Re: One subject

2012-06-11 Thread Pierz
On Monday, June 11, 2012 12:20:06 PM UTC+10, Brent wrote: On 6/10/2012 6:12 PM, Pierz wrote: I'm starting this as a new thread rather than continuing under 'QTI and eternal torment', where this idea came up, because it's really a new topic. It seems to me an obvious corollary of comp

Re: QTI and eternal torment

2012-06-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 10 Jun 2012, at 22:57, David Nyman wrote: On 10 June 2012 17:26, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I am not sure I understand your problem with that simultaneity. The arithmetical relations are out of time. It would not make sense to say that they are simultaneously true, because

Re: QTI and eternal torment

2012-06-11 Thread meekerdb
On 6/11/2012 6:09 AM, David Nyman wrote: On 11 June 2012 13:04, Bruno Marchalmarc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Why do you think that pure indexicality (self-reference) is not enough? It seems clear to me that from the current state of any universal machine, it will look like a special moment is chosen

Re: Questions about simulations, emulations, etc.

2012-06-11 Thread meekerdb
On 6/11/2012 7:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Does it imply that we have an infinite number of levels between mind and physics? You can say that. Imagine yourself in front of the UD. By the invariance of the first person experience for the delays, you have to take into account all computations

Re: QTI and eternal torment

2012-06-11 Thread Stephen P. King
On 6/11/2012 8:04 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 10 Jun 2012, at 22:57, David Nyman wrote: On 10 June 2012 17:26, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I am not sure I understand your problem with that simultaneity. The arithmetical relations are out of time. It would not make sense to say

Re: QTI and eternal torment

2012-06-11 Thread David Nyman
On 11 June 2012 16:27, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: That seems confused. The theory is that 'you' are some set of those states. If you introduce an external 'knower' you've lost the explanatory function of the theory. Well, I'm referring to Hoyle's idea, which explicitly introduces

Re: free will and mathematics

2012-06-11 Thread R AM
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: OK, for the sake of the argument, let's suppose that you ate spaghetti because that's what you liked at that moment. Do you think you could have done

Re: free will and mathematics

2012-06-11 Thread R AM
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 7:34 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: The answer must be relative to our (imperfect) knowledge. Since that knowledge is not sufficient to predict what he would do, we say Yes, he could have done otherwise. In the same way we may say, I know him well and he's

Re: free will and mathematics

2012-06-11 Thread RMahoney
On Monday, June 11, 2012 10:45:16 AM UTC-5, RAM wrote: But what I'm saying here is not ontological determinism but in fact, about the subjective experience. I'm defending that we cannot imagine ourselves in exactly the same subjective situation and still think that we could have done

Re: modal logic's meta axiom

2012-06-11 Thread Russell Standish
On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 01:33:48PM +0200, Bruno Marchal wrote: In fact we have p/p for any p. If you were correct we would have []p for any p. This is what I thought you said the meta-axiom stated? How else do we get p/[]p for Kripke semantics? --

Re: Autonomy?

2012-06-11 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 5:06 AM, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote: Stathis: in my simplicity: free is free and pseudo means not really. So: pseudo-free will is not free (will), only something similar. Restricted by circumstances. Or so. I allow into my 'deterministically' constrained free

Re: One subject

2012-06-11 Thread Pierz
On Monday, June 11, 2012 10:46:42 PM UTC+10, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 11 Jun 2012, at 03:12, Pierz wrote: I'm starting this as a new thread rather than continuing under 'QTI and eternal torment', where this idea came up, because it's really a new topic. It seems to me an

Re: Questions about simulations, emulations, etc.

2012-06-11 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 11 Jun 2012, at 15:14, David Nyman wrote: On 11 June 2012 13:19, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Yes worse. I am very sorry for my random spelling, which becomes easily phonetical when I type too fast. It's only phonetical if you pronounce worth and worse the same way ;-)