Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

[Cruisin via EV]

Not true, go try out a TESLA the #1 EV

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[EVDL] EV Start UP

[ROBERT via EV]

Thanks for the answers.  You guys did great.


However, your emails raised two additional questions:


(1) Since the auxiliary battery is not charged in the ACC position per Cor van 
de Water e-mail and the auxiliary battery may be charged with a roof top solar 
panel per Peri Hartman e-mail, then is the auxiliary battery only charged with 
the car running or when the charger is activated or some other time?

(2) From Cor van de Water e-mail, when is the HV leakage first checked?  Is it 
checked by the BMS system or some other system just prior to starting the car?  
I assume when the car is running some system is checking the HV leakage.

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Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

[ROBERT via EV]

I can assume from your checking that the HV circuit is not checked for leakage 
in the ACC position.  However, I may be incorrect.  Good response.  Creates 
another question:  Is HV leakage checked by the BMS system of another system?



From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Cor van de Water via EV 
<ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 10:56 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

Peri,
I have checked my (2011) Leaf with LeafSpy when in Acc mode and it does
not charge the aux battery, I saw the aux battery voltage declining (and
a current out of the battery).
As soon as the car is started *or* the car is charging, then the aux
battery is being maintained by the DC/DC converter from the main pack.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com
Proxim - Wireless Broadband, Backhaul Solutions and Access 
...<http://www.proxim.com/>
www.proxim.com
Proxim Wireless offers licensed and unlicensed point to point, backhaul, 
bridge, point to multipoint, wireless broadband and wireless access points.



This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman
via EV
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:46 PM
To: ROBERT
Cc: evdl
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

Ok, I can answer some of the questions with respect to a Leaf.

1. Acc only: You press the start button without holding down the brake
pedal.

2. Acc charging: yes, heating I don't think so. (However there is a way
to do it remotely through their carwings system, never tried it.)

3. contactors: brake must be pressed while pressing start button

4. Acc only: pretty much everything seems to be working except heat and
drive.

5. don't know, but I would presume so or else the 12v battery would go
dead.

6. same answer as 5.

7. Not sure what you mean by "separately". There are several warnings
that I've seen over the years - low tire pressure, door ajar. There
really isn't much detail presented to the driver so I think you would
need to read the codes off a computer to get what you're looking for.

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "ROBERT" <bhensle...@msn.com>
To: "Peri Hartman" <pe...@kotatko.com>
Cc:
Sent: 22-Dec-16 8:35:51 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

>All AC EVs have the same basic components: Propulsion Batteries,
>Auxiliary Battery, HV/Low voltage Converter/Charger, Inverter/Regen
>Unit, AC Motor, Battery Charger, Mechanical Brakes, Throttle Pedal,
>some type of ON/OFF/START switch.  You get in the vehicle do something
>to start the vehicle, put your foot on the throttle and go.  My
>questions are very specific.  What happens when you do the things that
>I ask.  As an example: you get in your vehicle and want to listen to
>the radio while the car is charging.  How do you do it?  Is it possible

>to listen to the radio while you charge the car.  Can you run the
>heater or AC unit? What must you do as a driver/owner to accomplish
>these tasks?  Some vehicles may let you do some things but others may
>not.  If you own a vehicle, what is the vehicle and will it allow the
>tasks and what must you do to answer the questions.
>
>
>---
-
>From: Peri Hartman <pe...@kotatko.com>
>Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 6:19 PM
>To: ROBERT; ev@lists.evdl.org
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up
>
>Your questions are clear but your context is not. Are you asking
>- what mass produced EVs do in general?
>- what a specific EV does?
>- what the generally assumed best practices are?
>- what is physically required?
>
>Peri
>
>-- Original Message --
>From: "ROBERT via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>To: "ev@lists.evdl.org" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>Cc:
>Sent: 22-Dec-16 5:14:33 PM
>Subject: [EVDL] EV Start Up
>
> >I ask the question in a previous post "does anyone know the start up
> >sequence for an EV".  As I have seen in past posting the subject was
> >very quickly changed to another subject. In this case, a heater burn
>up
> >issue for the Think City Heater.  Please do not do this again.
>Please,
> >respect the post.  Thanks.
> >
> >I will try again with very specific questions.
> >
> >(1) How do you put an EV in the aux

Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

[ROBERT via EV]

Very interesting about the display and voice messages.  Thanks.



From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Cor van de Water via EV 
<ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 10:53 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

Most factory EVs and Hybrids have multiple idiot lights (check engine;
brakes; vehicle control; tire pressure; low battery charge and others)
and on-screen display warnings and audio messages spoken over the in-car
loudspeakers.

Obviously the on-screen display will prioritize the most important
event, but the idiot lights usually have a single function, so they are
either on or off,

depending whether the fault or warning is present, for example door
closed warning, seatbelt warning but also more serious issues with
failing sensors

or airbags or vehicle control (brakes, stability control and so on).

Obviously there is not priority needed between lighting the "Low battery
warning light" and the "Seatbelt warning light", they are independent.

But the on-screen display will show only the most important one until it
is acknowledged by the user with a button press, then the next one will
show.

I presume that audio also has priority built-in but I have never had
more than one message at the same time, so they might simply be queued
and

every time a next message needs to be spoken, the highest prio waiting
message is voiced, I dont know for sure.



Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com
Proxim - Wireless Broadband, Backhaul Solutions and Access 
...<http://www.proxim.com/>
www.proxim.com
Proxim Wireless offers licensed and unlicensed point to point, backhaul, 
bridge, point to multipoint, wireless broadband and wireless access points.



This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.



From: ROBERT [mailto:bhensle...@msn.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:01 PM
To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up



Thanks, you answered all the question very clearly.  I still need some
clarification on #7.  Most industrial monitoring and alarm systems
prioritize faults.  A warning is a malfunction that does not stop the
process.  A fault will stop some action.  Most ICE cars have a Engine
Check Light.  When the Check Engine Light illuminates, the car will
usually continue to operate; however, an error code is stored in the
computer.  The same applies to the "idiot lights" on a car.  An ICE car
shuts down if a major fault occurs.  With an EV inverter, it is possible
for an IGBT to overheat and the car could be put in a lower performance
mode but continue to operate.  The car could illuminate a warning light
is this case.  In addition, an EV inverter could blow an IGBT or have a
shutdown temperature setting.  Since the auxiliary battery is still
operational, a fault light could illuminate.  Does an EV have two lights
and does it prioritize malfunctions?





From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Cor van de Water via
EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:14 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up



Robert,
(1+2) All factory EVs and conversions that I have seen have an ACC key
position.
This position typically does the same as in an ICE: it does not power up
the drivetrain, it only enables some 12V loads such as radio, lights and
cig lighter to name a few, but the aux battery is not charged and
extended time spent in ACC mode will run down the aux battery.
You could modify the ACC mode to engage a relay that powers a battery
charger (off the main pack) to recharge the aux battery. You shift the
risk from running down the aux to the main pack.
AC or heater are typically not enabled in ACC

In case I mis-interpreted your question: if you want to know if the main
pack can be charged in ACC mode then yes - main pack charging is
typically possible in ALL vehicle modes except when "Ready to drive".
Even if the car is off, if you plug in the charger it will typically
power up enough of the car to charge the main pack and also keep the aux
battery maintained.
Some cars allow heating/cooling of the car (even remotely controlled)
and this is very useful when already plugged in to charge the main pack.
Car does not need to be in ACC mode to do this for the production EVs
that have this feature. Conversions typically need to be "Ready" before
all

Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Actually, that reminds me: I read somewhere that the dc/dc is off when 
the car is off and instead it uses the small solar panel on the roof to 
try to keep the 12v battery charged.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Cor van de Water via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
Cc:
Sent: 22-Dec-16 9:56:48 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up


Peri,
I have checked my (2011) Leaf with LeafSpy when in Acc mode and it does
not charge the aux battery, I saw the aux battery voltage declining 
(and

a current out of the battery).
As soon as the car is started *or* the car is charging, then the aux
battery is being maintained by the DC/DC converter from the main pack.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential 
and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you 
received

this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman
via EV
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:46 PM
To: ROBERT
Cc: evdl
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

Ok, I can answer some of the questions with respect to a Leaf.

1. Acc only: You press the start button without holding down the brake
pedal.

2. Acc charging: yes, heating I don't think so. (However there is a way
to do it remotely through their carwings system, never tried it.)

3. contactors: brake must be pressed while pressing start button

4. Acc only: pretty much everything seems to be working except heat and
drive.

5. don't know, but I would presume so or else the 12v battery would go
dead.

6. same answer as 5.

7. Not sure what you mean by "separately". There are several warnings
that I've seen over the years - low tire pressure, door ajar. There
really isn't much detail presented to the driver so I think you would
need to read the codes off a computer to get what you're looking for.

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "ROBERT" <bhensle...@msn.com>
To: "Peri Hartman" <pe...@kotatko.com>
Cc:
Sent: 22-Dec-16 8:35:51 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up


All AC EVs have the same basic components: Propulsion Batteries,
Auxiliary Battery, HV/Low voltage Converter/Charger, Inverter/Regen
Unit, AC Motor, Battery Charger, Mechanical Brakes, Throttle Pedal,
some type of ON/OFF/START switch.  You get in the vehicle do something
to start the vehicle, put your foot on the throttle and go.  My
questions are very specific.  What happens when you do the things that
I ask.  As an example: you get in your vehicle and want to listen to
the radio while the car is charging.  How do you do it?  Is it 
possible



to listen to the radio while you charge the car.  Can you run the
heater or AC unit? What must you do as a driver/owner to accomplish
these tasks?  Some vehicles may let you do some things but others may
not.  If you own a vehicle, what is the vehicle and will it allow the
tasks and what must you do to answer the questions.


---

-

From: Peri Hartman <pe...@kotatko.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 6:19 PM
To: ROBERT; ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

Your questions are clear but your context is not. Are you asking
- what mass produced EVs do in general?
- what a specific EV does?
- what the generally assumed best practices are?
- what is physically required?

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "ROBERT via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: "ev@lists.evdl.org" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
Cc:
Sent: 22-Dec-16 5:14:33 PM
Subject: [EVDL] EV Start Up

 >I ask the question in a previous post "does anyone know the start up
 >sequence for an EV".  As I have seen in past posting the subject was
 >very quickly changed to another subject. In this case, a heater burn
up
 >issue for the Think City Heater.  Please do not do this again.
Please,
 >respect the post.  Thanks.
 >
 >I will try again with very specific questions.
 >
 >(1) How do you put an EV in the auxiliaries only position?  Does it
 >have an ACC position as on older ICE car with a key?
 >
 >(2) When in the ACC only position, can the battery charger be
 >energized?  Can the AC or heater be energized?
 >
 >(3) Do you need to have the brake pedal depressed to energize the
 >inverter?  I think this is required to depress the START button.
 >
 >(4) Is logic power (not HV) applied to the inverter if the car is in
 >the ACC position.
 >
 >(5) Is the HV/12VDC conve

Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Peri,
I have checked my (2011) Leaf with LeafSpy when in Acc mode and it does
not charge the aux battery, I saw the aux battery voltage declining (and
a current out of the battery).
As soon as the car is started *or* the car is charging, then the aux
battery is being maintained by the DC/DC converter from the main pack.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman
via EV
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:46 PM
To: ROBERT
Cc: evdl
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

Ok, I can answer some of the questions with respect to a Leaf.

1. Acc only: You press the start button without holding down the brake 
pedal.

2. Acc charging: yes, heating I don't think so. (However there is a way 
to do it remotely through their carwings system, never tried it.)

3. contactors: brake must be pressed while pressing start button

4. Acc only: pretty much everything seems to be working except heat and 
drive.

5. don't know, but I would presume so or else the 12v battery would go 
dead.

6. same answer as 5.

7. Not sure what you mean by "separately". There are several warnings 
that I've seen over the years - low tire pressure, door ajar. There 
really isn't much detail presented to the driver so I think you would 
need to read the codes off a computer to get what you're looking for.

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "ROBERT" <bhensle...@msn.com>
To: "Peri Hartman" <pe...@kotatko.com>
Cc:
Sent: 22-Dec-16 8:35:51 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

>All AC EVs have the same basic components: Propulsion Batteries, 
>Auxiliary Battery, HV/Low voltage Converter/Charger, Inverter/Regen 
>Unit, AC Motor, Battery Charger, Mechanical Brakes, Throttle Pedal, 
>some type of ON/OFF/START switch.  You get in the vehicle do something 
>to start the vehicle, put your foot on the throttle and go.  My 
>questions are very specific.  What happens when you do the things that 
>I ask.  As an example: you get in your vehicle and want to listen to 
>the radio while the car is charging.  How do you do it?  Is it possible

>to listen to the radio while you charge the car.  Can you run the 
>heater or AC unit? What must you do as a driver/owner to accomplish 
>these tasks?  Some vehicles may let you do some things but others may 
>not.  If you own a vehicle, what is the vehicle and will it allow the 
>tasks and what must you do to answer the questions.
>
>
>---
-
>From: Peri Hartman <pe...@kotatko.com>
>Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 6:19 PM
>To: ROBERT; ev@lists.evdl.org
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up
>
>Your questions are clear but your context is not. Are you asking
>- what mass produced EVs do in general?
>- what a specific EV does?
>- what the generally assumed best practices are?
>- what is physically required?
>
>Peri
>
>-- Original Message --
>From: "ROBERT via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>To: "ev@lists.evdl.org" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
>Cc:
>Sent: 22-Dec-16 5:14:33 PM
>Subject: [EVDL] EV Start Up
>
> >I ask the question in a previous post "does anyone know the start up
> >sequence for an EV".  As I have seen in past posting the subject was
> >very quickly changed to another subject. In this case, a heater burn 
>up
> >issue for the Think City Heater.  Please do not do this again.  
>Please,
> >respect the post.  Thanks.
> >
> >I will try again with very specific questions.
> >
> >(1) How do you put an EV in the auxiliaries only position?  Does it
> >have an ACC position as on older ICE car with a key?
> >
> >(2) When in the ACC only position, can the battery charger be
> >energized?  Can the AC or heater be energized?
> >
> >(3) Do you need to have the brake pedal depressed to energize the
> >inverter?  I think this is required to depress the START button.
> >
> >(4) Is logic power (not HV) applied to the inverter if the car is in
> >the ACC position.
> >
> >(5) Is the HV/12VDC converter energized in the ACC position?
> >
> >(6) Is the HV/12VDC converter energized when the car is charging?
> >
> >(7) During start up, does the car r

Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Most factory EVs and Hybrids have multiple idiot lights (check engine;
brakes; vehicle control; tire pressure; low battery charge and others)
and on-screen display warnings and audio messages spoken over the in-car
loudspeakers.

Obviously the on-screen display will prioritize the most important
event, but the idiot lights usually have a single function, so they are
either on or off,

depending whether the fault or warning is present, for example door
closed warning, seatbelt warning but also more serious issues with
failing sensors

or airbags or vehicle control (brakes, stability control and so on).

Obviously there is not priority needed between lighting the "Low battery
warning light" and the "Seatbelt warning light", they are independent.

But the on-screen display will show only the most important one until it
is acknowledged by the user with a button press, then the next one will
show.

I presume that audio also has priority built-in but I have never had
more than one message at the same time, so they might simply be queued
and 

every time a next message needs to be spoken, the highest prio waiting
message is voiced, I dont know for sure.

 

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless
 
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.



From: ROBERT [mailto:bhensle...@msn.com] 
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:01 PM
To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

 

Thanks, you answered all the question very clearly.  I still need some
clarification on #7.  Most industrial monitoring and alarm systems
prioritize faults.  A warning is a malfunction that does not stop the
process.  A fault will stop some action.  Most ICE cars have a Engine
Check Light.  When the Check Engine Light illuminates, the car will
usually continue to operate; however, an error code is stored in the
computer.  The same applies to the "idiot lights" on a car.  An ICE car
shuts down if a major fault occurs.  With an EV inverter, it is possible
for an IGBT to overheat and the car could be put in a lower performance
mode but continue to operate.  The car could illuminate a warning light
is this case.  In addition, an EV inverter could blow an IGBT or have a
shutdown temperature setting.  Since the auxiliary battery is still
operational, a fault light could illuminate.  Does an EV have two lights
and does it prioritize malfunctions? 

 



From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Cor van de Water via
EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:14 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up 

 

Robert,
(1+2) All factory EVs and conversions that I have seen have an ACC key
position.
This position typically does the same as in an ICE: it does not power up
the drivetrain, it only enables some 12V loads such as radio, lights and
cig lighter to name a few, but the aux battery is not charged and
extended time spent in ACC mode will run down the aux battery.
You could modify the ACC mode to engage a relay that powers a battery
charger (off the main pack) to recharge the aux battery. You shift the
risk from running down the aux to the main pack.
AC or heater are typically not enabled in ACC

In case I mis-interpreted your question: if you want to know if the main
pack can be charged in ACC mode then yes - main pack charging is
typically possible in ALL vehicle modes except when "Ready to drive".
Even if the car is off, if you plug in the charger it will typically
power up enough of the car to charge the main pack and also keep the aux
battery maintained.
Some cars allow heating/cooling of the car (even remotely controlled)
and this is very useful when already plugged in to charge the main pack.
Car does not need to be in ACC mode to do this for the production EVs
that have this feature. Conversions typically need to be "Ready" before
allowing heating or A/C.

(3) Since the inverter is not powered in ACC mode, you do not depress
the brake. In fact, *not* braking while pushing the Power button is how
you put the car in ACC mode. If you brake and push Power, then the car
starts to "Ready".

(4) I don't know for sure, it makes no sense to apply 12V to the
inverter when it is not used, so I expect not.

(5) No
(6) Yes
(7) What do you mean separately? The software runs through a list of
checks. Anything that does not check out and is worthy of reporting gets
reported, so the reports are typi

Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Ok, I can answer some of the questions with respect to a Leaf.

1. Acc only: You press the start button without holding down the brake 
pedal.


2. Acc charging: yes, heating I don't think so. (However there is a way 
to do it remotely through their carwings system, never tried it.)


3. contactors: brake must be pressed while pressing start button

4. Acc only: pretty much everything seems to be working except heat and 
drive.


5. don't know, but I would presume so or else the 12v battery would go 
dead.


6. same answer as 5.

7. Not sure what you mean by "separately". There are several warnings 
that I've seen over the years - low tire pressure, door ajar. There 
really isn't much detail presented to the driver so I think you would 
need to read the codes off a computer to get what you're looking for.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "ROBERT" <bhensle...@msn.com>
To: "Peri Hartman" <pe...@kotatko.com>
Cc:
Sent: 22-Dec-16 8:35:51 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

All AC EVs have the same basic components: Propulsion Batteries, 
Auxiliary Battery, HV/Low voltage Converter/Charger, Inverter/Regen 
Unit, AC Motor, Battery Charger, Mechanical Brakes, Throttle Pedal, 
some type of ON/OFF/START switch.  You get in the vehicle do something 
to start the vehicle, put your foot on the throttle and go.  My 
questions are very specific.  What happens when you do the things that 
I ask.  As an example: you get in your vehicle and want to listen to 
the radio while the car is charging.  How do you do it?  Is it possible 
to listen to the radio while you charge the car.  Can you run the 
heater or AC unit? What must you do as a driver/owner to accomplish 
these tasks?  Some vehicles may let you do some things but others may 
not.  If you own a vehicle, what is the vehicle and will it allow the 
tasks and what must you do to answer the questions.




From: Peri Hartman <pe...@kotatko.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 6:19 PM
To: ROBERT; ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

Your questions are clear but your context is not. Are you asking
- what mass produced EVs do in general?
- what a specific EV does?
- what the generally assumed best practices are?
- what is physically required?

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "ROBERT via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: "ev@lists.evdl.org" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
Cc:
Sent: 22-Dec-16 5:14:33 PM
Subject: [EVDL] EV Start Up

>I ask the question in a previous post "does anyone know the start up
>sequence for an EV".  As I have seen in past posting the subject was
>very quickly changed to another subject. In this case, a heater burn 
up
>issue for the Think City Heater.  Please do not do this again.  
Please,

>respect the post.  Thanks.
>
>I will try again with very specific questions.
>
>(1) How do you put an EV in the auxiliaries only position?  Does it
>have an ACC position as on older ICE car with a key?
>
>(2) When in the ACC only position, can the battery charger be
>energized?  Can the AC or heater be energized?
>
>(3) Do you need to have the brake pedal depressed to energize the
>inverter?  I think this is required to depress the START button.
>
>(4) Is logic power (not HV) applied to the inverter if the car is in
>the ACC position.
>
>(5) Is the HV/12VDC converter energized in the ACC position?
>
>(6) Is the HV/12VDC converter energized when the car is charging?
>
>(7) During start up, does the car report warnings and faults
>separately?
>
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

[ROBERT via EV]

Thanks, you answered all the question very clearly.  I still need some 
clarification on #7.  Most industrial monitoring and alarm systems prioritize 
faults.  A warning is a malfunction that does not stop the process.  A fault 
will stop some action.  Most ICE cars have a Engine Check Light.  When the 
Check Engine Light illuminates, the car will usually continue to operate; 
however, an error code is stored in the computer.  The same applies to the 
"idiot lights" on a car.  An ICE car shuts down if a major fault occurs.  With 
an EV inverter, it is possible for an IGBT to overheat and the car could be put 
in a lower performance mode but continue to operate.  The car could illuminate 
a warning light is this case.  In addition, an EV inverter could blow an IGBT 
or have a shutdown temperature setting.  Since the auxiliary battery is still 
operational, a fault light could illuminate.  Does an EV have two lights and 
does it prioritize malfunctions?



From: EV <ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org> on behalf of Cor van de Water via EV 
<ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 7:14 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

Robert,
(1+2) All factory EVs and conversions that I have seen have an ACC key
position.
This position typically does the same as in an ICE: it does not power up
the drivetrain, it only enables some 12V loads such as radio, lights and
cig lighter to name a few, but the aux battery is not charged and
extended time spent in ACC mode will run down the aux battery.
You could modify the ACC mode to engage a relay that powers a battery
charger (off the main pack) to recharge the aux battery. You shift the
risk from running down the aux to the main pack.
AC or heater are typically not enabled in ACC

In case I mis-interpreted your question: if you want to know if the main
pack can be charged in ACC mode then yes - main pack charging is
typically possible in ALL vehicle modes except when "Ready to drive".
Even if the car is off, if you plug in the charger it will typically
power up enough of the car to charge the main pack and also keep the aux
battery maintained.
Some cars allow heating/cooling of the car (even remotely controlled)
and this is very useful when already plugged in to charge the main pack.
Car does not need to be in ACC mode to do this for the production EVs
that have this feature. Conversions typically need to be "Ready" before
allowing heating or A/C.

(3) Since the inverter is not powered in ACC mode, you do not depress
the brake. In fact, *not* braking while pushing the Power button is how
you put the car in ACC mode. If you brake and push Power, then the car
starts to "Ready".

(4) I don't know for sure, it makes no sense to apply 12V to the
inverter when it is not used, so I expect not.

(5) No
(6) Yes
(7) What do you mean separately? The software runs through a list of
checks. Anything that does not check out and is worthy of reporting gets
reported, so the reports are typically coming in one after the other but
due to the speed of the software, it may appear to the human eye as if
they all happen at the same time. Most reports are not for immediate
diagnosis anyway, just to give a go/nogo indication and then you can
connect a tool to browse through the reported issue and read them one by
one and deal with each one.

Hope this clarifies,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com
Proxim - Wireless Broadband, Backhaul Solutions and Access 
...<http://www.proxim.com/>
www.proxim.com
Proxim Wireless offers licensed and unlicensed point to point, backhaul, 
bridge, point to multipoint, wireless broadband and wireless access points.



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unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of ROBERT via EV
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 5:15 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] EV Start Up

I ask the question in a previous post "does anyone know the start up
sequence for an EV".  As I have seen in past posting the subject was
very quickly changed to another subject. In this case, a heater burn up
issue for the Think City Heater.  Please do not do this again.  Please,
respect the post.  Thanks.

I will try again with very specific questions.

(1) How do you put an EV in the auxiliaries only position?  Does it have
an ACC position as on older ICE car with a key?

(2) When in the ACC only position, can the battery charger be energized?
Can the

Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

[John Lussmyer via EV]

On Thu Dec 22 20:23:00 PST 2016 bhensle...@msn.com said:
>Yes, each vehicle is different.  Tell me the differences.

I can only tell you how MY conversion works.
1) Yes, it has an ACC position. (normal car key ignition switch).
2) Heater yes, don't have AC.  (Heater is 2KW off main pack)
3) Not relevant for mine.
4) Drive power is NOT enabled until you bump the key to the Start position for 
a second.
5) Mine does turn on the DC-DC to keep the 12v battery charged from the main 
pack.
6) Yes and No.  I actually have a very small DC-DC that is ALWAYS on.  Keeps 
the 12V battery charged even when car is just sitting.  (too many parasitic 
loads, radio, controller, AH meter, etc..)
7) Warnings/Faults are reported as they happen.

--
Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! 
http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250
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Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Robert,
(1+2) All factory EVs and conversions that I have seen have an ACC key
position.
This position typically does the same as in an ICE: it does not power up
the drivetrain, it only enables some 12V loads such as radio, lights and
cig lighter to name a few, but the aux battery is not charged and
extended time spent in ACC mode will run down the aux battery.
You could modify the ACC mode to engage a relay that powers a battery
charger (off the main pack) to recharge the aux battery. You shift the
risk from running down the aux to the main pack.
AC or heater are typically not enabled in ACC

In case I mis-interpreted your question: if you want to know if the main
pack can be charged in ACC mode then yes - main pack charging is
typically possible in ALL vehicle modes except when "Ready to drive".
Even if the car is off, if you plug in the charger it will typically
power up enough of the car to charge the main pack and also keep the aux
battery maintained.
Some cars allow heating/cooling of the car (even remotely controlled)
and this is very useful when already plugged in to charge the main pack.
Car does not need to be in ACC mode to do this for the production EVs
that have this feature. Conversions typically need to be "Ready" before
allowing heating or A/C.

(3) Since the inverter is not powered in ACC mode, you do not depress
the brake. In fact, *not* braking while pushing the Power button is how
you put the car in ACC mode. If you brake and push Power, then the car
starts to "Ready".

(4) I don't know for sure, it makes no sense to apply 12V to the
inverter when it is not used, so I expect not.

(5) No
(6) Yes
(7) What do you mean separately? The software runs through a list of
checks. Anything that does not check out and is worthy of reporting gets
reported, so the reports are typically coming in one after the other but
due to the speed of the software, it may appear to the human eye as if
they all happen at the same time. Most reports are not for immediate
diagnosis anyway, just to give a go/nogo indication and then you can
connect a tool to browse through the reported issue and read them one by
one and deal with each one.

Hope this clarifies,

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of ROBERT via EV
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 5:15 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] EV Start Up

I ask the question in a previous post "does anyone know the start up
sequence for an EV".  As I have seen in past posting the subject was
very quickly changed to another subject. In this case, a heater burn up
issue for the Think City Heater.  Please do not do this again.  Please,
respect the post.  Thanks.

I will try again with very specific questions.

(1) How do you put an EV in the auxiliaries only position?  Does it have
an ACC position as on older ICE car with a key?

(2) When in the ACC only position, can the battery charger be energized?
Can the AC or heater be energized?

(3) Do you need to have the brake pedal depressed to energize the
inverter?  I think this is required to depress the START button.

(4) Is logic power (not HV) applied to the inverter if the car is in the
ACC position.

(5) Is the HV/12VDC converter energized in the ACC position?

(6) Is the HV/12VDC converter energized when the car is charging?

(7) During start up, does the car report warnings and faults separately?



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Re: [EVDL] EV Start Up

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Your questions are clear but your context is not. Are you asking
- what mass produced EVs do in general?
- what a specific EV does?
- what the generally assumed best practices are?
- what is physically required?

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "ROBERT via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
To: "ev@lists.evdl.org" <ev@lists.evdl.org>
Cc:
Sent: 22-Dec-16 5:14:33 PM
Subject: [EVDL] EV Start Up

I ask the question in a previous post "does anyone know the start up 
sequence for an EV".  As I have seen in past posting the subject was 
very quickly changed to another subject. In this case, a heater burn up 
issue for the Think City Heater.  Please do not do this again.  Please, 
respect the post.  Thanks.


I will try again with very specific questions.

(1) How do you put an EV in the auxiliaries only position?  Does it 
have an ACC position as on older ICE car with a key?


(2) When in the ACC only position, can the battery charger be 
energized?  Can the AC or heater be energized?


(3) Do you need to have the brake pedal depressed to energize the 
inverter?  I think this is required to depress the START button.


(4) Is logic power (not HV) applied to the inverter if the car is in 
the ACC position.


(5) Is the HV/12VDC converter energized in the ACC position?

(6) Is the HV/12VDC converter energized when the car is charging?

(7) During start up, does the car report warnings and faults 
separately?




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[EVDL] EV Start Up

[John Lussmyer via EV]

Specifically, WHICH EV.
A conversion - would depend on how the conversion was built.
Each OEM vehicle is slightly different.

On Thu Dec 22 17:14:33 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>I ask the question in a previous post "does anyone know the start up sequence 
>for an EV".  As I have seen in past posting the subject was very quickly 
>changed to another subject. In this case, a heater burn up issue for the Think 
>City Heater.  Please do not do this again.  Please, respect the post.  Thanks.
>
>I will try again with very specific questions.
>
>(1) How do you put an EV in the auxiliaries only position?  Does it have an 
>ACC position as on older ICE car with a key?
>
>(2) When in the ACC only position, can the battery charger be energized?  Can 
>the AC or heater be energized?
>
>(3) Do you need to have the brake pedal depressed to energize the inverter?  I 
>think this is required to depress the START button.
>
>(4) Is logic power (not HV) applied to the inverter if the car is in the ACC 
>position.
>
>(5) Is the HV/12VDC converter energized in the ACC position?
>
>(6) Is the HV/12VDC converter energized when the car is charging?
>
>(7) During start up, does the car report warnings and faults separately?


--

Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! 
http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250

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[EVDL] EV Start Up

[ROBERT via EV]

I ask the question in a previous post "does anyone know the start up sequence 
for an EV".  As I have seen in past posting the subject was very quickly 
changed to another subject. In this case, a heater burn up issue for the Think 
City Heater.  Please do not do this again.  Please, respect the post.  Thanks.

I will try again with very specific questions.

(1) How do you put an EV in the auxiliaries only position?  Does it have an ACC 
position as on older ICE car with a key?

(2) When in the ACC only position, can the battery charger be energized?  Can 
the AC or heater be energized?

(3) Do you need to have the brake pedal depressed to energize the inverter?  I 
think this is required to depress the START button.

(4) Is logic power (not HV) applied to the inverter if the car is in the ACC 
position.

(5) Is the HV/12VDC converter energized in the ACC position?

(6) Is the HV/12VDC converter energized when the car is charging?

(7) During start up, does the car report warnings and faults separately?



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