RE: subjective reality

2005-08-17 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Lee Corbin > > Colin writes > > > > So, for subjective experience: Yes it can be an illusion, > > > > but a systematically erroneous, relentlessly repeatable > > > > illusion driven by measurement of the natural world where > > > > its errors are not important - .ie. not mission fatal to the > >

RE: "Naive Realism" and QM

2005-08-17 Thread Lee Corbin
Russel writes > > why *probabilities* emerge from squared amplitudes, I couldn't > > tell you. I'm not sure that anyone knows---as I recall, many > > this is related to the basis problem of the MWI (though > > Deutsch and others say that decoherence takes care of > > everything, though). > > Th

RE: subjective reality

2005-08-17 Thread Lee Corbin
Colin writes > > > So, for subjective experience: Yes it can be an illusion, > > > but a systematically erroneous, relentlessly repeatable > > > illusion driven by measurement of the natural world where > > > its errors are not important - .ie. not mission fatal to the > > > observer. Experiential

RE: subjective reality

2005-08-17 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Lee Corbin > > Colin writes > > > ACCURACY > > Extent to which a measurement matches an international standard. > > > > REPEATABILITY > > Extent to which a measurement matches its own prior measurement. > > > > For example the SICK DME 2000 laser distance measurement instrument > > has an accura

Re: "Naive Realism" and QM

2005-08-17 Thread Russell Standish
On Wed, Aug 17, 2005 at 04:30:21PM -0700, Lee Corbin wrote: > > Your point about the squared modulus is well taken. Just why > *probabilities* emerge from squared amplitudes, I couldn't > tell you. I'm not sure that anyone knows---as I recall, many > this is related to the basis problem of the MWI

"Naive Realism" and QM

2005-08-17 Thread Lee Corbin
Godfrey writes > As much as I sympathise with your call for preservation of naive > realism Good heavens! How many times must it be said? What is going on with people? There is a *clear* definition of "naive realism". Try the almost always extremely reliable wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.or

Re: subjective reality

2005-08-17 Thread kurtleegod
Hi Bruno, Thanks for your assent on this. I am sure that CT and AR are needed, at some point, for your really outrageous conclusions. But I am sure you agree that they cannot save them if the "Yes doctor" presumption can be shot down by itself. Right? This would save me from having to read

Re: subjective reality

2005-08-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi Godfray, I must leave my office, and I let you know just my first impression of your last post. First I hope you will accept my apologies for having skip unintentionally your demand for my hypotheses. I am saying this because I actually think that it is the real interesting and original

Re: subjective reality

2005-08-17 Thread kurtleegod
Hi Bruno, Thanks for indulging my skepticism. I think I am getting a clearer picture of what you are up to. There is only one point in our exchange below to which I would like to respond and than I have some unrelated comments. I will erase the rest of the conversation to which I don't have

Re: subjective reality

2005-08-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
Le 16-août-05, à 04:59, John M a écrit : (The original went only to Bruno's addressw) To: Bruno Marchal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, everything-list@eskimo.com In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bruno, your po

Re: subjective reality

2005-08-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
Chris Peck: But subjectivity is certain. Lee: Since the only thing that is certain is "I think therefore I am" or "...I am thinking", it's not a stretch to say that no worthwhile knowledge is certain. All knowledge is conjectural. To be fair, you should google for "Pan Critical Rational

Re: subjective reality

2005-08-17 Thread kurtleegod
Hi Lee, As much as I sympathise with your call for preservation of naive realism and agree entirely with your opinion on the demerits of introspection I have to take issue with half of what you say below: -Original Message- From: Lee Corbin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ... >I'm not too sure

Re: subjective reality

2005-08-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi Godfrey, Le 15-août-05, à 21:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : [GK] The point I am trying to make is that a lot of your back and forth discourse on the 1st versus the 3rd person misses the 2nd person in between them! More specifically: I am quite convinced that one good part of what we cal

Re: subjective reality

2005-08-17 Thread John M
Russell wrote: *I'm using the term "concrete reality" to refer to what some people call "common sense reality", that there is stuff out there, independent of us as observers. Sometimes I might use "objective reality" for the 1st person plural reality that the AP guarantees for subsets of observers

RE: subjective reality

2005-08-17 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
Lee Corbin writes: The realist does *not* want the world to be "as it seems to be". No, the realist focuses on the fact that a wholly independent world "out there" exists and existed before he did. In fact, it is the subjectivists who start calling their own unassailable introspections "realit

RE: subjective reality

2005-08-17 Thread Lee Corbin
Colin writes > ACCURACY > Extent to which a measurement matches and international standard. > > REPEATABILITY > Extent to which a measurement matches its own prior measurement. > > For example the SICK DME 200 laser distance measurement instrument > has an accuracy of about 10mm over 150m but a

RE: subjective reality

2005-08-17 Thread Lee Corbin
Chris writes > I admire Descartes as a man [I would have said scientist and mathematician], > not so much as a philosopher. I admire his method more than his results, > he looked inwards. He also did a tremendous amount of good work in science and math. > Like Hume, Berkley , Locke and countless

RE: subjective reality

2005-08-17 Thread Lee Corbin
Stephen writes > I would like to refute your [Lee's] "common sense Realism" and > show that it is missing the most salient point of Realism: that > it not have any "cracks" through which anything "unreal" might > slip. An interestingly stated goal: it *sounds* as though you've written as preamble