Re: Is emergence real or just in models?

2002-11-28 Thread Tim May
On Wednesday, November 27, 2002, at 11:42 PM, Eric Hawthorne wrote: I'm in the camp that thinks that emergent systems are real phenomena, and that eventually, objective criteria would be able to be established that would allow us to say definitively whether an emerged system existed in some t

RE: Re: The number 8. A TOE?

2002-11-28 Thread Marchal Bruno
Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> BG: You seem to be making points about the limitations >> >of the folk-psychology notion of identity, rather than about the actual >> >nature of the universe... >> >> >> BM: Then you should disagree at some point of the reasoning, for the >> reasoning is

Is classical teleportation possible?

2002-11-28 Thread Stephen Paul King
Dear Bruno, I followed the UDA link and read the post and fell flat on my face when I read the term "classical teleportation". I would like to know what is the theoretical basis of a belief that "classical teleportation" is even possible? I can accept TM emulability for the sake of the argumen

Re: Is classical teleportation possible?

2002-11-28 Thread Stephen Paul King
Dear Bruno and Friends, I found these statements: http://www.imaph.tu-bs.de/qi/concepts.html#TP Teleportation with purely classical means is impossible, which is precisely the observation making the theory of Quantum Information a new branch of Information Theory. This makes it all the more

Re: Is classical teleportation possible?

2002-11-28 Thread scerir
Dear S.P.K., try this one, there is a collection of possible and impossible machines, classical versus quantic. s. Quantum Information Theory - an Invitation http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0101061 Authors: R. F. Werner Comments: 51 pages, 12 Figures, LaTeX+dvips. Will appear in a volume "Quantum

Re: Is emergence real or just in models?

2002-11-28 Thread Russell Standish
Tim May wrote: > > OK, the example. > > Go. > > Black and white stones, with rules for moves that can be written on a > small index card. Similar to a cellular automaton, though not as > general. > > And yet from simple rules on a simple grid, emergent properties: > > * "thickness" (a measur

Re: Algorithmic Revolution?

2002-11-28 Thread Russell Standish
Colin Hales wrote: > Here is another possible confusion: ‘emergence’ as a descriptive artefact vs > ‘emergence’ as real layered behaviour in a real system. The wording > initially looks as if you think emergence is not real. The emergence is real > (whatever we consider real is!). Example: There ar

Re: The universe consists of patterns of arrangement of 0's and 1's?

2002-11-28 Thread jamikes
Dear Stepen, I did not say ">information is only information to a "recognizer" of such. <..." but can you imagine an "unrecognized" information, just floating around? it would take a special definition of information (maybe even weirder than Shannon's bit, the meaningless dot/sign if not assigned i

Re: Algorithmic Revolution?

2002-11-28 Thread James N Rose
> Colin Hales wrote: > > Here is another possible confusion: ‘emergence’ as a descriptive artefact vs > > ‘emergence’ as real layered behaviour in a real system. The wording > > initially looks as if you think emergence is not real. The emergence is real > > (whatever we consider real is!). Example