RE: Mutable Proto

2013-03-20 Thread Mariusz Nowak
+1! It would be great if someone will explain in detail why Object.setPrototypeOf is no go. We definitely need mutable prototype, but having it via __proto__ really breaks the language. Any function that blindly extends object with provided hash is affected e.g. extend(obj, { __proto__:

Re: Object.is steps are very thing

2013-03-20 Thread Tom Schuster
I like to disagree. I was quite familiar with the ES spec about a year ago and this still confused me. Only because this is pre-existing doesn't make the language very clear. Tom On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Rick Waldron waldron.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 7:56 PM,

Re: Mutable Proto

2013-03-20 Thread Rick Waldron
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 5:51 AM, Mariusz Nowak medikoo+mozilla@medikoo.com wrote: +1! It would be great if someone will explain in detail why Object.setPrototypeOf is no go. This was recorded as the resolution of record in January 2013

Re: Mutable Proto

2013-03-20 Thread Brendan Eich
Mariusz Nowak wrote: +1! It would be great if someone will explain in detail why Object.setPrototypeOf is no go. We've been over this many times, e.g. at https://mail.mozilla.org/pipermail/es-discuss/2012-May/022904.html To recap, 1. __proto__ is out in the field, a de-facto standard on

Re: Object.is steps are very thing

2013-03-20 Thread Brendan Eich
Tom Schuster wrote: I like to disagree. I was quite familiar with the ES spec about a year ago and this still confused me. Only because this is pre-existing doesn't make the language very clear. I agree it's a bit awkward learning to read every Clause 15 method spec in terms of the Clause 15

RE: Mutable Proto

2013-03-20 Thread Nathan Wall
I didn't get a direct response to my question about mutating proto on objects which don't inherit from Object.prototype, but I'm inferring from [1] that it won't be possible.  I find this unfortunate, but I realize this issue has seen a lot of discussion in the past and there are reasons for

Re: Mutable Proto

2013-03-20 Thread David Bruant
Le 20/03/2013 16:36, Nathan Wall a écrit : I didn't get a direct response to my question about mutating proto on objects which don't inherit from Object.prototype, but I'm inferring from [1] that it won't be possible. I find this unfortunate, but I realize this issue has seen a lot of

Re: Mutable Proto

2013-03-20 Thread David Bruant
Le 20/03/2013 16:15, Brendan Eich a écrit : To recap, 1. __proto__ is out in the field, a de-facto standard on mobile, and not going away. Adding another API doesn't help, it hurts. 2. SES and other secure subsets want same-frame (global object, realm) mashups of code that may use __proto__

Re: Mutable Proto

2013-03-20 Thread Andrea Giammarchi
I don't understand where is the problem ... any library that uses __proto__ can and should be updated with a shim waiting for next version of JS to support it. Object.setPrototypeOf = function (object, proto) { object.__proto__ = proto; return object; }; That does not look bad at all to me,

Re: Observability of NaN distinctions — is this a concern?

2013-03-20 Thread Jeff Walden
Negation on at least some x86-ish systems also produces another kind of NaN, because the trivial negation implementation is a sign-bit flip. This strikes me as similar to the endianness concerns of typed arrays, except probably far less harmful in practice. I don't see what can reasonably be

Re: Observability of NaN distinctions — is this a concern?

2013-03-20 Thread Allen Wirfs-Brock
On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:34 PM, Kevin Reid wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Allen Wirfs-Brock al...@wirfs-brock.com wrote: On Mar 20, 2013, at 10:09 AM, Kevin Reid wrote: Depending on what you mean by “ECMAScript code”, this may be false given the Typed Arrays extension, which

Re: Observability of NaN distinctions — is this a concern?

2013-03-20 Thread Brandon Benvie
On 3/20/2013 12:56 PM, Allen Wirfs-Brock wrote: If you're specifically talking about reading/writing TypedArray elements (really ArrayBuffers) you have to take into account the possibility that you can have different types overlaying the same buffer storage. Hence a NaN bit pattern might be

Re: Observability of NaN distinctions — is this a concern?

2013-03-20 Thread Allen Wirfs-Brock
On Mar 20, 2013, at 1:42 PM, Kevin Reid wrote: That normalization on read is is my case 1 above — it is necessary _for that implementation_. A conformant implementation could use a different strategy which does not normalize on Float64 read, and this would be unobservable, so the spec

Re: Mutable Proto

2013-03-20 Thread Andrea Giammarchi
never cared about IE much on mobile and I do not care about 100% or __proto__ support ... there is 100% of Object.prototype pollution support since ever and everybody knows that is a bad technique, specially done through direct property rather than through a descriptor. What is the point then ?

Re: Observability of NaN distinctions — is this a concern?

2013-03-20 Thread Kevin Reid
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Allen Wirfs-Brock al...@wirfs-brock.comwrote: On Mar 20, 2013, at 1:42 PM, Kevin Reid wrote: That normalization on read is is my case 1 above — it is necessary _for that implementation_. A conformant implementation could use a different strategy which does

Re: Observability of NaN distinctions — is this a concern?

2013-03-20 Thread Kenneth Russell
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 2:24 PM, Kevin Reid kpr...@google.com wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Allen Wirfs-Brock al...@wirfs-brock.com wrote: On Mar 20, 2013, at 1:42 PM, Kevin Reid wrote: That normalization on read is is my case 1 above — it is necessary _for that implementation_. A

Re: Patterns in parameter declarations: irrefutable?

2013-03-20 Thread Brendan Eich
The proposal we accepted, written by Andreas at http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=harmony:refutable_matching, seems clear. Patterns are refutable without an extra ? annotation. Andreas is using prefix-?, note well. /be Axel Rauschmayer wrote: Are patterns in parameter declarations

Re: Observability of NaN distinctions — is this a concern?

2013-03-20 Thread Allen Wirfs-Brock
On Mar 20, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Kenneth Russell wrote: The typed array specification in its original form deliberately avoided specifying normalization of NaNs upon writes to Float32Array and Float64Array. Doing so has no practical value and only imposes a performance hit, which is