Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Before the British Invasion
It didn't take long for this thread to turn into shit. Go figure. On 11/6/2013 6:30 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: The California dreamin' scene we both liked was maybe a false dawn? The paradisiacal image of a sunny, optimistic, carefree lifestyle that appealed to me was given the lie by the sordid revelations of the antics of Papa John Phillips of The Mamas the Papas. Turns out he was a fully-paid-up sleazeball. And Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys spent his life tormented by his personal demons and his musical vision could take a very dark turn. The superficial gloss of that Californian sound is probably what made some of the other FFL posters find more satisfaction in sardonic Dylan songs or the hard-edged Detroit scene. (Way, way too hard edged for me. Listening to MC5 playing Kick Out the Jams has always been a consciousness-lowering endurance test.) So the Wuthering Heights gothic, doomed-romanticism vibe with its perverse appeal is maybe a safer route to take. At least life won't disappoint you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI5qEQAvOcY ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Seraphita, I chuckled at your comment because I've been experiencing exactly what you're writing about. Why? Because of the weather! October was mostly glorious here, moderate temps, golden sunlight pouring down day after day, gentle breezes, blue skies, the leaves on trees bursting in crimson, peachy orange and saffron yellow. I reveled in walking around town, drinking in all of it. Now November is happening with rain and gusty winds, both of which have torn hundreds of leaves from trees. The bare branches are wet and loamy brown. I find myself drowning willingly in heavy, dark, gray clouds that sit swollen in the sky. They have their own kind of beauty which nourishes my soul. I may prefer sunny skies but I also love cloudy ones. Just grateful for that polarity, for being human, for being alive. On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 10:26 PM, s3raphita@... s3raphita@... wrote: Re And how about the California Dreamin music scene: Mamas and Papas, Beach Boys, etc: Yes. As a Brit they were the acts that most impressed me. They conjured up a paradisiacal image of a sunny, optimistic, carefree lifestyle very, very far removed from the cold, wet, repressed north east of England where I was growing up. I'm not complaining though, as I went to school a few miles from Haworth where Emily Brontë wrote Wuthering Heights and that kind of doomed-romanticism vibe has a perverse appeal of its own. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: And how about California dreamin music scene: Mamas and Papas, Beach Boys, etc. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: Before for the Beatles it was regional rock groups that were the scene in the US. There was Northwest Rock which included the Kingsmen, Sonics and way back the Ventures (playing their cover of a jazz tune Walk Don't Run). Then the northwest do-wap groups like the Fleetwoods (I played on a revival album they did). There was also an east coast scene, a Chicago area scene and New Orleans scene. These were often regional because the labels were regional without national distribution. Also before the Beatles let's not forget folk period which includes The Kingston Trio, Lamplighters (I backed them up once) and other spin offs. Those morphed into folk rock groups in the later 60s. Regional music scenes in the US would be a lot like European country's and their own scenes. Romance languages didn't translate well into rock so you have the soft muzak rock those countries created. On 11/05/2013 10:37 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita wrote: Yep, but we were talking about British imitation rock so Vince Taylor and Cliff Richard are two important pioneers in the UK. I'm guessing one reason they never made a name for themselves in the States is because Americans didn't need second-rate copies of their own stars. Couldn't have said it better. :-) Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time. There was no market perceived for it, so it didn't really exist. BTW, you find the same thing in France, but for another reason -- the language difference. Plus the fact that rock sounds *terrible* in French. Rap, it can handle, but rock, fuggedaboudit. In France, old pop stars like Francoise Hardy are still minor goddesses, but old rockers like Johnny Hallyday are major Gods, right up there with Thor. :-) The Beatles probably made it because they came along after rock 'n' roll's heyday and added enough original touches of their own to make it more appealing than the saccharine-sweet pop that had by then become the norm. Tell it, sista. The US pop music scene was really in its doldrums before the Beatles. Many
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Before the British Invasion
How dare you , Share, butting into the conversation abut early British rock music and posting about the weather and those California bands - like Crosby, Stills, and Nash and Young! This is just outrageous! LoL! On 11/6/2013 6:30 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: The California dreamin' scene we both liked was maybe a false dawn? The paradisiacal image of a sunny, optimistic, carefree lifestyle that appealed to me was given the lie by the sordid revelations of the antics of Papa John Phillips of The Mamas the Papas. Turns out he was a fully-paid-up sleazeball. And Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys spent his life tormented by his personal demons and his musical vision could take a very dark turn. The superficial gloss of that Californian sound is probably what made some of the other FFL posters find more satisfaction in sardonic Dylan songs or the hard-edged Detroit scene. (Way, way too hard edged for me. Listening to MC5 playing Kick Out the Jams has always been a consciousness-lowering endurance test.) So the Wuthering Heights gothic, doomed-romanticism vibe with its perverse appeal is maybe a safer route to take. At least life won't disappoint you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI5qEQAvOcY ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Seraphita, I chuckled at your comment because I've been experiencing exactly what you're writing about. Why? Because of the weather! October was mostly glorious here, moderate temps, golden sunlight pouring down day after day, gentle breezes, blue skies, the leaves on trees bursting in crimson, peachy orange and saffron yellow. I reveled in walking around town, drinking in all of it. Now November is happening with rain and gusty winds, both of which have torn hundreds of leaves from trees. The bare branches are wet and loamy brown. I find myself drowning willingly in heavy, dark, gray clouds that sit swollen in the sky. They have their own kind of beauty which nourishes my soul. I may prefer sunny skies but I also love cloudy ones. Just grateful for that polarity, for being human, for being alive. On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 10:26 PM, s3raphita@... s3raphita@... wrote: Re And how about the California Dreamin music scene: Mamas and Papas, Beach Boys, etc: Yes. As a Brit they were the acts that most impressed me. They conjured up a paradisiacal image of a sunny, optimistic, carefree lifestyle very, very far removed from the cold, wet, repressed north east of England where I was growing up. I'm not complaining though, as I went to school a few miles from Haworth where Emily Brontë wrote Wuthering Heights and that kind of doomed-romanticism vibe has a perverse appeal of its own. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: And how about California dreamin music scene: Mamas and Papas, Beach Boys, etc. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: Before for the Beatles it was regional rock groups that were the scene in the US. There was Northwest Rock which included the Kingsmen, Sonics and way back the Ventures (playing their cover of a jazz tune Walk Don't Run). Then the northwest do-wap groups like the Fleetwoods (I played on a revival album they did). There was also an east coast scene, a Chicago area scene and New Orleans scene. These were often regional because the labels were regional without national distribution. Also before the Beatles let's not forget folk period which includes The Kingston Trio, Lamplighters (I backed them up once) and other spin offs. Those morphed into folk rock groups in the later 60s. Regional music scenes in the US would be a lot like European country's and their own scenes. Romance languages didn't translate well into rock so you have the soft muzak rock those countries created. On 11/05/2013 10:37 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita wrote: Yep, but we were talking about British imitation rock so Vince Taylor and Cliff Richard are two important pioneers in the UK. I'm guessing one reason they never made a name for themselves in the States is because Americans didn't need second-rate copies of their own stars. Couldn't have said it better. :-) Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time. There was no market perceived for it, so it didn't really exist. BTW, you find the same thing in France, but for another reason -- the language difference. Plus the fact that rock sounds *terrible* in French. Rap, it can handle, but rock, fuggedaboudit. In France, old pop stars like Francoise Hardy are still minor goddesses, but old rockers like Johnny Hallyday are major Gods, right up there with Thor. :-) The Beatles probably made it because they came along after rock 'n' roll's heyday and added enough original touches of their own to make it more appealing than the
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Before the British Invasion
Richard, sorr! But I think the thread had become about regional music scenes in the US, which I find fascinating. And I find weather fascinating too. Don't shoot me, ok? (-: On Thursday, November 7, 2013 9:29 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: How dare you , Share, butting into the conversation abut early British rock music and posting about the weather and those California bands - like Crosby, Stills, and Nash and Young! This is just outrageous! LoL! On 11/6/2013 6:30 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: The California dreamin' scene we both liked was maybe a false dawn? The paradisiacal image of a sunny, optimistic, carefree lifestyle that appealed to me was given the lie by the sordid revelations of the antics of Papa John Phillips of The Mamas the Papas. Turns out he was a fully-paid-up sleazeball. And Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys spent his life tormented by his personal demons and his musical vision could take a very dark turn. The superficial gloss of that Californian sound is probably what made some of the other FFL posters find more satisfaction in sardonic Dylan songs or the hard-edged Detroit scene. (Way, way too hard edged for me. Listening to MC5 playing Kick Out the Jams has always been a consciousness-lowering endurance test.) So the Wuthering Heights gothic, doomed-romanticism vibe with its perverse appeal is maybe a safer route to take. At least life won't disappoint you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI5qEQAvOcY ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Seraphita, I chuckled at your comment because I've been experiencing exactly what you're writing about. Why? Because of the weather! October was mostly glorious here, moderate temps, golden sunlight pouring down day after day, gentle breezes, blue skies, the leaves on trees bursting in crimson, peachy orange and saffron yellow. I reveled in walking around town, drinking in all of it. Now November is happening with rain and gusty winds, both of which have torn hundreds of leaves from trees. The bare branches are wet and loamy brown. I find myself drowning willingly in heavy, dark, gray clouds that sit swollen in the sky. They have their own kind of beauty which nourishes my soul. I may prefer sunny skies but I also love cloudy ones. Just grateful for that polarity, for being human, for being alive. On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 10:26 PM, s3raphita@... s3raphita@... wrote: Re And how about the California Dreamin music scene: Mamas and Papas, Beach Boys, etc: Yes. As a Brit they were the acts that most impressed me. They conjured up a paradisiacal image of a sunny, optimistic, carefree lifestyle very, very far removed from the cold, wet, repressed north east of England where I was growing up. I'm not complaining though, as I went to school a few miles from Haworth where Emily Brontë wrote Wuthering Heights and that kind of doomed-romanticism vibe has a perverse appeal of its own. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: And how about California dreamin music scene: Mamas and Papas, Beach Boys, etc. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: Before for the Beatles it was regional rock groups that were the scene in the US. There was Northwest Rock which included the Kingsmen, Sonics and way back the Ventures (playing their cover of a jazz tune Walk Don't Run). Then the northwest do-wap groups like the Fleetwoods (I played on a revival album they did). There was also an east coast scene, a Chicago area scene and New Orleans scene. These were often regional because the labels were regional without national distribution. Also before the Beatles let's not forget folk period which includes The Kingston Trio, Lamplighters (I backed them up once) and other spin offs. Those morphed into folk rock groups in the later 60s. Regional music scenes in the US would be a lot like European country's and their own scenes. Romance languages didn't translate well into rock so you have the soft muzak rock those countries created. On 11/05/2013
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Before the British Invasion
Seraphita, I chuckled at your comment because I've been experiencing exactly what you're writing about. Why? Because of the weather! October was mostly glorious here, moderate temps, golden sunlight pouring down day after day, gentle breezes, blue skies, the leaves on trees bursting in crimson, peachy orange and saffron yellow. I reveled in walking around town, drinking in all of it. Now November is happening with rain and gusty winds, both of which have torn hundreds of leaves from trees. The bare branches are wet and loamy brown. I find myself drowning willingly in heavy, dark, gray clouds that sit swollen in the sky. They have their own kind of beauty which nourishes my soul. I may prefer sunny skies but I also love cloudy ones. Just grateful for that polarity, for being human, for being alive. On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 10:26 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: Re And how about the California Dreamin music scene: Mamas and Papas, Beach Boys, etc: Yes. As a Brit they were the acts that most impressed me. They conjured up a paradisiacal image of a sunny, optimistic, carefree lifestyle very, very far removed from the cold, wet, repressed north east of England where I was growing up. I'm not complaining though, as I went to school a few miles from Haworth where Emily Brontë wrote Wuthering Heights and that kind of doomed-romanticism vibe has a perverse appeal of its own. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: And how about California dreamin music scene: Mamas and Papas, Beach Boys, etc. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: Before for the Beatles it was regional rock groups that were the scene in the US. There was Northwest Rock which included the Kingsmen, Sonics and way back the Ventures (playing their cover of a jazz tune Walk Don't Run). Then the northwest do-wap groups like the Fleetwoods (I played on a revival album they did). There was also an east coast scene, a Chicago area scene and New Orleans scene. These were often regional because the labels were regional without national distribution. Also before the Beatles let's not forget folk period which includes The Kingston Trio, Lamplighters (I backed them up once) and other spin offs. Those morphed into folk rock groups in the later 60s. Regional music scenes in the US would be a lot like European country's and their own scenes. Romance languages didn't translate well into rock so you have the soft muzak rock those countries created. On 11/05/2013 10:37 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita wrote: Yep, but we were talking about British imitation rock so Vince Taylor and Cliff Richard are two important pioneers in the UK. I'm guessing one reason they never made a name for themselves in the States is because Americans didn't need second-rate copies of their own stars. Couldn't have said it better. :-) Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time. There was no market perceived for it, so it didn't really exist. BTW, you find the same thing in France, but for another reason -- the language difference. Plus the fact that rock sounds *terrible* in French. Rap, it can handle, but rock, fuggedaboudit. In France, old pop stars like Francoise Hardy are still minor goddesses, but old rockers like Johnny Hallyday are major Gods, right up there with Thor. :-) The Beatles probably made it because they came along after rock 'n' roll's heyday and added enough original touches of their own to make it more appealing than the saccharine-sweet pop that had by then become the norm. Tell it, sista. The US pop music scene was really in its doldrums before the Beatles. Many of the people who had grown up on it had gravitated to folk music because there was *energy* there, and there t'weren't none in pop. Then the Beatles arrived, preceded by a wave of near- hysterical media hype. I'm honestly not sure which con- tributed more to the Beatles' success in the US -- their talent, or the hype. I lean to the latter. See enough TV stories (or, in those days, movie News trailers before your movie) of star-struck Beatles fans and your young impressionable mind has already been pre-programmed to love them when you see them live. Still, it *was* a phenomenon in the US, Beatlemania. By the time it struck, I was a full-fledged folkie, both listening to and performing the real music, folk music performed by upscale white artists. :-) So they had to drag me away from my Dylan and Baez and the like to listen to a Beatles album. And to be honest, I wasn't knocked out at first by the sound. Even then, I was more fascinated by the *trend*, the fact that so many were so gaga over them. It took the Rolling Stones to knock my socks off. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Before the British Invasion
Suzi Quatro was born in Detroit, MI, USA and grew up there - her father worked for General Motors. Quatro moved to England in 1971. In 2010 she was voted into the Michigan Rock and Roll Legends online Hall of Fame. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzi_Quatro On 11/5/2013 9:55 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: Re Suzi Quatro -She is the first female bass player to become a major rock star.: Yeah, I liked Can the Can. Quatro made it as a star in the UK (and *not* the USA) of course. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: Detroit - Motor City Bands Suzi Quatro -She is the first female bass player to become a major rock star. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzi_Quatro Suzi Quatro - Can The Can, 1973: http://youtu.be/xYoogY-UGio Inline image 1 On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Share Long sharelong60@... mailto:sharelong60@... wrote: noozguru, let's not forget the Motor City music scene... On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 1:05 PM, Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote: Before for the Beatles it was regional rock groups that were the scene in the US. There was Northwest Rock which included the Kingsmen, Sonics and way back the Ventures (playing their cover of a jazz tune Walk Don't Run). Then the northwest do-wap groups like the Fleetwoods (I played on a revival album they did). There was also an east coast scene, a Chicago area scene and New Orleans scene. These were often regional because the labels were regional without national distribution. Also before the Beatles let's not forget folk period which includes The Kingston Trio, Lamplighters (I backed them up once) and other spin offs. Those morphed into folk rock groups in the later 60s. Regional music scenes in the US would be a lot like European country's and their own scenes. Romance languages didn't translate well into rock so you have the soft muzak rock those countries created. On 11/05/2013 10:37 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita wrote: Yep, but we were talking about British imitation rock so Vince Taylor and Cliff Richard are two important pioneers in the UK. I'm guessing one reason they never made a name for themselves in the States is because Americans didn't need second-rate copies of their own stars. Couldn't have said it better. :-) Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time. There was no market perceived for it, so it didn't really exist. BTW, you find the same thing in France, but for another reason -- the language difference. Plus the fact that rock sounds *terrible* in French. Rap, it can handle, but rock, fuggedaboudit. In France, old pop stars like Francoise Hardy are still minor goddesses, but old rockers like Johnny Hallyday are major Gods, right up there with Thor. :-) The Beatles probably made it because they came along after rock 'n' roll's heyday and added enough original touches of their own to make it more appealing than the saccharine-sweet pop that had by then become the norm. Tell it, sista. The US pop music scene was really in its doldrums before the Beatles. Many of the people who had grown up on it had gravitated to folk music because there was *energy* there, and there t'weren't none in pop. Then the Beatles arrived, preceded by a wave of near- hysterical media hype. I'm honestly not sure which con- tributed more to the Beatles' success in the US -- their talent, or the hype. I lean to the latter. See enough TV stories (or, in those days, movie News trailers before your movie) of star-struck Beatles fans and your young impressionable mind has already been pre-programmed to love them when you see them live. Still, it *was* a phenomenon in the US, Beatlemania. By the time it struck, I was a full-fledged folkie, both listening to and performing the real music, folk music performed by upscale white artists. :-) So they had to drag me away from my Dylan and Baez and the like to listen to a Beatles album. And to be honest, I wasn't knocked out at first by the sound. Even then, I was more fascinated by the *trend*, the fact that so many were so gaga over them. It took the Rolling Stones to knock my socks off. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Before the British Invasion
Other early and notable Detroit bands: The Stooges - Iggy Pop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stooges The Stooges performing in Austin, Texas, 2007: http://youtu.be/XL22_2g-4O8 [image: Inline image 1] Bob Seeger The Silver Bullet Band: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Seger Marshall Crenshaw: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Crenshaw MC5 - Motor City 5: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MC5 Mitch Ryder The Detroit Wheels: http://youtu.be/j9eWGdJIW74 Suzi Quatro: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzi_Quatro SRC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRC_(band) The Amboy Dukes w/Ted Nugent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Amboy_Dukes Teaearden and van Winkle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teegarden__Van_Winkle On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 9:21 AM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.comwrote: Suzi Quatro was born in Detroit, MI, USA and grew up there - her father worked for General Motors. Quatro moved to England in 1971. In 2010 she was voted into the Michigan Rock and Roll Legends online Hall of Fame. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzi_Quatro On 11/5/2013 9:55 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: Re Suzi Quatro -She is the first female bass player to become a major rock star.: Yeah, I liked Can the Can. Quatro made it as a star in the UK (and *not* the USA) of course. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... punditster@...wrote: Detroit - Motor City Bands Suzi Quatro -She is the first female bass player to become a major rock star. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzi_Quatro Suzi Quatro - Can The Can, 1973: http://youtu.be/xYoogY-UGio [image: Inline image 1] On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: noozguru, let's not forget the Motor City music scene... On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 1:05 PM, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Before for the Beatles it was regional rock groups that were the scene in the US. There was Northwest Rock which included the Kingsmen, Sonics and way back the Ventures (playing their cover of a jazz tune Walk Don't Run). Then the northwest do-wap groups like the Fleetwoods (I played on a revival album they did). There was also an east coast scene, a Chicago area scene and New Orleans scene. These were often regional because the labels were regional without national distribution. Also before the Beatles let's not forget folk period which includes The Kingston Trio, Lamplighters (I backed them up once) and other spin offs. Those morphed into folk rock groups in the later 60s. Regional music scenes in the US would be a lot like European country's and their own scenes. Romance languages didn't translate well into rock so you have the soft muzak rock those countries created. On 11/05/2013 10:37 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita wrote: Yep, but we were talking about British imitation rock so Vince Taylor and Cliff Richard are two important pioneers in the UK. I'm guessing one reason they never made a name for themselves in the States is because Americans didn't need second-rate copies of their own stars. Couldn't have said it better. :-) Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time. There was no market perceived for it, so it didn't really exist. BTW, you find the same thing in France, but for another reason -- the language difference. Plus the fact that rock sounds *terrible* in French. Rap, it can handle, but rock, fuggedaboudit. In France, old pop stars like Francoise Hardy are still minor goddesses, but old rockers like Johnny Hallyday are major Gods, right up there with Thor. :-) The Beatles probably made it because they came along after rock 'n' roll's heyday and added enough original touches of their own to make it more appealing than the saccharine-sweet pop that had by then become the norm. Tell it, sista. The US pop music scene was really in its doldrums before the Beatles. Many of the people who had grown up on it had gravitated to folk music because there was *energy* there, and there t'weren't none in pop. Then the Beatles arrived, preceded by a wave of near- hysterical media hype. I'm honestly not sure which con- tributed more to the Beatles' success in the US -- their talent, or the hype. I lean to the latter. See enough TV stories (or, in those days, movie News trailers before your movie) of star-struck Beatles fans and your young impressionable mind has already been pre-programmed to love them when you see them live. Still, it *was* a phenomenon in the US, Beatlemania. By the time it struck, I was a full-fledged folkie, both listening to and performing the real music, folk music performed by upscale white artists. :-) So they had to drag me away from my Dylan and Baez and the like to listen to a Beatles album. And to be honest, I wasn't knocked out at first by the sound. Even then, I was more fascinated by
[FairfieldLife] RE: Before the British Invasion
The California dreamin' scene we both liked was maybe a false dawn? The paradisiacal image of a sunny, optimistic, carefree lifestyle that appealed to me was given the lie by the sordid revelations of the antics of Papa John Phillips of The Mamas the Papas. Turns out he was a fully-paid-up sleazeball. And Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys spent his life tormented by his personal demons and his musical vision could take a very dark turn. The superficial gloss of that Californian sound is probably what made some of the other FFL posters find more satisfaction in sardonic Dylan songs or the hard-edged Detroit scene. (Way, way too hard edged for me. Listening to MC5 playing Kick Out the Jams has always been a consciousness-lowering endurance test.) So the Wuthering Heights gothic, doomed-romanticism vibe with its perverse appeal is maybe a safer route to take. At least life won't disappoint you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI5qEQAvOcY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI5qEQAvOcY ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Seraphita, I chuckled at your comment because I've been experiencing exactly what you're writing about. Why? Because of the weather! October was mostly glorious here, moderate temps, golden sunlight pouring down day after day, gentle breezes, blue skies, the leaves on trees bursting in crimson, peachy orange and saffron yellow. I reveled in walking around town, drinking in all of it. Now November is happening with rain and gusty winds, both of which have torn hundreds of leaves from trees. The bare branches are wet and loamy brown. I find myself drowning willingly in heavy, dark, gray clouds that sit swollen in the sky. They have their own kind of beauty which nourishes my soul. I may prefer sunny skies but I also love cloudy ones. Just grateful for that polarity, for being human, for being alive. On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 10:26 PM, s3raphita@... s3raphita@... wrote: Re And how about the California Dreamin music scene: Mamas and Papas, Beach Boys, etc: Yes. As a Brit they were the acts that most impressed me. They conjured up a paradisiacal image of a sunny, optimistic, carefree lifestyle very, very far removed from the cold, wet, repressed north east of England where I was growing up. I'm not complaining though, as I went to school a few miles from Haworth where Emily Brontë wrote Wuthering Heights and that kind of doomed-romanticism vibe has a perverse appeal of its own. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: And how about California dreamin music scene: Mamas and Papas, Beach Boys, etc. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: Before for the Beatles it was regional rock groups that were the scene in the US. There was Northwest Rock which included the Kingsmen, Sonics and way back the Ventures (playing their cover of a jazz tune Walk Don't Run). Then the northwest do-wap groups like the Fleetwoods (I played on a revival album they did). There was also an east coast scene, a Chicago area scene and New Orleans scene. These were often regional because the labels were regional without national distribution. Also before the Beatles let's not forget folk period which includes The Kingston Trio, Lamplighters (I backed them up once) and other spin offs. Those morphed into folk rock groups in the later 60s. Regional music scenes in the US would be a lot like European country's and their own scenes. Romance languages didn't translate well into rock so you have the soft muzak rock those countries created. On 11/05/2013 10:37 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita wrote: Yep, but we were talking about British imitation rock so Vince Taylor and Cliff Richard are two important pioneers in the UK. I'm guessing one reason they never made a name for themselves in the States is because Americans didn't need second-rate copies of their own stars. Couldn't have said it better. :-) Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time. There was no market perceived for it, so it didn't really exist. BTW, you find the same thing in France, but for another reason -- the language difference. Plus the fact that rock sounds *terrible* in French. Rap, it can handle, but rock, fuggedaboudit. In France, old pop stars like Francoise Hardy are still minor goddesses, but old rockers like Johnny Hallyday are major Gods, right up there with Thor. :-) The Beatles probably made it because they came along after rock 'n' roll's heyday and added enough original touches of their own to make it more appealing than the saccharine-sweet pop that had by then become the norm. Tell it, sista. The US pop music scene was really in its doldrums before the Beatles. Many of the people who had grown up on
[FairfieldLife] RE: Before the British Invasion
Wow! Thanks for that! Yep, Vince looked just like a rock 'n' roller should look like - and he could dance - and he had that dangerous vibe that is essential for scaring the parents of teenage girls. There's a decent 30-minute documentary on his career here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brFud1xXJNg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brFud1xXJNg! ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote: This first part of the clip is an amazing example of rubber legs and the folks doing the twist are positively straight out of The Twilight Zone. Fantastic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMlD-nxiM2U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMlD-nxiM2U ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Re According to John Lennon, Cliff Richard's hit 'Move It',1958, was the first authentic rock and roll song. According to John, before Cliff and the Shadows, there had been nothing worth listening to in British music.: Yes, that's right - nothing worth listening to in the rock'n'roll genre anyway. Move It is a neat song but it's crying out for someone with more charisma than Cliff Richard to sell it. The Brand New Cadillac song I linked to is closer in feel to a genuine rock classic. I mentioned that Vince Taylor's decline into drug paranoia (speed and LSD) was the model for David Bowie's fictional rock star Ziggy Stardust. Bowie's album came out in 1972. Here's Vince Taylor singing Brand New Cadillac in 1979. He carries the song with a certaim amphetamine cool but you can see he's on the highway to hell. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvNHXbTL7Oc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvNHXbTL7Oc
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Before the British Invasion
Some rock historians believe that Bill Haley's Rock Around the Clock, recorded on April 12, 1954, was the first rock song, followed by That's All Right by Elvis Presley, which was was recorded on July 5, 1954. Go figure. Bill Haley His Comets - Rock Around The Clock Bandstand 1960 http://youtu.be/N-qjc17KEsc Elvis Presley - That's All Right (Comeback Special '68): http://youtu.be/zVaBVZaS7So On 11/3/2013 3:40 PM, s3raph...@yahoo.com wrote: Re According to John Lennon, Cliff Richard's hit 'Move It',1958, was the first authentic rock and roll song. According to John, before Cliff and the Shadows, there had been nothing worth listening to in British music.: Yes, that's right - nothing worth listening to in the rock'n'roll genre anyway. Move It is a neat song but it's crying out for someone with more charisma than Cliff Richard to sell it. The Brand New Cadillac song I linked to is closer in feel to a genuine rock classic. I mentioned that Vince Taylor's decline into drug paranoia (speed and LSD) was the model for David Bowie's fictional rock star Ziggy Stardust. Bowie's album came out in 1972. Here's Vince Taylor singing Brand New Cadillac in 1979. He carries the song with a certaim amphetamine cool but you can see he's on the highway to hell. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvNHXbTL7Oc
[FairfieldLife] RE: Before the British Invasion
Some rock historians believe that Bill Haley's Rock Around the Clock, recorded on April 12, 1954, was the first rock song, followed by That's All Right by Elvis Presley, which was was recorded on July 5, 1954.: Yep, but we were talking about British imitation rock so Vince Taylor and Cliff Richard are two important pioneers in the UK. I'm guessing one reason they never made a name for themselves in the States is because Americans didn't need second-rate copies of their own stars. The Beatles probably made it because they came along after rock 'n' roll's heyday and added enough original touches of their own to make it more appealing than the saccharine-sweet pop that had by then become the norm. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: Some rock historians believe that Bill Haley's Rock Around the Clock, recorded on April 12, 1954, was the first rock song, followed by That's All Right by Elvis Presley, which was was recorded on July 5, 1954. Go figure. Bill Haley His Comets - Rock Around The Clock Bandstand 1960 http://youtu.be/N-qjc17KEsc http://youtu.be/N-qjc17KEsc Elvis Presley - That's All Right (Comeback Special '68): http://youtu.be/zVaBVZaS7So http://youtu.be/zVaBVZaS7So On 11/3/2013 3:40 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... wrote: Re According to John Lennon, Cliff Richard's hit 'Move It',1958, was the first authentic rock and roll song. According to John, before Cliff and the Shadows, there had been nothing worth listening to in British music.: Yes, that's right - nothing worth listening to in the rock'n'roll genre anyway. Move It is a neat song but it's crying out for someone with more charisma than Cliff Richard to sell it. The Brand New Cadillac song I linked to is closer in feel to a genuine rock classic. I mentioned that Vince Taylor's decline into drug paranoia (speed and LSD) was the model for David Bowie's fictional rock star Ziggy Stardust. Bowie's album came out in 1972. Here's Vince Taylor singing Brand New Cadillac in 1979. He carries the song with a certaim amphetamine cool but you can see he's on the highway to hell. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvNHXbTL7Oc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvNHXbTL7Oc
[FairfieldLife] Re: Before the British Invasion
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita wrote: Yep, but we were talking about British imitation rock so Vince Taylor and Cliff Richard are two important pioneers in the UK. I'm guessing one reason they never made a name for themselves in the States is because Americans didn't need second-rate copies of their own stars. Couldn't have said it better. :-) Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time. There was no market perceived for it, so it didn't really exist. BTW, you find the same thing in France, but for another reason -- the language difference. Plus the fact that rock sounds *terrible* in French. Rap, it can handle, but rock, fuggedaboudit. In France, old pop stars like Francoise Hardy are still minor goddesses, but old rockers like Johnny Hallyday are major Gods, right up there with Thor. :-) The Beatles probably made it because they came along after rock 'n' roll's heyday and added enough original touches of their own to make it more appealing than the saccharine-sweet pop that had by then become the norm. Tell it, sista. The US pop music scene was really in its doldrums before the Beatles. Many of the people who had grown up on it had gravitated to folk music because there was *energy* there, and there t'weren't none in pop. Then the Beatles arrived, preceded by a wave of near- hysterical media hype. I'm honestly not sure which con- tributed more to the Beatles' success in the US -- their talent, or the hype. I lean to the latter. See enough TV stories (or, in those days, movie News trailers before your movie) of star-struck Beatles fans and your young impressionable mind has already been pre-programmed to love them when you see them live. Still, it *was* a phenomenon in the US, Beatlemania. By the time it struck, I was a full-fledged folkie, both listening to and performing the real music, folk music performed by upscale white artists. :-) So they had to drag me away from my Dylan and Baez and the like to listen to a Beatles album. And to be honest, I wasn't knocked out at first by the sound. Even then, I was more fascinated by the *trend*, the fact that so many were so gaga over them. It took the Rolling Stones to knock my socks off. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Before the British Invasion
Before for the Beatles it was regional rock groups that were the scene in the US. There was Northwest Rock which included the Kingsmen, Sonics and way back the Ventures (playing their cover of a jazz tune Walk Don't Run). Then the northwest do-wap groups like the Fleetwoods (I played on a revival album they did). There was also an east coast scene, a Chicago area scene and New Orleans scene. These were often regional because the labels were regional without national distribution. Also before the Beatles let's not forget folk period which includes The Kingston Trio, Lamplighters (I backed them up once) and other spin offs. Those morphed into folk rock groups in the later 60s. Regional music scenes in the US would be a lot like European country's and their own scenes. Romance languages didn't translate well into rock so you have the soft muzak rock those countries created. On 11/05/2013 10:37 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita wrote: Yep, but we were talking about British imitation rock so Vince Taylor and Cliff Richard are two important pioneers in the UK. I'm guessing one reason they never made a name for themselves in the States is because Americans didn't need second-rate copies of their own stars. Couldn't have said it better. :-) Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time. There was no market perceived for it, so it didn't really exist. BTW, you find the same thing in France, but for another reason -- the language difference. Plus the fact that rock sounds *terrible* in French. Rap, it can handle, but rock, fuggedaboudit. In France, old pop stars like Francoise Hardy are still minor goddesses, but old rockers like Johnny Hallyday are major Gods, right up there with Thor. :-) The Beatles probably made it because they came along after rock 'n' roll's heyday and added enough original touches of their own to make it more appealing than the saccharine-sweet pop that had by then become the norm. Tell it, sista. The US pop music scene was really in its doldrums before the Beatles. Many of the people who had grown up on it had gravitated to folk music because there was *energy* there, and there t'weren't none in pop. Then the Beatles arrived, preceded by a wave of near- hysterical media hype. I'm honestly not sure which con- tributed more to the Beatles' success in the US -- their talent, or the hype. I lean to the latter. See enough TV stories (or, in those days, movie News trailers before your movie) of star-struck Beatles fans and your young impressionable mind has already been pre-programmed to love them when you see them live. Still, it *was* a phenomenon in the US, Beatlemania. By the time it struck, I was a full-fledged folkie, both listening to and performing the real music, folk music performed by upscale white artists. :-) So they had to drag me away from my Dylan and Baez and the like to listen to a Beatles album. And to be honest, I wasn't knocked out at first by the sound. Even then, I was more fascinated by the *trend*, the fact that so many were so gaga over them. It took the Rolling Stones to knock my socks off. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Before the British Invasion
noozguru, let's not forget the Motor City music scene... On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 1:05 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Before for the Beatles it was regional rock groups that were the scene in the US. There was Northwest Rock which included the Kingsmen, Sonics and way back the Ventures (playing their cover of a jazz tune Walk Don't Run). Then the northwest do-wap groups like the Fleetwoods (I played on a revival album they did). There was also an east coast scene, a Chicago area scene and New Orleans scene. These were often regional because the labels were regional without national distribution. Also before the Beatles let's not forget folk period which includes The Kingston Trio, Lamplighters (I backed them up once) and other spin offs. Those morphed into folk rock groups in the later 60s. Regional music scenes in the US would be a lot like European country's and their own scenes. Romance languages didn't translate well into rock so you have the soft muzak rock those countries created. On 11/05/2013 10:37 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita wrote: Yep, but we were talking about British imitation rock so Vince Taylor and Cliff Richard are two important pioneers in the UK. I'm guessing one reason they never made a name for themselves in the States is because Americans didn't need second-rate copies of their own stars. Couldn't have said it better. :-) Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time. There was no market perceived for it, so it didn't really exist. BTW, you find the same thing in France, but for another reason -- the language difference. Plus the fact that rock sounds *terrible* in French. Rap, it can handle, but rock, fuggedaboudit. In France, old pop stars like Francoise Hardy are still minor goddesses, but old rockers like Johnny Hallyday are major Gods, right up there with Thor. :-) The Beatles probably made it because they came along after rock 'n' roll's heyday and added enough original touches of their own to make it more appealing than the saccharine-sweet pop that had by then become the norm. Tell it, sista. The US pop music scene was really in its doldrums before the Beatles. Many of the people who had grown up on it had gravitated to folk music because there was *energy* there, and there t'weren't none in pop. Then the Beatles arrived, preceded by a wave of near- hysterical media hype. I'm honestly not sure which con- tributed more to the Beatles' success in the US -- their talent, or the hype. I lean to the latter. See enough TV stories (or, in those days, movie News trailers before your movie) of star-struck Beatles fans and your young impressionable mind has already been pre-programmed to love them when you see them live. Still, it *was* a phenomenon in the US, Beatlemania. By the time it struck, I was a full-fledged folkie, both listening to and performing the real music, folk music performed by upscale white artists. :-) So they had to drag me away from my Dylan and Baez and the like to listen to a Beatles album. And to be honest, I wasn't knocked out at first by the sound. Even then, I was more fascinated by the *trend*, the fact that so many were so gaga over them. It took the Rolling Stones to knock my socks off. :-)
RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Before the British Invasion
And how about California dreamin music scene: Mamas and Papas, Beach Boys, etc. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: Before for the Beatles it was regional rock groups that were the scene in the US. There was Northwest Rock which included the Kingsmen, Sonics and way back the Ventures (playing their cover of a jazz tune Walk Don't Run). Then the northwest do-wap groups like the Fleetwoods (I played on a revival album they did). There was also an east coast scene, a Chicago area scene and New Orleans scene. These were often regional because the labels were regional without national distribution. Also before the Beatles let's not forget folk period which includes The Kingston Trio, Lamplighters (I backed them up once) and other spin offs. Those morphed into folk rock groups in the later 60s. Regional music scenes in the US would be a lot like European country's and their own scenes. Romance languages didn't translate well into rock so you have the soft muzak rock those countries created. On 11/05/2013 10:37 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita wrote: Yep, but we were talking about British imitation rock so Vince Taylor and Cliff Richard are two important pioneers in the UK. I'm guessing one reason they never made a name for themselves in the States is because Americans didn't need second-rate copies of their own stars. Couldn't have said it better. :-) Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time. There was no market perceived for it, so it didn't really exist. BTW, you find the same thing in France, but for another reason -- the language difference. Plus the fact that rock sounds *terrible* in French. Rap, it can handle, but rock, fuggedaboudit. In France, old pop stars like Francoise Hardy are still minor goddesses, but old rockers like Johnny Hallyday are major Gods, right up there with Thor. :-) The Beatles probably made it because they came along after rock 'n' roll's heyday and added enough original touches of their own to make it more appealing than the saccharine-sweet pop that had by then become the norm. Tell it, sista. The US pop music scene was really in its doldrums before the Beatles. Many of the people who had grown up on it had gravitated to folk music because there was *energy* there, and there t'weren't none in pop. Then the Beatles arrived, preceded by a wave of near- hysterical media hype. I'm honestly not sure which con- tributed more to the Beatles' success in the US -- their talent, or the hype. I lean to the latter. See enough TV stories (or, in those days, movie News trailers before your movie) of star-struck Beatles fans and your young impressionable mind has already been pre-programmed to love them when you see them live. Still, it *was* a phenomenon in the US, Beatlemania. By the time it struck, I was a full-fledged folkie, both listening to and performing the real music, folk music performed by upscale white artists. :-) So they had to drag me away from my Dylan and Baez and the like to listen to a Beatles album. And to be honest, I wasn't knocked out at first by the sound. Even then, I was more fascinated by the *trend*, the fact that so many were so gaga over them. It took the Rolling Stones to knock my socks off. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Before the British Invasion
That all changed on January 13, 1965 when Dylan recorded Subterranean Homesick Blues, released on the album Bringing It All Back Home as the lead-off track, Dylan's first single to chart in the top 40 in the U.S.A. Positively 4th Street, a tribute to Bob Dylan Subterranean Home Sick: http://youtu.be/jNzv49cPde8 http://youtu.be/jNzv49cPde8 [image: Inline image 1] On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 12:37 PM, TurquoiseB turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita wrote: Yep, but we were talking about British imitation rock so Vince Taylor and Cliff Richard are two important pioneers in the UK. I'm guessing one reason they never made a name for themselves in the States is because Americans didn't need second-rate copies of their own stars. Couldn't have said it better. :-) Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time. There was no market perceived for it, so it didn't really exist. BTW, you find the same thing in France, but for another reason -- the language difference. Plus the fact that rock sounds *terrible* in French. Rap, it can handle, but rock, fuggedaboudit. In France, old pop stars like Francoise Hardy are still minor goddesses, but old rockers like Johnny Hallyday are major Gods, right up there with Thor. :-) The Beatles probably made it because they came along after rock 'n' roll's heyday and added enough original touches of their own to make it more appealing than the saccharine-sweet pop that had by then become the norm. Tell it, sista. The US pop music scene was really in its doldrums before the Beatles. Many of the people who had grown up on it had gravitated to folk music because there was *energy* there, and there t'weren't none in pop. Then the Beatles arrived, preceded by a wave of near- hysterical media hype. I'm honestly not sure which con- tributed more to the Beatles' success in the US -- their talent, or the hype. I lean to the latter. See enough TV stories (or, in those days, movie News trailers before your movie) of star-struck Beatles fans and your young impressionable mind has already been pre-programmed to love them when you see them live. Still, it *was* a phenomenon in the US, Beatlemania. By the time it struck, I was a full-fledged folkie, both listening to and performing the real music, folk music performed by upscale white artists. :-) So they had to drag me away from my Dylan and Baez and the like to listen to a Beatles album. And to be honest, I wasn't knocked out at first by the sound. Even then, I was more fascinated by the *trend*, the fact that so many were so gaga over them. It took the Rolling Stones to knock my socks off. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Before the British Invasion
The well known hit formula back then was to be a white group and write a Motown style tune. On 11/05/2013 11:24 AM, Share Long wrote: noozguru, let's not forget the Motor City music scene... On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 1:05 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Before for the Beatles it was regional rock groups that were the scene in the US. There was Northwest Rock which included the Kingsmen, Sonics and way back the Ventures (playing their cover of a jazz tune Walk Don't Run). Then the northwest do-wap groups like the Fleetwoods (I played on a revival album they did). There was also an east coast scene, a Chicago area scene and New Orleans scene. These were often regional because the labels were regional without national distribution. Also before the Beatles let's not forget folk period which includes The Kingston Trio, Lamplighters (I backed them up once) and other spin offs. Those morphed into folk rock groups in the later 60s. Regional music scenes in the US would be a lot like European country's and their own scenes. Romance languages didn't translate well into rock so you have the soft muzak rock those countries created. On 11/05/2013 10:37 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita wrote: Yep, but we were talking about British imitation rock so Vince Taylor and Cliff Richard are two important pioneers in the UK. I'm guessing one reason they never made a name for themselves in the States is because Americans didn't need second-rate copies of their own stars. Couldn't have said it better. :-) Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time. There was no market perceived for it, so it didn't really exist. BTW, you find the same thing in France, but for another reason -- the language difference. Plus the fact that rock sounds *terrible* in French. Rap, it can handle, but rock, fuggedaboudit. In France, old pop stars like Francoise Hardy are still minor goddesses, but old rockers like Johnny Hallyday are major Gods, right up there with Thor. :-) The Beatles probably made it because they came along after rock 'n' roll's heyday and added enough original touches of their own to make it more appealing than the saccharine-sweet pop that had by then become the norm. Tell it, sista. The US pop music scene was really in its doldrums before the Beatles. Many of the people who had grown up on it had gravitated to folk music because there was *energy* there, and there t'weren't none in pop. Then the Beatles arrived, preceded by a wave of near- hysterical media hype. I'm honestly not sure which con- tributed more to the Beatles' success in the US -- their talent, or the hype. I lean to the latter. See enough TV stories (or, in those days, movie News trailers before your movie) of star-struck Beatles fans and your young impressionable mind has already been pre-programmed to love them when you see them live. Still, it *was* a phenomenon in the US, Beatlemania. By the time it struck, I was a full-fledged folkie, both listening to and performing the real music, folk music performed by upscale white artists. :-) So they had to drag me away from my Dylan and Baez and the like to listen to a Beatles album. And to be honest, I wasn't knocked out at first by the sound. Even then, I was more fascinated by the *trend*, the fact that so many were so gaga over them. It took the Rolling Stones to knock my socks off. :-)
[FairfieldLife] RE: Before the British Invasion
Re Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time.: Good point. Re rock sounds *terrible* in French.: Yes, Johnny Hallyday certainly *looked* the part - but I can't recall a single song of his! ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita wrote: Yep, but we were talking about British imitation rock so Vince Taylor and Cliff Richard are two important pioneers in the UK. I'm guessing one reason they never made a name for themselves in the States is because Americans didn't need second-rate copies of their own stars. Couldn't have said it better. :-) Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time. There was no market perceived for it, so it didn't really exist. BTW, you find the same thing in France, but for another reason -- the language difference. Plus the fact that rock sounds *terrible* in French. Rap, it can handle, but rock, fuggedaboudit. In France, old pop stars like Francoise Hardy are still minor goddesses, but old rockers like Johnny Hallyday are major Gods, right up there with Thor. :-) The Beatles probably made it because they came along after rock 'n' roll's heyday and added enough original touches of their own to make it more appealing than the saccharine-sweet pop that had by then become the norm. Tell it, sista. The US pop music scene was really in its doldrums before the Beatles. Many of the people who had grown up on it had gravitated to folk music because there was *energy* there, and there t'weren't none in pop. Then the Beatles arrived, preceded by a wave of near- hysterical media hype. I'm honestly not sure which con- tributed more to the Beatles' success in the US -- their talent, or the hype. I lean to the latter. See enough TV stories (or, in those days, movie News trailers before your movie) of star-struck Beatles fans and your young impressionable mind has already been pre-programmed to love them when you see them live. Still, it *was* a phenomenon in the US, Beatlemania. By the time it struck, I was a full-fledged folkie, both listening to and performing the real music, folk music performed by upscale white artists. :-) So they had to drag me away from my Dylan and Baez and the like to listen to a Beatles album. And to be honest, I wasn't knocked out at first by the sound. Even then, I was more fascinated by the *trend*, the fact that so many were so gaga over them. It took the Rolling Stones to knock my socks off. :-) The French did have some modest (home) success with those yé-yé girls like France Gall. You must know the story of how Serge Gainsbourg cruelly set up France Gall with his composition Les Sucettes (Lollipops) with its (to us) blatant sexual innuendo. On the surface, the lyrics tell the innocent tale of a girl named Annie who enjoys lollipops. This is the stage show Gainsbourg also arranged. It shows what an innocent age it was that the 18-year-old Gall could perform on this set and still not realise she'd been well and truly pranked. A friend had to explain it to her later and Gall was mortified. Enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-iysdFu_TQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-iysdFu_TQ
[FairfieldLife] RE: Before the British Invasion
Re Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time.: Good point. Re rock sounds *terrible* in French.: Yes, Johnny Hallyday certainly *looked* the part - but I can't recall a single song of his! The French did have some modest (home) success with those yé-yé girls like France Gall. You must know the story of how Serge Gainsbourg cruelly set up France Gall with his composition Les Sucettes (Lollipops) with its (to us) blatant sexual innuendo. On the surface, the lyrics tell the innocent tale of a girl named Annie who enjoys lollipops. This is the stage show Gainsbourg also arranged. It shows what an innocent age it was that the 18-year-old Gall could perform on this set and still not realise she'd been well and truly pranked. A friend had to explain it to her later and Gall was mortified. Enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-iysdFu_TQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-iysdFu_TQ
[FairfieldLife] Re: Before the British Invasion
Fascinating. Here I am in France, and I try the video you posted, and I get: This video contains content from INA - Institut National de l'Audiovisuel, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.Sigh. I'm not really a Serge Gainsbourg buff, except for his taste in women, so I must search further to find this... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Re Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time.: Good point. Re rock sounds *terrible* in French.: Yes, Johnny Hallyday certainly *looked* the part - but I can't recall a single song of his! The French did have some modest (home) success with those yé-yé girls like France Gall. You must know the story of how Serge Gainsbourg cruelly set up France Gall with his composition Les Sucettes (Lollipops) with its (to us) blatant sexual innuendo. On the surface, the lyrics tell the innocent tale of a girl named Annie who enjoys lollipops. This is the stage show Gainsbourg also arranged. It shows what an innocent age it was that the 18-year-old Gall could perform on this set and still not realise she'd been well and truly pranked. A friend had to explain it to her later and Gall was mortified. Enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-iysdFu_TQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-iysdFu_TQ
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Before the British Invasion
Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels, Jenny Take a Ride! recorded in 1965 and Devil with a Blue Dress On 1966. Mitch Ryder The Detroit Wheels 1966 http://youtu.be/j9eWGdJIW74 Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels: John Badanjek - drums Joe Kubert - rhythm guitar Jim McCarty - lead guitar Jim McAllister - bass On 11/5/2013 1:24 PM, Share Long wrote: noozguru, let's not forget the Motor City music scene... On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 1:05 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Before for the Beatles it was regional rock groups that were the scene in the US. There was Northwest Rock which included the Kingsmen, Sonics and way back the Ventures (playing their cover of a jazz tune Walk Don't Run). Then the northwest do-wap groups like the Fleetwoods (I played on a revival album they did). There was also an east coast scene, a Chicago area scene and New Orleans scene. These were often regional because the labels were regional without national distribution. Also before the Beatles let's not forget folk period which includes The Kingston Trio, Lamplighters (I backed them up once) and other spin offs. Those morphed into folk rock groups in the later 60s. Regional music scenes in the US would be a lot like European country's and their own scenes. Romance languages didn't translate well into rock so you have the soft muzak rock those countries created. On 11/05/2013 10:37 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita wrote: Yep, but we were talking about British imitation rock so Vince Taylor and Cliff Richard are two important pioneers in the UK. I'm guessing one reason they never made a name for themselves in the States is because Americans didn't need second-rate copies of their own stars. Couldn't have said it better. :-) Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time. There was no market perceived for it, so it didn't really exist. BTW, you find the same thing in France, but for another reason -- the language difference. Plus the fact that rock sounds *terrible* in French. Rap, it can handle, but rock, fuggedaboudit. In France, old pop stars like Francoise Hardy are still minor goddesses, but old rockers like Johnny Hallyday are major Gods, right up there with Thor. :-) The Beatles probably made it because they came along after rock 'n' roll's heyday and added enough original touches of their own to make it more appealing than the saccharine-sweet pop that had by then become the norm. Tell it, sista. The US pop music scene was really in its doldrums before the Beatles. Many of the people who had grown up on it had gravitated to folk music because there was *energy* there, and there t'weren't none in pop. Then the Beatles arrived, preceded by a wave of near- hysterical media hype. I'm honestly not sure which con- tributed more to the Beatles' success in the US -- their talent, or the hype. I lean to the latter. See enough TV stories (or, in those days, movie News trailers before your movie) of star-struck Beatles fans and your young impressionable mind has already been pre-programmed to love them when you see them live. Still, it *was* a phenomenon in the US, Beatlemania. By the time it struck, I was a full-fledged folkie, both listening to and performing the real music, folk music performed by upscale white artists. :-) So they had to drag me away from my Dylan and Baez and the like to listen to a Beatles album. And to be honest, I wasn't knocked out at first by the sound. Even then, I was more fascinated by the *trend*, the fact that so many were so gaga over them. It took the Rolling Stones to knock my socks off. :-)
[FairfieldLife] RE: Before the British Invasion
Hilarious! So having reminded myself about France Gall I just searched for her on YouTube and came upon the little French girl singing Computer Nr 3 in German at a music contest. Check out the German audience and thank the Lord these guys didn't win the war. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf-n7YfRKqc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf-n7YfRKqc ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Here's a corker of a song by France Gall giving it the full yé-yé treatment - Laisse tomber les filles (English: Leave the girls alone) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVA670WKAQc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVA670WKAQc (Recently April March covered the same song as Chick Habit.) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Re Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time.: Good point. Re rock sounds *terrible* in French.: Yes, Johnny Hallyday certainly *looked* the part - but I can't recall a single song of his! The French did have some modest (home) success with those yé-yé girls like France Gall. You must know the story of how Serge Gainsbourg cruelly set up France Gall with his composition Les Sucettes (Lollipops) with its (to us) blatant sexual innuendo. On the surface, the lyrics tell the innocent tale of a girl named Annie who enjoys lollipops. This is the stage show Gainsbourg also arranged. It shows what an innocent age it was that the 18-year-old Gall could perform on this set and still not realise she'd been well and truly pranked. A friend had to explain it to her later and Gall was mortified. Enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-iysdFu_TQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-iysdFu_TQ
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Before the British Invasion
Detroit - Motor City Bands Suzi Quatro -She is the first female bass player to become a major rock star. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzi_Quatro Suzi Quatro - Can The Can, 1973: http://youtu.be/xYoogY-UGio [image: Inline image 1] On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com wrote: noozguru, let's not forget the Motor City music scene... On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 1:05 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Before for the Beatles it was regional rock groups that were the scene in the US. There was Northwest Rock which included the Kingsmen, Sonics and way back the Ventures (playing their cover of a jazz tune Walk Don't Run). Then the northwest do-wap groups like the Fleetwoods (I played on a revival album they did). There was also an east coast scene, a Chicago area scene and New Orleans scene. These were often regional because the labels were regional without national distribution. Also before the Beatles let's not forget folk period which includes The Kingston Trio, Lamplighters (I backed them up once) and other spin offs. Those morphed into folk rock groups in the later 60s. Regional music scenes in the US would be a lot like European country's and their own scenes. Romance languages didn't translate well into rock so you have the soft muzak rock those countries created. On 11/05/2013 10:37 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita wrote: Yep, but we were talking about British imitation rock so Vince Taylor and Cliff Richard are two important pioneers in the UK. I'm guessing one reason they never made a name for themselves in the States is because Americans didn't need second-rate copies of their own stars. Couldn't have said it better. :-) Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time. There was no market perceived for it, so it didn't really exist. BTW, you find the same thing in France, but for another reason -- the language difference. Plus the fact that rock sounds *terrible* in French. Rap, it can handle, but rock, fuggedaboudit. In France, old pop stars like Francoise Hardy are still minor goddesses, but old rockers like Johnny Hallyday are major Gods, right up there with Thor. :-) The Beatles probably made it because they came along after rock 'n' roll's heyday and added enough original touches of their own to make it more appealing than the saccharine-sweet pop that had by then become the norm. Tell it, sista. The US pop music scene was really in its doldrums before the Beatles. Many of the people who had grown up on it had gravitated to folk music because there was *energy* there, and there t'weren't none in pop. Then the Beatles arrived, preceded by a wave of near- hysterical media hype. I'm honestly not sure which con- tributed more to the Beatles' success in the US -- their talent, or the hype. I lean to the latter. See enough TV stories (or, in those days, movie News trailers before your movie) of star-struck Beatles fans and your young impressionable mind has already been pre-programmed to love them when you see them live. Still, it *was* a phenomenon in the US, Beatlemania. By the time it struck, I was a full-fledged folkie, both listening to and performing the real music, folk music performed by upscale white artists. :-) So they had to drag me away from my Dylan and Baez and the like to listen to a Beatles album. And to be honest, I wasn't knocked out at first by the sound. Even then, I was more fascinated by the *trend*, the fact that so many were so gaga over them. It took the Rolling Stones to knock my socks off. :-)
[FairfieldLife] RE: Before the British Invasion
Re Suzi Quatro -She is the first female bass player to become a major rock star.: Yeah, I liked Can the Can. Quatro made it as a star in the UK (and *not* the USA) of course. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: Detroit - Motor City Bands Suzi Quatro -She is the first female bass player to become a major rock star. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzi_Quatro http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzi_Quatro Suzi Quatro - Can The Can, 1973: http://youtu.be/xYoogY-UGio http://youtu.be/xYoogY-UGio On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Share Long sharelong60@... mailto:sharelong60@... wrote: noozguru, let's not forget the Motor City music scene... On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 1:05 PM, Bhairitu noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote: Before for the Beatles it was regional rock groups that were the scene in the US. There was Northwest Rock which included the Kingsmen, Sonics and way back the Ventures (playing their cover of a jazz tune Walk Don't Run). Then the northwest do-wap groups like the Fleetwoods (I played on a revival album they did). There was also an east coast scene, a Chicago area scene and New Orleans scene. These were often regional because the labels were regional without national distribution. Also before the Beatles let's not forget folk period which includes The Kingston Trio, Lamplighters (I backed them up once) and other spin offs. Those morphed into folk rock groups in the later 60s. Regional music scenes in the US would be a lot like European country's and their own scenes. Romance languages didn't translate well into rock so you have the soft muzak rock those countries created. On 11/05/2013 10:37 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita wrote: Yep, but we were talking about British imitation rock so Vince Taylor and Cliff Richard are two important pioneers in the UK. I'm guessing one reason they never made a name for themselves in the States is because Americans didn't need second-rate copies of their own stars. Couldn't have said it better. :-) Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time. There was no market perceived for it, so it didn't really exist. BTW, you find the same thing in France, but for another reason -- the language difference. Plus the fact that rock sounds *terrible* in French. Rap, it can handle, but rock, fuggedaboudit. In France, old pop stars like Francoise Hardy are still minor goddesses, but old rockers like Johnny Hallyday are major Gods, right up there with Thor. :-) The Beatles probably made it because they came along after rock 'n' roll's heyday and added enough original touches of their own to make it more appealing than the saccharine-sweet pop that had by then become the norm. Tell it, sista. The US pop music scene was really in its doldrums before the Beatles. Many of the people who had grown up on it had gravitated to folk music because there was *energy* there, and there t'weren't none in pop. Then the Beatles arrived, preceded by a wave of near- hysterical media hype. I'm honestly not sure which con- tributed more to the Beatles' success in the US -- their talent, or the hype. I lean to the latter. See enough TV stories (or, in those days, movie News trailers before your movie) of star-struck Beatles fans and your young impressionable mind has already been pre-programmed to love them when you see them live. Still, it *was* a phenomenon in the US, Beatlemania. By the time it struck, I was a full-fledged folkie, both listening to and performing the real music, folk music performed by upscale white artists. :-) So they had to drag me away from my Dylan and Baez and the like to listen to a Beatles album. And to be honest, I wasn't knocked out at first by the sound. Even then, I was more fascinated by the *trend*, the fact that so many were so gaga over them. It took the Rolling Stones to knock my socks off. :-)
[FairfieldLife] RE: Before the British Invasion
Re And how about the California Dreamin music scene: Mamas and Papas, Beach Boys, etc: Yes. As a Brit they were the acts that most impressed me. They conjured up a paradisiacal image of a sunny, optimistic, carefree lifestyle very, very far removed from the cold, wet, repressed north east of England where I was growing up. I'm not complaining though, as I went to school a few miles from Haworth where Emily Brontë wrote Wuthering Heights and that kind of doomed-romanticism vibe has a perverse appeal of its own. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: And how about California dreamin music scene: Mamas and Papas, Beach Boys, etc. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote: Before for the Beatles it was regional rock groups that were the scene in the US. There was Northwest Rock which included the Kingsmen, Sonics and way back the Ventures (playing their cover of a jazz tune Walk Don't Run). Then the northwest do-wap groups like the Fleetwoods (I played on a revival album they did). There was also an east coast scene, a Chicago area scene and New Orleans scene. These were often regional because the labels were regional without national distribution. Also before the Beatles let's not forget folk period which includes The Kingston Trio, Lamplighters (I backed them up once) and other spin offs. Those morphed into folk rock groups in the later 60s. Regional music scenes in the US would be a lot like European country's and their own scenes. Romance languages didn't translate well into rock so you have the soft muzak rock those countries created. On 11/05/2013 10:37 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita wrote: Yep, but we were talking about British imitation rock so Vince Taylor and Cliff Richard are two important pioneers in the UK. I'm guessing one reason they never made a name for themselves in the States is because Americans didn't need second-rate copies of their own stars. Couldn't have said it better. :-) Plus, the music industry mechanism really wasn't in place to allow for mass distribution of non-US acts at that time. There was no market perceived for it, so it didn't really exist. BTW, you find the same thing in France, but for another reason -- the language difference. Plus the fact that rock sounds *terrible* in French. Rap, it can handle, but rock, fuggedaboudit. In France, old pop stars like Francoise Hardy are still minor goddesses, but old rockers like Johnny Hallyday are major Gods, right up there with Thor. :-) The Beatles probably made it because they came along after rock 'n' roll's heyday and added enough original touches of their own to make it more appealing than the saccharine-sweet pop that had by then become the norm. Tell it, sista. The US pop music scene was really in its doldrums before the Beatles. Many of the people who had grown up on it had gravitated to folk music because there was *energy* there, and there t'weren't none in pop. Then the Beatles arrived, preceded by a wave of near- hysterical media hype. I'm honestly not sure which con- tributed more to the Beatles' success in the US -- their talent, or the hype. I lean to the latter. See enough TV stories (or, in those days, movie News trailers before your movie) of star-struck Beatles fans and your young impressionable mind has already been pre-programmed to love them when you see them live. Still, it *was* a phenomenon in the US, Beatlemania. By the time it struck, I was a full-fledged folkie, both listening to and performing the real music, folk music performed by upscale white artists. :-) So they had to drag me away from my Dylan and Baez and the like to listen to a Beatles album. And to be honest, I wasn't knocked out at first by the sound. Even then, I was more fascinated by the *trend*, the fact that so many were so gaga over them. It took the Rolling Stones to knock my socks off. :-)
[FairfieldLife] RE: Before the British Invasion
Re According to John Lennon, Cliff Richard's hit 'Move It',1958, was the first authentic rock and roll song. According to John, before Cliff and the Shadows, there had been nothing worth listening to in British music.: Yes, that's right - nothing worth listening to in the rock'n'roll genre anyway. Move It is a neat song but it's crying out for someone with more charisma than Cliff Richard to sell it. The Brand New Cadillac song I linked to is closer in feel to a genuine rock classic. I mentioned that Vince Taylor's decline into drug paranoia (speed and LSD) was the model for David Bowie's fictional rock star Ziggy Stardust. Bowie's album came out in 1972. Here's Vince Taylor singing Brand New Cadillac in 1979. He carries the song with a certaim amphetamine cool but you can see he's on the highway to hell. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvNHXbTL7Oc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvNHXbTL7Oc
