Re: What is a Löbian machine/number/combinator

On 20 April 2018 at 19:04, John Clark wrote: > I never got past the first line of Bruno’s post because he said: > > "Consider any Turing universal machinery, for example the programming > language c++” > > C++ is Turing complete but is not a Turing machine because machines

Re: Mind Uploading

Hi Bruno, >> Ok, but it is good to keep in mind that pagan gods were very different >> cultural constructs than the christian god. > > Yes, but with neoplatonism, the “pagan god” is the ONE, and it will influence > a lot Judaism, Christianity and Islam, not always with the "Second God" >

Re: What is a Löbian machine/number/combinator

On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 01:04:30PM -0400, John Clark wrote: > I never got past the first line of Bruno’s post because he said: > > "*Consider any Turing universal machinery, for example the programming > language c++*” > > C++ is Turing complete but is not a Turing machine because machines are >

Re: What is a Löbian machine/number/combinator

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 4:10 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > >> ​>​ >> And Turing explained exactly precisely how to make one of his machines in >> the real physical world > > > *​> ​Nope. Turing machines have infinite tapes.* Nope. Turing machines don’t need infinite tape,

Re: What is a Löbian machine/number/combinator

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 3:21 AM, Russell Standish wrote: > ​>>​ >> C++ is Turing complete but is not a Turing machine because machines are >> physical objects made of atoms but C++ is not nor is any language. > > > *​> ​Nor is a Turing machine for that matter.* ​ This

Re: Mind Uploading

On 4/21/2018 1:59 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: I like to define God, sometimes, by what you still believe in when you understand that the physical reality is a persistent illusion. A sufficiently persistent and shared illusion is about as good a reality as you can ask for. Brent -- You

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 9:07:37 PM UTC, smitra wrote: > > On 21-04-2018 21:44, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 3:12:48 PM UTC-4, smitra wrote: > > > >> On 20-04-2018 02:44, Brent Meeker wrote: > >>> On 4/19/2018 5:29 PM, smitra wrote: > One can a

Re: What is a Löbian machine/number/combinator

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 5:10 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > Turing machines don’t need infinite tape, they need sufficient tape, >> ​ >> if you start to run out of tape then add more, > > > *​> ​And for the general case there will be instances where you always > need more.*

Re: Entanglement

On 4/21/2018 3:35 PM, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 6:18:13 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: On 4/21/2018 12:42 PM, smitra wrote: > On 20-04-2018 04:54, Brent Meeker wrote: >> On 4/19/2018 7:28 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> On Friday,

Re: Entanglement

From: *smitra* > On 22-04-2018 00:18, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/21/2018 12:42 PM, smitra wrote: That's then an artifact of invoking an effective collapse of the wavefunction due to introducing the observer. The correlated

Re: What is a Löbian machine/number/combinator

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 5:27 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > ​> ​ > > *As​ ​​R​ussell said, an approximation of the Löbian machine can probably > be derived from Bruno's post in Prolog.* Then a ​"​ Löbian machine ​"​ is just a particular Turing Machine and there is nothing

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 7:27:33 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote: > > From: smitra < smi...@zonnet.nl > > > On 20-04-2018 04:54, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> So a measurement on one can, assuming some conserved quantity >> entangling them, will have an effect on the other, even if the all the >>

Re: Entanglement

On 4/21/2018 4:41 PM, smitra wrote: On 22-04-2018 00:18, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/21/2018 12:42 PM, smitra wrote: On 20-04-2018 04:54, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/19/2018 7:28 PM, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:13:20 AM UTC, Brent wrote: On 4/19/2018 6:39 PM,

Re: Entanglement

On 4/21/2018 8:39 PM, smitra wrote: On 22-04-2018 02:05, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/21/2018 4:45 PM, smitra wrote: Yes, collapse does imply non-locality, but note that in the MWI there is no collapse. There is no real "splitting of Worlds" in the MWI either, it's only an effective splitting

Re: What is a Löbian machine/number/combinator

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 08:08:50PM -0400, John Clark wrote: > On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 6:15 PM, Russell Standish > wrote: > > ​> ​ > > *Yes, of course a Loebian machine is a type of Turing machine.* > > > How can I determine if that particular Turing Machine is doing

Re: Entanglement

From: *smitra* > On 22-04-2018 04:51, Bruce Kellett wrote: From: SMITRA > I think the confusion arises from a failure to distinguish between 'local interactions' and 'non-local quantum

Re:: Entanglement

From: *smitra* > On 22-04-2018 06:08, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/21/2018 8:39 PM, smitra wrote: On 22-04-2018 02:05, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/21/2018 4:45 PM, smitra wrote: Yes, collapse does imply non-locality,

Re: Mind Uploading

On 19 April 2018 at 21:47, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 4/18/2018 11:50 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> On 19 April 2018 at 06:22, Brent Meeker wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 4/18/2018 8:51 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On 18 April 2018 at 23:57, Brent

Re: Entanglement

On 4/21/2018 12:12 PM, smitra wrote: On 20-04-2018 02:44, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/19/2018 5:29 PM, smitra wrote: One can a priori rule out any non-local effects using the fact that the dynamics as described by the Schrödinger equation is local. So, in any theory where there is no collapse

Re: What is a Löbian machine/number/combinator

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 11:00:32AM -0400, John Clark wrote: > > *I suspect he does know how to write a "Loebian machine" in Lisp or​ > > ​Prolog* > > > If so then a "Loebian machine" is just a type of Turing Machine and Bruno > has not discovered anything fundamental that Turing didn't know

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 6:18:13 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/21/2018 12:42 PM, smitra wrote: > > On 20-04-2018 04:54, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> On 4/19/2018 7:28 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > >> > >>> On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:13:20 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > >>> > >>> On

Re: Entanglement

From: *smitra* > On 20-04-2018 04:54, Brent Meeker wrote: So a measurement on one can, assuming some conserved quantity entangling them, will have an effect on the other, even if the all the details of measurement and decoherence are

Re: Entanglement

On 22-04-2018 01:27, Bruce Kellett wrote: From: SMITRA On 20-04-2018 04:54, Brent Meeker wrote: So a measurement on one can, assuming some conserved quantity entangling them, will have an effect on the other, even if the all the details of measurement and decoherence are

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 7:27:33 PM UTC-4, Bruce wrote: > > From: smitra < smi...@zonnet.nl > > > On 20-04-2018 04:54, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> So a measurement on one can, assuming some conserved quantity >> entangling them, will have an effect on the other, even if the all the >>

Re: What is a Löbian machine/number/combinator

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 6:15 PM, Russell Standish wrote: ​> ​ > *Yes, of course a Loebian machine is a type of Turing machine.* How can I determine if that particular Turing Machine is doing something fundamentally different from what every other Turing Machine is doing?

Re: Entanglement

From: *smitra* > On 22-04-2018 01:27, Bruce Kellett wrote: From: SMITRA > On 20-04-2018 04:54, Brent Meeker wrote: So a measurement on one can, assuming some conserved quantity

Re: Entanglement

On 22-04-2018 04:51, Bruce Kellett wrote: From: SMITRA On 22-04-2018 01:27, Bruce Kellett wrote: From: SMITRA On 20-04-2018 04:54, Brent Meeker wrote: So a measurement on one can, assuming some conserved quantity entangling them, will have an effect on

Re: Entanglement

On 22-04-2018 02:05, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/21/2018 4:45 PM, smitra wrote: Yes, collapse does imply non-locality, but note that in the MWI there is no collapse. There is no real "splitting of Worlds" in the MWI either, it's only an effective splitting that can be interpreted as an effective

Re: Entanglement

On 22-04-2018 06:08, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/21/2018 8:39 PM, smitra wrote: On 22-04-2018 02:05, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/21/2018 4:45 PM, smitra wrote: Yes, collapse does imply non-locality, but note that in the MWI there is no collapse. There is no real "splitting of Worlds" in the MWI

Re: Entanglement

On 4/21/2018 12:42 PM, smitra wrote: On 20-04-2018 04:54, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/19/2018 7:28 PM, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:13:20 AM UTC, Brent wrote: On 4/19/2018 6:39 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 12:44:04 AM UTC, Brent

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 10:35:45 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 6:18:13 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 4/21/2018 12:42 PM, smitra wrote: >> > On 20-04-2018 04:54, Brent Meeker wrote: >> >> On 4/19/2018 7:28 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 9:07:37 PM UTC, smitra wrote: > > On 21-04-2018 21:44, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 3:12:48 PM UTC-4, smitra wrote: > > > >> On 20-04-2018 02:44, Brent Meeker wrote: > >>> On 4/19/2018 5:29 PM, smitra wrote: > One can a

Re: Entanglement

On 22-04-2018 00:18, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/21/2018 12:42 PM, smitra wrote: On 20-04-2018 04:54, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/19/2018 7:28 PM, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:13:20 AM UTC, Brent wrote: On 4/19/2018 6:39 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday,

Re: Entanglement

On 22-04-2018 00:21, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 9:07:37 PM UTC, smitra wrote: On 21-04-2018 21:44, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 3:12:48 PM UTC-4, smitra wrote: On 20-04-2018 02:44, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/19/2018 5:29 PM,

Re: Entanglement

On 22-04-2018 01:00, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 9:07:37 PM UTC, smitra wrote: On 21-04-2018 21:44, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 3:12:48 PM UTC-4, smitra wrote: On 20-04-2018 02:44, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/19/2018 5:29 PM,

Re: Entanglement

On 4/21/2018 4:45 PM, smitra wrote: Yes, collapse does imply non-locality, but note that in the MWI there is no collapse. There is no real "splitting of Worlds" in the MWI either, it's only an effective splitting that can be interpreted as an effective collapse as observed in the various

Re: Entanglement

On 4/21/2018 9:45 PM, smitra wrote: On 22-04-2018 06:08, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/21/2018 8:39 PM, smitra wrote: On 22-04-2018 02:05, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/21/2018 4:45 PM, smitra wrote: Yes, collapse does imply non-locality, but note that in the MWI there is no collapse. There is no

Re: Entanglement

On 20-04-2018 02:44, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/19/2018 5:29 PM, smitra wrote: One can a priori rule out any non-local effects using the fact that the dynamics as described by the Schrödinger equation is local. So, in any theory where there is no collapse and everything follows from only the

Re: Mind Uploading

On 4/21/2018 3:31 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On 19 April 2018 at 21:47, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/18/2018 11:50 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On 19 April 2018 at 06:22, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/18/2018 8:51 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On 18 April 2018

Re: What is a Löbian machine/number/combinator

[I messed up and sent the unfinished email. Here's the rest...] On 21 April 2018 at 23:10, Telmo Menezes wrote: > On 21 April 2018 at 16:44, John Clark wrote: >> On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 4:10 AM, Telmo Menezes >> wrote: >>

Re: Mind Uploading

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 6:31 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: > *> Religions play a multitude of roles. For example to relieve suffering* With the exception of death itself religion has caused more misery in the world than anything in human history. > *> and provide meaning.*

Re: Entanglement

On 20-04-2018 02:58, Bruce Kellett wrote: From: SMITRA One can a priori rule out any non-local effects using the fact that the dynamics as described by the Schrödinger equation is local. That is false. The dynamics in the Schrödinger equation are given by the Hamiltonian.

Re: Entanglement

On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 3:12:48 PM UTC-4, smitra wrote: > > On 20-04-2018 02:44, Brent Meeker wrote: > > On 4/19/2018 5:29 PM, smitra wrote: > >> One can a priori rule out any non-local effects using the fact that > >> the dynamics as described by the Schrödinger equation is local. So,

Re: Entanglement

On 21-04-2018 21:44, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, April 21, 2018 at 3:12:48 PM UTC-4, smitra wrote: On 20-04-2018 02:44, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/19/2018 5:29 PM, smitra wrote: One can a priori rule out any non-local effects using the fact that the dynamics as described by

Re: Entanglement

On 20-04-2018 04:54, Brent Meeker wrote: On 4/19/2018 7:28 PM, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 2:13:20 AM UTC, Brent wrote: On 4/19/2018 6:39 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 12:44:04 AM UTC, Brent wrote: On 4/19/2018 5:29 PM, smitra

Re: What is a Löbian machine/number/combinator

On 21 April 2018 at 16:44, John Clark wrote: > On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 4:10 AM, Telmo Menezes > wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> And Turing explained exactly precisely how to make one of his machines in >>> the real physical world >> >> >> > >> Nope. Turing