[EVDL] EVLN: $35k Musk vs GM aura-race build the 1st mass-marketed 200mi EV
http://qz.com/252990/the-story-of-elon-musk-and-gms-race-to-build-the-first-mass-market-electric-car/ The story of Elon Musk and GM’s race to build the first mass-market electric car by Steve LeVine [20140824] [images http://img.qz.com/2014/08/tesla-factory.jpg Tesla factory - The next ones off the assembly line will be cheaper.Steve Jurvetson/Flickr (tesla-s) The Tesla S, for sale in La Jolla, Ca., in 2013 - Motor Trend Car of the Year.Reuters/Mike Blake http://img.qz.com/2014/08/actual-and-projected-prices-of-lithium-ion-batteries-large-format-used-in-volt-and-leaf-tesla-small-format_chartbuilder-20141.png (chart) http://img.qz.com/2014/08/bmw1.jpg BMW exhibition in Shanghai in 2013 - Musk’s preferred peer group.Reuters/Aly Song ] One of the hottest clashes in technology pits two pathmakers in the new era of electric cars—Tesla and General Motors. Both are developing pure electrics that cost roughly $35,000, travel 200 miles on a single charge, and appeal to the mass luxury market. The stakes are enormous. Most electrics have less than 100 miles of range. Experts regard 200 miles as a tipping point, enough to cure many potential electric-car buyers of “range anxiety,” the fear of being stranded when their battery expires. If GM and Tesla crack this, sales of individual electrics could jump from 2,000 or 3,000 vehicles a month to 15 to 20 times that rate, shaking up industries from cars to oil, which were until now certain that large-scale acceptance of electrics was perhaps decades away. It is a substantial gamble for both companies. Tesla CEO Elon Musk has more or less bet his company on the contest. GM’s existence is not in jeopardy if it loses, but the outcome could still determine its place in the next generation of automaking. The potential prize is not only profit, but outright technology leadership—the intangible aura that made Apple under Steve Jobs an outsized triumph. In this respect, the parvenu Tesla—just a decade old—holds the advantage. Musk’s first two models, with their grace, attitude and electronic showmanship, have dazzled critics, buyers and especially Wall Street. GM has impressed critics, too, with its Chevy Volt, which led the advent of plug-in hybrids, but there are doubts that it can best Musk in direct competition. However, if it can show it is generally Tesla’s equal, it would achieve unexpected street cred, while Musk would appear much more mortal. There already is a 200-mile car but it is expensive The only major 200-mile car currently is the Tesla S (pictured above). Its 60-kilowatt-hour (kWh) basic version promises 208 miles of range on a single charge, while the top-of-the-line 85-kWh car will go 265 miles. Musk says moreover that he plans to sell an upgraded battery for the original Tesla Roadster that will take it 400 miles on a single charge. But there is a price to such distance. The 208-mile S starts at around $70,000 and the 265-mile model at $80,000, with optional extras adding tens of thousands more. Musk said all along that his strategy was to break in to the industry with super-luxury vehicles, then move down-market. The 2008 Roadster debuted at a base price of $98,000 and advertised at 245 miles on a single charge. GM launched the Volt in 2011 at $41,000. But by last year, Tesla’s sensational success had it worried. Then-CEO Dan Akerson said Tesla was a threat, and assigned a group of employees to monitor the newcomer. In 2012, Akerson was overheard bucking up employees with the promise that GM was getting close to a 200-mile car, a vow he repeated last year as well. The angst has only deepened over the last 13 months. Wall Street has worked itself up into a frenzy over Tesla, doubling its share price to 78 times projected earnings—a dotcom-era number—compared with GM’s 7.5 times. Last month, a relaxed and confident Musk disclosed the name of his next-generation 200-mile car to a British journalist: the Model 3. It would be unveiled in late 2016 and go on sale the following year, he promised. Media- and image-savvy, he said it would be aimed at buyers, not of GM cars, but of BMW’s 3-Series, its $35,000 entry-level vehicle. Motorists bought 500,000 of the BMWs last year, and Musk predicts he will be selling that many vehicles per year by 2020. Two days later, LG Chemical said that it had a lithium-ion battery that, too, would be ready for a 200-mile car in 2016. LG did not say which carmaker wanted the battery, and GM remained silent. But LG is GM’s supplier, and most experts say its battery will go into a GM vehicle. Both companies declined to comment for this article. Musk publicly belittles (video) GM, refusing to concede that it is a true rival. Yet the mid-$30,000 price range puts him squarely on GM’s turf. For GM’s part, it simply cannot ignore Musk’s challenge. The contest has been joined. But the physics are daunting Getting 200 miles of range in a $35,000 car will require a battery that can leap over the best lithium-ion technology
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?
Now the dust has settled somewhat, does anyone has the insider knowledge of why Tesla abandoned the 40kWh pack and why, more interestingly, it didn't come with a supercharger option? I still think it would have a market, particularly in Asia and Europe where shorter average journeys are the norm - but only with an SC option. MW On 28 Aug 2014, at 14:51, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: how much range is enough...is it better to... decrease price without improving range or make electric vehicles go further on a charge? Why not do both? Amen. I like the new Nissan concept of a range of batteries to match the individual. I do not want to spend extra 10's of thousands of dollars for an extra 50 miles range that I only need 2% of the time. That makes that 2% travel very expensive. Back when TESLA offered three range batteries, the cost difference was something like an extra $50,000 to go from their smallest battery to the largest. That means if one generally uses the Tesla for local travel, then those once a month trips over 250 miles are costing an extra $50,000. For that money, one can rent a gas car EVERY weekend for 10 years including gas, and not have to lug around the extra 500 lbs of battery every day commuting. On the other hand, if one travels 200 miles often, then there is no question, the extra $50,000 gives you a great EV to make the trip. Bob, WB4APR ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?
I can understand all the issues people have raised on this thread. The simple fact is that hardly any of the Renault range is selling. As a long term EVer, I would not be swayed by the battery lease idea unless it was very cheap - $10/month or so. I have sufficient faith in the battery tech of all the mainstream production EVs due to the empirical data we now have - bearing in mind some early LEAFs and i-Mievs have been going for 4 years now and have many 10's of thousands of miles on them. There have been extremely few horror stories about failing cells and indeed from Tesla we hear the exact opposite - cells degrading much less than anticipated. For my money, Renault had better start offering the ZEV range including packs out-right as an option very soon ... or I'll be selling my shares! MW On 28 Aug 2014, at 22:26, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On 28 Aug 2014 at 13:47, Ed Blackmond via EV wrote: I see this as the way to make the econobox electric vehicles possible. The Nissan Leaf would sell for the same price as its essential twin the Versa and the battery pack would be leased. This is what Renault (Nissan's French partner) is doing with their Zöe, and I think with their other EVs too. Personally, I don't like some of the terms of their lease, and probably wouldn't buy a Zöe for that reason, but that's just me. From what I've read, part of the idea behind their lease - they'll sell you the car, but not the battery - is to keep the car's selling price low. I think the battery lease costs about what you'd spend on on fuel for a comparable car for a typical monthly driving distance; someone please correct me of that's wrong. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 2014 Mitsubishi MiEV Bargain basement EV
Gosh, that's interesting! The VW e-up! is out-selling the BMW i3! MW On 29 Aug 2014, at 00:41, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Since when has the MiEV sold more units than the Leaf? Never according to: http://evobsession.com/world-electrified-vehicle-sales-2013/ #1 is Leaf, #2 is Volt, #3 is Prius PIP #4 is Tesla #5 is Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (must be overseas) ... #20 (out of 21) is the MiEv Al ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] DC2DC times 2
Hi Buddy, Why not run your heaters from the main pack voltage rather than changing the voltage twice. I use 2kW 220vac ceramic heater cores taken out of cheap fan heaters. They are about 4 square and supposedly very safe as the resistance rises with temperature so they never reach an unsafe temperature even if the fan stops.(Positive temperature coefficient) My cores are running on a 320v nominal voltage which can be over 340v when charged but have been working for years trouble free. I set them in the original heater matrix with the matrix cores cut out and fixed them with araldite. A simple air flow switch made from a float switch only allows heat when the fan is running for extra safety. You could string two 110v ones in series if 220v cores are not available in the US or Ebay from Europe. Use a high voltage relay to control them on and off. I use a high voltage DC semiconductor relay for temperature control using a cycling timer. It wasn't cheap but handles fast pulses better than a relay. Russ www.evalbum.com/1454 Lotus Elise EV Vortex GTEV Ride on lawnmower EV On Fri, 29/8/14, Buddy Mills via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Subject: [EVDL] DC2DC times 2 To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' ev@lists.evdl.org Date: Friday, 29 August, 2014, 1:46 I need some help with spec(s) on a filter diode. I am attempting to hook up two DC to DC in my car along with a battery for my Aux 12volts. Yes, I know that seems excessive but I need the extra to run my 12dc to 110vac inverter that runs my heaters. It has been recommended here on the list serve that I place a diode on the output as to not give feedback to either of the DC2DC. My problem is I don't know what specifications I need to use. Plus if someone could also tell where I could purchase it I would be most appreciated. I know that there are quite a few of you on the list that would probably know this off the top of their head. Here is some info that I know. Battery is a Durcel AGM SL34M (20 amp hour rate - 55, Reserve Capacity:120 DC2DC #1 Zivan NG1 - 50amps DC2DC #2 Azure DC-DC750 - 56amps DC2AC inverter Cobra 2575 - 2500watts cont. - 5000watt peak 110vac - 1500 watt Heater Thanks for your assistance, Buddy Mills buddymi...@cox.net Look mom, no gas. http://www.evalbum.com/2887 Disclaimer: No animals were harmed or killed in the process of writing this email. Any stories to the contrary are, for the most part, either fictional or greatly exaggerated. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?
On 08/29/2014 03:36 AM, Martin WINLOW via EV wrote: Now the dust has settled somewhat, does anyone has the insider knowledge of why Tesla abandoned the 40kWh pack and why, more interestingly, it didn't come with a supercharger option? I still think it would have a market, particularly in Asia and Europe where shorter average journeys are the norm - but only with an SC option. The SuperCharger network is intended primarily to facilitate cross country travel. To cost effectively implement the network, node spacing needs to be maximized. That means the network is lowest cost when it is configured for longest range cars. I am astonished (and EXTREMELY pleased) that Tesla has made such rapid progress in the SuperCharger network. A network for shorter range cars would necessarily develop much more slowly. At this time, Tesla is supply constrained; they have little interest in selling lower priced cars; they are selling all the 85kwh cars they can produce. Why make an effort to sell lower priced 40kwh cars? In the future, we may well see much more closely spaced SuperChargers. For now, Tesla is pursuing the right course. IMHO. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?
Why make an effort to sell lower priced 40kwh cars? - Right now, I agree, but ... because, as I previously stated, in Europe and much of Asia, long distance is not the issue, it's car cost and range anxiety. If you can sell a car for $10k less without the buyer having to worry about range anxiety (because there is a good rapid charge infrastructure - SC or something else) then you'll sell more cars. I appreciate that T is concentrating on supplying as many MS as it can at the moment... but what about 2 or 3 years time. I would much rather buy an MS with 150 mile range than a Gen3 with the same range even if it cost $10k more. I think lots of others would, too. We just don't need 300 mile range, or 200 for that matter, 95% of the time. Why cart around all that unnecessary weight and why pay for it, too, in the first place? MW On 29 Aug 2014, at 12:16, Willie2 via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On 08/29/2014 03:36 AM, Martin WINLOW via EV wrote: Now the dust has settled somewhat, does anyone has the insider knowledge of why Tesla abandoned the 40kWh pack and why, more interestingly, it didn't come with a supercharger option? I still think it would have a market, particularly in Asia and Europe where shorter average journeys are the norm - but only with an SC option. The SuperCharger network is intended primarily to facilitate cross country travel. To cost effectively implement the network, node spacing needs to be maximized. That means the network is lowest cost when it is configured for longest range cars. I am astonished (and EXTREMELY pleased) that Tesla has made such rapid progress in the SuperCharger network. A network for shorter range cars would necessarily develop much more slowly. At this time, Tesla is supply constrained; they have little interest in selling lower priced cars; they are selling all the 85kwh cars they can produce. Why make an effort to sell lower priced 40kwh cars? In the future, we may well see much more closely spaced SuperChargers. For now, Tesla is pursuing the right course. IMHO. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] DC2DC times 2
Thanks Cor, That is exactly what I needed. Buddy -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Cor van de Water via EV Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 1:48 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC2DC times 2 Buddy, You can use one of the Schottky diodes that is ideal for this architecture, typically they come in a block with 2 diodes integrated and ready to mount to a heatsink, the only thing you need to take care of is to insulate the diode housing from the chassis of your vehicle as the housing has the output to the + of your battery while the chassis of your vehicle is always connected to the aux battery negative. You can find these diodes searching Ebay with Schottky 200A or Schottky CNQ Examples are the IR 203CNQ100 (100V, 200A) or 301CNQ045 (45V, 300A) Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Buddy Mills via EV Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 5:47 PM To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' Subject: [EVDL] DC2DC times 2 I need some help with spec(s) on a filter diode. I am attempting to hook up two DC to DC in my car along with a battery for my Aux 12volts. Yes, I know that seems excessive but I need the extra to run my 12dc to 110vac inverter that runs my heaters. It has been recommended here on the list serve that I place a diode on the output as to not give feedback to either of the DC2DC. My problem is I don't know what specifications I need to use. Plus if someone could also tell where I could purchase it I would be most appreciated. I know that there are quite a few of you on the list that would probably know this off the top of their head. Here is some info that I know. Battery is a Durcel AGM SL34M (20 amp hour rate - 55, Reserve Capacity:120 DC2DC #1 Zivan NG1 - 50amps DC2DC #2 Azure DC-DC750 - 56amps DC2AC inverter Cobra 2575 - 2500watts cont. - 5000watt peak 110vac - 1500 watt Heater Thanks for your assistance, Buddy Mills buddymi...@cox.net Look mom, no gas. http://www.evalbum.com/2887 Disclaimer: No animals were harmed or killed in the process of writing this email. Any stories to the contrary are, for the most part, either fictional or greatly exaggerated. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 2014 Mitsubishi MiEV Bargain basement EV
That report is 2013 before the i3 even wnet on sale. -Original Message- From: Martin WINLOW [mailto:m...@winlow.co.uk] Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 5:54 AM To: Robert Bruninga; EVDL Post Message Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 2014 Mitsubishi MiEV Bargain basement EV Gosh, that's interesting! The VW e-up! is out-selling the BMW i3! MW On 29 Aug 2014, at 00:41, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Since when has the MiEV sold more units than the Leaf? Never according to: http://evobsession.com/world-electrified-vehicle-sales-2013/ #1 is Leaf, #2 is Volt, #3 is Prius PIP #4 is Tesla #5 is Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (must be overseas) ... #20 (out of 21) is the MiEv Al ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] DC2DC times 2
Seems like a very inefficienct system. If you want heat, just run resistance heat directly from the EV voltage. That is 100% efficient and costs nothing in complexity. Just series whatever number of 120v heater elements in series is needed to reach the pack voltage. And of course switch to DC fans. Or if you like the existing housings, just run a cheap $25 25W inverter to still run the fans on AC, but the elemetns on the DC. And of course bypass ALL switches, and contacts, and cutouts, and themrostates with RC sunbbers so they don't burn out on the first time they are used. Bob -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Buddy Mills via EV Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 8:47 PM To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' Subject: [EVDL] DC2DC times 2 I need some help with spec(s) on a filter diode. I am attempting to hook up two DC to DC in my car along with a battery for my Aux 12volts. Yes, I know that seems excessive but I need the extra to run my 12dc to 110vac inverter that runs my heaters. It has been recommended here on the list serve that I place a diode on the output as to not give feedback to either of the DC2DC. My problem is I don't know what specifications I need to use. Plus if someone could also tell where I could purchase it I would be most appreciated. I know that there are quite a few of you on the list that would probably know this off the top of their head. Here is some info that I know. Battery is a Durcel AGM SL34M (20 amp hour rate - 55, Reserve Capacity:120 DC2DC #1 Zivan NG1 - 50amps DC2DC #2 Azure DC-DC750 - 56amps DC2AC inverter Cobra 2575 - 2500watts cont. - 5000watt peak 110vac - 1500 watt Heater Thanks for your assistance, Buddy Mills buddymi...@cox.net Look mom, no gas. http://www.evalbum.com/2887 Disclaimer: No animals were harmed or killed in the process of writing this email. Any stories to the contrary are, for the most part, either fictional or greatly exaggerated. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?
in Europe... Asia, long distance is not the issue, it's car cost and range anxiety. If you can sell a car for $10k less without the buyer having to worry about range anxiety (because there is a good rapid charge infrastructure...) then you'll sell more cars. The goal is not to just sell more EVs to everyone, especially if the car does not match the individual's need. That would be WORSE PR than no sale at all. The goal is to stop burning fossil fuel for everyday local commuting which can be done better/cheaper/and more conveniently (never having to refuel) in an EV. [as long as it is plugged in overnight (or at work) while parked]. EV's CHARGE WHILE PARKED. If ANY driver expects to have to do recharging on the road while in use, then that driver and application should NOT by considering an EV. Period. Trying to force the value-promise of the EV (ideal for daily commuting) into the long distance, drive anywhere/anytime versatility of a gas car is doing a disservice to the future of EV's. ANYONE who buys an EV with the idea of daily public-charging no matter how fast does not understand the value promise of EV's and will rapidly tire of the everyday/ALWAYS need of finding a place to charge and a daily way to WASTE X amount of time waiting for the process. This will turn off more people to EV's than the few added sells would gain. Refueling ANY car is a real pain in the rear. It is avoided by everyone. Buying an EV with the idea of having an EV infrastructure and frequent public charging and have to move the cars every hour all day long to make up the difference is unsustainable and a greater inconvenience. We need to stop focusing on range (and public charging). Focus on educating drivers of the EV value-promise... The maximum value to the owner of the ultimate in vehicle convenience, that is, Charging-while-parked, and beginning every use with a full tank. If that model does not meet one's need, then an EV is not for them. Remember, some EV Charging stations are like Aluminum siding, fancy windows, Gutter guards, chimney cleaning, etc, that is, a third-party product that salesmen can use the fear tactic to sell to other people who maybe don't need it. Bob, WB4APR ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?
On 08/29/2014 08:38 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: The goal is to stop burning fossil fuel for everyday local commuting which can be done better/cheaper/and more conveniently (never having to refuel) in an EV. [as long as it is plugged in overnight (or at work) while parked]. EV's CHARGE WHILE PARKED. If ANY driver expects to have to do recharging on the road while in use, then that driver and application should NOT by considering an EV. Period. I wonder where you live? And how closely you have looked at the SuperCharger network? Your usna.edu address indicates Maryland? If so, you can drive a Tesla all up and down the east coast and to Chicago and beyond. And, soon, MANY other places. Drive a couple of hours, then take a head and coffee break for half an hour. I agree that the vast majority of charges should be done overnight and without depending on public J1772s. And that the commercial development of J1772 networks is a great disappointment. Using that charging infrastructure on a daily basis is far too expensive and far too inconvenient. It is nice to have as an emergency backup. Though RV parks are more useful and more prevalent. However, where the SuperCharger network is built out, road trips are very easy and convenient. Especially with a 85kwh battery. I've posted of my trips from Texas to Kansas and Texas to Wisconsin this past winter. South of the first SuperCharger in Normal Illinois, that trip was quite tedious. From Illinois to Wisconsin and back was smooth as silk. In the near term, I'm looking forward to having Texas connected to Florida and Georgia and to Oklahoma, Kansas, and Colorado. THEN I will really be doing some traveling! I check this site almost daily: http://supercharge.info/ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?
On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 1:36 AM, Martin WINLOW via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Now the dust has settled somewhat, does anyone has the insider knowledge of why Tesla abandoned the 40kWh pack and why, more interestingly, it didn't come with a supercharger option? I remember reading some time ago that there were so few 40kWh pack orders that it was cheaper for them to just make the 60kWh packs and software limit them to 40kWh for those few early orders, thus nearly eliminating a SKU. I'm sure they would have no trouble starting up the 40kWh production for other markets if the demand were high enough. As for no supercharger option, my guess is that it wasn't a technical issue but instead a cost cutting issue. The price of the car didn't need to include the few grand added to the price. -- David D. Nelson http://evalbum.com/1328 http://www.levforum.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?
On 29 Aug 2014 at 9:38, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: We need to stop focusing on range (and public charging). Focus on educating drivers of the EV value-promise. Maybe I'm just seeing this with older eyes than you are, but it seems to me that we've been trying to do just that for nearly a half century. It hasn't gotten us very far yet. In fact, I'd say that Tesla's range and their superchargers have probably put far more EVs on the road since 2008 than we EV educators have since 1967. (The fact that they're just bloody good cars doesn't hurt, either.) IIRC, the average person thinks that he needs about 150 miles of EV range. He doesn't really, but that's his perception. In most of the world, and certainly in the US, perception trumps reality. Hundreds (maybe thousands) of EV startups have stumbled over that sad truth. People have certain needs and expectations (they're not the same thing) for their cars. There's no percentage in fighting that. Now, if you're building something other than a car or light truck as an EV, that might be another matter. I think this is one reason that ebikes are an EV success story - potential customers' expectations for them are quite different from their expectations for 4-wheeled vehicles. They're also so cheap as to almost be an impulse purchase for some people. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?
On Aug 29, 2014, at 10:27 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: IIRC, the average person thinks that he needs about 150 miles of EV range. He doesn't really, but that's his perception. That depends on your definition of, need. Sure, 90% of trips are under 150 miles -- but just think of everywhere you might want to go and everything you might want to do that's 80 miles away. Especially on the West Coast, and most especially in those flyover states, an awful lot of stuff fits in that 80- or even 100-mile radius. The usual suggestion is to rent or use some other means of travel for those trips -- or even to cast aspersions on the character of the person for wanting to be so wasteful as to travel in the first place. In reality, that takes those day trips from something you might do on the spur of the moment after breakfast on a Saturday morning to something that requires extra planning, extra expense, extra hassle...and all that adds up. Now, is the extra cost one pays for a gasoline vehicle really worth the convenience of that type of freedom? Clearly, for so many people, the answer is a resounding, YES! BEVs make awesome commuter cars, but they're not going to be replacements for gasoline cars until you can put 500 miles a day on one in arbitrary directions with no more concern for getting stranded than you might have for running out of gas. As an example...it's half past noon here in Tempe as I type. I could, if I wanted, hop in the car right now and drive up to Flagstaff, eat an early dinner, then drive around until I found a motel with vacancy, spend the night there, and be at the Grand Canyon before sunrise tomorrow morning with the camera already set up on the tripod. And maybe I'd decide on a whim to spend Sunday at Monument Valley? That's not remotely possible even with an 85 kWh Tesla -- but it's not even something to think twice about with my '68 VW Westfalia. For many, even if they don't iactually/i do that sort of thing, they're not going to consider an EV (at least as a primary car) until it offers that as a possibility. And that's the great thing about the Volt: it does both. For most people, it's basically a pure BEV -- but they can still hop in it on a Friday afternoon, spend the evening and night in Flagstaff and the rest of the weekend at the Grand Canyon, and be back home Sunday evening and still drive electrically to work Monday morning. Do BEVs represent the long-range future of vehicles? No doubt. But it's even more certain that PHEVs represent the immediate future of EVs -- especially considering how many non-plugin hybrids are already on the road and how relatively straightforward it is to retrofit them for at least enough plugin electric range to make it to the grocery store and back. For new models, manufacturers just have to start adding plugs...and imagine how much gas we'd save even if only the first five miles of every commute was all electric _and_ what that would do to public perception of EVs. Cheers, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140829/894eb228/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?
On Aug 28, 2014, at 9:44 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: However, for a long as I've followed EVs (and that's over 40 years) the battery has always been the main source of reliability problems. For me, too. That's why I'm looking to use the smallest pack I can get away with for my 1964 1/2 Mustang PHEV conversion, putting extra care into thermal management (what with the car being parked outside in the Phoenix metro area)...and, even still, mentally preparing myself for replacing whatever pack I go with sooner rather than later. Even if the pack is still at 80% capacity in ten years (which is way more than I'd reasonably anticipate), there'll be newer batteries that are cheaper, lighter, smaller, and have more capacity before then. If I went with a mass-manufacturered EV, I'd feel regret about what to do with the old batteries or worry if I was getting fair value on a trade-in or the like. Instead, so long as it doesn't die outright, I can use the old battery -- whatever I decide to go with -- as the start of an whole-house UPS to supplement the solar PV roof array. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140829/2ebebba0/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?
To Ben Goren, in particular and all of the members of the EVDL in general, I am not arguing with you and your need for range which can presently be met only with gasoline or diesel according to my interpretation of your statements. In the USA we have been surveyed and this data was presented to the public. It does not declare a definitive result based upon fuel type, only the mileage driven on a typical trip: 85% of driven trip miles were under 39 miles. Also, 99% of driven trip miles were less than 100 miles , leaving only 1% of trip miles being over 100 miles. There being about 300,000,000 vehicles driven in the USA. Only one percent is three million vehicles (Perhaps yours Mr. Goren,) driven over 100 miles on trips . You make very valid points in you statements, but, the other 99% (including me,) have different needs and my choice is a BEV as it suits my needs. (And I am not driving to the Grand Canyon this year. I simply state my opinion, Chose what meets your needs. On 8/29/14, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Aug 28, 2014, at 9:44 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: However, for a long as I've followed EVs (and that's over 40 years) the battery has always been the main source of reliability problems. For me, too. That's why I'm looking to use the smallest pack I can get away with for my 1964 1/2 Mustang PHEV conversion, putting extra care into thermal management (what with the car being parked outside in the Phoenix metro area)...and, even still, mentally preparing myself for replacing whatever pack I go with sooner rather than later. Even if the pack is still at 80% capacity in ten years (which is way more than I'd reasonably anticipate), there'll be newer batteries that are cheaper, lighter, smaller, and have more capacity before then. If I went with a mass-manufacturered EV, I'd feel regret about what to do with the old batteries or worry if I was getting fair value on a trade-in or the like. Instead, so long as it doesn't die outright, I can use the old battery -- whatever I decide to go with -- as the start of an whole-house UPS to supplement the solar PV roof array. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140829/2ebebba0/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Dennis Lee Miles (*evprofes...@evprofessor.com evprofes...@evprofessor.com)* * Founder:**EV Tech. Institute Inc.* *Phone #* *(863) 289-0690 (12 noon to 12 midnight Eastern US Time)* *Educating yourself, does not mean you were **stupid; it means, you are intelligent enough, **to know, that there is plenty left to learn!* * You Tube Video link: http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss * ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?
I think one could argue that if you take a 100 mile trip once every 6 weeks, an EV for everything else might work. Renting once every 6 weeks would be reasonable, perhaps. However, aside from the Tesla, 100 mile trips aren't possible. More like 55 to 75 depending on vehicle and conditions. So, renting would be more frequent than 6 weeks and, as Ben says, probably past being a reasonable choice. Of course there are other factors. - Do you own two cars? - Can you charge at your destination (e.g. work)? - Is it easy to rent or borrow a car? - Can you charge at home? ... Peri -- Original Message -- From: Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Dennis Miles dmiles33...@gmail.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 29-Aug-14 2:54:22 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost? On Aug 29, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Dennis Miles dmiles33...@gmail.com wrote: 85% of driven trip miles were under 39 miles. Also, 99% of driven trip miles were less than 100 miles , leaving only 1% of trip miles being over 100 miles. Those statistics seem quite reasonable. What's _not_ reasonable is your interpretation of what they mean. Let's say those statistics apply to a not-atypical person who might make, say, fifteen trips per week. That's two trips five days a week for commuting to and from work, and another five trips for things like grocery shopping or social functions or taking the kids to soccer practice or whatever. In reality, it's probably a lot more once we add in lunch trips at work and doctor's appointments and picking the kids up from school and all the other things people use cars for, but we'll be conservative and go with fifteen trips per week. Eighty-five percent of fifteen works out to a bit over twice a week that this person needs more than 40 miles of range -- a statistic that passes the sniff test, at least for me. A car limited to a 40 mile range is simply a non-starter for that person -- especially if, as is so common, the need for such range is unpredictable. (And, of course, you've got to get back and have some reserves, so you need about a 100-mile range to be able to make a 40-mile trip, unless you can really count on rapid charging at the destination, something we're a long way from. Even the Leaf doesn't come close to cutting it for this person, with only five EPA miles of Murphy factor.) Fifteen trips a week is 780 trips a year. One percent of that is about eight trips a year...or one such trip every six weeks. Again, a car limited to a 100 mile range is a complete non-starter for this person, again particularly if the long-distance trips happen with minimal predictability. Maybe I've misinterpreted your definition of trip, such that the daily commute is one trip, not two. Take my figures and divide them in half or double them as appropriate; every week this person is making at least one over-40-mile trip, and it's a few months between hundred-mile trips. This is nowhere near enough to meaningfully change the analysis. It makes a great soundbite to say that only 1% of trips are over 100 miles...but that betrays either ignorance of the true scale of car use or a less-than-honest distortion of that scale. Again, I'm all in favor of EVs of all types. For two-car families, it almost seems criminal to not have at least one EV, ideally a BEV. It seems similarly irresponsible to buy a new car that isn't at least a PHEV, or to refrain from converting all but the wimpiest of hybrids into plugins. What I won't do is pretend that BEVs are reasonable as the exclusive option for any but a negligibly small fraction of the driving public -- and I think this pretense of yours may well do more harm to the EV cause than anything else an individual can do. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140829/581f18be/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?
On Fri Aug 29 15:03:02 PDT 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said: I think one could argue that if you take a 100 mile trip once every 6 weeks, an EV for everything else might work. Renting once every 6 weeks would be reasonable, perhaps. However, aside from the Tesla, 100 mile trips aren't possible. More like 55 to 75 depending on vehicle and conditions. So, renting would be more frequent than 6 weeks and, as Ben says, probably past being a reasonable choice. Of course there are other factors. - Do you own two cars? - Can you charge at your destination (e.g. work)? - Is it easy to rent or borrow a car? - Can you charge at home? Can you rent on the spur of the moment without wasting hours of time? -- Try my Sensible Email package! https://sourceforge.net/projects/sensibleemail/ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?
Yes. Rental companies have those type of agreements - you get a key fob or something like that and can reserve a car online and minutes later go pick it up. Also, there's flex car and car-2-go. Peri -- Original Message -- From: John Lussmyer cou...@casadelgato.com To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org; Peri Hartman pe...@kotatko.com Sent: 29-Aug-14 3:40:12 PM Subject: Re: EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost? On Fri Aug 29 15:03:02 PDT 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said: I think one could argue that if you take a 100 mile trip once every 6 weeks, an EV for everything else might work. Renting once every 6 weeks would be reasonable, perhaps. However, aside from the Tesla, 100 mile trips aren't possible. More like 55 to 75 depending on vehicle and conditions. So, renting would be more frequent than 6 weeks and, as Ben says, probably past being a reasonable choice. Of course there are other factors. - Do you own two cars? - Can you charge at your destination (e.g. work)? - Is it easy to rent or borrow a car? - Can you charge at home? Can you rent on the spur of the moment without wasting hours of time? -- Try my Sensible Email package! https://sourceforge.net/projects/sensibleemail/ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?
On Aug 29, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I think one could argue that if you take a 100 mile trip once every 6 weeks, an EV for everything else might work. Renting once every 6 weeks would be reasonable, perhaps. For some, perhaps. It's definitely much less convenient than get-in-the-car-and-go -- you've got to make reservations, get to the rental place during business hours, deal with all the paperwork, return the car during business hours, make sure you drop it off with a full tank...especially if you were looking to get an early start or come back late at night, that starts to turn into either or both a major inconvenience or significant additional expense. Possibly _very_ significant if you have to take time off work to pick up and / or return the car and pay for an additional day or two of rental fees. Basically, unless you're already renting for longer trips, switching to renting probably isn't going to be something you consider. Most people who rent cars do so after flying to their destination, and only small percentages do so in lieu of driving their own cars. BEVs aren't going to change the mental dynamics of that situation. But there's a larger problem. If everybody who currently drives their own vehicle for 80+ mile trips now needs to rent a car, those car rental companies need to dramatically expand and add huge numbers of gasoline cars to their fleets -- and have that much more parking space capacity both for their own vehicles and those of their clients, and all the rest. That cuts an awful lot into expected environmental gains as an whole -- you've still got huge numbers of gasoline cars being made and driven, plus being dumped onto the used car market after a year. Again, contrast that with the Volt and presumed future PHEVs with similar specs: they're pure electric BEVs for Dennis's 85% of trips, and they're 40% electric for 100-mile trips. And all this in a single vehicle, with no need for a second one. It'll be fantastic when BEVs can compete with that...but that day is a looong time coming. In the mean time, BEVs as a great possibility for the second car for families that're going to have two cars anyway, and PHEVs in place of pure gasoline cars for all the rest. And, please, let's not pretend otherwise! Cheers, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140829/ad8457b6/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?
You bring up a lot of useful considerations, Ben. I'll just quibble somewhat with your conclusion below about BEVs as a second car. ...for families that are going to have two cars anyway... Actually a lot of folks are reporting that what becomes the second car is the ICE, not the BEV. That's our experience, too. We drive the electric car on the vast majority of our trips, while the ICE car is used rarely. Of course YMMV. With current tech, something like the Volt makes sense for a single car family when usage patterns (and budget) requires some percentage of long trips beyond affordable electric range and/or fast charging. But for a two car family the possibilities open up a bit more, and that's where trip length statistics favor the BEV as being the first car covering most of the trips. Maybe unexpectedly so, for some folks. The Volt can be a good second car in that scenario. So, bottom line, it's good to have choices right now. People have different needs to meet. As you pointed out, all the options we're discussing help transfer miles to electric. As the battery tech and charging infrastructure continue to develop, the BEV configuration becomes more and more applicable to more and more driving patterns. Cheers, -Jamie On 8/29/14 4:43 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote: On Aug 29, 2014, at 3:03 PM, Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I think one could argue that if you take a 100 mile trip once every 6 weeks, an EV for everything else might work. Renting once every 6 weeks would be reasonable, perhaps. For some, perhaps. It's definitely much less convenient than get-in-the-car-and-go -- you've got to make reservations, get to the rental place during business hours, deal with all the paperwork, return the car during business hours, make sure you drop it off with a full tank...especially if you were looking to get an early start or come back late at night, that starts to turn into either or both a major inconvenience or significant additional expense. Possibly _very_ significant if you have to take time off work to pick up and / or return the car and pay for an additional day or two of rental fees. Basically, unless you're already renting for longer trips, switching to renting probably isn't going to be something you consider. Most people who rent cars do so after flying to their destination, and only small percentages do so in lieu of driving their own cars. BEVs aren't going to change the mental dynamics of that situation. But there's a larger problem. If everybody who currently drives their own vehicle for 80+ mile trips now needs to rent a car, those car rental companies need to dramatically expand and add huge numbers of gasoline cars to their fleets -- and have that much more parking space capacity both for their own vehicles and those of their clients, and all the rest. That cuts an awful lot into expected environmental gains as an whole -- you've still got huge numbers of gasoline cars being made and driven, plus being dumped onto the used car market after a year. Again, contrast that with the Volt and presumed future PHEVs with similar specs: they're pure electric BEVs for Dennis's 85% of trips, and they're 40% electric for 100-mile trips. And all this in a single vehicle, with no need for a second one. It'll be fantastic when BEVs can compete with that...but that day is a looong time coming. In the mean time, BEVs as a great possibility for the second car for families that're going to have two cars anyway, and PHEVs in place of pure gasoline cars for all the rest. And, please, let's not pretend otherwise! Cheers, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140829/ad8457b6/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?
On Aug 29, 2014, at 4:32 PM, Jamie K via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I'll just quibble somewhat with your conclusion below about BEVs as a second car. Excellent point. Obviously, a car that's superior (and actually used) for 85% of driving should be considered the primary car -- even if such a car generally isn't an option as the only car for a single-car family. As the battery tech and charging infrastructure continue to develop, the BEV configuration becomes more and more applicable to more and more driving patterns. Absolutely, and that's a great deal about what's so exciting right now. We're actually at a point where a BEV _can_ be an only car for at least a few people, and where it can be the first car -- using your reformulation of my sloppy usage -- for the majority. And, we're definitely at the point where an almost-always-electric PHEV can be the only, primary, or secondary car for just about anybody. Not that long ago, options such as we have today were wishful fantasy b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140829/86e55f20/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: As EV battery prices fall ?More range or lower 100mi EV cost?
85% of driven trip miles were under 39 miles. Also, 99% of driven trip miles were less than 100 miles , leaving only 1% of trip miles being over 100 miles. Less than one percent of trips are over 100 miles. That suggests that three trips per year are over 100 miles. Not having the original source you have confused the data, possibly because of my presentation, of the original data. Sorry about that. Driven trip miles are per calendar day. There are 365 days per year, and one percent is 3.65 days with trips over 100 miles for 99 % of automobile drivers. Then One percent drive in excess of 100 miles each day , that is three million drivers who regularly drive in excess of 100 miles in their daily total miles driven. I am sorry to have confused the issue. I had an excellent graphic illustrating this data from the same US Government agency who performed the research study, but I lost it when my computer hard drive crashed last Spring. Perhaps it is still available on the internet but my service (Hughesnet) limits my usage toward the end of the month when my allotment is exceeded... Dennis Lee Miles evprofes...@evprofessor.com Founder:*EV Tech. Institute Inc.* *Phone #* *(863) 289-0690 (12 noon to 12 midnight Eastern US Time)* *Educating yourself, does not mean you were **stupid; it means, you are intelligent enough, **to know, that there is plenty left to learn!* * You Tube Video link: http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss * ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
