[FairfieldLife] Re: Orthorexia Nervosa

2005-10-11 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 I just came across this. Know anyone or groups of people like this?

I once drew a cartoon that we included in a newsletter to
prospective teachers of residence courses, covering things
to look out for and be aware of, should they come up. The
cartoon shows a lunchroom, with groups of people sitting
together and eating and talking, but one guy is sitting
all alone.  Two more people are about to sit down with
their trays of food, and one is saying to the other, You
don't want to sit with him...he's just read a diet book 
that changed his life.  :-)

 *  Orthorexia nervosa  
 
   o Not an official eating disorder diagnosis, but the 
concept
 is useful. The name was coined by Steven Bratman, M.D. to 
describe a
 pathological fixation on eating proper or pure or superior 
food. 
 
   o People with orthorexia nervosa feel superior to others 
who
 eat improper food, which might include non-organic or junk foods 
and
 items found in regular grocery stores, as opposed to health food 
stores. 
 
   o Orthorexics obsess over what to eat, how much to eat, 
how
 to prepare food properly, and where to obtain pure and proper
 foods. 
 
   o Eating the right food becomes an important ,or even 
the
 primary, focus of life. One's worth or goodness is seen in terms of
 what one does or does not eat. Personal values, relationships, 
career
 goals, and friendships become less important than the quality and
 timing of what is consumed. 
 
   o Perhaps related to, or a type of, obsessive-compulsive
 disorder







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[FairfieldLife] Hmmm.... annaM brahma?

2005-10-11 Thread cardemaister
bRhadaaraNyakopaniSat (Brihad-aaraNyaka-upaniSad)
V, 12


Legend ##SF## : saMdhi-vigraha (the previous 
 SandhiFree)

   .h : control character for ITX (ignore)
 
annaM brahmetyeka Ahus
 ##SF## annam.h brahma iti eke Ahur.h
tanna tathA
 ##SF## tad.h na tathA
pUyati vA annamR^ite prANAt
 ##SF## pUyati vai annam.h R^ite prANAd.h
prANo brahmetyeka Ahus
 ##SF## prANas.h brahma iti eke Ahur.h
tanna tathA
 ##SF## tad.h na tathA
shushhyati vai prANa R^ite.annAd
 ##SF## shushhyati vai praNas.h R^ite annAd.h
ete ha tveva devate
 ##SF## ete ha tu eva devate
ekadhAbhUyaM bhUtvA
 ##SF## ekadhAbhUyam.h bhUtvA
paramatAM gachchhatas
 ##SF## paramatAm.h gachchhataH
taddha smA.a.aha prAtR^idaH pitaram.h
 ##SF## tad.h dha sma Aha prAtR^idas.h pitaram.h
ki{\m+} svidevaivaM vidushhe sAdhu kuryAm.h
 ##SF## kim.h svid.h eva evaMvidushhe sAdhu kuryAm.h
kimevAsmA asAdhu kuryAmiti |
 ##SF## kim.h eva asmai asAdhu kuryAm.h iti
sa ha smAha pANinA
 ##SF## sa ha sma Aha pANinA
mA
 ##SF## mA
prAtR^ida
 ##SF## prAtR^ida
kastvenayorekadhAbhUyaM bhUtvA paramatAM gachchhatIti |
 ##SF## kas.h tu enayos.h ekadhAbhUyam.h bhUtvA paramatAm.h
gachchhati iti
tasmA u haitaduvAcha
 ##SF## tasmai u ha etad.h uvAcha
vIty
 ##SF## vi iti
annaM vai vi
 ##SF## annam.h vai vi
anne hImAni sarvANi bhUtAni vishhTAni |
 ##SF## anne hi imAni sarvANi bhUtAni vishhTAni
ramiti
 ##SF## ram.h iti
prANo vai raM
 ##SF## prANas.h vai ram.h
prANe hImAni sarvANi bhUtAni ramante |
 ##SF## prANe hi imAni sarvANi bhUtAni ratAni ramante
sarvANi ha vA asmin.h bhUtAni vishanti
 ##SF## sarvANi ha vai asmin bhUtAni vishanti
sarvANi bhUtAni ramante
 ##SF## sarvANi bhUtAni ramante
ya evaM veda || 12 ||   iti dvaadashaM braahmaNam.h ||
 ##SF## yas.h evam.h veda

TWELFTH BRÂHMANA.
1. Some say that food is Brahman, but this is not so, for food decays 
without life (prâna). Others say that life (prâna) is Brahman, but 
this is not so, for life dries up without food. Then these two 
deities (food and life), when they have become one, reach that 
highest state (i. e. are Brahman). Thereupon Prâtrida said to his 
father: 'Shall I be able to do any good to one who knows this, or 
shall I be able to do him any harm 4?' The father said to him, 
beckoning with his hand: 'Not so, O Prâtrida; for who could reach the 
highest state, if he has only got to the oneness of these two?' He 
then said to him: 'Vi;
verily, food is Vi, for all these beings rest (vishtâni) on food.' He 
then said: 'Ram; verily, life is Ram, for all these beings delight 
(ramante) in life. All beings rest on him, all beings delight in him 
who knows this.'






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cream 2005

2005-10-11 Thread cardemaister
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jonesmak45 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 We were at the Tuesday night performance at RAH  and it was 
 fntastic!  We couldn't believe we were actually sitting there 
 taking it all in...had great seats 20th row from the stage, but then 
 every seat is good since it only holds 5,000.  They sounded so great 
 and to be with 5,000 others on the same groove.well, you know!


Cool! Did Peter Ginger Baker play TOAD?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cream 2005

2005-10-11 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jonesmak45 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  We were at the Tuesday night performance at RAH  and it was 
  fntastic!  We couldn't believe we were actually sitting 
  there taking it all in...had great seats 20th row from the stage, 
  but then every seat is good since it only holds 5,000.  They 
  sounded so great and to be with 5,000 others on the same 
  groove.well, you know!
 
 Cool! Did Peter Ginger Baker play TOAD?

And did Clapton actually play interesting solos, or
just sleepwalk through the performance?  I ask not
to be unkind to Clapton, who is a tremendous guitarist,
but because he's kinda famous for phoning in his
live performances.  One would hope that the unique
nature of the concert brought out the best in him.








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[FairfieldLife] Just when you think that 'TM science' is silly...

2005-10-11 Thread TurquoiseB
...you learn that it fits right in with the rest of science:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/431.stm







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[FairfieldLife] Cloned Food Coming Soon

2005-10-11 Thread Vaj
They slipped another one by us...

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/business/12837825.htm

Despite consumer jitters, cloned food coming soon

PAUL ELIAS

Associated Press

ROUND TOP, Texas - About 80 miles east of Austin, out
where the fire ants bite and men still doff their
baseball hats when greeting women, 20 cows pregnant
with calves cloned by ViaGen Inc. have just arrived.

Stampeding down a chute from a tractor trailer, the
cattle join a menagerie of cloned pigs and cows that
include Elvis and Priscilla, calves cloned from cells
scraped from sides of high-quality beef hanging in a
slaughterhouse.

The cloning of barnyard animals has become so
commonplace and mechanized that ViaGen says it's more
than ready to efficiently produce juicier steaks and
tastier chops through cloning.

It now looks like federal regulators will endorse the
company's plan to bring cloned animal products to
America's dinner tables.

No law prevents cloned food, but ViaGen has
voluntarily withheld its products pending a ruling
from the Food and Drug Administration.

All that really stands in ViaGen's way, besides a nod
from the FDA, are squeamish consumers and skeptical
food producers.

The FDA is widely expected to soon endorse the
findings of a 2002 National Academy of Science report
it commissioned that found food products derived from
cloned animals do not present a food safety concern.

A March survey by the International Food Information
Council, an industry trade group, reported that 63
percent of consumers would likely not buy food from
cloned animals, even if the FDA determined the
products were safe.

It's one thing for traditional crops like corn to be
engineered to be pest-resistant, and people already
eat genetically engineered soy beans in all manner of
processed food.

But biotech companies run into what bioethicists call
the yuck factor when they begin tinkering with
animals.

That's why ViaGen likens its work to now common
reproductive technologies such as in vitro
fertilization and artificial insemination.

There are no guarantees that the cloned calf Elvis
will yield the top highest quality beef - the USDA's
prime yield 1 designation - that gave him his life,
but it certainly increases the odds he will produce
prime meat.

As it stands, prime yield 1 ratings come along once
every 12,000 cows.

ViaGen's founder Scott Davis says knowing which cow is
likely to yield premium beef could demand a $250
premium per heifer, a big markup in the notoriously
low-margin industry.

He said the price of a cloned cow continues to drop
and, depending on the order volume, can cost as little
as $8,000 per animal.

Cloning is at a commercially viable place now, Davis said.


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[FairfieldLife] Sir Paul Rides Again

2005-10-11 Thread Vaj
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/7683649


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Cream 2005

2005-10-11 Thread uns_tressor
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jonesmak45 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   We were at the Tuesday night performance at RAH  and it was 
   fntastic!  We couldn't believe we were actually sitting 
   there taking it all in...had great seats 20th row from the 
stage, 
   but then every seat is good since it only holds 5,000.  They 
   sounded so great and to be with 5,000 others on the same 
   groove.well, you know! 
  Cool! Did Peter Ginger Baker play TOAD?
 
 And did Clapton actually play interesting solos, or
 just sleepwalk through the performance?  I ask not
 to be unkind to Clapton, who is a tremendous guitarist,
 but because he's kinda famous for phoning in his
 live performances.  One would hope that the unique
 nature of the concert brought out the best in him.


Back in the days of Derek  the Dominoes (and the following
band, I think) he used to have top flight people in to 
play his work for him - closely tutored, I am sure. George
Terry did this sort of thing. But he was totally upfront 
about it. The guy had a follow spot, and was credited. Then
Clapton would put a dollop of whipped cream on top of 
Terry's work.
Uns.






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[FairfieldLife] Another Attack on Organics - Link to Send Email

2005-10-11 Thread markmeredith2002
Bush and agribusiness attempting another attack on the integrity of
organic food standards.  Send email to your senator via this link:

http://www.demaction.org/dia/organizations/oca/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=1242





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Part B Swami G answers Rasa

2005-10-11 Thread Peter
It doesn't sound like Gangaji to me. The exchange is
pretty lame.

--- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Re my rap earlier about megalomania, and about the 
 need/desire to be special, isn't that what this
 whole conversation is about?  This fellow (I can
 only assume it's a 'he') wants to be considered
 special because he has some kind of stigmata.
 Swami G (who I assume is Gangaji) keeps trying to
 remind him that liberation is achieved by NOT
 being special.  He freaks out, but keeps coming
 back for more, because in some weird way, his being
 knows that its specialness is not making him
 happy.  
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron F
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  * I think exactly like Jesus, not exactly the way
 you do. You say
  this is a lower form of Realization! You cannot
 refute saying this,
  you have put it in black and white. This is the
 threat I am fighting
  - not against myself as a personality, but
 something bigger.
  Please don't push me down to where I am not!
  
  G: fight what you want . there has been no
 threat against you
  . No you do not think like Christ for Christ
 would not make
  false statments against anyone . no one can
 put you
  anywhere .. it is only your own mind which is
 constricted ...
  
  
  
  * You cannot explain away Jesus and Ramakrishna,
 while it
  is much easier to dismiss other saints, lesser
 knowns, and the
  living, like myself.
  
  G: have not attempted to dismiss any saints ..
 if you wish to
  call yourself a saint fine . go for it ...
  
  
  * I am the easiest for you to dispose of. Now look
 at your
  attitude toward my Divine Stigmata. God keep me
 from any sort
  of ego or pride, as I speak of 'myself.' Even as I
 say those words,
  Swami condemns me as being of a lower nature - as
 one is
  never allowed to say, 'me' 'my,' 'I' or anything
 that 
 differentiates or
  separates.
  
  G: as far as the stigmata - show it .. if
 it is within and 
 not
  for the world then Shut up about it . for
 you are using it 
 as a
  sense of pride.. if it is for the world then
 Show it ..
  
  
  * But I am certain, Swami, that your bank account
 is under
  YOUR name and not open to the public to draw from.
  
  G: actually it is under the non-profits heading
 and no i don't
  draw a salary from it . but what would a
 bank account have
  to do with anything . again you are off on
 another side avenue
  that has Nothing to do with anything ..
  
  
  * I am sure that it is YOUR clothes that are
 hanging in your
  closet, where others do not walk in and put on.
  
  G: actually yes others do put them on .
 hahahahahaah
  
  * And then there is YOUR apartment,
  
  G: no --- am living at the ashram and Yes others
 do come
  and go here .. it is open for anyone to walk
 in .
  
  * YOUR car and the like. What do YOU say to that?
  
  G: it is used to pick up guests at the airport and
 transporting
  them wherever they need to go .
  
  * There IS NO YOU? Shall we stop playing games
 here?
  
  G: yes it would be nice if you would quit playing
 games ..
  AGAIN RASA SEES A BODY -- SHE RELATES TO A
 FORM 
  TAKING THE FORM TO BE THAT WHICH IS SEPARATE
  this IS the mind of Duality ..
  
  in this Consciousness there is always first and
 Foremost
  the Stillness and Unborn Presence of Absolute
 - the stilled
  point and from that Shakti or world comes into
 play dividing the
  Light into lights  sounds  colors -
 experience . the
  interaction takes place as motion --- sensation
 - when it ends
  then again the stilled vastness is all
 encompassing . the
  motion is Flow .. within this it is forever
 Not Two / Not 
 Two
  
  When you are tired of playing games then Stop
 - and Be
  Still - Let it all fall away . SEE what
 remains .
  
  
  
  * Will you stop condemning my spiritual state if I
 use
  personal pronouns?
  
  G: who has been attempting to condemn whom ?
  
  
  
  * You have bounced me backward twice because of
 the
  Divine Stigmata.
  The first letter, you asked where is it now, what
 good has it done
  to save the masses? (You don't believe in
 missionary work, so
  why worry about the masses?) Today you ask me
 WHERE IS
  IT? Stigmatists had PHYSICAL WOUNDS, and so, where
 are
  mine?
  
  G: yes  and you have not answered Either of
 those
  questions .
  
  Why is it here two questions are asked and you
 give no answer
  . ? while you have asked and laid out charges
 and
  questions and i have answered them all ..
  
  
  * Once again, you so cruelly and awfully
 contradict yourself.
  You say that God - who is not physical is That,
 and you are That.
  
  G: yes there is the One Divine Essense of All
 Being 
  
  
  * Then when I speak of a SPIRITUAL METAPHYSICAL
  UNSEEN reality, you say it has to be physical! If
 you can't see it
  with your eyes, it isn't 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Part B Swami G answers Rasa

2005-10-11 Thread TurquoiseB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 It doesn't sound like Gangaji to me. The exchange is
 pretty lame.

My mistake, I guess.  Pretty lame to allow it 
to go on this long, but if I were to vote for
who is the most 'pseudo' in this particular
discussion, it sure ain't the Advaitan.  :-)

 --- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Re my rap earlier about megalomania, and about the 
  need/desire to be special, isn't that what this
  whole conversation is about?  This fellow (I can
  only assume it's a 'he') wants to be considered
  special because he has some kind of stigmata.
  Swami G (who I assume is Gangaji) keeps trying to
  remind him that liberation is achieved by NOT
  being special.  He freaks out, but keeps coming
  back for more, because in some weird way, his being
  knows that its specialness is not making him
  happy.  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron F
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   * I think exactly like Jesus, not exactly the way
  you do. You say
   this is a lower form of Realization! You cannot
  refute saying this,
   you have put it in black and white. This is the
  threat I am fighting
   - not against myself as a personality, but
  something bigger.
   Please don't push me down to where I am not!
   
   G: fight what you want . there has been no
  threat against you
   . No you do not think like Christ for Christ
  would not make
   false statments against anyone . no one can
  put you
   anywhere .. it is only your own mind which is
  constricted ...
   
   
   
   * You cannot explain away Jesus and Ramakrishna,
  while it
   is much easier to dismiss other saints, lesser
  knowns, and the
   living, like myself.
   
   G: have not attempted to dismiss any saints ..
  if you wish to
   call yourself a saint fine . go for it ...
   
   
   * I am the easiest for you to dispose of. Now look
  at your
   attitude toward my Divine Stigmata. God keep me
  from any sort
   of ego or pride, as I speak of 'myself.' Even as I
  say those words,
   Swami condemns me as being of a lower nature - as
  one is
   never allowed to say, 'me' 'my,' 'I' or anything
  that 
  differentiates or
   separates.
   
   G: as far as the stigmata - show it .. if
  it is within and 
  not
   for the world then Shut up about it . for
  you are using it 
  as a
   sense of pride.. if it is for the world then
  Show it ..
   
   
   * But I am certain, Swami, that your bank account
  is under
   YOUR name and not open to the public to draw from.
   
   G: actually it is under the non-profits heading
  and no i don't
   draw a salary from it . but what would a
  bank account have
   to do with anything . again you are off on
  another side avenue
   that has Nothing to do with anything ..
   
   
   * I am sure that it is YOUR clothes that are
  hanging in your
   closet, where others do not walk in and put on.
   
   G: actually yes others do put them on .
  hahahahahaah
   
   * And then there is YOUR apartment,
   
   G: no --- am living at the ashram and Yes others
  do come
   and go here .. it is open for anyone to walk
  in .
   
   * YOUR car and the like. What do YOU say to that?
   
   G: it is used to pick up guests at the airport and
  transporting
   them wherever they need to go .
   
   * There IS NO YOU? Shall we stop playing games
  here?
   
   G: yes it would be nice if you would quit playing
  games ..
   AGAIN RASA SEES A BODY -- SHE RELATES TO A
  FORM 
   TAKING THE FORM TO BE THAT WHICH IS SEPARATE
   this IS the mind of Duality ..
   
   in this Consciousness there is always first and
  Foremost
   the Stillness and Unborn Presence of Absolute
  - the stilled
   point and from that Shakti or world comes into
  play dividing the
   Light into lights  sounds  colors -
  experience . the
   interaction takes place as motion --- sensation
  - when it ends
   then again the stilled vastness is all
  encompassing . the
   motion is Flow .. within this it is forever
  Not Two / Not 
  Two
   
   When you are tired of playing games then Stop
  - and Be
   Still - Let it all fall away . SEE what
  remains .
   
   
   
   * Will you stop condemning my spiritual state if I
  use
   personal pronouns?
   
   G: who has been attempting to condemn whom ?
   
   
   
   * You have bounced me backward twice because of
  the
   Divine Stigmata.
   The first letter, you asked where is it now, what
  good has it done
   to save the masses? (You don't believe in
  missionary work, so
   why worry about the masses?) Today you ask me
  WHERE IS
   IT? Stigmatists had PHYSICAL WOUNDS, and so, where
  are
   mine?
   
   G: yes  and you have not answered Either of
  those
   questions .
   
   Why is it here two questions are asked and you
  give no answer
   . ? while you have asked and laid 

[FairfieldLife] The Housing Bubble Beginning to Burst?

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108

---
October 08, 2005
Asking prices drop by nearly 15% in 16 suburban Boston towns

Price_reducedHomeowners in Greater Boston and elsewhere continue to
expect big real estate gains despite a stunning revelation this
week: asking prices in 16 MetroWest towns have dropped by nearly 15
percent since August, according to MLS statistics.  All good things
come to an end, economist and housing guru Karl Case told real estate
reporter, Sue Brickman of the Weston Town Crier.  Commenting on a
spreading inventory problem and a sea change on the demand side
which we have been expecting for a long time, Case predicted that
prices are going to fall back to a justifiable level, because people
are running out of gas (interest).  Noting that current price
reductions will not show up in industry statistics for some time, Case
was guarded -- but cautious -- in his assessment of the market:

We'll see some softness for a while, but I don't see a collapse.
But I say that not with a hell of a lot of conviction.  

Last year at this time, a survey by Case and his partner, Robert
Shiller of irrational exuberance fame, revealed that home owners in
Boston, Milwaukee, San Francisco and California's Orange County were
counting on double-digit growth EACH YEAR for the next ten years.

Despite mounting evidence of a housing bubble, homeowners remain
overwhelmingly confident about continued appreciation.  According to
the Daily News Transcript, another suburban newspaper in Boston, an
online survey of 1,001 consumers conducted by RBC Capital Markets
revealed that:

1.  60 percent of homeowners expect the value of their homes to
increase by at least 5 percent annually during the next several years; 

2.  24 percent of respondents said they expect annualized gains of
10 percent or more over the next few years; and

3.  About 3 percent of respondents said they expect their home
values to decline over the next few years.

That optimism is starkly out of line with short-term price changes and
long-term home buying plans which recently plunged to their lowest
point in a decade. Local listing agents say sellers need to adjust
their thinking and profit margins to attract buyers.  What's your
take?  Is that enough to break the stalemate in the market; or if you
buy now, are you setting yourself up for a heartbreaking loss of value
in coming years? 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Housing Bubble Beginning to Burst?

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108
Home prices top out?

Cost of new houses levels off in area after meteoric rise
By Andrew LePage -- Bee Staff Writer
Published 2:15 am PDT Friday, October 7, 2005
Story appeared on Page A1 of The Bee


Price appreciation for new homes in the Sacramento area has slowed to
a crawl, with more builders tempering or skipping price increases and
offering greater incentives to attract buyers.

The median price of a new home sold in the capital region was $459,990
in the third quarter, unchanged from the previous quarter and up 3.4
percent from one year ago, according to the Gregory Group, a
Folsom-based market research firm.

For the same July-September period last year, the new home median shot
up 23 percent for Sacramento, Placer, El Dorado, Yolo, Yuba and Sutter
counties.

In general the market is responding like it should, based on what's
happened with price increases the last couple of years, said analyst
Greg Paquin, who heads the Gregory Group. If we kept going at the
same (appreciation) rate we would have been in trouble. We couldn't
have sustained it, and we would have fallen off the proverbial cliff.

Sales incentives and a surge in lower-priced condos and homes on small
lots helped push overall third-quarter sales up 4.5 percent, but sales
so far this year are down 7.5 percent.

The lost steam in the new home market is the latest in a string of
signs that the region's seven-year housing boom is winding down to a
more normal pace of sales and appreciation. For example, sales of
existing homes fell 7 percent in August and the number of resale homes
on the market roughly doubled compared with a year ago.

Paquin's forecast calls for the median sale price of a new home in the
capital region to rise 1 percent to 5 percent annually for the next
two to three years as job and income growth catch up to home prices.

That forecast could include a dip in prices at some projects,
especially those with homes priced over $600,000.

Some economists and housing analysts view Sacramento homes as
overpriced and vulnerable to significant price declines in the event
of an economic shock, such as an interest rate spike. But most predict
a soft landing for the market, meaning mild price declines, if any,
as long as the national economy stays out of recession and local job
growth continues.

The outlook for the (Sacramento) region over the next five to 10
years is very bright, in my opinion; so consequently the outlook for
the number of homes sold and the prices for those homes is very good,
said economist Matt Newman, who tracks the Sacramento market for the
Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research. But because interest
rates are rising and prices are already so high, I don't think you'll
see a lot of price appreciation over the next few years.

Today's new home market bears little resemblance to the frantic one of
the last few years when buyers waited in lines overnight, entered
lotteries and put their names on long waiting lists for a shot at
buying a home.

Now most builders are offering incentives worth $1,000 to $50,000 as
they work to sell a growing number of houses that are under
construction without a buyer lined up. In the last year the number of
homes available for sale - including bare lots and homes under
construction but not yet completed - has jumped 89 percent, to 2,303
in the third quarter, the Gregory Group reports.

Often a buyer has backed out or the builder has forced someone out of
a deal.

Such cancellations have roughly doubled in the past year, to about
28 percent of all sales in the third quarter.

Builders say they are ferreting out more investors. At the same time,
more buyers are getting cold feet or simply failing to obtain financing.

I wouldn't say it's totally a buyers' market, said Jack Hood,
president of Centex Homes' local division. But it's getting to be
more of an equilibrium between buyer and seller. If they can find a
house that's nearing completion they can probably negotiate a better
deal.

Many shoppers realize the market is turning in their favor.

It looks like it's a buyers' market right now, said Joe Gilmette as
he toured a model home one recent afternoon at the burgeoning Anatolia
community off Sunrise Boulevard in Rancho Cordova. There are a ton of
homes on the market and maybe there will be some room to negotiate. I
can make a good decision and not feel pressured.

Gilmette, who works in law enforcement, noted that six months ago all
of the builders had waiting lists and all of the lots were gone.

The number of new homes sold in the six-county region fell 12 percent
in the third quarter compared with the second quarter - a seasonal dip
also seen in previous years.

Hood, the Centex president, said builders have caused much of the
market's slowdown by preventing investors from buying.

Investors hoping to flip homes for a quick profit compete with
builders for sales. And investors buying homes to rent out perturb
neighbors who resent For Rent signs in their new 

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Housing Bubble Beginning to Burst?

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108
Prices in London fell by 0.1 per cent in September, according to the
latest report from Hometrack...

London The average house price in London now stands at £261,000, down
from £274,200 in July 2004, an annual decline of -4.6 per cent.

Out of all 33 London boroughs, only six saw house price rises, 18
remained static and nine recorded falls. The best results were seen in
Hounslow (0.5 per cent), Tower Hamlets (0.5 per cent) and City of
London (0.3 per cent).

The worst performers in September were Enfield (-1.4 per cent),
Southwark (-0.6 per cent), Redbridge (-0.5 per cent) and harrow (-0.5
per cent).

Sales, Supply and Demand
Activity levels (the number of sales agreed) were up over the month,
however, rising by 5.9 per cent (4.3 per cent in August) but with the
number of properties listed falling by 2.5 per cent and the number of
buyers decreasing by 2.5 per cent, supply continues to outweigh demand
meaning that further house price falls are likely, says Hometrack.

There was a slight dip in sales price as a percentage of asking price
to 93.4 per cent compared to 93.6 per cent in August's report, an
indication that it remains a buyers' market with vendors being forced
to accept lower offers to secure a sale.

The length of time taken to sell a property dropped slightly from 6.4
weeks in August to 6.3 weeks, and the number of viewings per sale was
down from 14.4 in August to 14 in September, both indicating that
properties are not sticking on the market for as long, according to
Hometrack.

Gradual Downward Trend
Commenting on the report, John Wriglesworth, Hometrack's housing
economist, says: House prices have continued along their gradual
downward trend this month, falling by a further 0.1 per cent.

London has been hit hard by house price deflation although there are
no signs of an imminent crash. If activity continues to increase, and
buyers come back to the market in force then prices should eventually
continue their upward trend. However, while supply continues to exceed
demand house prices will fall.

House prices in the capital are still well above the national
average, making it difficult for first time buyers to get on the first
step of the property ladder.

Although incomes are rising and mortgage lenders are relaxing their
lending criteria, confidence is still low. A further rate cut is
needed to help boost confidence across the capital. Our London house
price forecast for 2005 remains at -five per cent.

===
 Home prices top out?
 
 Cost of new houses levels off in area after meteoric rise
 By Andrew LePage -- Bee Staff Writer
 Published 2:15 am PDT Friday, October 7, 2005
 Story appeared on Page A1 of The Bee
 
 
 Price appreciation for new homes in the Sacramento area has slowed
to  a crawl, with more builders tempering or skipping price increases
and offering greater incentives to attract buyers.
 
 The median price of a new home sold in the capital region was
$459,990 in the third quarter, unchanged from the previous quarter and
up 3.4  percent from one year ago, according to the Gregory Group, a
 Folsom-based market research firm.
 
 
 = 
  ---
  October 08, 2005
  Asking prices drop by nearly 15% in 16 suburban Boston towns
  
  Price_reducedHomeowners in Greater Boston and elsewhere continue to
  expect big real estate gains despite a stunning revelation this
  week: asking prices in 16 MetroWest towns have dropped by nearly 15
  percent since August, according to MLS statistics.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Housing Bubble Beginning to Burst?

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108
Manhattan home prices drop

A report shows luxury apartments took hit in third quarter amid lower
sales activity

October 4, 2005: 8:11 AM EDT
Latest home prices for 149 markets

Refinance Rates Hit Record Lows

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Homes in Gotham got a little more affordable in
the third quarter...or rather, prices dropped, but they still remained
in nosebleed territory for most people.

The price declines followed two consecutive record quarters in which
real-estate prices saw gains of at least 10 percent.

In its third-quarter Manhattan Market Overview report released
Tuesday, Prudential Douglas Elliman attributed the price declines to a
number of factors, including a modest uptick in mortgage rates,
concern over the economic impact of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, and a
spike in gas prices.

Luxury-home prices (condos and co-ops combined) were hit hardest,
according to the report. The average sales price of a luxury home sank
26 percent, to $3.8 million, from $5.2 million in the second quarter.
It also was 7 percent below the average price of $4.1 million from a
year earlier.

The median price of luxury homes – meaning the price above which half
of all luxury home sold -- also dropped, falling to $3.1 million from
$3.8 million in the second quarter. A year ago, the median price was
$3.2 million.

Meanwhile, the average sales price for all types of Manhattan homes
combined fell nearly 13 percent to $1.1 million from a record $1.3
million in the second quarter. Still, that was 10 percent higher than
a year ago.

The median sales price also fell, by 3.2 percent to $750,000. But it
was still 25 percent higher than the median price of $600,000 a year ago.

There were, however, price increases for smaller apartments. The
average price for studios rose nearly 13 percent, to $428,831, while
the average price for one-bedrooms rose nearly 10 percent to $687,744.

Drilling down, prices for condos and co-ops both fell. Most notable:
the average price of a co-op fell below the $1 million threshold,
which it crossed for the first time in the second quarter.

Sales activity overall declined. The number of units sold fell 8.4
percent, to 1,997, from 2,181 in the second quarter. And the average
size of apartments sold fell 14 percent to 1,169 square feet. That's
due in large part to the fact that there was an increase in sales
activity for studios and 1-bedroom apartments, while demand declined
for larger apartments.

Not everything was down in the third quarter, however. The average
price per square foot rose 1.4 percent, to $984, compared with the
second quarter and it was up 22.5 percent from the year-ago price.

Also higher was the amount of time it took to sell a property: 133
days versus 102 in the second quarter.


=

 Prices in London fell by 0.1 per cent in September, according to the
latest report from Hometrack...
 
 London The average house price in London now stands at £261,000, down
 from £274,200 in July 2004, an annual decline of -4.6 per cent.
 
 Out of all 33 London boroughs, only six saw house price rises, 18
remained static and nine recorded falls. The best results were seen in
 Hounslow (0.5 per cent), Tower Hamlets (0.5 per cent) and City of
 London (0.3 per cent).
 
 ===
  Home prices top out?
  
  Cost of new houses levels off in area after meteoric rise
  By Andrew LePage -- Bee Staff Writer
  Published 2:15 am PDT Friday, October 7, 2005
  Story appeared on Page A1 of The Bee
  
  
  Price appreciation for new homes in the Sacramento area has slowed
 to  a crawl, with more builders tempering or skipping price
increases and offering greater incentives to attract buyers.
  
  The median price of a new home sold in the capital region was
 $459,990 in the third quarter, unchanged from the previous quarter
and up 3.4  percent from one year ago, according to the Gregory Group,
a  Folsom-based market research firm.
  
  
  = 
   ---
   October 08, 2005
   Asking prices drop by nearly 15% in 16 suburban Boston towns
   
   Price_reducedHomeowners in Greater Boston and elsewhere continue
to expect big real estate gains despite a stunning revelation this 
week: asking prices in 16 MetroWest towns have dropped by nearly 15 
percent since August, according to MLS statistics.
 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Housing Bubble Beginning to Burst?

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108
San Diego Housing Bubble Pops

Tuesday, October 04, 2005

Option Arm mortgages now account for over 75% of all mortgage
originations for the month of September. I have never seen anything
like this before.

I attended two mortgage conventions this month and every broker I
talked to said they were experiencing the same thing.

Add fuel to the fire because the San Diego housing bubble has finally
popped and I am sure much of the rest of the country will soon follow.
The damage will be the worst disaster in recent U.S. history.

The fixed rate refinance boom has transformed into the Option ARM
refinance boom. This is the negative amortization loan that your
monthly payment is based on a 1% loan for 40 years for the first 3 to
5 years and then it recasts at normal adjustable rates. This allows
someone to purchase a $700,000 home with $35,000 down using a $560,000
first mortgage with a starting payment of $1,415.99 plus an interest
only second of $105,000 with a payment of $613.00.

Put this together and you can buy a $700,000 home with $35,000 down
and a monthly payment of $2,028.99. The same house would rent for
around $2,500 a month, so the person buying justifies the purchase.
The problem is when this loan recasts in 3 to 5 years, depending on
how quickly interest rates rise, the new payment will be around
$4,711.26 a month. That's right, the payment jumps from $2,028.99 to
$4,711.26 in less than 5 years, and if interest rates rise the payment
could be higher! This is justified by I am planning on moving in less
than 5 years anyway.

This is only the beginning of the problem…

Then because the house just sold for $700,000, an appraiser uses this
house as a comparable on the next door neighbors refinance and this
person only owes $250,000 because they bought several years ago when
prices were lower. This person decides to tap into this inflated value
and due a loan for $350,000 using an Option ARM so he can take out
$100,000 to fuel the consumer spending bubble. His payment on his old
mortgage was $1,500 per month, but because of this new super duper
Option ARM loan he can get his $100,000 cash out and his new payment
is only $885 per month. Now he can really blow up consumer spending
and even use this extra money to invest in real estate. How about a
nice condo in Florida?

And the 3 to 5 year recast? (Which will be around $2,200 per month if
rates don't rise) He figures he has another $350,000 in equity in his
home so he can just keep refinancing every few years and knock his
payment back down and don't forget real estate always goes up, so in
ten years or so his house will be worth millions and he will probably
just cash in and move into his Florida condo anyway.

I disagree with all the experts… I don't see a soft landing. With
all this funny money being pumped into the American consumers pockets,
all you can expect to see if a drastic end to consumer spending. If
you really think about it, this extra money is fueling a bubble now
not just in housing, but everything of value. If people stop buying
cars, TVs, appliances, etc. then all those stocks will drop in value
and everyone of those companies will cut back on spending and labor
which will spiral undemployment out of control, which will cause more
deflation. Credit Card accounts will begin defaulting because people
won't be able to refinance out of credit card debt and now with the
new bankruptcy rules (Effective Oct 15) there is no way out.
Additionally, the banks and all these mortgage pools will go bust
holding all these underwater loans and a massive government bail out
will put everyone including the government into massive debt. Then the
government will start the presses and print more money in order to
combat deflation, which will cause more deflation because the money
will enter the broken banking system instead of the consumers pockets
and then we will have a prolonged depression like Japan.

Maybe I am crazy, that is just how I see it playing out.

Anyway, back to the housing bubble… This thing is over in San Diego,
September last year we had 67 loans coming from real estate agents,
this month we have had 8. I am being told that the buyers have
vanished and all that is left is people trying to sell. Some of these
sellers are dropping prices by as much as 30% and they are still
sitting. Luckily, these Option ARM loans are very profitable and the
refinance business continues to boom.

I hope all of my fellow mortgage brokers have managed to stash some
cash under the mattress. I just sold my last piece of real estate and
I am going to watch the storm roll in from the side lines.

 




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Manhattan home prices drop
 
 A report shows luxury apartments took hit in third quarter amid
lower sales activity
 
 October 4, 2005: 8:11 AM EDT
 Latest home prices for 149 markets
   
 Refinance Rates Hit Record Lows
 
 NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Homes in 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Housing Bubble Beginning to Burst?

2005-10-11 Thread Peter
This is Enron type financial thinking. It always
blows-up in the end.

--- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 San Diego Housing Bubble Pops
 
 Tuesday, October 04, 2005
 
 Option Arm mortgages now account for over 75% of all
 mortgage
 originations for the month of September. I have
 never seen anything
 like this before.
 
 I attended two mortgage conventions this month and
 every broker I
 talked to said they were experiencing the same
 thing.
 
 Add fuel to the fire because the San Diego housing
 bubble has finally
 popped and I am sure much of the rest of the country
 will soon follow.
 The damage will be the worst disaster in recent U.S.
 history.
 
 The fixed rate refinance boom has transformed into
 the Option ARM
 refinance boom. This is the negative amortization
 loan that your
 monthly payment is based on a 1% loan for 40 years
 for the first 3 to
 5 years and then it recasts at normal adjustable
 rates. This allows
 someone to purchase a $700,000 home with $35,000
 down using a $560,000
 first mortgage with a starting payment of $1,415.99
 plus an interest
 only second of $105,000 with a payment of $613.00.
 
 Put this together and you can buy a $700,000 home
 with $35,000 down
 and a monthly payment of $2,028.99. The same house
 would rent for
 around $2,500 a month, so the person buying
 justifies the purchase.
 The problem is when this loan recasts in 3 to 5
 years, depending on
 how quickly interest rates rise, the new payment
 will be around
 $4,711.26 a month. That's right, the payment jumps
 from $2,028.99 to
 $4,711.26 in less than 5 years, and if interest
 rates rise the payment
 could be higher! This is justified by I am planning
 on moving in less
 than 5 years anyway.
 
 This is only the beginning of the problem…
 
 Then because the house just sold for $700,000, an
 appraiser uses this
 house as a comparable on the next door neighbors
 refinance and this
 person only owes $250,000 because they bought
 several years ago when
 prices were lower. This person decides to tap into
 this inflated value
 and due a loan for $350,000 using an Option ARM so
 he can take out
 $100,000 to fuel the consumer spending bubble. His
 payment on his old
 mortgage was $1,500 per month, but because of this
 new super duper
 Option ARM loan he can get his $100,000 cash out and
 his new payment
 is only $885 per month. Now he can really blow up
 consumer spending
 and even use this extra money to invest in real
 estate. How about a
 nice condo in Florida?
 
 And the 3 to 5 year recast? (Which will be around
 $2,200 per month if
 rates don't rise) He figures he has another $350,000
 in equity in his
 home so he can just keep refinancing every few years
 and knock his
 payment back down and don't forget real estate
 always goes up, so in
 ten years or so his house will be worth millions
 and he will probably
 just cash in and move into his Florida condo anyway.
 
 I disagree with all the experts… I don't see a
 soft landing. With
 all this funny money being pumped into the American
 consumers pockets,
 all you can expect to see if a drastic end to
 consumer spending. If
 you really think about it, this extra money is
 fueling a bubble now
 not just in housing, but everything of value. If
 people stop buying
 cars, TVs, appliances, etc. then all those stocks
 will drop in value
 and everyone of those companies will cut back on
 spending and labor
 which will spiral undemployment out of control,
 which will cause more
 deflation. Credit Card accounts will begin
 defaulting because people
 won't be able to refinance out of credit card debt
 and now with the
 new bankruptcy rules (Effective Oct 15) there is no
 way out.
 Additionally, the banks and all these mortgage pools
 will go bust
 holding all these underwater loans and a massive
 government bail out
 will put everyone including the government into
 massive debt. Then the
 government will start the presses and print more
 money in order to
 combat deflation, which will cause more deflation
 because the money
 will enter the broken banking system instead of the
 consumers pockets
 and then we will have a prolonged depression like
 Japan.
 
 Maybe I am crazy, that is just how I see it playing
 out.
 
 Anyway, back to the housing bubble… This thing is
 over in San Diego,
 September last year we had 67 loans coming from real
 estate agents,
 this month we have had 8. I am being told that the
 buyers have
 vanished and all that is left is people trying to
 sell. Some of these
 sellers are dropping prices by as much as 30% and
 they are still
 sitting. Luckily, these Option ARM loans are very
 profitable and the
 refinance business continues to boom.
 
 I hope all of my fellow mortgage brokers have
 managed to stash some
 cash under the mattress. I just sold my last piece
 of real estate and
 I am going to watch the storm roll in from the side
 lines.
 
  
 
 
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 

[FairfieldLife] Academia Embraces Spooky Studies

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108
Academia Embraces Spooky Studies 
By Randy Dotinga

Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,69086,00.html

02:00 AM Oct. 11, 2005 PT

At the University of Arizona, a psychology laboratory devotes its time
to investigating dynamic info-energy systems and a survival of
consciousness hypothesis. University of Virginia cardiologists have
been studying whether heart patients enter transcendental
environments in the operating room. Meanwhile, a psychiatrist
colleague compiles records of alleged transmigration events from
around the world.

Translation? At two of America's best universities, professors and
doctors are studying the existence of the soul, near-death experiences
and reincarnation.

Sure, plenty of scientists throughout history tried to uncover the
mystery of life after death, from Aristotle to Thomas Edison, who took
time off from activities like electrocuting an elephant to contemplate
a megaphone for the dead. But current-day afterlife research? At
accredited institutions of higher learning? Who knew?

Science journalist Mary Roach, author of the new book Spook: Science
Tackles the Afterlife, said that institutions are looking at the
debate over the existence of the afterlife and declaring, 'We can
study it, we can apply principles of peer-reviewed research, we can do
it.' People say, 'Yes, we can figure it out.'

Roach is a natural-born skeptic based in Oakland, California. She
became interested in soul science while writing her best-selling 2003
book, Stiff: The Curious Lives of Human Cadavers, in which she briefly
touched on the bizarre story of Dr. Duncan MacDougall, the New England
doctor whose findings were immortalized in the title of the 2003
Benicio del Toro movie 21 Grams.

MacDougall assumed the soul has mass, and figured he could measure it
by putting a dying consumption patient on a scale. At death, the
weight of the soul would presumably leave the dearly departed's body;
in one experiment on a dying man, 21 grams seemed to vanish, joining
the patient's dignity in the ether somewhere.

Roach loved this turn-of-the-century example of American can-do
spirit, even though MacDougall's work was discredited and he's now
known as a bit of a nutball. So Roach set out to chronicle the history
of afterlife research and the related field of afterlife-research
debunking. Among other things, she made forays into topics like
vaginally extruded ectoplasm (don't ask) and how infrasound might
explain ghostly visions.

Nowadays, the study of the afterlife is a fringe subject in academia,
Roach said. There's very little of it going on, she said. It's hard
to get funding for legitimate research these days, and you can imagine
(the struggle for) something as seemingly frivolous as parapsychology.

Even so, your taxpayer dollars -- and a private grant or two -- are
supporting paranormal studies. There are people who think it's
outrageous that money is being spent on such a stupid topic, and
others that feel like it's an important question that medicine or
psychology should address, Roach said.

At the University of Arizona, for example, researchers at the
innocuously named Human Energy Systems Laboratory -- with a total
annual budget of about $500,000 -- have been busy asking psychics to
pose questions to dead people. One subject was Allison DuBois, who
inspired the NBC show Medium. The center is also looking into topics
like energy healing and non-contact therapeutic touch.

Our work is in three areas: The first is really controversial, the
second is very controversial and the third is super controversial,
said psychology professor Gary Schwartz, the center's director.

In that third category is Schwartz's new medium-by-e-mail project,
which is now recruiting psychics. Researchers will talk to relatives
of the dead and then e-mail questions about the deceased to mediums.
According to Schwartz, the mediums won't know any details about the
dead person other than his or her name. (Perhaps the world of the dead
has its own handy 411 service?)

Researchers will then compare the medium's answers to those provided
by the same medium to questions about another deceased person.

For example, a medium might get e-mailed questions from Jim about
his dead wife Abigail and from David about his dead wife
Victoria. The questions, according to Schwartz, will be along the
lines of, What did Abigail look like? and What did Abigail die of?

If Jim looks at the two sets of answers -- without knowing who's who
-- and picks those about his wife, that will be a sign that the medium
may be onto something, especially if similar experiments beat the odds.

The University of Virginia's Division of Personality Studies is
another hotbed of afterlife inquiry. It's home to both near-death
studies (why do people have visions on the operating table?) and a
researcher who compiles reports of children who talk about their past
lives.

Have these researchers actually found anything to suggest the
existence of a soul or 

[FairfieldLife] For the Love of Bush

2005-10-11 Thread Vaj


from Dr. Robert Svoboda's blog.September 17. 2005Visiting Ram Dass at his Maui home I noticed that (as had been rumored) he does keep a photo of George W. Bush on his altar. That photo reminded me, as it does him, that it is essential for all of us to pray that the current "world's most powerful man" will be guided to make the best decisions possible. In fact, it behooves all of us to strive mightily to entreat the Celestial Powers-that-Be to render astute our head of state.Perhaps it would be too much to request Providence to encourage those of our "leaders" who actively identify themselves as Christians to actively follow the path that Christ laid out for his disciples, e.g. to sell all that they have and give the proceeds to the poor, to turn the other cheek at every slight, and the like. Jesus advised us not to judge, lest we be judged, and being myself no paragon of Christ-like virtues I have no business judging anyone (even W). Of course, I also try to keep my personal beliefs private, rather than trying to drag Jesus into politics the way many of these "leaders" do; and this current politicization of Christ (a problem which has dogged Christianity almost since its inception) does I believe warrant comment.For example, how can one simultaneously claim to follow the Golden Rule ("do unto others as you would have them do unto you") and also actively promote the doctrine of "preemptive war" ("do unto others BEFORE they do unto you")?Or, consider the words of Jesus as reported in Matthew 5:43-44:"Ye have heard that it has been said, thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you."I freely admit that, as of yet, I have been unable to love all my enemies, and to do good to each of those who mean to do ill to me. I have however found it immensely worthwhile to set these principles as my goals, and try to live up to these high standards that Jesus instructed us to attempt to meet-norms that make it injudicious for anyone (even W) to condemn anyone else (even W).Which forces me to ask the question of why, when we have been thus unmistakably directed to love our enemies, is so much hate being so publicly directed toward those who are currently our enemies? (Setting aside for the moment the issue of, if Osama  Saddam were so clearly evil, what caused us to support them as "allies" for so long.) If we pray for our foes, why have we not yet had a national day of prayer with an Osama focus? Why before Saddam was overthrown was he routinely demonized, rather than "loved" and "blessed"? Why is the "do good to them that hate you" option never even hinted at by the "Beltway born-again" in the context of fundamentalist Islam? Shouldn't such a clear directive receive at least a public hearing among "public Christians," if only to offer counterpoints to the Muslim-baiting agitprop that has become so popular? Couldn't this option also present a positive Christian perspective that would be as comprehensive in its compassion as the ultra-sectarian Muslim world-view is comprehensive in its detestation of all non-Muslims?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Housing Bubble Beginning to Burst?

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 This is Enron type financial thinking. It always
 blows-up in the end.
 
These Option ARMS are just aggressive leveraging and laxing of credit
standards. Enabled by lenders. All quite legal and transparent. Though
quite imprudent IMO, as housing price appreciation expectations begin
to diminish and turn negative. But no one is conning anyone. 

What CFO Fastau did, with CEO Skilling nodding, at Enron was a series
of complex misleading, corrupt, illegal con transactions. These and
Option ARMS are not really at all in the same ballpark. 

An intersting book that goes into the complexity and manipulative
nature of the transacions is:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0767911784/103-0654142-0704622?v=glance





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[FairfieldLife] Re: For the Love of Bush

2005-10-11 Thread authfriend
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 from Dr. Robert Svoboda's blog.
snip
 If we pray for our foes, why have we not yet had a national  
 day of prayer with an Osama focus?

I love the idea, but it's a kind of catch-22.  For
the U.S. to hold a widely publicized national day of
prayer for Osama would be the worst thing we could
possibly do to him--and in that sense, it would be
distinctly *un*-Christian.

Otherwise, good piece.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: For the Love of Bush

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108
Whats his blog web address?


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 from Dr. Robert Svoboda's blog.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: For the Love of Bush

2005-10-11 Thread Vaj


http://drsvoboda.com/On Oct 11, 2005, at 3:18 PM, akasha_108 wrote:Whats his blog web address?   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  from Dr. Robert Svoboda's blog.  





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-11 Thread Bhairitu
Vaj wrote:


 On Oct 10, 2005, at 1:04 PM, anonymousff wrote:

 FWIW, in numerous lectures at the first Mallorca TTC, Jan-June, 1971,
 Maharishi told us (many times) that we should get rid of as many bad
 habits as possible before CC because they wouldn't go away just
 because we were enlightened. He said clearly we take our bad habits
 with us.

 This speaks volumes to me now, close to 35 years later, when we are
 all (or at least many) finally realizing that appearing to be
 saintly-whether strictly the *look* of saintliness, the pretty words
 of enlightenment from a real saint or a poseur-may be nothing but the
 Emperor's new new clothes.


 Interesting point.

 It's different though as we approach Unity and the extinction of all  
 phenomenon. There's actually a yogic saying on this which states  
 Ascend with Conduct, Descend with the View. In other words, as your  
 consciousness begins to assume the POV of Unity and begins to exhaust  
 all it's karma, one's conduct--in terms of the karmic imprints one  
 makes and the quality of ones actions--must be exemplary--so the  
 conduct must rise. If you can do that, you will exhaust all karmic  
 potentials.


I guess if you are on a right hand path.  It's irrelevant in the left 
hand path.  However generally most left hand practitioners are good 
people so there is no problem.  As a matter of fact you won't be given 
the instruction unless you are perceived as a good person but there is 
not a list of rules to follow.





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[FairfieldLife] www.drsvoboda.com

2005-10-11 Thread Vaj
Title: www.drsvoboda.com



  


 
   
   
   
   
   
   

  

  
  
Cultivating Prana
  
  Robert E. Svoboda
  
  
Whoever you may be, and wherever you may
  live, you live your life well when you live
  it at the right rate. Plow your way through
  life and life will wear you out; poke your
  way along and your life will grind to a halt.
  Find a pace that suits you, though, and amble
  along it accordingly, and your world will
  spontaneously level a path for you.
  
  Life requires of each of us a judicious
  stride,
  a step that causes every particle of
  our
  being to reverberate with rapport.
  Some of
  us find our stride without much effort;
  a
  few of us are even born ready to canter.
  But lots of us stumble along from day
  to
  day like we had two left feet, trying
  in
  vain to intellectualize our way through
  life
  when what all that life asks of us
  is that
  we let our prana do our walking forus.
  
  
  Prana is the energy that drives life, the power
  that animates the body, enlivens the
  mind,
  spurs the soul. Prana is life's inspiration,
  its foundation, its tenacity; it is
  the sure
  hand on the tiller, the wise voice
  of good
  counsel, the urge to health and harmony
  that
  craves to turn our bodies into havens
  where
  we can take shelter from the storms
  of the
  hectic modern world. Prana is at work
  at
  every instant in every cell of every
  living
  organism, seeking ever to deliver us
  from
  disease and confirm us in health, but
  only
  in those few people who are genetically
  fated
  to be healthy does prana automatically
  regulate
  its momentum. The rest of us must learn
  how
  to cultivate our prana.
  
  
  Pranayama, the "control" or "regulation"
  of prana, is a central principle of
  many
  of the varieties of yoga that ancient
  India
  produced. Good prana management is
  essential
  for those who seek to follow the path
  of
  Ashtanga Yoga, the "eight-limbed" yoga of personal
  development that the ancient seer Patanjali
  systematized. Patanjali, who taught
  that
  "yoga is restraint of the fluctuations
  of the mind" (yogas chitta vritti nirodhah), sought to restrain those fluctuations by
  restraining the breath, which can when performed
  with care cultivate prana admirably. Unfortunately,
  ever since Patanjali many unwary students
  and teachers of yoga have equated pranayama
  with prolonged, forcible holding of the breath,
  which can actually ruin the body.
  
  Wise pranayama begins with observation. When
  moving your body, how often do you ponder
  what causes your body to move? When exercising,
  do you exercise your muscles alone, or also
  the force that drives them? Do you limit
  yourself to the physical posture when you
  perform an asana, or do you perform it energetically
  as well? A good first step to effective prana
  stewardship is to alert yourself to your
  energy posture, your habits of holding and
  utilizing your energy.
  
  Understand your natural affinity with
  prana
  and you gain insight into which method
  of
  prana cultivation will work most efficiently
  and effortlessly for you. Sound prana
  handling
  is methodical, and the rishis, India's seers who spent their long lives
  poring over the many facets of the
  paradox
  that is life, proposed an variety of
  methods
  to encourage prana to adopt an suitable
  pace.
  They advised at the outset that we
  use the
  principles of Ayurveda, India's life-science,
  to balance vata, pitta and kapha, the three energy strategies of embodied
  beings. These Three Doshas encourage ailments when they are permitted
  to struggle with one another, and work
  to
  support the organism when taught to
  cooperate.
  When the Three Doshas strive toward
  amity
  they serve to strengthen agni, or tejas, the fire of transformation that permits
  us to feed and nourish ourselves. Strong
  fire digests cleanly the prana that
  we consume
  through our breath and through our
  food,
  and strong agni and prana facilitate the development of
  ojas, the pure "juice" that makes living
  worthwhile by cementing together body,
  mind
  and spirit and fueling immunity from
  illness.
  
  
  Strong tejas and ojas in a body provide
  prana
  a good seat (asana) there. Well-seated prana provides us the
  visceral resolve we need to perform
  our every
  action 

[FairfieldLife] musicyahoo.com

2005-10-11 Thread Mark



musicyahoo.com

This is the future of the music listening experience for only $5.00 a month--over a million songs. 

I tried it and it's great!

Mark






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Re: [FairfieldLife] For the Love of Bush

2005-10-11 Thread Bhairitu
Vaj wrote:

 from Dr. Robert Svoboda's blog.

 September 17. 2005
 Visiting Ram Dass at his Maui home I noticed that (as had been  
 rumored) he does keep a photo of George W. Bush on his altar. That  
 photo reminded me, as it does him, that it is essential for all of us  
 to pray that the current world's most powerful man will be guided  
 to make the best decisions possible. In fact, it behooves all of us  
 to strive mightily to entreat the Celestial Powers-that-Be to render  
 astute our head of state.

 Perhaps it would be too much to request Providence to encourage those  
 of our leaders who actively identify themselves as Christians to  
 actively follow the path that Christ laid out for his disciples, e.g.  
 to sell all that they have and give the proceeds to the poor, to turn  
 the other cheek at every slight, and the like. Jesus advised us not  
 to judge, lest we be judged, and being myself no paragon of Christ- 
 like virtues I have no business judging anyone (even W). Of course, I  
 also try to keep my personal beliefs private, rather than trying to  
 drag Jesus into politics the way many of these leaders do; and this  
 current politicization of Christ (a problem which has dogged  
 Christianity almost since its inception) does I believe warrant comment.

 For example, how can one simultaneously claim to follow the Golden  
 Rule (do unto others as you would have them do unto you) and also  
 actively promote the doctrine of preemptive war (do unto others  
 BEFORE they do unto you)?

 Or, consider the words of Jesus as reported in Matthew 5:43-44:

 Ye have heard that it has been said, thou shalt love thy neighbor,  
 and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, love your enemies, bless  
 them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them  
 which despitefully use you, and persecute you.

 I freely admit that, as of yet, I have been unable to love all my  
 enemies, and to do good to each of those who mean to do ill to me. I  
 have however found it immensely worthwhile to set these principles as  
 my goals, and try to live up to these high standards that Jesus  
 instructed us to attempt to meet-norms that make it injudicious for  
 anyone (even W) to condemn anyone else (even W).

 Which forces me to ask the question of why, when we have been thus  
 unmistakably directed to love our enemies, is so much hate being so  
 publicly directed toward those who are currently our enemies?  
 (Setting aside for the moment the issue of, if Osama  Saddam were so  
 clearly evil, what caused us to support them as allies for so  
 long.) If we pray for our foes, why have we not yet had a national  
 day of prayer with an Osama focus? Why before Saddam was overthrown  
 was he routinely demonized, rather than loved and blessed? Why is  
 the do good to them that hate you option never even hinted at by  
 the Beltway born-again in the context of fundamentalist Islam?  
 Shouldn't such a clear directive receive at least a public hearing  
 among public Christians, if only to offer counterpoints to the  
 Muslim-baiting agitprop that has become so popular? Couldn't this  
 option also present a positive Christian perspective that would be as  
 comprehensive in its compassion as the ultra-sectarian Muslim world- 
 view is comprehensive in its detestation of all non-Muslims?


I've heard this line of thinking from Robert Thurmond too.  And yes I 
pray every day that Bush and his administration wises up, admits they've 
been terrible and resign.Likewise, that the Neocons realize it was a 
mistake to follow the teachings of Leo Strauss and disband.   Likewise 
that large  corporations realize they are bad for society and ask 
Congress to reinstitute the laws that existed up until the Civil War 
when corporations did not have the rights of an individual, had limited 
size and life.

Too much passive thinking is why India was overrun so many times.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] musicyahoo.com

2005-10-11 Thread Rick Archer
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] musicyahoo.com





on 10/11/05 2:33 PM, Mark at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

musicyahoo.com http://musicyahoo.com 

This is the future of the music listening experience for only $5.00 a month--over a million songs. 

I tried it and it's great!

I think you mean http://launch.yahoo.com/






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-11 Thread Vaj

On Oct 11, 2005, at 12:25 PM, Bhairitu wrote:

 Vaj wrote:



 On Oct 10, 2005, at 1:04 PM, anonymousff wrote:


 FWIW, in numerous lectures at the first Mallorca TTC, Jan-June,  
 1971,
 Maharishi told us (many times) that we should get rid of as many bad
 habits as possible before CC because they wouldn't go away just
 because we were enlightened. He said clearly we take our bad habits
 with us.

 This speaks volumes to me now, close to 35 years later, when we are
 all (or at least many) finally realizing that appearing to be
 saintly-whether strictly the *look* of saintliness, the pretty words
 of enlightenment from a real saint or a poseur-may be nothing but  
 the
 Emperor's new new clothes.



 Interesting point.

 It's different though as we approach Unity and the extinction of all
 phenomenon. There's actually a yogic saying on this which states
 Ascend with Conduct, Descend with the View. In other words, as your
 consciousness begins to assume the POV of Unity and begins to exhaust
 all it's karma, one's conduct--in terms of the karmic imprints one
 makes and the quality of ones actions--must be exemplary--so the
 conduct must rise. If you can do that, you will exhaust all karmic
 potentials.



 I guess if you are on a right hand path.  It's irrelevant in the left
 hand path.  However generally most left hand practitioners are good
 people so there is no problem.  As a matter of fact you won't be  
 given
 the instruction unless you are perceived as a good person but  
 there is
 not a list of rules to follow.

I am not describing rules but merely commenting on enlightened  
activity. One still needs to be aware of actions once one has  
reached the point where one picks and chooses which karmas to keep  
and which are no longer of use. This is beyond left or right.

Last time I looked, I still had both hands :-)...and really that's  
how I see the path. No hand path or both hand path.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] For the Love of Bush

2005-10-11 Thread Vaj

On Oct 11, 2005, at 12:39 PM, Bhairitu wrote:

 Too much passive thinking is why India was overrun so many times.

It's seems to be a blind tolerance as well. I'm thinking of the story  
I heard about the Hindus who accepted the Sufi saint, never realizing  
the reason the Sufi was a saint was because they had slaughtered so  
many infidel Hindus...


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-11 Thread Vaj

On Oct 11, 2005, at 12:25 PM, Bhairitu wrote:

 I guess if you are on a right hand path.  It's irrelevant in the left
 hand path.  However generally most left hand practitioners are good
 people so there is no problem.  As a matter of fact you won't be  
 given
 the instruction unless you are perceived as a good person but  
 there is
 not a list of rules to follow.

I forgot to add: even in the non-dual paths one is not free of one's  
actions if one has students. It's interesting that many do not seem  
to get interdependence.  You might have the cleanest hard-drive in  
the cosmos, but your best server friend next door is unfragged and  
has many bad sectors--what happens when you're connected by a quantum  
wireless connection? There is a saying among Dzogpachenpos which says  
'if you have many students, you will not attain the rainbow body' and  
indeed some of the greatest masters who had many students did not  
attain the Jalus--despite being beyond return and having exhausted  
their own karmas. Those who you initiate and they do not maintain  
their practice are connected to you like children. One of the reasons  
a teacher takes money or donations is that action, to a certain  
extent, relieves them of a certain amount of karma.

Sure you can get a certain amount of awakening or some minor state-- 
but you will not be able exhaust all human karma. Like I've said  
before here, when you meet someone who stops casting a shadow, ask  
them. IME most do not even seem to be aware that a state exists where  
one knows all their karma and gains the fine ability to chose.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-11 Thread Rick Archer
on 10/11/05 4:06 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Oct 11, 2005, at 12:25 PM, Bhairitu wrote:
 
 I guess if you are on a right hand path.  It's irrelevant in the left
 hand path.  However generally most left hand practitioners are good
 people so there is no problem.  As a matter of fact you won't be
 given
 the instruction unless you are perceived as a good person but
 there is
 not a list of rules to follow.
 
 I forgot to add: even in the non-dual paths one is not free of one's
 actions if one has students. It's interesting that many do not seem
 to get interdependence.  You might have the cleanest hard-drive in
 the cosmos, but your best server friend next door is unfragged and
 has many bad sectors--what happens when you're connected by a quantum
 wireless connection? There is a saying among Dzogpachenpos which says
 'if you have many students, you will not attain the rainbow body' and
 indeed some of the greatest masters who had many students did not
 attain the Jalus--despite being beyond return and having exhausted
 their own karmas. Those who you initiate and they do not maintain
 their practice are connected to you like children. One of the reasons
 a teacher takes money or donations is that action, to a certain
 extent, relieves them of a certain amount of karma.

Well that explains Maharishi then. Some teachers, such as Amma, say they'll
be happy to come back as long as needed for the sake of their devotees.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-11 Thread Vaj

On Oct 11, 2005, at 5:28 PM, Rick Archer wrote:

 on 10/11/05 4:06 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On Oct 11, 2005, at 12:25 PM, Bhairitu wrote:


 I guess if you are on a right hand path.  It's irrelevant in the  
 left
 hand path.  However generally most left hand practitioners are good
 people so there is no problem.  As a matter of fact you won't be
 given
 the instruction unless you are perceived as a good person but
 there is
 not a list of rules to follow.


 I forgot to add: even in the non-dual paths one is not free of one's
 actions if one has students. It's interesting that many do not seem
 to get interdependence.  You might have the cleanest hard-drive in
 the cosmos, but your best server friend next door is unfragged and
 has many bad sectors--what happens when you're connected by a quantum
 wireless connection? There is a saying among Dzogpachenpos which says
 'if you have many students, you will not attain the rainbow body' and
 indeed some of the greatest masters who had many students did not
 attain the Jalus--despite being beyond return and having exhausted
 their own karmas. Those who you initiate and they do not maintain
 their practice are connected to you like children. One of the reasons
 a teacher takes money or donations is that action, to a certain
 extent, relieves them of a certain amount of karma.


 Well that explains Maharishi then.

In what way do you mean that?



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-11 Thread Rick Archer
on 10/11/05 4:32 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I forgot to add: even in the non-dual paths one is not free of one's
 actions if one has students. It's interesting that many do not seem
 to get interdependence.  You might have the cleanest hard-drive in
 the cosmos, but your best server friend next door is unfragged and
 has many bad sectors--what happens when you're connected by a quantum
 wireless connection? There is a saying among Dzogpachenpos which says
 'if you have many students, you will not attain the rainbow body' and
 indeed some of the greatest masters who had many students did not
 attain the Jalus--despite being beyond return and having exhausted
 their own karmas. Those who you initiate and they do not maintain
 their practice are connected to you like children. One of the reasons
 a teacher takes money or donations is that action, to a certain
 extent, relieves them of a certain amount of karma.
 
 
 Well that explains Maharishi then.
 
 In what way do you mean that?

Taking in scads of money to relieve himself of the karma of having taken on
so many students, and perhaps the karma of how he has cared for or failed to
care for those students. Of course, I'm being somewhat facetious.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-11 Thread Vaj

On Oct 11, 2005, at 5:45 PM, Rick Archer wrote:

 on 10/11/05 4:32 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 I forgot to add: even in the non-dual paths one is not free of  
 one's
 actions if one has students. It's interesting that many do not seem
 to get interdependence.  You might have the cleanest hard- 
 drive in
 the cosmos, but your best server friend next door is unfragged and
 has many bad sectors--what happens when you're connected by a  
 quantum
 wireless connection? There is a saying among Dzogpachenpos which  
 says
 'if you have many students, you will not attain the rainbow  
 body' and
 indeed some of the greatest masters who had many students did not
 attain the Jalus--despite being beyond return and having exhausted
 their own karmas. Those who you initiate and they do not maintain
 their practice are connected to you like children. One of the  
 reasons
 a teacher takes money or donations is that action, to a certain
 extent, relieves them of a certain amount of karma.



 Well that explains Maharishi then.


 In what way do you mean that?


 Taking in scads of money to relieve himself of the karma of having  
 taken on
 so many students, and perhaps the karma of how he has cared for or  
 failed to
 care for those students. Of course, I'm being somewhat facetious.

Yeah, there's a certain point beyond which the reverse could be true!



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Actions of the Enlightened

2005-10-11 Thread Peter


--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 10/11/05 4:32 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
  
  I forgot to add: even in the non-dual paths one
 is not free of one's
  actions if one has students. It's interesting
 that many do not seem
  to get interdependence.  You might have the
 cleanest hard-drive in
  the cosmos, but your best server friend next
 door is unfragged and
  has many bad sectors--what happens when you're
 connected by a quantum
  wireless connection? There is a saying among
 Dzogpachenpos which says
  'if you have many students, you will not attain
 the rainbow body' and
  indeed some of the greatest masters who had many
 students did not
  attain the Jalus--despite being beyond return
 and having exhausted
  their own karmas. Those who you initiate and
 they do not maintain
  their practice are connected to you like
 children. One of the reasons
  a teacher takes money or donations is that
 action, to a certain
  extent, relieves them of a certain amount of
 karma.
  
  
  Well that explains Maharishi then.
  
  In what way do you mean that?
 
 Taking in scads of money to relieve himself of the
 karma of having taken on
 so many students, and perhaps the karma of how he
 has cared for or failed to
 care for those students. Of course, I'm being
 somewhat facetious.

Ahhh...several more incarnations for you, Grasshopper.


 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] For the Love of Bush

2005-10-11 Thread Peter
I'm always sending prayers to help our goofy king and
asking for the blessings of some heavy hitters to
grace his life.  By the way, have any of you asked for
the grace of all your spiritual teachers and mentally
bowed to each of them before you meditate? A whole new
world!

--- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 from Dr. Robert Svoboda's blog.
 
 September 17. 2005
 Visiting Ram Dass at his Maui home I noticed that
 (as had been  
 rumored) he does keep a photo of George W. Bush on
 his altar. That  
 photo reminded me, as it does him, that it is
 essential for all of us  
 to pray that the current world's most powerful man
 will be guided  
 to make the best decisions possible. In fact, it
 behooves all of us  
 to strive mightily to entreat the Celestial
 Powers-that-Be to render  
 astute our head of state.
 
 Perhaps it would be too much to request Providence
 to encourage those  
 of our leaders who actively identify themselves as
 Christians to  
 actively follow the path that Christ laid out for
 his disciples, e.g.  
 to sell all that they have and give the proceeds to
 the poor, to turn  
 the other cheek at every slight, and the like. Jesus
 advised us not  
 to judge, lest we be judged, and being myself no
 paragon of Christ- 
 like virtues I have no business judging anyone (even
 W). Of course, I  
 also try to keep my personal beliefs private, rather
 than trying to  
 drag Jesus into politics the way many of these
 leaders do; and this  
 current politicization of Christ (a problem which
 has dogged  
 Christianity almost since its inception) does I
 believe warrant comment.
 
 For example, how can one simultaneously claim to
 follow the Golden  
 Rule (do unto others as you would have them do unto
 you) and also  
 actively promote the doctrine of preemptive war
 (do unto others  
 BEFORE they do unto you)?
 
 Or, consider the words of Jesus as reported in
 Matthew 5:43-44:
 
 Ye have heard that it has been said, thou shalt
 love thy neighbor,  
 and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, love your
 enemies, bless  
 them that curse you, do good to them that hate you,
 and pray for them  
 which despitefully use you, and persecute you.
 
 I freely admit that, as of yet, I have been unable
 to love all my  
 enemies, and to do good to each of those who mean to
 do ill to me. I  
 have however found it immensely worthwhile to set
 these principles as  
 my goals, and try to live up to these high standards
 that Jesus  
 instructed us to attempt to meet-norms that make it
 injudicious for  
 anyone (even W) to condemn anyone else (even W).
 
 Which forces me to ask the question of why, when we
 have been thus  
 unmistakably directed to love our enemies, is so
 much hate being so  
 publicly directed toward those who are currently our
 enemies?  
 (Setting aside for the moment the issue of, if Osama
  Saddam were so  
 clearly evil, what caused us to support them as
 allies for so  
 long.) If we pray for our foes, why have we not yet
 had a national  
 day of prayer with an Osama focus? Why before Saddam
 was overthrown  
 was he routinely demonized, rather than loved and
 blessed? Why is  
 the do good to them that hate you option never
 even hinted at by  
 the Beltway born-again in the context of
 fundamentalist Islam?  
 Shouldn't such a clear directive receive at least a
 public hearing  
 among public Christians, if only to offer
 counterpoints to the  
 Muslim-baiting agitprop that has become so popular?
 Couldn't this  
 option also present a positive Christian perspective
 that would be as  
 comprehensive in its compassion as the
 ultra-sectarian Muslim world- 
 view is comprehensive in its detestation of all
 non-Muslims?
 
 





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[FairfieldLife] Doumbek

2005-10-11 Thread Peter
Bought a doumbek at Guitar Center last weekend. Man
that drum is cool. It's a middle eastern drum that
you hear playing for belly dancers. It produces a low,
resonant Dum and a high, ringing Tek. Lots of
rhythms on the internet to learn. Rick, have you
played one of these?  






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Re: [FairfieldLife] For the Love of Bush

2005-10-11 Thread Vaj

On Oct 11, 2005, at 6:01 PM, Peter wrote:

 I'm always sending prayers to help our goofy king and
 asking for the blessings of some heavy hitters to
 grace his life.  By the way, have any of you asked for
 the grace of all your spiritual teachers and mentally
 bowed to each of them before you meditate? A whole new
 world!

Guru-yoga dude, guru-yoga! New world indeed.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Doumbek

2005-10-11 Thread Rick Archer
on 10/11/05 5:07 PM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Bought a doumbek at Guitar Center last weekend. Man
 that drum is cool. It's a middle eastern drum that
 you hear playing for belly dancers. It produces a low,
 resonant Dum and a high, ringing Tek. Lots of
 rhythms on the internet to learn. Rick, have you
 played one of these?

Nope. David Hurlin came to our Amma satsang the other night. Best drummer in
town. He spent 6 months studying tabla in India. It was great to have him
there. I hope he makes a habit of it. I played ghatam along with him, but
I'm happy to be the manjira player
(http://chandrakantha.com/articles/indian_music/manjira.html).





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Doumbek

2005-10-11 Thread m2smart4u2000
-here is the most amazing doumbek player you have ever heard. check 
out his cd's. I took private lessons with him. absolutely astounding.
http://www.riqq.com/
Tobias roberson is his name.

-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Bought a doumbek at Guitar Center last weekend. Man
 that drum is cool. It's a middle eastern drum that
 you hear playing for belly dancers. It produces a low,
 resonant Dum and a high, ringing Tek. Lots of
 rhythms on the internet to learn. Rick, have you
 played one of these?  
 
 
 
 
 
   
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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Housing Bubble Beginning to Burst?

2005-10-11 Thread off_world_beings
Nonsense.
Mortgages are subject (by law) to a limit in interest rate 
increases, so the most you could see after the 5 year term is up is 
about 2%. It is not in the interest of the business of the mortgage 
company to always put the highest legal rate up every year, because 
you will just sell your mortgage to a more reasonable company. Sure 
your interest can go up, but it is not unmanagable, plus you can re-
mortgage. 

http://mortgages.interest.com/content/firsttime/ed-ab09.asp
HOW CAN I REDUCE MY RISK?
Besides an overall rate ceiling, most ARMs also have caps that 
protect borrowers from extreme increases in monthly payments. Others 
allow borrowers to convert an ARM to a fixed-rate mortgage. While 
these may offer real benefits, they may also cost more, or add 
special features, such as negative amortization. 

Interest-Rate Caps
An interest-rate cap places a limit on the amount your interest rate 
can increase. Interest caps come in two versions: 
Periodic caps, which limit the interest rate increase from one 
adjustment period to the next; and 

Overall caps, which limit the interest-rate increase over the life 
of the loan. 
By law, virtually all ARMs must have an overall cap. Many have a 
periodic interest rate cap. 
Let's suppose you have an ARM with a periodic interest rate cap of 
2%. At the first adjustment, the index rate goes up 3%. The example 
shows what happens. 

 ARM Interest Rate Monthly Payment
-- ---
First year @ 10%$570.42
2nd year @ 12% (without cap)$717.12
2nd year @ 12% (with cap)   $667.30

  Difference in 2nd year between payment
  with cap and payment without = $49.82


Secondly: You can always sell your house to a rich Arab or a rich 
Canadian or a rich German (Germany is much stronger than people are 
saying in the media)






--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 San Diego Housing Bubble Pops
 
 Tuesday, October 04, 2005
 
 Option Arm mortgages now account for over 75% of all mortgage
 originations for the month of September. I have never seen anything
 like this before.
 
 I attended two mortgage conventions this month and every broker I
 talked to said they were experiencing the same thing.
 
 Add fuel to the fire because the San Diego housing bubble has 
finally
 popped and I am sure much of the rest of the country will soon 
follow.
 The damage will be the worst disaster in recent U.S. history.
 
 The fixed rate refinance boom has transformed into the Option ARM
 refinance boom. This is the negative amortization loan that your
 monthly payment is based on a 1% loan for 40 years for the first 3 
to
 5 years and then it recasts at normal adjustable rates. This allows
 someone to purchase a $700,000 home with $35,000 down using a 
$560,000
 first mortgage with a starting payment of $1,415.99 plus an 
interest
 only second of $105,000 with a payment of $613.00.
 
 Put this together and you can buy a $700,000 home with $35,000 down
 and a monthly payment of $2,028.99. The same house would rent for
 around $2,500 a month, so the person buying justifies the purchase.
 The problem is when this loan recasts in 3 to 5 years, depending on
 how quickly interest rates rise, the new payment will be around
 $4,711.26 a month. That's right, the payment jumps from $2,028.99 
to
 $4,711.26 in less than 5 years, and if interest rates rise the 
payment
 could be higher! This is justified by I am planning on moving in 
less
 than 5 years anyway.
 
 This is only the beginning of the problem…
 
 Then because the house just sold for $700,000, an appraiser uses 
this
 house as a comparable on the next door neighbors refinance and this
 person only owes $250,000 because they bought several years ago 
when
 prices were lower. This person decides to tap into this inflated 
value
 and due a loan for $350,000 using an Option ARM so he can take out
 $100,000 to fuel the consumer spending bubble. His payment on his 
old
 mortgage was $1,500 per month, but because of this new super duper
 Option ARM loan he can get his $100,000 cash out and his new 
payment
 is only $885 per month. Now he can really blow up consumer spending
 and even use this extra money to invest in real estate. How 
about a
 nice condo in Florida?
 
 And the 3 to 5 year recast? (Which will be around $2,200 per month 
if
 rates don't rise) He figures he has another $350,000 in equity in 
his
 home so he can just keep refinancing every few years and knock his
 payment back down and don't forget real estate always goes up, so 
in
 ten years or so his house will be worth millions and he will 
probably
 just cash in and move into his Florida condo anyway.
 
 I disagree with all the experts… I don't see a soft landing. 
With
 all this funny money being pumped into the American consumers 
pockets,
 all you can expect to see if a drastic end to consumer spending. If
 you really think about it, this extra money is 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Part B Swami G answers Rasa

2005-10-11 Thread jim_flanegin
When I read this, I kept hearing it in the voice of Gangaji, and I 
know nothing of her, so I believe it is genuine. The one she is 
speaking to, Rasa, is also a woman, with a very unusual website to 
say the least(!) 

It occurs to me when reading all of this that those who set 
themselves up to be spiritual teachers take on as their dharma 
challenges such as this, which only serve to deepen their 
experience. Much as us householders struggle to complete projects on 
time. Same thing, really...

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  It doesn't sound like Gangaji to me. The exchange is
  pretty lame.
 
 My mistake, I guess.  Pretty lame to allow it 
 to go on this long, but if I were to vote for
 who is the most 'pseudo' in this particular
 discussion, it sure ain't the Advaitan.  :-)
 
  --- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   Re my rap earlier about megalomania, and about the 
   need/desire to be special, isn't that what this
   whole conversation is about?  This fellow (I can
   only assume it's a 'he') wants to be considered
   special because he has some kind of stigmata.
   Swami G (who I assume is Gangaji) keeps trying to
   remind him that liberation is achieved by NOT
   being special.  He freaks out, but keeps coming
   back for more, because in some weird way, his being
   knows that its specialness is not making him
   happy.  
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ron F
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
* I think exactly like Jesus, not exactly the way
   you do. You say
this is a lower form of Realization! You cannot
   refute saying this,
you have put it in black and white. This is the
   threat I am fighting
- not against myself as a personality, but
   something bigger.
Please don't push me down to where I am not!

G: fight what you want . there has been no
   threat against you
. No you do not think like Christ for Christ
   would not make
false statments against anyone . no one can
   put you
anywhere .. it is only your own mind which is
   constricted ...



* You cannot explain away Jesus and Ramakrishna,
   while it
is much easier to dismiss other saints, lesser
   knowns, and the
living, like myself.

G: have not attempted to dismiss any saints ..
   if you wish to
call yourself a saint fine . go for it ...


* I am the easiest for you to dispose of. Now look
   at your
attitude toward my Divine Stigmata. God keep me
   from any sort
of ego or pride, as I speak of 'myself.' Even as I
   say those words,
Swami condemns me as being of a lower nature - as
   one is
never allowed to say, 'me' 'my,' 'I' or anything
   that 
   differentiates or
separates.

G: as far as the stigmata - show it .. if
   it is within and 
   not
for the world then Shut up about it . for
   you are using it 
   as a
sense of pride.. if it is for the world then
   Show it ..


* But I am certain, Swami, that your bank account
   is under
YOUR name and not open to the public to draw from.

G: actually it is under the non-profits heading
   and no i don't
draw a salary from it . but what would a
   bank account have
to do with anything . again you are off on
   another side avenue
that has Nothing to do with anything ..


* I am sure that it is YOUR clothes that are
   hanging in your
closet, where others do not walk in and put on.

G: actually yes others do put them on .
   hahahahahaah

* And then there is YOUR apartment,

G: no --- am living at the ashram and Yes others
   do come
and go here .. it is open for anyone to walk
   in .

* YOUR car and the like. What do YOU say to that?

G: it is used to pick up guests at the airport and
   transporting
them wherever they need to go .

* There IS NO YOU? Shall we stop playing games
   here?

G: yes it would be nice if you would quit playing
   games ..
AGAIN RASA SEES A BODY -- SHE RELATES TO A
   FORM 
TAKING THE FORM TO BE THAT WHICH IS SEPARATE
this IS the mind of Duality ..

in this Consciousness there is always first and
   Foremost
the Stillness and Unborn Presence of Absolute
   - the stilled
point and from that Shakti or world comes into
   play dividing the
Light into lights  sounds  colors -
   experience . the
interaction takes place as motion --- sensation
   - when it ends
then again the stilled vastness is all
   encompassing . the
motion is Flow .. within this it is forever
   Not Two / Not 
   Two

When you are tired of playing games then Stop
   - and Be
Still - Let it all fall away . SEE 

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Housing Bubble Beginning to Burst?

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Nonsense.

And you base your apprisal on  a review of loan agreements for Opriosn
ARMS? Option ARMS are quite a different animal than traditional ARMS. 
To cite evidence about conventional ARMS as an argument about Option
ARMS is non-sensical. 


 Secondly: You can always sell your house to a rich Arab or a rich 
 Canadian or a rich German (Germany is much stronger than people are 
 saying in the media)

Are you implying such nationalities are stupid and will buy homes 30%
above prevailing market rates (if a bubble burst occurs). I thought
only certain eccentric Brits were that bonkers. :)


 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fwd: Part B Swami G answers Rasa

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 When I read this, I kept hearing it in the voice of Gangaji, and I 
 know nothing of her, so I believe it is genuine.



Thats quite a train of logic there.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: For the Love of Bush

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108
Bhairitu 
 Likewise 
 that large  corporations realize they are bad for society and ask 
 Congress to reinstitute the laws that existed up until the Civil War 
 when corporations did not have the rights of an individual, had
limited  size and life.

What is the advantage of a limited corporate life?

And how would the capital markets then function? Equity offerings
would be for a 10 year company? Currently public shares would be
converted to some limited life equity form?

Limit even that though might be sub optimal for a particular market at
a particular time? Let politicians determine optimal business unit sizing?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Housing Bubble Beginning to Burst?

2005-10-11 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
 
 Are you implying such nationalities are stupid and will buy homes 30%
 above prevailing market rates (if a bubble burst occurs). I thought
 only certain eccentric Brits were that bonkers. :)


Why not, we do it all the time in other countries that are poorer than 
us. Someone from a rich country doesn't really care if the house costs 
$10,000 and is only worth $7,000 to sell it again. If your theorized 
crash occurs then that makes the US poorer than some other countries 
who will be perfectly happy to buy property at the meagre prices they 
are seeing, wether there is a prevailing lower market rate or not. In 
fact, this very effect will be enough to keep house prices rising. We 
live in a global economy. The nouveau rich in Russia or Canada will 
come and buy your cheap little $300,000 dollar house in Boston. 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Housing Bubble Beginning to Burst?

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108
off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Nonsense.

And you base your apprisal on a review of loan agreements for Option
ARMS? Option ARMS are quite a different animal than traditional ARMS.
To cite evidence about conventional ARMS as an argument about Option
ARMS is non-sensical.


 Secondly: You can always sell your house to a rich Arab or a rich
 Canadian or a rich German (Germany is much stronger than people are
 saying in the media)

Are you implying such nationalities are stupid and will buy homes 30%
above prevailing market rates (if a bubble burst occurs). I thought
only certain eccentric Brits were that bonkers. :)








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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Housing Bubble Beginning to Burst?

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
 
  Are you implying such nationalities are stupid and will buy homes 30%
above prevailing market rates (if a bubble burst occurs). I thought 
only certain eccentric Brits were that bonkers. :)
 
 
 Why not, we do it all the time in other countries that are poorer
than  us. Someone from a rich country doesn't really care if the house
costs $10,000 and is only worth $7,000 to sell it again. 

Really! Quite shrewd investors these arab, canadian and russan friends
of yours.

 If your theorized  crash occurs then that makes the US poorer than
some other countries  who will be perfectly happy to buy property at
the meagre prices they are seeing, wether there is a prevailing lower
market rate or not. 

With prices dropping globally. They are -- from London to Austrailia
to Spain to China.


 In  fact, this very effect will be enough to keep house prices
rising. We live in a global economy. The nouveau rich in Russia or
Canada will come and buy your cheap little $300,000 dollar house in
Boston.

--

Actually foreign investors already have been aggresive buyers in hot
markets. And some are getting / may get caught in the bubble.


But, you being an astute investor, I will sell you a potfolio of
overpriced homes right now and you can make a killing on it selling it
to the market you you envision. I am sure you will put your money
where your mouth is. 






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[FairfieldLife] Bush Tax Panel Recommendations

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108
Bush may spearhead major tax reform that provides substantial growth
impetus to the economy. Proposals may include substantially reducing
one of the biggest sinkholes for productive capital, the home mortgage
deduction, and  offsetting that with elimination of double taxation of
investment income -- another current drain on productive capital. A
win/win tradeoff for long-run economic growth. Also proposed are the
elimination or restriction of tax preferences / incentives already
embedded in the law -- essentially corporate welfare -- this along
with the resulting simplification of the tax code is another great
boon for economic growth.


Bush Panel May Curb Tax Breaks for Homeowners, Health (Update3)

Oct. 11 (Bloomberg) -- President George W. Bush's tax advisory panel,
rejecting a fundamental overhaul, agreed to recommend limiting tax
breaks for homeowners and employer- provided health-care benefits to
help pay for repealing the alternative minimum tax.

The panel, meeting in Washington today, agreed the current $1 million
cap on deductible mortgage interest should be reduced, possibly to
about $350,000, and that the deduction should yield no more than a 25
percent tax savings, down from a top savings now of about 35 percent.

The panel also said it would probably recommend capping tax deductions
for employer-provided health-care plans. Current law allows employers
to deduct the value of premiums paid on behalf of their workers
without the benefit being considered taxable income to the employee.
The panel discussed placing the cap at the maximum amount the federal
government pays in premiums for its workers, currently about $11,000.

``These are the things we're looking at,'' said panel Vice Chairman
John Breaux, a Democrat and former senator from Louisiana. ``We have a
concept. We know where to go. We just don't have the details.''

Both changes would preserve the incentives for lower-and middle-income
workers while curbing them for wealthier Americans who are getting a
disproportionate benefit, panelists said.

Breaux said such ``tough choices'' would raise ``a generous amount''
of taxes to help offset the $1.3 trillion cost of repealing the
alternative minimum tax, he said. The minimum tax, imposed in 1969 to
ensure that 200 wealthy families didn't escape tax with excess
deductions, is now forcing millions of middle- income families to pay
higher taxes because it was never indexed for inflation.

No Sales Tax

The panel decided not to endorse a national sales tax in its final
recommendations and most panel members expressed reservations about a
European-style value-added tax, which is in place in most
industrialized countries.

Both systems would disproportionately hurt the poor, panelists said,
and some members such as Chairman Connie Mack, the former Republican
senator from Florida, and former Minnesota Representative Bill Frenzel
said they worry a value-added tax would make it too easy for the
government to raise money and increase spending programs.

Mack asked the panel's staff to devise a specific proposal that would
layer a value-added tax on the current system and reduce individual
and corporate income tax rates.

Still, he said that as the panel's work begins to wrap up, it's
looking more and more to making changes within the current system.

Value-Added Tax

``We're getting focused down on the income tax here,'' Mack said. In a
later interview, he added, ``I would be surprised if we were to
conclude that we want to offer a value-added tax proposal to the
president.''

The panel increasingly is looking to eliminate or restrict tax
preferences already embedded in the law. David Walker, the head of the
Government Accountability Office, said Sept. 23 that uncollected
revenue because of the incentives tripled since 1974 to $730 billion.
The biggest embedded tax breaks subsidize housing and health care,
Walker said.

The details of the mortgage interest and health care proposals will be
ironed out next week, Mack said. He said the proposals are ``clearly
redistributing'' the tax benefits for homeownership and health care to
lower-income Americans.

Lower-Income Homeowners

Tax breaks for homeownership particularly help the wealthy while
lower-income people don't get enough benefits, said panelists such as
Liz Ann Sonders, the chief investment officer at San Francisco-based
Charles Schwab Corp. The current incentives, including the fact that
most home sales are tax-free, are driving up home prices, making them
unaffordable or pushing lower-income borrowers to take out risky
mortgages.

``We are starting to see some significant pain here,'' Sonders said.

The panel agreed to a proposal by former IRS Commissioner Charles
Rossotti to make it easier for lower income Americans to get a tax
break for donating money to charity.

Investment Income

The panel may compensate wealthier Americans who lose some of those
benefits by reducing or repealing taxes on investment income. Mack
said that proposal would 

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Housing Bubble Beginning to Burst?

2005-10-11 Thread off_world_beings
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
  
   Are you implying such nationalities are stupid and will buy 
homes 30%
 above prevailing market rates (if a bubble burst occurs). I 
thought 
 only certain eccentric Brits were that bonkers. :)
  
  
  Why not, we do it all the time in other countries that are poorer
 than  us. Someone from a rich country doesn't really care if the 
house
 costs $10,000 and is only worth $7,000 to sell it again. 
 
 Really! Quite shrewd investors these arab, canadian and russan 
friends
 of yours.

Lol, your just not getting are you? They will be able to  afford to 
make a loss on a US home because, ubder your bubble bust theory they 
will be  rich compared to US, and they are not worried about 100,000 
here or there.

 
  If your theorized  crash occurs then that makes the US poorer 
than
 some other countries  who will be perfectly happy to buy property 
at
 the meagre prices they are seeing, wether there is a prevailing 
lower
 market rate or not. 
 
 With prices dropping globally. They are -- from London to 
Austrailia
 to Spain to China.


Jya...right. House prices have been dropping in China for a long 
time.jya right.


 
 
  In  fact, this very effect will be enough to keep house prices
 rising. We live in a global economy. The nouveau rich in Russia or
 Canada will come and buy your cheap little $300,000 dollar house in
 Boston.
 
 --
 
 Actually foreign investors already have been aggresive buyers in 
hot
 markets. And some are getting / may get caught in the bubble.


No, becuase, like any wise investor,  they know it is just a bubble 
and that eventually prices will start to rise again, along with 
wages.


 
 
 But, you being an astute investor, I will sell you a potfolio of
 overpriced homes right now and you can make a killing on it 
selling it to the market you you envision. I am sure you will put 
your money where your mouth is.



I am not talking about inverstors. Try reading more carefully. I am 
talking about 2 things: 
1. People who have bought their house to live in it and own it 
(rather than throwing 10,000 to 20,000 a year down the drain in rent 
money)
2. People spending some expendable cash on a second home in the US. 
There are plenty. Canada is a thriving economy not as tied to the US 
as people think. 

The whole point being that your bubble will not last under such 
supply and demand conditions. 
Maybe in some places there will be a fall but it will not be across 
the board, except for the fact that Bush's Quagmire will suck up 
money and resources for economic development, and another big 
disaste in US could rock things.

As long as there is an increasing population in an area there will 
be increasing house prices. Not that it is a big advantage to 
anyone , unless it is their business to buy and sell.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Housing Bubble Beginning to Burst?

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108
   
Are you implying such nationalities are stupid and will buy 
 homes 30% above prevailing market rates (if a bubble burst occurs).
I  thought only certain eccentric Brits were that bonkers. :)
   

   Why not, we do it all the time in other countries that are
poorer than  us. Someone from a rich country doesn't really care if
the  house  costs $10,000 and is only worth $7,000 to sell it again. 
  
  Really! Quite shrewd investors these arab, canadian and russan 
 friends of yours.
 
 Lol, your just not getting are you? They will be able to  afford to 
 make a loss on a US home because, ubder your bubble bust theory they 
 will be  rich compared to US, and they are not worried about 100,000 
 here or there.

I suggest you are not getting it, or simply poorly informed about the
housing markets in the US. First, how will foreign invesors, as a
class, be richer if  a global bubble occurs -- which is what what I am
suggesting. 

Even without such, most foreign investors are just that: investors --
looking for a return. In most major markets, the fundamentals are so
out of whack, the rent/mortgage rates (30-50%), and the affordability
rates (15% or so) that the probability of a positive return from
either rentals or selling appreciated property is fast becoming
minimal. Losses, large losses, are gaining a much higher probability.
If the foreign investors want to wait it out, 10 - 20 years while the
markets readjust, then fine, housing may be a good long-term
investment for such. But the current housing investor market is
generally much shorter term.


   If your theorized  crash occurs then that makes the US poorer 
 than some other countries  who will be perfectly happy to buy
property  at the meagre prices they are seeing, wether there is a
prevailing  lower market rate or not. 
 
  With prices dropping globally. They are -- from London to 
 Austrailia to Spain to China.
 
  
 Jya...right. House prices have been dropping in China for a long 
 time.jya right.

Actually thats a direct quote from the PBS Lehr News hour tonight.
There has been substantial state-financed overbuilding of upscale
condos in Peiking, Shanghai and other areas, and prices -- the report
said, have dropped 30% in the last couple of years.


   In  fact, this very effect will be enough to keep house prices
  rising. We live in a global economy. The nouveau rich in Russia or
  Canada will come and buy your cheap little $300,000 dollar house
in  Boston.

I am still waiting for you to buy the portfolio of overpriced
properties that I can structure for you. If you are not willing to 
buy, your points are just empty and uninformed idle banter.

  --
  
  Actually foreign investors already have been aggresive buyers in 
 hot markets. And some are getting / may get caught in the bubble.
 
 
 No, becuase, like any wise investor,  they know it is just a bubble 
 and that eventually prices will start to rise again, along with 
 wages.

Yes, wages have to go up 4 fold in order for 50% of the population to
be able to afford the median priced home in major markets. That will
take a while. Or prices will have to drop 30-40% 

And wise investors of course will try to buy at the bottom of a
market, not at its peak. 

 
  But, you being an astute investor, I will sell you a potfolio of
  overpriced homes right now and you can make a killing on it 
 selling it to the market you you envision. I am sure you will put 
 your money where your mouth is.

 
 I am not talking about inverstors. Try reading more carefully. I am 
 talking about 2 things: 


 1. People who have bought their house to live in it and own it 
 (rather than throwing 10,000 to 20,000 a year down the drain in rent 
 money)

I thought you were talking about people who are going to buy housing
at a 30% premium after the  market drops such. These by definition are
NOT people who have bought their house to live in it and own it .

How many of your rich canadian, arabs and russians are planning to
live and settle in their new US homes? 

The current market bubble has been driven by investors -- over 25%of
buyers. 


 2. People spending some expendable cash on a second home in the US. 
 There are plenty. Canada is a thriving economy not as tied to the US 
 as people think. 

And you are sugggesting that such a foreign second home in US market
is large and motivated enough to buy up all of the listed homes for
sale so that they do not lingering on the market with eventual price
drops. So where are they? That is already happening. Days on market is
already stretching out substantially, and prices are beginning to drop. 
  
 The whole point being that your bubble will not last under such 
 supply and demand conditions. 

First you suggest that sellers will be able to sell at curret prices
because of all of your envisioned foreign investors wanting second
homes in the US. If prices are stable there is no bubble (bursting).

Now you are suggest that there may be a bubble burst, 

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Housing Bubble Beginning to Burst?

2005-10-11 Thread off_world_beings

 I suggest you are not getting it, or simply poorly informed about 
the
 housing markets in the US. First, how will foreign invesors, as a
 class, be richer if  a global bubble occurs -- which is what what 
I am suggesting. 


The most ridiculous suggestion. There might be little green men on 
mars too. Gobal bubble burst. HOW?

 Even without such, most foreign investors are just that: 
investors -- looking for a return. In most major markets, the 
fundamentals are so out of whack, the rent/mortgage rates (30-50%), 
and the affordability rates (15% or so) that the probability of a 
positive return from either rentals or selling appreciated property 
is fast becoming minimal. Losses, large losses, are gaining a much 
higher probability. 


So you are saying less people will be able to buy a house so more 
people will be renting so rental acoomodation will become more 
scarce so rent prices will rise so people with mortgages can rent 
their place out and pay the mortgage. In addition renters will get 
fed up with rising rent which the market will bear unless there is 
mass unemployment on a scale not seen since the great depression. So 
renters will (as always) get fed up renting and will start buying so 
house prices will continuw to rise so there is no real bubble 
burstjust a normal market wiggle.


If the foreign investors want to wait it out, 10 - 20 years while 
the
 markets readjust, then fine, .

10 years+, as ALL intelligent investors look at it. Yes you have hit 
the nail on the head. There are million of intelligent investors in 
the world who look at gains over 10 to 15 yearsnot year by year. 
They year by year types are the ones that CAUSED the tech bubble in 
the late '90s.

housing may be a good long-term
 investment for such. But the current housing investor market is
 generally much shorter term.

Then tough luck to them. Most people are not in it to make a 
killing. Most people are in it to live in their own place and if 
they make monety great, but if not they at least don't throw 10 to 
20,000 a year down the drain in rent money. (100,000 to 200,000 lost 
in only 10 years). It is these people that are fueling the market. 

 
If your theorized  crash occurs then that makes the US 
poorer 
  than some other countries  who will be perfectly happy to buy
 property  at the meagre prices they are seeing, wether there is a
 prevailing  lower market rate or not. 
  
   With prices dropping globally. They are -- from London to 
  Austrailia to Spain to China.
  
   
  Jya...right. House prices have been dropping in China for a long 
  time.jya right.
 
 Actually thats a direct quote from the PBS Lehr News hour tonight.
 There has been substantial state-financed overbuilding of upscale
 condos in Peiking, Shanghai and other areas, and prices -- the 
report
 said, have dropped 30% in the last couple of years.


 
 
In  fact, this very effect will be enough to keep house 
prices
   rising. We live in a global economy. The nouveau rich in 
Russia or
   Canada will come and buy your cheap little $300,000 dollar 
house
 in  Boston.
 
 I am still waiting for you to buy the portfolio of overpriced
 properties that I can structure for you. If you are not willing to 
 buy, your points are just empty and uninformed idle banter


Yes Mr. Rich man. Sorry ain't got that kinda money to buy a bunch of 
houses, and I'm glad I don't. Most intelligent people don't want 
that much wealth, they just a house of their own and a car and a 
decent job they like with prospects and a decent pension. This is 
what most people actually want. Being rich is boring.


 Yes, wages have to go up 4 fold in order for 50% of the population 
to
 be able to afford the median priced home in major markets. That 
will
 take a while. Or prices will have to drop 30-40% 



True to some extent but mostly in California dude,  but not 
elsewhere. 

If a house is 250,000 then the monthly mortgage payment will be 
around $2,300 including property taxes. Most working couples (on say 
35,000 and 40,000 a year = 70,000 total) can just about afford that. 
And that is what mortgage companies look at. It is $24,000 a year, 
as opposed to about 15,000 a year they would have to pay in rent for 
something decent. With a bit of inginuity most working people can do 
it...though it has never been easy. Once they get older and are on 
45,000 plus 55,000, then it is getting easier and easier, plus the 
equity goes up over 10 years. 

If analysts such as the ones you are quoting are going by average 
saleries of a single person then they are not very good analysts. 
Working couples buy houses probably the mostand they fuel house 
price growth over time.

MAIN POINT: Most ordinary people understand the above 10 -15 year 
inverstment period, and they are fueling the house buying econmoy in 
the 150,000 to 450,000 range. Their logic will continue to fuel it .
(barring the black hole of Iraq and other disasters)

Without the 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: For the Love of Bush

2005-10-11 Thread Bhairitu
akasha_108 wrote:

Bhairitu 
  

Likewise 
that large  corporations realize they are bad for society and ask 
Congress to reinstitute the laws that existed up until the Civil War 
when corporations did not have the rights of an individual, had
limited  size and life.



What is the advantage of a limited corporate life?

  

The corporations wield too much power.   Unless you forgot this country 
was began as a rebellion against the British East India Company a rather 
large and powerful multinational.

And how would the capital markets then function? Equity offerings
would be for a 10 year company? Currently public shares would be
converted to some limited life equity form?
  

I believe before the Civil War 40 years was the limit.  Rockefeller was 
the one who in 1877 got New Jersey to extend the lifetime of a 
corporation.  Thom Hartmann wrote a book on it:
http://thomhartmann.com/unequalprotection.shtml

Limit even that though might be sub optimal for a particular market at
a particular time? Let politicians determine optimal business unit sizing?

  

I suppose if you are locked into capitalistic thinking then this all 
sounds horrible.  But so does a world run by the large corporations who 
have no more ability to rule than you or I.  Right now their batting 
average as far as the environment goes is not too good.




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[FairfieldLife] Harriet and George

2005-10-11 Thread feste37
She's in love with him. It's obvious. She says he's the most brilliant man 
she's 
ever met. Seen those letters? You're the greatest governor ever? So, what 
does it all mean? It means that Justice Miers, if such she becomes, will never 
make a decison on the Supreme Court that she thinks will displease Bush. 
Never. She just won't do it. 

Withdraw the nomination, I say, although I am not especially noted for my 
influence on Washington politics. 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bush Tax Panel Recommendations

2005-10-11 Thread m2smart4u2000
It seems that getting health insurance is just a losing game. 
S Corps cannot deduct, as an expense, health insurance paid for 
employees, C corps can deduct it. If you pay for your own health 
insurance and are self employeed, you can deduct it. Now they want to 
tax the health insurance benefit? This is weird. I read that the 
interest deduction would be limited to primary residence. 
Seems to me, that this change hurts the middle class, which is quickly 
dwindling.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: The Housing Bubble Beginning to Burst?

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108
Well, you certainly have an intresting POV. I hope it serves you well
and profitably.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 
  I suggest you are not getting it, or simply poorly informed about 
 the
  housing markets in the US. First, how will foreign invesors, as a
  class, be richer if  a global bubble occurs -- which is what what 
 I am suggesting. 
 
 
 The most ridiculous suggestion. There might be little green men on 
 mars too. Gobal bubble burst. HOW?
 
  Even without such, most foreign investors are just that: 
 investors -- looking for a return. In most major markets, the 
 fundamentals are so out of whack, the rent/mortgage rates (30-50%), 
 and the affordability rates (15% or so) that the probability of a 
 positive return from either rentals or selling appreciated property 
 is fast becoming minimal. Losses, large losses, are gaining a much 
 higher probability. 
 
 
 So you are saying less people will be able to buy a house so more 
 people will be renting so rental acoomodation will become more 
 scarce so rent prices will rise so people with mortgages can rent 
 their place out and pay the mortgage. In addition renters will get 
 fed up with rising rent which the market will bear unless there is 
 mass unemployment on a scale not seen since the great depression. So 
 renters will (as always) get fed up renting and will start buying so 
 house prices will continuw to rise so there is no real bubble 
 burstjust a normal market wiggle.
 
 
 If the foreign investors want to wait it out, 10 - 20 years while 
 the
  markets readjust, then fine, .
 
 10 years+, as ALL intelligent investors look at it. Yes you have hit 
 the nail on the head. There are million of intelligent investors in 
 the world who look at gains over 10 to 15 yearsnot year by year. 
 They year by year types are the ones that CAUSED the tech bubble in 
 the late '90s.
 
 housing may be a good long-term
  investment for such. But the current housing investor market is
  generally much shorter term.
 
 Then tough luck to them. Most people are not in it to make a 
 killing. Most people are in it to live in their own place and if 
 they make monety great, but if not they at least don't throw 10 to 
 20,000 a year down the drain in rent money. (100,000 to 200,000 lost 
 in only 10 years). It is these people that are fueling the market. 
 
  
 If your theorized  crash occurs then that makes the US 
 poorer 
   than some other countries  who will be perfectly happy to buy
  property  at the meagre prices they are seeing, wether there is a
  prevailing  lower market rate or not. 
   
With prices dropping globally. They are -- from London to 
   Austrailia to Spain to China.
   

   Jya...right. House prices have been dropping in China for a long 
   time.jya right.
  
  Actually thats a direct quote from the PBS Lehr News hour tonight.
  There has been substantial state-financed overbuilding of upscale
  condos in Peiking, Shanghai and other areas, and prices -- the 
 report
  said, have dropped 30% in the last couple of years.
 
 
  
  
 In  fact, this very effect will be enough to keep house 
 prices
rising. We live in a global economy. The nouveau rich in 
 Russia or
Canada will come and buy your cheap little $300,000 dollar 
 house
  in  Boston.
  
  I am still waiting for you to buy the portfolio of overpriced
  properties that I can structure for you. If you are not willing to 
  buy, your points are just empty and uninformed idle banter
 
 
 Yes Mr. Rich man. Sorry ain't got that kinda money to buy a bunch of 
 houses, and I'm glad I don't. Most intelligent people don't want 
 that much wealth, they just a house of their own and a car and a 
 decent job they like with prospects and a decent pension. This is 
 what most people actually want. Being rich is boring.
 
 
  Yes, wages have to go up 4 fold in order for 50% of the population 
 to
  be able to afford the median priced home in major markets. That 
 will
  take a while. Or prices will have to drop 30-40% 
 
 
 
 True to some extent but mostly in California dude,  but not 
 elsewhere. 
 
 If a house is 250,000 then the monthly mortgage payment will be 
 around $2,300 including property taxes. Most working couples (on say 
 35,000 and 40,000 a year = 70,000 total) can just about afford that. 
 And that is what mortgage companies look at. It is $24,000 a year, 
 as opposed to about 15,000 a year they would have to pay in rent for 
 something decent. With a bit of inginuity most working people can do 
 it...though it has never been easy. Once they get older and are on 
 45,000 plus 55,000, then it is getting easier and easier, plus the 
 equity goes up over 10 years. 
 
 If analysts such as the ones you are quoting are going by average 
 saleries of a single person then they are not very good analysts. 
 Working couples buy houses probably the mostand they fuel house 
 price growth over 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Bush Tax Panel Recommendations

2005-10-11 Thread anonymousff

 
 Tax breaks for homeownership particularly help the wealthy while
 lower-income people don't get enough benefits, said panelists such as
 Liz Ann Sonders, the chief investment officer at San Francisco-based
 Charles Schwab Corp. The current incentives, including the fact that
 most home sales are tax-free, are driving up home prices, making them
 unaffordable or pushing lower-income borrowers to take out risky
 mortgages.
 
 ``We are starting to see some significant pain here,'' Sonders said.
 
 The panel agreed to a proposal by former IRS Commissioner Charles
 Rossotti to make it easier for lower income Americans to get a tax
 break for donating money to charity.

This is just more pure b.s by the PResident and his cronies who are
easily the biggest crooks and liars and distorters of reality than
have ever run this country. Reading their b.s is like being on a bad
acid trip which I have had.

One of the benefits of owning a home for the lower income people is
the tax benefit. How many impoverised people are likely to increase
the money they donate?! 

What a bunch of amazingly crooked s**t.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: For the Love of Bush

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108
 What is the advantage of a limited corporate life?

 The corporations wield too much power.   

And thus the solution is too abolish them? 


Unless you forgot this country was began as a rebellion against the
British East India Companyvir a rather large and powerful multinational.

And thus all coorporations today are bad and should be disolved?

 I suppose if you are locked into capitalistic thinking then this all 
 sounds horrible.  

I am not locked into any thinking. I do favor things which works. The
capital markets (and the corporate structure enables them) are the
drivers of technology, innovation and growth. Not perfect, refinements
always needed. But its sad you can think of no other alternative than
to dissolve corporations and capital markets rather than reform them.

 Right now their batting 
 average as far as the environment goes is not too good.

And this is why they should be dissovled? Again thats a sad POV. 

Corporations, as well as individual proprietorships and partnerships
(should they be disolved too?), are bound by environmental laws and
regulation. Its primarily the governements fault, and ultimately the
voters, that such laws, regulations and incentive mechanisms are
weaker than optimal. 

If you want better environmental track records by corporations, tax
pollution, enact real vehicle efficiency standards -- including trucks
and SUVs, tax gasoline (on the order of $2/gal), enact a BTU and
carbon tax (which would affect electical, natural gas and coal
production), tax the full lifescyle costs  of nuclear mining and
waste, etc. In other words, incorporate the costs of pollution into
the cost of things that pollute. As economists say, Internalize the
externalities. 

If the above were done, corporations would have excellent environtal
records. And the overall economy would be more efficient, cleaner, and
growing at a faster rate (allowing more funding for things like
educations and health.)








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bush Tax Panel Recommendations

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, m2smart4u2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 It seems that getting health insurance is just a losing game. 
 S Corps cannot deduct, as an expense, health insurance paid for 
 employees, C corps can deduct it. If you pay for your own health 
 insurance and are self employeed, you can deduct it.
 Now they want to 
 tax the health insurance benefit? This is weird. 


There should be equal deductions across teh board for all types of
employees and business owners. The propose deduction cap is $11,000 /
year which covers most employees. It would simply cap some high cost
executive policies.



 I read that the 
 interest deduction would be limited to primary residence. 
 Seems to me, that this change hurts the middle class, which is 
 quickly   dwindling.

Tax incentives are intended to have a purpose -- not just a giveaway
to a large block of voters -- which mortgage deductibility has become.

The original and only sound economically justifiable intent is to
encourage INCREASED home ownership. That is, to subsidize the marginal
buyer, lower income, first time buyers -- entry level buyers. A
$350,000 mortgage deductibility cap does that in almost all markets. I
think its overkill, and should be limited to 100k. 

The deduction is a drag on the economy. It induces higher investments
in housing at the expense of capital investments which improve
[productivity -- which is the main driver of wage rates. Wages and
salaries, as well as the rate of technological innovation, are lower
than they could / should be, year after year, due to the high mortgage
deductibity limits which benefit the wealthy far more than the middle
class. As if we need an incentive for people to upgrade from a 4,000
sf house to a 6,000 sf house!









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[FairfieldLife] Re: Bush Tax Panel Recommendations

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
  
  Tax breaks for homeownership particularly help the wealthy while
  lower-income people don't get enough benefits, said panelists such as
  Liz Ann Sonders, 

[she is a total babe, btw]

the chief investment officer at San Francisco-based  Charles Schwab
Corp. The current incentives, including the fact that most home sales
are tax-free, are driving up home prices, making them  unaffordable or
pushing lower-income borrowers to take out risky
mortgages.

  ``We are starting to see some significant pain here,'' Sonders said.

  The panel agreed to a proposal by former IRS Commissioner Charles
  Rossotti to make it easier for lower income Americans to get a tax
  break for donating money to charity.

 
 This is just more pure b.s by the PResident and his cronies who are
 easily the biggest crooks and liars and distorters of reality than
 have ever run this country. Reading their b.s is like being on a bad
 acid trip which I have had.

And what specific tax policy recomendations do you disagree with. For
the most part, they look courageous and represent changes that are
long overdue.
 
 One of the benefits of owning a home for the lower income people is
 the tax benefit. 

And what is the economic benefic / justification for that? Without  
deductions above 350,000, house prices will fall, allowing greater
affordability. And the economy will be stronger, wages and salaries
will increase. Technology innovation will increase. Mortgage
deductions, except perhaps at the very lowest end, are quite unsound
from an economic policy perspective.

And a $350,000 cap will not affect the average US bmost buyers -- the
average and median priced home is still below $350,000


 
 What a bunch of amazingly crooked s**t.

I understand you are angry at Bush. Going beyond that, and focusing on
the the tax proposals,what specific tax policy recomendations do you
disagree with? 






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[FairfieldLife] Proclaiming ones enlightenment

2005-10-11 Thread tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis
This subject has had a lot of play here from time to time and I
thought the following quotation from the book I   Reality and
Subjectivity by David Hawkins was a very suscinct answer. Page 359

Questioner: There is confusion about the state of enlightenment and
about the individual to whom it happens or who is it that has
become enlightened. There is a common saying that the truly
enlightened being does not claim to be enlightened, so that anybody
who states that they are must be in error,

Answer: There is great difficulity in describing a condition that is
not within the experiental reality of the ego, and especially in
answering a question the asking of which stems from the dualistic
paradigm of reality of the questioner. An enlightened being *is* their
condition; thus, there is no purpose to make a 'claim'. That is an ego
view. 

The personal self does not become enlightened or transformed but
instead is assimilated, silenced, and replaced by a different
condition altogether.

Implied in the common saying that we are discussing is the belief that
to disclaim being enlightened is a form of modesty. This is a
projection of the spiritual ego of the originator of such a statement
for in the condition of enlightenment, no egotism remains. The state
is merely a simple fact; it is not an achievment. It has no merits or
anything which is laudatory that would require the posture of
pseudo-humility. In the naive spiritual community, there is much
adulation, charismatic glamour, and the importance attributed to
'enlightened masters', and the like.These are projections. To the
enlightened being, the state is merely the natural condition of how it is.

Tom T





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[FairfieldLife] Bill Leed hopes to attend tomorrow satsang what time is it?

2005-10-11 Thread WLeed3





I am leaving Tomorrow wed. @ 0500 I hope persently believe to 
attend your satsang is it seven PM or what 
time?





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[FairfieldLife] Untimely Deaths

2005-10-11 Thread Rick Archer
Title: Untimely Deaths





Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care to expand upon it?

I was struck a number of years by the legion of meditators, sidhas, 
initiators, governors, ministers, Purushas, Mother Divines, rajahs and 
other Movement potentates who had suffered untimely deaths. You 
mentioned several. After all, the number of hardcore meditators is 
really quite small, just a few thousands, I would think. I have worked 
for several organizations larger than that and cannot recall anywhere 
near a comparable percentage of people in their 40s or 50 croaking. That 
clearly is a very subjective estimation. I would like to see reliable 
statistics on the matter--you think Dr. Robert Keith Wallace would be 
interested in such a research topic??!!

What if we began our own accounting of such deaths? My start is the 
attached table. If you think it makes sense you might solicit names on FFL. 

Name Cause of Death Approx. Age* 
Dawn Casper breast cancer 50 
Kristi Kamins breast cancer 52 
Bobby Warren drowning 45 
Geo. Gleeson heart attack 45 
Margaret Cooper MS 60 
David Weiner testicular cancer 44 
Maxine Trzebiatowski breast cancer 45 
Kurleigh King Prostate cancer 
Doug Henning Liver Cancer 52 
Skip Alexander Liver Cancer 
Jane Hopson ALS (Lou Gerhirg's disease) 62 






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Bill Leed hopes to attend tomorrow satsang what time is it?

2005-10-11 Thread Rick Archer
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Bill Leed hopes to attend tomorrow satsang what time is it?





8pm. You know the address?


on 10/11/05 11:04 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I am leaving Tomorrow wed. @ 0500 I hope  persently believe to attend your satsang is it seven PM or what time?


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Untimely Deaths

2005-10-11 Thread akasha_108
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care to expand upon it?
 
 I was struck a number of years by the legion of meditators, sidhas,
 initiators, governors, ministers, Purushas, Mother Divines, rajahs and
 other Movement potentates who had suffered untimely deaths. You
 mentioned several. After all, the number of hardcore meditators is
 really quite small, just a few thousands, I would think. I have worked
 for several organizations larger than that and cannot recall anywhere
 near a comparable percentage of people in their 40s or 50 croaking. That
 clearly is a very subjective estimation. I would like to see reliable
 statistics on the matter--you think Dr. Robert Keith Wallace would be
 interested in such a research topic??!!
 
 What if we began our own accounting of such deaths? My start is the
 attached table. If you think it makes sense you might solicit names
on FFL.
 
   Name   Cause of Death   Approx. Age*
   Dawn Casper   breast cancer   50
   Kristi Kamins   breast cancer   52
   Bobby Warren   drowning   45
   Geo. Gleeson   heart attack   45
   Margaret Cooper   MS   60
   David Weiner   testicular cancer   44
   Maxine Trzebiatowski   breast cancer   45
   Kurleigh King   Prostate cancer
   Doug Henning   Liver Cancer   52
   Skip Alexander   Liver Cancer
   Jane Hopson   ALS (Lou Gerhirg's disease)   62


A few more come to mind

Andy Kaufman -- mouth cancer ?
Karen Blassdale -- brain tumor
Jane Prouty -- asfixiation (co heater)
Steve Shimmer -- ? was recently posted
Kent Ketterhoffen (sp) was posted a bit back

swiss girl just mentioned a few weeks ago

cc girl at MIU?

the marine, who wrote book, OD on herioin

Jack K? SF bay area, also heroin 

I remember a story of someone dying outside domes of heart attack, the
day after he saw top vaida guy

A while back a friend rattled off 3-4 people who died of AIDS, some
KSCI guys, and a guy married to Heidi?  

Seems like there are more that I have heard of but escape me at the
moment.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Untimely Deaths

2005-10-11 Thread gullible fool
 
Margaret Cooper   MS   60

Maybe I'm thinking of a different Margaret Norman, but
the one I know, part of the Cambridge center for a
while and a resident of my town before moving to ff
with husband Norman, was a lot younger than 60. I
thought she was 37 or so at the time.
  
There's also the audiovisual guy who was hit by
lightning while hiking up a mountain in Colorado.

Also, Goldfaber.

Also, Gary the insurance guy. Nally? 

--- akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Someone sent me the following note. Anyone care to
 expand upon it?
  
  I was struck a number of years by the legion of
 meditators, sidhas,
  initiators, governors, ministers, Purushas, Mother
 Divines, rajahs and
  other Movement potentates who had suffered
 untimely deaths. You
  mentioned several. After all, the number of
 hardcore meditators is
  really quite small, just a few thousands, I would
 think. I have worked
  for several organizations larger than that and
 cannot recall anywhere
  near a comparable percentage of people in their
 40s or 50 croaking. That
  clearly is a very subjective estimation. I would
 like to see reliable
  statistics on the matter--you think Dr. Robert
 Keith Wallace would be
  interested in such a research topic??!!
  
  What if we began our own accounting of such
 deaths? My start is the
  attached table. If you think it makes sense you
 might solicit names
 on FFL.
  
Name   Cause of Death   Approx. Age*
Dawn Casper   breast cancer   50
Kristi Kamins   breast cancer   52
Bobby Warren   drowning   45
Geo. Gleeson   heart attack   45
Margaret Cooper   MS   60
David Weiner   testicular cancer   44
Maxine Trzebiatowski   breast cancer   45
Kurleigh King   Prostate cancer
Doug Henning   Liver Cancer   52
Skip Alexander   Liver Cancer
Jane Hopson   ALS (Lou Gerhirg's disease)   62
 
 
 A few more come to mind
 
 Andy Kaufman -- mouth cancer ?
 Karen Blassdale -- brain tumor
 Jane Prouty -- asfixiation (co heater)
 Steve Shimmer -- ? was recently posted
 Kent Ketterhoffen (sp) was posted a bit back
 
 swiss girl just mentioned a few weeks ago
 
 cc girl at MIU?
 
 the marine, who wrote book, OD on herioin
 
 Jack K? SF bay area, also heroin 
 
 I remember a story of someone dying outside domes of
 heart attack, the
 day after he saw top vaida guy
 
 A while back a friend rattled off 3-4 people who
 died of AIDS, some
 KSCI guys, and a guy married to Heidi?  
 
 Seems like there are more that I have heard of but
 escape me at the
 moment.
 





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