[FairfieldLife] Re: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[Pundit Sir]

A King never desires to be God Krishna, but a King would desire to be God's
servant. The very highest calling for anyone in the bhakti movement is to
serve the Lord. Ramakrishna once remarked that he wanted to taste sugar,
not be sugar. Thus the Vaishnavas came to be called 'rasiks', as in the
nectar of ambrosia. The rasiks then tried to reverse engineer the original
Sahajiya Buddhist philosophical system, and turned it upside down, calling
Sri Radha the 'active' female principle, and Krishna the 'static', in order
to represent the highest state of bliss. Go figure.


On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Richard J. Williams
pundits...@gmail.comwrote:

 So, since Krishna is the Absolute, he is in fact 'indescribably
 different', (Acyenta
 Bheda Bheda). At first this seems to be non-sensical, but if you think
 about it,
 it makes more sense, and if you remember what MMY said in CBG 1-6.

 According to MMY, Lord Krishna is the 'Transcendental Person', mentioned in
 Bhagavad Gita. That means that He is beyond, or transcendental to,
 phenomenon
 - the relative world of change.

 Many of the Vedantists who composed the Vedic literature were dualists or
 qualified-dualists, and others were mixed dualists and some were
 qualified-dualists. While all the Upanishadic thinkers were
 transcendentalists,
 not all of them ascribed to the Advaita philosophy, non-dualism.

 In fact, there is good reason to doubt the Advaita of the Adi
 Shankaracharya.
 Because many of these good fellows (sadhus) do not ascribe to the illusion
 theory, 'maya' proposed by the Adi. According to Sri Aurobindo, this
 Transcendental Person is not false - He is real, not an illusion.

 Isha Upanishad:

 The face of Truth is covered with a brilliant
 golden lid; that do thou remove O'Fosterer,
 for the law of the Truth, for sight. - Isha v 2

 The term 'Isha' refers to Ishvara, the cosmic person, Paramatman or
 Brahman.
 Ishvara is the supreme controller.

 Sri Aurobindo wrote that the Ultimate Reality is two fulls - 200% of each.
 One
 who knows nescience side-by-side with the transcendent, can pass beyond
 repeated birth and death, and can enjoy the full blessings of immortality.

 Work cited:

 'Isha Upanishad'
 Translation by Sri Aurobindo
 Sri Aurobindo Ashram Trust
 Pondicherry, India 1914

 Notes:

 nescience

 adjective

 from Latin nescient, present participle of nescire not to know, from ne-
 not + scire to know -- more at no, science.

 1. lack of knowledge or awareness
 2. ignorance

 Synonyms

 benightedness, cluelessness, incognizance, innocence, ignorance,
 obliviousness,
 unawareness, unfamiliarity

 Examples:

 The appalling nescience of today's high schoolers concerning
 international affairs.

 http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nescience

[FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[emptybill]

Reply to Iran I Tea
 

 Although I read Aurobindo's Life Divine and Synthesis of Yoga, the real heart 
of his yoga appeared in his collection known as Letters on Yoga. This 
collection that gave me the first taste of yoga-bhakti with its “opening 
upwards to the Adya Shakti” (i.e. the Divine Mother). The idea being that She 
would then begin to guide one’s personal sadhana. 
 In those collected letters there was much discussion about topics only found 
in certain Bhakti and Tantric texts. Aurobino generally didn’t talk much about 
those texts because “Tantra” was a dirty word in his day. 

 

 However, his first yoga teacher, Vishnu Bhaskar Lele, gave him a simple 
instruction that liberated his attachment to his mind and allowed unceasing, 
silent awareness to appear. It was an instruction based upon Samkhya-Yoga, 
although not in the Samkhya texts themselves. However, none of that alters the 
fact that Sri Aurobindo did not understand Shankara's subtle elucidation of the 
brahma-jñâna transmitted by the major Upanishads.
 

 For his part, MMY appeared to be very influenced by Swami Lakshmanjoo's 
Kashmiri Shaivism. Thus the Kashmiri theories of the causal transformations of 
Shiva/Shakti into the universe of duality appear in MMY’s Rig Bhasya as a 
self-referral causality. None of this is kevala advaita, although MMY didn't 
seem willing to say so.
 

 However, I would point out a few things you may be unaware of in these 
matters. 

 

 No one on FFL quotes Shankara’s commentary on the Bhagavad-Gita because no one 
here has read it.  MMY doesn’t refer to it, except maybe in one place (I don’t 
remember where). For Shankara’s part, he follows the Gita “as is” rather than 
artificially breaking it into three (3) parts. Instead he discusses the two 
nishta-s (not two paths but rather two different types of resolute-observance) 
– jñâna-yoga for the knowers (samkhyânâm) and karma-yoga for the practitioners 
of yoga (yoganâm). Bhakti does not constitute a separate observance in the Gita 
teaching because it is included and assumed as essential within these two 
nishta-s. 

 

 Also, few here comprehend that Shankara points directly to “awareness” as the 
key. That is to say not some yogic “pure awareness” (as if awareness somehow 
becomes impure because thoughts defile the mind). Nor was he asserting 
awareness “beyond thinking, some yogic nirvikalpa samâdhi. Rather, following 
the Upanishads, he asserted the primacy of awareness “as-such”, the very 
awareness we have throughout waking, dreaming, deep sleep. Following the 
Upanishadic declaration of satyam-jñânam-anatam (real, knowingness, unending) 
any of these terms are interchangeable doorways to immediately recognize the 
mahavakya - “That I am”. 

 

 So what is this “That”? Only Awareness - which is what we are … the rest is 
appearance … neither the same, nor different but rather an indivisible whole - 
also known more accurately as Brahman. 

 This is why Shankara recommended nididhyasana: the contemplation of one's own 
nature by tracing back the radiance of awareness to it's root and dispelling 
the idea that we are just the body, senses, mind, intellect. 

 

 So as a follow through, some catching-up is warranted. Thus, for those who 
might be interested (or not), here are some references:
 

 How To Attain Enlightenment (the vision of non-duality) by James Swartz (on 
Amazon). This is a funny title. But the book is an accurate account of Shankara 
teachings as transmitted by the traditional Advaita-Acharya, Swami Dayananada.
 

 Shankara’s commentary on the Bhagavad-Gîtâ, translated by Swami Gambhîrânanda, 
at Vedanta Press.
 

 Madhusûdana Saraswati’s annotation on the Bhagavad-Gîtâ called 
Gûdhârtha-Dîpikâ (also at Vedanta Press) which historically starts the 
interpretation lineage of using Patanjali to contextualize Advaita. However, 
Madhusûsana was both a consummate Kevala Advaitin (composing the famous but 
difficult Advaita-Siddhi) and a realized Krishna-bhaktin of intense devotion. 
In fact, his final views in the Advaita lineage are so complete that Shankara 
Advaitin-s no longer concern themselves with answering the objections of the 
various “schools of vendanta because Madhusûdana already has answered them.   
  
Welcome to the arena of examination. This is not Prairie Dog Vedanta.


 Iran I Tea sez:
 
 Wow, you read the Life Divine in 1966, that's really impressive, I wasn't even 
in puberty then. Maybe you should have done a re-read later on, it is difficult 
to imagine you could grasp the whole content then. Anyway, everybody has his 
own path. 
 
 I first heard of Mirra Alfassa in 1973, when she died, and I had just started 
TM. You could have visited her still.
 
 But I have to agree with Richard, that Kevala Advaita of Shankara represents 
only a fraction of the Indian philosophies. Maybe Aurobindo misinterpreted 
Shankara to some extend, but then how about Ramanuja and all the other 
Vaishnava Acharyas? Didn't they study 

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[Richard J. Williams]

Another crucial point about the Transcendental Person commented on by 
MMY inCBG is often missed - that Maharishi's typology is a Tantric 
rendering of the seven states, not a strictly Vedantic map,  advaita, 
dwaita, or vista-advaita.


The 'God Consciousness' described by Maharishi is based on Sri Vidya 
principles: The Absolute as the creative source - the divine Mother, 
Tripura, which is the main doctrine of both Sri Vidya and Kashmere 
Shivaism.


Tripura can be an anthropomorphic deity, but the subtler tantric 
practices are directed towards Tripura as the formless - that is, the 
fourth state which is beyond or transcendental to, the three gross 
states (three cities) symbolized by AUM in the Mandukya Upanishad and 
the cogent commentary by Gaudapadacharya.


In Sri Vidya, the Sri Yantra is the map of the seven states, which 
agrees with MMY's layout, with the bindu at the center. According to 
Tantra, the bindu is the highest state of transcendence.


Swami Rama on the Mandukya Upanishad:

2) Sarvam hyetad brahmayam-atma brahma soyamatma catushpat.

Atman has Four Aspects: All of this, everywhere,
is in truth Brahman, the Absolute Reality. This
very Self itself, Atman, is also Brahman, the
Absolute Reality. This Atman or Self has four
aspects through which it operates.

Work cited:

'Enlightenment Without God'
Mandukya Upanishad
By Swami Rama
Himalayan Institute Press, 1982

Other titles of interest:

'The Secret of the Three Cities'
An Introduction to Hindu Sakta Tantrism
By Douglas Renfrew Brooks
University Of Chicago Press, 1998

'The Triadic Heart of Siva'
Kaula Tantricism of Abhinavagupta in the Non-Dual Shaivism of Kashmir
By Paul Eduardo Muller-Ortega
State University of New York Press, 1989


On 10/5/2013 4:16 PM, iranitea wrote:


Wow, you read the Life Divine in 1966, that's really impressive, I 
wasn't even in puberty then. Maybe you should have done a re-read 
later on, it is difficult to imagine you could grasp the whole content 
then. Anyway, everybody has his own path.


I first heard of Mirra Alfassa in 1973, when she died, and I had just 
started TM. You could have visited her still.


But I have to agree with Richard, that Kevala Advaita of Shankara 
represents only a fraction of the Indian philosophies. Maybe Aurobindo 
misinterpreted Shankara to some extend, but then how about Ramanuja 
and all the other Vaishnava Acharyas? Didn't they study Shankara 
extensively? Also, basically all other, similar Indian systems of 
philosophy, like Shaiva Siddhanta of the south, Kashmir Shaivaism, and 
all the Tantras disagree with Shankara on the issue of Maya. So, 
Aurobindo is actually much closer to them, seeing Shakti, Mahamaya as 
a Divine creative force, much as Aurobindo defined it, only that he 
connected it with the idea of evolution. To say, I read Aurobindo in 
1966, and I'm done with him, is not at all doing justice to him, you 
would actually also experience what he describes, in order to 
understand him.


To me it seems that Maharishi makes quite a few allusions to 
Aurobinoen philosophy, in some of his more esoteric and advanced 
lectures, which usually not in the public domain. For example when he 
speaks of the realization of Shiva (the transcendent), Brahman, and 
finally the Divine Mother, going beyond the former two, and then adds, 
'and there is no end to the Divine Mother'. Which shows the influence 
of tantra and shaktism in his system. He also probably borrowed some 
of Aurobindo's thoughts, when he spoke about the absolute body. There 
he is probably more near to siddha philosophy and Aurobindo, than to 
Kevala Advaita. So, I think Richard is quite right.


Today is the first day of Navaratri. So cheers and Jai Guru Dev :-)



---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill@... wrote:

I'm not sure what you are claiming by these posting these quotes.


I started reading Autobindo's Life Divine and Synthesis of Yoga in the 
fall of 1966 when I was a freshman in college. After starting TM, we 
couldn't understand why MMY never referenced him. Now we know why. 
Aurobindo never understood Shankara’s Advaita but rather interpreted 
it in terms of 19^th -20^th Century Western Idealist philosophy.



By the way, all your quotes from A.C. Bhaktivendanta simply 
demonstrate how shallow your knowledge of the Gaudiya Vaishnava 
sampradaya is in the larger constellation of Indian darshanas. One of 
my friends was an early disciple of Prabhupad (1968). Over a 20 years 
period he spend 12 years traveling and doing sadhana in India. He also 
did specialized training in Pancharatra Vidhi in Udipi, South India to 
become a Western pujari. In fact he installed my own shivalingam with 
a traditional Pancharatra ceremony, replete with immense devashakti.



I have read Rupa Goswami, have you?


Wiki Willy may look impressive to people who don’t understand the 
principles involved but not much for those know even a little sad-dharma.



Wake up and smell the Prairie Dog ganja.



---In 

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[Richard J. Williams]

The term 'Isha' refers to Ishvara, the cosmic person, Paramatman or 
Brahman. Ishvara is the supreme controller. According to the Isha, those 
who are engaged in the worship of the demi-Gods enter into the darkest 
region of ignorance, and still more so do the worshipers of the 
impersonal Absolute alone. From what I've read, many of the adherents of 
Vedanta do not espouse the Advaita Vedanta, instead they follow other 
traditions. According to Sri Aurobindo, this Transcendental Person is 
not false - He is real, not an illusion.


So, where exactly did the non-dual notion enter into Indian polemics? If 
most of the seers taught dualism or qualified dualism, where did 
Shankara get the non-dualistic notions? Maybe Shankara got the maya idea 
from the Buddhists up in Kashmir. Go figure.


The term 'Trika' mean three - that comes from the idea that there are 
three levels of consciousness: waking, dreaming, and sleeping, and a 
fourth called the Transcendental state.


4. The Self is transcendental, immortal and beyond the mind and the senses.

Read more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isha_Upanishad

On 10/4/2013 9:19 PM, emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote:


I'm not sure what you are claiming by these posting these quotes.


I started reading Autobindo's Life Divine and Synthesis of Yoga in the 
fall of 1966 when I was a freshman in college. After starting TM, we 
couldn't understand why MMY never referenced him. Now we know why. 
Aurobindo never understood Shankara’s Advaita but rather interpreted 
it in terms of 19^th -20^th Century Western Idealist philosophy.



By the way, all your quotes from A.C. Bhaktivendanta simply 
demonstrate how shallow your knowledge of the Gaudiya Vaishnava 
sampradaya is in the larger constellation of Indian darshanas. One of 
my friends was an early disciple of Prabhupad (1968). Over a 20 years 
period he spend 12 years traveling and doing sadhana in India. He also 
did specialized training in Pancharatra Vidhi in Udipi, South India to 
become a Western pujari. In fact he installed my own shivalingam with 
a traditional Pancharatra ceremony, replete with immense devashakti.



I have read Rupa Goswami, have you?


Wiki Willy may look impressive to people who don’t understand the 
principles involved but not much for those know even a little sad-dharma.



Wake up and smell the Prairie Dog ganja.



---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote:

The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is 
completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal 
world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced 
of the Complete Whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the 
Complete Whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, 
He remains the complete balance. 


Invocation:
http://vedabase.com/en/iso

The Ultimate Reality is two fulls - 200% of each. One who knows 
nescience side-by-side with the transcendent, can pass beyond repeated 
birth and death, and can enjoy the full blessings of immortality.


Work cited:

'Isha Upanishad'
Translation by Sri Aurobindo
Sri Aurobindo Ashram Trust
Pondicherry, India 1914

On 10/4/2013 9:03 AM, iranitea wrote:

The commentary of the Isha Upanishad, actually a very short 
Upanishad, was later expanded by Aurobindo and served as the starting 
point of The Life Divine, which is really his magnum opus. You are 
right, he didn't subscribe to Shankaras Kevala, but would call his 
philosophy to be based on Bhedabheda.



Could you say, where you actually cite, and where you paraphrase? I 
didn't find : the Ultimate Reality is two fulls - 200% of each. One 
who knows nescience side-by-side with the transcendent,in his Isha 
commentary.




Richard wrote:

Because many of these good fellows (sadhus) do not ascribe to the 
illusion

theory, 'maya' proposed by the Adi. According to Sri Aurobindo, this
Transcendental Person is not false - He is real, not an illusion.

Isha Upanishad:

The face of Truth is covered with a brilliant
golden lid; that do thou remove O'Fosterer,
for the law of the Truth, for sight. - Isha v 2

The term 'Isha' refers to Ishvara, the cosmic person, Paramatman or
Brahman.
Ishvara is the supreme controller.

Sri Aurobindo wrote that the Ultimate Reality is two fulls - 200% of
each. One
who knows nescience side-by-side with the transcendent, can pass beyond
repeated birth and death, and can enjoy the full blessings of 
immortality.


Work cited:

'Isha Upanishad'
Translation by Sri Aurobindo
Sri Aurobindo Ashram Trust
Pondicherry, India 1914



---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... 
mailto:punditster@... wrote:


So, since Krishna is the Absolute, he is in fact 'indescribably
different', (Acyenta
Bheda Bheda). At first this seems to be non-sensical, but if you think
about it,
it makes more sense, and if you remember what MMY said in CBG 1-6.

According to MMY, Lord Krishna is the 'Transcendental 

[FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[emptybill]

[FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[iranitea]

[FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[iranitea]

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[Richard J. Williams]

The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is 
completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal 
world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced 
of the Complete Whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the 
Complete Whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He 
remains the complete balance. 


Invocation:
http://vedabase.com/en/iso

The Ultimate Reality is two fulls - 200% of each. One who knows 
nescience side-by-side with the transcendent, can pass beyond repeated 
birth and death, and can enjoy the full blessings of immortality.


Work cited:

'Isha Upanishad'
Translation by Sri Aurobindo
Sri Aurobindo Ashram Trust
Pondicherry, India 1914

On 10/4/2013 9:03 AM, iranitea wrote:


The commentary of the Isha Upanishad, actually a very short Upanishad, 
was later expanded by Aurobindo and served as the starting point of 
The Life Divine, which is really his magnum opus. You are right, he 
didn't subscribe to Shankaras Kevala, but would call his philosophy to 
be based on Bhedabheda.



Could you say, where you actually cite, and where you paraphrase? I 
didn't find : the Ultimate Reality is two fulls - 200% of each. One 
who knows nescience side-by-side with the transcendent,in his Isha 
commentary.




Richard wrote:

Because many of these good fellows (sadhus) do not ascribe to the illusion
theory, 'maya' proposed by the Adi. According to Sri Aurobindo, this
Transcendental Person is not false - He is real, not an illusion.

Isha Upanishad:

The face of Truth is covered with a brilliant
golden lid; that do thou remove O'Fosterer,
for the law of the Truth, for sight. - Isha v 2

The term 'Isha' refers to Ishvara, the cosmic person, Paramatman or
Brahman.
Ishvara is the supreme controller.

Sri Aurobindo wrote that the Ultimate Reality is two fulls - 200% of
each. One
who knows nescience side-by-side with the transcendent, can pass beyond
repeated birth and death, and can enjoy the full blessings of immortality.

Work cited:

'Isha Upanishad'
Translation by Sri Aurobindo
Sri Aurobindo Ashram Trust
Pondicherry, India 1914



---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote:

So, since Krishna is the Absolute, he is in fact 'indescribably
different', (Acyenta
Bheda Bheda). At first this seems to be non-sensical, but if you think
about it,
it makes more sense, and if you remember what MMY said in CBG 1-6.

According to MMY, Lord Krishna is the 'Transcendental Person', 
mentioned in

Bhagavad Gita. That means that He is beyond, or transcendental to,
phenomenon
- the relative world of change.

Many of the Vedantists who composed the Vedic literature were dualists or
qualified-dualists, and others were mixed dualists and some were
qualified-dualists. While all the Upanishadic thinkers were
transcendentalists,
not all of them ascribed to the Advaita philosophy, non-dualism.

In fact, there is good reason to doubt the Advaita of the Adi
Shankaracharya.
Because many of these good fellows (sadhus) do not ascribe to the illusion
theory, 'maya' proposed by the Adi. According to Sri Aurobindo, this
Transcendental Person is not false - He is real, not an illusion.

Isha Upanishad:

The face of Truth is covered with a brilliant
golden lid; that do thou remove O'Fosterer,
for the law of the Truth, for sight. - Isha v 2

The term 'Isha' refers to Ishvara, the cosmic person, Paramatman or
Brahman.
Ishvara is the supreme controller.

Sri Aurobindo wrote that the Ultimate Reality is two fulls - 200% of
each. One
who knows nescience side-by-side with the transcendent, can pass beyond
repeated birth and death, and can enjoy the full blessings of immortality.

Work cited:

'Isha Upanishad'
Translation by Sri Aurobindo
Sri Aurobindo Ashram Trust
Pondicherry, India 1914

Notes:

nescience

adjective

from Latin nescient, present participle of nescire not to know, from ne-
not + scire to know — more at no, science.

1. lack of knowledge or awareness
2. ignorance

Synonyms

benightedness, cluelessness, incognizance, innocence, ignorance,
obliviousness,
unawareness, unfamiliarity

Examples:

The appalling nescience of today's high schoolers concerning
international affairs.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nescience

[FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[emptybill]

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[Michael Jackson]

thank you for posting this - its much better than Willy Tex's inane ramblings - 
I'm gonna get this book - it looks interesting





 From: emptyb...@yahoo.com emptyb...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 10:16 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person
 


  
Prairie Dog! 

If you knew more you'd be embarrassed by your claims.

I've replied many times with the accurate and accepted scholarship that casts a 
harsh light on your antiquated conjectures. Your reply is a study in troll 
behaviors. You reply with Maybe so ... but and then continue repeating the 
same line.  

I have concluded that you really are just a type of troll ... with all the 
indications of dishonesty that term implies.

However, for the sake of anyone reading this follow, up here is a text that 
examines Gautama Buddha's meditation teachings in light of his own claimed 
Brahmanic gurus. 

The Origin of Buddhist Meditation  (Routledge Critical Studies in Buddhism) 
Alexander Wynne (Author) 
 
Publication Date: June 8, 2007 | ISBN-10:041554467X | ISBN-13:978-0415544672 | 
Edition: 1
 
Having
identified early material that goes back to the Buddha himself, the author
argues that the two teachers of the Buddha were historical figures. Based on
the early Brahminic literature, namely the early Upanishads and Moksadharma,
the author asserts the origin of the method of meditation learned by the Buddha
from these teachers, and attempts to use them to identify some authentic
teachings of the Buddha on meditation.

Stimulating
debate within the field of Buddhist Studies, the following claims are put
forward:
* the Buddha was taught by Alara Kalama and Uddaka Ramaputta, as stated 
in the literature of numerous early Buddhist sects, is historically authentic 
* 

* Alara Kalama and Uddaka Ramaputta taught a form of early Brahminic 
meditation 
* 

* the Buddha must consequently have been trained in a meditative school 
whose ideology was provided by the philosophical portions of early Upanishads
Shedding
new light on a fascinating aspect of the origins of Buddhism, this book will be
of interest to academics in the field of Buddhist studies, Asian religion and
South Asian studies. 


Willy Prairie Dog sez:

Around here, if it looks like a yoga and it feels like a yoga, then it probably 
is a yoga. If it's a yoga, then it's probably a Buddhist yoga. 
 
There was no yoga in India before the historical Buddha. TM looks
  like it is yoga to me, so it's probably Buddhist yoga of some
  kind. Go figure.
 
So, now we know the origin of the Buddhist yoga: in the Vajrayana
  sect of Mahayana Buddhism. According to what I've read, Vajrayana
  Buddhism was centered in Uddiyana, located in the modern day Swat
  Valley in what is now Kashmere, Pakistan and Afghanistan. The
  Tantric Buddhist yoga was imported into South Asia where it became
  Shaktism. 
 
Are you starting to follow the history now?
 
In 747 the Indian master Padmasambhava traveled from Afghanistan
  to bring Vajrayana Buddhism to Tibet and Bhutan, at the request of
  the king of Tibet... 

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[Richard J. Williams]

Alara Kalama and Uddaka Ramaputta, the teachers of the historical 
Buddha, of course were Sramanas of the Buddhist persuasion - that's why 
they were practicing yoga and meditation. Not because they were Hindus 
who reverted the Vedas.


There's no yoga mentioned in the Vedas - that came much later, and all 
the Upanishads were composed AFTER the Buddha's demise.


The similarity between the views of Gaudapada and Nagarjuna cannot be 
missed. Gaudapada himself acknowledges this when he says, There are 
some (shunyavadins) who uphold non-dualism (advayavada) and reject both 
the extreme views of being and non-being, of production and destruction 
and thus emphatically proclaim the doctrine of no-origination. We 
approve, says Gaudapada, of the doctrine of no-origination proclaimed 
by them.


Swami Nikhilananda on Mandukya Up:

From the fact that many Buddhist terms are used in explaining the 
fourth state, such as Sunyata or emptiness, it is clear that this 
commentary was written in an era when the concepts of the 
Mulamadhyamakakarika school of Mahayana Buddhism were influential and 
renowned.


Mandukya Upanishad:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandukya_Upanishad

On 10/1/2013 9:16 PM, emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote:


Prairie Dog!


If you knew more you'd be embarrassed by your claims.


I've replied many times with the accurate and accepted scholarship 
that casts a harsh light on your antiquated conjectures. Your reply is 
a study in troll behaviors. You reply with Maybe so ... but and then 
continue repeating the same line.



I have concluded that you really are just a type of troll ... with all 
the indications of dishonesty that term implies.



However, for the sake of anyone reading this follow, up here is a text 
that examines Gautama Buddha's meditation teachings in light of his 
own claimed Brahmanic gurus.



*The Origin of Buddhist Meditation (Routledge Critical Studies in 
Buddhism) *


Alexander Wynne 
http://www.amazon.com/Alexander-Wynne/e/B001JCEE2S/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_1/180-4305227-2750419 
(Author)


Publication Date: *June 8, 2007* | ISBN-10:*041554467X *| 
ISBN-13:*978-0415544672* | Edition: *1*


*
*

Having identified early material that goes back to the Buddha himself, 
the author argues that the two teachers of the Buddha were historical 
figures. Based on the early Brahminic literature, namely the early 
Upanishads and Moksadharma, the author asserts the origin of the 
method of meditation learned by the Buddha from these teachers, and 
attempts to use them to identify some authentic teachings of the 
Buddha on meditation.



Stimulating debate within the field of Buddhist Studies, the following 
claims are put forward:


  * the Buddha was taught by Alara Kalama and Uddaka Ramaputta, as
stated in the literature of numerous early Buddhist sects, is
historically authentic
 *

  * Alara Kalama and Uddaka Ramaputta taught a form of early Brahminic
meditation
 *

  * the Buddha must consequently have been trained in a meditative
school whose ideology was provided by the philosophical portions
of early Upanishads

Shedding new light on a fascinating aspect of the origins of Buddhism, 
this book will be of interest to academics in the field of Buddhist 
studies, Asian religion and South Asian studies.




Willy Prairie Dog sez:


Around here, if it looks like a yoga and it feels like a yoga, then it 
probably is a yoga. If it's a yoga, then it's probably a Buddhist yoga.


There was no yoga in India before the historical Buddha. TM looks like 
it is yoga to me, so it's probably Buddhist yoga of some kind. Go figure.


So, now we know the origin of the Buddhist yoga: in the Vajrayana sect 
of Mahayana Buddhism. According to what I've read, Vajrayana Buddhism 
was centered in Uddiyana, located in the modern day Swat Valley in 
what is now Kashmere, Pakistan and Afghanistan. The Tantric Buddhist 
yoga was imported into South Asia where it became Shaktism.


Are you starting to follow the history now?

In 747 the Indian master Padmasambhava traveled from Afghanistan to 
bring Vajrayana Buddhism to Tibet and Bhutan, at the request of the 
king of Tibet...






. 

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[Richard J. Williams]

The similarity between the views of Gaudapada and Nagarjuna cannot be 
missed. Gaudapada himself acknowledges this when he says, There are 
some (shunyavadins) who uphold non-dualism (advayavada) and reject both 
the extreme views of being and non-being, of production and destruction 
and thus emphatically proclaim the doctrine of no-origination. We 
approve, says Gaudapada, of the doctrine of no-origination proclaimed 
by them.


Gaudapada:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaudapada

Sharma, C. (1997). A Critical Survey of Indian Philosophy, Delhi: 
Motilal Banarsidass, ISBN 81-208-0365-5, p.239


On 10/2/2013 6:31 AM, Michael Jackson wrote:
thank you for posting this - its much better than Willy Tex's inane 
ramblings - I'm gonna get this book - it looks interesting




*From:* emptyb...@yahoo.com emptyb...@yahoo.com
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 1, 2013 10:16 PM
*Subject:* [FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

Prairie Dog!

If you knew more you'd be embarrassed by your claims.

I've replied many times with the accurate and accepted scholarship 
that casts a harsh light on your antiquated conjectures. Your reply is 
a study in troll behaviors. You reply with Maybe so ... but and then 
continue repeating the same line.


I have concluded that you really are just a type of troll ... with all 
the indications of dishonesty that term implies.


However, for the sake of anyone reading this follow, up here is a text 
that examines Gautama Buddha's meditation teachings in light of his 
own claimed Brahmanic gurus.


*The Origin of Buddhist Meditation (Routledge Critical Studies in 
Buddhism) *
Alexander Wynne 
http://www.amazon.com/Alexander-Wynne/e/B001JCEE2S/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_1/180-4305227-2750419 
(Author)
Publication Date: *June 8, 2007* | ISBN-10:*041554467X *| 
ISBN-13:*978-0415544672* | Edition: *1*

*
*
Having identified early material that goes back to the Buddha himself, 
the author argues that the two teachers of the Buddha were historical 
figures. Based on the early Brahminic literature, namely the early 
Upanishads and Moksadharma, the author asserts the origin of the 
method of meditation learned by the Buddha from these teachers, and 
attempts to use them to identify some authentic teachings of the 
Buddha on meditation.


Stimulating debate within the field of Buddhist Studies, the following 
claims are put forward:


  * the Buddha was taught by Alara Kalama and Uddaka Ramaputta, as
stated in the literature of numerous early Buddhist sects, is
historically authentic
 *

  * Alara Kalama and Uddaka Ramaputta taught a form of early Brahminic
meditation
 *

  * the Buddha must consequently have been trained in a meditative
school whose ideology was provided by the philosophical portions
of early Upanishads

Shedding new light on a fascinating aspect of the origins of Buddhism, 
this book will be of interest to academics in the field of Buddhist 
studies, Asian religion and South Asian studies.



Willy Prairie Dog sez:

Around here, if it looks like a yoga and it feels like a yoga, then it 
probably is a yoga. If it's a yoga, then it's probably a Buddhist yoga.


There was no yoga in India before the historical Buddha. TM looks like 
it is yoga to me, so it's probably Buddhist yoga of some kind. Go figure.


So, now we know the origin of the Buddhist yoga: in the Vajrayana sect 
of Mahayana Buddhism. According to what I've read, Vajrayana Buddhism 
was centered in Uddiyana, located in the modern day Swat Valley in 
what is now Kashmere, Pakistan and Afghanistan. The Tantric Buddhist 
yoga was imported into South Asia where it became Shaktism.


Are you starting to follow the history now?

In 747 the Indian master Padmasambhava traveled from Afghanistan to 
bring Vajrayana Buddhism to Tibet and Bhutan, at the request of the 
king of Tibet...

[FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[emptybill]

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[Richard J. Williams]

Most respectfully, Sir, your statement is mostly baseless and almost 
totally without merit. Further, it is misleading, nonsensical and 
therefore deserves little or no comment. Kevala Advaita is a restatement 
of the Buddhist Vijnanavada, with the injection of the category Brahman.


All the Indian  Upanishadic thinkers were transcendentalists, but not 
all of them followed the advaitavada, such as Ramanuja, Madhva, 
Vallabha, and Nimbarka. That's my point.


According to the Hindu scriptures, Lord Krishna is personified Bliss of 
Brahman which is identical to the Paramatman described in the Sutra 
Bhaysa of Sri Shankaracharya: Brahman is what everything comes from. 
(VS I.1.2).


On 9/28/2013 3:37 PM, emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote:


Wake up and try to get it right (rtam).

The term is achintya bheda-abheda and means unthinkable difference 
and non-difference.


It is the name that the follower of Chaitanya devised to
explain what he meant.

Your understanding of Shankara's Kevala-Advaita is only a
tribute to the murmurs echoing in the prairie-dog holes.

So, to make it easier for you, here is the traditional synopsis:

brahman is reality, the universe an appearance

the soul is brahman indeed, not other


Brahman is satyam, jñanam, anantam ... reality,

knowingness, endlessness.


Brahman, seen by an individual cognizer, is Ishvara,

the purshottama or supreme purusha.


Brahman realized as real, limitless, awareness is the one

who is realizing because we ain't nothin' but awareness.



---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote:

Thanks, Richard, it's wonderful.  In all versions! (-:



*From:* Richard J. Williams punditster@...
*To:* Richard J. Williams FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 25, 2013 1:02 PM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

On 9/25/2013 12:59 PM, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote:


Reformatted with Neo for easier reading:

This formatting is crap. Oh the hell with it!

LoL!



So, since Krishna is the Absolute, he is in fact 'indescribably
different', (Acyenta Bheda Bheda). At first this seems to be
non-sensical, but if you think about it, it makes more sense, and
if you remember what MMY said in CBG 1-6.

According to MMY, Lord Krishna is the 'Transcendental Person',
mentioned in Bhagavad Gita. That means that He is beyond, or
transcendental to, phenomenon - the relative world of change.

Many of the Vedantists who composed the Vedic literature were
dualists or qualified-dualists, and others were mixed dualists
and some were qualified-dualists. While all the Upanishadic
thinkers were transcendentalists, not all of them ascribed to the
Advaita philosophy, non-dualism.

In fact, there is good reason to doubt the Advaita of the Adi
Shankaracharya. Because many of these good fellows (sadhus) do
not ascribe to the illusion theory, 'maya' proposed by the Adi
which resembles Buddhist notions. According to Sri Aurobindo,
this Transcendental Person is not false - He is real, not an
illusion.

Isha Upanishad:

The face of Truth is covered with a brilliant
golden lid; that do thou remove O'Fosterer,
for the law of the Truth, for sight. - Isha v 2

The term 'Isha' refers to Ishvara, the cosmic person, Paramatman
or Brahman. Ishvara is the supreme controller.

Sri Aurobindo wrote that the Ultimate Reality is two fulls - 200%
of each. One who knows nescience side-by-side with the
transcendent, can pass repeated birth and death, and can enjoy
the full blessings of immortality.

Work cited:

'Isha Upanishad'
Translation by Sri Aurobindo
Sri Aurobindo Ashram Trust
Pondicherry, India 1914


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

So, since Krishna is the Absolute, he is in fact 'indescribably
different', (Acyenta
Bheda Bheda). At first this seems to be non-sensical, but if you
think
about it,
it makes more sense, and if you remember what MMY said in CBG 1-6.

According to MMY, Lord Krishna is the 'Transcendental Person',
mentioned in
Bhagavad Gita. That means that He is beyond, or transcendental to,
phenomenon
- the relative world of change.

Many of the Vedantists who composed the Vedic literature were
dualists or
qualified-dualists, and others were mixed dualists and some were
qualified-dualists. While all the Upanishadic thinkers were
transcendentalists,
not all of them ascribed to the Advaita philosophy, non-dualism.

In fact, there is good reason to doubt the Advaita of the Adi
Shankaracharya.
Because many of these good fellows (sadhus) do not ascribe to the
illusion
theory, 'maya' proposed

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[Richard J. Williams]

The three main schools of Vedanta philosophy are: Advaita (non-dualism), 
represented by the philosophy of Shankara; Visishtadvaita (qualified 
non-dualism), in the teachings of Ramanuja (c.1056-1137); and Dvaita 
(dualism), in the teachings of Madhva (c.1197-1276).


Maybe it's time to review the Six Orthodox Systems of Hindu Philosophy 
and the Heterodox Systems:


1. Vedanta
Sri-Vaishnavism Sri-Vaishnava sampradaaya [Vishisht Advaita Vedanta]
Tengalai (Southern; Tamil)
Bengalai (Northern; Sanskrit)
Madhva Vaishnavism Maadhva sampradaaya [Dvaita Vedanta]
Bengali Vaishnavism Gaudiya-Vaishnava sampradaaya [Bheda-bheda Vedanta]
Mahapurushiya Sect Assam
West Indian or Gujarati Vaishnavism Vallabha sampradaaya [Shuddh 
Advaita]

Smartism (Smarta Pantheism) Smaarta sampradaaya [Advaita Vedanta]

2. Yoga (enstatic introspection) [Dhyana]
3. Mimamsa (Vedist Ritualism)
4. Samkhya (Brahmanic Analytical Atheism)
5. Nyaya (Logical Theism)
6. Vaisheshika (Atomic Naturalism)

The Non-vedic Heterodox Systems:

1.Shaivism Shaiva Dharma [Shaiva Dharma] Dravidian Shaivism
Old Dravidian Shaivism (Adishaivism) [adisaivar]
Tamil Shaivism Shaiva Siddhanta [saiva siddhanta dharma]
Kannada Shaivism Lingayat Shaivism [virasaiva dharma]
Chandalla Shaivism (Dalits  Adivasis)

2. Gond Religion
3. Bhil Religion
4. Kol Shaivism (Kolarian Religions) kol shaivar
5. Munda Religion
6. Santal Religion
7. Kaul Shaktism

Sramanism (Sramanic Heterodoxies) nastika sramana dharam

1. Buddhism [bauddhas]
2. Jainism [jainas]
3. Carvaks
4. Shaktism [shaktas] Right-Handed (Daskhinachari) Left-Handed 
(Bamachari)

5. Kowls or Extreme Shaktas : cf. Kolarian Religion
6. Rajput Religion (Rajput Solar Religion) Saura Dharma
7. Tantrism (Tibetan Tantric Religions) Tantra Bon Kashmir Shaivism 
Lamaism


On 9/28/2013 3:59 PM, Bhairitu wrote:


Don't worry about  the intellectualizing  over the concept.  You know 
how it works once you experience it.  It's a very essential element of 
tantra.


On 09/28/2013 01:37 PM, emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote:


Wake up and try to get it right (rtam).

The term is achintya bheda-abheda and means unthinkable difference 
and non-difference.


It is the name that the follower of Chaitanya devised to
explain what he meant.

Your understanding of Shankara's Kevala-Advaita is only a
tribute to the murmurs echoing in the prairie-dog holes.

So, to make it easier for you, here is the traditional synopsis:

brahman is reality, the universe an appearance

the soul is brahman indeed, not other


Brahman is satyam, jñanam, anantam ... reality,

knowingness, endlessness.


Brahman, seen by an individual cognizer, is Ishvara,

the purshottama or supreme purusha.


Brahman realized as real, limitless, awareness is the one

who is realizing because we ain't nothin' but awareness.



---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote:

Thanks, Richard, it's wonderful.  In all versions! (-:



*From:* Richard J. Williams punditster@...
*To:* Richard J. Williams FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 25, 2013 1:02 PM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

On 9/25/2013 12:59 PM, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote:


Reformatted with Neo for easier reading:

This formatting is crap. Oh the hell with it!

LoL!



So, since Krishna is the Absolute, he is in fact 'indescribably
different', (Acyenta Bheda Bheda). At first this seems to be
non-sensical, but if you think about it, it makes more sense,
and if you remember what MMY said in CBG 1-6.

According to MMY, Lord Krishna is the 'Transcendental Person',
mentioned in Bhagavad Gita. That means that He is beyond, or
transcendental to, phenomenon - the relative world of change.

Many of the Vedantists who composed the Vedic literature were
dualists or qualified-dualists, and others were mixed dualists
and some were qualified-dualists. While all the Upanishadic
thinkers were transcendentalists, not all of them ascribed to
the Advaita philosophy, non-dualism.

In fact, there is good reason to doubt the Advaita of the Adi
Shankaracharya. Because many of these good fellows (sadhus) do
not ascribe to the illusion theory, 'maya' proposed by the Adi
which resembles Buddhist notions. According to Sri Aurobindo,
this Transcendental Person is not false - He is real, not an
illusion.

Isha Upanishad:

The face of Truth is covered with a brilliant
golden lid; that do thou remove O'Fosterer,
for the law of the Truth, for sight. - Isha v 2

The term 'Isha' refers to Ishvara, the cosmic person, Paramatman
or Brahman. Ishvara is the supreme controller.

Sri Aurobindo wrote that the Ultimate Reality is two fulls -
200% of each. One who knows nescience side-by-side with the
transcendent, can pass  repeated birth and death, and can enjoy
the full

[FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[emptybill]

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[Bhairitu]

Don't worry about  the intellectualizing  over the concept.  You know 
how it works once you experience it.  It's a very essential element of 
tantra.


On 09/28/2013 01:37 PM, emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote:


Wake up and try to get it right (rtam).

The term is achintya bheda-abheda and means unthinkable difference 
and non-difference.


It is the name that the follower of Chaitanya devised to
explain what he meant.

Your understanding of Shankara's Kevala-Advaita is only a
tribute to the murmurs echoing in the prairie-dog holes.

So, to make it easier for you, here is the traditional synopsis:

brahman is reality, the universe an appearance

the soul is brahman indeed, not other


Brahman is satyam, jñanam, anantam ... reality,

knowingness, endlessness.


Brahman, seen by an individual cognizer, is Ishvara,

the purshottama or supreme purusha.


Brahman realized as real, limitless, awareness is the one

who is realizing because we ain't nothin' but awareness.



---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote:

Thanks, Richard, it's wonderful.  In all versions! (-:



*From:* Richard J. Williams punditster@...
*To:* Richard J. Williams FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 25, 2013 1:02 PM
*Subject:* Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

On 9/25/2013 12:59 PM, punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote:


Reformatted with Neo for easier reading:

This formatting is crap. Oh the hell with it!

LoL!



So, since Krishna is the Absolute, he is in fact 'indescribably
different', (Acyenta Bheda Bheda). At first this seems to be
non-sensical, but if you think about it, it makes more sense, and
if you remember what MMY said in CBG 1-6.

According to MMY, Lord Krishna is the 'Transcendental Person',
mentioned in Bhagavad Gita. That means that He is beyond, or
transcendental to, phenomenon - the relative world of change.

Many of the Vedantists who composed the Vedic literature were
dualists or qualified-dualists, and others were mixed dualists
and some were qualified-dualists. While all the Upanishadic
thinkers were transcendentalists, not all of them ascribed to the
Advaita philosophy, non-dualism.

In fact, there is good reason to doubt the Advaita of the Adi
Shankaracharya. Because many of these good fellows (sadhus) do
not ascribe to the illusion theory, 'maya' proposed by the Adi
which resembles Buddhist notions. According to Sri Aurobindo,
this Transcendental Person is not false - He is real, not an
illusion.

Isha Upanishad:

The face of Truth is covered with a brilliant
golden lid; that do thou remove O'Fosterer,
for the law of the Truth, for sight. - Isha v 2

The term 'Isha' refers to Ishvara, the cosmic person, Paramatman
or Brahman. Ishvara is the supreme controller.

Sri Aurobindo wrote that the Ultimate Reality is two fulls - 200%
of each. One who knows nescience side-by-side with the
transcendent, can pass repeated birth and death, and can enjoy
the full blessings of immortality.

Work cited:

'Isha Upanishad'
Translation by Sri Aurobindo
Sri Aurobindo Ashram Trust
Pondicherry, India 1914


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:

So, since Krishna is the Absolute, he is in fact 'indescribably
different', (Acyenta
Bheda Bheda). At first this seems to be non-sensical, but if you
think
about it,
it makes more sense, and if you remember what MMY said in CBG 1-6.

According to MMY, Lord Krishna is the 'Transcendental Person',
mentioned in
Bhagavad Gita. That means that He is beyond, or transcendental to,
phenomenon
- the relative world of change.

Many of the Vedantists who composed the Vedic literature were
dualists or
qualified-dualists, and others were mixed dualists and some were
qualified-dualists. While all the Upanishadic thinkers were
transcendentalists,
not all of them ascribed to the Advaita philosophy, non-dualism.

In fact, there is good reason to doubt the Advaita of the Adi
Shankaracharya.
Because many of these good fellows (sadhus) do not ascribe to the
illusion
theory, 'maya' proposed by the Adi. According to Sri Aurobindo, this
Transcendental Person is not false - He is real, not an illusion.

Isha Upanishad:

The face of Truth is covered with a brilliant
golden lid; that do thou remove O'Fosterer,
for the law of the Truth, for sight. - Isha v 2

The term 'Isha' refers to Ishvara, the cosmic person, Paramatman or
Brahman.
Ishvara is the supreme controller.

Sri Aurobindo wrote that the Ultimate Reality is two fulls - 200% of
each. One
who knows nescience side-by-side

[FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[punditster]

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[Richard J. Williams]

On 9/25/2013 12:59 PM, pundits...@gmail.com wrote:


Reformatted with Neo for easier reading:


This formatting is crap. Oh the hell with it!

LoL!



So, since Krishna is the Absolute, he is in fact 'indescribably 
different', (Acyenta Bheda Bheda). At first this seems to be 
non-sensical, but if you think about it, it makes more sense, and if 
you remember what MMY said in CBG 1-6.


According to MMY, Lord Krishna is the 'Transcendental Person', 
mentioned in Bhagavad Gita. That means that He is beyond, or 
transcendental to, phenomenon - the relative world of change.


Many of the Vedantists who composed the Vedic literature were dualists 
or qualified-dualists, and others were mixed dualists and some were 
qualified-dualists. While all the Upanishadic thinkers were 
transcendentalists, not all of them ascribed to the Advaita 
philosophy, non-dualism.


In fact, there is good reason to doubt the Advaita of the Adi 
Shankaracharya. Because many of these good fellows (sadhus) do not 
ascribe to the illusion theory, 'maya' proposed by the Adi which 
resembles Buddhist notions. According to Sri Aurobindo, this 
Transcendental Person is not false - He is real, not an illusion.


Isha Upanishad:

The face of Truth is covered with a brilliant
golden lid; that do thou remove O'Fosterer,
for the law of the Truth, for sight. - Isha v 2

The term 'Isha' refers to Ishvara, the cosmic person, Paramatman or 
Brahman. Ishvara is the supreme controller.


Sri Aurobindo wrote that the Ultimate Reality is two fulls - 200% of 
each. One who knows nescience side-by-side with the transcendent, can 
pass  repeated birth and death, and can enjoy the full blessings of 
immortality.


Work cited:

'Isha Upanishad'
Translation by Sri Aurobindo
Sri Aurobindo Ashram Trust
Pondicherry, India 1914



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com 
wrote:


So, since Krishna is the Absolute, he is in fact 'indescribably
different', (Acyenta
Bheda Bheda). At first this seems to be non-sensical, but if you think
about it,
it makes more sense, and if you remember what MMY said in CBG 1-6.

According to MMY, Lord Krishna is the 'Transcendental Person', 
mentioned in

Bhagavad Gita. That means that He is beyond, or transcendental to,
phenomenon
- the relative world of change.

Many of the Vedantists who composed the Vedic literature were dualists or
qualified-dualists, and others were mixed dualists and some were
qualified-dualists. While all the Upanishadic thinkers were
transcendentalists,
not all of them ascribed to the Advaita philosophy, non-dualism.

In fact, there is good reason to doubt the Advaita of the Adi
Shankaracharya.
Because many of these good fellows (sadhus) do not ascribe to the illusion
theory, 'maya' proposed by the Adi. According to Sri Aurobindo, this
Transcendental Person is not false - He is real, not an illusion.

Isha Upanishad:

The face of Truth is covered with a brilliant
golden lid; that do thou remove O'Fosterer,
for the law of the Truth, for sight. - Isha v 2

The term 'Isha' refers to Ishvara, the cosmic person, Paramatman or
Brahman.
Ishvara is the supreme controller.

Sri Aurobindo wrote that the Ultimate Reality is two fulls - 200% of
each. One
who knows nescience side-by-side with the transcendent, can pass beyond
repeated birth and death, and can enjoy the full blessings of immortality.

Work cited:

'Isha Upanishad'
Translation by Sri Aurobindo
Sri Aurobindo Ashram Trust
Pondicherry, India 1914

Notes:

nescience

adjective

from Latin nescient, present participle of nescire not to know, from ne-
not + scire to know — more at no, science.

1. lack of knowledge or awareness
2. ignorance

Synonyms

benightedness, cluelessness, incognizance, innocence, ignorance,
obliviousness,
unawareness, unfamiliarity

Examples:

The appalling nescience of today's high schoolers concerning
international affairs.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nescience

Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person

[Share Long]

Thanks, Richard, it's wonderful.  In all versions! (-:





 From: Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com
To: Richard J. Williams FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Ishvara - The Transcendental Person
 


  
On 9/25/2013 12:59 PM, pundits...@gmail.com wrote:

  
Reformatted with Neo for easier reading:
This formatting is crap. Oh the hell with it!

LoL!




So, since Krishna is the Absolute, he is in fact 'indescribably different', 
(Acyenta Bheda Bheda). At first this seems to be non-sensical, but if you 
think about it, it makes more sense, and if you remember what MMY said in CBG 
1-6.

According to MMY, Lord Krishna is the 'Transcendental
  Person', mentioned in Bhagavad Gita. That means that He is
  beyond, or transcendental to, phenomenon - the relative
  world of change.

Many of the Vedantists who composed the Vedic literature
  were dualists or qualified-dualists, and others were mixed
  dualists and some were qualified-dualists. While all the
  Upanishadic thinkers were transcendentalists, not all of
  them ascribed to the Advaita philosophy, non-dualism.

In fact, there is good reason to doubt the Advaita of the
  Adi Shankaracharya. Because many of these good fellows
  (sadhus) do not ascribe to the illusion theory, 'maya'
  proposed by the Adi which resembles Buddhist notions.
  According to Sri Aurobindo, this Transcendental Person is
  not false - He is real, not an illusion.

Isha Upanishad:

The face of Truth is covered with a brilliant
golden lid; that do thou remove O'Fosterer,
for the law of the Truth, for sight. - Isha v 2

The term 'Isha' refers to Ishvara, the cosmic person,
  Paramatman or Brahman. Ishvara is the supreme controller.

Sri Aurobindo wrote that the Ultimate Reality is two fulls
  - 200% of each. One who knows nescience side-by-side with
  the transcendent, can pass  repeated birth and death, and
  can enjoy the full blessings of immortality.

Work cited:

'Isha Upanishad'
Translation by Sri Aurobindo
Sri Aurobindo Ashram Trust
Pondicherry, India 1914 



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote:


So, since Krishna is the Absolute, he is in fact 'indescribably 
different', (Acyenta
Bheda Bheda). At first this seems to be non-sensical,
but if you think 
about it,
it makes more sense, and if you remember what MMY said
in CBG 1-6.

According to MMY, Lord Krishna is the 'Transcendental
Person', mentioned in
Bhagavad Gita. That means that He is beyond, or
transcendental to, 
phenomenon
- the relative world of change.

Many of the Vedantists who composed the Vedic literature
were dualists or
qualified-dualists, and others were mixed dualists and
some were
qualified-dualists. While all the Upanishadic thinkers
were 
transcendentalists,
not all of them ascribed to the Advaita philosophy,
non-dualism.

In fact, there is good reason to doubt the Advaita of
the Adi 
Shankaracharya.
Because many of these good fellows (sadhus) do not
ascribe to the illusion
theory, 'maya' proposed by the Adi. According to Sri
Aurobindo, this
Transcendental Person is not false - He is real, not an
illusion.

Isha Upanishad:

The face of Truth is covered with a brilliant
golden lid; that do thou remove O'Fosterer,
for the law of the Truth, for sight. - Isha v 2

The term 'Isha' refers to Ishvara, the cosmic person,
Paramatman or 
Brahman.
Ishvara is the supreme controller.

Sri Aurobindo wrote that the Ultimate Reality is two
fulls - 200% of 
each. One
who knows nescience side-by-side with the transcendent,
can pass beyond
repeated birth and death, and can enjoy the full
blessings of immortality.

Work cited:

'Isha Upanishad'
Translation by Sri Aurobindo
Sri Aurobindo Ashram Trust
Pondicherry, India 1914

Notes:

nescience

adjective

from Latin nescient, present participle of nescire not
to know, from ne-
not + scire to know — more at no, science.

1. lack of knowledge or awareness
2. ignorance

Synonyms

benightedness, cluelessness, incognizance, innocence,
ignorance, 
obliviousness,
unawareness, unfamiliarity

Examples:

The appalling nescience of today's high schoolers
concerning 
international affairs.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nescience