Re: MIND|CONSTRUCT
John,
On 28 Apr 2012, at 22:51, John Mikes wrote:
Bruno,
I confess to ignorance (not the elegant agnosticism) towards the UM
('you'?).
Are you sure you "know" who you (the UM=you) are?
I don't know who I am. But I am *pretty sure* that you and me are, at
the least, (local) universal machine. Indeed Löbian one: that is: we
know that we are (Turing) universal, and we can bet on Church thesis,
making us truly universal. Of course we cannot know for sure that
Church thesis is true, but there are good evidence, and then we have
to postulate principle to progress and make theories (susceptible to
be refuted).
Knowing that we are universal machine does neither entail that we are
only that, nor does it entail that we know who we are.
From your words it looks to me as a "super-dooper" Occam razor,
cutting out lots of details and concentrates on the 'essence'?
(Those "details" however contribute to the overall complexity - so
essential in my personal views).
Science alway work by simplifying, until we change the theory.
Consequence: NOW I have less faith in the UM and feel it (her?)
closer to the conventional sciences - the current level of our
getting (mentally) smarter.
Sorry I stuck my nose into something I don't understand - but that's
human.
No worry. We would not discover anything if we were not stucking our
nose in what we don't understand. Not even sure we would go out of our
mother's womb :)
I fancied the UM as something above all of us and our knowble world.
In the eight hypostases, that would correspond to arithmetical truth.
That is way above us and machines. It is way above the knowable (and
probably so, if we assume comp).
No, the UM is almost banal, bacteria are already locally universal
machine, and this is illustrated by our own bodies, mainly made of
bacteria (I like to see the eukaryotic cells has a vessel of
bacterias, perhaps together with one virus (the ancestor of the
nucleus, I speculate 'course).
Now, the virgin UM is above us, in some sense, because a programmed UM
is very often just a brainwashed UM, by its contingent history and
geography, nature and genetics, or even by its malevolent fellow
companions ...
Of course, in that sense a baby is above us, the adults.
Best,
Bruno
JM
On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 6:14 AM, Bruno Marchal
wrote:
John,
On 28 Apr 2012, at 02:49, John Mikes wrote:
Evgenii:
are you sure we 'know' the base-line of AI? is (human) mentality
discovered in all its details? is it possible to program ALL
details into a machine?
We seem to be restricted to our insufficient knowledge of the "so
far". All we can artificialize is that sofarness of (human)
intelligence. (I emphasize HUMAN because that's the one we came
closest to. Bruno's Universal Machine may know more, but we don't
know the Universal Machine.
The universal machine know less, and that is why it is interesting
to listen to her. She has far less prejudices.
I am not sure what you mean by "we don't know the universal
machine". It seems we know her pretty well, even if we often loss
ourselves in the many particulars, and that we have to be vigilant
not becoming ourself only a particular machine in a higher organism.
We are universal machine, before being humans. Of course those who
want to control us dislike very much the idea, for obvious reasons.
Bruno
JM
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, meekerdb
wrote:
Hmmm. An organization consisting of a CEO, an accountant, and a
finance guy that needs lots of money to develop human level AI.
Brent
On 4/27/2012 11:32 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
A link from my discussion on Linkedin
http://www.mindconstruct.com/
"MIND|CONSTRUCT is developing a 'strong-AI engine', a so called AI-
mind, that can be used in (human-like) robotics, healthcare,
aerospace sciences and every other area where 'conscious' man-
machine interaction is of any importance.
The MIND|CONSTRUCT organization is the culmination of many years in
AI-research and the so called 'hard-problems', and the application
of elaborate experience in knowledge-management, for the design and
development of a 'strong-AI engine'."
Evgenii
P.S. This is the link to the discussion but I guess you need to
have the Linkedin account and subscribe to the group
http://www.linkedin.com/e/-gay7jh-h17e0kop-6q/vaq/105949056/134407/77220668/
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Re: MIND|CONSTRUCT
Bruno,
I confess to ignorance (not the elegant agnosticism) towards the UM
('you'?).
Are you sure you "know" who you (the UM=you) are?
>From your words it looks to me as a "super-dooper" Occam razor, cutting out
lots of details and concentrates on the 'essence'? (Those "details" however
contribute to the overall complexity - so essential in my personal views).
Consequence: NOW I have less faith in the UM and feel it (her?) closer to
the conventional sciences - the current level of our getting (mentally)
smarter.
Sorry I stuck my nose into something I don't understand - but that's human.
I fancied the UM as something above all of us and our knowble world.
JM
On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 6:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
> John,
>
> On 28 Apr 2012, at 02:49, John Mikes wrote:
>
> Evgenii:
> are you sure we 'know' the base-line of AI? is (human) mentality
> discovered in all its details? is it possible to program ALL details into a
> machine?
> We seem to be restricted to our insufficient knowledge of the "so far".
> All we can artificialize is that sofarness of (human) intelligence. (I
> emphasize *HUMAN *because that's the one we came closest to. Bruno's
> Universal Machine may know more, but we don't know the Universal Machine.
>
>
> The universal machine know less, and that is why it is interesting to
> listen to her. She has far less prejudices.
>
> I am not sure what you mean by "we don't know the universal machine". It
> seems we know her pretty well, even if we often loss ourselves in the many
> particulars, and that we have to be vigilant not becoming ourself only a
> particular machine in a higher organism.
> We are universal machine, before being humans. Of course those who want to
> control us dislike very much the idea, for obvious reasons.
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
> JM
>
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, meekerdb wrote:
>
>> Hmmm. An organization consisting of a CEO, an accountant, and a finance
>> guy that needs lots of money to develop human level AI.
>>
>> Brent
>>
>> On 4/27/2012 11:32 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
>>
>>> A link from my discussion on Linkedin
>>>
>>> http://www.mindconstruct.com/
>>>
>>> "MIND|CONSTRUCT is developing a 'strong-AI engine', a so called AI-mind,
>>> that can be used in (human-like) robotics, healthcare, aerospace sciences
>>> and every other area where 'conscious' man-machine interaction is of any
>>> importance.
>>>
>>> The MIND|CONSTRUCT organization is the culmination of many years in
>>> AI-research and the so called 'hard-problems', and the application of
>>> elaborate experience in knowledge-management, for the design and
>>> development of a 'strong-AI engine'."
>>>
>>> Evgenii
>>>
>>> P.S. This is the link to the discussion but I guess you need to have the
>>> Linkedin account and subscribe to the group
>>>
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/e/-**gay7jh-h17e0kop-6q/vaq/**
>>> 105949056/134407/77220668/<http://www.linkedin.com/e/-gay7jh-h17e0kop-6q/vaq/105949056/134407/77220668/>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>
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> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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>
>
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Re: MIND|CONSTRUCT
John, On 28 Apr 2012, at 02:49, John Mikes wrote: Evgenii: are you sure we 'know' the base-line of AI? is (human) mentality discovered in all its details? is it possible to program ALL details into a machine? We seem to be restricted to our insufficient knowledge of the "so far". All we can artificialize is that sofarness of (human) intelligence. (I emphasize HUMAN because that's the one we came closest to. Bruno's Universal Machine may know more, but we don't know the Universal Machine. The universal machine know less, and that is why it is interesting to listen to her. She has far less prejudices. I am not sure what you mean by "we don't know the universal machine". It seems we know her pretty well, even if we often loss ourselves in the many particulars, and that we have to be vigilant not becoming ourself only a particular machine in a higher organism. We are universal machine, before being humans. Of course those who want to control us dislike very much the idea, for obvious reasons. Bruno JM On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, meekerdb wrote: Hmmm. An organization consisting of a CEO, an accountant, and a finance guy that needs lots of money to develop human level AI. Brent On 4/27/2012 11:32 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: A link from my discussion on Linkedin http://www.mindconstruct.com/ "MIND|CONSTRUCT is developing a 'strong-AI engine', a so called AI- mind, that can be used in (human-like) robotics, healthcare, aerospace sciences and every other area where 'conscious' man- machine interaction is of any importance. The MIND|CONSTRUCT organization is the culmination of many years in AI-research and the so called 'hard-problems', and the application of elaborate experience in knowledge-management, for the design and development of a 'strong-AI engine'." Evgenii P.S. This is the link to the discussion but I guess you need to have the Linkedin account and subscribe to the group http://www.linkedin.com/e/-gay7jh-h17e0kop-6q/vaq/105949056/134407/77220668/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: MIND|CONSTRUCT
John, I am personally pretty skeptical about the project. Yet, in the discussion on Linkedin, the answers from Hans Peter Willems (CEO) are interesting. Let us see. Evgenii On 28.04.2012 02:49 John Mikes said the following: Evgenii: are you sure we 'know' the base-line of AI? is (human) mentality discovered in all its details? is it possible to program ALL details into a machine? We seem to be restricted to our insufficient knowledge of the "so far". All we can artificialize is that sofarness of (human) intelligence. (I emphasize *HUMAN *because that's the one we came closest to. Bruno's Universal Machine may know more, but we don't know the Universal Machine. JM On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, meekerdb wrote: Hmmm. An organization consisting of a CEO, an accountant, and a finance guy that needs lots of money to develop human level AI. Brent On 4/27/2012 11:32 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: A link from my discussion on Linkedin http://www.mindconstruct.com/ "MIND|CONSTRUCT is developing a 'strong-AI engine', a so called AI-mind, that can be used in (human-like) robotics, healthcare, aerospace sciences and every other area where 'conscious' man-machine interaction is of any importance. The MIND|CONSTRUCT organization is the culmination of many years in AI-research and the so called 'hard-problems', and the application of elaborate experience in knowledge-management, for the design and development of a 'strong-AI engine'." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: MIND|CONSTRUCT
Evgenii: are you sure we 'know' the base-line of AI? is (human) mentality discovered in all its details? is it possible to program ALL details into a machine? We seem to be restricted to our insufficient knowledge of the "so far". All we can artificialize is that sofarness of (human) intelligence. (I emphasize *HUMAN *because that's the one we came closest to. Bruno's Universal Machine may know more, but we don't know the Universal Machine. JM On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 4:11 PM, meekerdb wrote: > Hmmm. An organization consisting of a CEO, an accountant, and a finance > guy that needs lots of money to develop human level AI. > > Brent > > On 4/27/2012 11:32 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: > >> A link from my discussion on Linkedin >> >> http://www.mindconstruct.com/ >> >> "MIND|CONSTRUCT is developing a 'strong-AI engine', a so called AI-mind, >> that can be used in (human-like) robotics, healthcare, aerospace sciences >> and every other area where 'conscious' man-machine interaction is of any >> importance. >> >> The MIND|CONSTRUCT organization is the culmination of many years in >> AI-research and the so called 'hard-problems', and the application of >> elaborate experience in knowledge-management, for the design and >> development of a 'strong-AI engine'." >> >> Evgenii >> >> P.S. This is the link to the discussion but I guess you need to have the >> Linkedin account and subscribe to the group >> >> http://www.linkedin.com/e/-**gay7jh-h17e0kop-6q/vaq/** >> 105949056/134407/77220668/<http://www.linkedin.com/e/-gay7jh-h17e0kop-6q/vaq/105949056/134407/77220668/> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to > everything-list@googlegroups.**com > . > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscribe@ > **googlegroups.com . > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** > group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> > . > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: MIND|CONSTRUCT
Hmmm. An organization consisting of a CEO, an accountant, and a finance guy that needs lots of money to develop human level AI. Brent On 4/27/2012 11:32 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: A link from my discussion on Linkedin http://www.mindconstruct.com/ "MIND|CONSTRUCT is developing a 'strong-AI engine', a so called AI-mind, that can be used in (human-like) robotics, healthcare, aerospace sciences and every other area where 'conscious' man-machine interaction is of any importance. The MIND|CONSTRUCT organization is the culmination of many years in AI-research and the so called 'hard-problems', and the application of elaborate experience in knowledge-management, for the design and development of a 'strong-AI engine'." Evgenii P.S. This is the link to the discussion but I guess you need to have the Linkedin account and subscribe to the group http://www.linkedin.com/e/-gay7jh-h17e0kop-6q/vaq/105949056/134407/77220668/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
MIND|CONSTRUCT
A link from my discussion on Linkedin http://www.mindconstruct.com/ "MIND|CONSTRUCT is developing a 'strong-AI engine', a so called AI-mind, that can be used in (human-like) robotics, healthcare, aerospace sciences and every other area where 'conscious' man-machine interaction is of any importance. The MIND|CONSTRUCT organization is the culmination of many years in AI-research and the so called 'hard-problems', and the application of elaborate experience in knowledge-management, for the design and development of a 'strong-AI engine'." Evgenii P.S. This is the link to the discussion but I guess you need to have the Linkedin account and subscribe to the group http://www.linkedin.com/e/-gay7jh-h17e0kop-6q/vaq/105949056/134407/77220668/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
