Re: Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Doubt
On 21 Oct 2012, at 12:52, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle ...the uncertainty principle is inherent in the properties of all wave-like systems Formally yes, but the meaning of the uncertainty principle is very different according to the fact that a material substance is vibrating, (Classical Mechanics) or an amplitude of probability (Quantum Mechanics). Bruno Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/21/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-20, 15:10:09 Subject: Re: Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Doubt On Thursday, October 18, 2012 11:19:46 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 10/18/2012 2:16 PM, freqflyer07281972 wrote: Is anyone here aware of the following? http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/66654-heisenbergs-uncertainty-principle-in-doubt Does it have implications for MW interpretations of quantum physics? I'd love to see comments about this. Cheers, Dan -- Hi Dan, This article is rubbish. The writer does not understand the subtleties involved and does not understand that nothing like the tittle was found to be true. I agree. I see what they were trying to get at: Measurement can cause uncertainty but not all of the uncertainty. They leave open the question of what does cause the uncertainty - i.e. perhaps the very nature of quantum is uncertain or immeasurable. The problem of course is in the assumption we're just going to make a *weak* measurement that won't have an effect on it. Sigh. I'll just stand in the bathroom with you...you won't even know I'm here. You can't fool the fabric of the universe. You can spoof it maybe, but you can't hide from it entirely. Craig -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/F1tDWoWhmDEJ . To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Doubt
Hi Craig Weinberg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle ...the uncertainty principle is inherent in the properties of all wave-like systems Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/21/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-20, 15:10:09 Subject: Re: Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Doubt On Thursday, October 18, 2012 11:19:46 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 10/18/2012 2:16 PM, freqflyer07281972 wrote: Is anyone here aware of the following? http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/66654-heisenbergs-uncertainty-principle-in-doubt Does it have implications for MW interpretations of quantum physics? I'd love to see comments about this. Cheers, Dan -- Hi Dan, This article is rubbish. The writer does not understand the subtleties involved and does not understand that nothing like the tittle was found to be true. I agree. I see what they were trying to get at: Measurement can cause uncertainty but not all of the uncertainty. They leave open the question of what does cause the uncertainty - i.e. perhaps the very nature of quantum is uncertain or immeasurable. The problem of course is in the assumption we're just going to make a *weak* measurement that won't have an effect on it. Sigh. I'll just stand in the bathroom with you...you won't even know I'm here. You can't fool the fabric of the universe. You can spoof it maybe, but you can't hide from it entirely. Craig -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/F1tDWoWhmDEJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Doubt
On Thursday, October 18, 2012 11:19:46 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 10/18/2012 2:16 PM, freqflyer07281972 wrote: Is anyone here aware of the following? http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/66654-heisenbergs-uncertainty-principle-in-doubt Does it have implications for MW interpretations of quantum physics? I'd love to see comments about this. Cheers, Dan -- Hi Dan, This article is rubbish. The writer does not understand the subtleties involved and does not understand that nothing like the tittle was found to be true. I agree. I see what they were trying to get at: Measurement can cause uncertainty but not all of the uncertainty. They leave open the question of what does cause the uncertainty - i.e. perhaps the very nature of quantum is uncertain or immeasurable. The problem of course is in the assumption we're just going to make a *weak* measurement that won't have an effect on it. Sigh. I'll just stand in the bathroom with you...you won't even know I'm here. You can't fool the fabric of the universe. You can spoof it maybe, but you can't hide from it entirely. Craig -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/F1tDWoWhmDEJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Doubt
On 10/20/2012 3:10 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, October 18, 2012 11:19:46 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote: On 10/18/2012 2:16 PM, freqflyer07281972 wrote: Is anyone here aware of the following? http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/66654-heisenbergs-uncertainty-principle-in-doubt http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/66654-heisenbergs-uncertainty-principle-in-doubt Does it have implications for MW interpretations of quantum physics? I'd love to see comments about this. Cheers, Dan -- Hi Dan, This article is rubbish. The writer does not understand the subtleties involved and does not understand that nothing like the tittle was found to be true. I agree. I see what they were trying to get at: Measurement can cause uncertainty but not all of the uncertainty. They leave open the question of what does cause the uncertainty - i.e. perhaps the very nature of quantum is uncertain or immeasurable. The problem of course is in the assumption we're just going to make a *weak* measurement that won't have an effect on it. Sigh. I'll just stand in the bathroom with you...you won't even know I'm here. You can't fool the fabric of the universe. You can spoof it maybe, but you can't hide from it entirely. Craig Hi Craig, Uncertainty is in the geometric/statistical relationship between observables themselves. -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Doubt
Hi Richard Ruquist Don't take this too seriously, but my dislike of the idea of multiple universes makes me suggest that the other universes could be just potential or probable universes. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/19/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-18, 14:42:19 Subject: Re: Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Doubt Dan, I think the implication for MWI is that such weak measurements do not cause the universe to split into a different version for each possible quantum state. I also think that most of us are aware of these results. Richard On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 2:16 PM, freqflyer07281972 wrote: Is anyone here aware of the following? http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/66654-heisenbergs-uncertainty-principle-in-doubt Does it have implications for MW interpretations of quantum physics? I'd love to see comments about this. Cheers, Dan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/4BAboNjZ7DoJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Doubt
Is anyone here aware of the following? http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/66654-heisenbergs-uncertainty-principle-in-doubt Does it have implications for MW interpretations of quantum physics? I'd love to see comments about this. Cheers, Dan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/4BAboNjZ7DoJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Doubt
Dan, I think the implication for MWI is that such weak measurements do not cause the universe to split into a different version for each possible quantum state. I also think that most of us are aware of these results. Richard On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 2:16 PM, freqflyer07281972 thismindisbud...@gmail.com wrote: Is anyone here aware of the following? http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/66654-heisenbergs-uncertainty-principle-in-doubt Does it have implications for MW interpretations of quantum physics? I'd love to see comments about this. Cheers, Dan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/4BAboNjZ7DoJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Doubt
This must be what the Heisenberg compensators do in star trek. :-) Jason On 10/18/12, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: Dan, I think the implication for MWI is that such weak measurements do not cause the universe to split into a different version for each possible quantum state. I also think that most of us are aware of these results. Richard On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 2:16 PM, freqflyer07281972 thismindisbud...@gmail.com wrote: Is anyone here aware of the following? http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/66654-heisenbergs-uncertainty-principle-in-doubt Does it have implications for MW interpretations of quantum physics? I'd love to see comments about this. Cheers, Dan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/4BAboNjZ7DoJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Doubt
There was another article about this group's work back in September, at http://www.nature.com/news/quantum-uncertainty-not-all-in-the-measurement-1.11394-- it seems as though this is not really about contradicting the mathematical form of uncertainty in the equations of quantum mechanics, but rather about certain interpretations of uncertainty which say it's all induced by measurement. As Steinberg says in that article: 'Don't get too excited: the uncertainty principle still stands, says Steinberg: “In the end, there's no way you can know [both quantum states] accurately at the same time.” But the experiment shows that the act of measurement isn't always what causes the uncertainty. “If there's already a lot of uncertainty in the system, then there doesn't need to be any noise from the measurement at all,” he says.' Also see the abstract of a paper by Rozema et al (the main scientist they quoted in Dan's link) at http://physics.aps.org/synopsis-for/10.1103/PhysRevLett.109.100404 which says: When first taking quantum mechanics courses, students learn about Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle, which is often presented as a statement about the intrinsic uncertainty that a quantum system must possess. Yet Heisenberg originally formulated his principle in terms of the “observer effect”: a relationship between the precision of a measurement and the disturbance it creates, as when a photon measures an electron’s position. Although the former version is rigorously proven, the latter is less general and—as recently shown—mathematically incorrect. On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 2:16 PM, freqflyer07281972 thismindisbud...@gmail.com wrote: Is anyone here aware of the following? http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/66654-heisenbergs-uncertainty-principle-in-doubt Does it have implications for MW interpretations of quantum physics? I'd love to see comments about this. Cheers, Dan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/4BAboNjZ7DoJ. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Doubt
On 10/18/2012 2:16 PM, freqflyer07281972 wrote: Is anyone here aware of the following? http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/66654-heisenbergs-uncertainty-principle-in-doubt Does it have implications for MW interpretations of quantum physics? I'd love to see comments about this. Cheers, Dan -- Hi Dan, This article is rubbish. The writer does not understand the subtleties involved and does not understand that nothing like the tittle was found to be true. -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
