[EVDL] EVLN: BMW flashes its beautiful i3 EVs joins Hitachi-Capital fleet
http://fleetworld.co.uk/news/2015/Mar/BMW-i3-joins-Hitachi-Capital-fleet/0434018725
BMW i3 joins Hitachi Capital fleet
by Natalie Middleton 04 Mar 2015
[image] The BMW i3 at Hitachi The BMW i3 at Hitachi
Hitachi Capital Vehicle Solutions has added a BMW i3 [EV] to its internal
fleet for use as a pool car, with plans to add an Audi A3 e-tron in the
coming months.
The company has opted for the range extender i3 to meet employee needs,
backed up by the EV charging points at its Newbury office and Trowbridge
site.
The new vehicle joins the company’s existing Nissan LEAF [EVs] and Vauxhall
Ampera [pih] that it has been running since 2011. Hitachi Capital Commercial
Vehicle Solutions has also supported alternative fuel vehicle trials with
Nissan and British Gas, which saw 28 pure electric vans used by engineers in
regular service – as a result an order for an additional 100 pure electric
Nissan e-NV200 vehicles was placed in 2014.
Tim Bowden, head of operations at Hitachi Capital Car Solutions, commented:
“Over just the last five years we have seen countless new technologies come
to the market. From smart phones and tablets to pure EVs and now even
driverless cars, technology is part of our everyday lives. At Hitachi
Capital, our mission is to enable our clients access to and the ability to
take full advantage of new technology, ensuring its success in the
marketplace for a greener, cleaner future.”
[© fleetworld.co.uk]
http://www.indystar.com/story/money/2015/03/04/auto-review-bmw-i8-bmw-i3/24317407/
Auto review: BMW flashes its beautiful i3s and i8s
Casey Williams March 4, 2015
[video flash
Parked at Redondo Beach during a trip to California, Casey Williams took two
hours to shoot five minutes of usable video. People kept coming up, snapping
photos and asking questions. They liked it, too. Casey Williams/For The Star
video flash
The BMW i3 is smooth and spirited, but aims more at daily commuters over
weekend enthusiasts, says automotive journalist Casey Williams. Casey
Williams/For The Star
]
...
[image
http://www.themalaymailonline.com/images/sized/ez/drive131015bmw-i3_840_538_100.jpg
Final checks before this BMW i3 electric car rolls off the BMW factory in
Leipzig September 18, 2013. — Reuters pic
]
...
http://www.theday.com/national-business/20150304/automakers-still-believe-in-electric-vehicles
Automakers still believe in electric vehicles
March 04. 2015 By DAVID McHUGH and GREG KELLER Associated Press
[image
http://www.theday.com/storyimage/NL/20150304/BIZ03/303049967/AR/0/AR-303049967.jpg
An employee of German car manufacturer BMW controls a production line of
electric drive modules for BMW i8 and BMW i3 plug-in hybrid cars in
Dingolfing, Germany. Matthias Schrader/AP photo
]
...
https://www.edmunds.com/bmw/i3/2015/
2015 BMW i3 Hatchback
Mar 4, 2015
i3 is the most efficient in current market. It is the lightest EV (thanks to
CFRP). I can get 4mi/kWh easily. Battery is 22kwh, but only drive able with
19Wh. VW eGolf ...
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[EVDL] EVLN: Kia Soul EV Charges Up its Hamsters w/ 2nd Canadian award win
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1269598-2015-kia-soul-ev-charging-up-the-hamsters/ 2015 Kia Soul EV: Charging Up the Hamsters By Jim Meachen, MyCarData and Ted Biederman | March 2, 2015 [image http://img.theepochtimes.com/n3/eet-content/uploads/2015/03/02/Kia-Soul_EV_2015_1600x1200-676x450.jpg 2015 Kia Soul EV (Courtesy of NetCarShow.com) ] Kia picked the perfect vehicle for its first electric car effort and surely the hamsters are dancing in the streets charged up by a jolt of electricity. The second-generation Kia Soul was introduced for the 2014 model year loaded with style and character and it’s now the company’s second-best seller. So it seems a no-brainer to turn the hip urban crossover into the company’s first all-electric zero-emissions vehicle. It’s very fetching. The Soul EV promises a 93-mile range, bested only by the considerably more expensive luxury Tesla Model S. And the Soul’s 360-volt lithium-ion polymer battery pack charges relatively quickly, about five hours when plugged to a 220-volt outlet. We were saddled with just a standard 120-volt charger, which according to Kia will pump up a depleted battery in 24 hours. Two charging sessions took only about 15 hours on both occasions. We charged a second EV with the 120 for about 20 hours to max the battery. If in a rush the Kia can gain an 80 percent charge in about 30 minutes using a fast charging port. What didn’t impress us was the range that fell far short of the advertised 93 miles. We were left with a 79-mile range after the first charge and a 77-mile range after the second. The second EV proved better, giving us a 91-mile range. But that was basically our only gripe and something that could probably be mitigated with the proper at-home charging station. We were pleased with the performance of the car from its 109-horsepower electric motor, which produces 210 lb-ft of instantaneous torque. We soundlessly moved through city traffic getting up to stoplight-to-stoplight speed in a brisk fashion. We were astounded at how quiet the Soul EV performed under acceleration with virtually no motor whirring, just the low-level noise of low-resistance tires on pavement. For the benefit of pedestrian safety, the Soul EV is equipped with a Pedestrian Warning System that emits an auditory alert at speeds below 12 mph and whenever the car is in reverse. We anticipated trouble gaining highway speed from the on-ramp and we worried about difficulty merging into 65 mph traffic. Our fears proved unfounded as we pushed the pedal to the medal and the Soul responded with pleasing performance. We found that the car handled extremely well. It was well balanced and Kia engineers did a nice job in retuning the suspension to handle the 400 lb. of extra weight it gained with its sizable battery, regenerative brakes, and stiffer (heavier) low-resistance tires. What’s more, because of the retuning, the Soul EV’s center of gravity is lower making it hug the pavement even more. On the outside the Soul EV sports a more aerodynamically clean exterior design with its grille replaced by a charging port, new headlights and bumpers, and flat-faced wheels. And the Soul EV offers three distinctive dual-color schemes. Inside, the Soul EV features a unique instrument cluster with white interior trim, using a custom version of Kia’s UVO infotainment system. This revised version of UVO does everything from show the electric car’s maximum range on top of a digital map to displaying exactly how much electricity things such as the headlights, windshield wipers, and turn signals are using. The Soul’s boxy design results in excellent head room for both rows of passengers while providing a good field of vision in all directions. Cargo space has been reduced from 24.2 cu. ft. without the under tray in the standard Soul to 18.8 cu. ft. in the EV to allow for battery storage. Likewise, with the seats folded the standard Soul has a useable 61.3 cu. ft., the EV just 49.5 cu. ft. The enlarged tailgate is defined by black glass that morphs into a gloss black trim that runs around the back and surrounds the large vertical taillights. It’s very fetching. The Soul EV comes in two trim configurations: base and Soul+, starting at $34,500 including destination charge. Standard Soul EV amenities include navigation with 8-inch screen, a 6.6 kw on-board charger, a DC fast charge port, rear camera display, Bluetooth hands-free operation, power windows, power driver’s seat, cruise control, and an exclusive HVAC system designed to extend driving range by minimizing energy draw. The Soul EV is currently available in selected markets with limited availability. [© theepochtimes.com] http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1495477/kia-soul-ev-wins-motoring-tv-2015-best-electric-car Kia Soul EV wins Motoring TV 2015 'Best Electric Car' March 2, 2015 KIA Canada Kia Soul EV claims Motoring TV 2013 'Best Electric Car' Soul EV wins second Canadian award to date MISSISSAUGA, ON, March 2, 2015
[EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-SX Owners HacksMods Could Cause Injury, Hurt Brand
http://www.latinpost.com/articles/40998/20150304/tesla-motors-warns-model-s-and-model-x-owners-hacks-and-modifications-could-cause-injury-hurt-brand.htm Tesla Motors Warns Model S and Model X Owners Hacks and Modifications Could Cause Injury, Hurt Brand By Julia Harris Mar 04, 2015 [image http://images.latinpost.com/data/images/full/39336/tesla-model-s.jpg Tesla Model S Tesla Motors wants Model S and Model X owners to refrain from hacks and modifications. (Photo : Elonolizer/Twitter) ] Tesla Motors filed its 2014 annual report with the SEC last week, which lists a variety of risks facing the company. One significant risk: automobile owners may hack Tesla vehicles to modify performance, which could compromise vehicle safety systems, reports Business Insider. If our vehicle owners customize our vehicles or change the charging infrastructure with aftermarket products, the vehicle may not operate properly, which could harm our business, the annual report reads. The company goes on to say that it is aware of customers who have customized their vehicles with after-market parts. It cites customers who have installed seats that elevate the driver so that airbag and other safety systems may not work properly. Wheel and tire changes, along with large speaker systems that could impact the vehicle's electrical systems, are listed as modifications that compromise driver safety. Tesla Motors says it has not tested, nor does it endorse, such changes or products. Worse yet, some hacks could cause electrocution. In addition, customer use of improper external cabling or unsafe charging outlets can expose our customers to injury from high voltage electricity. Such unauthorized modifications could reduce the safety of our vehicles and any injuries resulting from such modifications could result in adverse publicity which would negatively affect our brand and harm our business, prospects, financial condition and operating results, the company says in the report. The company suffered some bad press in November 2013 when three Model S sedans caught fire within a five week period, adding credence to its concern that if a Model S owner rewired the stereo system it could result in a Tesla disaster headline. There is little any automobile manufacturer can do about customers customizing with their rides, which Tesla Motors alludes to in its report. The luxury electric automaker plans to deliver about 55,000 Model S and the anticipated Model X SUV vehicles in 2015, and if it succeeds, it would represent a 70 percent increase over 2014, reports Fortune. [© latinpost.com] http://techaeris.com/2015/03/06/want-trick-new-tesla-tesla-prefer-didnt/ Want To Trick Out Your New Tesla? Tesla Would Prefer If You Didn’t by Justin Jelinek March 6, 2015 [images http://techaeris.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Pimp-My-Tesla.jpg Keep this man away from your new Tesla (Yo daug I hear your Tesla would look great with some fat new rims but Elon Musk is my hero so I am not going to do that) http://techaeris.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Tesla-Customization.jpg No (Tesla-S with Peguin's Batmobile sidewings) ] Say you just dropped your hard-earned money on a brand new Tesla Model S, and you wanted to add a giant Carbon-Fiber spoiler, or LED lighting throughout the interior. First off, either of those things would be ridiculous, the Model S is an amazing looking car as it is (hey Tesla, I’d still be happy to review one, just let me know, ok?), but furthermore, Tesla really doesn’t want you tinkering with their your Model S. In their 2014 Annual Report to the SEC, Tesla specifically mentioned after-market modifications as a potential risk to their company: If our vehicle owners customize our vehicles or change the charging infrastructure with aftermarket products, the vehicle may not operate properly, which could harm our business. Oh really? How so? Automobile enthusiasts may seek to “hack” our vehicles to modify its performance which could compromise vehicle safety systems. Also, we are aware of customers who have customized their vehicles with after-market parts that may compromise driver safety. For example, some customers have installed seats that elevate the driver such that airbag and other safety systems could be compromised. Other customers have changed wheels and tires, while others have installed large speaker systems that may impact the electrical systems of the vehicle. We have not tested, nor do we endorse, such changes or products. In addition, customer use of improper external cabling or unsafe charging outlets can expose our customers to injury from high voltage electricity. Such unauthorized modifications could reduce the safety of our vehicles and any injuries resulting from such modifications could result in adverse publicity which would negatively affect our brand and harm our business, prospects, financial condition and operating results. Fair enough. I can certainly understand that tinkering with
Re: [EVDL] EV range needs, future best options
some Florida seniors routinely make 1,100 miles trips up and down the east coast, and elsewhere On Sun, 3/8/15, jerry freedomev via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Subject: [EVDL] EV range needs, future best options To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Date: Sunday, March 8, 2015, 11:45 AM EV range is interesting as so many new factors. While long range is nice for those that actually need 100+ miles/day, most just don't need over 120 miles I see as a sweet spot for most. For many just a 60 mile range EV can work as many in Fla seniors only use Golfcarts and NEV's now as their only transport. And for the few times more is needed a RE using cleaner fuels or Alum/Zinc-air primary batteries are already proven to give 1,000 mile range just EV builders refuse to put in the brackets, plug or space for them like a trailer hitch mount. We really need to get these alum/Zinc air RE available as already proven, just need a market to sell them. Between EV's and home, building markets if available would be a killer app. As fairly light 50lb modules could be sold near anywhere including gas stations just exchanging the spent one with a reformed one. This is complicated as EV batteries shrink in weight, space both which have been improved 30% in the last few yrs and likely to double range/lb of battery in 3-5 yrs.Next building eff EV's gliders by cutting weight by 50% with better aero can cut battery weight, cost/100 miles by 50% even with present EV lithium batteries. The GM Ultralite, Toyota 1/x, Solectria Sunrise, Visio.M, and other composite body/chassis show the way. Sadly the i3 weighs more than a same size steel car from really bad design using an alum frame instead of just bolting everything to the CF body. Since it has to pass crash tests the body has to be strong enough to carry the other loads anyway. So half the weight, drag EV's using half the weight EV batteries with 2x's the capacity even 200 mile range would be low cost, practical. And in 5 yrs likely to be in production as by then oil will likely be $5/gal but EV's need cost no more than a gas car because of these but only 20% to run. Jerry Dycus -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150308/2007d895/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BASF sez 1k+mi NiMH EV Pack 700Wh/kg, lighter-weight
One solution is to build EVs with quick-change battery packs. That's what we're trying on the Sunrise EV2. The batteries are in a drawer that slides out the front. With quick-change packs, you can use a cheap short-range pack for normal around-town driving. Or swap it for a light high-power pack if you want to go drag racing. Or a big long-range pack for extended trips. You could even have a hybrid pack, which includes an ICE generator. This also means you can change your mind later. If you bought the car with with a short-range pack, but found that you needed more, you could buy/borrow/swap your pack for a longer range one later on. It's also a big advantage when it comes time to replace the batteries. Replacing the pack in most EVs is a major undertaking! -- Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple. -- Charles Mingus -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeah...@earthlink.net ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV range needs, future best options
Ok, we've seen both sides of the wasteful range question. Let me pose this: how close to saturation are we for the market of people who can afford and are willing to have an additional car just so they can buy a short range (50+ miles) for local driving. That is, how many people are left who will buy a short range EV with the justification they also have an ICE car for longer distances? Let me be sarcastic: under the ideal world I'd have about 10 vehicles: my bicycle, maybe an e-bike, a small 1 person EV, a small 2 person EV, a 4 door sedan EV, a 4 door sedan ICE, a pickup truck, a van. Lost count, is that 10? Then, I'd use each vehicle most efficiently. Peri -- Original Message -- From: robert winfield via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: jerry freedomev freedo...@yahoo.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 09-Mar-15 2:31:41 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV range needs, future best options some Florida seniors routinely make 1,100 miles trips up and down the east coast, and elsewhere On Sun, 3/8/15, jerry freedomev via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Subject: [EVDL] EV range needs, future best options To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Date: Sunday, March 8, 2015, 11:45 AM EV range is interesting as so many new factors. While long range is nice for those that actually need 100+ miles/day, most just don't need over 120 miles I see as a sweet spot for most.For many just a 60 mile range EV can work as many in Fla seniors only use Golfcarts and NEV's now as their only transport.And for the few times more is needed a RE using cleaner fuels or Alum/Zinc-air primary batteries are already proven to give 1,000 mile range just EV builders refuse to put in the brackets, plug or space for them like a trailer hitch mount. We really need to get these alum/Zinc air RE available as already proven, just need a market to sell them. Between EV's and home, building markets if available would be a killer app.As fairly light 50lb modules could be sold near anywhere including gas stations just exchanging the spent one with a reformed one.This is complicated as EV batteries shrink in weight, space both which have been improved 30% in the last few yrs and likely to double range/lb of battery in 3-5 yrs.Next building eff EV's gliders by cutting weight by 50% with better aero can cut battery weight, cost/100 miles by 50% even with present EV lithium batteries.The GM Ultralite, Toyota 1/x, Solectria Sunrise, Visio.M, and other composite body/chassis show the way. Sadly the i3 weighs more than a same size steel car from really bad design using an alum frame instead of just bolting everything to the CF body. Since it has to pass crash tests the body has to be strong enough to carry the other loads anyway. So half the weight, drag EV's using half the weight EV batteries with 2x's the capacity even 200 mile range would be low cost, practical. And in 5 yrs likely to be in production as by then oil will likely be $5/gal but EV's need cost no more than a gas car because of these but only 20% to run. Jerry Dycus -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150308/2007d895/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV range needs, future best options (40 for me)
My answer: I'm waiting for a 40 mile BEV. The Prius 12mi is too short and both it and the VOLT haul along an entirely not needed ICE (adding $10k to the price) (I have 2 other salvage Prius for all the distance I need). And my daily commute is 30 mi total. 40 miles for me. Unwilling to pay the extra $6k for the final 40 miles of the current crop of 80 mile BEV's that I'd never use. Bob -Original Message- Ok, we've seen both sides of the wasteful range question. Let me pose this: how close to saturation are we for the market of people who can afford and are willing to have an additional car just so they can buy a short range (50+ miles) for local driving. That is, how many people are left who will buy a short range EV with the justification they also have an ICE car for longer distances? ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV range needs, future best options (40 for me)
On Mar 9, 2015, at 3:53 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: My answer: I'm waiting for a 40 mile BEV. The Prius 12mi is too short and both it and the VOLT haul along an entirely not needed ICE (adding $10k to the price) (I have 2 other salvage Prius for all the distance I need). And my daily commute is 30 mi total. 40 miles for me. Unwilling to pay the extra $6k for the final 40 miles of the current crop of 80 mile BEV's that I'd never use. I think two points are worth raising. First, there are many people who are in your situation, including a great many who are but don't think they are. Second, there are also many people who would find your situation incomprehensible, and can't possibly imagine of what use a vehicle with only 40 miles of range could even hypothetically be. There is no one-size-fits-all answer. For those for whom your size fits, we should make sure that they know just how good a fit it is. But we'd be crazy to tell everybody else that your size fits them when it's not even remotely applicable. Any color you like, so long as it's black is not a way to gain market share. Also, as a side note, for basically all Tesla owners, $6k isn't really a noticeable fraction of a new vehicle purchase price; you can change the price of the car by that much either direction and it's only marginally going to impact sales. For people at the other end of the income scale, $6k might be their total purchase price of an used vehicle, so it doesn't get any more significant for that for them...but it's not even on the radar of somebody buying a maxed-out P85D. b ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV range needs, future best options (40 for me)
You will need the few miles of extra range when: 1) The car gets a number of years old, and the pack ages a bit. 2) Winter, bad weather, etc. 3) Construction/accident detour. 4) Unnoticed low pressure in tire. etc, etc, etc It is nice to have a little extra cushion in the total range. At 04:53 PM 3/9/2015, you wrote: My answer: I'm waiting for a 40 mile BEV. The Prius 12mi is too short and both it and the VOLT haul along an entirely not needed ICE (adding $10k to the price) (I have 2 other salvage Prius for all the distance I need). And my daily commute is 30 mi total. 40 miles for me. Unwilling to pay the extra $6k for the final 40 miles of the current crop of 80 mile BEV's that I'd never use. Bob -Original Message- Ok, we've seen both sides of the wasteful range question. Let me pose this: how close to saturation are we for the market of people who can afford and are willing to have an additional car just so they can buy a short range (50+ miles) for local driving. That is, how many people are left who will buy a short range EV with the justification they also have an ICE car for longer distances? ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV range needs, future best options (40 for me)
On Mar 9, 2015, at 3:53 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I'm waiting for a 40 mile BEV. The Prius 12mi is too short and both it and the VOLT haul along an entirely not needed ICE (adding $10k to the price) (I have 2 other salvage Prius for all the distance I need). And my daily commute is 30 mi total. 40 miles for me. Unwilling to pay the extra $6k for the final 40 miles of the current crop of 80 mile BEV's that I'd never use. What about a used Smart ED or Fiat 500e? That should take care of the $6k price difference. Or, if you want a full-sized car, a used Ford Focus EV? I’ve got the Focus, and love it, and I also really like the Smart ED a lot. -Bill -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 841 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150309/927fe49c/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-SX Owners HacksMods Could Cause Injury, Hurt Brand
On Mar 9, 2015, at 8:09 PM, David Nelson via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: If our vehicle owners customize our vehicles... I thought when a vehicle was purchased and the owner held the title that the vehicle was no longer the manufacturers. For ages, you haven't been able to buy software; you only buy a license to be able to use the software in ways that the company selling it to you approves of. Similar end user license agreements have been making their way into basically any physical device that runs software. You may think you own your TV, but you really only own a license to press buttons on the remote control. Teslas are frequently described as more computer than car. I wouldn't at all be surprised if nobody actually owns any Teslas but Musk, who effectively owns them all. He just sells you a license that permits you to drive it in approved manners. To be fair, such is the case with basically _all_ modern vehicles, regardless of the source of motive power. It's just that much more in your face with Teslas, given their automatic over-the-air updates and the amount of control they visibly assert and how hard they push back against owners. There're reasons I drive cars older than I am, and a very important one is that I actually own the things. Cheers, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150309/c2f6bbf5/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Open Circuit Voltage Across Contactors
I've got two Anderson contacts on my pack, one on the negative side and one on the positive side. So when the key is out of the ignition, the controller and all other components are separated from the traction pack. I currently have a 120V system, with two strings in parallel, because I have a Curtis controller, which has a 144V max. I would, however, like to be able to charge faster with my PFC-30. So my question is, if I reconfigure the packs to be in series for charging, is there any problem, since both contactors will be open? Thanks, Bill ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: BASF sez 1k+mi NiMH EV Pack 700Wh/kg, lighter-weight
I noticed on the Tesla website under Model S charging they have a charge time and cost calculator near the bottom of the page: http://www.teslamotors.com/charging#/calculator If you click up on the kind of outlet you use, you notice that 110 V 12A standard outlet is more costly and uses more energy to charge than using 240 volt would. I'm wondering if this is common to the charging setups for other vehicles? I can understand 110 charging is slow process, and good for balancing energy company loads over a longer time, but for the end user, the indication here is a loss of efficiency and higher cost. One thing I realized on the cost differential of the Tesla Model S base 60kw and 85kw models is that though it is shown as $10K, for the 25Kw battery difference it is $8k. The other $2k is for supercharger enabling for the 60Kw model, which is free on the 85Kw model. In thinking about the range situation maybe a look back at gasoline cars is in order. When we look back in time at gasoline cars, initially people went to the general store to buy a can or bottle of gas. Then the development of the gas pump out front using gravity feed made it easier to fill the tank. Later gas/service stations with pumps were developed, and then we come to the primarily gas or gas only stations we have now. During this transition automobiles went from small tanks of say 10 gallons or less and range of 100 miles as speeds were low and if they were lucky in the 1920's, to more modern tanks of 18-20 gallons or more on SUV's and higher speed with ranges in the 3-4 miles or more. 1950's cars were getting probably 250 miles on a tank of gas. More efficient vehicles like the hybrids can go 500 miles on say 10 gallons of gas now. So the expectation of the modern driver has changed with developments over the years. If we liken that to current EV driving, seems like we are coming into the 1950's with 200 mile range and more developments and longer range on the horizon. Don On 3/8/2015 8:21 AM, tomw via EV wrote: /...But what's not irrelevant is our charging infrastructure. We're building out L3 charging which, I believe, will be too slow once 200+ mile range cars are out.../ I agree Peri. I think we failed to move from the lead-acid range mentality to anticipate longer range vehicles. Less than a decade ago people who drove evs were always looking for places to opportunity charge from 120VAC because they only had about 15-25 mile range, and 120VAC was what was more available. One of the main topics of conversation at ev club meetings was the location of various opportunity charging points. Addition of 5 miles range was significant then, 20% to 33% extension, and could make the difference for getting back home from across town. Compared to charging from a 120VAC outlet L2 EVSEs seemed really fast, so more than adequate. The L2 network was put in place to give people peace of mind that they wouldn't run out of charge driving around town, but they weren't going to anyway. I pointed that out after I converted my car in 2009 but the people in the local ev club who had driven lead acid evs for years were still understandably focused on opportunity charging. The main purpose of L2 EVSEs now is for people from out of town to charge, since vehicles with greater than around 50 mile range rarely charge anywhere but at home for around town trips. But L2 EVSEs are too slow for adding 50 more miles or so. It only works well if you leave your car charging while you do something else such as go for a hike, bike ride, eat a meal, or do some work on your computer at a coffee shop (with a note on the windshield stating time it is ok to unplug). It also is fine for charging at work, but then 120VAC would do the job there for most people. I think it likely we are now repeating the same mistake we made going from 20 mile evs to 80 mile evs. In several years people will likely be driving 140 - 200 mile range evs, wanting to add much more range per charging session, and wondering why we installed all these unbelievably slow L2 EVSEs. It is a situation common to quickly moving technologies. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-EVLN-BASF-sez-1k-mi-NiMH-EV-Pack-700Wh-kg-lighter-weight-tp4674091p4674131.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- Don Bradley PO Box 141 Forestville, Ca. 95436 Maker of Signal Generators for Chladni Plate Tuning ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA
Re: [EVDL] Open Circuit Voltage Across Contactors
No problem, until the day that you forget that you charged in series and turn the key on to feed 270VDC to your Cursit... Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Dennis via EV Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 9:06 PM To: 'Lee Hart'; 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' Subject: [EVDL] Open Circuit Voltage Across Contactors I've got two Anderson contacts on my pack, one on the negative side and one on the positive side. So when the key is out of the ignition, the controller and all other components are separated from the traction pack. I currently have a 120V system, with two strings in parallel, because I have a Curtis controller, which has a 144V max. I would, however, like to be able to charge faster with my PFC-30. So my question is, if I reconfigure the packs to be in series for charging, is there any problem, since both contactors will be open? Thanks, Bill ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-SX Owners HacksMods Could Cause Injury, Hurt Brand
Elon Musk is sounding more and more like a control freak. I can understand discouraging modifications that create a public hazard. You might include ICEV chipping there, if it increases emissions (I'd expect it to, but I don't know). I also think that bull bars on 4 wheel drive vehicles are a potential hazard to other vehicles when used on the road (I think they were originally called bush bars and were meant for off road use). And of course any EV mod that created a shock hazard would be a really bad idea. But discouraging mods that might harm, if anyone, only me? That's a different matter. Sure, warn me, but in the end, it's my choice. Elon wants to retain control of Teslas? Fine, let him keep them. He can get off my lawn, too. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV range needs, future best options (40 for me)
That's when I might plug in to a 120v outlet at work and double my range. bob -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Bill Dube via EV Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 7:02 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV range needs, future best options (40 for me) You will need the few miles of extra range when: 1) The car gets a number of years old, and the pack ages a bit. 2) Winter, bad weather, etc. 3) Construction/accident detour. 4) Unnoticed low pressure in tire. etc, etc, etc It is nice to have a little extra cushion in the total range. At 04:53 PM 3/9/2015, you wrote: My answer: I'm waiting for a 40 mile BEV. The Prius 12mi is too short and both it and the VOLT haul along an entirely not needed ICE (adding $10k to the price) (I have 2 other salvage Prius for all the distance I need). And my daily commute is 30 mi total. 40 miles for me. Unwilling to pay the extra $6k for the final 40 miles of the current crop of 80 mile BEV's that I'd never use. Bob -Original Message- Ok, we've seen both sides of the wasteful range question. Let me pose this: how close to saturation are we for the market of people who can afford and are willing to have an additional car just so they can buy a short range (50+ miles) for local driving. That is, how many people are left who will buy a short range EV with the justification they also have an ICE car for longer distances? ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV range needs, future best options
Peri, You might have been sarcastic, but you almost described my vehicles. I have the following: Bicycle - recreation only. My commute is 25 miles each way on highways. Not for me on a bike. 2 person EV - Honda del Sol conversion with 50 mile range for commuting. 4 person EV - Just bought. Around town and some trips. 4 person ICE - 2001 Volvo station wagon. Long trips with no cargo and less than 6 people. Pickup/Van - 3/4 ton Suburban. Used for cargo, people up to 8, towing trailers. I have a pickup bed trailer to work as a pickup. In general, the cars leave the garage in the order above. Those are listed cheapest to most expensive to operate. With the new EV, we will have to see if it replaces the old EV. Keeping both means my wife and I can both drive electric on days that she drives also. Now, I am an unusual case. I live in a rural area, with horses and a horse trailer, so towing is a must. All vehicles were bought used and are kept well maintained. If my daughter calls with an emergency 500 miles away, I have two vehicles I am confident I could get in and drive tonight. I would choose the vehicle based on the needs of the trip. Some might consider this extravagant, but this combination meets my needs. Mike On March 9, 2015 4:41:42 PM MDT, Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Ok, we've seen both sides of the wasteful range question. Let me pose this: how close to saturation are we for the market of people who can afford and are willing to have an additional car just so they can buy a short range (50+ miles) for local driving. That is, how many people are left who will buy a short range EV with the justification they also have an ICE car for longer distances? Let me be sarcastic: under the ideal world I'd have about 10 vehicles: my bicycle, maybe an e-bike, a small 1 person EV, a small 2 person EV, a 4 door sedan EV, a 4 door sedan ICE, a pickup truck, a van. Lost count, is that 10? Then, I'd use each vehicle most efficiently. Peri -- Original Message -- From: robert winfield via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: jerry freedomev freedo...@yahoo.com; Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 09-Mar-15 2:31:41 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV range needs, future best options some Florida seniors routinely make 1,100 miles trips up and down the east coast, and elsewhere On Sun, 3/8/15, jerry freedomev via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Subject: [EVDL] EV range needs, future best options To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Date: Sunday, March 8, 2015, 11:45 AM EV range is interesting as so many new factors. While long range is nice for those that actually need 100+ miles/day, most just don't need over 120 miles I see as a sweet spot for most.For many just a 60 mile range EV can work as many in Fla seniors only use Golfcarts and NEV's now as their only transport.And for the few times more is needed a RE using cleaner fuels or Alum/Zinc-air primary batteries are already proven to give 1,000 mile range just EV builders refuse to put in the brackets, plug or space for them like a trailer hitch mount. We really need to get these alum/Zinc air RE available as already proven, just need a market to sell them. Between EV's and home, building markets if available would be a killer app.As fairly light 50lb modules could be sold near anywhere including gas stations just exchanging the spent one with a reformed one.This is complicated as EV batteries shrink in weight, space both which have been improved 30% in the last few yrs and likely to double range/lb of battery in 3-5 yrs.Next building eff EV's gliders by cutting weight by 50% with better aero can cut battery weight, cost/100 miles by 50% even with present EV lithium batteries.The GM Ultralite, Toyota 1/x, Solectria Sunrise, Visio.M, and other composite body/chassis show the way. Sadly the i3 weighs more than a same size steel car from really bad design using an alum frame instead of just bolting everything to the CF body. Since it has to pass crash tests the body has to be strong enough to carry the other loads anyway. So half the weight, drag EV's using half the weight EV batteries with 2x's the capacity even 200 mile range would be low cost, practical. And in 5 yrs likely to be in production as by then oil will likely be $5/gal but EV's need cost no more than a gas car because of these but only 20% to run. Jerry Dycus -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150308/2007d895/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV
Re: [EVDL] EV range needs, future best options
Hi Peri and All, With some accessories you can cut that way down by a transport system approach. I need most of what you say my solution is a 2-4 seat EV with 60-120 mile range that tows a convertible lightweight aero trailer making it into a van, camper, flatbed, pickup. Just add a clean fuel RE rounds it out for those times EV range, fast charging won't do. A vehicle is only wasteful if one doesn't use it's capacity. By doing things that make it more flexible saves much. All my very lightweight EV's have trailer hitches and my EV trike pickup does much what I need with only 40 mile range. It's trailer, a wood/epoxy flat bed has been used from it to a pickup, camper, etc by putting on various shells, sides, etc. Jerry Dycus From: Peri Hartman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: Monday, March 9, 2015 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV range needs, future best options Ok, we've seen both sides of the wasteful range question. Let me pose this: how close to saturation are we for the market of people who can afford and are willing to have an additional car just so they can buy a short range (50+ miles) for local driving. That is, how many people are left who will buy a short range EV with the justification they also have an ICE car for longer distances? Let me be sarcastic: under the ideal world I'd have about 10 vehicles: my bicycle, maybe an e-bike, a small 1 person EV, a small 2 person EV, a 4 door sedan EV, a 4 door sedan ICE, a pickup truck, a van. Lost count, is that 10? Then, I'd use each vehicle most efficiently. Peri -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150310/d1e9459b/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV range needs, future best options (40 for me)
Could any of the current shorter range BEV options work for you, Bob? The Mitsubishi iMiev or Smart ED are shorter range, lower priced BEV options (no superfluous ICE). Either may be worth considering for more affordable 30 mile commuter use, if available in your area. Or perhaps a used iMiev or Smart for even less. Both are below 80 miles range EPA, but still with a bit extra over 40 to handle the considerations Bill brought up. Or a used LEAF with less than the current model 84 miles EPA range but still sufficiently over 40, they are widely available and getting more affordable every day. Or a used Chevy Spark, if available in your area. Cheers, -Jamie On 3/9/15 5:02 PM, Bill Dube via EV wrote: You will need the few miles of extra range when: 1) The car gets a number of years old, and the pack ages a bit. 2) Winter, bad weather, etc. 3) Construction/accident detour. 4) Unnoticed low pressure in tire. etc, etc, etc It is nice to have a little extra cushion in the total range. At 04:53 PM 3/9/2015, you wrote: My answer: I'm waiting for a 40 mile BEV. The Prius 12mi is too short and both it and the VOLT haul along an entirely not needed ICE (adding $10k to the price) (I have 2 other salvage Prius for all the distance I need). And my daily commute is 30 mi total. 40 miles for me. Unwilling to pay the extra $6k for the final 40 miles of the current crop of 80 mile BEV's that I'd never use. Bob -Original Message- Ok, we've seen both sides of the wasteful range question. Let me pose this: how close to saturation are we for the market of people who can afford and are willing to have an additional car just so they can buy a short range (50+ miles) for local driving. That is, how many people are left who will buy a short range EV with the justification they also have an ICE car for longer distances? ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla-SX Owners HacksMods Could Cause Injury, Hurt Brand
If our vehicle owners customize our vehicles... I thought when a vehicle was purchased and the owner held the title that the vehicle was no longer the manufacturers. -- David D. Nelson http://evalbum.com/1328 http://www.levforum.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
