Re: [EVDL] Are you NACS-charging a non-Tesla

[Jay Summet via EV]

I have a solar system on my house, and have seen my "240" volt circuit 
jump as high as 245 when the solar system is adding 10 kw flowing back 
into the grid, never had an issue charging my Nissan Leaf at that 
slightly over spec range.


I read somewhere that the national line voltage limits are 230V + 10% or 
- 6% (253.3V-216.2V).


Jay

On 9/4/24 01:23, Rush via EV wrote:

The J1772 Spec from the 2017 SAE Standard states -

Table 9 - AC charging electrical ratings (North America)
AC Level 2 208 to 240 V AC, 1-phase ≤ 80 A Per NEC 625

So your 245VAC may not be safe for some EV's

Best,

Rush Dougherty
TucsonEV
www.TucsonEV.com


-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Cor van de Water via EV
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2024 6:24 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
Cc: Cor van de Water 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Are you NACS-charging a non-Tesla

So, best to use a little step-down transformer on your TeslaTap... I have a "dry
type" 240V to 32V 1kVA transformer and I wire the secondary in series with
the primary so that when putting 277V on the series connection, it drops 32V
and delivers a safe 245V from the primary winding.

On Tue, Sep 3, 2024 at 5:55 PM (-Phil-)  wrote:


Yes, I personally witnessed this happen at a Casino in Reno.   Many Tesla

destination chargers are wired to 277VAC.


On Tue, Sep 3, 2024 at 5:31 PM Cor van de Water via EV 

wrote:


The only concern I would have with using a TeslaTap on an unknown
destination charger is that you are not guaranteed that the charger
won't damage your non-Tesla EV.
Because the Tesla charger is specifically specified to allow anything
between 100-277V so, while not common, some electrician may use a
commercial site's 277V parking lot lighting connection to wire up a
destination charger, making it very dangerous for any non-Tesla EV to
plug in...

On Tue, Sep 3, 2024 at 2:15 PM Rush via EV  wrote:


There are currently lots of versions of the 'teslatap'. It is just
an adapter that changes one type of connection to another, Tesla
inlet to J1772 plug. There are no resistors, diodes, PCB's or any
electronic components in it. That is because the J1772 L1 and L2
protocols are used by Tesla and all the other J1772 EV's

Years ago, in 2016, I tried to produce an injection molded Tesla to
J1772 Adapter but found it way beyond my financial means. I did
learn how the Tesla plug/inlet was able to accept both 120vac and
HVDC using the same pin connector. Tesla uses BalSeal type coil
springs in adjacent configurations to transfer the current from
male to female connector so that there are lots of contact points
for current transfer whereas the J1772 connector uses just a simple
pin connector so that there are only 4 contact points for current flow.

Best,

Rush Dougherty
TucsonEV
www.TucsonEV.com


-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
via EV
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2024 8:37 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Lawrence Rhodes 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Are you NACS-charging a non-Tesla

  I have used a TeslaTap at destination chargers for years, on a Leaf.

Lawrence

Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Used EVs

[Jay Summet via EV]

At that price range, I'd recommend looking at the (Gen 2, 2018 and 
later) Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt.


Both of those I've seen in the 12-16K range depending upon age/miles and 
trim level.


If you want to guarantee you can get one under 13k, you might consider 
the 2015-2017 (Gen 1.5) Nissan Leaf's...they have less range but can be 
had in the 8k-10k range.  [But mostly useful as an around town car due 
to smaller battery capacity and lower range.]


Jay

On 8/19/24 14:15, Mark Laity-Snyder via EV wrote:

I am interested in getting a cheap EV.  What are your favorite EVs that are a 
great deal for the money.  I am looking to spend less than $13K.
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Re: [EVDL] Charging port locations

[Jay Summet via EV]

I suspect that most people are more comfortable maneuvering their car 
between two other cars (with only 6-20" on each side) nose in.


When you back out of a parking space, there is a LOT of room behind your 
car, without things on either side (usually).


Jay

On 8/8/24 12:38, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:

What I don't understand is WHY this way is the minority?   Is it because
people just don't think that far ahead?   Is it because I'm an Engineer and
I have EBS? (Engineer Brain Syndrome)

To me, Parking is just a subsystem of driving, with a "long tail", so you
have to think ahead.

On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 9:22 AM j...@k6ccc.org  wrote:


You said (in part):

I know I'm going to be in the minority here, except for Peri, but I

prefer

to back in for most parking lots and at home.


Amen - for all the reasons you cited...
About the only tie I don't back into a space is if I can pull through.
Get the best of both worlds that way.

73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org
626-482-0927




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[EVDL] Anybody in the Central Florida Area looking for old Nissan Leaf modules?

[Jay Summet via EV]

Back in 2015 I disassembled a 2013 Nissan Leaf battery pack and 
re-packaged the modules into 16 volt "batteries". Each "battery" has 6 
modules, in a 3 parallel 2 series arrangement, with copper busbars and 
compression plates made of plywood.   They are tapped/wired for BMS 
systems, but have no BMS systems attached.


Details:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF3PKiim61U

These guys were wired up in a 128v at 500+ amps battery pack for my 
Chevy S10 conversion for many years, until I sold the truck (without the 
batteries, because the buyer had his own he wanted to use.)


Anyways, I have at least 6 of these battery modules sitting in storage 
not being used, so if you are near the Orlando area and have a use for 
some/all of them, get in touch. I'm looking to basically give them away 
to a good home.


No capacity guarantee, but my best estimate is that they are around 50% 
of the "factory new" capacity now (11 years later...), which would be 
around 1.5 kWh per six module battery.  I've used some for a backup 
power system for a well pump and for a boat, they would also be great 
for off-grid storage, etc...


If I don't hear from anybody on this list, I'll probably offer them to 
the local EV facebook group.



Jay


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[EVDL] Aptera ditches in-wheel motors.....

[Jay Summet via EV]

Yet another car manufacturer who intended to use in-wheel motors but 
ended up with inboard.




"Motor change: Aptera has integrated Vitesco Technologies’ EMR3 
drivetrain into our production vehicles. Although we originally planned 
to launch with an in-wheel motor solution, the development time required 
for this technology did not align with our scheduled launch window for 
customer deliveries. This change ensures our ability to deliver Aptera 
vehicles in 2025, which we believe is the most important thing to do for 
the company, our shareholders, and our future Aptera owners. "



Jay
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Re: [EVDL] [External] Re: EVLN: Tesla cuts 3 major departments

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 5/4/24 15:41, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:


Anyway, we're those folks who stay behind the slow traffic because we don't
want or need to go faster.  If we're not in a hurry, which is most of the
time, we'd rather go slower and save electricity, range, and battery life.


Heh, I guess I'm not the only one who sits well behind a slow semi 
truck, letting everyone behind me blame them for my slow speed, and 
knowing that anybody who whips around me to pass won't pull right in 
front of me because they don't want to be behind the semi truck


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery pack for an E-10

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 3/18/24 18:37, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:

Note: You really do NOT need to tie the center posts to anything other 
than a BMS.  Even with cells in parallel.


In my leaf pack I had a 3 Parallel x 16 Series battery pack.

I tied each of the 3 "sense" center posts together for each set of 3 
cells.  [The only thing these tied together center posts were connected 
to was my BMSbut I did tie the 3 center posts together.]


How would your BMS work if it was not connected to the center posts?
Did you connect to only 1 of the 3 center posts in my example? (I was 
worried that if I did this the bms itself would draw more current from 
one of my 3 leaf modules than the other two, causing them to get out of 
balance with each other.


Jay

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Re: [EVDL] consumer reports EV reliability

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 11/30/23 11:15, Bill Dube via EV wrote:
These stats don't align with my personal experience. We have owned two 
used Leafs over the past 7 years and have had zero (0) issues. 


Our used leaf has also been bulletproof.

However, our other PHEV has been in the shop for 569 of the 1076 days we 
have owned it (3 separate subsystem problems, + several recalls).


So I'm willing to believe that non-leaf EV's and HEV's / PHEV's have had 
issues, especially as manufacturers are starting up new models/lines 
with new technology.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Shorting a A123 26650 Cell

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 11/28/23 17:15, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:


I always regard that PSA as bollocks, monitor my smoke alarms and when they
beep or stop blinking the red light once a minute, *then* I replace the
battery. Happens maybe every 5 years, so I am not trashing cells that are
more than 90% capacity.


My (networked) smoke alarms take 2 AA batteries, and if you let them go 
2 years will randomly start to have false alarms (in the entire house, 
at night!), so I religiously change them out every year with a calendar 
reminder.


I label the old AA's "LOW" with a sharpy and use them in kids toys 
without resenting the cost as they are now "free kids batteries".


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Shorting a A123 26650 Cell

[Jay Summet via EV]

Lithium batteries are no joke.  I personally have had more than one
accident and many close calls despite being well aware of the danger and
being very careful. 


My story involves a Nissan Leaf module. I had sat one upright against 
one of the steel compression plates and a table leg while assembling a 
battery. While working on the table vibrated it enough that the bottom 
of the module slid out and the top (with terminals) slid down the steel 
compression plate (sparking all the way). I kicked them apart (just) 
before it spot welded the terminals to the steel plate all my 
modules had electrical tape over the terminals after that


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] [GGEVA] Selling my Leaf.

[Jay Summet via EV]

The bars do not map directly to percentage health capacity (the first 
bar counts double).


12/12 bars is 85-100%

85% to 78.75% = 11 bars (6.25%)
78.75% to 72.5% = 10 bars (6.25%)
72.5% to 66.25% = 9 bars (6.25%)
66.25% to 60% = 8 bars (6.25%)


7/12 bars would equate to a SOH of: 60% to 53.75%


Jay

On 11/22/23 14:54, Ken Olum via EV wrote:

From: Lawrence Rhodes 
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2023 05:41:54 + (UTC)

The Leaf is a 2016 with 70% battery health(7bars)with 98k on the
clock.

On my 2013 Leaf, there are 12 potential bars of battery health, so 7
bars would mean 7/12, not 70%.  Is the 2016 different?

 Ken

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Cybertruck buyer's remorse not allowed?

[Jay Summet via EV]

This is a common type of contract for many high end / high demand 
vehicles.   Some exotic sports cars are only offered to previous good 
customers, and they are prevented from re-selling them for a set time 
period for similar reasons.


As long as you entered into the contract of your own free will, they are 
enforceable in civil courts.



If you don't want to agree to the contract, wait a year and then buy it 
used from somebody who did



Jay

On 11/12/23 19:23, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:
Most likely to try and prevent the fake "Tesla dealers".  The truck will 
be in high demand, so they want to prevent scalpers.


On 11/12/2023 3:59 PM, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:
I've been saying for years that if you buy a Tesla, you don't really 
own it.


It seems that goes double for the Cybertruck.

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-sue-cybertruck-buyers-they-resell-in-
first-year-2023-11


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Re: [EVDL] EV Towing

[Jay Summet via EV]

I still don't understand why the Tesla-3 says no towing and the Y does with
the *same* drive train.



1. Different frame.

2. So they can justify charging more for the Y.

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Bolt road trip

[Jay Summet via EV]

Thanks!
Jay

On 10/7/23 10:26, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

It's a 2023. Found it by license plate lookup.
Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>


-- Original Message --
From: "Peri Hartman" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Sent: 07-Oct-23 07:22:44
Subject: Re[2]: [EVDL] Bolt road trip

It was brand new, about 1000 miles. I presume that means 2023, but 
could be 2024, don't know.


The seats themselves seemed fine for me. But the head rest spoiled it. 
I was able to find a reasonably comfortable position by tilting the 
seat back a bit excessively, so that the head rest wouldn't push my 
head past vertical. That meant bringing the seat forward so my arms 
would reach the steering wheel. It also meant the middle pillar was 
blocking my side view a bit.


If I owned the car, I would find a way to change the angle on the head 
rests.


Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>


-- Original Message --
From: "Jay Summet via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Jay Summet" 
Sent: 07-Oct-23 02:34:45
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bolt road trip

What year Bolt was it, and how did you find the comfort of the front 
seats?


We test drove a (2017??) Bolt a while back and both my wife and I 
felt that the front seats "pinched" our hips (too narrow and weirdly 
shaped).


I'd be interested to know if they have improved the seats or if you 
noticed that but didn't think to mention it?


Jay

On 10/7/23 00:16, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
I just finished a road trip in a Bolt rental car. Went round trip 
from Boston to Cape Code. I'm thinking some people would like to 
hear how it worked to take a vacation (wedding and other activities) 
in a Bolt.


Overall, I was very pleased with the car. It was quiet, adequately 
powerful, and the battery has plenty of range for that trip - about 
100 miles each way.


There are no level 3 chargers in Cape Cod, so we had to find places 
to leave the car for a few hours and do something else. Fortunately, 
there were several level 2 chargers in Orleans, near where we 
stayed. I was able to charge there several times while taking nature 
walks or eating a meal. It worked out pretty well.


It would have been better if the rental agency had provided a 120V 
cable as we could have charged at our accommodation. Next time I'll 
be thinking about that.


The rental agency expects the car to be returned with 80% charge. 
That was the real challenge. The Bolt fails miserably, as I think 
most people know, at level 3 charging. It took about 1h20 to charge 
from about 25% to 85%. That is substantially slower than most other 
contemporary EVs.


So, I think the Bolt makes a great car to take on short road trips 
but probably not on longer ones, since you will need to charge for 
1-2 hours every so often.


The only other thing I would mention is the damned head rests. They 
aren't reversible like in most cars. For me, they force my head too 
far forward, which causes back slump and neck pain.


All in all, I'm pleased we drove an EV rather than an ICE. And our 
friends enjoyed rides in it, too.


Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

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Re: [EVDL] Bolt road trip

[Jay Summet via EV]

What year Bolt was it, and how did you find the comfort of the front seats?

We test drove a (2017??) Bolt a while back and both my wife and I felt 
that the front seats "pinched" our hips (too narrow and weirdly shaped).


I'd be interested to know if they have improved the seats or if you 
noticed that but didn't think to mention it?


Jay

On 10/7/23 00:16, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
I just finished a road trip in a Bolt rental car. Went round trip from 
Boston to Cape Code. I'm thinking some people would like to hear how it 
worked to take a vacation (wedding and other activities) in a Bolt.


Overall, I was very pleased with the car. It was quiet, adequately 
powerful, and the battery has plenty of range for that trip - about 100 
miles each way.


There are no level 3 chargers in Cape Cod, so we had to find places to 
leave the car for a few hours and do something else. Fortunately, there 
were several level 2 chargers in Orleans, near where we stayed. I was 
able to charge there several times while taking nature walks or eating a 
meal. It worked out pretty well.


It would have been better if the rental agency had provided a 120V cable 
as we could have charged at our accommodation. Next time I'll be 
thinking about that.


The rental agency expects the car to be returned with 80% charge. That 
was the real challenge. The Bolt fails miserably, as I think most people 
know, at level 3 charging. It took about 1h20 to charge from about 25% 
to 85%. That is substantially slower than most other contemporary EVs.


So, I think the Bolt makes a great car to take on short road trips but 
probably not on longer ones, since you will need to charge for 1-2 hours 
every so often.


The only other thing I would mention is the damned head rests. They 
aren't reversible like in most cars. For me, they force my head too far 
forward, which causes back slump and neck pain.


All in all, I'm pleased we drove an EV rather than an ICE. And our 
friends enjoyed rides in it, too.


Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

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[EVDL] Replacement smart EVSE innards....

[Jay Summet via EV]

My classic (silver) JuiceBox 40 Pro has given up the ghost (6 short 
beeps, possibly indicating a pilot fault to ground error, although when 
I test continuity of the pilot line from the J1772 plug to the circuit 
board and/or to ground I don't find any issues...)


I have a replacement "dumb" EVSE to charge with, but I do miss the 
ability to set a "maximum charge amount" (either via percentage or KWh) 
on the phone app whenever I plugged in to keep my Leaf charged up to 
(but not over) 80%.


As far as I can tell, the cords/box are all good, and it's just a 
problem with the circuit board.


I was wondering if anybody had experiance with something like OpenEVSE 
(or similar) where you could buy a kit of the interior parts and re-use 
the box/power/j1772 plug wires.


The only real feature I'm looking for is 30-40 amp capacity (original 
was 40 amp with a NEMA 14-50 plug, but I only need 27.5 for the Leaf) 
and the ability to limit the charge amount (time/kwh) on a per charge 
basis (ideally with a phone app, but I'd also consider a touch pad GUI 
type solution).


Comments or suggestions?

I could also buy a new JuiceBox 40 Pro for about $500 [They offered me a 
$100 discount coupon based of of my old one failing well outside of 
warranty] so I'm looking for a $250 or lower price point for replacement 
parts...+ my effort installing.


Thanks,
Jay
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Re: [EVDL] (EVDL)EV charging is changing

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 9/5/23 17:51, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:



2. It's limited.  It can't carry much cargo or many people.  This again
raises the value-for-money question. It might have around 80 miles less
range, but in parts of Europe a similar price gets you a Dacia Spring EV
that can haul 4 people in relative comfort, and a week or two of groceries.



Yes, it's a 3 wheel motorcycle with only a 2 person capacitybut it 
does have a lot of cargo room under that long back hatch. [It converts 
into a bed that can sleep twoand can easily carry a week's worth of 
groceries.]




Jay
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Re: [EVDL] HV cable suppliers

[Jay Summet via EV]

I've had good luck ordering welding cable by the foot from various ebay 
suppliers.  The last order I made was from:


https://www.ebay.com/str/acdcwireandsupply

Jay

On 7/20/23 12:59, Dave Lagzdin via EV wrote:

Perhaps this isn't the best place to ask buit if someone wishes to redirect
me that is good too

 From time to time I need HV shielded cable typically 50 or 70mm 1/0 2/0.
Looking for more suppliers, ones that respool as I don't need that much
50-100 ft at a time.
North America preferred but open to ideas
Can someone point me?
Dave
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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 128, Issue 17

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 6/23/23 09:45, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:


Very interesting that the Chargepoint electricity (10 cents / kWh) is
actually cheaper than your home electricity (13 cents / kWh).  Bravo for
Kent and Chargepoint.



I have access to multiple chargepoint EVSE's that are "free" (no cost 
for charging, although some have an idle charge if you remain parked 
after finishing the charge).


The cost is subsidized by my local city, a local employer, etc...  So it 
would be perfectly feasable to "drive for free" if I was willing to 
drive a few miles and wait to charge. (Some Uber/Lift drivers will use 
this while waiting for ride hails)


But at 0.14c per kwh, it is a better use of my time to charge at home. 
(I also have solar, so I "pre-paid" for my electric usage when 
installing the system...the 0.14c per kwh is the current Duke energy rate.)


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 128, Issue 17

[Jay Summet via EV]

Maybe others here would like to post their per-mile (or per-km) costs.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey



2015 Nissan Leaf S getting 4.8 miles per KWH, Duke energy in Florida 
(0.14 per kWh) = $0.029  (3 cents per mile of fuel costs...tire costs 
are probably more per mile)


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 128, Issue 17

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 6/21/23 18:50, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:


At 28mpg (Kia Sportage ICEV), fuel cost per mile = $0.128

At 43mpg (Kia Sportage Hybrid), fuel cost per mile = $0.083

At 29kWh / 100mi  (Kia EV6), electricity cost per mile = $0.142



Ignoring the hybrid fuel cost red hearing (as the hybrid won't get 43mgh 
on the freeway, and if you are not doing a road trip, you'd charge at 
home), 0.12c per mile vs 0.14c per mile is so close that most American's 
won't care about the difference.


Plus, it's not polluting at the tailpipe. And, if you charge at home 
it's a lot cheaper, so you'd really only charge at a supercharger for 
road trips...and if the price is close to that of gas for road 
tripsstill seems like a reasonable price for the public good.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 128, Issue 17

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 6/21/23 15:40, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:

I agree about the invasive logging, which is why I offer the service to
disconnect a Tesla from Tesla's back end.   This can be done in degrees, so
no communication, only needed communication, or just no logging/telemetry
(software updates still possible).

But Tesla isn't the only one, pretty much all automakers, EV or not, now
have fully connected infotainment.   Just like a smartphone, your car is
now in constant communication with their back-end.   In fact, GM was one of
the first into this with OnStar in 2011.  Since then the amount of data
collected has only increased.



If the Nissan Leaf experience is any indication, older cars will start 
to lose communications with the factory after their warranty expires. In 
the case of the Leaf, the 2G cellular modems they used stopped working 
completely as various telecommunications companies upgraded to 3G/4G and 
shut down their 2G networks. If you wanted to retain telematics, you had 
to take proactive action and pay to have the modem upgraded to 3G.


[Also, cellular data plans cost money, as soon as the manufacturer stops 
paying for them, you would be limited to wifi, etc...]


So I expect that in a few years on the used market, you'll start finding 
that it costs money if you want to keep telemetries services (remote 
climate, unlock, charge monitoring, etc...)



Jay
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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 128, Issue 17

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 6/20/23 22:51, EV@TucsonEV via EV wrote:


AC Level 2  208 to 240 V AC, 1-phase? 80 A
Per NEC 625



"240 volt" power really has an acceptable range of voltage from 228 
volts to 252.  (My home regularly sits at 245 volts).


But yes, pulling from one leg of a 3 phase at 277 volts is too much for 
a "240" volt circuit, although a lot of hardware will "work" at slightly 
higher voltages...until it doesn't.


Since the Tesla destination chargers are designed to only work with 
Teslas, which are presumably all designed to work at higher voltages 
when charging, the problem appears to be people selling and marketing 
NCAS -> J1772 adapters that do not detect this over voltage condition 
and refuse to pass through the over-voltage or at least have a warning 
light of some sort and educate the user about what it means so they can 
determine if their vehicle can handle the extra voltage.


[I assume the NCAS standard allows 277 volt AC charging...since the 
installation manual shows it being set up that way]


Jay

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Re: [EVDL] White House welcomes Tesla to take advantage of federal dollars for chargers

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 6/20/23 13:19, EV@TucsonEV via EV wrote:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/white-house-says-tesla-chargers-available-feder
al-dollars-long-they-include-ccs-2023-06-09/

  


I don't know how many of you caught this Reuters article, it seems that Tesla
Superchargers are great for America as long as they include the U.S. charging
standard connection, CCS, as well.

  


Looks like the CCS consortium still has a great deal of influence of political
influence.

  


My understanding is that the J1772 plug/standard and CSS standards are 
the "official" standards for the United States, developed by SAE with 
wide-spread industry participation, so I would expect them to be 
officially supported by any governmental subsidies, tax incentives, etc.


 https://www.sae.org/standards/content/j1772_201710/


It's fine for TESLA to market and promote a competing standard, but the 
government usually follows the guidance of the national academies, and 
large scale industry standards associations as opposed to those provided 
by a single company.


So I would expect the SAE and other national standards groups to have 
more influence than any single company, as they typically represent a 
broad swath of the industry.



Jay
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Re: [EVDL] need new home ESVE

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 6/18/23 18:44, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:

I do not recommend the mobile connector for daily use, it's got pretty thin
cable and has a lot more loss, and eventually the cable seems to fail not
far from the handle.  


Knowing this is a common failure mode is useful when considering if you 
want to use it daily or just keep it as a backup in your trunk.


 If you spent many kilobucks on an EV, you can spend

$500 on a wall-mounted EVSE.   Using a portable EVSE for daily use is like
using a garden hose to supply water to your house.


Using a wall mounted L2 EVSE is nice, but many "portable" EVSE's provide 
plenty of amps and qualify as a "level 2" even if they are not wall 
mounted. (look for a 32 amp or higher one that plugs into a NEMA 14-50 
receptacle)


However, even a L1 "portable" EVSE that charges at only 8 or 12 amps, 
even at 120 volts can work for many EV users. As long as you can easily 
park/charge overnight, and have a large enough battery (and a low enough 
average driving distance requirement) even a "garden hose" can keep your 
EV fully topped up.  12 hours of charging a day can get you 20-40 miles 
of range every night. If you drive less than that on average, you will 
be fine unless/until you need to take back to back long trips, at which 
point you may need to visit a DCFC (Level 3) fast charger.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] need new home ESVE

[Jay Summet via EV]

Unless you have a vehicle with a NACS inlet, or plan to get one very 
soon, I would recommend sticking with a J1772 plug natively instead of 
using an adapter. Every adapter in the chain is a potential point of 
failure (high resistance leading to overheating and melting parts).


Jay

On 6/18/23 11:01, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

  I would recommend the NACS(Tesla mobile adapter). $230. I have seen NACS to 
J1772 for $69(60amp). Most robust hardware you can buy. Hard to beat the price. 
Comes with 14-50 plug. Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Game over the Tesla NACS wins the day

[Jay Summet via EV]

My understanding is that a Level 2 (J1772) charger does basically 
thatit uses the pilot pin to indicate how many amps can be pulled, 
and the car is expected to limit amp draw to that amount.


(unless you use a card or phone app to "enable" or pay for the J1772 
charger, in which chase they get the account info you used to set up the 
account with the charging network.)


Jay

On 6/11/23 04:29, Bill Dube via EV wrote:

     Perhaps some enterprising person will come up with an "anonymizer" 
charging cord that will limit the data from your car to the very minimum 
needed to get a charge. (A bit like the "power but not data sharing" USB 
cord that your use to connect your phone to public airport phone 
charging stations.)  Perhaps it might disguise your vehicle as some very 
early, unintelligent, very basic EV that just replies with generic; 
"More please, I'm fine, and We are done."

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla wants to buy out your free supercharging

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 5/18/23 19:43, paul dove wrote:

So, according to google a leaf in 2015 was 33 to $36k.

> I paid $42k for my model 3 in 2018.

We paid $12k for our 2015 Leaf in 2017 by buying it used (off lease).

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Tesla wants to buy out your free supercharging

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 5/17/23 18:49, paul dove via EV wrote:

So, what is your alternative. A leaf?


We've owned a 2015 leaf S (24kwh battery) since 2017 and it has been 
rock solid.


We are currently also trying out a 2021 Leaf Plus (2nd gen  -62 kwh 
battery) and have been very pleased with it as well.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] 2013 Leaf Regen during cold weather

[Jay Summet via EV]

Regen can sometimes be limited to protect the battery. (For example, 
when the battery is fully charged so shouldn't be accepting more charge, 
when it is very cold (so shouldn't be charged),etc...


[Also, I believe as the battery ages, at some point (8 capacity bars?) 
regen is limited or cut off just because the battery health has gotten 
low (total capacity is lower, so they worry about putting as many amps 
into the battery)]


You might be running into a combination of cold and battery capacity 
that disables the regen temporarily until the battery temp gets warm 
enough to go over whatever threshold is set in the BMS.


[People don't usually notice the cold weather charging limit, because a 
lot of the time they charge immediately after driving, which warms up 
the battery but if you plug in the car when the battery is too cold, 
it will (only) run the battery heater until the cells warm up enough to 
be charged...]



Jay

On 3/19/23 18:25, Mark Hanson via EV wrote:

Hi Folks
Last year when regen was intermittently dropping out at 26F degrees, I took it 
to the stealership who said it was a bad 12V battery they wanted to replace for 
$500.  I got an Optima at Advance Auto and then this year (surprise ) the 
problem is back. I assume they must be turning off the regen when it gets below 
26F.  Not sure why since the battery tolerates 100s of amps load, going through 
other way shouldn’t matter.
Best regards
Mark

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] 2 acre riding lawn mower

[Jay Summet via EV]

I have almost the full set of Ego lawn / power products (no snow blower, 
and using the self propelled mower instead of the riding one...) and 
have been happy with them with one exception...



The self propel unit on their early mowers would go out. (I had the 
mower replaced 2-3 times, and the self propel until repaired twice under 
their 5 year warrantyso the warranty coverage was finebut I had 
to use it WAY too much..my yard is large enough that I probably 
should be using the riding mowerso perhaps I was just using it a lot 
more than their engineers had planned...nothing else would die, just the 
self propel units...)


Now I'm out of warranty, but the latest repair is still going strong 
(plus I've purchased a few extra mowers when they would come up on the 
used market to get a few extra 7.5 AH batteriesso I should have 
enough mowers for a while)


Jay

On 2/9/23 10:01, Rod Hower via EV wrote:

  My son-in-law has an Ego self propelled push mower and just purchased a $1600 
self propelled snow blower.  I'm an electrical engineer and have tinkered with 
electrics for 32 years and I'll have to say the Ego products above are very 
well designed and durable.  He has only used the snowblower once, but it cut 
right through a 2 foot snow drift with no problems, throwing the snow about 15 
to 20'.  I haven't seen the Ego riding mower, but based on the units above I 
would think they are also well built.
 On Thursday, February 9, 2023 at 09:38:58 AM EST, Peri Hartman via EV 
 wrote:
  
  Thank you, Paul.


I can only imagine how hard it is to tap out a message while a chihauhau
is jumping on you :)

That said, Ego is a relative new comer and much smaller than Deere, Cat,
Toro, to name a few (I have no idea if the others are making EVs). Maybe
it isn't significant, but I'm hoping that when buyers see a very
familiar brand promoting an electric riding mower, they will have
confidence. People like you and me seek out companies like Ego. I'm just
guessing, but I suspect most people have never heard of Ego.

Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "paul dove" 
To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
List" 
Sent: 09-Feb-23 06:24:51
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [EVDL] 2 acre riding lawn mower


I apologize! Sincerely was not trying to be rude.

Originally I was going to post a link. Seems when I do that it includes
a bunch of graphics and the forum rejects those. In addition, my
chihuahua was jumping on me while typing in my phone and I didn’t give
much thought to how it sounded. I merely intended to let people know
others were making them. I will try to do better.

Paul


Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, February 9, 2023, 8:18 AM, Peri Hartman
 wrote:


Paul, you needn't be so rude. I think highly of ego, but wasn't aware
of their product. If you don't like my posts, don't read them.
Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "paul dove" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Peri Hartman" 
Sent: 09-Feb-23 05:53:21
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2 acre riding lawn mower


There are several companies making them. I guess ego is not a major
manufacturer in your mind.


Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, February 8, 2023, 11:12 PM, Peri Hartman via EV
 wrote:


Well, not something you would take on the road, but I'm glad to see
a
major manufacturer, John Deere, producing an electric riding lawn
mower.
The small gas engines are the worst polluters and the noise in the
neighborhoods has got to go, too.

https://electrek.co/2023/02/08/john-deere-launches-first-electric-zero-turn-mower/

...
The electric mower features a 3.2 kWh (3.56 kWh maximum) sealed
lithium-ion battery capable of mowing up to two acres per charge.

With a 42-inch Accel Deep Deck and two adjustable mowers, the
zero-emission EV delivers the same productivity and cut quality as
its
gas-powered counterparts, with added benefits. The electric
transaxle
has a seven mph maximum forward speed, three different modes which
can
be controlled from a large LCD screen, and zero turn capabilities
for
the perfect lines each time.
...

Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

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Re: [EVDL] Leaf heat no go.

[Jay Summet via EV]

Most Leaf's have resistive heating elements (except for those that have 
a heat pump...but since your AC is working and the heat is not, you 
probably don't have a heat pump).


Is is an early (2011-2013) model?  I've heard that the resistive heating 
element on those guys are prone to going out.  They are powered directly 
at pack voltage (in some models they have their own special connections 
to the main battery pack) so any 12v fuse would be only to operator the 
contactors inside the battery.


There are probably some diagnostic procedures you can try (disconnecting 
and testing the ohm reading of the heating element, etc...) before 
tearing your dash apart, you might check YouTube or an online service 
manual if you can find one.


Jay

On 2/3/23 18:19, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

  AC and defrost works but no heat is coming out. Should I start looking at 
fuses? I have an OBD dongle. Will the problem be detected by it? Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla accepting CCS

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 12/18/22 14:34, Lee Hart via EV wrote:




My wife is one of those who refuse to consider a Tesla vehicle based
upon his (miss) behavior...


I think this is an example of the logical fallacies that permeate our 
society today. 
Basically, it's an "Ad hominem" (to the man) argument (attacking the 
man, rather than what he has produced). Musk may be a jerk; but he still 
deserves credit for accomplished great things.


Both my wife and I acknowledge that the Tesla vehicles are technically 
excellent (which is not always the same as reliable), but she is "voting 
with her pocketbook" to not support the company/CEO on ideological grounds.


Some of that is she detests Elon Musk personally, and some of that is 
using his past behavior as a gauge of how the company may (or may not) 
support out of warranty owners in the future.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla accepting CCS

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 12/17/22 11:21, Willie McKemie via EV wrote:

Yes, hate for Musk seems to dominate. Here and elsewhere. Despite his
obvious skills and MANY successes. I am confused.


I think it's partially because he appears to be an asshole who creates a 
toxic work environment.


I respect the technical successes SpaceX / Tesla have achieved, but I 
certainly wouldn't want to be working at Twitter right now.  A smart 
(female) computer scientist I advised did an internship at SpaceX and 
also cited culture issues there.


My wife is one of those who refuse to consider a Tesla vehicle based 
upon his (miss) behavior.


Jay

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Re: [EVDL] Goodbye old friend.

[Jay Summet via EV]

After something like 7 or 9 price rises in the last year, Teslas are
massively overpriced.  Tesla now makes the highest profit margin of any US
automaker.  Interesting way to "change the world," eh?


My understanding is that they make the highest number of EV's of all the 
manufactures (in the US and Europe anywaysbut I believe they may 
also be giving Chinese manufacturers a run for their money...).


So if the demand is there...why fault them for profiting from their 
groundbreaking work?  (I drive a Leaf...because it was a lot cheaper)


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf. 80% charge setting.

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 11/23/22 00:08, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

  We have two Leafs..The 2013 will charge to 80%. The newer 2016 does not have 
the setting. Can it be added somehow? Lawrence Rhodes


Short answer: No.

Long Answer:   3 options

1. The only way to get similar effect (keeping the car below 80% SOC 
most of the time using only the inbuilt features is to set up the 
charging timer to charge your vehicle right before you leave. This only 
works well if you have a regular departure time each day (e.g. for a 
static work schedule).  Then, when you plug in the car, it will not 
charge until a few hours before your scheduled departure time, aiming to 
reach 100% about 30 minutes before you depart.  This means that the time 
the battery sits at 100% is minimized.  [If you are clever, you can lie 
about your departure time and time things so that it is reaching 80% 
about the time you actually leave...]


The downside is that your vehicle is not "ready to go" if you need to 
leave for an unplanned trip before your regularly schedule departure 
time, and if you want to charge any other time you have to remember to 
disable the charging timer so that it will actually charge when you plug in.


So this can be made to work if you have a regular schedule, but it can 
also be annoying.




2. You can "mimic" the "charge only to 80%" feature by using a Smart / 
connected EVSE that has a charge limiter built in.  For example, I have 
a JuiceBox, and when I plug in my 2015 leaf, I use the phone app to set 
the "plugged in percentage" and "stop percentage" (which I just leave at 
80%) and it estimates the amount of power needed and will shut off 
charging after that amount is used.


3. There is also a 3rd party add-on box you can install called Open 
Vehicle Monitoring System (hardware device) that would allow you to set 
a charge % limited and also do things like pre-heat in the winter 
remotely, and has a lot of other logging features but it costs $260

https://www.openvehicles.com/


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] leaf 2013 battery

[Jay Summet via EV]

My understanding is that early 2013's had the original cell chemistry 
battery from 2011-2012late 2013's had the new cell chemistry used in 
2014 onwards.  So buying a 2014+ is the easy way to guarantee getting a 
"lizard" battery without looking up the exact date of manufacture, etc


The VIN can give you a clue, but the only sure way to confirm is to open 
the battery up and see if the modules inside look like Gen1 modules or not.


This image shows the difference:
https://evbatterycenter.com/HAC4/images/2012-2013.jpg

Jay



On 11/21/22 20:17, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
  


As far as I know the 2013 has the lizard battery.  Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery replacement ?

[Jay Summet via EV]

I've heard only good things about the 40kwh batteries.

The 30 kwh batteries may degrade faster than the 24kwh (lizard) packs 
(but they have more capacity to start with, so it may be a wash overall?)


Jay

On 11/17/22 22:59, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
So, should I stick to the "lizard" battery, which apparently was 24kWh 
and supplied with the 2015-16 models, or any battery 2015+ ? If I keep 
the leaf, I want to incur minimal expense because I do want to replace 
it with something better.


I could buy a Bolt, but it's not really the car I want, either. I need 
to haul materials sometimes and also need better ground clearance. I'm 
looking at the WV Buzz but there still isn't enough info about the 
upcoming US model. Other stuff will come on the market in the next few 
years, too. So, I'm leaning to hanging on to the leaf for a 2-3 more years.


The leaf is adequate in summer (typ 60-80F) but is really limited now, 
with temps in the 30-40F range this time of year. Last year, I got only 
20 mile range during our cold snap, between 20-30F daytime.


Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "Ed Blackmond via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Ed Blackmond" 
Sent: 17-Nov-22 19:47:25
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery replacement ?

If you can afford it, I would recommend getting  a Bolt. A new one is 
still less than 30K and as far as battery wear is concerned, they are 
all new now.  GM replaced all the battery packs.


Then sell your Leaf to someone who will use it to replace an ICE 
commuter vehicle and upgrade the battery pack. This will put two EVs 
on the road instead of one.  You can even provide them with all the 
info you have found on replacing the pack.


Ed

 On Nov 17, 2022, at 7:21 PM, Jay Summet via EV  
wrote:


 I have a 2015 leaf, 60k miles, 11 capacity bars (but likely to drop 
to 10 soon).  I drive it relatively economically and get 4-4.8 miles 
per kwh for a real world range of 80-90 miles still at 35-45mph 
speeds. (less on freeways of course)


 I'm in Florida, and almost never see freezing temperatures. (Or 
temps above 100 like in Arizona) So not quite as temperate as 
parts of the pacific northwest, but not horribly bad for battery 
longevity.


 I think if you got a 2015+ replacement battery with 11 bars it would 
probably give your Leaf quite a bit more life.


 Jay


 On 11/17/22 18:41, George Tyler via EV wrote:
 I also have a 2013, original battery was 10 bars when I bought it 
in 2019,
 done 25K km since then, battery dropped to 7 bars this year. I 
found another
 2013 battery with 10 bars, had dome more kms than mine. So far it's 
still at
 10 bars. Here in NZ 2013 is the worst for battery degradation, 
almost every
 leaf for sale cheap is 2013, but some are still at 11 bars. I don't 
know how

 to tell if it's a lizard though.
 -Original Message-
 From: EV On Behalf Of Ken Olum via EV
 Sent: Friday, 18 November 2022 4:47 am
 To: ev@lists.evdl.org
 Cc: Ken Olum 
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery replacement ?
    From: "Peri Hartman" 
    Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 02:12:45 +
    How do the "lizard" batteries perform in cold weather?
 I haven't paid careful attention to ours, but there was certainly 
not some

 huge problem in the cold.
    Regardless of range, you're saying the lizard battery won't 
degrade as

    quickly ?
 Yes.  At 95K miles or so, I think our original 2013 battery was 
down to

 7 (maybe 6) bars of battery health out of 12.  We replaced it with a
 2015 battery which had 11 bars even though it had 85K miles or so.  
7000

 miles later, it is still at 11.
    My experience with the OEM battery is roughly 50% range at 25F 
versus

    70F.
 This is pretty terrible.  When we had cars with lead-acid batteries 
we saw
 this level of temperature sensitivity, but it shouldn't be so much 
with
 lithium.  Was it this bad originally or only after your battery got 
old?  Is

 it often 25F in Seattle?
    If I buy a used lizard that has, say 60 mile range at 70F, what 
can I

    expect at 25F ?
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery replacement ?

[Jay Summet via EV]

I have a 2015 leaf, 60k miles, 11 capacity bars (but likely to drop to 
10 soon).  I drive it relatively economically and get 4-4.8 miles per 
kwh for a real world range of 80-90 miles still at 35-45mph speeds. 
(less on freeways of course)


I'm in Florida, and almost never see freezing temperatures. (Or temps 
above 100 like in Arizona) So not quite as temperate as parts of the 
pacific northwest, but not horribly bad for battery longevity.


I think if you got a 2015+ replacement battery with 11 bars it would 
probably give your Leaf quite a bit more life.


Jay

On 11/17/22 18:41, George Tyler via EV wrote:

I also have a 2013, original battery was 10 bars when I bought it in 2019,
done 25K km since then, battery dropped to 7 bars this year. I found another
2013 battery with 10 bars, had dome more kms than mine. So far it's still at
10 bars. Here in NZ 2013 is the worst for battery degradation, almost every
leaf for sale cheap is 2013, but some are still at 11 bars. I don't know how
to tell if it's a lizard though.

-Original Message-
From: EV On Behalf Of Ken Olum via EV
Sent: Friday, 18 November 2022 4:47 am
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Ken Olum 
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery replacement ?

From: "Peri Hartman" 
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 02:12:45 +

How do the "lizard" batteries perform in cold weather?

I haven't paid careful attention to ours, but there was certainly not some
huge problem in the cold.

Regardless of range, you're saying the lizard battery won't degrade as
quickly ?

Yes.  At 95K miles or so, I think our original 2013 battery was down to
7 (maybe 6) bars of battery health out of 12.  We replaced it with a
2015 battery which had 11 bars even though it had 85K miles or so.  7000
miles later, it is still at 11.

My experience with the OEM battery is roughly 50% range at 25F versus
70F.

This is pretty terrible.  When we had cars with lead-acid batteries we saw
this level of temperature sensitivity, but it shouldn't be so much with
lithium.  Was it this bad originally or only after your battery got old?  Is
it often 25F in Seattle?

If I buy a used lizard that has, say 60 mile range at 70F, what can I
expect at 25F ?


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Re: [EVDL] Leaf battery replacement ?

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 11/12/22 12:38, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
Regardless, that's

a huge spread from, say, $5k, to replace a leaf battery.



My estimate would be 4-7k for a salvage 30 kwh pack + 2-3k labor, so I 
think your 5k hope is a bit low.


Shifting a 30kwh to a 2011 requires special adapter cables as well as 
the man in the middle can adapter, so it's slightly more involved than 
putting it into a 2013+ model, but still not an overly complicated 
endeavor.


In addition to EV rides, you may also consider the Canadian option:
Precision Auto Service Ltd
22575 Fraser Hwy # 101, Langley, British Columbia V2Z2T5, Canada
Electric Vehicle EV Service and Repair, Ask for Scott Waddle

 (found here: https://nissanleafbatteryreplacement.com/ )



Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Maxwell Vehicles All-Electric Vanacea camper van

[Jay Summet via EV]

 Thanks for quoting a Vanacea with us! Quoted options were received as:

Quote Type: Chassis
Van Size:   159 Extended
Range Configuraton: Extended
Solar Configuration:Solar
HVAC Configuration: Heat Pump

Estimated Price:$143,000

Jay

On 10/30/22 23:54, (-Phil-) wrote:

There is a link on the bottom of the page for a quote.

On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 7:46 PM Jay Summet via EV <mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org>> wrote:


Nicehow much for a regular range, extended wheelbase
Chassis (no build out) with Solar and heat pump?

Jay

On 10/30/22 21:32, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:
 > https://maxwellvehicles.com/campers.html
<https://maxwellvehicles.com/campers.html>
 >
 > We are going to be at SEMA this week in Vegas if anyone wants to
come have
 > a look.
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Re: [EVDL] Maxwell Vehicles All-Electric Vanacea camper van

[Jay Summet via EV]

Nicehow much for a regular range, extended wheelbase
Chassis (no build out) with Solar and heat pump?

Jay

On 10/30/22 21:32, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:

https://maxwellvehicles.com/campers.html

We are going to be at SEMA this week in Vegas if anyone wants to come have
a look.
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Re: [EVDL] Where to post EV parts for sale?

[Jay Summet via EV]

I'd also recommend Ebay for anything small enough to ship. (And perhaps 
marked as local pickup only for the larger items?)


Jay

On 10/2/22 04:04, Andrew Letton via EV wrote:

Hi EV Friends,
I haven't been active on the list in over a decade, but have been subscribed 
since...as long as I can remember...probably 20+ years.
8 years ago we moved to New Zealand then Australia and now we're back in CA, 
clearing out our house here to sell. In storage here, I have a number of EV 
parts for the car I never built, and it's time to sell them. (A couple of ADC 
motors, a new Russco charger, a Curtis controller or two, big DC circuit 
breakers, and other smaller bits. I'll follow with a detailed for sale list in 
the next few days.)
I was dismayed to read that the EV Tradin Post was shut down a few years ago (thanks for 
your years of providing the site, Aaron!), so aside from a "For Sale" posting 
here and I suppose Craigslist, I'm wondering where I might list parts for sale in the SF 
Bay Area these days?
Thanks!
Andrew Letton
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[EVDL] Anybody need a 120 -> 24v DC2DC? Meanwell SD-500H-24

[Jay Summet via EV]

Cleaning up the garage and I found a Meanwell SD-500H-24 power supply. 
I was originally using it to recharge my 24v well pump batteries off of 
my 120v truck pack. (But I've sold the truck)


Input: DC 72-144v
Output: DC 24v At 21 amps (500 watts).  (Voltage slightly adjustable via 
a pot)


Anybody have a use for it before I list it on Ebay?

I'll ship it to anywhere in the US for $50.

Jay

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Re: [EVDL] 120VAC from my truck?

[Jay Summet via EV]

Does your truck have a DC2DC converter and a larger 12v accessory battery?

Seems like you could easily find a 1500 watt 12v inverter to run off of 
your 12v accessory battery. Depending upon your duty cycle you may not 
even need to upgrade the DC2DC converter...


Jay

On 8/11/22 16:28, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:

On Thu Aug 11 12:22:57 PDT 2022 ev@lists.evdl.org said:

On 7/31/22 12:48, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:

One thing I'd really like to have is about 2000W of 120VAC available
from my F250 conversion, with a pack that will be 300 to 400vdc.
Anyone know of an inverter that will do that?  AND cost less than a
new car?


John, I have an Aerovironment SPC-2000 solar inverter that might work
for you. It accepts a 150-600vdc input, and outputs up to 1KW
single-phase or 2KW 3-phase at 115, 208, or 230vac, 30-69 Hz. Contact me
off-list if that might work for you.


While that sounds pretty close to what I need, the piece of eqiupment I want to 
run needs 1300W at 120VAC.
I'm going to do an experiment with a big 12V power supply and a standard 
12v-120v inverter first.

--

Bobcats and Cougars, oh my!  http://john.casadelgato.com/Pets
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Re: [EVDL] 120VAC from my truck?

[Jay Summet via EV]

Many solar inverters will accept DC input from a string of PV panels in 
that 300-400 vdc range and output 2k or more AC, but the tricky bit is 
that batteries don't act exactly like PV panels.


I know Ben Nelson has used a solar inverter wired up to an iMev's 
battery pack via the DC fast charging port to power his garage.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0acVkoMpxFc


Jay

On 7/31/22 12:48, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:

One thing I'd really like to have is about 2000W of 120VAC available from my 
F250 conversion, with a pack that will be 300 to 400vdc.
Anyone know of an inverter that will do that?  AND cost less than a new car?

--
Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! 
http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250
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Re: [EVDL] This is why many (most?) EVs have governed top speed

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 7/1/22 06:03, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:

On 30 Jun 2022 at 7:23, Jay Summet via EV wrote:


Also why you shouldn't use DOT 3 brake fluid for racing... He had
upgraded most of the stock brake system (rotors, calipers, etc) but
left/re-used the stock brake fluid.  Fluid boiled, gas in lines
reduced/eliminated proper operation.


Interesting.  It sounds as if hd tried to upgrade the brakes, but missed a
crucial modification. What kind of brake fluid should he have used?


Something with a higher wet and dry boiling point, such as RF1.  [Which 
does qualify for on street applications...it just has a higher boiling 
point when compared to stock DOT3 fluid...]





It may be a provocative question, but does it make sense for Tesla to build
a car that can reach 170+mph, but not fit it with racing-class brakes at the
factory?  Are the stock brakes adequate for that kind of speed on the road?


Well, you do have to put it into Track Mode to achieve those speeds, so 
I guess the question isshould they include Track Mode in the software?




Do ICE muscle car manufacturers such as Lambourghini, Aston-Martin, McLaren,
and Ferrari also fit street-performance brakes to their 190mph beasts?


I'm not familiar with their braking systems,  but given their price 
points and lack of the regen option, I'd suspect they may have better 
stock brakes.


Jay

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Re: [EVDL] This is why many (most?) EVs have governed top speed

[Jay Summet via EV]

Also why you shouldn't use DOT 3 brake fluid for racing... He had 
upgraded most of the stock brake system (rotors, calipers, etc) but 
left/re-used the stock brake fluid.  Fluid boiled, gas in lines 
reduced/eliminated proper operation.


Jay

On 6/29/22 21:36, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp3LdgmZpD0

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
  Consultant: someone who borrows your watch, tells you what
  time it is, pockets the watch, and sends you a bill for it.
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: DC plans (accidental) EV tax

[Jay Summet via EV]

As an investor in Aptera (which is making lightweight aerodynamic EV's) 
I have no problem taxing heavy vehicles, regardless of their mode of 
propulsion.


Heavy vehicles cause more wear on the road, are less efficient than 
light vehicles, and make the roads less safe for pedestrians, 
motorcyclists, and compact car drivers (in collisions).


At least this tax is fuel type agnostic, unlike some of the EV specific 
license taxes that other states have implemented.



Jay

On 6/13/22 12:44, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:

Washington DC plans to increase yearly vehicle license fees from $72 to $175
for vehicles over 3500lb.  Owners of vehicles with weight over 5000lb would
get hit with $250, and over 6000lb, $500.

The proposal is aimed at discouraging purchase of big SUVs and pickups, and
compelling their owners to pay for the heavy vehicles' greater social costs
(traffic injuries and deaths, road degredation).

They seem to have forgotten that EV batteries add weight.  This will raise
license fees on almost all production EVs.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-26/a-new-way-to-curb-the-
rise-of-oversized-pickups-and-suvs

Shortcut: https://v.gd/Umr8Jm

Mini Cooper SE Electric 3144lb - $72
Nissan Leaf 3538lb - $175
Tesla 3 SR Plus 3582lb - $175
Chevrolet Bolt 3589lb - $175
Hyundai Kona Electric 3715lb - $175
Kia Niro EV 3854lb - $175
Kia EV6 4023lb - $175
Ford Mustang Mach E 4394lb - $175
VW ID4 4559lb - $175
Tesla S LR 4561lb - $175
Tesla X LR 5185lb - $250
Ford F150 Lightning 6015lb - $500
GMC Hummer EV 9046lb - $500



David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

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Re: [EVDL] Gmail warning (list business)

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 5/25/22 11:42, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:


I've had a pretty decent experience with Dreamhost.  There are probably
thousands of others.  Some even claim to run on renewable energy.



I second the recommendation for DreamHost...I've been hosting my various 
websites and email with them for almost 20 years now and the $10 a month 
is well worth it.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 5/19/22 10:44, jamie via EV wrote:

But to claim the LEAF was immediately "abandoned" as a product would be 
a stretch as Nissan has added features, changed the battery tech and 
increased the range over successive model years.


"Idiosyncrasies and workarounds" is a subjective judgement that could be 
leveled at any car I've ever driven.


Having disassembled a 2013 leaf (selling the parts off after I harvested 
the battery modules for my S-10 conversion), and owning/driving a 2015 
Leaf, I've been quite happy with the Leaf.


Yes, there are a few things that could be improved, but it has been rock 
solid reliable for me. [I can't comment on the 2nd gen leafyet...but 
when buying a new electric vehicle, I will definitely be considering the 
2nd Gen leaf Plus.]


Jay


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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 5/19/22 01:00, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
There's no way (at least 
that I'm aware of) to override [the charge timer]. It's plain idiotic.




On my 2015 leaf, there is a dash button "Charge Timer Off" (it's an icon 
with a sorta clock and plug with the word "Off"). If you want to charge 
manually, you plug in the car, and THEN push that button, and it will 
charge normally that one time.


It is annoying in that you can't press it when getting out of the 
car...you have to go around to the front, plug in (the three top of dash 
lights will light up in a "follow" pattern one by one to indicate that 
the chaging timer is active) and then you have to open the driver door 
again to push the button, at which point you'll hear the clicks of the 
battery contactors engaging and the charging lights will go into their 
normally "charging in progress" mode.



Jay
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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Jay Summet via EV]

If you leave every morning at the same time, the in-car / dash based 
"climate timer" makes it easy to have your vehicle turn on the HVAC 
system just before (for example) 8am. (at whatever settings you left it 
when you turned off the car, so you need to be sure to set it right 
before you leave...)


It does have an "on/off" by day, so you can tell it to not turn on for 
Sat/Sun (but can not set a different time for different days)


Jay



On 5/19/22 00:31, Otmar Lists Account via EV wrote:

Preconditioning, especially while charging is a fantastic benefit.

Sadly the Nissan Connect for Leaf was on 2G cellular, and there was an update 
to 3G, but now that is going away as well and there seems to be no 4G LTE 
upgrade.

Alternatively, people are using the OVMS to provide those functions and more 
with an app.

https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/components/vehicle_nissanleaf/docs/index.html 


-Otmar


On May 18, 2022, at 7:18 PM, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:

The Leaf has an app that runs on your cellphone that can allow it to pre-heat 
or pre-cool the car interior while it is plugged in. You can also set a time to 
do this manually from the dash. Makes a HUGE difference in range if you can use 
this feature.

Easier than defeating the heater somehow. You also _really_ need the heater 
and/or air conditioning to defog the windshield. The blower alone just doesn't 
do it.

Bill D.

On 5/19/2022 8:48 AM, redscooter via EV wrote:

  on youtube there some  switch to modify so the heat does  not come on just 
the fan only .
My 2011 needs all the power it can. any exp with this ?
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf 12 upgrade to 60kw

[Jay Summet via EV]

I used pry-bars and screwdrivers & putty knifes on a 2013 leaf battery 
that was glued together. Now that I know what is inside (and how to not 
hit it), I'd use an air chisel.


Jay

On 4/11/22 21:01, (-Phil-) via EV wrote:

FYI:  I have opened the 60kWh LEAF packs, it can be done with a vibrating
multitool blade.   Much easier than a Tesla pack!


(Picture link: http://ingineerix.com/pic/?leaf60kwh )


On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 5:49 PM EV List Lackey via EV 
wrote:


On 11 Apr 2022 at 17:17, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:


since the [Leaf battery] enclosure can't be opened (glued shut) ...


Does that mean that the newer Leaf batteries can't be field-serviced, but
must be exchanged for complete new or rebuilt batteries?

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

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  attention of those in authority," and finishes with "May the
  gods give you everything you ask for."  I have no idea about
  its authenticity.

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Re: [EVDL] leaf 12 upgrade to 60kw

[Jay Summet via EV]

Sounds like your Leaf has a 6.6 kw charger (27.5 amps at 240 volts, or 
30amps at 220v) as opposed to the slower 3.3 kW charger.


62kwh / 6.6kh = 9.3 hours (If you are able to charge at the full rate 
the whole time, typically it starts to taper off around 85-90% charged.)


[Of course, the entire 62 kWh is not completely available to the 
user...they keep buffers at both the top and bottom.]


Jay



On 4/10/22 12:50, Bob Bath via EV wrote:

I charge a 2013 LEAF 62 kWh upgrade with a J1772. Depleted, it’s about 5 hrs. 
(32A, 220V), FWIW.

Sincerely,
Bob Bath
541.761.0838


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Re: [EVDL] leaf 12 upgrade to 60kw

[Jay Summet via EV]

It would take longer (62kw / 3.3 = 18.7 hours).

It is always possible that the on-board charger has a max charging time 
limit timeout that is reached before then (if it was set to expect to 
never charge more than 24 kwh) but I haven't heard anything about that.


The DC fast charger should charge at the same rate as before (but will 
also take 3x longer to charge if you triple the battery capacity.)


Swapping a 62kwh battery into a car that used to have a 24 kWh pack has 
been done, but not by a lot of people, so there is a posibility of 
something in the vehicle not expecting to have to charge for as long as 
it would take, but I suspect I would have heard about that by now.


Jay

On 4/9/22 15:24, redscooter via EV wrote:
  I have a 2012 leaf with  24 kw and want to upgrade to 60kw battery  I 
have the slower j7717 3kw charger. some say there ncharging problems 
wiht the 60 kw , any one know hwy I do have the level 3 port .

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Re: [EVDL] kWh versus charging temperature

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 4/5/22 22:06, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
So, even the 2011 has a modest heater, then ? I believe you. However, 
how do you explain the vast difference between range (kWh during 
charging) in winter 20F versus comfortable weather 70F ?




The heater doesn't heat the battery to 70F, it is just enough to keep 
the cells from going below freezing.   Also, you probably run the cabin 
air heater more in the winter.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Regen with mid-drive on electric pedal bicycles

[Jay Summet via EV]

It's called a fixed gear bike.  Move the gearing/transmission to the 
hub/motor before the chain and it would work (a.k.a. a motorcycle...)


Fixed freewheels are easy, but I've never seen a variable locking one, 
nor a "locking" derailleur.



Jay

On 4/5/22 20:01, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

This could be possible with derailleur and freewheel locking. I wonder if this 
exists? Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] kWh versus charging temperature

[Jay Summet via EV]

I'm sure that if you kept your Leaf inside a warm garage anytime you 
were not driving it, it's cold weather range would be better than if you 
park it outside.  (However, it may not be as high as it's normal warm 
weather range, especially if you use the resistive cabin air heater.)


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] kWh versus charging temperature

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 4/4/22 00:54, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
I'm not sure about the newer models, but definitely no battery heater 
(or cooler) for the 2011 model.




2013 Leaf has  (four) resistance heaters inside the main battery case. 
They turn on if the temp gets below freezing.


No active cooling in any Leaf battery so far.

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Followup: Nissan Leaf 2013 Cold Brake (dropout) Recall

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 3/28/22 10:23, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
I've got another data point to add to these observations. I still have 
the original battery in my 2011 leaf. I'm thinking I'd better swap it 
out before I get stalled somewhere...


Anyway, one thing that might be different from others' experiences is I 
always park outside, so the tiny solar panel is exposed to some sunlight 
every day. I wonder if the solar charger is keeping the battery from 
getting a deeper discharge ?


Trickle charging the 12v battery was the (only) purpose of the small 
solar panel on the rear spoiler in the delux models


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Followup: Nissan Leaf 2013 Cold Brake (dropout) Recall

[Jay Summet via EV]

This is one of the reasons that Leaf's (at least that era...they may 
have made improvements on later models) chew through 12v accessory 
batteries.  They only rarely take them up to 14v for charging.  I don't 
know of a way to change any settings to resolve this.


An external battery tender or charger may help the batteries last 
longer, or AGM batteries may be a better match for the Leaf's 
charging/voltage profiles (my AGM has lasted 3 years, but so did the OEM 
battery...)


Jay

On 3/28/22 09:51, Mark Hanson via EV wrote:

Thanks Paul
I know it should be but I don’t know how to adjust the leaf dc dc converter. Do 
you ?
Best regards
Mark

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 28, 2022, at 8:00 AM, paul dove  wrote:

 The minimum charging voltage is 13.8 volts dc across the battery terminals, 
or at the output of the alternator. A single lead-acid cell starts to charge at 
anything over 2.25 volts. Since a 12 volt battery has six cells, any 12 volt 
lead-acid battery needs at least 13.8 volts to start to charge.


Sent from AT&T Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Sunday, March 27, 2022, 9:15 AM, mark hanson via EV  
wrote:

Hi Folks,



I checked the 12V aux voltage through the cigarette lighter socket with a
DVM and shows 13.0V during operation.  The low voltage storage codes over
time were caused by the vehicle sitting a long time and the ghost loads
dropping the battery voltage to 10V and had to recharge externally (also
sets low voltage codes when replacing the battery).I don't see *how* the
aux voltage operating at 13V has *any* effect on the brakes in *cold*
weather.  I'd love to see a technical explanation on this rather than "just
replace the good battery with a more expensive one".



Best regards,

Mark



From: mark hanson [mailto:markehans...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2022 10:08 PM
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
Subject: Nissan Leaf 2013 Cold Brake (dropout) Recall



Hi Folks,



After seeing this recall, 46.9K Leafs 2013-2016 and having my brakes drop
out in the cold (apparently regen appears to shut off when cold
intermittently), I took it to the wheeler-dealer:

https://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2016/0318/2013-2015-Nissan-Leaf-r
ecalled-for-braking-problem-46-000-vehicles-affected#:~:text=Nissan%20is%20r
ecalling%20more%20than,braking%20ability%20in%20cold%20weather.

&text=A%20Nissan%20Leaf%20electric%20car,(January%2012%2C%202016 ). I was
asked to report on the actual response (below)



The Roanoke VA Southern team Nissan dealer told me that the warranty expired
and had to charge me $250 for an hour of labor (I must be in the wrong
business) to read the software through the OBD-2 port and see if it had the
brake update.  I was told it had the latest update although I hadn't brought
it in before.  (In 2015 it was in for an air conditioner failure under
warranty.)  I was then told that the *12V Aux* battery is what was causing
the cold brake drop out *after* I printed out a photo of the red exclamation
point and temperature display at 25F *and* the recall notice, showed to
them.  (I guess they thought they would sell me a pricey battery).  I drove
it to Advance Auto and bought a new fancy Optima Yellow Top $330 battery to
replace the 2019 (Advance Auto battery I replaced still under warranty).
Since the present battery was still under warranty, they tested it and said
it was OK but gave me $189 store credit.



Dealer service dept response:

iPhone Message 3/8/22: "Hi This is Southern Team, we are calling because we
are looking over your vehicle.  Unfortunately what we are saying is you *do*
have the latest and greatest software installed to your vehicle regarding
the brakes and what we are noticing however is that your regular 12V battery
is registering 300 CCA to 397CCA and should be closer to 500CCA.  You also
have a bunch of low-voltage codes stored in the system from where we have
obviously plugged it in to perform a software update and see what software
version was installed last.  We think that the battery is what's causing the
light on the dash and resistance with your brakes - is actually related to
where your system doesn't have the appropriate amount of electrical current
running through it so they're recommending that you actually replace your
battery."



The printout after service reads in caps: "A CUSTOMER IS REQUESTING NEW
BRAKING SOFTWARE TO BE UPLOADED.  CUSTOMER BELIEVES THIS WILL CORRECT THE
CONCERN OF THE TRIANGLE LIGHT POPULATING AT TIMES WHEN BRAKING, FEELS LIKE
BRAKE BOOSTER ISN'T WORKING, ESPECIALLY WHEN BELOW FREEZING.  TAKES A LOT OF
EFFORT TO BRAKE --- UPLOAD SOFTWARE ONLY - 1.0  NBE INSPECTED VEHICLE AND
FOUND LATEST SOFTWARE FOR BRAKE SYSTEM ALREADY INSTALLED - 

Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf 2013 Cold Brake (dropout) Recall

[Jay Summet via EV]

Low 12 volt accessory batteries are VERY common on Leafs, and are 
commonly known to cause all kinds of weird problems in other areas of 
the vehicle.  (See the reddit.com/r/leaf forums for example)


My wife had an issue where she was driving in a parking garage and had 
the brakes "go weird" and all kinds of warning lights pop up, it was a 
bad 12v battery.


https://www.summet.com/blog/2019/05/03/nissan-leaf-12-volt-accessory-battery-replacement/


So this is a common issue with Leaf's and replacing the 12v battery 
commonly fixes similar issue for others.


The fact that they found low voltage error codes stored is only extra 
evidence for this.


When it happened to us, I paid extra for an AGM battery (which is 
supposed to work better with the Leaf's charging profile) and so far it 
has been working for us (3 years now).


Jay



On 3/23/22 22:07, mark hanson via EV wrote:

Hi Folks,

  


After seeing this recall, 46.9K Leafs 2013-2016 and having my brakes drop
out in the cold (apparently regen appears to shut off when cold
intermittently), I took it to the wheeler-dealer:

https://www.csmonitor.com/Business/In-Gear/2016/0318/2013-2015-Nissan-Leaf-r
ecalled-for-braking-problem-46-000-vehicles-affected#:~:text=Nissan%20is%20r
ecalling%20more%20than,braking%20ability%20in%20cold%20weather.

&text=A%20Nissan%20Leaf%20electric%20car,(January%2012%2C%202016 ). I was
asked to report on the actual response (below)

  


The Roanoke VA Southern team Nissan dealer told me that the warranty expired
and had to charge me $250 for an hour of labor (I must be in the wrong
business) to read the software through the OBD-2 port and see if it had the
brake update.  I was told it had the latest update although I hadn't brought
it in before.  (In 2015 it was in for an air conditioner failure under
warranty.)  I was then told that the *12V Aux* battery is what was causing
the cold brake drop out *after* I printed out a photo of the red exclamation
point and temperature display at 25F *and* the recall notice, showed to
them.  (I guess they thought they would sell me a pricey battery).  I drove
it to Advance Auto and bought a new fancy Optima Yellow Top $330 battery to
replace the 2019 (Advance Auto battery I replaced still under warranty).
Since the present battery was still under warranty, they tested it and said
it was OK but gave me $189 store credit.

  


Dealer service dept response:

iPhone Message 3/8/22: "Hi This is Southern Team, we are calling because we
are looking over your vehicle.  Unfortunately what we are saying is you *do*
have the latest and greatest software installed to your vehicle regarding
the brakes and what we are noticing however is that your regular 12V battery
is registering 300 CCA to 397CCA and should be closer to 500CCA.  You also
have a bunch of low-voltage codes stored in the system from where we have
obviously plugged it in to perform a software update and see what software
version was installed last.  We think that the battery is what's causing the
light on the dash and resistance with your brakes - is actually related to
where your system doesn't have the appropriate amount of electrical current
running through it so they're recommending that you actually replace your
battery."

  


The printout after service reads in caps: "A CUSTOMER IS REQUESTING NEW
BRAKING SOFTWARE TO BE UPLOADED.  CUSTOMER BELIEVES THIS WILL CORRECT THE
CONCERN OF THE TRIANGLE LIGHT POPULATING AT TIMES WHEN BRAKING, FEELS LIKE
BRAKE BOOSTER ISN'T WORKING, ESPECIALLY WHEN BELOW FREEZING.  TAKES A LOT OF
EFFORT TO BRAKE --- UPLOAD SOFTWARE ONLY - 1.0  NBE INSPECTED VEHICLE AND
FOUND LATEST SOFTWARE FOR BRAKE SYSTEM ALREADY INSTALLED - LOW VOLT CODES
STORED - REC REPLC 12V, 381 CPN $250

41859 1.00 CUSTOMER REQUEST WE PERFORM A SOFTWARE UPDATE TO THE BRAKING
SYSTEM FOUND ONLINE WHERE IT WOULD FIX THEIR CONCERN.  CHECK BRAKE PART
NUMBER AND ADVISE CUSTOMER THERE IS NO UPDATE AVAILABLE FOR THE BRAKING
SYSTEM - IT HAS ALREADY BEEN REPROGRAMMED ELSEWHERE.  DID FIND MULTIPLE LOW
VOLTAGE CODES STORED DUE TO WEAK 12V BATTERY.  THIS CAN CAUSE THE SAME
CONCERNS YOU HAVE - RECOMMEND BATTERY REPLACEMENT."

  


Question: has anyone heard of with this recall with the 12V battery causing
the braking regen to drop out on cold weather - or is this *junk science* ?

  

  


Have a renewable energy day,

  


Mark

  


Mark E. Hanson

184 Vista Lane

Fincastle, VA 24090

540-473-1248 phone & FAX, 540-816-0812 cell

REEVA: community service RE & EV project club

Website: www.REEVAdiy.org (See Project Gallery)

UL Certified PV Installer

My RE&EV Circuits: www.EVDL.org/lib/mh

REEVA Demo:   http://youtu.be/4kqWn2H-rA0

  
<

Re: [EVDL] leaf recall battery HV battery ground strap

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 3/9/22 20:07, Cor van de Water wrote:

Jay, understood.
What do you think happens to the paint under a bolt *with no washer*
that is torqued down so that you need a 3ft extension to get it loose
- and then torque it down again afterwards, while it is lifting the
battery during the torqueing... How much paint would you think is
still on that spot under the bolt head?


You know it's grounded, and I know it's grounded, but because it wasn't 
designed to be grounded, the lawyers can get the engineers to admit that 
it may not be grounded unless the grounding plates are attached


However, it's easier to sell a car without any active recalls

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] leaf recall battery HV battery ground strap

[Jay Summet via EV]

I generally agree with you, but I believe these particular straps are 
"grounded" intentionally ( no paint, etc.while all the other bolts 
are just coincidentally grounded.but may have paint that could 
potentially block the conduction.)


Since the repair is free to have done under the recall, it's better to 
do it than not, if only so that if/when you want to sell the car there 
is no outstanding recalls listed for it.


Jay

On 3/9/22 17:10, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

Waste of time.
I know, the 2 shitty sheet metal "arms" (12 cm pot steel with a hole
for a 10mm bolt on each end) are being replaced with concerns about
them rusting, but really - the entire *metal* battery enclosure is
bolted to the *frame* of the Leaf with 10 or 12 *huge* bolts under
high tension, which will connect the battery enclosure to the frame
with *way* more reliability than the two pityful straps at the front
edges of the battery. Often enough I have not even re-installed those
two scraps when I remounted a battery in a car.
But of course the lawyers will tell you otherwise and the
sales/service guys will happily parrot that.
Just my 2 Rubles oh oops, I mean Eurocents or pennies, you choose. I
hope the Ruble will be less worth than a penny soon. Not for the
residents but to disable the power of the leader.
Cor.

On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 1:07 PM redscooter via EV  wrote:


   My 2012 let be getting a HV free battery strap repair,  this may applie
to other years. it called a "battery bonding plate" .
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Re: [EVDL] 2013-2015 Nissan Leaf recalled for braking problem, 46, 000 vehicles affected

[Jay Summet via EV]

Check your VIN against the recall checker. If it shows up, you get the 
repair for free. If it doesn't show up, either the repair was already 
done, or your vehicle is not affected.


Jay

On 3/8/22 18:24, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

Mark,
That is absolute bollocks.
As far as I know: *Recalls* never time out, they are mandatory,
enforced by external entities, so it is grounds for a complaint
against the manufacturer.
I have similar experience - dealers often have no clue what they are
required to do, so they try to bluff you out of it. I had to go
through several rounds of that kind of noise before I received the
service that I *knew* that I was entitled to and finally when I kept
stubbornly refuting their crazy claims and steadily mentioning that I
was due my free replacement, that they finally relented but it took
several weeks and rounds before it was done and indeed, for free.
Since you already paid, you can take different steps, up to you how
nasty you want to be - either just "give me back my money" up to suing
them (after verifying that the recall is indeed without deadline as I
suspect).
Good luck.
Cor.

On Tue, Mar 8, 2022 at 12:55 PM Mark Hanson via EV  wrote:


Hi Folks
I just got back from Team Nissan dealer Roanoke VA and they said the Recall on 
my 2013 was too old to be included and did a $250 evaluation and said that 
since my vehicle sat for 3 months while on vacation , that it caused the 
problem due to low battery and not the software.  The service department 
claimed that I already had the latest brake software installed.  (Guess it was 
installed by aliens).  I’ll have to wait till next winter (with a new battery) 
and see if it occurs again.  Sounds like nonsense to me, has anyone heard that 
a low 12V auxiliary battery can cause brake problems in the winter?
https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1102850_2013-2015-nissan-leaf-recalled-for-braking-problem-46000-vehicles-affected
Best regards
Mark


Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf 2013 dim headlights at 14V

[Jay Summet via EV]

I haven't noticed that the headlights on my 2015 Leaf were too dim (I 
wouldn't call them super bright, but when you switch to high beams they 
certainly seem to be perfectly adequate), so perhaps they fixed this 
issue in later model years?


Jay

On 2/24/22 14:59, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:

On 24 Feb 2022 at 18:22, Roger Stockton via EV wrote:


An HTML attachment was scrubbed...


For those who don't have their list passwords, and don't want to go to the
trouble of fetching them, here's Roger's message, sprung from html jail:

The (2013) Leaf uses halogen bulbs, but runs the 12V system at too low of a
voltage to get good brightness from them. We had the ssme issue with our
2016, and changed to LED bulbs to resolve it (the LEDs will run at full
brightness at anything over 9V).

Hope this helps,

Roger.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
  A good question is never answered.  It is not a bolt to be
  tightened into place but a seed to be planted and to bear
  more seed toward the hope of greening the landscape of ideas.

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Re: [EVDL] 2013-2015 Nissan Leaf recalled for braking problem, 46, 000 vehicles affected

[Jay Summet via EV]

If your VIN isn't included in the recall, it probably didn't affect your 
specific Leaf.



https://www.nissanusa.com/recalls-vin.html


Jay

On 2/23/22 19:40, Mark Hanson via EV wrote:

Hi folks
My 2013 Nissan Leaf has this cold braking problem and I can’t figure out if the 
brake booster dropout when cold is software (cheap update) or hardware related 
(replace brake booster).  Is anyone familiar with this 46.9K vehicles recall?  
The Roanoke Va Peter’s creek rd Nissan dealer says I’d have to pay for this 
since it’s no longer a recall (about $1k). Sounds like BS to me.
https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1102850_2013-2015-nissan-leaf-recalled-for-braking-problem-46000-vehicles-affected
Best regards
Mark

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla Y Roanoke, VA to Florida Keys - self driving glitches/twitches

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 2/23/22 09:27, mark hanson via EV wrote:

. East on 820 I-75 2/17/22 10am to charger with 20% remaining NPR FM
dropped out, temperature stuck, display froze, then went*black*  as
autopilot dropped out.  Pulled over and self-reset.  Last time I had to
press both left and right gimbals and hold foot on brake peddle to reboot
the car, but this time it did it by itself.


This one sounds like a bigger issue than just Autopilot!

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] X-Bus

[Jay Summet via EV]

Looks like light vehicle class in the EU.

Jay

On 2/20/22 19:00, Michael Ross via EV wrote:

Very interesting.
For what countries is it to be homologated?

On Sun, Feb 20, 2022 at 2:27 PM paul dove via EV  wrote:


The electric XBUS is the cutest thing youll see today
https://electricbrands.de/en/myxbus/







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Re: [EVDL] wrecked leafs batery

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 2/15/22 16:11, Bill Woodcock via EV wrote:





Leaf packs are _not_ the ones you want.  You want Volt packs.  They have a nice 
liquid cooling system, break down and reassemble like Lego, and aren’t going to 
be fried.

On the other hand, volt packs require futzy liquid cooling, and can't be 
easily re-assembled into any serial/parallel organization you want for a 
specific volt/amp requirement


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] wrecked leafs batery

[Jay Summet via EV]

I purchased a leaf where the drivers airbag had gone off.  When I 
received it, I was able to get it to power up by charging the 12v 
battery. I attached LeafSpy via an OBDII dongle and cleared as many 
DTC's as I could, at which point it would "run" and "drive".


I believe if you remove the battery and then re-install it into another 
leaf the prior accident status won't be an issue as long as there is no 
physical issue with the pack.


You WILL need to "pair" the battery with the car to get out of turtle 
mode - LeafSpy Pro Beta can do this for a straight battery 
replacement...if you are trying to do an upgrade you may need a CAN 
bridge plus potentially some wire adapters depending upon the upgrade 
path (24kwh -> 30 or 40 kwh, or 2011/2012 up to a 2013+ battery).


Jay

On 2/15/22 13:36, redscooter via EV wrote:

   I'm thinking getting leafs from salvage yards, some pics show dash
working some and others show the front is so beat up thast the 12 volt
battery is probally disconnected. BUT is there any way that the HV pack
could be drained to death ? and be worthless?  theres 2018's  have only
10
k miles so they shouild be good for a donor pack .. are there pack relays
powered down in case of an acident, like when air bags go off ?
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Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging stations across the US

[Jay Summet via EV]

I got that from the link in my email.
Jay

On 2/13/22 10:11, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
Jay, do you have a reference for the 5.9 t ? I'd like to have that so I 
can pop this number on people moaning about subsidies for EVs and clean 
energy, etc.


Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "Jay Summet via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Jay Summet" 
Sent: 13-Feb-22 05:01:18
Subject: Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging stations across the US




On 2/11/22 17:22, Willie via EV wrote:


On 2/11/22 5:04 PM, nathan christiansn via EV wrote:

The only problem that I see with this is that the government is making
people who do not support ev’s pay for ev charging.



A government that is 28 trillion dollars in debt should not be spending
billions of dollars that it does not hav


I agree with the idea of limited government, but they should also stop 
subsidizing the oil industry (to the tune of 5.9 TRILLION, each year).


https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trillion-in-subsidies-in-2020-report-finds 



7.5 billion over a few years to build out charging infrastructure and 
jump start EV adoption is nothing compared to that.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] $7.5bn for ev charging stations across the US

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 2/11/22 17:22, Willie via EV wrote:


On 2/11/22 5:04 PM, nathan christiansn via EV wrote:

The only problem that I see with this is that the government is making
people who do not support ev’s pay for ev charging. 



A government that is 28 trillion dollars in debt should not be spending
billions of dollars that it does not hav


I agree with the idea of limited government, but they should also stop 
subsidizing the oil industry (to the tune of 5.9 TRILLION, each year).


https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trillion-in-subsidies-in-2020-report-finds

7.5 billion over a few years to build out charging infrastructure and 
jump start EV adoption is nothing compared to that.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] OT: US traffic controls (was: tesla's sneaky rolling stops)

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 2/2/22 06:06, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:



One thing that I think helps traffic flow through them is that French
drivers customarily (though not universally) turn on their left turn signals
when entering a roundabout, and switch to right turn signals just before
exiting.  If traffic is heavy and you're trying to enter, that flashing
light is your right foot's cue.


Roundabouts have much better traffic flow (and lower accidents!) than 
intersections.  [even here in the US where drivers don't really 
understand them...]


Check out the "Safety benefits" section here for studies in the US
https://www.iihs.org/topics/roundabouts

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] tesla's sneaky rolling stops

[Jay Summet via EV]

Waymo also allows programs their vehicles to do an "alternating cross" 
4-way stop pattern which is commonly used in practice, but not 
technically legal.


 (Where pairs of vehicles will cross a 4 way stop in perpendicular 
directions, regardless of the exact order of arrival).  [As well as 
nosing into the intersection to signal intent)


So a lot of self driving vehicles have to have "commonly used, but 
illegal" behavior as an option.


But yes, having an explicit checkbox "let my car roll stop signs" seems 
like a legally questionable engineering choice.


Jay

On 2/1/22 11:08, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

Tesla recall: ‘Full Self-Driving’ software runs stop signs
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/tesla-recall-full-self-driving-software-runs-stop-signs/ 



Tesla is recalling nearly 54,000 cars and SUVs because their “Full 
Self-Driving” software lets them roll through stop signs without coming 
to a complete halt.

...
The recall shows that Tesla programmed its vehicles to violate the law 
in most states, where police will ticket drivers for disregarding stop 
signs. A spokesman for the Governors Highway Safety Association, which 
represents state highway safety offices, said he is not aware of any 
states that allow rolling stops.

...
The “rolling stop” feature let the Teslas go through all-way stop signs 
as long as the owner enabled the function. The vehicles have to be 
traveling below 5.6 mph while approaching the intersection, and no 
“relevant” moving cars, pedestrians or bicyclists can be detected 
nearby. All roads leading to the intersection had to have speed limits 
of 30 mph or less, the documents said. The Teslas would then be allowed 
to go through the intersection at 0.1 mph to 5.6 mph without coming to a 
complete stop.

...

Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

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Re: [EVDL] leaf 2012 kw conversion to 40kw diy

[Jay Summet via EV]

My understanding is that to put a 40kw battery into a 2012 leaf you also 
need a wiring harness adapter, as the ports are slightly different (on 
the control signals, plus the PTC heater).


Jay

On 1/22/22 15:02, redscooter via EV wrote:

  sounds like mechaiclly they will  swap does there need to be a specail
interface so the gom and soc read properly ?

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Re: [EVDL] 40kw vs 40kWhr

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 11/4/21 17:23, Bill Dube via EV wrote:
Unlike an ICE, a more powerful electric drivetrain uses _less_ energy 
under normal driving than a marginal HP drivetrain.


A large inverter and motor run more efficiently at low power because 
they have larger conductors and less internal resistance than a smaller 
inverter and motor. Driven side by side, a very powerful EV will be far 
more energy efficient (Watts per mile) than a marginally powered EV. 


Up to the point where the weight from a larger battery, heavier 
wires/cases and structures, etc increase rolling resistanceso don't 
go overboard...


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] grabby breakes 2012

[Jay Summet via EV]

Normally I'd say rust on the rotors, which causes a grabby break feel at 
low speeds, but if they look smooth that's probably not it.


It could also be a degraded battery, I believe that regen is limited or 
cuts out after your battery degrades past a certain level, so that may 
give a grabby feel.


Jay

On 11/2/21 16:38, redscooter via EV wrote:

  any one know why this is happening ?   60k miles. break pads very smooth
.
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Re: [EVDL] Geomagnetic Storm Watch

[Jay Summet via EV]

Unless it's a Carringoton level event, it will mostly affect satellite 
and radio communications only (and not the power grid).


So unless your EVSE relies upon a radio to work, charging EV's should 
not be affected.


Jay

On 10/29/21 15:35, Peter Eckhoff via EV wrote:

At Space Weather, http://www.spaceweather.com, there is a report of a
CME heading toward earth on the day before Halloween.  While not super
strong at G2/G3, it does raise the question of what effect this might
have on charging an EV during such events.  Has anyone here read or
studied what impacts a CME might have on an EV and in what situations?
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Re: [EVDL] New subject: Cheap Level 2 EVSE

[Jay Summet via EV]

I have a 24 amp 240v "split volt" that plugs into a Nema 14-30 outlet. I 
have the outlet inside an RV style charging box that has a lockable 
closable cover. So I use a combo padlock to lock the cover closed with 
the plug inside and also pass the cord through the padlock.


(the switchvolt unit has a "nail head" hole on the back that goes over a 
screw in the wall, so it's sort of wall mountedbut you can lift it 
off if you know how it's mounted...)


It's not quite the same as screwed to a concrete wall with security 
screws, but if somebody cuts the cord they will have to deal with 240 
volts... and an EVSE that is missing a plug.


Jay


On 10/25/21 3:41 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

But that is still a charge cord.
I want a non-stealable wall mount cheap L2 charger box
for a public space not one's home garage...
and they have disappeared.
bob

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 6:34 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV
 wrote:


https://www.amazon.com/Charger-Portable-Electric-Charging-Universal/dp/B096GBJW14
 Here is a $139 level 2 EVSE of course it's only 16amps so limited to 3 or 4kw. 
Lawrence Rhodes

I buy the $299 L2 charge cords that will do both L1 and L2.
But what has disappeared is the $300 wall mounted L2.
I want to donate an L2 to an organization, but the less
expensive ones have disappeared.

Bob
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Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not so free press.

[Jay Summet via EV]

Level 1 chargers typically plug into a standard 120v  15A outlet, and 
require no installation. They typically cost between $180-$300.


The numbers below are more accurate for a 240v volt hard wired level 2 
charger, which can cost in the $300-$700 range, and installation of a 
new circuit/outlet/hardwiring can be between $400-$1,700 depending upon 
size, distance from the existing panel, etc...


Jay

On 10/23/21 8:22 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:

I know nothing about Level 1 charger costs, so did a quick Google, found this:

https://blog.carvana.com/2021/07/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-an-ev-charger/

“ For example, the Level 1 charger costs between $300 to $600 before labor, 
which stands at about $1,000 to $1,700.”

Is this wrong?

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone


On Oct 23, 2021, at 4:10 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  wrote:

She lost me on $600 level 1 charger(EVSE) Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] HV DC input -to- 120VDC output inverter???

[Jay Summet via EV]

It's called the SPS (Secure Power Supply) outlet from a SMA SunnyBoy 
inverter.


https://www.thesolarnerd.com/blog/sma-sunnyboy-inverters/

Cost is around $1500-$2000 on ebay depending on the size you want, plus 
they work as a grid tie solar inverter when your power is on.



https://files.sma.de/downloads/SBxx-US-DS-en-39.pdf

600v max DC voltage, 155-480V DC optimal.

Jay

On 10/15/21 4:57 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

Mark,


I used to design switching power supplies...


Have you considered filling the strong market need for a 200-500 VDC input
to 120 VAC output 2 kW inverter that can be used on Solar systems to
charge any EV (via its own EVSE) independent of the grid.  There is a
CRYING need for this high-demand inverter.

Or it can be used to power one's house from one's EV when the grid
goes down?   So much potential!
Bob

On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 8:26 AM Mark Hanson via EV  wrote:


Hi folks
All the EVs I’ve converted over the years until 2011 , Electro Metro, Cushman, 
Cheese Wedge, Geo Tracker, Porsche 914, Karmann Ghia, I was able to pick up all 
radio stations including AM but mostly listen to NPR on low band FM.  I used to 
design switching power supplies and class D amplifiers to meet FCC part B EMI 
requirements in my day job.
All power cables a pos-neg (to cancel magnetic RF) are tightly ty wrapped 
together under the far right passenger side underneath the car and all the 
control wires under the left side. The speed control must be as close to the 
motor as possible with short cables (that’s the main EMI source).   You can put 
an inline common mode choke pi filter on the 12V wires feeding the radio but I 
didn’t have to. Just proper layout of power components separate from control 
wiring is the main consideration.
Best regards
Mark

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [EVDL] Radio Noise Issue

[Jay Summet via EV]

Separate small (motorcycle sized) 12v battery behind a 2p2t switch to 
separate both positive & negative lines powering the radio only. Turn 
switch on to charge battery from DC2DC, turn off when you want to listen 
to the radio.  [If the interference really is only coming along the 
power lines...]


Jay

On 10/13/21 7:49 PM, nathan christiansn via EV wrote:

I forgot to add - I would like to avoid getting a new dc-dc converter if
possible.

Nathan

On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 5:48 PM nathan christiansn 
wrote:


Hello Everyone,

I have a Geo Metro that I converted electric and the radio has never been
able to pick up more than one station because of all the noise the dc-dc
converter outputs. I have been able to verify that the noise is being
picked up through the 12 volt input of the radio and not through the
antenna. I have tried putting a large line-voltage EMI filter on the output
of the dc-dc converter and it did not do anything. I also tried putting a
large capacitor on the output and experienced similar results.

Is there anyone out there who has had a similar issue and found a
solution? Any ideas would be appreciated.

Nathan


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Re: [EVDL] Include in events: "EV to power your home"

[Jay Summet via EV]

In Florida with Duke Energy we just got notified that starting Jan 1 
2022 there will be a $30 minimum bill amount (in addition to the current 
$11.45 connection fee).


I would prefer they raise the connection fee on everybody as opposed to 
just charging solar people, part year residents, and people who use very 
little power a minimum amount each month.


Jay

On 10/5/21 6:11 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

This from one EVDL member remindign me of how bad some utilities
are at progress.  I removed his info since I didnt wait for permission
to repost:

In Maryland it costs me $8/mo to be grid tied.
His cost is more like $70/mo or more!
I agree, I woiuld be buldozing a path to "off grid" designs there.
--

Actually, it's even worse than that.  When I originally came up
with the $70 a month figure my wife wasn't working.  Now she
volunteers at the  5 days a week.  That uses about 10kwh
per day EV charging and, she has to charge mostly when the
sun isn't shining.

The new 'Solar Customer' pricing is $50 a month for grid
connection plus about $15 a month for taxes and other fees,
plus now instead of banking power for free, I get paid
wholesale for each kWh I push and charged retail for every
kwh I pull from the grid.  The difference is about 8 cents per kwh.

So next year when this goes into effect I'll pay on average
$36 a month for banking power, plus the $65 mentioned above.
SO closer to $100 a month even though I'm net zero (well
surplus actually) on power.

I'm building a 10kwh solar charging station to offset most
EV charging costs and then, I'm going off-grid.

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Re: [EVDL] Leaf tires. Michelin or OEM

[Jay Summet via EV]

Yes, at 44k the OEM tires were definitely due for a replacement.

The PLUS version of the Ecopia are supposed to last a lot longer than 
the OEM (non-plus) versions. [The rubber is harder or somethingthe 
cost was very close to the same, so I went with the plus versions...] 
Only time/miles will tell for sure..



Jay

On 9/20/21 9:24 PM, Bob Bath via EV wrote:

I got barely 20k off Ecopia. In fairness, I rotated a little late, and figured 
a brand-new car shouldn’t need an alignment. Still…
Michelin Energia fared a little better.

Sincerely,
Bob Bath

Note: any misspellings of the contents of this message are due to 56 y.o. 
vision, hyperactive spell check changing what I typed, or fat fingering— not 
cluelessness.



On Sep 20, 2021, at 5:50 PM, Jay Summet via EV  wrote:

I replaced the stock Ecopia's (non-plus from Nissan) at 44k miles on my Leaf 
with Bridgestone Ecopia EP 422 PLUS  (which are supposed to have a longer life) 
but so far I've only put another 8K on the tires, so I can't say if they are 
any better than the stock ones...

Jay


On 9/20/21 7:39 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
Michelin A/S vs Ecopia or is there a better option? Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf tires. Michelin or OEM

[Jay Summet via EV]

I replaced the stock Ecopia's (non-plus from Nissan) at 44k miles on my 
Leaf with Bridgestone Ecopia EP 422 PLUS  (which are supposed to have a 
longer life) but so far I've only put another 8K on the tires, so I 
can't say if they are any better than the stock ones...


Jay

On 9/20/21 7:39 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

Michelin A/S vs Ecopia or is there a better option? Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] "H2 is lighter" (Was OT: fuel cell mining truck)

[Jay Summet via EV]

Also, H2 is VERY good at escaping things. The atoms are so small.

So while this means it's hard to build a perfect containment system for 
it, it also means that if you only have a very small leakit's hard 
to build up in a normal (not passive house level of sealing) building, 
as it can escape the building just about as good as it can escape 
tanks/pipes/fittings, etc...


Not saying it's safe...just that very small leaks probably are not 
enough to "build up" anywhere. You would need the combination of a 
decent sized leak with an well sealed "peak" and an ignition source.


Jay

On 9/10/21 10:52 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

On 10 Sep 2021 at 5:04, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:


Maybe the Mirai tank system is really tight. Otherwise, I'm really
curious: why haven't there been any reported H2 explosions ?


Could it be partly because they've sold only about 8,500 of them since 2015?
Low sales volume means fewer opportunities for faults to develop.

It would also be interesting to know how many of those sales were to fleets
where the vehicles tend to be parked outside in open lots, and not in
residential garages.


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Re: [EVDL] Cost of PV EV charging

[Jay Summet via EV]

I doubt you'll be able to buy the recalled bolt batteries. Too much 
liability to the sellers if one of them causes a fire.


Jay

On 8/25/21 2:19 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

With the recall of over 100,000 BOLT batteries to be replaced,
There will be a HUGE source.  But I assume that they will
all be bulk sold to utilities who (hopefully) will apply them
to grid-leveling in support of renewables!
Bob

On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 1:30 PM Peter VanDerWal via EV
 wrote:



OOps, forgot. My home solar makes the EV charging free...
(Well, no, with Grid tie it costs me 14 cents per kWh
because that is what each kW is worth that I push back
into the grid so using it to charge an EV is 14cents/kWh lost).


Your utility seems to be giving you a GREAT deal.  Though it makes your
charging appear more expensive than with a lesser deal.  I buy at
$.10/kwh and sell at $.06/kwh which makes my charging $.06.  OTOH, my
utility is willing to buy (pay cash) for as much as I can manage to
produce.  Even at only $.06, I think my payback period is in the range
of 6-8 years.


You both get great deals.  My electric coop only pays their "avoided costs" for 
any surplus electricity (trued up annually), currently that is less than 3 cents per kwh 
(2.6 the last time I checked).
OTOH I'm still collecting on the PBI we agreed to when I first connected.  That 
pays 18.6 cents per kWh produced, regardless of whether I use it or push it to 
the grid.  However, that will run out in less than 2 years.

A couple years after that my 'grandfathered' status runs out and I'll be 
switched to their new 'solar customer' rates, at that point it will cost me 
over $800 a year just for the privilege of being connected to the grid.  iI 
figure it will be cheaper to buy some used EV batteries and disconnect, which 
is what I plan to do.
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[EVDL] Regen Efficiency vs Coasting

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 8/24/21 2:56 AM, Martin WINLOW via EV wrote:

In an EV, much of the braking in stop/go energy can be recovered by 
regenerative braking, thus the ’shed mass’ argument is severely undermined.  
The same applies to hilly terrain.



I can't let this statement go unremarked as it propagates a common 
misconception.  Regen captures some of the power lost from braking or 
going downhill, but the efficiency is probably 15-25% of the total 
energy used to accelerate or climb the hill initially.  So it 
re-captures "much" more than an ICE vehicle does using mechanical brakes 
that drop the energy as heat, but it is not a magic energy recovery 
system. (Unless you have your vehicle towed to the top of a hill, all of 
the energy re-gen captures came out of your vehicle on the way up the 
hill or acceleration curve.)


Coasting without power is MUCH more efficient than stopping with regen 
and then re-accelerating in a BEV (or an ICE for that matter).



Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Melted LEAF charge port

[Jay Summet via EV]

Do you have a 2011/2012? (They are weird with the charger behind the 
back seat).


If you have a 2013 or newer:

The charge port low voltage lines attaches to the cars wiring harness 
under the hood (for the pilot/proximity wires and the LED light (if you 
have one) with a small plug.


The L1/L2/N (larger high voltage power wires) connect to the top of the 
"motor" stack (The charger/power distribution box/ Power Delivery 
Module) with larger bolts.


For a 2011/2012 I could see it being an 8-10 hour process. For a 2013 
I'd expect it to take a shop less than 2 hours if they knew what they 
were doing, or 4 hours if they were following along with a service 
manual and doing it for the first time.


Specifically look at page VC-141 in the Vehicle Charging (vc.pdf) file 
for instructions on removing the J1772 charge port.


If you can find a wrecked Leaf in a Pull-a-part junkyard, it would be 
MUCH cheaper (and well within the ability of a garage mechanic) to swap 
it out yourself (on a 2013+...on a 2011/2012I'm sure the wire snakes 
all over the car and it might be easier just to have the shop do it for 
you


Jay

On 8/18/21 11:38 PM, Bob Bath via EV wrote:

Hey all,
Went out to find my J1772 EVSE melted to my charge port.
Nothing on my Nissanleaf.com, nor YouTube about installing $600 replacement 
harness and charge port.
 Given that Nissan wants 1200 shop time, I’m curious as to see if that’s a 
legit 8-10 hour process. And given the possibility it might happen 8 years from 
now, I’d like to do it myself next time.
Ideas?


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: NHTSA to investigate Tesla / Emergency Vehicle Crashes

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 8/18/21 11:11 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

that's what i don't understand. if you're paying attention, how can autopilot 
cause an accident ?


It generally won't.  The big issue is that humans are humans, and many 
of them stop paying attention as the auto-pilot doesn't enforce that 
they have to.




in other words, if you're driving and auto pilot starts to send you out of your 
lane, it should be trivial to correct it back to where you want to be.



Even when you are paying attention, if the auto-steering suddenly starts 
going straight when it should be continuing a turn, you have a very 
limited amount of time to react before the error may be unrecoverable in 
some situations (generally situations where you shouldn't be using the 
auto pilot anywaysbut again, in Tesla's case, they don't prohibit 
you from using auto-pilot on non-freeways, like some other manufacturers 
do using maps/GPS).


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] electric riding mowers?

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 8/15/21 12:15 PM, Robert Bruninga wrote:

I have the 56 volt self propelled EGO mower and was very impressed
until the 3rd year or
so when the battery wont charge and all I get is blinking red lights.
The replacement
cost for just the battery is over $300.  Is this usual to wear out tht fast?


They only offer a 3 year warranty on their batteries and chargers.

I own 3 7.5 AH batteries, a 5AH one, and 4 2.5 AH batteries (plus 2 fast 
chargers and several regular chargers). I've never had any of the 
batteries or chargers failbut have heard from others that they 
sometimes do.


After 3 years my 7.5 AH batteries are down to about half capacity (but 
my 4 year old one is still at half capacity, so the capacity loss 
appears to slow down after the first 3 years) so you will have to 
eventually buy a 2nd or a replacement battery.


Capacity graphs:
https://www.summet.com/blog/2020/11/20/ego-7-5ah-battery-degradation-over-time-3-year-mark/

(More than a year out of date..about time for me to publish a 4 year 
update...)





My mowing area is maybe a gtenth of an acre and my mowing need is modest.
  I always completed it on one charge
though did get down to blinking red maybe a half dozen times.


[with a 1/10th acre lot you may not need a 2nd battery, but I need 2-4 
batteries to mow my entire lawn depending on the season/weather...]




But am loath to put $300 more into it, not knowing if it is the
battery or the charger.
To check, I disasembld the battery and lightly charged up any low
cells to match the
others (there was no significant mismatch anyway), but still the
charger wont charge it.



Blinking red light on the charger can indicate a high-temp situation on 
the battery (at which point it turns on the fan but doesn't charge until 
the high temp is reduced). But it can also indicate a battery failure 
(or possibly a charger error, but those are usually indicated by no 
lights]


You can pick up a used regular charger relatively cheap on Ebay to test 
the battery for sure, but my guess is that it is probably a battery issue.


Several of my batteries (one 7.5ah, one 5ah, and a few of the 2.5 AH) 
came with used EGO equiptment I purchased off of Craigslist...buying the 
batteries with a kit of equipment that includes 
charger/battery/equipment is the most economical way to go for the 2.5 
AH batteries if you are buying them new and need something like a 
chainsaw, weed wacker, blower, edger, etc...



Jay
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Re: [EVDL] electric riding mowers?

[Jay Summet via EV]

I've been using a self propel Ego mower on about 1/2 acre of grass for 
the last 4 years. They have just come out with a riding version that 
uses their 56v ARC Lithium batteries, but it's pricy.


I've been very happy with all of the chargers/batteries/lawn tools from 
EGO with the EXCEPTION of the self propel unit on the lawnmower. (With a 
1/2 acre lawn, I've burned through 5 self propel units --all repaired or 
replaced under the Ego 5 year warranty...no other issues with the rest 
of the mower, but still, not impressed by the quality of the self propel 
units.  My lawn size really is in the ride-on category, so I'm working 
the heck out of that little self propel mower.)


If it wasn't for the issues with the self propel unit, I'd recommend the 
Ego ride on without reservations even without having tried it out myself 
just based on all of my good experiences with just about everything else 
Ego puts out.  There warranty support has been great, but I don't know 
how that would work with a larger ride-on mower.


Jay



On 8/15/21 4:01 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

OK, I'm ready for an electric riding lawn mower.  My grass area is very
small, probably under a Tenth acre or less, but mostly I need it for getting
around on my yard which has a variation in elevation of 30' and sll kinds
of terrain obstacles (and basically I can no longer walk more than a few
feet without needing to sit.

I see Ryobi and cub cadet both have models thare are leadacid. 48 and
56 volt models.. but I thought we would be in a time of lighter weight
lithium.  Though I admit, for my lazy maintenance record, I'd be more
comfortable with lead acid probably.?

Bob
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Re: [EVDL] Having a Bolt in extreme cold

[Jay Summet via EV]

My guess is that it would work fine at 120 volt charging (but your 
charging speed may be slow, as alot of the power would be going to 
condition the battery.)


Generally, the only thing in the car that sees the 120v is the battery 
charger (taking the 120 volts up to the 3-4 hundred volts the battery uses.


Everything else in the car runs off of either the HV battery system, or 
the 12v accessory system (which is powered by a DC2DC converter from the 
HV battery system.


So as far as the car is concerned, the voltage of the input charging 
system does not matter.


The only issue I see is that at 120 volts, you can only get 1-1.5 kW 
into the vehicle, and if the battery heater takes 1.8 kW, continuously 
it may not be able to keep the battery heated without discharging the 
battery.


For this reason there may be a software lock that prevents cabin heating 
or battery heating when plugged into 120 voltsbut I kind of doubt it.


Jay

On 7/30/21 3:26 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

Thanks!
My biggest concern is whether battery management works on 120v charging.
My son who is looking at an EV in Alaska will be in rentals with only
access to 120v and without owning the outlet might not be able to
switch to 240v.

So, does BMS work on 120v?  What about "remote start" (compartment conditioning?

Bob
On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 3:19 PM Peter VanDerWal via EV
 wrote:


If you leave it plugged in, I suspect it would do ok, maybe 20% range reduction?

 From what I've read, if the car is plugged in and the battery temperature 
drops below 37, or climbs above 95, the battery thermal management system will 
turn on.

So, as long as it isn't so cold that the 1.8kw heater can't keep up, the 
battery temp should stay around 37 degrees.

I know that here in AZ, if I leave my Chevys plugged in, I will occasionally 
here the cooling systems run to keep the batteries cool.  I haven't noticed 
them doing this when not plugged in.  Then again, where I live it only 
occasionaly get's above 95.


My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key

July 29, 2021 11:26 PM, "Robert Bruninga via EV"  wrote:


Is buying a BOLT in Alaska a good idea? In Anchorage for example.

Anchorage is the biggest city in Alaska, there is little else to do within
the 250 mile radius of the Bolt, and adventures can come in the summer
spring and fall.. Just stay home iin the winter!

At least an electric is not somenint that has to "start" in -40F, it just
runs
THoughts?
Bob
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Re: [EVDL] FTC vote on ?Right to Repair? enforcement

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 7/29/21 6:56 PM, Mr. Sharkey via EV wrote:
Mine include not 
driving a bug-eyed clown car that I can't fix myself. If they are so 
wonderful, why did it take three of them to go 160k?


Yes, Gen1/1.5 Leaf's look a bit weird.

I've dismantled a 2013 completely and was quite impressed with the 
general layout of components, minimum number of unique fasteners used, 
ease of access to most components and crash protection (of the salvage 
one I disassembled).


I feel that it would be as easy to fix/wrench as any other factory auto 
if needed, but so far I haven't had to do any maintenance other than 
replace the cabin air filter, 12v accessory  battery and the windshield 
washer fluid on my 2015 driver.


I am also a fan of the Leaf.

Jay
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Re: [EVDL] AutoPilot drops out on tight road turns.

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 7/10/21 1:50 PM, Peter Eckhoff via EV wrote:


Blind spot detection in my Model 3 is useless.  I rely only on my mirrors
and turning my head; not on the terminal presentation



I find that comment interesting. The 2020 Nissan Altima I drove when 
testing out ProPilot had Blind Spot indicators (orange light up 
indicators mounted in the front doors just under where you would look 
for the rear view mirrors).


Driving down the freeway with cars going by on both sides they would 
turn on and off as vehicles were on either side of you near the rear of 
the car.


They were mostly unnoticeable if you were not looking towards the 
mirrors, so not at all distracting (at least, in the daytime, I didn't 
try driving at night), but they were VERY noticeable if you glanced at a 
side mirror.


I felt that they were very useful and a nice feature to have. (They 
never "saved" me, but just having them around made me feel better).


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] AutoPilot drops out on tight road turns.

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 7/9/21 11:55 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

But, honestly, if the driver is paying attention and autopilot shuts 
down, what's to lose ? Up to that point, either autopilot was driving 
the car correctly, in which case the driver should be able to continue 
just fine without it. Or, autopilot was not driving correctly in which 
case the driver should have already taken over. I am having a hard time 
to imagine a situation where Tesla or autopilot can be blamed for a 
crash unless it actually prevented the driver from taking over, and that 
has never happened as far as I know.


Yes, the driver is still responsible, but the big issue is that Tesla 
advertises it as an "auto-pilot" or "full self driving (beta)" that is 
designed to (eventually) drive your care with no required supervision 
from the driver.


Every other car manufacturer calls it "lane assist" or "intelligent 
cruse control" or "freeway driving assistant", which more accurately 
gives the user the impression that it's a fallible assistant that needs 
to be directly supervised, and not something that you would even 
consider tying a weight to your steering wheel and watching a movie with.


This leads to people using it (and trusting it?) in dangerous situations 
where if it cuts out things go wrong very quickly.


See for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ATJaVTpviQ



There is also an issue of how much time a driver needs to recognize that 
the auto-pilot has failed and take control. In the video above, it 
starts to "Bing" less than a second before they are crashed into the trees.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla's Self Driving Feature

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 7/9/21 4:43 PM, Willie via EV wrote:
This "I hate Elon and no level of 
superior performance can overcome that hatred" caught me by complete 
surprise. 


Plus, Tesla is still very much a luxury brand. Sure, the model 3 can 
outperform both of our EV/PHEV vehicles, but since we bought both of 
ours used (off lease), we paid less than the $35K the very lowest base 
model 3 would cost us for both of them.  Maybe when they release a $25k 
car it will truly become mass-market.


Similarly for us, a $130K Model S Plaid is basically in the same 
unobtainable category as the $1 million hyper-cars that it matches in 
performance.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Tesla's Self Driving Feature

[Jay Summet via EV]

I think that most Tesla devotees are either unaware of or underestimate the
level of distaste (to put it mildly) for Elon Musk that exists on the
periphery of EV interest.

I know, the plural of anecdote isn't data, but I see a lot of comments
online from thoughtful, reasonable people who'd like to own EVs, but aren't
at all keen on handing their money to Musk.



My wife refuses to test drive a Tesla because she hates Elon's "TechBro" 
attitude/behavior, so we have a Nissan Leaf and Kia PHEV.


Jay
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