Re: [EVDL] (no subject)

[Dale Curren via EV]

It's so good to hear from you Steve.  I too will turn 70 in a few weeks and
now build camper
vans for various people.  People do want to build things (actually they
dream of it) and I listen to their wants, and then
design and build it.  People like you created to desire for electric
vehicles.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 7:21 AM Steve Clunn via EV 
wrote:

> Hello Ryan
>  I still get the list and read it from time to time but I haven't posted in
> a while. As I'm almost 70 now I do a lot of reflecting back to when I
> started my EV adventure with golf cart batteries and a Curtis controller.
> Things have changed a lot over the years we can now get an amp hour meter
> for less than 100 bucks when back in the golf cart battery days you meter
> was close to 300. I remember when AC motors were an expensive dream and now
> seem to be cheaper than DC brush motor and controller setups. Looking back
> it should be easy to see tipping points at some point it was not
> cost-worthy to build an electric car compared to buying one. Still people
> today like to build things and they're certainly is enough salvage parts
> from all the new EVs out there that one can cobble something together.
> Today anything home made is compared with a Tesla pricewise and performance
> wise. Steve Clunn
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-- 
"We admit that we are like apes, but we never realize that we are apes" -
Charles Darwin
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[EVDL] (no subject)

[Steve Clunn via EV]

Hello Ryan
 I still get the list and read it from time to time but I haven't posted in
a while. As I'm almost 70 now I do a lot of reflecting back to when I
started my EV adventure with golf cart batteries and a Curtis controller.
Things have changed a lot over the years we can now get an amp hour meter
for less than 100 bucks when back in the golf cart battery days you meter
was close to 300. I remember when AC motors were an expensive dream and now
seem to be cheaper than DC brush motor and controller setups. Looking back
it should be easy to see tipping points at some point it was not
cost-worthy to build an electric car compared to buying one. Still people
today like to build things and they're certainly is enough salvage parts
from all the new EVs out there that one can cobble something together.
Today anything home made is compared with a Tesla pricewise and performance
wise. Steve Clunn
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[EVDL] (no subject)

[shepherd4421 via EV]

I have a 87 el camino [it runs] that I'm giving away,  for free, you haul Sent 
from my Galaxy
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Re: [EVDL] (no subject)

[paul dove via EV]

But the BS factor is clear when you read the conclusion that driving electric 
costs more than gasoline. One only needs to drive an electric car for a few 
months to know that is wrong.


Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, October 24, 2021, 11:47 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV 
 wrote:

I had to actually look (skim) at the study.  It appears to be a serious look, 
and is the first of a series on the “EV transition”, so they will do more, and 
much of you will have to pay for.

They do *exclude* some costs, so it could be criticized for that, but at least 
they are transparent in their methodology. That lends itself to making 
intelligent criticisms (Iike their cost numbers on Level 1 chargers), and 
repeating the analysis with different assumptions.

As far as Level 1, they acknowledge that most vehicles come with that. They 
amortize the cost over five years (seems a bit short to me, but I don’t know 
how often they fail). They assume that if you mostly charge at home, you will 
install Level 2, with an annual cost of $320 .

$120/year is for level 1 - my guess is that they assume that even if you get it 
with car, you are still paying for it, though if the retail replacement cost is 
$600, using that number seems excessive. I’m guessing on this, and perhaps a 
closer look would provide more clarity. But there is nothing to prevent you 
from going back and subtracting out that annual cost.

In my opinion, even if you don’t like the assumptions, if you’re into this kind 
of analysis, this is a serious effort, and worthwhile for assessing and 
modifying the very detailed methodology.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Oct 24, 2021, at 12:15 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> --
> 
> 
> 
> Message: 6
> 
> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 17:22:08 -0700
> 
> From: Mark Abramowitz 
> 
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
> 
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not
> 
>    so free press.
> 
> Message-ID: 
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> 
> 
> I know nothing about Level 1 charger costs, so did a quick Google, found this:
> 
> 
> 
> https://blog.carvana.com/2021/07/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-an-ev-charger/
> 
> 
> 
> ? For example, the Level 1 charger costs between $300 to $600 before labor, 
> which stands at about $1,000 to $1,700.?
> 
> 
> 
> Is this wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> - Mark
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Fossil Fuel powered iPhone
> 
> Very wrong. For one thing level one evse are standard OEM equipment that 
> comes with the car. Most garages have a level one plug which is the same plug 
> a cell phone, toaster or lamp would use. No one would permanently install a 
> level one EVSE. I don't bother permanently installing my level 2 EVSE. If you 
> needed level one they are about $175 on eBay. If you looked you could 
> probably find one cheaper. That's why I was out when she said $600 for level 
> 1. That is absurd. Lawrence Rhodes 
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Re: [EVDL] New subject: Cheap Level 2 EVSE

[Peter VanDerWal via EV]

October 25, 2021 1:09 PM, "Lawrence Rhodes via EV"  wrote:

> First of all nothing is non steal able.

Indeed, witness all of the ATM thefts where they were literally ripped out of 
the wall and hauled off.

People are much less likely to try stealing an EVSE.  For one thing, they 
simply aren't valuable enough to make it worth the effort.

Vandalizing them is an entirely different story.
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Re: [EVDL] New subject: Cheap Level 2 EVSE

[Jay Summet via EV]

I have a 24 amp 240v "split volt" that plugs into a Nema 14-30 outlet. I 
have the outlet inside an RV style charging box that has a lockable 
closable cover. So I use a combo padlock to lock the cover closed with 
the plug inside and also pass the cord through the padlock.


(the switchvolt unit has a "nail head" hole on the back that goes over a 
screw in the wall, so it's sort of wall mountedbut you can lift it 
off if you know how it's mounted...)


It's not quite the same as screwed to a concrete wall with security 
screws, but if somebody cuts the cord they will have to deal with 240 
volts... and an EVSE that is missing a plug.


Jay


On 10/25/21 3:41 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

But that is still a charge cord.
I want a non-stealable wall mount cheap L2 charger box
for a public space not one's home garage...
and they have disappeared.
bob

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 6:34 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV
 wrote:


https://www.amazon.com/Charger-Portable-Electric-Charging-Universal/dp/B096GBJW14
 Here is a $139 level 2 EVSE of course it's only 16amps so limited to 3 or 4kw. 
Lawrence Rhodes

I buy the $299 L2 charge cords that will do both L1 and L2.
But what has disappeared is the $300 wall mounted L2.
I want to donate an L2 to an organization, but the less
expensive ones have disappeared.

Bob
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Re: [EVDL] New subject: Cheap Level 2 EVSE

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

First of all nothing is non steal able. You can mount anything on a wall and 
hide the connection. The thief can still open the box unscrew it from the wall 
and take it. It just takes a little longer if permanently installed. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/124848314568 This is from the Czech Republic. Lawrence 
Rhodes 






On Monday, October 25, 2021, 12:42:02 PM PDT, Robert Bruninga 
 wrote: 





But that is still a charge cord.
I want a non-stealable wall mount cheap L2 charger box
for a public space not one's home garage...
and they have disappeared.
bob

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 6:34 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV
 wrote:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Charger-Portable-Electric-Charging-Universal/dp/B096GBJW14
>  Here is a $139 level 2 EVSE of course it's only 16amps so limited to 3 or 
> 4kw. Lawrence Rhodes
>
> I buy the $299 L2 charge cords that will do both L1 and L2.
> But what has disappeared is the $300 wall mounted L2.
> I want to donate an L2 to an organization, but the less
> expensive ones have disappeared.
>
> Bob

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Re: [EVDL] New subject: Cheap Level 2 EVSE

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

Yes, I hve identified an excellent exterior rated box at very low cost,
but it requires cutting a hole in the front palnle stell box.

Something I am excited to do, but now that I am disabled and cannot
even make it out to the shop, it wouild be something I am suggesting
someone else do and  in this case it is someone with no technical skills
at a location in anotgher city and a building /group of shich I am
not a member.

So again, I lament the loss of low cost L2 on-the-wall charge boxes.
Bob

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 3:51 PM Willie McKemie via EV  wrote:
>
> You might consider putting the unit in a steel securable box. Maybe with a
> wire mesh window so the user can see the lights on the unit. I guess the
> cost of the steel box would be would cover the difference between a proper
> wall mount and the portable. On the other hand the portable is available.
>
> On Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 14:42 Robert Bruninga via EV 
> wrote:
>
> > But that is still a charge cord.
> > I want a non-stealable wall mount cheap L2 charger box
> > for a public space not one's home garage...
> > and they have disappeared.
> > bob
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 6:34 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > https://www.amazon.com/Charger-Portable-Electric-Charging-Universal/dp/B096GBJW14
> > Here is a $139 level 2 EVSE of course it's only 16amps so limited to 3 or
> > 4kw. Lawrence Rhodes
> > >
> > > I buy the $299 L2 charge cords that will do both L1 and L2.
> > > But what has disappeared is the $300 wall mounted L2.
> > > I want to donate an L2 to an organization, but the less
> > > expensive ones have disappeared.
> > >
> > > Bob
> > > ___
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Re: [EVDL] New subject: Cheap Level 2 EVSE

[Willie McKemie via EV]

You might consider putting the unit in a steel securable box. Maybe with a
wire mesh window so the user can see the lights on the unit. I guess the
cost of the steel box would be would cover the difference between a proper
wall mount and the portable. On the other hand the portable is available.

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021, 14:42 Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

> But that is still a charge cord.
> I want a non-stealable wall mount cheap L2 charger box
> for a public space not one's home garage...
> and they have disappeared.
> bob
>
> On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 6:34 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV
>  wrote:
> >
> >
> https://www.amazon.com/Charger-Portable-Electric-Charging-Universal/dp/B096GBJW14
> Here is a $139 level 2 EVSE of course it's only 16amps so limited to 3 or
> 4kw. Lawrence Rhodes
> >
> > I buy the $299 L2 charge cords that will do both L1 and L2.
> > But what has disappeared is the $300 wall mounted L2.
> > I want to donate an L2 to an organization, but the less
> > expensive ones have disappeared.
> >
> > Bob
> > ___
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Re: [EVDL] New subject: Cheap Level 2 EVSE

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

But that is still a charge cord.
I want a non-stealable wall mount cheap L2 charger box
for a public space not one's home garage...
and they have disappeared.
bob

On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 6:34 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV
 wrote:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Charger-Portable-Electric-Charging-Universal/dp/B096GBJW14
>  Here is a $139 level 2 EVSE of course it's only 16amps so limited to 3 or 
> 4kw. Lawrence Rhodes
>
> I buy the $299 L2 charge cords that will do both L1 and L2.
> But what has disappeared is the $300 wall mounted L2.
> I want to donate an L2 to an organization, but the less
> expensive ones have disappeared.
>
> Bob
> ___
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[EVDL] New subject: Cheap Level 2 EVSE

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

https://www.amazon.com/Charger-Portable-Electric-Charging-Universal/dp/B096GBJW14
 Here is a $139 level 2 EVSE of course it's only 16amps so limited to 3 or 4kw. 
Lawrence Rhodes

I buy the $299 L2 charge cords that will do both L1 and L2.
But what has disappeared is the $300 wall mounted L2.
I want to donate an L2 to an organization, but the less
expensive ones have disappeared.

Bob
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Re: [EVDL] (no subject)

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

I had to actually look (skim) at the study.  It appears to be a serious look, 
and is the first of a series on the “EV transition”, so they will do more, and 
much of you will have to pay for.

They do *exclude* some costs, so it could be criticized for that, but at least 
they are transparent in their methodology. That lends itself to making 
intelligent criticisms (Iike their cost numbers on Level 1 chargers), and 
repeating the analysis with different assumptions.

As far as Level 1, they acknowledge that most vehicles come with that. They 
amortize the cost over five years (seems a bit short to me, but I don’t know 
how often they fail). They assume that if you mostly charge at home, you will 
install Level 2, with an annual cost of $320 .

$120/year is for level 1 - my guess is that they assume that even if you get it 
with car, you are still paying for it, though if the retail replacement cost is 
$600, using that number seems excessive. I’m guessing on this, and perhaps a 
closer look would provide more clarity. But there is nothing to prevent you 
from going back and subtracting out that annual cost.

In my opinion, even if you don’t like the assumptions, if you’re into this kind 
of analysis, this is a serious effort, and worthwhile for assessing and 
modifying the very detailed methodology.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Oct 24, 2021, at 12:15 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> --
> 
> 
> 
> Message: 6
> 
> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 17:22:08 -0700
> 
> From: Mark Abramowitz 
> 
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
> 
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not
> 
> so free press.
> 
> Message-ID: 
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> 
> 
> I know nothing about Level 1 charger costs, so did a quick Google, found this:
> 
> 
> 
> https://blog.carvana.com/2021/07/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-an-ev-charger/
> 
> 
> 
> ? For example, the Level 1 charger costs between $300 to $600 before labor, 
> which stands at about $1,000 to $1,700.?
> 
> 
> 
> Is this wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> - Mark
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Fossil Fuel powered iPhone
> 
> Very wrong. For one thing level one evse are standard OEM equipment that 
> comes with the car. Most garages have a level one plug which is the same plug 
> a cell phone, toaster or lamp would use. No one would permanently install a 
> level one EVSE. I don't bother permanently installing my level 2 EVSE. If you 
> needed level one they are about $175 on eBay. If you looked you could 
> probably find one cheaper. That's why I was out when she said $600 for level 
> 1. That is absurd. Lawrence Rhodes 
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Re: [EVDL] (no subject)

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 24 Oct 2021 at 7:15, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:

>  I was out when she said $600 for level 1. That is absurd. 

It's not absurd if the article's writer is trying to inflate the cost of 
owning an EV, while minimizing the cost of owning an ICEV.  

Most writers with a goal of slamming EVs do this by using worst-case numbers 
for EVs against best-case numbers for ICEVs.  This one apparently couldn't 
get the results her boss wanted even using that method, so she had to use 
wrong figures instead.  

I'm sure it was just an innocent accident, though. :-\

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

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[EVDL] (no subject)

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

--



Message: 6

Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 17:22:08 -0700

From: Mark Abramowitz 

To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 

Subject: Re: [EVDL] Michigan still spouting FUD. From the Detroit not

    so free press.

Message-ID: 

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"



I know nothing about Level 1 charger costs, so did a quick Google, found this:



https://blog.carvana.com/2021/07/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-an-ev-charger/



? For example, the Level 1 charger costs between $300 to $600 before labor, 
which stands at about $1,000 to $1,700.?



Is this wrong?



- Mark



Sent from my Fossil Fuel powered iPhone

Very wrong. For one thing level one evse are standard OEM equipment that comes 
with the car. Most garages have a level one plug which is the same plug a cell 
phone, toaster or lamp would use. No one would permanently install a level one 
EVSE. I don't bother permanently installing my level 2 EVSE. If you needed 
level one they are about $175 on eBay. If you looked you could probably find 
one cheaper. That's why I was out when she said $600 for level 1. That is 
absurd. Lawrence Rhodes 
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Re: [EVDL] (no subject)

[Damon Henry via EV]

Actually, the EVDL has never enforced any rules in regards to where or what 
kind of work you are allowed to do when contributing to the list.  For instance 
in my career I have bounced back and forth between being a programmer and an IT 
administrator in the Portland Or area and I have never been told I could not 
post to the list because of it :)

Damon

From: EV  on behalf of Ron Solberg via EV 

Sent: Monday, October 8, 2018 11:20 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: vio...@alliancecom.net
Subject: [EVDL] (no subject)

I quit posting  on  the EVDL list sometime ago when I understood my
work with ClipperCreek CS 100 units to charge Tesla Model  S cars here
in Hills, MN, did not fit the rules.

Being born in 1941, I too have concerns about the downside of Tesla
"ownership', but I bought a Model 3 since I can write it off with my
business and I can charge it off my tracking solar PV system. I am
equally concerned about the planned obsolescence engineered into
modern ICE cars and the cost and availability of parts and mechanics
in the future, Therefore, I also drive a 1929 Model A Ford tudor. I am
not a mechanic, but I can fix it, I own it, it s basic and parts are
readily available. Five million were made so old and new parts are
available.

Ron Solberg
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[EVDL] (no subject)

[Ron Solberg via EV]

I quit posting  on  the EVDL list sometime ago when I understood my  
work with ClipperCreek CS 100 units to charge Tesla Model  S cars here  
in Hills, MN, did not fit the rules.


Being born in 1941, I too have concerns about the downside of Tesla  
"ownership', but I bought a Model 3 since I can write it off with my  
business and I can charge it off my tracking solar PV system. I am  
equally concerned about the planned obsolescence engineered into  
modern ICE cars and the cost and availability of parts and mechanics  
in the future, Therefore, I also drive a 1929 Model A Ford tudor. I am  
not a mechanic, but I can fix it, I own it, it s basic and parts are  
readily available. Five million were made so old and new parts are  
available.


Ron Solberg
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[EVDL] New subject: Aerodynamics for cycles. Was: Re: Most efficient hub motor for 20' wheel

[Lawrence Rhodes via EV]

All the work has been done.  Look here: 
http://craigvetter.com/pages/470MPG/470MPG%20Main.html  and here:  
http://recumbents.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3727  Lawrence Rhodes






From: ken via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>

To: "Bill Dube" <billd...@killacycle.com>,"Electric Vehicle

Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org>

Subject: Re: [EVDL] Most efficient hub motor for 20' wheel

Message-ID: <18104873db5af201d286fad181500c8b.squir...@peakfoto.com>

Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8


I have a jonway maxiscooter is it more aerodiamic with the wind shield on?


could I make a tarp from the windshield to trunk with fiberglass rods to

improve things?
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[EVDL] (no subject)

[Jay Summet via EV]

Jay



Sent: Tue Dec 27 09:29:39 EST 2016
Subject: Blown HV fuse reasons?

Driving my S10 conversion the America kit I stepped on the gas while crossing a 
road and heard a pop. Navigated to the side of the road and it looks like my 
high voltage fuse has blown.

I have had twenty thousand miles on this fuse so far. No changes recently.

I figure either the fuse blew because it was old and vibrating. Or because my 
Curtis controller had a problem.

I have a spare fuse in my glove box I could replace it with, but obviously I'm 
worried the new one will just blow again if it's a problem with my controller. 
It's not like I was flooring it or doing any type of driving I wouldn't 
normally do.

Does anybody have suggestions for side of the road testing of a Curtis 
controller with a multi-meter?


Jay
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[EVDL] (no subject)

[Bruce Lawton via EV]

OK, Cor's right. So let's let this thread end now. It has very little to do 
with EVs, other than being a potential contributor to the overall power supply.

Thanks!

Bruce
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[EVDL] (no subject)

[europeanfitn...@netzero.net via EV]

 I'm Pascal LardyI have a question for any one.I own an hybrid sailboat with 12 
x 12 volt AGM battery bank. according to the manufacturer the battery shall not 
discharge more than Minimum voltage need to be 12.2max voltage need to be 
14.5.I like to build and install zener regulator describe below I have the lee 
hart minimalist regulator  and I like Cor van de Water  mod. I need to verified 
the different parts I think 14.7 volt is too much for my battery bank? what 
zener diode do i need to use to achieve those mini and max voltage.Can you help 
me ?Thanks


NetZero now offers 4G mobile broadband. Sign up now.
http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT1
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[EVDL] (no subject)

[Russ Sciville]

Its very interesting regarding the extra cost of the 22kW charger which is made 
by Brusa because the 3.3kW charger they have sold for years isn't much less 
than that.


I can only assume that it is a single phase charger when 3 phase isn't 
available with a configurable charge rate in the same way that the smaller one 
can be adjusted to suit 13A or 16A supplies.

Russ

www.evalbum.com/1454

Lotus Elise EV
Vortex EV
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[EVDL] (no subject)

[Russ Sciville]

I agree with Martin here.

The UK has one of the largest new car markets in Europe, highest fuel prices 
and very pro EV use as can be attested by all the charge points being installed 
(or promised anyway).

Until recently, I had a deposit on one of the first of the S series cars but 
circumstances as well as having two of my own built EV's required me to cancel 
it.

It is a lovely car though as is the Roadster and is streets ahead of the 
competition.

Considering we had one of the first overseas Tesla showrooms, I wonder why we 
have now been put into the slow lane?

Russ

www.evalbum.com/1454

Lotus Elise EV
Vortex EV
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