED (and replicated !  :-) ),   yet I still get by  and
> all without going crazy, drinking excessively, etc.
>
> So this is my take:Thanks to everyone who has been gracious enough
> to respond to "anything" I write !!!:-)
>
> You can top post, bottom post, middle post, split a middle post across
> multiple parts, encode your reply in javascript I really don't care.
>
> If you are willing to take the time to reply, I'm willing to read what
> you write.  :-)
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Dave Cole]

What makes that even easier is to enable HTML email and then not only change 
colour but also font.

The "best" answer, of course, is to embed Javascript in an HTML email
to present the data according to the preferences registered by each
recipient on an SQLite database hosted on an Amazon AWS in the cloud.

:-)


I read through 4 or 5 email lists on almost  a daily basis.  And I read 
through messages which are top posted, bottom posted, and sometimes even 
MIDDLE POSTED (and replicated !  :-) ),   yet I still get by  and 
all without going crazy, drinking excessively, etc.


So this is my take:    Thanks to everyone who has been gracious enough 
to respond to "anything" I write !!!    :-)


You can top post, bottom post, middle post, split a middle post across 
multiple parts, encode your reply in javascript I really don't care.


If you are willing to take the time to reply, I'm willing to read what 
you write.  :-)





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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Stuart Stevenson]

I have read this down to Andy's post. I just smile and go on. I have no
gripes either way. My choice to read or ignore has nothing to do with style
or format.

Content content content. :)

Regards
Stuart

On Mon, Apr 8, 2019, 8:14 AM andy pugh  wrote:

> I agree with some of your points and disagree with others.
>
> On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 at 14:04, Ken Strauss  wrote:
> >
> > IMHO bottom posting shows utter disdain for the reader who is forced to
> scroll
> > through many lines that he has already read. Of course bottom posting is
> great
> > for the reader who is too lazy to closely follow a thread and wants their
> > memory refreshed with each new posting.
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Erik Christiansen [mailto:dva...@internode.on.net]
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2019 11:55 PM
> > > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Posting order
> > >
> > > On 31.03.19 11:17, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > A: No.
> > > > > Q: Should I include quotations after my reply?
> > > > >
> > > > > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read
> text.
> > > > > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> > > > > A: Top-posting.
> > > > > Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Couldn't agree more. This ancient wisdom encourages consideration for
> > > the reader - and so may admittedly seem strange in this century.
> In-line
> > > replies, like this one, add a reply to a context. A top post is an
> > > answer without a question or context - good for skipping as
> impenetrable
> > > ass-backwards nonsense, IME.
> > >
> > > Or ... is it the custom in some quarters to read from the bottom up?
> > > It's the only thing which makes top posting intelligible, one has to
> > > admit.
> > >
> > > ...
> > >
> > > > If you are reading a once a week email of all the postings on a
> > > > subject then I can see wanting them all in order from top to bottom.
> > > > But otherwise it costs far more in concentration and time.
> > >
> > > You're too generous there, I think. Catching up on a week'sน mail right
> > > now, there's nothing more useless than fullquoting, before or after.
> > > A considerate poster chops out the stuff he's not answering, leaving a
> > > "..." to indicate there's someone else's input left out of this part of
> > > the discussion. The shorter the quoted text, the better. It is after
> all,
> > > repetition of list traffic, and unnecessary verbiage to read through is
> > > an unkind theft of other people's time.
> > >
> > > Erik
> > >
> > > น It's not that I read a digest, it's just that I've been out on the
> farm
> > > for a week. With threading, there's overall context from preceding
> posts,
> > > so it is a kindness to readers to quote only the sentences to be
> replied
> > > to, and to reply after the relevant question/proposition/opinion. Thus
> > > the reply has intelligibility through context.
> > >
> > >
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> >
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>
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[andy pugh]

I agree with some of your points and disagree with others.

On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 at 14:04, Ken Strauss  wrote:
>
> IMHO bottom posting shows utter disdain for the reader who is forced to scroll
> through many lines that he has already read. Of course bottom posting is great
> for the reader who is too lazy to closely follow a thread and wants their
> memory refreshed with each new posting.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Erik Christiansen [mailto:dva...@internode.on.net]
> > Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2019 11:55 PM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Posting order
> >
> > On 31.03.19 11:17, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > >
> > > > A: No.
> > > > Q: Should I include quotations after my reply?
> > > >
> > > > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> > > > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> > > > A: Top-posting.
> > > > Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
> > >
> >
> > Couldn't agree more. This ancient wisdom encourages consideration for
> > the reader - and so may admittedly seem strange in this century. In-line
> > replies, like this one, add a reply to a context. A top post is an
> > answer without a question or context - good for skipping as impenetrable
> > ass-backwards nonsense, IME.
> >
> > Or ... is it the custom in some quarters to read from the bottom up?
> > It's the only thing which makes top posting intelligible, one has to
> > admit.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > > If you are reading a once a week email of all the postings on a
> > > subject then I can see wanting them all in order from top to bottom.
> > > But otherwise it costs far more in concentration and time.
> >
> > You're too generous there, I think. Catching up on a week'sน mail right
> > now, there's nothing more useless than fullquoting, before or after.
> > A considerate poster chops out the stuff he's not answering, leaving a
> > "..." to indicate there's someone else's input left out of this part of
> > the discussion. The shorter the quoted text, the better. It is after all,
> > repetition of list traffic, and unnecessary verbiage to read through is
> > an unkind theft of other people's time.
> >
> > Erik
> >
> > น It's not that I read a digest, it's just that I've been out on the farm
> > for a week. With threading, there's overall context from preceding posts,
> > so it is a kindness to readers to quote only the sentences to be replied
> > to, and to reply after the relevant question/proposition/opinion. Thus
> > the reply has intelligibility through context.
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Ken Strauss]

IMHO bottom posting shows utter disdain for the reader who is forced to scroll 
through many lines that he has already read. Of course bottom posting is great 
for the reader who is too lazy to closely follow a thread and wants their 
memory refreshed with each new posting.

> -Original Message-
> From: Erik Christiansen [mailto:dva...@internode.on.net]
> Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2019 11:55 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Posting order
>
> On 31.03.19 11:17, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >
> > > A: No.
> > > Q: Should I include quotations after my reply?
> > >
> > > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> > > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> > > A: Top-posting.
> > > Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
> >
>
> Couldn't agree more. This ancient wisdom encourages consideration for
> the reader - and so may admittedly seem strange in this century. In-line
> replies, like this one, add a reply to a context. A top post is an
> answer without a question or context - good for skipping as impenetrable
> ass-backwards nonsense, IME.
>
> Or ... is it the custom in some quarters to read from the bottom up?
> It's the only thing which makes top posting intelligible, one has to
> admit.
>
> ...
>
> > If you are reading a once a week email of all the postings on a
> > subject then I can see wanting them all in order from top to bottom.
> > But otherwise it costs far more in concentration and time.
>
> You're too generous there, I think. Catching up on a week's¹ mail right
> now, there's nothing more useless than fullquoting, before or after.
> A considerate poster chops out the stuff he's not answering, leaving a
> "..." to indicate there's someone else's input left out of this part of
> the discussion. The shorter the quoted text, the better. It is after all,
> repetition of list traffic, and unnecessary verbiage to read through is
> an unkind theft of other people's time.
>
> Erik
>
> ¹ It's not that I read a digest, it's just that I've been out on the farm
> for a week. With threading, there's overall context from preceding posts,
> so it is a kindness to readers to quote only the sentences to be replied
> to, and to reply after the relevant question/proposition/opinion. Thus
> the reply has intelligibility through context.
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Erik Christiansen]

On 08.04.19 00:37, John Dammeyer wrote:
> I doubt anyone writing software would like to have only a black
> proportional font in their program text editor.  Yet we tolerate it
> for emails.

John, I've earned a fat living for 30 years writing software, and still
do a little for recreation. There, and here on emails, I relish a
monochrome _fixed_width_ font - admittedly yellow on darkslategrey.
That's what I read most easily. I once tried turning on keyword
colourisation on C code. It was garish unreadable gibberish, with
all meaning lost in a rainbow character cacophony. Never again!

I've spent over a hundred hours creating, redesigning, modifying, and
refining the 8 drawings of my house planes - all in Postscript, using a
monochrome fixed width font. It's ideal.

> I'm done.  I think I've shown where I stand on this.

Fair enough. An exchange of views is not a priori a cause for changing
one's viewpoint. I recognise your preference. Mine is equally
steadfastly unchanged from the perfection of the original email format.

Erik

-- 
HTML is not email, and email doesn't contain HTML, so please turn HTML
formatting OFF in your email client. We have filters in place that will
reject your message if your posting contains HTML.
   - http://gpl-violations.org/mailinglists.html


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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Erik Christiansen]

On 08.04.19 05:04, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Monday 08 April 2019 02:36:49 Erik Christiansen wrote:
> > Granted, excessive quoting is too common on most lists. A good MUA
> > does much to ameliorate the issue, though. In mutt, 'S' skips quoted
> > text to the next block of reply in a flash. I also have mutt display
> > quoted text and reply in different colours, so not only the "> "
> > quotation markers differentiate.
> >
> And that requires html encoding, also high discouraged on most lists. And 
> usually skipped by this reader.

Nooo-, that'd be true if it were done on a sent message, but it's
only a display option I use on received messages. I'm as averse as you
to html, read only the plain text portion of a multipart post, and any
html-only post is auto-converted to plain text - then the unquoted text
is given another colour in the xterm, by mutt¹. Plain text does not
irremediably confine us to a monochrome display. (OK, it may be a bit
"fawncy" for some tastes, but makes for quicker discernment of what's
the reply, and a second saved can be spent on lunch.)

Erik

¹ It's just a regex detecting /^> /, then flipping those lines to the
  chosen colour. No html at all, even on the receive side.

-- 
7 reasons why HTML mail is suboptimal:
http://www.georgedillon.com/web/html_email_is_evil.shtml


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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 at 08:39, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> What makes that even easier is to enable HTML email and then not only change 
> colour but also font.

The "best" answer, of course, is to embed Javascript in an HTML email
to present the data according to the preferences registered by each
recipient on an SQLite database hosted on an Amazon AWS in the cloud.

:-)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 08 April 2019 02:36:49 Erik Christiansen wrote:

> On 08.04.19 07:55, Roland Jollivet wrote:
> > I've thought about this, and don't agree. If people are following
> > this conversation, then it is fresh in their mind, and it's very
> > easy to read this post.
>
> Err, Roland, if "it is fresh in their mind", why fullquote my entire
> post in your reply? Does that not completely deny the freshness
> thesis?
>
> And is it not far more user-friendly to juxtapose pro and con in-line,
> as here, without relying on unreliable wetware memory?
>
> > It irks me to have to scroll down to find where someone actually
> > posted.
>
> That problem arises only when there is excessive quoting. When, as
> here, only the germane point is quoted, there is nothing to scroll
> past, and the minimal quote establishes the context of the response.
> And there's no need to read backwards.
>
> Granted, excessive quoting is too common on most lists. A good MUA
> does much to ameliorate the issue, though. In mutt, 'S' skips quoted
> text to the next block of reply in a flash. I also have mutt display
> quoted text and reply in different colours, so not only the "> "
> quotation markers differentiate.
>
And that requires html encoding, also high discouraged on most lists. And 
usually skipped by this reader.

> > So emails should be answered 'reflexivly'. If, however, if one
> > searches and finds a thread that is two years old, then you would
> > scroll to the bottom and start reading upwards.
>
> Are we now conflating the sequence of reading separate posts in a
> thread with the order of reading the lines in one of the posts???
> I'm at a loss to see any connection.
>
> > Why should everyone post according to the chance event that someone
> > will read the post at some later date. A discussion for for people
> > participating, not for possible latecomers.
>
> It would surprise me if anyone does. We reply in-line in order to make
> the post intelligible to those who do not read backwards - first,
> second, or nth reading.
>
> [fullquote elided]
>
> Erik
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 08 April 2019 01:55:26 Roland Jollivet wrote:

> I've thought about this, and don't agree. If people are following this
> conversation, then it is fresh in their mind, and it's very easy to
> read this post. It irks me to have to scroll down to find where
> someone actually posted.
>
> So emails should be answered 'reflexivly'. If, however, if one
> searches and finds a thread that is two years old, then you would
> scroll to the bottom and start reading upwards. Why should everyone
> post according to the chance event that someone will read the post at
> some later date. A discussion for for people participating, not for
> possible latecomers.
>
> If everybody top posted, it would make life easier for all. But it
> needs to be consistent..
>
And consistently ignored as rude and inconsiderate. When in Rome etc.
>
> On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 at 05:56, Erik Christiansen
> 
>
> wrote:
> > On 31.03.19 11:17, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > > A: No.
> > > > Q: Should I include quotations after my reply?
> > > >
> > > > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read
> > > > text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> > > > A: Top-posting.
> > > > Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
> >
> > Couldn't agree more. This ancient wisdom encourages consideration
> > for the reader - and so may admittedly seem strange in this century.
> > In-line replies, like this one, add a reply to a context. A top post
> > is an answer without a question or context - good for skipping as
> > impenetrable ass-backwards nonsense, IME.
> >
> > Or ... is it the custom in some quarters to read from the bottom up?
> > It's the only thing which makes top posting intelligible, one has to
> > admit.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > > If you are reading a once a week email of all the postings on a
> > > subject then I can see wanting them all in order from top to
> > > bottom. But otherwise it costs far more in concentration and time.
> >
> > You're too generous there, I think. Catching up on a week's¹ mail
> > right now, there's nothing more useless than fullquoting, before or
> > after. A considerate poster chops out the stuff he's not answering,
> > leaving a "..." to indicate there's someone else's input left out of
> > this part of the discussion. The shorter the quoted text, the
> > better. It is after all, repetition of list traffic, and unnecessary
> > verbiage to read through is an unkind theft of other people's time.
> >
> > Erik
> >
> > ¹ It's not that I read a digest, it's just that I've been out on the
> > farm for a week. With threading, there's overall context from
> > preceding posts, so it is a kindness to readers to quote only the
> > sentences to be replied to, and to reply after the relevant
> > question/proposition/opinion. Thus the reply has intelligibility
> > through context.
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[John Dammeyer]

I'll make one more comment on this and then go back to lurking on this subject. 
 
 
When I have a number of email conversions with a client on how to perhaps 
implement something or where changes are needed we usually reply to the 
question at the top of the email.  We're way too busy to go searching for all 
the replies within a long string of messages some indented and some not.
 
So if the email comes in and we are asked,
"Should we add a CANopen PDO that has the battery temperature?"
 
The answer to that will be at the top of the  email reply.  If it's a running 
thread and we've forgotten something we just scroll down until we find what is 
relevant and then scroll up slowly reading the replies.  
 
However, if the previous email was a list of items or involved a number of 
points we might answer at the top with a short summary or comment and then 
state:  "See below".  That tells our reader that the initial information is 
right at the top of the email and they spend no time looking for the answer.  
But also that if they want more extensive information they can scroll down.  
Time is money I guess.
 
What makes that even easier is to enable HTML email and then not only change 
colour but also font.
 
For example although I've changed this email to HTML it will be returned to the 
antiquated text mode and the formatting that was added to make things more 
readable and therefore more comprehensible will have been removed.  For some 
reason some email lists want to stay in the dark ages even if readability and 
comprehension suffers.
 
In the program fragment below the comment is in green, the typedef and enum are 
in bold dark blue the {,}, characters are in light blue, the #define in red and 
the decimal numbers in a darker yellow. The whole works is in Courier fixed 
pitch font with tabs removed so spacing is symmetrical and it's a bit smaller 
than the conversational text with a font size of 8.   All of this done with 
CodeWright by Borland that I started using back in 1991.  Now long discontinued 
it still runs on WIN-7.   Yet I can copy it to the clipboard and paste it into 
an HTML email. 
 
// EventReport,h -- Definitions for the Event Report Thread

typedef enum _eventreportstate {
EVNT_INIT,
EVNT_START,
EVNT_LOG,
EVNT_WAIT,
EVNT_REPORT
} TEVNT_REPORT_STATE;

#define EVENT_LIST_SIZE 8
#define EVENT_LIST_MASK (EVENT_LIST_SIZE-1)


 
What you'll really see is the same text font as the conversation and your mind 
will take an extra few seconds to process.  And the more modern eclipse based 
NetBeans as shown in the example below can't even transfer the syntax 
highlighting with a copy and paste.  Maybe there's a parameter to set that 
allows this?
 
// Create a CMSGSID data type.
typedef struct {
unsigned SID:11;
unsigned FILHIT:5;
unsigned CMSGTS:16;
} rxcmsgsid;
 
 
Reminds me of what my Expository Writing Prof said in 4th year university.   
When the something is wrong with writing often a reader continues on for a few 
sentences before they even realize comprehension has been lost.  It causes what 
he called an "imperceptible pause", and then a reader has to move back through 
the text to try and pick up the meaning.
 
Who cares right?  I do.  Others probably don’t.  Others are running software 
that can't do it so they don't miss it because they never see it. 
 
I'll stop here.  How replies are formatted seems to have become a religion with 
many people and it's pretty well impossible to change someone's religion.  But 
once you've traded emails with colours and syntax highlighting the systems that 
don't support it become the butt of jokes because they are so clumsy.  I doubt 
anyone writing software would like to have only a black proportional font in 
their program text editor.  Yet we tolerate it for emails.
 
I'm done.  I think I've shown where I stand on this.
 
John
 

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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Erik Christiansen]

On 08.04.19 07:55, Roland Jollivet wrote:
> I've thought about this, and don't agree. If people are following this
> conversation, then it is fresh in their mind, and it's very easy to read
> this post.

Err, Roland, if "it is fresh in their mind", why fullquote my entire
post in your reply? Does that not completely deny the freshness thesis?

And is it not far more user-friendly to juxtapose pro and con in-line,
as here, without relying on unreliable wetware memory?

> It irks me to have to scroll down to find where someone actually posted.

That problem arises only when there is excessive quoting. When, as here,
only the germane point is quoted, there is nothing to scroll past, and
the minimal quote establishes the context of the response. And there's
no need to read backwards.

Granted, excessive quoting is too common on most lists. A good MUA does
much to ameliorate the issue, though. In mutt, 'S' skips quoted text to
the next block of reply in a flash. I also have mutt display quoted text
and reply in different colours, so not only the "> " quotation markers
differentiate.

> So emails should be answered 'reflexivly'. If, however, if one searches and
> finds a thread that is two years old, then you would scroll to the bottom
> and start reading upwards.

Are we now conflating the sequence of reading separate posts in a thread
with the order of reading the lines in one of the posts???
I'm at a loss to see any connection.

> Why should everyone post according to the chance event that someone
> will read the post at some later date. A discussion for for people
> participating, not for possible latecomers.

It would surprise me if anyone does. We reply in-line in order to make
the post intelligible to those who do not read backwards - first, second,
or nth reading.

[fullquote elided] 

Erik


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[Emc-users] Posting order

[Roland Jollivet]

I've thought about this, and don't agree. If people are following this
conversation, then it is fresh in their mind, and it's very easy to read
this post. It irks me to have to scroll down to find where someone actually
posted.

So emails should be answered 'reflexivly'. If, however, if one searches and
finds a thread that is two years old, then you would scroll to the bottom
and start reading upwards. Why should everyone post according to the chance
event that someone will read the post at some later date. A discussion for
for people participating, not for possible latecomers.

If everybody top posted, it would make life easier for all. But it needs to
be consistent..


On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 at 05:56, Erik Christiansen 
wrote:

> On 31.03.19 11:17, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >
> > > A: No.
> > > Q: Should I include quotations after my reply?
> > >
> > > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> > > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> > > A: Top-posting.
> > > Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
> >
>
> Couldn't agree more. This ancient wisdom encourages consideration for
> the reader - and so may admittedly seem strange in this century. In-line
> replies, like this one, add a reply to a context. A top post is an
> answer without a question or context - good for skipping as impenetrable
> ass-backwards nonsense, IME.
>
> Or ... is it the custom in some quarters to read from the bottom up?
> It's the only thing which makes top posting intelligible, one has to
> admit.
>
> ...
>
> > If you are reading a once a week email of all the postings on a
> > subject then I can see wanting them all in order from top to bottom.
> > But otherwise it costs far more in concentration and time.
>
> You're too generous there, I think. Catching up on a week's¹ mail right
> now, there's nothing more useless than fullquoting, before or after.
> A considerate poster chops out the stuff he's not answering, leaving a
> "..." to indicate there's someone else's input left out of this part of
> the discussion. The shorter the quoted text, the better. It is after all,
> repetition of list traffic, and unnecessary verbiage to read through is
> an unkind theft of other people's time.
>
> Erik
>
> ¹ It's not that I read a digest, it's just that I've been out on the farm
> for a week. With threading, there's overall context from preceding posts,
> so it is a kindness to readers to quote only the sentences to be replied
> to, and to reply after the relevant question/proposition/opinion. Thus
> the reply has intelligibility through context.
>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Erik Christiansen]

On 31.03.19 11:17, John Dammeyer wrote:
> 
> > A: No.
> > Q: Should I include quotations after my reply?
> > 
> > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> > A: Top-posting.
> > Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
> 

Couldn't agree more. This ancient wisdom encourages consideration for
the reader - and so may admittedly seem strange in this century. In-line
replies, like this one, add a reply to a context. A top post is an
answer without a question or context - good for skipping as impenetrable
ass-backwards nonsense, IME.

Or ... is it the custom in some quarters to read from the bottom up?
It's the only thing which makes top posting intelligible, one has to
admit.

...

> If you are reading a once a week email of all the postings on a
> subject then I can see wanting them all in order from top to bottom.
> But otherwise it costs far more in concentration and time.  

You're too generous there, I think. Catching up on a week's¹ mail right
now, there's nothing more useless than fullquoting, before or after.
A considerate poster chops out the stuff he's not answering, leaving a
"..." to indicate there's someone else's input left out of this part of
the discussion. The shorter the quoted text, the better. It is after all,
repetition of list traffic, and unnecessary verbiage to read through is
an unkind theft of other people's time.

Erik

¹ It's not that I read a digest, it's just that I've been out on the farm
for a week. With threading, there's overall context from preceding posts,
so it is a kindness to readers to quote only the sentences to be replied
to, and to reply after the relevant question/proposition/opinion. Thus
the reply has intelligibility through context.


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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[John Dammeyer]

Andy,

> > Went looking for some tintable alkyd enamel paint today to match the mill
>> so I could paint the CNC cabinet. What a wasted day.  No one carries this
> >anymore.

> Can you get this in the US?
> https://www.smithandallan.com/products/tractol-paint/1447-tractol-329-
> single-pack-machinery-enamel-all-colours/

Maybe in the USA but I've not seen it in Canada.

John




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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[andy pugh]

I am not sure what I am meant to do any more. So I have top, middle
and bottom posted to annoy everyone equally.

Can you get this in the US?
https://www.smithandallan.com/products/tractol-paint/1447-tractol-329-single-pack-machinery-enamel-all-colours/
(Click on the "Select colour" button to see the colour swatches in a
wide range of machine tool colours, including Germany's favourite
"Reseda Green"


> Went looking for some tintable alkyd enamel paint today to match the mill so 
> I could paint the CNC cabinet. What a wasted day.  No one carries this 
> anymore.

Can you get this in the US?
https://www.smithandallan.com/products/tractol-paint/1447-tractol-329-single-pack-machinery-enamel-all-colours/
(Click on the "Select colour" button to see the colour swatches in a
wide range of machine tool colours, including Germany's favourite
"Reseda Green"

On Mon, 1 Apr 2019 at 03:22, John Dammeyer  wrote:
>
> > Would you like to compare birthdays John? I've had 84 of them things. ;-)
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> I have a few years to go but for some reason still feeling growly.  Went 
> looking for some tintable alkyd enamel paint today to match the mill so I 
> could paint the CNC cabinet.  What a wasted day.  No one carries this 
> anymore.  All water based.
>
> Trouble is the frame already has oil based primer so I can't really put water 
> based anything on it until it's totally dry.  Have to try an autobody supply 
> store tomorrow.
>
> So then I started installing all the electronics onto the frame and dropped 
> the 24 volt supply.  Probably still works.  But now with 20-20 hind sight I 
> don't think the way I'm installing it will make it easy to service (replace).
>
> Time for a beer.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Can you get this in the US?
https://www.smithandallan.com/products/tractol-paint/1447-tractol-329-single-pack-machinery-enamel-all-colours/
(Click on the "Select colour" button to see the colour swatches in a
wide range of machine tool colours, including Germany's favourite
"Reseda Green"

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Lester Caine]

On 01/04/2019 01:05, John Dammeyer wrote:

It's not just the order of posting---it's also the courteous habit of
editing the post

I agree.


If top posters simply switched off 'quote message' things would be a lot 
tidier? The worst part is the dozens of 'sigs' that some client software 
does not trim FROM the quote ... even worse when they are mixed into the 
quote :(


Just been reading a 4 message thread on another list with a bottom 
posted reply ... below the sig ... then top posted comments re the 
bottom post ... and new sigs added below the comments ... That site can 
have dozens of follow ups very quickly which take some time to unravel ...


--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - https://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - https://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - https://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - https://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - https://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk


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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 31 March 2019 22:20:38 John Dammeyer wrote:

> > Would you like to compare birthdays John? I've had 84 of them
> > things. ;-)
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> I have a few years to go but for some reason still feeling growly. 
> Went looking for some tintable alkyd enamel paint today to match the
> mill so I could paint the CNC cabinet.  What a wasted day.  No one
> carries this anymore.  All water based.
>
> Trouble is the frame already has oil based primer so I can't really
> put water based anything on it until it's totally dry.  Have to try an
> autobody supply store tomorrow.
>
> So then I started installing all the electronics onto the frame and
> dropped the 24 volt supply.  Probably still works.  But now with 20-20
> hind sight I don't think the way I'm installing it will make it easy
> to service (replace).
>
> Time for a beer.

I've had my one near beer for the day, I was found diabetic about 25 
years back, so now I take a couple grams of metformin daily.

And I can testify that hind sight is a lot better than 20-20. Old age, it 
creeps up on you in very stealthy moccasins.  And its a good idea to 
never look back, something might be gaining on you.

And yes that supply s/b installed so it can be swapped out for a fresh 
one easily, the capacitors WILL die, sometimes a horribly messy death. 
Least dependable part in any system. We need to invent something more 
dependable for use as a large capacitance, but alu foil, kraft paper, 
and a cc or less of technical grade ethylene glycol is 100 years later, 
still the cheapest farad you can buy by several magnitudes. I'm also a 
Certified Electronics Technician, now long since retired after spending 
nearly 50 years keeping some tv station on the air.

Its been quite a ride since I fixed my first tv in 1948, at 14 years old.  
Yup, I was a geek before the word was invented. But now I've had a 
couple health accidents that have slowed the thinker a bit. Most 
recently a pacemaker, I was getting dizzy in between heartbeats.  
Figured I had better get that fixed as I have a fading wife to care for.

Take care John.

> John
>
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[John Dammeyer]

> Would you like to compare birthdays John? I've had 84 of them things. ;-)
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

I have a few years to go but for some reason still feeling growly.  Went 
looking for some tintable alkyd enamel paint today to match the mill so I could 
paint the CNC cabinet.  What a wasted day.  No one carries this anymore.  All 
water based.  

Trouble is the frame already has oil based primer so I can't really put water 
based anything on it until it's totally dry.  Have to try an autobody supply 
store tomorrow.

So then I started installing all the electronics onto the frame and dropped the 
24 volt supply.  Probably still works.  But now with 20-20 hind sight I don't 
think the way I'm installing it will make it easy to service (replace).  

Time for a beer.

John




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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 31 March 2019 20:05:41 John Dammeyer wrote:

> > It's not just the order of posting---it's also the courteous habit
> > of editing the post
>
> I agree.
>
> > Another thing---it's not just the Linux invaders who insist on
> > bottom-posting---it's an age-honored tradition of the Usenet, so I
> > am surprised that you are surprised by it.
>
> Not surprised.  Just always annoyed by it.  The history is there in
> the previous messages.  Rarely are more than a few lines are needed. 
> But then note that I also changed the subject line.
>
> But I'm getting old and growly now even if I still have
> rec.crafts.metalworking posts from 1997.
>
> John
>
Would you like to compare birthdays John? I've had 84 of them things. ;-)
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[John Dammeyer]

> 
> It's not just the order of posting---it's also the courteous habit of
> editing the post 

I agree.

> 
> Another thing---it's not just the Linux invaders who insist on
> bottom-posting---it's an age-honored tradition of the Usenet, so I am
> surprised that you are surprised by it.

Not surprised.  Just always annoyed by it.  The history is there in the 
previous messages.  Rarely are more than a few lines are needed.  But then note 
that I also changed the subject line.

But I'm getting old and growly now even if I still have rec.crafts.metalworking 
posts from 1997.

John




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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Sun, Mar 31, 2019 at 2:20 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> Personally I think that's a load of crap.  Usenet and email postings are
> sequential.  Scrolling through hundreds of lines of text all indented with
> various amounts of ">>>" depending on when it was posted is not only mind
> numbing but leads to ignoring posts.  I've lost track of the number of
> times I hit the X on the email when there are pages of old stuff that I
> just read on a previous email.  Now I have to carefully scroll through to
> find the reply.  Not worth my time.
>

It's not just the order of posting---it's also the courteous habit of
editing the post so that your response follows just the minimal snippet
necessary to provide the context to what you're saying. I think that more
than 12 lines of context almost always mean that such courtesy was not
extended.

Another thing---it's not just the Linux invaders who insist on
bottom-posting---it's an age-honored tradition of the Usenet, so I am
surprised that you are surprised by it.

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[Emc-users] Posting order

[John Dammeyer]

> A: No.
> Q: Should I include quotations after my reply?
> 
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> A: Top-posting.
> Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

Personally I think that's a load of crap.  Usenet and email postings are 
sequential.  Scrolling through hundreds of lines of text all indented with 
various amounts of ">>>" depending on when it was posted is not only mind 
numbing but leads to ignoring posts.  I've lost track of the number of times I 
hit the X on the email when there are pages of old stuff that I just read on a 
previous email.  Now I have to carefully scroll through to find the reply.  Not 
worth my time.

If you are reading a once a week email of all the postings on a subject then I 
can see wanting them all in order from top to bottom.   But otherwise it costs 
far more in concentration and time.  

But the idea that we should cater to lazy  people who don't read each posting 
in the order it came is just rude.  That's why there are time/date stamps on 
each email and your email program can sort them in order.  Then you start at 
the first and read the original question.  Move to the next in that subject and 
read the comment.  

This isn't rocket science.   Look at any forum where the postings are even 
indented and in most cases there might be a tiny bit of the previous subject 
above the answer but not a week or more worth of indented postings.

I can run my 1995 Forte Free Agent, select Rec.Crafts.Metalworking and postings 
from 1995 are in that same format.  Maybe a bit relating to the subject from 
previous posters or nothing at all in the indented answers.  But this was all 
before the Linux Police showed up telling people they were rude.

IMHO



> 
> --
> Rafael
> 
> 
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