Re: [EVDL] Two EV's to Donate

[ROBERT via EV]

"I beg to differ. Most of the early battery chargers and controllers were built 
with generic parts that are still widely available. There was little or no 
software in the way, as they didn't *have* microcomputers running them. 
Schematics can usually be found quite easily on the web, either in the old 
service manuals or ones that someone has reverse-engineered and posted."


Lee, you are correct; however, the early BC and controllers were inefficient 
and would not be acceptable for a present day EV conversion.  Same applies to 
the GE EV1 controller.  My comment concerned the low value of a 10 year old DC 
EV conversion and the difficulty in maintaining the system.  As to easy of 
troubleshooting an older EV just read the on going discussion "Slow due to 96V 
pack".  This system was used on a lot of early EV conversions and the knowledge 
base is still limited and conflicted.


It has been and still is my opinion that someone needs to design an open source 
PFC battery charger and 200KW motor controller with direct torque control.  I 
have always felt the EAA should have sponsored and supported a technical group 
for this purpose.  I started working with the EV group about 15 years ago.  No 
production EV was available.  The only choose was a conversion.  EV equipment 
was limited and many people like you developed some equipment; however, 
national support was limited and no central repository for documentation was 
available.  In my opinion, this has hurt/killed the EV conversion market.  As a 
compliment to you and others who developed early EV equipment, we all thank 
you.  However, the big boys (car companies) have won.



From: EV  on behalf of Lee Hart via EV 

Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 4:34 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Lee Hart
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Two EV's to Donate

From: ROBERT via EV 
>"You can actually work on them yourself, without having to fight some 
>automaker's proprietary security stuff."  That said; however, on older 
>conversions and on most conversions the conversion documentation is very weak 
>and documentation on the individual components is limited or non-exist.  Many 
>companies that made battery chargers, motor controllers, meter, and other 
>electronic devices had limited documentation or proprietary documentation and 
>never a schematic or software source code.  I would rather hack a production 
>EV product than reverse engineer or troubleshoot a product from a company that 
>was out of business.  A good example is the original EV1 hardware.  Try to 
>work on that stuff.  Its value is nil.

I beg to differ. Most of the early battery chargers and controllers were built 
with generic parts that are still widely available. There was little or no 
software in the way, as they didn't *have* microcomputers running them. 
Schematics can usually be found quite easily on the web, either in the old 
service manuals or ones that someone has reverse-engineered and posted.

If by "EV1" you mean the GM EV1 electric car, then you're right; its 
controller, charger, and associated systems are essentially undocumented and 
unfixable -- just the way GM wanted it.

But if you mean the GE EV1 EV controllers, they are eminently repairable and 
hackable. Full service manuals with schematics are available. Virtually every 
part can be easily replaced with basic tools. There is *no* software to get in 
the way.

I would much rather fix a Curtis 1231 EV controller than a GM Dolphin 
controller.

--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com


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[EVDL] Cheapest car for 2017.

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

I've known this for months.  
https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/cheapest-car-daily-commute.html/?ref=YF=yahoo
 Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Slow due to 96V pack?

[Lee Hart via EV]

From: paul dove 
> Current out of a battery is not calculated based on internal resistance.

Actually, it is. The Equivalent Series Resistance (ESR) of a battery is not a 
theoretical number. It is found empirically by measuring the voltage drop 
caused by a high-current load. The voltage of a 6v golf cart battery really 
does drop by about 2.5 volts with a 500 amp load. In other words, it acts like 
an ideal 6v battery with a 0.005 ohm resistor in series. Thus, it's a 
reasonable way to estimate what you are likely to get.

> you won't get 100% efficiency out a controller.

No, of course not. But the efficiency is pretty high, and can usually be 
ignored for back-of-the-envelope estimates. That's all I was trying to do with 
my estimate.

>The battery industry uses a 100-hour rate as an index to compare batteries of 
>different types and sizes.

They do when they are trying to exaggerate the capacity of their battery. For 
EV use, the 100-hour rate is useless. Even the more common 20-hour rate is 
nowhere near the rate at which the battery will be used. What you want to look 
at is the 1-hour or Reserve Capacity rates, which are what you will get when 
discharged at high currents. For a golf cart battery, the reserve capacity is 
measured at 75 amps, and the 1-hour rate at about 100 amps.

But, I don't think these capacity numbers are what is limiting the maximum 
current in this case. My guess is that these golf cart batteries can only 
deliver 200a before their voltage sags to 72v and the controller starts 
limiting current.


--
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--
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Re: [EVDL] Two EV's to Donate

[Lee Hart via EV]

From: ROBERT via EV 
>"You can actually work on them yourself, without having to fight some 
>automaker's proprietary security stuff."  That said; however, on older 
>conversions and on most conversions the conversion documentation is very weak 
>and documentation on the individual components is limited or non-exist.  Many 
>companies that made battery chargers, motor controllers, meter, and other 
>electronic devices had limited documentation or proprietary documentation and 
>never a schematic or software source code.  I would rather hack a production 
>EV product than reverse engineer or troubleshoot a product from a company that 
>was out of business.  A good example is the original EV1 hardware.  Try to 
>work on that stuff.  Its value is nil.

I beg to differ. Most of the early battery chargers and controllers were built 
with generic parts that are still widely available. There was little or no 
software in the way, as they didn't *have* microcomputers running them. 
Schematics can usually be found quite easily on the web, either in the old 
service manuals or ones that someone has reverse-engineered and posted.

If by "EV1" you mean the GM EV1 electric car, then you're right; its 
controller, charger, and associated systems are essentially undocumented and 
unfixable -- just the way GM wanted it.

But if you mean the GE EV1 EV controllers, they are eminently repairable and 
hackable. Full service manuals with schematics are available. Virtually every 
part can be easily replaced with basic tools. There is *no* software to get in 
the way.

I would much rather fix a Curtis 1231 EV controller than a GM Dolphin 
controller.

--
Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James
--
Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Slow due to 96V pack?

[paul dove via EV]

I don't think that math is right but you won't get 100% efficiency out a 
controller.
I think Curtis advertises 88%.
Current out of a battery is not calculated based on internal resistance. 
Internal resistance or Impedance of a battery can be modeled and measured but 
it doesn't act like a normal load. It's a chemical reaction and different 
chemistries will give you different currents.
If it is not due to limits on the controller and the efficiency drop then I 
would say the batteries aren't at full capacity any more.
The battery industry uses a 100-hour rate as an index to compare batteries of 
different types and sizes. The 100-hour rate is the amount of Ahs the battery 
will deliver during a 100-hour discharge. The capacity of a battery, in Ahs, is 
a dynamic number that is dependent on the discharge current. 

For example, a battery that is discharged at 10A will give you more capacity 
than a battery that is discharged at 100A. With the 100-hr rate, the battery is 
able to deliver more Ahs than with the 20-hr rate because the 100-hr rate uses 
a much lower discharge current than the 20-hr rate. Both rates are used as 
baselines. Either rate, however, will give you the same view of a battery. A 
higher capacity battery will have higher 5 and 20 hour rates than a battery 
with lower capacity.
They publish tables that you can look up to see these values.


  From: Lee Hart via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
Cc: Lee Hart <leeah...@earthlink.net>
 Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 11:40 PM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Slow due to 96V pack?
   
From: lektwik via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>96V  = Slug

Not necessarily; but in this case, probably correct.

Here's my guess: A 6v golf cart battery has an internal resistance of about 5 
milliohms (0.005 ohms). A 96v pack has 16 of them; so the resistance is 0.005 x 
16 = 0.08 ohms. Let's say the Zilla limits voltage to 72v (i.e. it won't pull 
the pack below 72v). Then the most current you can get is I = V/R = (96v-72v) / 
0.08 ohms) = 300 amps.

In practice, the resistance of the pack is a bit higher due to the wire and 
connectors. So a 200a max current is probably the most you can draw from the 
golf cart batteries before their voltage under load falls to 72v.

Now, if you had a different kind of batteries with less internal resistance, or 
a controller that would cheerfully pull the battery voltage even lower, you'd 
have a lot more current, and peppier performance.

For example, my old ComutaVan had a 72v pack of golf cart batteries, and a 
contactor controller. It would cheerfully pull 1000a from the batteries, and 
spin the tires if you "floored it" from a dead stop. I tried a Curtis 1221 400a 
controller; and it was *worse* than the contactor controller for accelleration, 
because it never came anywhere near 400a due to voltage sag.

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--
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Re: [EVDL] Two EV's to Donate

[ROBERT via EV]

"You can actually work on them yourself, without having to fight some 
automaker's proprietary security stuff."  That said; however, on older 
conversions and on most conversions the conversion documentation is very weak 
and documentation on the individual components is limited or non-exist.  Many 
companies that made battery chargers, motor controllers, meter, and other 
electronic devices had limited documentation or proprietary documentation and 
never a schematic or software source code.  I would rather hack a production EV 
product than reverse engineer or troubleshoot a product from a company that was 
out of business.  A good example is the original EV1 hardware.  Try to work on 
that stuff.  Its value is nil.



From: EV  on behalf of EVDL Administrator via EV 

Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2017 5:17 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: EVDL Administrator
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Two EV's to Donate

On 10 Sep 2017 at 22:16, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

> They are old technology which has no place in the brush less motor
> world of today.

Yes, but they have an upside:

You can actually work on them yourself, without having to fight some
automaker's proprietary security stuff.

If the motor or controller craps out, you can replace it (or them) with
whatever new unit(s) you want.  Same with the DC:DC, brake vacuum pump, and
so on.  Same with the battery. You can upgrade or downgrade any component at
will.  You can get parts from any source, not just the dealer.  You won't
have the car rejecting some junkyard or generic part you put in because it
isn't "registered" with the body computer, or whatever.

There seems to be a large and growing "hacking" (in a good way) community
devoted to some production EVs, but even those are still much more locked
down and opaque than any conversion.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] On the Road Again

[Pestka Dennis via EV]

Damon;


Glad to hear another old Datsun truck is on the road.

I'm having a ball driving mine since the Lithium conversion.

Dennis
1965 Datsun L320


From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of damon henry via EV 
<ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 11:32 AM
To: EV List
Cc: damon henry
Subject: [EVDL] On the Road Again

Yesterday was my birthday and for my birthday present this year I decided to 
complete my lithium conversion on my 1970 Datsun Truck http://evalbum.com/1524 
and start driving it again.  I finished up a couple of days ahead of schedule.  
The truck has been sitting waiting for new batteries for the last 3 or 4 years 
now.  I have not been EVless in the mean time as I have been riding my 
motorcycle about 1000 miles a year during the summer, but it is great to get my 
truck back to keep me dry during the rainy NW winters.  I picked up 4 Chevy 
Volt (48 volt) modules which are now my new traction pack and included a new 
DC/DC in the upgrade.  I also  took care of some brake and clutch issues that 
cropped up during the downtime.  For charging I special ordered some 6 amp 
Constant Current chargers set to cutoff at 49.8 volts from China, one for each 
module.  I still have my 50 amp Anderson connectors in place which I can use 
with any appropriate 96 volt charger as well.
[http://www.evalbum.com/imgm.php?n=1524a.jpg=250=140]<http://evalbum.com/1524>

Damon Henry's 1970 Datsun PU 520 - evalbum.com<http://evalbum.com/1524>
evalbum.com
Seating Capacity: 3: Curb Weight: 2,550 Pounds (1,159 Kilograms) Additional 
Features: I originally built this with an Alltrax 7245 72 volt 450 amp 
controller.




I was so happy when I plugged in the new pack for the first time and the Zilla 
woke up and spun the motor just fine.  Also, my cooling fan for the motor and 
water pump for the Zilla cooling both kicked in and ran as desired once the 
motor warmed up.  I was able to drive the truck to work and show it off for the 
first time Friday, which was fun.  I started a new job last November for a 
company that does control systems for paper mills, so I am surrounded by 
engineers who really enjoyed the show and tell.

I considered getting rid of the truck a couple of years ago and just buying a 
used Leaf, but in the end, I decided I will always like my truck more than I 
ever would a Leaf.  It took a couple of years of patience until I felt it was 
the right time to tackle this project again, but I am very happy with the 
results :)

I do not plan on ever doing another conversion project however.  My truck and 
motorcycle may get upgrades and continue to live on, but any future EVs will be 
factory made.  It's great to finally have that option.

Damon
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Re: [EVDL] On the Road Again

[Pestka Dennis via EV]

Damon;


Glad to hear another old Datsun truck is on the road.

I'm having a ball driving mine since the Lithium conversion.

Dennis
1965 Datsun L320


From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of damon henry via EV 
<ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 11:32 AM
To: EV List
Cc: damon henry
Subject: [EVDL] On the Road Again

Yesterday was my birthday and for my birthday present this year I decided to 
complete my lithium conversion on my 1970 Datsun Truck http://evalbum.com/1524 
and start driving it again.  I finished up a couple of days ahead of schedule.  
The truck has been sitting waiting for new batteries for the last 3 or 4 years 
now.  I have not been EVless in the mean time as I have been riding my 
motorcycle about 1000 miles a year during the summer, but it is great to get my 
truck back to keep me dry during the rainy NW winters.  I picked up 4 Chevy 
Volt (48 volt) modules which are now my new traction pack and included a new 
DC/DC in the upgrade.  I also  took care of some brake and clutch issues that 
cropped up during the downtime.  For charging I special ordered some 6 amp 
Constant Current chargers set to cutoff at 49.8 volts from China, one for each 
module.  I still have my 50 amp Anderson connectors in place which I can use 
with any appropriate 96 volt charger as well.
[http://www.evalbum.com/imgm.php?n=1524a.jpg=250=140]<http://evalbum.com/1524>

Damon Henry's 1970 Datsun PU 520 - evalbum.com<http://evalbum.com/1524>
evalbum.com
Seating Capacity: 3: Curb Weight: 2,550 Pounds (1,159 Kilograms) Additional 
Features: I originally built this with an Alltrax 7245 72 volt 450 amp 
controller.




I was so happy when I plugged in the new pack for the first time and the Zilla 
woke up and spun the motor just fine.  Also, my cooling fan for the motor and 
water pump for the Zilla cooling both kicked in and ran as desired once the 
motor warmed up.  I was able to drive the truck to work and show it off for the 
first time Friday, which was fun.  I started a new job last November for a 
company that does control systems for paper mills, so I am surrounded by 
engineers who really enjoyed the show and tell.

I considered getting rid of the truck a couple of years ago and just buying a 
used Leaf, but in the end, I decided I will always like my truck more than I 
ever would a Leaf.  It took a couple of years of patience until I felt it was 
the right time to tackle this project again, but I am very happy with the 
results :)

I do not plan on ever doing another conversion project however.  My truck and 
motorcycle may get upgrades and continue to live on, but any future EVs will be 
factory made.  It's great to finally have that option.

Damon
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[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170909

[brucedp5 via EV]

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Jaguar-restored-an-old-E-type-with-an-Electric-upgrade-v-tp4687914.html
EVLN: Jaguar restored an old E-type with an Electric upgrade (v)
Holy Sh*t Jaguar Is Actually Going to Electrify the E-Type
Ask any enthusiast and they'll tell you the same thing—if you want to build
a good electric vehicle, you have to start from the ground up. You sandwich
the battery ...

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Magna-installs-3-of-their-Electric-motors-in-a-Tesla-S-EV-tp4687913.html
EVLN: Magna installs 3 of their Electric motors in a Tesla-S EV
Automotive equipment supplier Magna demonstrates a three-motor electric ...
Magna shows Tesla that three motors work better than two   ... While the car
clearly started life as a Model S, its Magna and E1 badges hint at ...

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EVLN: williamsf1.com teases with a 480kW battery-powered superEV
Williams Advanced Engineering, the technology, testing and engineering
division of the F1 constructor, says its FW-EVX electric vehicle platform
that it claims ... an experimental battery-powered platform it thinks could
one day sit under a road car ...

+
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/National-Drive-Electric-Week-Combats-Koch-Funded-Lies-With-Real-World-Drivers-v-tp4687915.html
National Drive Electric Week Combats Koch-Funded Lies With Real World
Drivers (v)
Though many automotive experts—including some Big Oil majors—see the
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to keep the ...




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[EVDL] National Drive Electric Week Combats Koch-Funded Lies With Real World Drivers (v)

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.desmogblog.com/2017/09/11/national-drive-electric-week-combats-koch-funded-lies-real-life-drivers
National Drive Electric Week Combats Koch-Funded Lies With Real World
Drivers
September 11, 2017 Ben Jervey

[images  
https://www.desmogblog.com/sites/beta.desmogblog.com/files/styles/full_width_blog_image/public/blogimages/0542.jpeg?itok=uRvnzAq4
In Aiken, South Carolina, Cafe Scientifique Aiken's teen board member Sydney
Maddox sits behind the wheel of a Tesla Modle X. Credit: Cafe Scientifique
Aiken

https://www.desmogblog.com/sites/beta.desmogblog.com/files/Screen%20Shot%202017-09-09%20at%201.05.34%20AM.png
Credit: National Drive Electric Week


video
https://youtu.be/3L3rV2aXCGc
National Drive Electric Week
2 days ago - Uploaded by DeSmog Blog
National Drive Electric Week is September 9-17. The Koch brothers and their
fossil fuel industry allies are ...
]

There’s a war being waged against electric cars, the frontlines of which are
dug in on Facebook feeds and embedded Youtube videos. The ammunition,
supplied by the Koch brothers and their most loyal, PR savvy affiliates, are
talking points meant to sow doubt in the minds of American drivers about the
quality, costs, reliability, and even environmental-friendliness of electric
cars. Though many automotive experts—including some Big Oil majors—see the
transition to electric vehicles (EVs) as inevitable, this war is being waged
to keep the gas-guzzling internal combustion engine king for as long as
possible. They are fighting to keep oil demand high enough to justify
drilling, refining, and selling petroleum.

In the face of this war, Plug-In America, the country’s leading EV advocacy
organization, and its partners are organizing the seventh annual National
Drive Electric Week. And in the context of these PR attacks, this year’s
week long event—running from September 9-17th—might be more important than
ever.

National Drive Electric Week is a decentralized expo of sorts, an umbrella
under which EV drivers, fans, and advocates can organize their own electric
car showcases. There are more than two hundred events planned in all 50
states and in dozens of foreign countries. Most will offer test drives to
the public, and all will showcase current EV models to help Americans see
EVs for what they really are: practical vehicles that most households could
integrate into their current driving routines.

Critically, real EV drivers will be on hand at every event to offer their
real world perspectives on driving electric, which will help counter many of
the deceptive talking points that the Kochs and the oil companies are
pushing.

On Saturday, I was fortunate to be a part of the Upper Valley EV Expo in
White River Junction, Vermont. An estimated 500 people came to peek under
the hoods and take test drives of 15 different EV models, ranging from the
luxurious Tesla Roadster to the much more modest, sub-$30,000 models like
the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt.
[© desmogblog.com]




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[EVDL] EVLN: Jaguar restored an old E-type with an Electric upgrade (v)

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/09/jaguars-restored-this-old-e-type-with-an-electric-upgrade/
Jaguar has restored this old E-type with an electric upgrade
9/7/2017  Jonathan M. Gitlin

[images  
https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/jagetypezerocm1470917-980x653.jpg

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/jagetypezerocm13263070917-980x575.jpg

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/jagetypezerocm13233070917-980x653.jpg

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/jagetypezerocm13547070917-980x653.jpg

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/jagetypezerocm13414070917-980x653.jpg

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/jagetypezerocm13479070917-980x653.jpg
]

The batteries and motor are the same size and shape as the old XK
powertrain.

Ask any enthusiast and they'll tell you the same thing—if you want to build
a good electric vehicle, you have to start from the ground up. You sandwich
the battery pack between the axles, keep the center of gravity nice and low
to counteract all that weight, and go from there. That's why cars like the
Model S or Bolt are so much better than Californian compliance cars. But
we'll make an exception for electric restomods, stuff like one of
Zelectric's electric air-cooled conversions [
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/02/ever-wanted-an-electric-vw-beetle-zelectric-motors-has-you-covered/
]. Jaguar evidently agrees with our exception; while next year's I-Pace was
designed as an EV from the ground up, you can't say the same for its latest,
the E-type Zero.

The starting point was a Series 1.5 E-type convertible, built in Coventry
some time between 1967 and 1968. More recently it returned to the city and
to Jaguar, which has a nice sideline these days restoring its old cars and
even building continuations of things like the XKSS. Here's where things get
really interesting. Rather than just give it a nuts and bolts restoration
before selling it to a deep pocketed Jaguar lover, someone decided to take
out the old XK straight six engine along with the rest of the drivetrain and
replace it with an electric motor and batteries.

Instead of an engine block up front, there's a 40kWh lithium-ion battery
pack. The 220kW (295hp) motor comes next, where you'd expect to see a
gearbox. From there, a prop shaft sends power to the rear wheels via a
differential. But here's the really cool bit: the new powertrain has roughly
the same weight and dimensions as the old one, and the weight distribution
and center of gravity are where they were supposed to be. That obviates any
real worries about having to reengineer the car, since it will still handle
like it did in period, this time without the help of any leaded gasoline.
(In fact, the car is actually about 100lbs/46kg lighter now and a little
more powerful so it actually performs better than the original.)

Further Reading
Jaguar Land Rover to electrify all its cars by 2020
The E-type Zero reveal was accompanied with an announcement [
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/09/jaguar-land-rover-to-electrify-all-its-cars-by-2020/
] that from 2020, each new Jaguar and Land Rover model will have the option
of some form of electrification. Speaking at a tech forum that the company
is holding over in the UK currently, Dr Ralf Speth, Jaguar Land Rover CEO,
said, "We will introduce a portfolio of electrified products across our
model range, embracing fully electric, plug-in hybrid and mild hybrid
vehicles." Volvo made a similar announcement in July [
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/07/volvo-says-from-2019-all-new-models-it-introduces-will-be-electric-or-hybrid/
].

As amazing as the thought would be, I can't see the factory agreeing to put
this in a C-type or D-type for me.
Enlarge / As amazing as the thought would be, I can't see the factory
agreeing to put this in a C-type or D-type for me.

The E-type Zero has plenty of nerd appeal, although we imagine there might
be a purist or two out there who considers what Jaguar's Classic Works have
done to be sacrilege. Happily for those folks, the conversion here is
actually pretty minor; other than the new powertrain, some LED headlights,
and a new dashboard and instruments, the car hasn't been messed with. "We
have integrated the new electric powertrain into the existing E-type
structure, which means a conventional engine could be reinstalled at any
point. We think this is essential as it ensures a period Jaguar remains
authentic to its DNA," explained Tim Hanning, director of Jaguar Land Rover
Classic.

Thanks to the E-type's aerodynamic efficiency, the 40kWh battery is good for
about 170 miles of range. And because it's practically a drop-in replacement
for the old XK engine, JLR Classic should be able to take the technology and
stick it in any of the XK-engined cars built. Hanning said that the idea
with the E-type Zero was "to future-proof classic car ownership," adding
that the company is exploring whether 

[EVDL] EVLN: Magna installs 3 of their Electric motors in a Tesla-S EV

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://electrek.co/2017/09/06/a-tesla-model-s-prototype-gets-3-new-electric-motors-by-magna/
A Tesla Model S prototype gets 3 new electric motors by Magna
Sep. 6th 2017  Fred Lambert

[images  / Magna
https://electrek.co/2017/09/06/a-tesla-model-s-prototype-gets-3-new-electric-motors-by-magna/highly-integrated-edrive-high/

https://electrek.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/screen-shot-2017-09-06-at-3-30-01-pm-e1504726282738.png?w=1500=800
]

We have seen a few examples of Tesla powertrains being used in other
vehicles, whether it was in conversion projects or in Tesla’s powertrain
program with Toyota and Daimler, but the other way around is new to us.

Magna has unveiled a Model S prototype equipped with 3 of their new electric
motors – pictured above.

They took a dual motor Model S and replaced the front and rear motors by 3
of their own new E1 140-kW motors (188 hp) – one for each rear wheel and one
for the two front wheels.

CNET took a test ride in the vehicle:

“Magna’s test driver takes me for a short spin on the roads around the
company’s facility in Graz, Austria. He floors it from a stop, and I
experience the car’s incredibly quick acceleration. Is it quicker than the
2.3 seconds to 60 mph boasted by the Model S P100D? I’m not timing it, but
it feels like it’s in that general ballpark.”

It’s doubtful that it could actually be faster than a normal Model S P100D
on a clean straight line, but there’s no doubt that the torque vectoring in
the back has its advantages.

highly-integrated-edrive-high
e1-demo-vehicle

It enables them to quickly correct the torque in each real wheel in order to
improve handling.

The Tier One auto supplier doesn’t actually plan to commercialize this
particular version of its electric powertrain, but it serves as a showcase
of their technology, which they offer to automakers looking to develop new
electric vehicle platform.

As recently reported, it has been a recent focus of auto suppliers lately.
Williams just unveiled a new lightweight electric car platform, GKN
Driveline revealed a next-gen electric drive system, and several other top
suppliers have also been leading similar efforts to take advantage of the
industry’s transition to electric propulsion.
[© electrek.co]



http://gearsofbiz.com/magna-shows-tesla-that-three-motors-work-better-than-two/45217
Magna shows Tesla that three motors work better than two
7 September 2017  Automotive equipment supplier Magna demonstrates a
three-motor electric ... While the car clearly started life as a Model S,
its Magna and E1 badges hint at ...




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[EVDL] EVLN: williamsf1.com teases with a 480kW battery-powered superEV

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/1709/williams-teases-480kw-battery-powered-supercar
Williams teases 480kW battery-powered supercar
Sep 07, 2017  Barry Park

[images  
https://d3lp4xedbqa8a5.cloudfront.net/imagegen/max/658/-/s3/digital-cougar-assets/wheels/2017/09/07/114399/Williams-electric-supercar-platform-(4)_main.jpg

https://d3lp4xedbqa8a5.cloudfront.net/s3/digital-cougar-assets/wheels/2017/09/07/Misc/Williams-electric-supercar-platform-(4)_side_on.jpg

https://d3lp4xedbqa8a5.cloudfront.net/s3/digital-cougar-assets/wheels/2017/09/07/Misc/Williams-electric-supercar-platform-(4)_rear.jpg

https://d3lp4xedbqa8a5.cloudfront.net/s3/digital-cougar-assets/wheels/2017/09/07/Misc/Williams-electric-supercar-platform-(4)_rear_hero.jpg
]

MERCEDES-Benz and Aston Martin aren’t the only car makers bringing Formula
One technology to the road. Now F1 manufacturer Williams wants in on the
party, launching an experimental battery-powered platform it thinks could
one day sit under a road car.

Williams Advanced Engineering, the technology, testing and engineering
division of the F1 constructor, says its FW-EVX electric vehicle platform
that it claims is lighter, safer and greener, with longer range and better
performance than anything else out there.

Williams electric supercar platform“With the car industry currently focussed
on how it transitions from the internal combustion engine to a fully
electric future, a major challenge for manufacturers is how to maximise
vehicle efficiency, given current limitations,” Williams Advanced
Engineering said in a statement.

“The concept features several innovations in battery pack design, cooling
systems and lightweight structures, which have each been cleverly integrated
into a single, scalable platform.”

What is it? Looking something like a McDonald’s fast food tray suspended
between four pretty cool-looking lightweight alloy wheels connected to the
chassis via fibre-reinforced suspension components that cut weight by 40
percent compared with conventinal aluminium wishbones. They’re made using
what Williams claims is a highly automated process that produces “near zero”
waste. all up, the composite and aluminium structure weighs 955kg, with the
batteries alone contributing to 340kg of that.

The design also uses the chassis rails to provide cooling air to the 380
batteries arranged in three rows across the body. All up, Williams estimates
the platform will support a supercar weighing in around 1750kg, with a range
of more than 550km.

“Another innovation being showcased is the process of forming high-strength
3D structures from 2D materials which, in this instance, has created an
exoskeleton for a battery module that also contributes to the structural
performance of the battery,” it said.

Williams electric supercar platform“The P1166 transmission, fully integrated
with YASA P400 motor-generator, meets the tight packaging and lightweight
requirements for the front axle of Williams’ innovative modular lightweight
electric car chassis,” a statement from Xtrac, which will supply the
gearbox, said.

“It’s complemented at the rear by Xtrac’s P1227 transmission with torque
vectoring capability, which made its debut in 2016, and which has already
been selected by customers for high performance EV applications.” Oh, and it
also torque-vectors.

It then goes on to say that the transmission is rated to a maximum speed of
“over 10,000rpm”, and when combined with the three electric motors that the
Williams chassis uses, “the overall rating of the Williams powertrain is
480kW”.

The chassis shown is all-wheel drive, but Williams said the single 160kW
motor for the front axle could be deleted, leaving a 320kW twin-motor
rear-drive layout. The platform on display has an 80kWh energy capacity on a
2800mm wheelbase, although Williams said the modular design would allow
more, or less, capacity.

Williams electric supercar platformWhatever the gearbox goes in, though, it
won’t be a volume model. Xtrac said it had the capacity to produce 1000 of
the gearboxes a year, although it did have other high-end clients, including
car makers and motorsport teams, on its books.

So why did Williams want to build a car without a body? “Vehicle efficiency
has always been core to Williams, whether it be in Formula One or with
Williams Advanced Engineering’s customer projects,” Williams Advanced
Engineering technical director Paul McNamara said.

“These technologies, and our thinking around how to create a tightly
integrated, lightweight chassis and powertrain package, have the potential
to greatly increase the competitiveness of the next generation of electric
vehicles.

“By making EVs more attractive to consumers, we can help accelerate their
adoption and the air quality benefits they bring,” he said.

Williams Advanced Engineering already has electric vehicle experience,
having built the Bladeglider concept for Nissan, and supplying the advanced
batteries used in the Formula E open-wheeler series that is