Re: Re: Re: Re: The pro-life paradox
Hi Richard Ruquist That is specified in my Living Will [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/21/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-12-20, 14:59:18 Subject: Re: Re: Re: The pro-life paradox Roger, Your pro-life stance includes the doctor keeping you alive at all costs whereas if you really believed in an afterlife, you are better off dead. Richard On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: The pro-life paradox
Hi Bruno Marchal Just as in jurisprudence, sometimes there are no easy answers. I am a Christian, and so oppose euthanasia as contrary to the Ten Commandments. But others presumably do not share that belief. And even I might break the commandment (to my peril) in exceptional cases. It is not for me to judge, it wouldn't matter anyway. That's up to God, IMHO. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/21/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-12-21, 10:44:44 Subject: Re: The pro-life paradox On 20 Dec 2012, at 18:41, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal There is a gray area called quality of life. OK. Nice. Should I take this as a statement that there are some cases where you would not oppose to euthanasia? Everything of value, all colors, are in that gray area, I think. Bruno [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/20/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-12-20, 05:12:10 Subject: Re: The pro-life paradox On 19 Dec 2012, at 17:01, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 17 Dec 2012, at 17:49, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King I define good as that which enhances life and evil as that which diminishes it. Is pro-life activism enhancing life or diminishing life? Some pro-life doctor are against euthanasia, even passive euthanasia, with the result that they transform dying patient into machines. But most of them are naive believer, and as such, they disbelieve comp, and so their pro-life activity begins to be contradictory. The question is: does an artificial, or even virtual body, enhance life or suppress life? Bruno That's tricky. The aristotelean pro-life doctor does not believe she/he is turning the dying patient into a machine. That Doctor thinks they are saving the universe from one of its fundamental properties: death, entropy. I don't know if most of them are naive believer in the sense that most doctors in this domain are well aware that it is a loosing battle, and I guess outing yourself as pro-euthanasia carries some heavy implications in your day to day practice, interaction, and judgement from peers, directors, and employers. I guess, most would be cooler with this if they could. So naive believer, yeah maybe some, but more I'd guess live in fear of getting their voice heard. To tackle the question straight-on: 1) depends on manufacturer, market, price and warranty conditions, and the local universe. You did remember to submit the appropriate forms before rental of Bruno, didn't you? I say this, because it seems like sometimes you forget with this kind of question :) I am not sure I get the point. Mine was only that the pro-life doctor will transform people into machine (as they do already somehow), and that can contradict the general anti-mechanist prejudice of many pro-life activists. 2) Heidegger was just joking. Nobody was thrown; he just got a bit of nausea after signing all the soul-body binding contracts and wants modification of warranty terms. I don't know whether his appeal was heard by the courts, any of you? Lol. But still don't see the point. keep in mind that logicians are simple mind :) 3) But after flying for platonic infinities through every possible universe as a disembodied soul eye with infinite memory at any speed you wished, you would go sign up for another round to be entangled with some strange universe physically again and push the format disk button once again and agree to all constraints, just for novelty's sake and say sh*t, it's boring here... but I am no chicken, I choose a local universe where aristoteleans are winning, just to make it more interesting, because the platonic localities are too much already like here...also, I'll choose one where matter is really convincing and makes us unable to define life properly, so that I can pose this question in a forum someday, and confuse the others a bit, hehe. OK. But for once, my question was terrestrial. Of course such question makes less global sense in Platonia, but can still make sense locally, even there. Bruno :) Cowboy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email
Re: Re: The pro-life paradox
Hi Bruno Marchal There is a gray area called quality of life. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/20/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-12-20, 05:12:10 Subject: Re: The pro-life paradox On 19 Dec 2012, at 17:01, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 17 Dec 2012, at 17:49, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King I define good as that which enhances life and evil as that which diminishes it. Is pro-life activism enhancing life or diminishing life? Some pro-life doctor are against euthanasia, even passive euthanasia, with the result that they transform dying patient into machines. But most of them are naive believer, and as such, they disbelieve comp, and so their pro-life activity begins to be contradictory. The question is: does an artificial, or even virtual body, enhance life or suppress life? Bruno That's tricky. The aristotelean pro-life doctor does not believe she/he is turning the dying patient into a machine. That Doctor thinks they are saving the universe from one of its fundamental properties: death, entropy. I don't know if most of them are naive believer in the sense that most doctors in this domain are well aware that it is a loosing battle, and I guess outing yourself as pro-euthanasia carries some heavy implications in your day to day practice, interaction, and judgement from peers, directors, and employers. I guess, most would be cooler with this if they could. So naive believer, yeah maybe some, but more I'd guess live in fear of getting their voice heard. To tackle the question straight-on: 1) depends on manufacturer, market, price and warranty conditions, and the local universe. You did remember to submit the appropriate forms before rental of Bruno, didn't you? I say this, because it seems like sometimes you forget with this kind of question :) I am not sure I get the point. Mine was only that the pro-life doctor will transform people into machine (as they do already somehow), and that can contradict the general anti-mechanist prejudice of many pro-life activists. 2) Heidegger was just joking. Nobody was thrown; he just got a bit of nausea after signing all the soul-body binding contracts and wants modification of warranty terms. I don't know whether his appeal was heard by the courts, any of you? Lol. But still don't see the point. keep in mind that logicians are simple mind :) 3) But after flying for platonic infinities through every possible universe as a disembodied soul eye with infinite memory at any speed you wished, you would go sign up for another round to be entangled with some strange universe physically again and push the format disk button once again and agree to all constraints, just for novelty's sake and say sh*t, it's boring here... but I am no chicken, I choose a local universe where aristoteleans are winning, just to make it more interesting, because the platonic localities are too much already like here...also, I'll choose one where matter is really convincing and makes us unable to define life properly, so that I can pose this question in a forum someday, and confuse the others a bit, hehe. OK. But for once, my question was terrestrial. Of course such question makes less global sense in Platonia, but can still make sense locally, even there. Bruno :) Cowboy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: The pro-life paradox
Roger, I am amused the a believer like you does not factor in your thinking the existence of the afterlife. Richard On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal There is a gray area called quality of life. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/20/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-12-20, 05:12:10 Subject: Re: The pro-life paradox On 19 Dec 2012, at 17:01, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 17 Dec 2012, at 17:49, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King I define good as that which enhances life and evil as that which diminishes it. Is pro-life activism enhancing life or diminishing life? Some pro-life doctor are against euthanasia, even passive euthanasia, with the result that they transform dying patient into machines. But most of them are naive believer, and as such, they disbelieve comp, and so their pro-life activity begins to be contradictory. The question is: does an artificial, or even virtual body, enhance life or suppress life? Bruno That's tricky. The aristotelean pro-life doctor does not believe she/he is turning the dying patient into a machine. That Doctor thinks they are saving the universe from one of its fundamental properties: death, entropy. I don't know if most of them are naive believer in the sense that most doctors in this domain are well aware that it is a loosing battle, and I guess outing yourself as pro-euthanasia carries some heavy implications in your day to day practice, interaction, and judgement from peers, directors, and employers. I guess, most would be cooler with this if they could. So naive believer, yeah maybe some, but more I'd guess live in fear of getting their voice heard. To tackle the question straight-on: 1) depends on manufacturer, market, price and warranty conditions, and the local universe. You did remember to submit the appropriate forms before rental of Bruno, didn't you? I say this, because it seems like sometimes you forget with this kind of question :) I am not sure I get the point. Mine was only that the pro-life doctor will transform people into machine (as they do already somehow), and that can contradict the general anti-mechanist prejudice of many pro-life activists. 2) Heidegger was just joking. Nobody was thrown; he just got a bit of nausea after signing all the soul-body binding contracts and wants modification of warranty terms. I don't know whether his appeal was heard by the courts, any of you? Lol. But still don't see the point. keep in mind that logicians are simple mind :) 3) But after flying for platonic infinities through every possible universe as a disembodied soul eye with infinite memory at any speed you wished, you would go sign up for another round to be entangled with some strange universe physically again and push the format disk button once again and agree to all constraints, just for novelty's sake and say sh*t, it's boring here... but I am no chicken, I choose a local universe where aristoteleans are winning, just to make it more interesting, because the platonic localities are too much already like here...also, I'll choose one where matter is really convincing and makes us unable to define life properly, so that I can pose this question in a forum someday, and confuse the others a bit, hehe. OK. But for once, my question was terrestrial. Of course such question makes less global sense in Platonia, but can still make sense locally, even there. Bruno :) Cowboy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Re: The pro-life paradox
Hi Richard Ruquist How so ? [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/20/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-12-20, 12:45:56 Subject: Re: Re: The pro-life paradox Roger, I am amused the a believer like you does not factor in your thinking the existence of the afterlife. Richard On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal There is a gray area called quality of life. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/20/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-12-20, 05:12:10 Subject: Re: The pro-life paradox On 19 Dec 2012, at 17:01, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 11:43 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 17 Dec 2012, at 17:49, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King I define good as that which enhances life and evil as that which diminishes it. Is pro-life activism enhancing life or diminishing life? Some pro-life doctor are against euthanasia, even passive euthanasia, with the result that they transform dying patient into machines. But most of them are naive believer, and as such, they disbelieve comp, and so their pro-life activity begins to be contradictory. The question is: does an artificial, or even virtual body, enhance life or suppress life? Bruno That's tricky. The aristotelean pro-life doctor does not believe she/he is turning the dying patient into a machine. That Doctor thinks they are saving the universe from one of its fundamental properties: death, entropy. I don't know if most of them are naive believer in the sense that most doctors in this domain are well aware that it is a loosing battle, and I guess outing yourself as pro-euthanasia carries some heavy implications in your day to day practice, interaction, and judgement from peers, directors, and employers. I guess, most would be cooler with this if they could. So naive believer, yeah maybe some, but more I'd guess live in fear of getting their voice heard. To tackle the question straight-on: 1) depends on manufacturer, market, price and warranty conditions, and the local universe. You did remember to submit the appropriate forms before rental of Bruno, didn't you? I say this, because it seems like sometimes you forget with this kind of question :) I am not sure I get the point. Mine was only that the pro-life doctor will transform people into machine (as they do already somehow), and that can contradict the general anti-mechanist prejudice of many pro-life activists. 2) Heidegger was just joking. Nobody was thrown; he just got a bit of nausea after signing all the soul-body binding contracts and wants modification of warranty terms. I don't know whether his appeal was heard by the courts, any of you? Lol. But still don't see the point. keep in mind that logicians are simple mind :) 3) But after flying for platonic infinities through every possible universe as a disembodied soul eye with infinite memory at any speed you wished, you would go sign up for another round to be entangled with some strange universe physically again and push the format disk button once again and agree to all constraints, just for novelty's sake and say sh*t, it's boring here... but I am no chicken, I choose a local universe where aristoteleans are winning, just to make it more interesting, because the platonic localities are too much already like here...also, I'll choose one where matter is really convincing and makes us unable to define life properly, so that I can pose this question in a forum someday, and confuse the others a bit, hehe. OK. But for once, my question was terrestrial. Of course such question makes less global sense in Platonia, but can still make sense locally, even there. Bruno :) Cowboy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list
Re: Re: Re: The pro-life paradox
Roger, Your pro-life stance includes the doctor keeping you alive at all costs whereas if you really believed in an afterlife, you are better off dead. Richard On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: The pro-life paradox
Hi Alberto G. Corona And as the Bible says, the wages of sin is death. [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/19/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Alberto G. Corona Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-12-19, 07:04:11 Subject: Re: The pro-life paradox Dear Bruno, Excuse if i don? address your question. I define good as that which enhances life and evil as that which diminishes it That is also my definition. Going a step further, good is tautological and absolute, in the same way that is evil: ?hat is good lives, What is evil, perishes, The evil may recover itself from past defeats by ever recreating itself in new forms. The good stay and get transmitted from generation to generation by our genes and our memes. So it is in our nous, accessible to everyone. 2012/12/19 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be On 17 Dec 2012, at 17:49, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stephen P. King ? I define good as that which enhances life and evil as that which diminishes it. Is pro-life activism enhancing life or diminishing life? Some pro-life doctor are against euthanasia, even passive euthanasia, with the result that they transform dying patient into machines. But most of them are naive believer, and as such, they disbelieve comp, and so their pro-life activity begins to be contradictory. The question is: ?oes an artificial, or even virtual body, enhance life or suppress life? Bruno ? ? [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 12/17/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen ? - Receiving the following content - From: Stephen P. King Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-12-16, 14:31:22 Subject: Re: Moral evaluations of harm are instant and emotional,brainstudyshows On 12/16/2012 9:49 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: My standard comment is that the Democrats will say that they are going to do good things and not do them while Republicans will do bad things and then say that they are good. Hi Craig, ?? To me it boils down to a willingness to be objective. If one defines a standard of measure of good and bad, then one must apply it consistently. Otherwise there is no such thing as good' or 'bad. Tribalism comes with a shiftable measure of good and bad (stealing from non-members of the tribe is OK, stealing from tribe members is bad, for example), this makes tribalism bad, IMHO, not matter what kind of tribalism it is! -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
