Re: [e-users] Changing cursor size
On 11/27/2014 10:46 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: [...] literally - many applications set their own cursor. when they set it they are entirely in charge. often it's the toolkit itself that sets it, but it literally is independent. e's own cursor has nothing to do with these app/toolkit set cursors. A pity it ended up that way, but it's the price we pay for the independence of the applications. On a Mac, for example, if you set the cursor size, it stays set across applications, even non-Apple ones. Which exists in many systems, including Ubuntu (which is what underlies my e); pressing the Ctrl key alone used to flash the cursor location. But that has now been removed for unfathomable reasons, which is why I am seeking an alternative. not removed. you are using e - it just isn't there to begin with. I'm sorry, I expressed that clumsily. On a system running Xubuntu/xfce (no e17) the Ctrl-key cursor-location flash has been removed. I wouldn't expect it to be in e -- that would need to be written as a utility (and it would be useful). In fact, according to private email from a reader who has lost write access to this list, there is: a little utility called unclutter that removes the cursor after a customizable timeout.. e.g. 2 seconds. Now, an unintentional (?) benefit of this little gadget is that whenever I grab the mouse... the cursor becomes visible and it automatically catches my eye. Which sounds like what I was looking for...thank you. ///Peter -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Changing cursor size
On 11/26/2014 10:59 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: if everywhere else you mean over applications - they set their own cursors. e is not in charge of that. e's cursor is set on the root window and otherwise on its own content (titlebar etc.). are you using the default theme or some other theme? it could be that your theme has changed just the standard normal e cursor but not the resize/move etc. cursors and thus the ones it didnt change work... It's the default theme. This is beginning to make sense. then you have a disagreement with the theme designer who designed everything to go together. let's take your argument further. scale 2x is fine for everything.. except checkboxes! i can't use them. let me scale those separately. but no. not just checkboxes. i find the close button too small - can i have just a separate scale for the close button? ... need i go on. No, but the cursor is omnipresent and should supersede all application-specific widgets like checkboxes. I understand what you are saying, but I think there should be a way to override whatever object sets the cursor size. I also find it hard to imagine that an application developer would specify the size of the cursor used within her application: surely it should just inherit its size from the surrounding environment, as it does in lesser interfaces than e :-) what you are saying is that unless we go and provide a special scaling control for every single element of the screen, just in case you don't like the size of that one special thing... it's broken. sorry - i don't buy your argument. this basically requires an insanely large set of special cased scaling values to apply and the need to mark everything with a special scale class. that's just nuts. It certainly would be, but I am not arguing for that, just for the primacy of the cursor to be inherited by applications, not set indivually for each one. But that is obviously unattainable. no - they just have better eyesight. not everyone magically becomes blind as a bat when they get older. :) even then... you seem specifically immune to detecting motion. regardless of clarity of eyesight, we are mentally attuned in our visual system to detecting motion - to hunt and to detect danger. even if it's small... it moves and thus is a warning. It certainly is. to me it seems you need less of a large cursor and more of a find my cursor feature. Which exists in many systems, including Ubuntu (which is what underlies my e); pressing the Ctrl key alone used to flash the cursor location. But that has now been removed for unfathomable reasons, which is why I am seeking an alternative. ///Peter -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Changing cursor size
On Thu, 27 Nov 2014 16:02:49 + Peter Flynn pe...@silmaril.ie said: On 11/26/2014 10:59 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: if everywhere else you mean over applications - they set their own cursors. e is not in charge of that. e's cursor is set on the root window and otherwise on its own content (titlebar etc.). are you using the default theme or some other theme? it could be that your theme has changed just the standard normal e cursor but not the resize/move etc. cursors and thus the ones it didnt change work... It's the default theme. This is beginning to make sense. then you have a disagreement with the theme designer who designed everything to go together. let's take your argument further. scale 2x is fine for everything.. except checkboxes! i can't use them. let me scale those separately. but no. not just checkboxes. i find the close button too small - can i have just a separate scale for the close button? ... need i go on. No, but the cursor is omnipresent and should supersede all application-specific widgets like checkboxes. I understand what you are saying, but I think there should be a way to override whatever object sets the cursor size. I also find it hard to imagine that an application developer would specify the size of the cursor used within her application: surely it should just inherit its size from the surrounding environment, as it does in lesser interfaces than e :-) see below. what you are saying is that unless we go and provide a special scaling control for every single element of the screen, just in case you don't like the size of that one special thing... it's broken. sorry - i don't buy your argument. this basically requires an insanely large set of special cased scaling values to apply and the need to mark everything with a special scale class. that's just nuts. It certainly would be, but I am not arguing for that, just for the primacy of the cursor to be inherited by applications, not set indivually for each one. But that is obviously unattainable. literally - many applications set their own cursor. when they set it they are entirely in charge. often it's the toolkit itself that sets it, but it literally is independent. e's own cursor has nothing to do with these app/toolkit set cursors. they often use these x cursor themes that are fairly limited in what they can display inside a cursor. x cusror theme files are a separate beast to your gtk theme, qt theme or even e theme. e uses the same theme that runs everything else in e - same file, same mechanisms, etc. etc/ ... but e can't go change cursors that the client applications set on their own windows. it has no such control. such control doesn't exist in x11. e could try CREATE an x11 cursor theme, then go modify the gtk/qt theme info to tell these toolkits to use that theme - but no such codee exists in e, and to do it would be nigh impossible as e's theme and x11 cursor themes don't match in features or how they work at all. e's cursors are live objects like everything else. they animate based on abstract signals you send to them. x11 cursor are static (except for the ability to cycle N images in a loop). no - they just have better eyesight. not everyone magically becomes blind as a bat when they get older. :) even then... you seem specifically immune to detecting motion. regardless of clarity of eyesight, we are mentally attuned in our visual system to detecting motion - to hunt and to detect danger. even if it's small... it moves and thus is a warning. It certainly is. to me it seems you need less of a large cursor and more of a find my cursor feature. Which exists in many systems, including Ubuntu (which is what underlies my e); pressing the Ctrl key alone used to flash the cursor location. But that has now been removed for unfathomable reasons, which is why I am seeking an alternative. not removed. you are using e - it just isn't there to begin with. -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Changing cursor size
On 11/26/2014 12:12 AM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 00:02:02 + Peter Flynn pe...@silmaril.ie said: On 11/24/2014 11:11 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: [...] did you look at input - mouse ... there is size there. That's where it fails (ie has zero effect). works here. e's cursor changes size. The problem must be with my laptop screen driver or something non-e-related, in that case. No matter what I change, the mouse pointer and cursor remain the same...except when the pointer moves into the grab-zone at the edge of windows: then it momentarily changes to the size I asked for. Everywhere else, it's the default size for the theme. that's the point of the scale factor. you need everything 2x as big. scale factor is 2. cursor gets 2x the size too (if marked to scale). But that's my point. Let's say that 2x is the ideal size for my kind of work: windows that fit, menus etc that I can work with. All except the cursor/pointer, which is way too small for me to see properly. I don't want to use 3x or 4x: I just want to be able to enlarge the pointer size independently of the theme scale. I think the designer may have overlooked the fact that the visibility of the cursor on a laptop screen is poor when the mouse is small, because accelerated movement is not updated to the cursor during fast motion, so it effectively disappears from the screen. ? the cursor moves every single screen refresh. it doesnt go pause or drop movement when it accelerates (acceleration is actually just multiplying the delta x and y values by some number when they exceed some threshold). That may be so, but when I want to find the cursor on the screen (having perhaps not used it for a while, eg write writing or editing in Emacs, where I tend to use keystrokes), I wiggle the mouse in the hope that my eyes will spot some movement. But it takes a while before I can see anything moving, the cursor/arrow is so small. I suspect the problem is that theme designers are younger than I am, and have excellent eyesight :-) so they are unaware of the problem. ///Peter -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Changing cursor size
On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 16:21:04 + Peter Flynn pe...@silmaril.ie said: On 11/26/2014 12:12 AM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 00:02:02 + Peter Flynn pe...@silmaril.ie said: On 11/24/2014 11:11 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: [...] did you look at input - mouse ... there is size there. That's where it fails (ie has zero effect). works here. e's cursor changes size. The problem must be with my laptop screen driver or something non-e-related, in that case. No matter what I change, the mouse pointer and cursor remain the same...except when the pointer moves into the grab-zone at the edge of windows: then it momentarily changes to the size I asked for. Everywhere else, it's the default size for the theme. if everywhere else you mean over applications - they set their own cursors. e is not in charge of that. e's cursor is set on the root window and otherwise on its own content (titlebar etc.). are you using the default theme or some other theme? it coould be that your theme has changed just the standard normal e cursor but not the resize/move etc. cursors and thus the ones it didnt change work... that's the point of the scale factor. you need everything 2x as big. scale factor is 2. cursor gets 2x the size too (if marked to scale). But that's my point. Let's say that 2x is the ideal size for my kind of work: windows that fit, menus etc that I can work with. All except the cursor/pointer, which is way too small for me to see properly. I don't want to use 3x or 4x: I just want to be able to enlarge the pointer size independently of the theme scale. then you have a disagreement with the theme designer who designed everything to go together. let's take your argument further. scale 2x is fine for everything.. except checkboxes! i can't use them. let me scale those separately. but no. not just checkboxes. i find the close button too small - can i have just a separate scale for the close button? ... need i go on. what you are saying is that unless we go and provide a special scaling control for every single element of the screen, just in case you don't like the size of that one special thing... it's broken. sorry - i don't buy your argument. this basically requires an insanely large set of special cased scaling values to apply and the need to mark everything with a special scale class. that's just nuts. I think the designer may have overlooked the fact that the visibility of the cursor on a laptop screen is poor when the mouse is small, because accelerated movement is not updated to the cursor during fast motion, so it effectively disappears from the screen. ? the cursor moves every single screen refresh. it doesnt go pause or drop movement when it accelerates (acceleration is actually just multiplying the delta x and y values by some number when they exceed some threshold). That may be so, but when I want to find the cursor on the screen (having perhaps not used it for a while, eg write writing or editing in Emacs, where I tend to use keystrokes), I wiggle the mouse in the hope that my eyes will spot some movement. But it takes a while before I can see anything moving, the cursor/arrow is so small. I suspect the problem is that theme designers are younger than I am, and have excellent eyesight :-) so they are unaware of the problem. no - they just have better eyesight. not everyone magically becomes blind as a bat when they get older. :) even then... you seem specifically immune to detecting motion. regardless of clarity of eyesight, we are mentally attuned in our visual system to detecting motion - to hunt and to detect danger. even if it's small... it moves and thus is a warning. to me it seems you need less of a large cursor and more of a find my cursor feature. you are working around that by demanding a special huge cursor. huge cursors have a big downside - they take up lots of screen space (cover things up). you probably want something more like hit a hotkey and some big animation zooms in on where the cursor is now so you can't miss it. ///Peter -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com --
Re: [e-users] Changing cursor size
On 11/24/2014 11:11 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 19:42:48 + Peter Flynn pe...@silmaril.ie said: On 11/24/2014 02:43 AM, Christopher Barry wrote: I *think* this may be a theme function, and you may need to hack the theme you're using. (but don't hold me to that...). Just thought I should answer, since no one else is. Thanks very much...from an accessibility point of view this would be deeply suboptimal, as those with poorer sight will be unable to adjust the cursor size, which is critical. Perhaps the cursor size should be freed from this restriction. did you look at input - mouse ... there is size there. That's where it fails (ie has zero effect). but when he said it's up to the theme - it's up to the theme to mark mouse as scalable - if its marked as scaleable in the edj file then it scales along with the scale factor in e. (or should). it just needs to be flagged as scaleable. IMHO that is the error: scaling it in proportion to the global scale factor isn't the answer. I don't want to use a large scale factor, I just need a bigger cursor to go with the scale factor I'm using. I think the designer may have overlooked the fact that the visibility of the cursor on a laptop screen is poor when the mouse is small, because accelerated movement is not updated to the cursor during fast motion, so it effectively disappears from the screen. ///Peter -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Changing cursor size
On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 00:02:02 + Peter Flynn pe...@silmaril.ie said: On 11/24/2014 11:11 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 19:42:48 + Peter Flynn pe...@silmaril.ie said: On 11/24/2014 02:43 AM, Christopher Barry wrote: I *think* this may be a theme function, and you may need to hack the theme you're using. (but don't hold me to that...). Just thought I should answer, since no one else is. Thanks very much...from an accessibility point of view this would be deeply suboptimal, as those with poorer sight will be unable to adjust the cursor size, which is critical. Perhaps the cursor size should be freed from this restriction. did you look at input - mouse ... there is size there. That's where it fails (ie has zero effect). works here. e's cursor changes size. but when he said it's up to the theme - it's up to the theme to mark mouse as scalable - if its marked as scaleable in the edj file then it scales along with the scale factor in e. (or should). it just needs to be flagged as scaleable. IMHO that is the error: scaling it in proportion to the global scale factor isn't the answer. I don't want to use a large scale factor, I just need a bigger cursor to go with the scale factor I'm using. that's the point of the scale factor. you need everything 2x as big. scale factor is 2. cursor gets 2x the size too (if marked to scale). I think the designer may have overlooked the fact that the visibility of the cursor on a laptop screen is poor when the mouse is small, because accelerated movement is not updated to the cursor during fast motion, so it effectively disappears from the screen. ? the cursor moves every single screen refresh. it doesnt go pause or drop movement when it accelerates (acceleration is actually just multiplying the delta x and y values by some number when they exceed some threshold). ///Peter -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Changing cursor size
On 11/24/2014 02:43 AM, Christopher Barry wrote: I *think* this may be a theme function, and you may need to hack the theme you're using. (but don't hold me to that...). Just thought I should answer, since no one else is. Thanks very much...from an accessibility point of view this would be deeply suboptimal, as those with poorer sight will be unable to adjust the cursor size, which is critical. Perhaps the cursor size should be freed from this restriction. ///Peter -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Changing cursor size
On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 19:42:48 + Peter Flynn pe...@silmaril.ie said: On 11/24/2014 02:43 AM, Christopher Barry wrote: I *think* this may be a theme function, and you may need to hack the theme you're using. (but don't hold me to that...). Just thought I should answer, since no one else is. Thanks very much...from an accessibility point of view this would be deeply suboptimal, as those with poorer sight will be unable to adjust the cursor size, which is critical. Perhaps the cursor size should be freed from this restriction. did you look at input - mouse ... there is size there. :) but when he said it's up to the theme - it's up to the theme to mark mouse as scalable - if its marked as scaleable in the edj file then it scales along with the scale factor in e. (or should). it just needs to be flagged as scaleable. -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)ras...@rasterman.com -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Changing cursor size
On 11/18/2014 09:25 PM, Peter Flynn wrote: How do I change the size of the arrow cursor in e17? Has anyone any suggestions here? I cannot get the change to a larger size to work. ///Peter In Settings All Preferences there are TWO options: Mouse Touchpad and Mouse and Touchpad. The first takes you to the Xubuntu config, which is useless; the second is the Enlightenment settings, where you can change the cursor size and theme, but it has no effect whatsoever: the cursor stays exactly the same size. Is there a way to edit a config file somewhere to force the change? In testing this, half my shelf icons have now disappeared. Something in the size setting is conflicting with the icon settings. Does anyone know if e19 fixes any of these? ///Peter -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
Re: [e-users] Changing cursor size
On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 22:53:27 + Peter Flynn pe...@silmaril.ie wrote: On 11/18/2014 09:25 PM, Peter Flynn wrote: How do I change the size of the arrow cursor in e17? Has anyone any suggestions here? I cannot get the change to a larger size to work. ///Peter I *think* this may be a theme function, and you may need to hack the theme you're using. (but don't hold me to that...). Just thought I should answer, since no one else is. -- Regards, Christopher Barry Random geeky fortune: NEVER swerve to hit a lawyer riding a bicycle -- it might be your bicycle. -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
[e-users] Changing cursor size
How do I change the size of the arrow cursor in e17? In Settings All Preferences there are TWO options: Mouse Touchpad and Mouse and Touchpad. The first takes you to the Xubuntu config, which is useless; the second is the Enlightenment settings, where you can change the cursor size and theme, but it has no effect whatsoever: the cursor stays exactly the same size. Is there a way to edit a config file somewhere to force the change? In testing this, half my shelf icons have now disappeared. Something in the size setting is conflicting with the icon settings. Does anyone know if e19 fixes any of these? ///Peter -- Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration more Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=157005751iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ enlightenment-users mailing list enlightenment-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-users
